who agrees with Schoen I'm sure. Face of the franchise important. Demoralizing an already fading team further is important. Glad they are keeping Barkley.
The guy rushing for 300 yds in the last 3 games, behind this OL and vs those DL's, is unbelievable. Hell the 1 TD we got yesterday where the high school QB DeVito ran it in, worked because they faked to Barkley and the whole D followed him.
Why on earth wouldn't we move him? How doesn't saquon wake up today and say, I'd love to play for a contender. Not only that, NYG wouldn't be able to tag him again in the offseason. If LW is fetching a 2 + 5, what would a contender pay for saquon?
He's such a core part of the franchise that he was 45 mins from being let go this past offseason is jones got the franchise tag.
about the “state” of the franchise. An oft injured and inconsistent RB (who still can’t help block well) who is passing his prime as we speak and is not even under contract for next season.
The chances that Saquon Barkley is a contributor to the next Giants team that is a real contender is approximately 0.0%. He's clearly lost a few steps already. What's the point of this?
who agrees with Schoen I'm sure. Face of the franchise important. Demoralizing an already fading team further is important. Glad they are keeping Barkley.
The chances that Saquon Barkley is a contributor to the next Giants team that is a real contender is approximately 0.0%. He's clearly lost a few steps already. What's the point of this?
Bingo.
It is so strange that it does make one wonder if ownership has said no.
Jeff Howe
@jeffphowe
·
11m
Teams have continued to call the Giants about RB Saquon Barkley, but they’ve been told he’s definitely not available, per sources. The Giants were open about this last week, but it hasn’t stopped teams from trying.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
2m
It’s one thing if teams are low-balling, but this can’t be a Gettleman situation with not taking calls on the No. 2 pick
This blows my mind. Sure it would be nice to have another weapon for a potential 1st round QB but acquiring another high pick helps in the event that they need to move up. Let’s face it trading Barkley would essentially guarantee them a top 2 pick in April which is what they need.
They can always sell Barkley on the fact that they will try to sign him as a FA after a trade this offseason.
Why didn't they just sign him long term and franchise Jones? It doesn't make sense.
because if they franchised DJ they wouldn't have any money to sign anyone else??? Without completely f'ing up the future cap with Leo or Adoree Jackson restructures
This blows my mind. Sure it would be nice to have another weapon for a potential 1st round QB but acquiring another high pick helps in the event that they need to move up. Let’s face it trading Barkley would essentially guarantee them a top 2 pick in April which is what they need.
They can always sell Barkley on the fact that they will try to sign him as a FA after a trade this offseason.
Sell Barkley? Why do they owe Barkley anything?
The players on the NYG roster the past five years don't deserve any special consideration.
that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
RE: RE: I couldn't care less about who the face of a loser franchise is
It is so strange that it does make one wonder if ownership has said no.
I resisted the conclusion that John Mara was actively meddling in football operations for a long time. Howvever, as some have pointed out, we are seeing the same old patterns of mismanagement that we've seen from the Giants for a long time now. Many coaches have come and gone, scouts have come and gone, a couple of GMs, many many players....the one constant through this entire dark age has been ownership.
It’s clear as day to many here that John has a hard time
This .... but unless they have a sure fire fix the OL in the offseason he should not be untouchable. If the face of the franchise is that huge a deal .... a player swap of some sort. I will say this he personality is well received outside football. The sentiment "He is such a nice young man his mother must be proud." helps with jersey sales for young kids. Also does not hurt not have the star player plaster for some knucklehead incident over all media channels.
They are trying to drum it interest. I’m sure teams are offense 4th and 5th rounders and they want a 2nd round pick. Even if we have to eat the remainder of the money and I have to drive him to the airport, for a 2nd rounder.
RE: RE: RE: I couldn't care less about who the face of a loser franchise is
It is so strange that it does make one wonder if ownership has said no.
I resisted the conclusion that John Mara was actively meddling in football operations for a long time. Howvever, as some have pointed out, we are seeing the same old patterns of mismanagement that we've seen from the Giants for a long time now. Many coaches have come and gone, scouts have come and gone, a couple of GMs, many many players....the one constant through this entire dark age has been ownership.
Just listen to Mara talk. It's clear he's very much involved in all major decisions. Absolutely he's involved in the Barkley decision 100%.
that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
He was great yesterday but agree with Eric he’s losing a step. Also, yesterday’s game shows why running backs aren’t getting paid like other positions. After the jets offsides he’s running out the clock and after some good runs he goes to the sideline for a break for breida to come in. In that type of spot, no other high priced position comes off the field (QB, WR, OT, any defender with the script flipped isn’t coming off).
I’m not buying her story.
She called Kim Jones and got this…sarcasm
I wouldn’t be surprised if they would trade him for a late first or early second.
Probably not going to happen with his salary expectation and injury history.
that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
You don't get it.
Saquon is not part of the solution here.
He's an injury-prone back who is wearing down. He would be excellent for a contender right now because he has a couple of good years probably left (if he doesn't get hurt again).
that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
I'm glad we can agree that he is no longer elite. We also have not attempted to add a #1 RB because Barkley is on the roster.
RE: RE: RE: I couldn't care less about who the face of a loser franchise is
It is so strange that it does make one wonder if ownership has said no.
I resisted the conclusion that John Mara was actively meddling in football operations for a long time. Howvever, as some have pointed out, we are seeing the same old patterns of mismanagement that we've seen from the Giants for a long time now. Many coaches have come and gone, scouts have come and gone, a couple of GMs, many many players....the one constant through this entire dark age has been ownership.
