To this point, he really isn't showing any more than Lorenzo Carter did. An occasional great play every so often punctuating long periods of invisibility. Where is the explosive playmaker he was supposed to be?
the next biggest disappointment for me was the play of the front 7.
You would figure that the Giants DL would watch the guys from Dallas and say to each other - "We gotta go out there and dominate like they are!" They didn't.
This isn't your older brother's Dallas OL either - they aren't world beaters like before. They got no pressure - that's a problem I didn't expect to see.
the offensive tackle as Thibs came in low just put his hands on his upper back and shoved him into the ground. There is a real lack of physicality. Throw in Neal and the lastest draft grades are dropping.
the next biggest disappointment for me was the play of the front 7.
You would figure that the Giants DL would watch the guys from Dallas and say to each other - "We gotta go out there and dominate like they are!" They didn't.
This isn't your older brother's Dallas OL either - they aren't world beaters like before. They got no pressure - that's a problem I didn't expect to see.
Bingo.
Not defending KT here, but where was everyone else too?
and defense as whole after the Giants offense and special teams gift wrapped points and premium field position. Honestly, I can't think of anything but our offensive line today. But, yeah, he doesn't seem to be living up to his draft position.
To me, KT was the biggest disappointment. He was not the worst out there by any stretch. But, I had expectations of a huge game from him; a dominating game. I expected a Parsons-like game with one OL out and another hurt. Instead, he did nothing. Kid gloves off. He's not a rookie and he's not nursing an injury. This should have been a coming out party for him. He should have been dictating the action in a way Dallas was, to actually give us a shot. Instead nothing.
Yes, the rest of this vaunted D was bad. But, he was one guy I expected to set the tone. I guess, in a way, he did. It just wasn't the right tone.
Is it possible to whiff this badly on not one, but 2 first round picks in the same draft?
but in truth, before the defense could settle in this was pretty much a 3 score game.
The biggest contributing factor the defense had in getting to that point was the broken play to Lamb in which Jackson got taken out on a pick play that I still have no idea is legal or not.
oh, don't get me wrong, the entire DL shares blame
Even Dex had a weak game last night. Hell, Riley made the most impressive play by a lineman last night. It was a great TFL but if your sixth round rookie run-stuffer has the standout play of the night, that's not good.
I just singled out KT because he was so hyped after the draft last year and, so far, has really underwhelmed.
I thought he'd play well because this was a national game
he or the rest of the defense did much, but as someone said, the game got out of control very quickly. The offense couldn't move because the OL was so bad. That must have been very discouraging.
Its certainly a rough start. He can still develop into a good pass rusher, but it seems like the top pass rushers show their capability from the get go. We haven't seen that from him. I hope that changes at some point this season
RE: oh, don't get me wrong, the entire DL shares blame
Even Dex had a weak game last night. Hell, Riley made the most impressive play by a lineman last night. It was a great TFL but if your sixth round rookie run-stuffer has the standout play of the night, that's not good.
I just singled out KT because he was so hyped after the draft last year and, so far, has really underwhelmed.
Agreed again.
I know Dallas still has a good OL, even with a starter out. But, with one out and one hurt, that does weaken what is supposed to be one of their strengths. With the depth added on DL and OLB (I hate using the EDGE term), our front 7 was also supposed to be a real strength this year. They were invisible.
everyone whose contract was extended played like crap. Willand Lawrence did do a damn thing. KT can look good at times and then has games where he is totally ineffective.
Has he developed more pass rush tools besides the bull rush? So far, the answer is no.
The bigger issue looks to be Williams, he was invisible and he had a favorable match up last night. Is he done?
Lastly, Ojulari had a solid rookie season and has been injured and ineffective ever since. Maybe they can get more snaps from Basham going forward.
Actually, Ojulari was surprisingly productive rushing the passer last year when he played. The problem was he hardly played. He still ended up with 5 sacks.
what he has done. But, this is kind of why I was never in favor of the trade or the contract we gave him. WE paid him like an elite DT in the middle of a dismal run as a team. So, not only did we overpay him, in my opinion, but we did so when his best years were likely to be wasted. Now, he is a very expensive piece of the D, but is very likely slowing down between age and nagging injuries. He is still expected to be a productive player, but not like a few years ago.
