9. Marco Vargas, 2B
Signed: International Signing Period, 2022 from Mexico (MIA)
Age 18.0 Height 6′ 0″ Weight 170 Bat / Thr L / R FV 40+
Tool Grades (Present/Future)
Hit Raw Power Game Power Run Fielding Throw
25/60 30/40 20/40 40/40 30/45 45
A converted catcher, Vargas was one of the better pure hitters in the 2022 DSL, walking more than he struck out and contacting pitches all over the zone. Heuristically, Vargas is in the FanGraphs wheelhouse as a compact, lefty-hitting infielder who might have special bat-to-ball ability. His hands are extremely quick and short to the ball, and Vargas’ swing has natural lift but isn’t especially long because he’s a short-levered hitter. There isn’t huge bat speed or physical projection here, so Vargas’ chances of becoming an impact player will need to come from him developing superlative bat-to-ball ability, but if his early-career performance is any indication, that outcome is in play for him. He played all over the infield in 2022 but spent most of his time at third base. He’ll likely end up playing a mix of 2B/3B and probably no shortstop over time. Because a special hit tool is the most important thing a prospect can have, Vargas is (by a wide margin) the teenage hitter in this org most likely to become a big league regular down the line.
24. Ronald Hernandez, C
Signed: International Signing Period, 2021 from Venezuela (MIA)
Age 19.6 Height 5′ 11″ Weight 175 Bat / Thr S / R FV 40
Tool Grades (Present/Future)
Hit Raw Power Game Power Run Fielding Throw
25/55 35/45 20/35 30/30 40/55 55
Hernandez is an advanced switch-hitting catcher with an above-average arm and exciting feel to hit. His frame is relatively mature, but Hernandez has enough else going on that even if he’s unlikely to grow into big power, he still might have an everyday catcher’s complement of skills. While he didn’t have the same surface-level statistical success on the complex in 2022 as he did in the DSL, Hernandez’s underlying bat-to-ball metrics were still very promising. He’s a solid long-term prospect at a premium position.
Robertson has to be one of the better relievers on the market. It’s July 27. Is this really a return the Mets couldn’t turn down? Couldn’t they have waited until Tuesday and gotten more?
They're the number 18 and 21 ranked prospects in the Marlins system
They’re going to suck next year too. I don’t understand why they made this trade tonight for only two decent prospects. Billy Eppler is complete garbage.
Vargas is 18 in rookie ball - guys in rookie ball arent rated or name
prospects unless they were crazy high draft picks or signees.
Vargas sounds sort of like the marlins version of Jett Williams - and his stat line is a similarly bonkers 2 walks:1 strikeout. The guys who watch this stuff a lot like him.
fangraphs (logenhagen) had him ranked 1 spot behind khalil watson in the marlins top 10 and watson was a big $ first round pick.
he's only 18 so anything can happen but this sounds like a high upside dice roll that's worth it.
Of making this trade now. I could understand it if a team was willing to give you its top prospect right now, but not this.
While it's true I'm not privy to how these talks go, it just seems reasonable to me to believe another team would have given more closer to the deadline.
RE: They're the number 18 and 21 ranked prospects in the Marlins system
Of making this trade now. I could understand it if a team was willing to give you its top prospect right now, but not this.
While it's true I'm not privy to how these talks go, it just seems reasonable to me to believe another team would have given more closer to the deadline.
Vargas isn’t supposed to make it to the majors until 2026 if he even makes it; the other prospect is 2027. How is this a trade you can’t turn down on July 27? I hate being a Mets fan.
you guys need to look at vargas' statline for an 18 year old
filling in for Diaz and a bright spot for the Mets in a lousy season but I don’t have any problem with this trade. He’s a free agent at the end of the season and likely wasn’t going to come back.
Vargas has potential and could turn into a great prospect and the catcher Hernandez is a lottery ticket. Not a bad return at all for a 38 year old reliever who’s a free agent at the end of the season.
filling in for Diaz and a bright spot for the Mets in a lousy season but I don’t have any problem with this trade. He’s a free agent at the end of the season and likely wasn’t going to come back.
Vargas has potential and could turn into a great prospect and the catcher Hernandez is a lottery ticket. Not a bad return at all for a 38 year old reliever who’s a free agent at the end of the season.
last year he got traded for a SP from PHI who was at the time 22 in A+ and a fringe top 10 in their system. also not on a ton of lists or that widely known but a fringe honorable mention type. Ben Brown has since moved up to a bunch of lists, started strong in AA but struggled somewhat in AAA.
that was the bar for another robertson trade and id rather get an 18 year old farther away with more upside than another coleman crow personally. i like the gamble on very young guy with an elite contact approach.
If you think selling off their best trade chip 5 days before the
for Robertson. I understand the wait until Aug 1 sentiment but perhaps the Mets felt that they should accept this deal before more arms become available and it swings to a buyers market. Other teams will read this as the Mets focusing on 2024 and beyond so I hope they can still get value if they move other pieces.
nothing is going to satisfy the fanbase the season was a failure
they are going to sell what they can and get what they can. they aren't getting some massive return like soto because they dont have anyone like that to trade so getting what they can is the best of their bad options.
trust me seidler would be killing them if this was anything but a solid return. that's his usual schtick. and lower level prospects is like the 1 area where he knows as much more than everyone else as he thinks he does.
Quote:
Jarrett Seidler
@jaseidler
every mainstream writer is referencing 6-8 month old prospect rankings to kill the return while every prospect writer who wrote them is going “holy shit they gave up Marco Vargas for a rental reliever????”
someone asked if he's immediately the mets top prospect and he doesn't really totally shoot it down.
Replying to @jeffpaternostro
Vargas?
No
@TNABLCHR
That means he’s immediately the top prospect on the team?
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
·
Yeah, had him ahead of their first round pick coming into the year and wanted him on the Midseason 50.
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
·
Guessing Jarrett won’t let me do this haha. But he’s actually kind of similar to Jett if you look under the hood for both good and ill.
RE: It appears we received a couple of good prospects
for Robertson. I understand the wait until Aug 1 sentiment but perhaps the Mets felt that they should accept this deal before more arms become available and it swings to a buyers market. Other teams will read this as the Mets focusing on 2024 and beyond so I hope they can still get value if they move other pieces.
i think getting a deal like this done a few days ahead of time sends a clear signal to all. considering a few hours ago robertson was warming up, they clearly had a price they communicated to the marlins and waited until it was met.
now we see what other moves they have in store.
Quote:
Mark Feinsand
@Feinsand
·
The Mets’ trade of David Robertson might be a sign they’re open for business. Is Justin Verlander on his way out of New York? There’s a growing belief that could happen.
I understand the wisdom of trading a 38 year old reliever on a one year contract for prospects...you all can debate whether the return was sufficient and I appreciate the information from those who follow minor leagues players/prospects.
Here's another angle.
I still have 8 games left on my 20 game package.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
but underwhelmed at the return. Looks kind of like a package Eppler would give up for Tyler Naquin. Robertson is probably the best reliever on the market. Would expect more, such as Vargas and a pitcher in the top 15 of the Marlins prospects.
RE: How fair is this to season ticket/partial season ticket holders?
I understand the wisdom of trading a 38 year old reliever on a one year contract for prospects...you all can debate whether the return was sufficient and I appreciate the information from those who follow minor leagues players/prospects.