There's no reason to believe that anybody else would refer to Barkley as the "face of the franchise".
Honestly feel that the offers coming are not that great. Schoen looking around realize he is the only weapon they have big money spent on Jones who is worthless without him he is stuck and his best option is to draft one of the young stud QBs coming out and put Barkley behind him to ease the next rebuild without looking so bad that everybody gets fired
that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
You don't get it.
Saquon is not part of the solution here.
He's an injury-prone back who is wearing down. He would be excellent for a contender right now because he has a couple of good years probably left (if he doesn't get hurt again).
So the 2-6 team gets worse? Big fucking deal.
No, I agree with everything you said here. They SHOULD trade him.
But let's not pretend the RB position is plug and play. Barkley is by far the most talented back the Giants have had. Replacing him won't be as easy as some people here think.
If the Giants won't listen to offers on Barkley that has to be coming from Mara. You think if a team offered a first for Barkley, Schoen wouldn't take it in a heartbeat?
I am not suggesting that anyone would offer that, but is this a "don't trade him for a 3rd", or "don't trade him at all?"
that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
So Saquon's 3.6 YPC is the amazing you're looking for?
but he is still a very good back. We are wasting his career here. Our OL's always stink and we never have a real passing attack to help out. He takes a beating every game, yet still gets 100 yds. He is very much underrated by some here.
The chances that Saquon Barkley is a contributor to the next Giants team that is a real contender is approximately 0.0%. He's clearly lost a few steps already. What's the point of this?
Bingo.
It is so strange that it does make one wonder if ownership has said no.
Agreed. Of course, the question is also what other teams are offering. I'd trade him for a third, but I think it would take at least a two for the Giants to consider doing so.
I don’t get the ownership love for Saquon and Jones. I really don’t. Neither have won shit here. Is it as superficial as they seem like polite guys who say all the right things about how much they love being a Giant?
RE: It’s clear as day to many here that John has a hard time
that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
You don't get it.
Saquon is not part of the solution here.
He's an injury-prone back who is wearing down. He would be excellent for a contender right now because he has a couple of good years probably left (if he doesn't get hurt again).
So the 2-6 team gets worse? Big fucking deal.
Also agree. He can't us anymore, either this year or ini the future. And ironically, he'd benefit from being traded to contender.
How the Giants handled Saquon in the spring vs now doesn't add up
But let's not pretend the RB position is plug and play. Barkley is by far the most talented back the Giants have had. Replacing him won't be as easy as some people here think.
NFL leading rushers
McCaffery - 1st round
Zach Moss - 3rd round
Etienne - late 1st
Swift - 2nd round
Henry - 2nd round
Mostert - undrafted
Kenneth Walker - 2nd round
James Cook - 2nd round
Bijan Robinson - 1st round
De'Von Achane - 3rd round
Pacheco - 7th round
Kyren Williams - 5th round
Joe Mixon - 2nd round
Breece Hall - 2nd round
Gus Edwards - undrafted
Tony Pollard - 4th round
Saquon Barkley - #2 overall
RE: How the Giants handled Saquon in the spring vs now doesn't add up
It'd be stupid not to. Let's not pretend he's so easily replaceable. They haven't gotten the same level of production from anyone else on the roster for the past 4 years.
The only way I can see hanging onto him this season
is if Schoen is convinced he'll get a better compensatory selection in the spring than he could get in a trade for him now. But after what LW got us, I don't see how SB couldn't net better than what a comp pick would be.
that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
You don't get it.
Saquon is not part of the solution here.
He's an injury-prone back who is wearing down. He would be excellent for a contender right now because he has a couple of good years probably left (if he doesn't get hurt again).
So the 2-6 team gets worse? Big fucking deal.
Also agree. He can't us anymore, either this year or ini the future. And ironically, he'd benefit from being traded to contender.
He can't help us anymore, either this year or in the future.
RE: It’s clear as day to many here that John has a hard time
I was so happy when Saquon was drafted in 2018. Living in State College, PA, I saw what a terrific player he was and the potential to be a game changer. Since the draft in 2018 he has accomplished much with little support. Yet, his injury history is catching up severely. It disturbed me greatly when Mario Williams caught him from behind from a diagonal approach on that 35+ yard run. He is definitely not the same player the Giants drafted. Injuries take their toll. Not tread, but injuries. Too many and all lower body. I hope Schoen continues to trade wisely and trades him for a second round pick. I wish Saquon well. He does not belong with this Giant team. His future is elsewhere.
I don’t get the ownership love for Saquon and Jones. I really don’t. Neither have won shit here. Is it as superficial as they seem like polite guys who say all the right things about how much they love being a Giant?
have you considered that "the love" for jones and barkley from ownership is a figment of the imagination of a hysterical subsection of the fanbase?
Ownership , at least JM likes SB.
SB doesn’t want to leave, so it’s a set up that he should stay.
That said: the offers for an oft injured ,11M contracted RB can not be that high; my guess an optimistic 3rd might be it( which is 65-96) but more likely a 4th(97-128plus comp pick selections) which makes SBs value nominal and at best a likely tool in a trade.
I think if they get a 3rd AND another pick, he gets moved ,with a public statement they hated to trade him and ______, but it was necessary to continue to build a team to get the Giants back to being highly competitive.
Schoen is too smart to do such a thing without some form of nudge from people higher than him. I really have a hard time believing it would be his decision. He seems way too smart for that.