That said, he and Lawrence, especially with improved depth behind them to give breathers, really need to dominate every game regardless of the OL in front of them. This team will have a hard time winnning if that isn't the case.
Dallas to a FG on the First 2 Dallas Offensive drives.
Without the turnovers it's 6-0 with 5 minutes left in the half.
No one played well but the defense was not getting abused out there last night. They gave up a total 265 yds. Dax was 13 for 24 143 yds no touchdowns.
Dallas' defense and special teams beat the shit out of us.
Well, the issue is the Cowboys had fewer drives than the Giants because of the Giants' screw ups. NY had 12 drives (65 plays). Dallas had 9 drives (55 plays).
Dallas still scored give times on the Giants (three touchdowns drives, two field goal drives).
Dallas to a FG on the First 2 Dallas Offensive drives.
Without the turnovers it's 6-0 with 5 minutes left in the half.
No one played well but the defense was not getting abused out there last night. They gave up a total 265 yds. Dax was 13 for 24 143 yds no touchdowns.
Dallas' defense and special teams beat the shit out of us.
This is watching the game in a bubble. The two turnovers did happen and they played a big role. Dallas didn't need to force a thing when they got down field because they had the luxury of 2 TDs on the board from their D and ST on the Giants first 2 offensive series. That completely changes the whole complexion of the game.
since Oregon. A pretty good dimension, but nothing elite. Just seems too stiff. So, I never liked spending a high pick on KT.
But everyone was horrible last night. The bad play spread through the team like Covid. Hard to just single out KT.
I believe the Cards are the worst team in the NFL. So, the entire team is going to get a chance right away to exorcise some of last night's demons.
Agree about Cards. And, I don't like to count wins before they happen...but this is not just a game to win. After last night, we have to REALLY beat them.
Needs to be the focus in ‘24. The OL is rightfully getting a lot of shit today but the front 4 on D wasn’t much better. They need another impact edge rusher just as much as OL help.
It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
possibly busting (to varying degrees) on two top 7 picks is a real problem that should not get an auto mulligan. He needs to figure this roster building thing out in a hurry. Neal doesn't appear to have any dog in him. Jury is out on KT, and while he's shown to be a more productive player than Neal, is he a top 5 pick difference maker? This whole organization seems stuck in the clutches of failure and it's beyond frustrating that we may be reverting back to the horrendous old days of 2013 - 2021.
The gameplan was out the window by the middle of the 2nd quarter
possibly busting (to varying degrees) on two top 7 picks is a real problem that should not get an auto mulligan. He needs to figure this roster building thing out in a hurry. Neal doesn't appear to have any dog in him. Jury is out on KT, and while he's shown to be a more productive player than Neal, is he a top 5 pick difference maker? This whole organization seems stuck in the clutches of failure and it's beyond frustrating that we may be reverting back to the horrendous old days of 2013 - 2021.
It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
We saw flashes of potential elite play last year. Baltimore, Washington, the Dallas game where he had 9 pressures. Lawrence didn’t look elite at the beginning of his career.
thing is he played very well against the Cowboys on Thanksgiving. He had 9 pressures in that game against the same opponent.
Giants got very little out of Lawrence, Williams, Ojulari, KT and company.
And Dallas was missing their LG.
as I said on the other thread, when does Wink start getting some shit here and elsewhere? They've given him everything he asked for and more, trading up for Banks, trading for Simmons when they would have been better off trading for OG help. Yet his mad scientist, dial up pressure rep is not being vindicated here.
It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
We saw flashes of potential elite play last year. Baltimore, Washington, the Dallas game where he had 9 pressures. Lawrence didn’t look elite at the beginning of his career.
Didn't the Giants play him out of position until last year?
RE: 5th overall edge rusher and 20 games is too soon?
Strahan was a second round pick from Texas Southern who played his high school ball in Germany. He was always supposed to be a project.
And he’s a hall of famer. Point is, not playing lights out in year one and one game into year 2, while disappointing, doesn’t mean he won’t get any better.