Here's another angle.
I still have 8 games left on my 20 game package.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
I mean, it's unfortunate for those with tickets but are teams just not supposed to sell?
but underwhelmed at the return. Looks kind of like a package Eppler would give up for Tyler Naquin. Robertson is probably the best reliever on the market. Would expect more, such as Vargas and a pitcher in the top 15 of the Marlins prospects.
This is how I feel especially when you see how Ben Brown is in the Cubs system
but underwhelmed at the return. Looks kind of like a package Eppler would give up for Tyler Naquin. Robertson is probably the best reliever on the market. Would expect more, such as Vargas and a pitcher in the top 15 of the Marlins prospects.
I said the same thing to my friend in that it reminded me of the Naquin trade. When I first saw that we got two prospects I figured it was two pitchers. Surprised we didn't get one.
MyNameIsMyName - I understand this sentiment. I commented earlier that the deadline was a few days away and I am wondering if the Mets (whether they are correct or not) are anticipating the market to shift and possibly this offer would have been pulled as other arms would be available to buyers, as we get closer to August 1.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
danny this is a good point, as well. I never thought of that but I wouldn't be surprised if Cohen addresses this somehow. I can't think of a way an owner could address this but I am curious.
Overall, punting on a season with the payroll and goals does suck. Standing pat at the deadline could have been an option. I don't see how next year is any better. I am reading that Stearns prefers the Houston job over the Mets for POBO. Even if Stearns does come aboard, he may have his own vision of team building where he would want to rid the team of certain players to bring in his type of players. 2024 and possibly 2025 are going to be transition years.
I am thrilled that we have an owner with the resources we have but it does feel, today, that we took several steps back.
Be lying if I said I had even heard of Hernandez before this morning but both FG and pipeline think he has a shot to be a starting MLB C who can hit. I’m not going to worry about “they have Alvarez! They have Parada!” Get the best prospects and figure it out later
Like Vargas a lot. A whole lot. He’s in my top 5 Mets prospects pretty easily.
Yeah, he looks very interesting. Very (pleasantly) surprised you have him this high. I just would have preferred another pitcher in the Marlins top 15 than a catcher. They are loaded in pitching and seemed like a good opportunity to get one of theirs. Vargas looks to have some Jett like bat to ball skills and plate discipline. Doesn’t have the speed, but scouting reports have him as a good base runner
I'm very happy with Vargas as the main return in this trade. As the secondary prospect I do kind of wish we got someone a little further along preferably a pitcher but still seems like a nice piece.
Could be very good. His batted ball data in the CL was outstanding. I think he’s a 2B at the next level but this a kid who could hit for a high average, 15+ homer, and he’s considered a very high IQ player as well. Would I have loved a big time P prospect? Of course but really, really like Vargas and I think he’s a potential above average regular.
Think of it as the NFL draft chart. Someone offers you way more points in a trdade than you’d thought you would get. You wait for a better offer?
Then they pick up the entire salary, something you didn’t expect either.
And it’s early enough to send the message - blow us away and we are ready to sell. Phone blew up after this was announced!!
So yeah, absolute NO BRAINER. Don’t dismiss the money, that is massive.
Getting another catcher and infield prospect seems somewhat redundant.I was hoping that the Mets would trade for pitching prospects. The Marlins have a plethora of young pitchers. I am curious why they did not hold out for one of them.
Getting another catcher and infield prospect seems somewhat redundant.I was hoping that the Mets would trade for pitching prospects. The Marlins have a plethora of young pitchers. I am curious why they did not hold out for one of them.
You fill the system with the best players possible. There is no redundant in a minor league baseball system.
Your phone or the GM's phone (or... are they related... ;) )
Lol, I’m terrible with my phone, so I’d be the worst GM in history!!!
Couple of things that won’t get talked about. Locker room was like a funeral. They care, but all season they e had this we will turn it around soon attitude. They were stunned. Lights a fire? Too late? Let’s see who reacts and how.
Marlins scouts were stunned at this move. That, is a good sign ;)
Think of it this way. Everyone wanted them to sell, till the sold. Got a 2nd and 4th rounder. Who they’ve seen a TON first hand. And got data. On. You don’t get that from HSpicks. Didn’t have to pay them bonuses, instead save almost $6mm.
For a rental in a lost season. They may never see the majors,buts that’s a massive massive haul. Add message to roster and league, no brainer to pull that trigger last night.
Brooks Raley for Askew? Bassitt trade last year. Otherwise he has sucked.
How many has me made in total, like 10?
Someone asked for his good trades so I mentioned them. Did you skip over the part where I said he had sucked otherwise? No one is defending his overall tenure at this point but I can still be subjective enough to point out that from initial view he made a good trade here. I still hate him overall. ONce the deadline is finished let's see what other RP's get dealt and compare the returns at that point.
But trades are like draft picks. You can make some great ones, that just don’t work out.
You are going to make some good ones and bad ones.
“Trust the process” has become a meme, but it’s true. You just have to make sure you have the right process…
Brooks Raley for Askew? Bassitt trade last year. Otherwise he has sucked.
How many has me made in total, like 10?
Someone asked for his good trades so I mentioned them. Did you skip over the part where I said he had sucked otherwise? No one is defending his overall tenure at this point but I can still be subjective enough to point out that from initial view he made a good trade here. I still hate him overall. ONce the deadline is finished let's see what other RP's get dealt and compare the returns at that point.
Take a deep breath and relax. I was pointing out it's a small sample size. While obv we'd like better, it doesn't mean he's losing every trade
RE: How fair is this to season ticket/partial season ticket holders?
I understand the wisdom of trading a 38 year old reliever on a one year contract for prospects...you all can debate whether the return was sufficient and I appreciate the information from those who follow minor leagues players/prospects.
Here's another angle.
I still have 8 games left on my 20 game package.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
how great were the 12 games you already got? presumably their record was something like 5-7 or 6-6.
chances are you saw vogelbach do nothing at 7 or 8 times. do you want to see him and dj stewart in the next 8 or mauricio, vientos, baty, etc?
whatever moves they make this deadline it wouldnt shock me if their winning% postdeadline ends up higher than pre with the pressure off kind of like 2019.
Like Vargas a lot. A whole lot. He’s in my top 5 Mets prospects pretty easily.
I think if someone like Karson Milbrandt was the second piece instead people would feel better
I dont think anyone reacting strongly knows who Karson Milbrandt is and I dont think their reaction would change in the slightest at all.
Someone like Eder, yes people would have reacted differently, because he's been on lists and a known name. He was the first person I thought of because and dont get me wrong, for those same reasons I'd have been excited to get him. but i cant say whether or not that actually would have been better because he's 25 years old in AA and hardly pitched in a few years bc of tjs. An 18 year old position player with upside who already ranks in the system's top 5 seems like a pretty good return because there is a lot of unknown in a good way.
over this trade. Fair too many Mets fans, it’s damned if you do; damned if you don’t. The Mets brass’s stated goal was to rebuild the minor league system. You don’t do that by only trading for near-Major League prospects, you need to fill in the lower levels too.
Robertson has been a solid closer, but he’s 38 and going to be a FA. That’s going to limit the return in any trade. If the Mets pass on this trade and wait, maybe the return isn’t as good. Then we’d all be complaining about them passing on this trade.