I don’t get the ownership love for Saquon and Jones. I really don’t. Neither have won shit here. Is it as superficial as they seem like polite guys who say all the right things about how much they love being a Giant?
have you considered that "the love" for jones and barkley from ownership is a figment of the imagination of a hysterical subsection of the fanbase?
You might be right. But I do think Mara is overly sentimental when it comes to these two.
Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
I’m not saying this is the correct thought process
But, I wonder if this is being done to avoid a locker room collapse.
Currently it doesn’t appear that the team has quit. As soon as the fan base senses the team has quit, the calls for coaches/managements head become loud enough that it may be hard to ignore.
Schoen/Daboll may be managing the locker room and franchise perception amongst players, with an underlying reason of maintaining a passable product and putting the team in position for a severe embarrassment on field.
How not trading Barkley for a 5th or 6th draft pick, even a 4th which most of “the let s be sellers” advocates have indicated is unlikely , a terrible blow to this franchise
There are 9 games left, they want to complete to the best of their ability. Don’t see how a possible 3 rd day pick is absolutely more important than that
RE: I’m not saying this is the correct thought process
But, I wonder if this is being done to avoid a locker room collapse.
Currently it doesn’t appear that the team has quit. As soon as the fan base senses the team has quit, the calls for coaches/managements head become loud enough that it may be hard to ignore.
Schoen/Daboll may be managing the locker room and franchise perception amongst players, with an underlying reason of maintaining a passable product and putting the team in position for a severe embarrassment on field.
I've thought this as well. Daboll wants to win games and I doubt he wants to move Barkley.
This is what you get when you have an owner who fires coaches every two years.
I don’t get the ownership love for Saquon and Jones. I really don’t. Neither have won shit here. Is it as superficial as they seem like polite guys who say all the right things about how much they love being a Giant?
I was just thinking the other day that I have no idea what kind of team Mara wants to build, what his philosophy is, what his vision for the team is other than he really loves Jones and Barkley.
Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
They are polite kids who don’t cause waves and probably call him Mr. Mara. It literally might be that simple. And I am only half joking.
Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
Hey Kent Graham helped bring us an upset of an outstanding Denver team!
Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
it has nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with the cost of finding replacements - which it's a lot easier to be flippant about when it's not your job on the line next year.
as "easy" as it is to find running backs, in 2 offseasons with 20+ draft picks and about 200m spent on other team's players the best they've found to back up at rb are breida and gray. without barkley you are probably spending a higher pick than whatever you can get back just to hope to find someone comparable with no guarantee they are any more ready to pick up a blitz than gray (like charbonnet or kendre miller or whomever they may haved liked in april) - and that's probably not what you want if you are also contemplating breaking in a rookie qb. in FA you're still paying FA prices for someone even if its not him so then your spending 70% of his cost on a mediocre vet like miles sanders or david montgomery.
im not saying he's untradeable but 1 look at how the CMC return looks today and if it's my decision im pointing to this and saying i need more than that to say yes. a 2nd round pick from a team destined for the playoffs in the mid to late 50's doesn't do as much for me with barkley as it did with williams going on 30 and playing a position with some decent replacements already on the roster.
Schoen has to move on from SB at this point. His value will never be as high for this franchise as it is at this very moment. With injury risk and positional value limitations, the time to sell is right now.
Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
Well there is a little bit of a difference in talent - Joe Montgomery career for the Giants 116 carries for 372 yards whereas Saquon has 1064 carries for 4661 yards.
How not trading Barkley for a 5th or 6th draft pick, even a 4th which most of “the let s be sellers” advocates have indicated is unlikely , a terrible blow to this franchise
There are 9 games left, they want to complete to the best of their ability. Don’t see how a possible 3 rd day pick is absolutely more important than that
Would you trade Tre Hawkins for Saquon Barkley? I wouldn't. Picks matter. What about Jalin Hyatt?
the mindset that the organization owes a damn thing to Saquan. Even his "amazing" rookie year was a down year for Tiki. He might be a good kid but enough already. Who cares if we don't have him the rest of the year since he shouldn't be here next year.
Ownership , at least JM likes SB.
SB doesn’t want to leave, so it’s a set up that he should stay.
That said: the offers for an oft injured ,11M contracted RB can not be that high; my guess an optimistic 3rd might be it( which is 65-96) but more likely a 4th(97-128plus comp pick selections) which makes SBs value nominal and at best a likely tool in a trade.
I think if they get a 3rd AND another pick, he gets moved ,with a public statement they hated to trade him and ______, but it was necessary to continue to build a team to get the Giants back to being highly competitive.
That would be breaking their word and that is something the Giants thank goodness historically never have done going back to The Duke and his Dad Tim Mara.
Ownership , at least JM likes SB.
SB doesn’t want to leave, so it’s a set up that he should stay.
That said: the offers for an oft injured ,11M contracted RB can not be that high; my guess an optimistic 3rd might be it( which is 65-96) but more likely a 4th(97-128plus comp pick selections) which makes SBs value nominal and at best a likely tool in a trade.
I think if they get a 3rd AND another pick, he gets moved ,with a public statement they hated to trade him and ______, but it was necessary to continue to build a team to get the Giants back to being highly competitive.
That would be breaking their word and that is something the Giants thank goodness historically never have done going back to The Duke and his Dad Tim Mara.
I am not sure you are being sarcastic or obtuse.
RE: RE: Barkley is leading the league in rushing since his return from the
ankle. Even though he is behind this makeshift OL and up against the DL of the Jets, Wash, and Buff
Jesus H Christ - at a whopping 3.7 YPC. Do you even understand what you see?
Right now he is like a volume low efficiency scorer for a shit team in the NBA.