It seems like the 2 IDL, 2 edge rusher look we saw last year is the real base and not a product of the roster. And I was especially surprised to see how often both edge guys had their hands in the dirt.
They weren't ready for last night. Dallas is pretty much a veteran team; they were ready. I'm not surprised the rookies were a bit overwhelmed. They'd never played a real NFL game, never mind SNF. But the veterans should have been better. I said in the game thread that Dex had been quiet. Dex, Williams, Ojulari, Okereke, Jackson... Those guys aren't kids. They should have set a tone.
KT and Neal looked the same as last year. That's gonna be a problem unless they improve quickly.
I don't believe in "coming out flat." You always look "flat" when you're getting your ass kicked. But they folded pretty easily last night. Alarming.
It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
No, except against the Jeff Saturday coached Colts and the corpse formerly known as Nick Foles.
looked entirely beatable. The two freak turnovers really changed how the game went. The defense wasn't terrible, but you can't ignore that there was zero pass rush from the giants.
I get preaching patience, but we're not talking about a QB who needs the game to slow down. KT should be flashing more by now.
Exactly. You knew a couple weeks into his rookie year that Sauce Gardner was a stud and CB is arguably the hardest position to play in the NFL. I don’t think our 6th round rookie CB struggled as bad as Neal has. Out Late round DT showed more positives than Neal has!
We didn't make mistakes and we made a ton yesterday.
This team is young and not good enough to gove Dallas a 13 point lead.
The D did what it did all last year bend don't break. FG not TDs. Which would have been enough especially in the weather. If the offense and special teams don't keep handing Dallas points and field position.
No one on Dallas offense stood out last night, no one killed us..
Dallas defense and poor execution on offense and special teams beat us.
singling out players after last night's game. I can pick out like 2 guys that played well and that's it. The team crapped the bed, period.
This isn't what we're going to look like next week, I'm very sure of that.
Again, this is not solely about last night.
Exactly. For half the year last year, or more, we were told, he's a rookie, he was hurt, he gets pressures, etc. For that long we could buy it. Then he had one monster game and another good game, and you think he turned the corner. But, for almost an entire season, he was not a special player. I don't think he sucked. But, he was not a difference maker. Last night, year 2 with injuries on the OL, I was expecting a difference maker.
Again, does he suck? No. But, a #5 pick at a position where guys tend to have an easier time making an impact early on, he has been mostly impactless.
It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
We saw flashes of potential elite play last year. Baltimore, Washington, the Dallas game where he had 9 pressures. Lawrence didn’t look elite at the beginning of his career.
Look at the effect that Hutchinson has on an opposing Oline vs what we got in Thibs. Hutch was held on every play, had the OT lining up in the backfield on pass plays, and the OT was jumping early every other snap.
With Thibs we get excuses. What a difference 3 spots in the draft make
That's an interesting point about Hutch. He is the centerpiece of that Lions D. He's always coming and an offense needs to know exactly where he is pre-snap.
KT, right now, is a complimentary player at best...
I was never a fan of Thibs at Oregon on predraft discussions last year
I thought he disappeared for significant periods during games
I actually thought he might be a tad lazy during last years predraft discussions on BBI
Then when he did play for us last year I thought he only had 1 pass rush move on the outside .
I hope I am wrong.
If it’s the same at the end of the year then there is a cause for concern.
I agree with this 100%. It's the comparisons to AT that Neal and Thibs get that kind of irk me. Most first round busts suck early on...AT is an outlier, not an example.
....Look at the effect that Hutchinson has on an opposing Oline vs what we got in Thibs. Hutch was held on every play, had the OT lining up in the backfield on pass plays, and the OT was jumping early every other snap.
With Thibs we get excuses. What a difference 3 spots in the draft make
Yep, made this point about Hutch in my Kayvon thread over the weekend: it's about power + athleticism yields a bigger range of pass rush moves; KT may be lacking some in the former.
"*I am going to try and not make this too long because the Thibodeaux fans get really offended, really easily. First off: I have 800+ grades on my master sheet along with another 400+ “training camp body” labels. Thibdodeaux is in the top 15. So yes, I do like him, and I do project him to be a very good football player in the NFL. A starter with high, sky-high, upside. There is some Harold Landry in his game. That said, I do not see him being the All-Pro or even perennial Pro Bowl type. When it comes to the “effort” shortcomings, this is NOT a guy that walks up and down the field. He does NOT play with the “I don’t care” label. There is more to effort than sheer hustle, however.