Andy Martino
@martinonyc
·
Never know how an 18-year-old will turn out, but interesting note about Marco Vargas, the infielder acquired for David Robertson, is that Mets player development people have really liked him. This wasn't just scouts; Marlins play all the time on Mets' backfields.
since some of the guys who actually watch these guys have made this comp, this is vargas and jett (who is currently some people's #1 prospect in the system and unanimously top 5). Vargas is 1.5 years younger so he'll be 6 months younger if he gets to A ball next year.
here's a pretty simple reality, if Vargas continues his trend line whenever he gets to A ball he will probably be a top 100 prospect on all the lists. Jett's approach at the plate was his carrying tool, and a big reason why he got drafted in the first round and paid $4m last year. how 18 year olds develop is an unknown but there is a tangible reason to believe he could have an even better eye than Jett.
The best thing about this trade isn't even this trade. It's the next trade. "if you want verlander, it will take a prospect better than vargas". you might even be able to say that for quintana too since he's got the 2nd year of control whereas robertson was a pure rental. especially if the mets are also eating cash in a deal.
over this trade. Fair too many Mets fans, it’s damned if you do; damned if you don’t. The Mets brass’s stated goal was to rebuild the minor league system. You don’t do that by only trading for near-Major League prospects, you need to fill in the lower levels too.
Robertson has been a solid closer, but he’s 38 and going to be a FA. That’s going to limit the return in any trade. If the Mets pass on this trade and wait, maybe the return isn’t as good. Then we’d all be complaining about them passing on this trade.
agreed. and if they took some upper minors arms like they did when they traded addison reed or familia then there would be bitching that they got no upside.
nobody is trading a high upside upper minors player for a 38 year old closer unless there's some kind of serious defect.
You're not going to get a top mlb ready prospect for a 38 year old
over this trade. Fair too many Mets fans, it’s damned if you do; damned if you don’t. The Mets brass’s stated goal was to rebuild the minor league system. You don’t do that by only trading for near-Major League prospects, you need to fill in the lower levels too.
Robertson has been a solid closer, but he’s 38 and going to be a FA. That’s going to limit the return in any trade. If the Mets pass on this trade and wait, maybe the return isn’t as good. Then we’d all be complaining about them passing on this trade.
Robertson is a rental. His age does not matter other than he doesn’t need to fall apart for 3 months. He has been outstanding this year as a closer and will be the Marlins closer.
This is a really good return for a 38 year old rental reliever
If Vargas was draft eligible, I can't see him slipping past the second round. Good job by the Mets here. Have to think Cohen's new hires played a big part in this because this doens't seem like an Eppler type of move.
I'm not sure if "selling" is the right move given still 15-20% shot at the playoffs, but that's probably just my heart speaking. If they are going to sell, then getting guys this like this into the system makes it easier for me to accept.
RE: This is a really good return for a 38 year old rental reliever
If Vargas was draft eligible, I can't see him slipping past the second round. Good job by the Mets here. Have to think Cohen's new hires played a big part in this because this doens't seem like an Eppler type of move.
I'm not sure if "selling" is the right move given still 15-20% shot at the playoffs, but that's probably just my heart speaking. If they are going to sell, then getting guys this like this into the system makes it easier for me to accept.
pretty elite bat to ball skills/batting eye, but every other tool projected as below ML average. Fangraphs has everything at 40-45, with hitting tool projected at 60. Other scouting reports say 2B is by far best position. Eppler touting him at SS.
pretty elite bat to ball skills/batting eye, but every other tool projected as below ML average. Fangraphs has everything at 40-45, with hitting tool projected at 60. Other scouting reports say 2B is by far best position. Eppler touting him at SS.
not complaining about it but did they buy a bulk order of SS gloves at costco or something?
RE: RE: Vargas almost seems like almost a Luis Arraez type
pretty elite bat to ball skills/batting eye, but every other tool projected as below ML average. Fangraphs has everything at 40-45, with hitting tool projected at 60. Other scouting reports say 2B is by far best position. Eppler touting him at SS.
not complaining about it but did they buy a bulk order of SS gloves at costco or something?
People who are SS at lower levels tend to have the most versatility to move at higher levels as it is usually your best athlete
But why not…
Everyone knows the Mets got two prospects in this deal, right?
And apparently, gave up no cash.
That is shocking to me. Not being critical of it. But between Cohen indicating he was willing to pick up money and the Marlins being notoriously cheap, I would have put money on the Mets covering at least a decent portion of his salary
I see fans on Twitter (ok, "X") losing their minds, I hear the WFAN hosts losing their minds, but they probably weren't going to get a lot for Robertson. (Or, maybe this IS a lot, but these guys are undervalued and hard to gauge because they're young and in rookie ball.)
Robertson is good but he's not a lights-out closer like Edwin Diaz. He's old, and he's a rental. For the Mets, a closer is a little bit of a luxury for a losing team; if they don't have a lead late, there's nothing to close.
They shed some payroll, which matters more than we like to think. Cohen can afford it but being so far over the luxury tax threshold cost them 12 spots on the draft. And, as Cohen said, this kind of payroll is not sustainable. It makes sense for a World Series run. That's not happening.
They also drafted a boatload of pitchers and were thin on position-player prospects at the lowest levels, so this trade adds some young guys with upside — but their development isn't assured.
By contrast, Verlander is under contract and pitching very well. If he's traded for prospects, I'd want to get back AA or AAA prospects who are close to ready, preferably young arms or outfielders.
(They never should have traded PCA. THAT trade was bad.)
MyNameIsMyName - I understand this sentiment. I commented earlier that the deadline was a few days away and I am wondering if the Mets (whether they are correct or not) are anticipating the market to shift and possibly this offer would have been pulled as other arms would be available to buyers, as we get closer to August 1.
In comment 16159550 dannysection 313 said:
Quote:
I still have 8 games left on my 20 game package.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
danny this is a good point, as well. I never thought of that but I wouldn't be surprised if Cohen addresses this somehow. I can't think of a way an owner could address this but I am curious.
Overall, punting on a season with the payroll and goals does suck. Standing pat at the deadline could have been an option. I don't see how next year is any better. I am reading that Stearns prefers the Houston job over the Mets for POBO. Even if Stearns does come aboard, he may have his own vision of team building where he would want to rid the team of certain players to bring in his type of players. 2024 and possibly 2025 are going to be transition years.
I am thrilled that we have an owner with the resources we have but it does feel, today, that we took several steps back.
When you purchase season tix/partial season tix there is always the possibility the team will stink (didn't imagine that would be the case this year) and you just have to ride it out for the last part of the year.
I had season tix for the Giants for 20 season (mostly the Eli/Coughlin era) and there were some December games no one wanted to go to.
But baseball is the one sport where there is a real sell off with as much as 1/3 of the season left.
Buyer beware; I get it and the rationale for selling, especially end of contract players, for a better future.
I'm not waiting for Steve Cohen to throw STH a bone, believe me.
I had a Saturday package in 85-88. IIRC there's a "contract" on the back of the ticket, which says you get to see a "championship game," meaning not an exhibition, but a game that counts in the standings. That's what we paid for. They win, they lose, they're good, they're bad... They didn't promise anything more than a real game.