JFC yourself. Yes I know what I see, do you? Here's a guy who is generating yards behind crap. Most other RB's wouldn't get half his yards. Do you understand how the offensive line effects the running game? Some of you are so carried away with your crying about the Giants you just bash all the players without knowing what you are talking about.
Barkley is a damn good player. Am I saying I wouldn't trade him for a #2 at the point this team is at, no I am not. Am I saying that a team should use the #2 pick in the NFL draft on a RB, no. I am saying he is a very good player and put on a better team would excel, and I'm getting tired of all the bashing of Barkley, Thibs, and a few other players who are the only guys out there performing and putting in max effort.
Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
it has nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with the cost of finding replacements - which it's a lot easier to be flippant about when it's not your job on the line next year.
as "easy" as it is to find running backs, in 2 offseasons with 20+ draft picks and about 200m spent on other team's players the best they've found to back up at rb are breida and gray. without barkley you are probably spending a higher pick than whatever you can get back just to hope to find someone comparable with no guarantee they are any more ready to pick up a blitz than gray (like charbonnet or kendre miller or whomever they may haved liked in april) - and that's probably not what you want if you are also contemplating breaking in a rookie qb. in FA you're still paying FA prices for someone even if its not him so then your spending 70% of his cost on a mediocre vet like miles sanders or david montgomery.
im not saying he's untradeable but 1 look at how the CMC return looks today and if it's my decision im pointing to this and saying i need more than that to say yes. a 2nd round pick from a team destined for the playoffs in the mid to late 50's doesn't do as much for me with barkley as it did with williams going on 30 and playing a position with some decent replacements already on the roster.
Finding a replacement for Barkley isn't a priority. Running backs are indeed easy to find; CMC isn't a viable comp in any way - he's a much better player and San Francisco acquired him as the finishing piece on a Super Bowl contender.
The Giants need to completely reboot their offense: they don't have a quarterback, the OL is poor, and they have no identity. They're in this position in large part because they've committed so much to Barkley.
Replacing Barkley isn't important. Building an offense based on 2023 best practices is.
RE: RE: RE: Barkley is leading the league in rushing since his return from the
ankle. Even though he is behind this makeshift OL and up against the DL of the Jets, Wash, and Buff
Jesus H Christ - at a whopping 3.7 YPC. Do you even understand what you see?
Right now he is like a volume low efficiency scorer for a shit team in the NBA.
JFC yourself. Yes I know what I see, do you? Here's a guy who is generating yards behind crap. Most other RB's wouldn't get half his yards. Do you understand how the offensive line effects the running game? Some of you are so carried away with your crying about the Giants you just bash all the players without knowing what you are talking about.
Barkley is a damn good player. Am I saying I wouldn't trade him for a #2 at the point this team is at, no I am not. Am I saying that a team should use the #2 pick in the NFL draft on a RB, no. I am saying he is a very good player and put on a better team would excel, and I'm getting tired of all the bashing of Barkley, Thibs, and a few other players who are the only guys out there performing and putting in max effort.
4.4 Career YPC is not exceptional. He is the RB version of a coach killer. We were sold a bill of goods of the next Marhsall Faulk style player. He is not that, and never was. What excuse for the 2 crippling doinks in first 3 weeks killing the team instead of pulling them along. His rookie year is it. It is a lifetime ago.
It's the same tired "face of franchise" schtick... GTFOH with that. He's a declining running back that is solid but no longer spectacular. You can replace his production with other backs on the roster.
either Mara is butting into the the team affairs again and retracing his father's steps OR Schoen is not qualified for the big chair and failing on his own.
Either way I would expect Daboll who's all about passing the ball and a QB whisperer to regard the idea of a RB as the face of the franchise as nuts
Replacing Barkley isn't important. Building an offense based on 2023 best practices is.
"best practices" is a useless buzz phrase.
was spending a top 10 pick on neal best practice?
or spending $5m on parris campbell?
or $18m on glowinski?
or trading a 3rd + 14m/year for 31 year old with soft tissue issues now 3 years in a row?
how many extra wins did they buy with that assortment compared to less than half as much $ on barkley the last 1.5 years?
i dont say any of that to criticize this FO but to point out that finding good players is hard even when you spend good money or use high draft picks or both at the same time. finding good players in real life is a lot harder than you like to pretend it is on paper. a pick in the range of the one used on josh ezeudu isn't worth the only quality skill player they have.
It's the same tired "face of franchise" schtick... GTFOH with that. He's a declining running back that is solid but no longer spectacular. You can replace his production with other backs on the roster.
To qualify. Maybe our backup running backs won't match the exact level of Saquon, but I don't think it will be drastically off and frankly who cares we are 2-6.
The most important thing is to build for the future. The best contribution Saquon can make to this team's future is being a trade chip to help us built a positive one.
who agrees with Schoen I'm sure. Face of the franchise important. Demoralizing an already fading team further is important. Glad they are keeping Barkley.
He's not reliable in short yardage situations; when he gets loose he is caught from behind.
So why would I want to keep him?
I thought last season that Jones and Barkley had a chemistry together that brought out the best in both.
The option play where Jones handed it off to Barkley who went left or kept it and bootlegged it to the right was a hard play for defenses to stop. When they are in the lineup together the team has two running backs who can scoot for 15 or 20 yards.
He also caught 76 passes, most since his rookie year. Although yards per catch were not too exciting, his availability as a dump-off receiver contributed to Jones' lack of turnovers last season.
And he is credited with five fumbles in his career, with the loss of only two. That second lost fumble this season was a disaster, but over his career that stat should not be overlooked, as losing a fumble is such a really bad thing.