My issues with Thibodeaux revolve around what he did against his best competition. If he lost initially, if he got locked on to, I did not see the secondary moves. I didn’t see the secondary wiggle to try and re-gain a position. The contrast between him and the other top 5 edge guys in the class in that department is obvious. He also had too many dumb penalties. When it isn’t easy for him (he matched up against some awful OTs), he got frustrated and immature. He didn’t pin his ears back and elevate his game. To me, that is effort and mental toughness that just isn’t there. It is a crucial, borderline vital trait to playing the edge."
RE: here are Sy56 comments from the 2022 draft preview. Likes him a lot
"*I am going to try and not make this too long because the Thibodeaux fans get really offended, really easily. First off: I have 800+ grades on my master sheet along with another 400+ “training camp body” labels. Thibdodeaux is in the top 15. So yes, I do like him, and I do project him to be a very good football player in the NFL. A starter with high, sky-high, upside. There is some Harold Landry in his game. That said, I do not see him being the All-Pro or even perennial Pro Bowl type. When it comes to the “effort” shortcomings, this is NOT a guy that walks up and down the field. He does NOT play with the “I don’t care” label. There is more to effort than sheer hustle, however.
My issues with Thibodeaux revolve around what he did against his best competition. If he lost initially, if he got locked on to, I did not see the secondary moves. I didn’t see the secondary wiggle to try and re-gain a position. The contrast between him and the other top 5 edge guys in the class in that department is obvious. He also had too many dumb penalties. When it isn’t easy for him (he matched up against some awful OTs), he got frustrated and immature. He didn’t pin his ears back and elevate his game. To me, that is effort and mental toughness that just isn’t there. It is a crucial, borderline vital trait to playing the edge."
He was pretty invisible against Utah twice and I didn't love the pick at the time. If we are getting a Mathias Kiwanuka with him that's simply not good enough for where he was selected.
"*I am going to try and not make this too long because the Thibodeaux fans get really offended, really easily. First off: I have 800+ grades on my master sheet along with another 400+ “training camp body” labels. Thibdodeaux is in the top 15. So yes, I do like him, and I do project him to be a very good football player in the NFL. A starter with high, sky-high, upside. There is some Harold Landry in his game. That said, I do not see him being the All-Pro or even perennial Pro Bowl type. When it comes to the “effort” shortcomings, this is NOT a guy that walks up and down the field. He does NOT play with the “I don’t care” label. There is more to effort than sheer hustle, however.
My issues with Thibodeaux revolve around what he did against his best competition. If he lost initially, if he got locked on to, I did not see the secondary moves. I didn’t see the secondary wiggle to try and re-gain a position. The contrast between him and the other top 5 edge guys in the class in that department is obvious. He also had too many dumb penalties. When it isn’t easy for him (he matched up against some awful OTs), he got frustrated and immature. He didn’t pin his ears back and elevate his game. To me, that is effort and mental toughness that just isn’t there. It is a crucial, borderline vital trait to playing the edge."
He was pretty invisible against Utah twice and I didn't love the pick at the time. If we are getting a Mathias Kiwanuka with him that's simply not good enough for where he was selected.
I'll get back to Wink and the Defensive coaching staff. If the guy is an obvious talent then it's up to them to bring it out of him.
Again, you guys need to calm down. If he has 2 sacks against Arizona next Sunday, are you going to say that it was just luck because Arizona is a bad team?
Again, you guys need to calm down. If he has 2 sacks against Arizona next Sunday, are you going to say that it was just luck because Arizona is a bad team?
Luck? No. But, also not representative of what we've seen of him previously.
Again, you guys need to calm down. If he has 2 sacks against Arizona next Sunday, are you going to say that it was just luck because Arizona is a bad team?
So, it is your position that last year was more of an aberration and just move on?
Again, you guys need to calm down. If he has 2 sacks against Arizona next Sunday, are you going to say that it was just luck because Arizona is a bad team?