It would be nice of Cohen to do some kind of a make-good but they don't actually owe the season ticket holders anything.
The real make-good, hopefully, would be years of sustained success fueled by these young guys they are drafting and trading for. I know we fans don't like to "Trust the Process" but in this case I think it's fair.
They'll bring in Stearns over Eppler, things will get better. They tried to do it fast, they face-planted. Now they're going to build from the ground up. Good.
Anyone who says this is a good trade or bad trade is just trying to push the narrative either way. The kid is 18 years old with almost zero professional experience. It would be a flat out guess as to whether or not he's going to be any good.
Just get talented guys in the system and see who makes it. That's basically what Eppler needs to do with this deadline.
RE: RE: I don’t understand all of the handwringing
over this trade. Fair too many Mets fans, it’s damned if you do; damned if you don’t. The Mets brass’s stated goal was to rebuild the minor league system. You don’t do that by only trading for near-Major League prospects, you need to fill in the lower levels too.
Robertson has been a solid closer, but he’s 38 and going to be a FA. That’s going to limit the return in any trade. If the Mets pass on this trade and wait, maybe the return isn’t as good. Then we’d all be complaining about them passing on this trade.
Robertson is a rental. His age does not matter other than he doesn’t need to fall apart for 3 months. He has been outstanding this year as a closer and will be the Marlins closer.
Yes, Robertson is a rental, and that fact alone limits the return. I think the Mets did pretty well.
I mean if it's a huge return you have to do it but who the heck will be pitching in the rotation next year?
I could live with:
Shohei
Max
Urias
Senga
Qutinana (or Peterson if they can get a good return for Quintana)
If they're getting rid of Verlander then they should get rid of Max as well. No reason to keep him at that point. I don't see Ohtani coming. Urias we'd have to be the front runner but I am concerned with the year he's having and the money he will command. Peterson yuck.
fall flat on they’re face early and no signs of recovery.
The fishing is over; wise to cut bait.
They should fire sale whoever they can and move onward.
But if you can dump Max and/or Verlander purely as a salary dump and get half a dozen donuts in return, you do it in a heartbeat.
The Mets don't need to do a salary dump, per se, but there's no point in having a payroll this big when the team isn't in contention. Trading Verlander for another pricey veteran wouldn't make sense. Trading him for cheap, young talent that's under team control for years to come does make sense.
The high payroll dinged the Mets' draft position, and that turned out to be for nothing.
Mets pay some of it - but might get a decent prospect return too.
Rangers won't go anywhere if they don't add another pitcher. DeGrom is out until literally end of next season.
Would be hysterical if Kumar Rocker became a secondary piece in the trade - although if i were Mets, would be uninterested, I don't see how he comes back from his injury at this point.
isn't a ridiculous high risk/high reward ask - he's kind of slumped a bit and fallen down. Right now they have couple other pitching prospects generally with brighter star on them than him.
If they're getting rid of Verlander then they should get rid of Max as well. No reason to keep him at that point. I don't see Ohtani coming. Urias we'd have to be the front runner but I am concerned with the year he's having and the money he will command. Peterson yuck.
Max has the ntc and i'd imagine a weaker market since he hasnt pitched as well so i assumed he's tougher to move for a good return.
re Urias/Ohtani i havent too seriously looked at next year's FA list but obviously we know Cohen is likely to be a serious player for whoever they want. i know giolito is another one. i assume they'll have at least 2 accomplished SP under contract and probably be shopping for at least 2 more.
If they're getting rid of Verlander then they should get rid of Max as well. No reason to keep him at that point. I don't see Ohtani coming. Urias we'd have to be the front runner but I am concerned with the year he's having and the money he will command. Peterson yuck.
Max has the ntc and i'd imagine a weaker market since he hasnt pitched as well so i assumed he's tougher to move for a good return.
re Urias/Ohtani i havent too seriously looked at next year's FA list but obviously we know Cohen is likely to be a serious player for whoever they want. i know giolito is another one. i assume they'll have at least 2 accomplished SP under contract and probably be shopping for at least 2 more.
I'm not as sure about that. I think this year is probably going to result in a shift in organizational approach. I think it's the end of "win now" and they'll be looking more at "sustained success," which means putting resources into farm system/player development, not paying top dollar for veterans who aren't going to be around when the team really takes off.
Exception: Veteran leadership. Boy, does the team need that.
Thursday's David Robertson deal kicks off what could be a very busy few days for the Mets.
With Thursday night’s trade of David Robertson to the Miami Marlins, the Mets front office knew that it conceded the 2023 Wild Card race in favor of seizing an opportunity to bolster the farm system.
The next few days until the Aug. 1 trade deadline will bring several more deals. Of that, there is no doubt. “It’s going to be busy,” said one source with knowledge of the Mets’ thinking.
Here’s the latest, as of midday Friday:
-- Justin Verlander is generating moderate interest, but it is far from certain that he will be moved. The Mets are willing to talk about Verlander when other teams ask, but have not yet come close to asking the veteran to waive his no-trade clause. The team values what Verlander could contribute in 2024, and believe Verlander and his family to be happy in New York.
As MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand reported, a reunion with Houston is one possibility for Verlander. The Angels are also looking for more starting pitching, and have been scouting the Mets, as have the Reds and other clubs.
-- As of Friday, Max Scherzer is less likely to move. The reason is simple: Clubs scouting him have been less than impressed with the quality of his stuff.
-- Mark Canha and Tommy Pham are generating interest, and are likely to be traded.
On a related note, and as SNY reported Wednesday, the Yankees are looking for a right-handed hitting left fielder to pair with Jake Bauers and Billy McKinney. The Mets and Yankees have an ongoing dialogue -- Brian Cashman is Billy Eppler’s mentor -- and discussed a Robertson trade this week.
-- Catcher Omar Narvaez is very available. So is Brooks Raley, but the team holds an option on him for next year, so would need a larger return.
Mets recall Reed Garrett to take Robertson's spot. Why him over Josh Walker or Nate Lavender?
Lavender would needed to be added to the 40 man whereas Garrett does not. As far as him versus Walker, perhaps they want him to get more frequent pitching at AAA versus being the last guy out of the bullpen with the Mets.
Mets recall Reed Garrett to take Robertson's spot. Why him over Josh Walker or Nate Lavender?
My guess is Garrett is on a short leash. Older and looks like a AAAA pitcher, but doing well in AAA. Probably giving him a few appearances at the MLB level. If he stinks it up as he has in the past option/DFA him.
if they trade Canha and Pham while Marte is injured, they need to find two outfielders.
Mauricio is the obvious call-up but he's supposed to be bad in the outfield. Baty played a little there but I'd be shocked if they put him out there every day, especially since they see him as the third baseman of the future. Vientos is barely a first baseman, he's bad at third, I can't see him moving out to LF. Luke Voit is at Syracuse; he's not going to play LF in Queens. So... who? They're not trading Canha or Pham for similar players; it has to be prospects. If they don't pick up some outfielders, and they're going to start Stewart and call up Tim Locastro, it's gonna be mighty ugly.
RE: That SNY article is kind of encouraging, except
if they trade Canha and Pham while Marte is injured, they need to find two outfielders.