It would be giving him away for less than a 2nd round pick.
If Schoen wants to trade Barkley but John insists he refrain
How not trading Barkley for a 5th or 6th draft pick, even a 4th which most of “the let s be sellers” advocates have indicated is unlikely , a terrible blow to this franchise
There are 9 games left, they want to complete to the best of their ability. Don’t see how a possible 3 rd day pick is absolutely more important than that
Would you trade Tre Hawkins for Saquon Barkley? I wouldn't. Picks matter. What about Jalin Hyatt?
I understand that, but wasn’t Hyatt a 3 re round pick
RE: If Schoen wants to trade Barkley but John insists he refrain
you will NEVER know whether John is meddling in this decision.
True, but what was your first reaction to seeing this thread title? If you look from the top, many posters think ownership has their fingerprints all over this thing..
to any offers? Do you really expect him to openly admit to his running back publicly that he is looking to trade him?
We dont know what Schoen is thinking.
im sure for the right offer he would listen, everyone has a price. id imagine his price is meaningfully higher than a late 2nd and id also imagine there arent teams out there willing to pay that (not to mention the cap).
makes so much sense. They are in desperate need of a RB and he would be a perfect fit for their offense.
they were aggressive giving up a 2nd + 5th for roquan last year too. they have 6.7m in cap room so it would be tight but not impossible. not a ton of cap room next so would be a pretty all in move.
think the nyg would need more than the 2 + 5. i do wonder if maybe there's a young guy from wink's time they'd be interested in like odafe? he hasnt played/produced much since his rookie year with wink.
I agree trading him makes little sense. If we are talking about a third rounder or better and they are passing, it is head scratching. The offense sucks with him, might as well suck without him and have additional assets to move up if necessary.
I think it’s also proven out the second contracts for modern nfl running backs rarely work out…
1. Could add ammo to move up in a QB rich draft; this is a good year to have a large volume of picks
2. It saves them from making the error of paying or franchising him this winter
What's the negative? They'll lose games? They've lost 2 out of 3 games since the day he was drafted.
makes so much sense. They are in desperate need of a RB and he would be a perfect fit for their offense.
I'm not sure. Right now, the Ravens are third in the NFL in rushing yard per game. Obviously, LJax influences that.
He currently has 380 yards rushing. Even if you cut that in half, they would still be 10th in the league. Edwards and Hill have been solid. If anything, I think SB could boost their passing game.
I have zero issue trading Barkley, I think they'd be doing him a favor
It would be a win-win. However I hate people diminishing his effort and what he is bringing to the Giants. His YPC are low because he is running behind an OL of guys who should be waiting tables. People yell about giving Jones the benefit of the doubt because of the OL, but not the RB?
I get not liking the pick, but I separate the player from that. Put him on the Ravens or some other team in a real functioning offense, and I think he explodes. It sure worked for McCaffrey. Frankly getting his 1,650 yds last year was an amazing season in this offense that only has him
says the genius dupe who said he wouldn't get tagged this year.
have you already picked out your next handle if he gets tagged again in the offseason? or is that more of a spur of the moment creative process?
I said he shouldn't get tagged this year. If I said he wouldn't get tagged in a post then I simply overstated Schoen's readiness for this job.
And if he gets tagged again, we should start picking out our next candidates for GM because we'll need one.
Charitable work is so rewarding: Save the Spotted Owl > Whales > RB1
Eric, he's right. He did say they should not tag saquon
Quote:
Even more exciting news
chick310 : 1/24/2023 3:50 pm : link
Save the franchise tag for positions with higher value/lower supply.
... - ( New Window )
were any of his previous handles right when they spent the entire 2022 calendar year saying schoen wouldn't tag barkley in 2023?
Any handles saying Schoen shouldn't have tagged Barkley would have been correct.
Patting yourself on the back that you forecasted a poor decision will be made regarding the NYG roster, and were found correct, is quite an achievement. Did you ask your Mom to hang it on that post on the fridge?
to any offers? Do you really expect him to openly admit to his running back publicly that he is looking to trade him?
We dont know what Schoen is thinking.
im sure for the right offer he would listen, everyone has a price. id imagine his price is meaningfully higher than a late 2nd and id also imagine there arent teams out there willing to pay that (not to mention the cap).
Right... but the article seems to imply that Schoen is not interested. Maybe he is not interested in the lousy offers he may have received and NOT that he is not interested in a trade that would make sense.
SB. Wouldn’t be traded? I really don’t see JS cutting his legs out. Besides locker room morale, team culture etc I believe he is viewed as a good player and one of few playmakers on the team
I get that some fans wanna put this season in SIM mode and get to the draft or FA or whatever. But winnng games is still a priority for the players and coaches and FO. You can dream of 24 or 25 but they have to win games to get there.
And IMO not trading 26 indicates to me that JS hopes to bring him back next year. Maybe 1 yr maybe a few. It may or may not work out that way but if there was no way or no hope to have him back there is likely a sufficient offer on the table. 3/4 round.
I feel like JS has a range of what he is willing to spend and is in the ball park. IF SB wants to be a giant he might have to take what’s offered. I would think there is some groundwork already
that can be traded for picks and that includes Barkley. For the Giants to hold on to him in lieu of even a 3rd round pick is foolish.
Now as to Barkley's yards and avg ypa - have any of you actually watched any of the decent to good teams play and the size of the holes opened by those teams' olines? I doubt it from what I am reading. I am not sure I have ever seen multiple defensive players continually in the backfield like I see happen with the Giants. Even other crappy teams' offensive lines are able to open the occasional hole for their RBs. I think it is a minor miracle that Barkley can actually get any yardage at all.