Arguing with hypotheticals now? Always the hallmark of a strong case.
Again, you guys need to calm down. If he has 2 sacks against Arizona next Sunday, are you going to say that it was just luck because Arizona is a bad team?
So, it is your position that last year was more of an aberration and just move on?
Again, you guys need to calm down. If he has 2 sacks against Arizona next Sunday, are you going to say that it was just luck because Arizona is a bad team?
It's not just about getting 10 sacks by the end of the year and saying everything is okay (although it's a step in the right direction). It's about being a disruptive edge rusher, getting pressures, getting hits, forcing holds and false starts, and blowing up plays/drives.
Again, you guys need to calm down. If he has 2 sacks against Arizona next Sunday, are you going to say that it was just luck because Arizona is a bad team?
It's not just about getting 10 sacks by the end of the year and saying everything is okay (although it's a step in the right direction). It's about being a disruptive edge rusher, getting pressures, getting hits, forcing holds and false starts, and blowing up plays/drives.
That is what you hope you signed at #5 overall.
Yes, and we really only saw that in 1 game thus far.
passion. He's shown that he can make some very athletic plays and take over a game, but I don't see it consistently enough. Maybe Wink needs to light a fire under him weekly.
Has officially reached his ceiling at the age of 22 and playing 15 NFL games for his career (not even a full season). He has nowhere to go but down from here. I wonder if we can at least get a 6th round pick for him.
Let's cut our losses now.
I seriously wonder if some people actually watched football and know what is going on. One loss and Joe schoen sucks, daboll sucks, thibodeaux sucks. The overreaction is absolutely mind-numbing.
where he's flying all over the field making plays. Not enough of those games but he's had them. He's had quarters where he's flying all over the place. Carter has had moments, not quarters and definitely not games. Thibs needs to be better but he's better than Carter ever was.
Giants got very little out of Lawrence, Williams, Ojulari, KT and company.
And Dallas was missing their LG.
I think he's soft.
You would figure that the Giants DL would watch the guys from Dallas and say to each other - "We gotta go out there and dominate like they are!" They didn't.
This isn't your older brother's Dallas OL either - they aren't world beaters like before. They got no pressure - that's a problem I didn't expect to see.
You would figure that the Giants DL would watch the guys from Dallas and say to each other - "We gotta go out there and dominate like they are!" They didn't.
This isn't your older brother's Dallas OL either - they aren't world beaters like before. They got no pressure - that's a problem I didn't expect to see.
Bingo.
Not defending KT here, but where was everyone else too?
Yup. They’re still young and learning, but so far that’s a pretty lousy return on 2 top ten picks
Yes, the rest of this vaunted D was bad. But, he was one guy I expected to set the tone. I guess, in a way, he did. It just wasn't the right tone.
Is it possible to whiff this badly on not one, but 2 first round picks in the same draft?
The biggest contributing factor the defense had in getting to that point was the broken play to Lamb in which Jackson got taken out on a pick play that I still have no idea is legal or not.
I just singled out KT because he was so hyped after the draft last year and, so far, has really underwhelmed.
Nope. He was content to stop trying once the score was 16-0.
I just singled out KT because he was so hyped after the draft last year and, so far, has really underwhelmed.
I know Dallas still has a good OL, even with a starter out. But, with one out and one hurt, that does weaken what is supposed to be one of their strengths. With the depth added on DL and OLB (I hate using the EDGE term), our front 7 was also supposed to be a real strength this year. They were invisible.
The bigger issue looks to be Williams, he was invisible and he had a favorable match up last night. Is he done?
Lastly, Ojulari had a solid rookie season and has been injured and ineffective ever since. Maybe they can get more snaps from Basham going forward.
That's the looming cloud that will start to come into view once the initial sting of 40-0 begins to fade.
The bigger issue looks to be Williams, he was invisible and he had a favorable match up last night. Is he done?
Lastly, Ojulari had a solid rookie season and has been injured and ineffective ever since. Maybe they can get more snaps from Basham going forward.
Actually, Ojulari was surprisingly productive rushing the passer last year when he played. The problem was he hardly played. He still ended up with 5 sacks.