Mauricio is the obvious call-up but he's supposed to be bad in the outfield. Baty played a little there but I'd be shocked if they put him out there every day, especially since they see him as the third baseman of the future. Vientos is barely a first baseman, he's bad at third, I can't see him moving out to LF. Luke Voit is at Syracuse; he's not going to play LF in Queens. So... who? They're not trading Canha or Pham for similar players; it has to be prospects. If they don't pick up some outfielders, and they're going to start Stewart and call up Tim Locastro, it's gonna be mighty ugly.
They would play McNeil in a corner OF spot and start Mendick at 2B (although I would play Mauricio there) and/or D.J. Stewart
RE: That SNY article is kind of encouraging, except
if they trade Canha and Pham while Marte is injured, they need to find two outfielders.
Mauricio is the obvious call-up but he's supposed to be bad in the outfield. Baty played a little there but I'd be shocked if they put him out there every day, especially since they see him as the third baseman of the future. Vientos is barely a first baseman, he's bad at third, I can't see him moving out to LF. Luke Voit is at Syracuse; he's not going to play LF in Queens. So... who? They're not trading Canha or Pham for similar players; it has to be prospects. If they don't pick up some outfielders, and they're going to start Stewart and call up Tim Locastro, it's gonna be mighty ugly.
If you’re trading your closer with this bullpen you’re kind of past the part of caring if it gets ugly. Locastro is on the DL. It will be Stewart/McNeil/Nimmo until Marte is back. Call up a Cedrola, Cortes, or Almonte. Whatever. When you decide to sell, winning is secondary
If KiKe and Rosario wasn’t enough….Lynn and Joe Kelly from the White Sox now.
Ohtani isn't available - that will be an offseason play. There's no big fish at starter or as bat - gonna see a lot of last minute moves next two days. They have enough pitching up front, but adding depth is the standard play for a team - load up the bench/bullpen/swing starter type to eat up innings late in year. Dodgers have a system where they actually need to shed some of their huge system depth, they're just going to lose them in the offseason Rule V/ drafts or not tendering.
the mets longer summary after the trade deadline? needless to say i have thoughts and it looks like they are in the midst of a pivot worthy of some guarded optimism.
RE: sort of random but do any of you have any interest in a state of
the mets longer summary after the trade deadline? needless to say i have thoughts and it looks like they are in the midst of a pivot worthy of some guarded optimism.
I would read and enjoy it.
RE: RE: sort of random but do any of you have any interest in a state of
the mets longer summary after the trade deadline? needless to say i have thoughts and it looks like they are in the midst of a pivot worthy of some guarded optimism.
@Ken_Rosenthal
BREAKING: Mets trading David Robertson to the Marlins, sources tell
@TheAthletic
@Ken_Rosenthal
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Mets getting two minor-league position players from Marlins for David Robertson, sources tell me and
@WillSammon
.
Signed: International Signing Period, 2022 from Mexico (MIA)
Age 18.0 Height 6′ 0″ Weight 170 Bat / Thr L / R FV 40+
Tool Grades (Present/Future)
Hit Raw Power Game Power Run Fielding Throw
25/60 30/40 20/40 40/40 30/45 45
A converted catcher, Vargas was one of the better pure hitters in the 2022 DSL, walking more than he struck out and contacting pitches all over the zone. Heuristically, Vargas is in the FanGraphs wheelhouse as a compact, lefty-hitting infielder who might have special bat-to-ball ability. His hands are extremely quick and short to the ball, and Vargas’ swing has natural lift but isn’t especially long because he’s a short-levered hitter. There isn’t huge bat speed or physical projection here, so Vargas’ chances of becoming an impact player will need to come from him developing superlative bat-to-ball ability, but if his early-career performance is any indication, that outcome is in play for him. He played all over the infield in 2022 but spent most of his time at third base. He’ll likely end up playing a mix of 2B/3B and probably no shortstop over time. Because a special hit tool is the most important thing a prospect can have, Vargas is (by a wide margin) the teenage hitter in this org most likely to become a big league regular down the line.
24. Ronald Hernandez, C
Signed: International Signing Period, 2021 from Venezuela (MIA)
Age 19.6 Height 5′ 11″ Weight 175 Bat / Thr S / R FV 40
Tool Grades (Present/Future)
Hit Raw Power Game Power Run Fielding Throw
25/55 35/45 20/35 30/30 40/55 55
Hernandez is an advanced switch-hitting catcher with an above-average arm and exciting feel to hit. His frame is relatively mature, but Hernandez has enough else going on that even if he’s unlikely to grow into big power, he still might have an everyday catcher’s complement of skills. While he didn’t have the same surface-level statistical success on the complex in 2022 as he did in the DSL, Hernandez’s underlying bat-to-ball metrics were still very promising. He’s a solid long-term prospect at a premium position.
@jaseidler
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They got the one position prospect worth making this trade for
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
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2m
Okay they got the good one at least
Vargas sounds sort of like the marlins version of Jett Williams - and his stat line is a similarly bonkers 2 walks:1 strikeout. The guys who watch this stuff a lot like him.
fangraphs (logenhagen) had him ranked 1 spot behind khalil watson in the marlins top 10 and watson was a big $ first round pick.
he's only 18 so anything can happen but this sounds like a high upside dice roll that's worth it.
While it's true I'm not privy to how these talks go, it just seems reasonable to me to believe another team would have given more closer to the deadline.
he's top 10 on fangraphs and baseball prospectus. he's 18 and in rookie ball and that's the type that's not going to be on every radar.
While it's true I'm not privy to how these talks go, it just seems reasonable to me to believe another team would have given more closer to the deadline.
Vargas isn’t supposed to make it to the majors until 2026 if he even makes it; the other prospect is 2027. How is this a trade you can’t turn down on July 27? I hate being a Mets fan.
@marlinsminors
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This is a huge return for the Mets.
Marco Vargas is one of the furthest advanced 18 year olds I’ve seen. Ronald Hernandez is ready for A/A+ right now.
Wish those kids the best of luck in New York.
#Marlins
he has a 23.5% walk rate and a 13% k-rate.
jett has a 10% walk rate and a 21% k-rate.
vargas is 1.5 years younger than jett and 1 level lower.
2:1 walks to strikeouts for an 18 year old is insane. he is hitting .283 with a .457 obp.
Vargas has potential and could turn into a great prospect and the catcher Hernandez is a lottery ticket. Not a bad return at all for a 38 year old reliever who’s a free agent at the end of the season.
Vargas has potential and could turn into a great prospect and the catcher Hernandez is a lottery ticket. Not a bad return at all for a 38 year old reliever who’s a free agent at the end of the season.
last year he got traded for a SP from PHI who was at the time 22 in A+ and a fringe top 10 in their system. also not on a ton of lists or that widely known but a fringe honorable mention type. Ben Brown has since moved up to a bunch of lists, started strong in AA but struggled somewhat in AAA.
that was the bar for another robertson trade and id rather get an 18 year old farther away with more upside than another coleman crow personally. i like the gamble on very young guy with an elite contact approach.
trust me seidler would be killing them if this was anything but a solid return. that's his usual schtick. and lower level prospects is like the 1 area where he knows as much more than everyone else as he thinks he does.
@jaseidler
every mainstream writer is referencing 6-8 month old prospect rankings to kill the return while every prospect writer who wrote them is going “holy shit they gave up Marco Vargas for a rental reliever????”