You put him on a team with an NFL avg line and he will be more than effective. I am not sure which contender needs a RB, but if he got to a team that can actually block he would improve their chances of winning games.
And on a side note - I also see almost every other team be able to throw quick slants or outs to gain 3-4 yards when needed. Did you see the Giants even attempt one of those Sunday, even when Taylor was in the game? No because he was smashed the minute he got set.
This is the most inept offense I have seen - the only one worse was the 2021 Giants with Fromm and Glennon.
What is my ultimate point? I do not care if Patrick Mahomes was the QB of this team, they would still be unable to win and Mahomes would be injured. Jones is not the answer at QB, but until something is done with this line nobody will be the answer.
RE: If Schoen wants to trade Barkley but John insists he refrain
this. it’s the only way to save what will otherwise be a short lived GM career.
That would probably get him blackballed. Better to go down with the ship.
But yes, this is obviously not Schoen's decision. Everytime the Maras stick their nose into player personnel decisions, it's usually detrimental to the team.
RE: RE: RE: If Schoen wants to trade Barkley but John insists he refrain
this. it’s the only way to save what will otherwise be a short lived GM career.
That would probably get him blackballed. Better to go down with the ship.
But yes, this is obviously not Schoen's decision. Everytime the Maras stick their nose into player personnel decisions, it's usually detrimental to the team.
I seriously doubt that Mara would "order" Schoen to not trade Barkley. I think that is a non issue.
Why would Schoen take him off the table willingly?
Who said he did? Josina?
How about:
1) He was getting bad offers
2) Wasn't really getting any offers
3) Figures he needs a real RB for next year, especially if they go for a QB in rnd 1. Unlike the mob, I think Barkley is still a very good weapon and perhaps so do Daboll and Schoen.
Just because BBI wants to trade Barkley doesn't mean Schoen and Daboll do...and personally, yes, I would trade him
Let’s say Mara did insist on that, do you think that’s the first time in the history of sports an owner demanded something? Should all of those GMs quit too?
Schoen can quit, and I’d think he’s a little bitch for it. I’m sure most of the league would too. Nothing screams difficult to work with quit like quitting when you don’t get your way, on a decision that isn’t even franchise altering no less.
Why would Schoen take him off the table willingly?
This is the correct question to ask.
What attachment does Joe Schoen have to Saquon Barkley? After forcing him to accept the franchise tag, is there any reason to believe that Joe Schoen believes Barkley to be a valuable long term asset to building a champion?
There's no doubt in my mind that in meetings with his GM, John Mara has clearly voiced the "face of the franchise" opinion. And as the team's owner, he has every right to make those decisions - Joe Schoen answers to him.
We also don't know what's being offered. The optimistic look at the whole idea of saying Barkley isn't available is that perhaps they are trying to maximize the return.
The more likely scenario is that the Giants as an organization don't have the stomach to tell a certain group of fans that Barkley isn't going to be part of a champion here.
Who cares about a "face of the franchise" label when we're on track for another top 10 pick?
And she throws in the word "clear" because it's anything but clear. Any time someone says "clearly" or "obviously" or "we can all agree" it's a preemptive strike because they know it's anything but those things.
They just handed out huge contracts to Jones, Thomas, and Lawrence...
And basically told Barkley to go to hell, but yeah, sure, he's the "clear face" of the franchise.
I agree. Barkley is popular with the fans and media and that’s muddied the perception of what’s happened - he wasn’t given a great offer mid season last year, he was then tagged, and he might get tagged again. In reality it could play out exactly how people that didn’t want him to sign a long term deal hoped it would, but now it means Mara is the puppet master? Doesn’t add up.
Why would Schoen take him off the table willingly?
This is the correct question to ask.
What attachment does Joe Schoen have to Saquon Barkley? After forcing him to accept the franchise tag, is there any reason to believe that Joe Schoen believes Barkley to be a valuable long term asset to building a champion?
There's no doubt in my mind that in meetings with his GM, John Mara has clearly voiced the "face of the franchise" opinion. And as the team's owner, he has every right to make those decisions - Joe Schoen answers to him.
We also don't know what's being offered. The optimistic look at the whole idea of saying Barkley isn't available is that perhaps they are trying to maximize the return.
The more likely scenario is that the Giants as an organization don't have the stomach to tell a certain group of fans that Barkley isn't going to be part of a champion here.
You make some good points.
I think Schoen forced the tag because he had to. Barkley turned down a contract similar to Taylor's a year ago. The Giants wanted to keep him, so the tag was the only option after signing Jones.
As we are so fondly told by some of the BBI faithful, there is no long term rebuild in the NFL. Teams can turn around the following year. So maybe Barkley isn't being looked at for 3 years down the road, but next year and the following are not out of the question.
We agree that offers may not be that good.
I can see fans being upset about Barkley being traded and perhaps that is a small reason to not trade him, but a GM that is afraid to trade a marquis name isn't much of a GM. And yes the owner maybe did ask Schoen not to trade Barkley for a pittance...
If Mara is involved and preventing a trade we are screwed
As we are so fondly told by some of the BBI faithful, there is no long term rebuild in the NFL. Teams can turn around the following year. So maybe Barkley isn't being looked at for 3 years down the road, but next year and the following are not out of the question.
We agree that offers may not be that good.