That said, he and Lawrence, especially with improved depth behind them to give breathers, really need to dominate every game regardless of the OL in front of them. This team will have a hard time winnning if that isn't the case.
But everyone was horrible last night. The bad play spread through the team like Covid. Hard to just single out KT.
I believe the Cards are the worst team in the NFL. So, the entire team is going to get a chance right away to exorcise some of last night's demons.
obviously 1 game into year 2 the book isn't written on them, but it's tough to see how this turns around.
Dominates the Giants... they've struggled at times with plenty of other teams.
Without the turnovers it's 6-0 with 5 minutes left in the half.
No one played well but the defense was not getting abused out there last night. They gave up a total 265 yds. Dax was 13 for 24 143 yds no touchdowns.
Dallas' defense and special teams beat the shit out of us.
Without the turnovers it's 6-0 with 5 minutes left in the half.
No one played well but the defense was not getting abused out there last night. They gave up a total 265 yds. Dax was 13 for 24 143 yds no touchdowns.
Dallas' defense and special teams beat the shit out of us.
Citing stats this way without context is silly.
Dallas was up 26-0 in the first quarter. What did you want them to do, drop Dak back to throw deep every play.
the stats of Dallas offense is irrelevant given the circumstances.
Without the turnovers it's 6-0 with 5 minutes left in the half.
No one played well but the defense was not getting abused out there last night. They gave up a total 265 yds. Dax was 13 for 24 143 yds no touchdowns.
Dallas' defense and special teams beat the shit out of us.
Well, the issue is the Cowboys had fewer drives than the Giants because of the Giants' screw ups. NY had 12 drives (65 plays). Dallas had 9 drives (55 plays).
Dallas still scored give times on the Giants (three touchdowns drives, two field goal drives).
Without the turnovers it's 6-0 with 5 minutes left in the half.
No one played well but the defense was not getting abused out there last night. They gave up a total 265 yds. Dax was 13 for 24 143 yds no touchdowns.
Dallas' defense and special teams beat the shit out of us.
But everyone was horrible last night. The bad play spread through the team like Covid. Hard to just single out KT.
I believe the Cards are the worst team in the NFL. So, the entire team is going to get a chance right away to exorcise some of last night's demons.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
Every player sucked
Every coaching decision sucked
Take it and move on.
He blew every pick until Bellinger.
Quote:
It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
We saw flashes of potential elite play last year. Baltimore, Washington, the Dallas game where he had 9 pressures. Lawrence didn’t look elite at the beginning of his career.
Those guys need to step in Day One and produce.
Maybe not HoF level, but more than this.
Giants got very little out of Lawrence, Williams, Ojulari, KT and company.
And Dallas was missing their LG.
as I said on the other thread, when does Wink start getting some shit here and elsewhere? They've given him everything he asked for and more, trading up for Banks, trading for Simmons when they would have been better off trading for OG help. Yet his mad scientist, dial up pressure rep is not being vindicated here.
Strahan was a second round pick from Texas Southern who played his high school ball in Germany. He was always supposed to be a project.
Quote:
In comment 16200473 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
We saw flashes of potential elite play last year. Baltimore, Washington, the Dallas game where he had 9 pressures. Lawrence didn’t look elite at the beginning of his career.
Didn't the Giants play him out of position until last year?
There's some on this board who would be fine with Thibodeaux not being productive.
Quote:
in his first year starting full time.
Strahan was a second round pick from Texas Southern who played his high school ball in Germany. He was always supposed to be a project.
And he’s a hall of famer. Point is, not playing lights out in year one and one game into year 2, while disappointing, doesn’t mean he won’t get any better.
It was all the offense and special teams that was their undoing
I seriously like what you did there!
KT and Neal looked the same as last year. That's gonna be a problem unless they improve quickly.
I don't believe in "coming out flat." You always look "flat" when you're getting your ass kicked. But they folded pretty easily last night. Alarming.
But everyone was horrible last night. The bad play spread through the team like Covid. Hard to just single out KT.
I believe the Cards are the worst team in the NFL. So, the entire team is going to get a chance right away to exorcise some of last night's demons.
My biggest surprise and disappointment was our ability to pressure Dak. I thought we'd look like they did on D.