Replying to @jeffpaternostro
Vargas?
No
@TNABLCHR
That means he’s immediately the top prospect on the team?
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
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Yeah, had him ahead of their first round pick coming into the year and wanted him on the Midseason 50.
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
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Guessing Jarrett won’t let me do this haha. But he’s actually kind of similar to Jett if you look under the hood for both good and ill.
i think getting a deal like this done a few days ahead of time sends a clear signal to all. considering a few hours ago robertson was warming up, they clearly had a price they communicated to the marlins and waited until it was met.
now we see what other moves they have in store.
@Feinsand
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The Mets’ trade of David Robertson might be a sign they’re open for business. Is Justin Verlander on his way out of New York? There’s a growing belief that could happen.
@Darnell66007543
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Replying to @jeffpaternostro
Where does Vargas fit within our system now? Top 15?
Jeffrey Paternostro
@jeffpaternostro
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Conservatively he’s in the Jett, Mauricio, Houck, Vasil group
Here's another angle.
I still have 8 games left on my 20 game package.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
Here's another angle.
I still have 8 games left on my 20 game package.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
I mean, it's unfortunate for those with tickets but are teams just not supposed to sell?
This is how I feel especially when you see how Ben Brown is in the Cubs system
I said the same thing to my friend in that it reminded me of the Naquin trade. When I first saw that we got two prospects I figured it was two pitchers. Surprised we didn't get one.
MyNameIsMyName - I understand this sentiment. I commented earlier that the deadline was a few days away and I am wondering if the Mets (whether they are correct or not) are anticipating the market to shift and possibly this offer would have been pulled as other arms would be available to buyers, as we get closer to August 1.
In comment 16159550 dannysection 313 said:
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
danny this is a good point, as well. I never thought of that but I wouldn't be surprised if Cohen addresses this somehow. I can't think of a way an owner could address this but I am curious.
Overall, punting on a season with the payroll and goals does suck. Standing pat at the deadline could have been an option. I don't see how next year is any better. I am reading that Stearns prefers the Houston job over the Mets for POBO. Even if Stearns does come aboard, he may have his own vision of team building where he would want to rid the team of certain players to bring in his type of players. 2024 and possibly 2025 are going to be transition years.
I am thrilled that we have an owner with the resources we have but it does feel, today, that we took several steps back.
I think if someone like Karson Milbrandt was the second piece instead people would feel better
Yeah, he looks very interesting. Very (pleasantly) surprised you have him this high. I just would have preferred another pitcher in the Marlins top 15 than a catcher. They are loaded in pitching and seemed like a good opportunity to get one of theirs. Vargas looks to have some Jett like bat to ball skills and plate discipline. Doesn’t have the speed, but scouting reports have him as a good base runner
Then they pick up the entire salary, something you didn’t expect either.
And it’s early enough to send the message - blow us away and we are ready to sell. Phone blew up after this was announced!!
So yeah, absolute NO BRAINER. Don’t dismiss the money, that is massive.
Your phone or the GM's phone (or... are they related... ;) )
You fill the system with the best players possible. There is no redundant in a minor league baseball system.
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Phone blew up after this was announced!!
Your phone or the GM's phone (or... are they related... ;) )
Lol, I’m terrible with my phone, so I’d be the worst GM in history!!!
Couple of things that won’t get talked about. Locker room was like a funeral. They care, but all season they e had this we will turn it around soon attitude. They were stunned. Lights a fire? Too late? Let’s see who reacts and how.
Marlins scouts were stunned at this move. That, is a good sign ;)
Think of it this way. Everyone wanted them to sell, till the sold. Got a 2nd and 4th rounder. Who they’ve seen a TON first hand. And got data. On. You don’t get that from HSpicks. Didn’t have to pay them bonuses, instead save almost $6mm.
For a rental in a lost season. They may never see the majors,buts that’s a massive massive haul. Add message to roster and league, no brainer to pull that trigger last night.
Brooks Raley for Askew? Bassitt trade last year. Otherwise he has sucked.
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I'm waiting....
Brooks Raley for Askew? Bassitt trade last year. Otherwise he has sucked.
How many has me made in total, like 10?
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In comment 16159632 Gmanfandan said:
Quote:
I'm waiting....
Brooks Raley for Askew? Bassitt trade last year. Otherwise he has sucked.
How many has me made in total, like 10?
Someone asked for his good trades so I mentioned them. Did you skip over the part where I said he had sucked otherwise? No one is defending his overall tenure at this point but I can still be subjective enough to point out that from initial view he made a good trade here. I still hate him overall. ONce the deadline is finished let's see what other RP's get dealt and compare the returns at that point.
You are going to make some good ones and bad ones.
“Trust the process” has become a meme, but it’s true. You just have to make sure you have the right process…
If Marlins scouts are bothered by this trade then that's a good indicator it was a win for Eppler (no matter how much you hate him)
time will tell.
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In comment 16159636 GF1080 said:
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In comment 16159632 Gmanfandan said:
Quote:
I'm waiting....
Brooks Raley for Askew? Bassitt trade last year. Otherwise he has sucked.
How many has me made in total, like 10?
Someone asked for his good trades so I mentioned them. Did you skip over the part where I said he had sucked otherwise? No one is defending his overall tenure at this point but I can still be subjective enough to point out that from initial view he made a good trade here. I still hate him overall. ONce the deadline is finished let's see what other RP's get dealt and compare the returns at that point.
Take a deep breath and relax. I was pointing out it's a small sample size. While obv we'd like better, it doesn't mean he's losing every trade
Here's another angle.
I still have 8 games left on my 20 game package.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
how great were the 12 games you already got? presumably their record was something like 5-7 or 6-6.
chances are you saw vogelbach do nothing at 7 or 8 times. do you want to see him and dj stewart in the next 8 or mauricio, vientos, baty, etc?
whatever moves they make this deadline it wouldnt shock me if their winning% postdeadline ends up higher than pre with the pressure off kind of like 2019.
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Like Vargas a lot. A whole lot. He’s in my top 5 Mets prospects pretty easily.
I think if someone like Karson Milbrandt was the second piece instead people would feel better
I dont think anyone reacting strongly knows who Karson Milbrandt is and I dont think their reaction would change in the slightest at all.
Someone like Eder, yes people would have reacted differently, because he's been on lists and a known name. He was the first person I thought of because and dont get me wrong, for those same reasons I'd have been excited to get him. but i cant say whether or not that actually would have been better because he's 25 years old in AA and hardly pitched in a few years bc of tjs. An 18 year old position player with upside who already ranks in the system's top 5 seems like a pretty good return because there is a lot of unknown in a good way.
Robertson has been a solid closer, but he’s 38 and going to be a FA. That’s going to limit the return in any trade. If the Mets pass on this trade and wait, maybe the return isn’t as good. Then we’d all be complaining about them passing on this trade.
@martinonyc
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Never know how an 18-year-old will turn out, but interesting note about Marco Vargas, the infielder acquired for David Robertson, is that Mets player development people have really liked him. This wasn't just scouts; Marlins play all the time on Mets' backfields.
since some of the guys who actually watch these guys have made this comp, this is vargas and jett (who is currently some people's #1 prospect in the system and unanimously top 5). Vargas is 1.5 years younger so he'll be 6 months younger if he gets to A ball next year.
here's a pretty simple reality, if Vargas continues his trend line whenever he gets to A ball he will probably be a top 100 prospect on all the lists. Jett's approach at the plate was his carrying tool, and a big reason why he got drafted in the first round and paid $4m last year. how 18 year olds develop is an unknown but there is a tangible reason to believe he could have an even better eye than Jett.