I can see fans being upset about Barkley being traded and perhaps that is a small reason to not trade him, but a GM that is afraid to trade a marquis name isn't much of a GM. And yes the owner maybe did ask Schoen not to trade Barkley for a pittance...
Yeah it's difficult to know exactly without having an idea of the kind of offers they are getting.
The only thing I'd say about the long term vs. quick rebuild is that it's certainly dependent on the situation. While the trajectory of a franchise can turn around in a single offseason, that still most likely will not result in anything substantive until years 2-3 at the earliest. Let's be honest, if the Giants aren't looking at 2025, we're in deep trouble already.
As it relates to Barkley, given what we know about RBs in this league, does it make sense to pay him $13-14 million AAV in 2024-25 when it's very likely the Giants won't conceivably be any better than a hopeful fringe playoff team?
I have to say I am usually not in the blame Mara camp
but it really does not track that we won't trade Saquon unless we are trying to drive up a bargain. He is simply not a winning player--way too many mistakes--and he is getting up their in the mileage category. To not trade him is malpractice if we got a good offer like a second round pick.
says the genius dupe who said he wouldn't get tagged this year.
have you already picked out your next handle if he gets tagged again in the offseason? or is that more of a spur of the moment creative process?
I said he shouldn't get tagged this year. If I said he wouldn't get tagged in a post then I simply overstated Schoen's readiness for this job.
And if he gets tagged again, we should start picking out our next candidates for GM because we'll need one.
Charitable work is so rewarding: Save the Spotted Owl > Whales > RB1
Eric, he's right. He did say they should not tag saquon
Quote:
Even more exciting news
chick310 : 1/24/2023 3:50 pm : link
Save the franchise tag for positions with higher value/lower supply.
... - ( New Window )
Low YPC this year? Who the hell does he have blocking for him and who is playing QB lately? He gained 128 yards rushing on a team who had NO QB! They would have been better off running the Wildcat
says the genius dupe who said he wouldn't get tagged this year.
have you already picked out your next handle if he gets tagged again in the offseason? or is that more of a spur of the moment creative process?
I said he shouldn't get tagged this year. If I said he wouldn't get tagged in a post then I simply overstated Schoen's readiness for this job.
And if he gets tagged again, we should start picking out our next candidates for GM because we'll need one.
Charitable work is so rewarding: Save the Spotted Owl > Whales > RB1
Eric, he's right. He did say they should not tag saquon
Quote:
Even more exciting news
chick310 : 1/24/2023 3:50 pm : link
Save the franchise tag for positions with higher value/lower supply.
... - ( New Window )
Low YPC this year? Who the hell does he have blocking for him and who is playing QB lately? He gained 128 yards rushing on a team who had NO QB! They would have been better off running the Wildcat
+1. He's also led the NFL in rushing the past 3 weeks behind this OL of misfits and no passing attack, but don't tell anyone it will disturb the "everyone sucks including Barkley" narrative
"Saquon’s last game over 4 YPC was Week 1 & the Giants aren’t taking calls on him despite him being on the franchise tag and missing games in 4 of the last 5 years."
He then follows up by saying he's not necessarily advocating they trade him, but that they should at least explore what they can get!
Josina Anderson has shown zero contacts with this orginization,
except a few on the player side. Wouldn't suprise me if this is coming from Saquons team even.
She knows this will generate clicks for the conspiracy nuts in our fandom that have PTSD from the 70s were ownership was intimately involved with our sucking.
RE: Josina Anderson has shown zero contacts with this orginization,
except a few on the player side. Wouldn't suprise me if this is coming from Saquons team even.
She knows this will generate clicks for the conspiracy nuts in our fandom that have PTSD from the 70s were ownership was intimately involved with our sucking.
Don't have to go back that far to see evidence of ownership involved in our sucking.
Gettlemen picking Saquon at #2 set our franchise back.
this. it’s the only way to save what will otherwise be a short lived GM career.
That would probably get him blackballed. Better to go down with the ship.
But yes, this is obviously not Schoen's decision. Everytime the Maras stick their nose into player personnel decisions, it's usually detrimental to the team.
I seriously doubt that Mara would "order" Schoen to not trade Barkley. I think that is a non issue.
I agree. He saw his dad cut Phil Simms loose. I am sure he learned from that - it's still a business.
And considering how shitty we have displayed this year on offense - if a trade is going to make us better he'd be all for it. And if really liked SB wouldn't it be nice to send him to a potential winner?
Flip side - maybe Schoen wants SB around for the rookie QB next year to lean on.
A lot of factors here, but bottom line, if he gets the right deal he'd be allowed to pull the trigger IMO.
RE: Gettlemen picking Saquon at #2 set our franchise back.
Why on earth wouldn't we move him? How doesn't saquon wake up today and say, I'd love to play for a contender. Not only that, NYG wouldn't be able to tag him again in the offseason. If LW is fetching a 2 + 5, what would a contender pay for saquon?
He's such a core part of the franchise that he was 45 mins from being let go this past offseason is jones got the franchise tag.
Are you sure it's coming from Schoen?..
We'll know when someone posts that the NFL Shop has #26 NYG jerseys on clearance.
lol, i just made this point above. Guy was an hour from being a free agent but now hes a face of the franchise?
Bingo.
It is so strange that it does make one wonder if ownership has said no.
Not being interested in offers now (if true) if egregious.
@jeffphowe
·
11m
Teams have continued to call the Giants about RB Saquon Barkley, but they’ve been told he’s definitely not available, per sources. The Giants were open about this last week, but it hasn’t stopped teams from trying.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
2m
It’s one thing if teams are low-balling, but this can’t be a Gettleman situation with not taking calls on the No. 2 pick
Josina getting that from Barkley's team...