It was all the offense and special teams that was their undoing
The Cowboys only punted three times.
Quote:
It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
No, except against the Jeff Saturday coached Colts and the corpse formerly known as Nick Foles.
This isn't what we're going to look like next week, I'm very sure of that.
We will see if it changes but it doesn't look like spending big on Leo and Adoree will be in the cards for next year
This isn't what we're going to look like next week, I'm very sure of that.
Again, this is not solely about last night.
The big talk all offseason was "did the Giants close the gap"...all you needed to do was watch the two defenses play and the answer was clearly "no".
It was especially true of the front 7. The Giants just aren't in the same class as the Cowboys. My fear is that the same will be true of the Eagles.
This team is young and not good enough to gove Dallas a 13 point lead.
The D did what it did all last year bend don't break. FG not TDs. Which would have been enough especially in the weather. If the offense and special teams don't keep handing Dallas points and field position.
No one on Dallas offense stood out last night, no one killed us..
Dallas defense and poor execution on offense and special teams beat us.
Quote:
singling out players after last night's game. I can pick out like 2 guys that played well and that's it. The team crapped the bed, period.
This isn't what we're going to look like next week, I'm very sure of that.
Again, this is not solely about last night.
Again, does he suck? No. But, a #5 pick at a position where guys tend to have an easier time making an impact early on, he has been mostly impactless.
Quote:
In comment 16200473 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
It’s way too early for this. It will always be fascinating how some guys don’t get the same energy.
When is it not too early? Dude was the seventh overall pick - have you seen much of anything from him that gives you much hope that he was be elite at his position?
We saw flashes of potential elite play last year. Baltimore, Washington, the Dallas game where he had 9 pressures. Lawrence didn’t look elite at the beginning of his career.
Look at the effect that Hutchinson has on an opposing Oline vs what we got in Thibs. Hutch was held on every play, had the OT lining up in the backfield on pass plays, and the OT was jumping early every other snap.
With Thibs we get excuses. What a difference 3 spots in the draft make
KT, right now, is a complimentary player at best...
I actually thought he might be a tad lazy during last years predraft discussions on BBI
Then when he did play for us last year I thought he only had 1 pass rush move on the outside .
I hope I am wrong.
Don’t be sorry…the 7th pick ain’t any better 😂
I agree with this 100%. It's the comparisons to AT that Neal and Thibs get that kind of irk me. Most first round busts suck early on...AT is an outlier, not an example.
It's bad enough to miss on one top 10 pick missing on two is a complete disaster.
Seems like the Giants can't even be saved from themselves
With Thibs we get excuses. What a difference 3 spots in the draft make
Yep, made this point about Hutch in my Kayvon thread over the weekend: it's about power + athleticism yields a bigger range of pass rush moves; KT may be lacking some in the former.
"*I am going to try and not make this too long because the Thibodeaux fans get really offended, really easily. First off: I have 800+ grades on my master sheet along with another 400+ “training camp body” labels. Thibdodeaux is in the top 15. So yes, I do like him, and I do project him to be a very good football player in the NFL. A starter with high, sky-high, upside. There is some Harold Landry in his game. That said, I do not see him being the All-Pro or even perennial Pro Bowl type. When it comes to the “effort” shortcomings, this is NOT a guy that walks up and down the field. He does NOT play with the “I don’t care” label. There is more to effort than sheer hustle, however.
My issues with Thibodeaux revolve around what he did against his best competition. If he lost initially, if he got locked on to, I did not see the secondary moves. I didn’t see the secondary wiggle to try and re-gain a position. The contrast between him and the other top 5 edge guys in the class in that department is obvious. He also had too many dumb penalties. When it isn’t easy for him (he matched up against some awful OTs), he got frustrated and immature. He didn’t pin his ears back and elevate his game. To me, that is effort and mental toughness that just isn’t there. It is a crucial, borderline vital trait to playing the edge."