The best thing about this trade isn't even this trade. It's the next trade. "if you want verlander, it will take a prospect better than vargas". you might even be able to say that for quintana too since he's got the 2nd year of control whereas robertson was a pure rental. especially if the mets are also eating cash in a deal.
Robertson has been a solid closer, but he’s 38 and going to be a FA. That’s going to limit the return in any trade. If the Mets pass on this trade and wait, maybe the return isn’t as good. Then we’d all be complaining about them passing on this trade.
agreed. and if they took some upper minors arms like they did when they traded addison reed or familia then there would be bitching that they got no upside.
nobody is trading a high upside upper minors player for a 38 year old closer unless there's some kind of serious defect.
Robertson has been a solid closer, but he’s 38 and going to be a FA. That’s going to limit the return in any trade. If the Mets pass on this trade and wait, maybe the return isn’t as good. Then we’d all be complaining about them passing on this trade.
Robertson is a rental. His age does not matter other than he doesn’t need to fall apart for 3 months. He has been outstanding this year as a closer and will be the Marlins closer.
I'm not sure if "selling" is the right move given still 15-20% shot at the playoffs, but that's probably just my heart speaking. If they are going to sell, then getting guys this like this into the system makes it easier for me to accept.
I'm not sure if "selling" is the right move given still 15-20% shot at the playoffs, but that's probably just my heart speaking. If they are going to sell, then getting guys this like this into the system makes it easier for me to accept.
Selling is undoubtedly the right move.
@FCLMets
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They’re here!
Welcome Marco Vargas and Ronald Hernandez to the Mets 💪
Everyone knows the Mets got two prospects in this deal, right?
And apparently, gave up no cash.
not complaining about it but did they buy a bulk order of SS gloves at costco or something?
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pretty elite bat to ball skills/batting eye, but every other tool projected as below ML average. Fangraphs has everything at 40-45, with hitting tool projected at 60. Other scouting reports say 2B is by far best position. Eppler touting him at SS.
not complaining about it but did they buy a bulk order of SS gloves at costco or something?
People who are SS at lower levels tend to have the most versatility to move at higher levels as it is usually your best athlete
Everyone knows the Mets got two prospects in this deal, right?
And apparently, gave up no cash.
That is shocking to me. Not being critical of it. But between Cohen indicating he was willing to pick up money and the Marlins being notoriously cheap, I would have put money on the Mets covering at least a decent portion of his salary
Robertson is good but he's not a lights-out closer like Edwin Diaz. He's old, and he's a rental. For the Mets, a closer is a little bit of a luxury for a losing team; if they don't have a lead late, there's nothing to close.
They shed some payroll, which matters more than we like to think. Cohen can afford it but being so far over the luxury tax threshold cost them 12 spots on the draft. And, as Cohen said, this kind of payroll is not sustainable. It makes sense for a World Series run. That's not happening.
They also drafted a boatload of pitchers and were thin on position-player prospects at the lowest levels, so this trade adds some young guys with upside — but their development isn't assured.
By contrast, Verlander is under contract and pitching very well. If he's traded for prospects, I'd want to get back AA or AAA prospects who are close to ready, preferably young arms or outfielders.
(They never should have traded PCA. THAT trade was bad.)
I mean if it's a huge return you have to do it but who the heck will be pitching in the rotation next year?
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This is the best offer we could’ve gotten for him
MyNameIsMyName - I understand this sentiment. I commented earlier that the deadline was a few days away and I am wondering if the Mets (whether they are correct or not) are anticipating the market to shift and possibly this offer would have been pulled as other arms would be available to buyers, as we get closer to August 1.
In comment 16159550 dannysection 313 said:
Quote:
I still have 8 games left on my 20 game package.
Do I get a rebate from the Mets for games I bought tickets for, in good faith, after they've thrown in the towel on the season?
This season sucks...
danny this is a good point, as well. I never thought of that but I wouldn't be surprised if Cohen addresses this somehow. I can't think of a way an owner could address this but I am curious.
Overall, punting on a season with the payroll and goals does suck. Standing pat at the deadline could have been an option. I don't see how next year is any better. I am reading that Stearns prefers the Houston job over the Mets for POBO. Even if Stearns does come aboard, he may have his own vision of team building where he would want to rid the team of certain players to bring in his type of players. 2024 and possibly 2025 are going to be transition years.
I am thrilled that we have an owner with the resources we have but it does feel, today, that we took several steps back.
When you purchase season tix/partial season tix there is always the possibility the team will stink (didn't imagine that would be the case this year) and you just have to ride it out for the last part of the year.
I had season tix for the Giants for 20 season (mostly the Eli/Coughlin era) and there were some December games no one wanted to go to.
But baseball is the one sport where there is a real sell off with as much as 1/3 of the season left.
Buyer beware; I get it and the rationale for selling, especially end of contract players, for a better future.
I'm not waiting for Steve Cohen to throw STH a bone, believe me.
This season just sucks..
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Rangers interested.
I mean if it's a huge return you have to do it but who the heck will be pitching in the rotation next year?
Would be funny if Verlander replaced Jake there too...haha
It would be nice of Cohen to do some kind of a make-good but they don't actually owe the season ticket holders anything.
The real make-good, hopefully, would be years of sustained success fueled by these young guys they are drafting and trading for. I know we fans don't like to "Trust the Process" but in this case I think it's fair.
They'll bring in Stearns over Eppler, things will get better. They tried to do it fast, they face-planted. Now they're going to build from the ground up. Good.
Just get talented guys in the system and see who makes it. That's basically what Eppler needs to do with this deadline.
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over this trade. Fair too many Mets fans, it’s damned if you do; damned if you don’t. The Mets brass’s stated goal was to rebuild the minor league system. You don’t do that by only trading for near-Major League prospects, you need to fill in the lower levels too.
Robertson has been a solid closer, but he’s 38 and going to be a FA. That’s going to limit the return in any trade. If the Mets pass on this trade and wait, maybe the return isn’t as good. Then we’d all be complaining about them passing on this trade.
Robertson is a rental. His age does not matter other than he doesn’t need to fall apart for 3 months. He has been outstanding this year as a closer and will be the Marlins closer.
Yes, Robertson is a rental, and that fact alone limits the return. I think the Mets did pretty well.
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Rangers interested.
I mean if it's a huge return you have to do it but who the heck will be pitching in the rotation next year?
I could live with:
Shohei
Max
Urias
Senga
Qutinana (or Peterson if they can get a good return for Quintana)
for good reason. if cohen doesnt care about salary relief we shouldn't either. you're gonna be ok, the wilponzis cant hurt you anymore.
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In comment 16159736 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Rangers interested.
I mean if it's a huge return you have to do it but who the heck will be pitching in the rotation next year?