"*I am going to try and not make this too long because the Thibodeaux fans get really offended, really easily. First off: I have 800+ grades on my master sheet along with another 400+ “training camp body” labels. Thibdodeaux is in the top 15. So yes, I do like him, and I do project him to be a very good football player in the NFL. A starter with high, sky-high, upside. There is some Harold Landry in his game. That said, I do not see him being the All-Pro or even perennial Pro Bowl type. When it comes to the “effort” shortcomings, this is NOT a guy that walks up and down the field. He does NOT play with the “I don’t care” label. There is more to effort than sheer hustle, however.
My issues with Thibodeaux revolve around what he did against his best competition. If he lost initially, if he got locked on to, I did not see the secondary moves. I didn’t see the secondary wiggle to try and re-gain a position. The contrast between him and the other top 5 edge guys in the class in that department is obvious. He also had too many dumb penalties. When it isn’t easy for him (he matched up against some awful OTs), he got frustrated and immature. He didn’t pin his ears back and elevate his game. To me, that is effort and mental toughness that just isn’t there. It is a crucial, borderline vital trait to playing the edge."
He was pretty invisible against Utah twice and I didn't love the pick at the time. If we are getting a Mathias Kiwanuka with him that's simply not good enough for where he was selected.
Strahan had an injury and barely played in his rookie year. He didn't start until 1994 where I believe he had around 7 sacks.
Quote:
BUT:
"*I am going to try and not make this too long because the Thibodeaux fans get really offended, really easily. First off: I have 800+ grades on my master sheet along with another 400+ “training camp body” labels. Thibdodeaux is in the top 15. So yes, I do like him, and I do project him to be a very good football player in the NFL. A starter with high, sky-high, upside. There is some Harold Landry in his game. That said, I do not see him being the All-Pro or even perennial Pro Bowl type. When it comes to the “effort” shortcomings, this is NOT a guy that walks up and down the field. He does NOT play with the “I don’t care” label. There is more to effort than sheer hustle, however.
My issues with Thibodeaux revolve around what he did against his best competition. If he lost initially, if he got locked on to, I did not see the secondary moves. I didn’t see the secondary wiggle to try and re-gain a position. The contrast between him and the other top 5 edge guys in the class in that department is obvious. He also had too many dumb penalties. When it isn’t easy for him (he matched up against some awful OTs), he got frustrated and immature. He didn’t pin his ears back and elevate his game. To me, that is effort and mental toughness that just isn’t there. It is a crucial, borderline vital trait to playing the edge."
He was pretty invisible against Utah twice and I didn't love the pick at the time. If we are getting a Mathias Kiwanuka with him that's simply not good enough for where he was selected.
I'll get back to Wink and the Defensive coaching staff. If the guy is an obvious talent then it's up to them to bring it out of him.
It's bad enough to miss on one top 10 pick missing on two is a complete disaster.
It appears they did
Quote:
in his first year starting full time.
Strahan had an injury and barely played in his rookie year. He didn't start until 1994 where I believe he had around 7 sacks.
His second season is when he had the 4.5 sacks that I mentioned. It was his first season starting.
So, it is your position that last year was more of an aberration and just move on?
Arguing with hypotheticals now? Always the hallmark of a strong case.
Quote:
Again, you guys need to calm down. If he has 2 sacks against Arizona next Sunday, are you going to say that it was just luck because Arizona is a bad team?
So, it is your position that last year was more of an aberration and just move on?
Should read "last night"...
It's not just about getting 10 sacks by the end of the year and saying everything is okay (although it's a step in the right direction). It's about being a disruptive edge rusher, getting pressures, getting hits, forcing holds and false starts, and blowing up plays/drives.
That is what you hope you signed at #5 overall.
Quote:
Again, you guys need to calm down. If he has 2 sacks against Arizona next Sunday, are you going to say that it was just luck because Arizona is a bad team?
It's not just about getting 10 sacks by the end of the year and saying everything is okay (although it's a step in the right direction). It's about being a disruptive edge rusher, getting pressures, getting hits, forcing holds and false starts, and blowing up plays/drives.
That is what you hope you signed at #5 overall.
Parsons is being used effectively against the pass. He does not have as many tackles as many LBs in the league. last year he was well below the curve
Let's cut our losses now.
I seriously wonder if some people actually watched football and know what is going on. One loss and Joe schoen sucks, daboll sucks, thibodeaux sucks. The overreaction is absolutely mind-numbing.