I could live with:
Shohei
Max
Urias
Senga
Qutinana (or Peterson if they can get a good return for Quintana)
If they're getting rid of Verlander then they should get rid of Max as well. No reason to keep him at that point. I don't see Ohtani coming. Urias we'd have to be the front runner but I am concerned with the year he's having and the money he will command. Peterson yuck.
The fishing is over; wise to cut bait.
They should fire sale whoever they can and move onward.
The high payroll dinged the Mets' draft position, and that turned out to be for nothing.
Rangers won't go anywhere if they don't add another pitcher. DeGrom is out until literally end of next season.
Would be hysterical if Kumar Rocker became a secondary piece in the trade - although if i were Mets, would be uninterested, I don't see how he comes back from his injury at this point.
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I'd ask the Rangers for 3 of their top 10 prospects for Verlander, including Leiter. Take it or leave it.
Evan Carter, 20-year-old CF, is their #1 prospect. I want that guy.
Owen White as well perhaps but don't think Texas giving up MLB ready arm who they just recently called up.
If they're getting rid of Verlander then they should get rid of Max as well. No reason to keep him at that point. I don't see Ohtani coming. Urias we'd have to be the front runner but I am concerned with the year he's having and the money he will command. Peterson yuck.
Max has the ntc and i'd imagine a weaker market since he hasnt pitched as well so i assumed he's tougher to move for a good return.
re Urias/Ohtani i havent too seriously looked at next year's FA list but obviously we know Cohen is likely to be a serious player for whoever they want. i know giolito is another one. i assume they'll have at least 2 accomplished SP under contract and probably be shopping for at least 2 more.
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If they're getting rid of Verlander then they should get rid of Max as well. No reason to keep him at that point. I don't see Ohtani coming. Urias we'd have to be the front runner but I am concerned with the year he's having and the money he will command. Peterson yuck.
Max has the ntc and i'd imagine a weaker market since he hasnt pitched as well so i assumed he's tougher to move for a good return.
re Urias/Ohtani i havent too seriously looked at next year's FA list but obviously we know Cohen is likely to be a serious player for whoever they want. i know giolito is another one. i assume they'll have at least 2 accomplished SP under contract and probably be shopping for at least 2 more.
Exception: Veteran leadership. Boy, does the team need that.
If Quintana traded, add a Backend starter too
Scherzer
FA
Yamamoto
Senga
Quintana/equivalent
Next season Scherzer/Quintana gone:
Yamamoto
FA
Senga
4th and 5th hopefully they have Tidwell and someone else internal by then. If not, another Quintana type
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I'd ask the Rangers for 3 of their top 10 prospects for Verlander, including Leiter. Take it or leave it.
Evan Carter, 20-year-old CF, is their #1 prospect. I want that guy.
Him or Acuna would be a dream, but I don’t see it happening
With Thursday night’s trade of David Robertson to the Miami Marlins, the Mets front office knew that it conceded the 2023 Wild Card race in favor of seizing an opportunity to bolster the farm system.
The next few days until the Aug. 1 trade deadline will bring several more deals. Of that, there is no doubt. “It’s going to be busy,” said one source with knowledge of the Mets’ thinking.
Here’s the latest, as of midday Friday:
-- Justin Verlander is generating moderate interest, but it is far from certain that he will be moved. The Mets are willing to talk about Verlander when other teams ask, but have not yet come close to asking the veteran to waive his no-trade clause. The team values what Verlander could contribute in 2024, and believe Verlander and his family to be happy in New York.
As MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand reported, a reunion with Houston is one possibility for Verlander. The Angels are also looking for more starting pitching, and have been scouting the Mets, as have the Reds and other clubs.
-- As of Friday, Max Scherzer is less likely to move. The reason is simple: Clubs scouting him have been less than impressed with the quality of his stuff.
-- Mark Canha and Tommy Pham are generating interest, and are likely to be traded.
On a related note, and as SNY reported Wednesday, the Yankees are looking for a right-handed hitting left fielder to pair with Jake Bauers and Billy McKinney. The Mets and Yankees have an ongoing dialogue -- Brian Cashman is Billy Eppler’s mentor -- and discussed a Robertson trade this week.
-- Catcher Omar Narvaez is very available. So is Brooks Raley, but the team holds an option on him for next year, so would need a larger return.
Buckle up for more Mets trade news - ( New Window )
Dump Carrasco too. Thanks.
Dump Carrasco too. Thanks.
Canha has value. He’s not a dump. Pham has some serious value (if healthy). .813 OPS.
Lavender would needed to be added to the 40 man whereas Garrett does not. As far as him versus Walker, perhaps they want him to get more frequent pitching at AAA versus being the last guy out of the bullpen with the Mets.
My guess is Garrett is on a short leash. Older and looks like a AAAA pitcher, but doing well in AAA. Probably giving him a few appearances at the MLB level. If he stinks it up as he has in the past option/DFA him.
Mauricio is the obvious call-up but he's supposed to be bad in the outfield. Baty played a little there but I'd be shocked if they put him out there every day, especially since they see him as the third baseman of the future. Vientos is barely a first baseman, he's bad at third, I can't see him moving out to LF. Luke Voit is at Syracuse; he's not going to play LF in Queens. So... who? They're not trading Canha or Pham for similar players; it has to be prospects. If they don't pick up some outfielders, and they're going to start Stewart and call up Tim Locastro, it's gonna be mighty ugly.
Mauricio is the obvious call-up but he's supposed to be bad in the outfield. Baty played a little there but I'd be shocked if they put him out there every day, especially since they see him as the third baseman of the future. Vientos is barely a first baseman, he's bad at third, I can't see him moving out to LF. Luke Voit is at Syracuse; he's not going to play LF in Queens. So... who? They're not trading Canha or Pham for similar players; it has to be prospects. If they don't pick up some outfielders, and they're going to start Stewart and call up Tim Locastro, it's gonna be mighty ugly.
They would play McNeil in a corner OF spot and start Mendick at 2B (although I would play Mauricio there) and/or D.J. Stewart
Mauricio is the obvious call-up but he's supposed to be bad in the outfield. Baty played a little there but I'd be shocked if they put him out there every day, especially since they see him as the third baseman of the future. Vientos is barely a first baseman, he's bad at third, I can't see him moving out to LF. Luke Voit is at Syracuse; he's not going to play LF in Queens. So... who? They're not trading Canha or Pham for similar players; it has to be prospects. If they don't pick up some outfielders, and they're going to start Stewart and call up Tim Locastro, it's gonna be mighty ugly.
If you’re trading your closer with this bullpen you’re kind of past the part of caring if it gets ugly. Locastro is on the DL. It will be Stewart/McNeil/Nimmo until Marte is back. Call up a Cedrola, Cortes, or Almonte. Whatever. When you decide to sell, winning is secondary
Alvarez, Vientos, Baty all in the lineup
Ohtani isn't available - that will be an offseason play. There's no big fish at starter or as bat - gonna see a lot of last minute moves next two days. They have enough pitching up front, but adding depth is the standard play for a team - load up the bench/bullpen/swing starter type to eat up innings late in year. Dodgers have a system where they actually need to shed some of their huge system depth, they're just going to lose them in the offseason Rule V/ drafts or not tendering.
I would read and enjoy it.
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the mets longer summary after the trade deadline? needless to say i have thoughts and it looks like they are in the midst of a pivot worthy of some guarded optimism.
I would read and enjoy it.
+1