They can always sell Barkley on the fact that they will try to sign him as a FA after a trade this offseason.
Proof that is must be true then :).
because if they franchised DJ they wouldn't have any money to sign anyone else??? Without completely f'ing up the future cap with Leo or Adoree Jackson restructures
They can always sell Barkley on the fact that they will try to sign him as a FA after a trade this offseason.
Sell Barkley? Why do they owe Barkley anything?
The players on the NYG roster the past five years don't deserve any special consideration.
It is so strange that it does make one wonder if ownership has said no.
I resisted the conclusion that John Mara was actively meddling in football operations for a long time. Howvever, as some have pointed out, we are seeing the same old patterns of mismanagement that we've seen from the Giants for a long time now. Many coaches have come and gone, scouts have come and gone, a couple of GMs, many many players....the one constant through this entire dark age has been ownership.
This .... but unless they have a sure fire fix the OL in the offseason he should not be untouchable. If the face of the franchise is that huge a deal .... a player swap of some sort. I will say this he personality is well received outside football. The sentiment "He is such a nice young man his mother must be proud." helps with jersey sales for young kids. Also does not hurt not have the star player plaster for some knucklehead incident over all media channels.
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Bingo.
It is so strange that it does make one wonder if ownership has said no.
I resisted the conclusion that John Mara was actively meddling in football operations for a long time. Howvever, as some have pointed out, we are seeing the same old patterns of mismanagement that we've seen from the Giants for a long time now. Many coaches have come and gone, scouts have come and gone, a couple of GMs, many many players....the one constant through this entire dark age has been ownership.
Just listen to Mara talk. It's clear he's very much involved in all major decisions. Absolutely he's involved in the Barkley decision 100%.
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
She called Kim Jones and got this…sarcasm
I wouldn’t be surprised if they would trade him for a late first or early second.
Probably not going to happen with his salary expectation and injury history.
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that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
You don't get it.
Saquon is not part of the solution here.
He's an injury-prone back who is wearing down. He would be excellent for a contender right now because he has a couple of good years probably left (if he doesn't get hurt again).
So the 2-6 team gets worse? Big fucking deal.
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that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
I'm glad we can agree that he is no longer elite. We also have not attempted to add a #1 RB because Barkley is on the roster.
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Bingo.
It is so strange that it does make one wonder if ownership has said no.
I resisted the conclusion that John Mara was actively meddling in football operations for a long time. Howvever, as some have pointed out, we are seeing the same old patterns of mismanagement that we've seen from the Giants for a long time now. Many coaches have come and gone, scouts have come and gone, a couple of GMs, many many players....the one constant through this entire dark age has been ownership.
There's no reason to believe that anybody else would refer to Barkley as the "face of the franchise".
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In comment 16267929 Jacobs #27 said:
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that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
You don't get it.
Saquon is not part of the solution here.
He's an injury-prone back who is wearing down. He would be excellent for a contender right now because he has a couple of good years probably left (if he doesn't get hurt again).
So the 2-6 team gets worse? Big fucking deal.
No, I agree with everything you said here. They SHOULD trade him.
But let's not pretend the RB position is plug and play. Barkley is by far the most talented back the Giants have had. Replacing him won't be as easy as some people here think.
If the Giants won't listen to offers on Barkley that has to be coming from Mara. You think if a team offered a first for Barkley, Schoen wouldn't take it in a heartbeat?
I am not suggesting that anyone would offer that, but is this a "don't trade him for a 3rd", or "don't trade him at all?"
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that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
So Saquon's 3.6 YPC is the amazing you're looking for?
If you get a decent offer then trade him.
This probably falls under the "ownership thinks this is a hard sell". Garbage.
But it would still be the right move.
If Barkley leaves in free agency in March, this is going to look real stupid.
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The chances that Saquon Barkley is a contributor to the next Giants team that is a real contender is approximately 0.0%. He's clearly lost a few steps already. What's the point of this?
Bingo.
It is so strange that it does make one wonder if ownership has said no.
Agreed. Of course, the question is also what other teams are offering. I'd trade him for a third, but I think it would take at least a two for the Giants to consider doing so.
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In comment 16267929 Jacobs #27 said:
Quote:
that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
You don't get it.
Saquon is not part of the solution here.
He's an injury-prone back who is wearing down. He would be excellent for a contender right now because he has a couple of good years probably left (if he doesn't get hurt again).
So the 2-6 team gets worse? Big fucking deal.
Also agree. He can't us anymore, either this year or ini the future. And ironically, he'd benefit from being traded to contender.
But let's not pretend the RB position is plug and play. Barkley is by far the most talented back the Giants have had. Replacing him won't be as easy as some people here think.
NFL leading rushers
McCaffery - 1st round
Zach Moss - 3rd round
Etienne - late 1st
Swift - 2nd round
Henry - 2nd round
Mostert - undrafted
Kenneth Walker - 2nd round
James Cook - 2nd round
Bijan Robinson - 1st round
De'Von Achane - 3rd round
Pacheco - 7th round
Kyren Williams - 5th round
Joe Mixon - 2nd round
Breece Hall - 2nd round
Gus Edwards - undrafted
Tony Pollard - 4th round
Saquon Barkley - #2 overall
Why? They can franchise him again next season.
But it would still be the right move.
If Barkley leaves in free agency in March, this is going to look real stupid.
And it would look worse if they give him a big contract and he sustains a serious injury in ‘24, which is likely given his history.
If a RB is the face of your franchise, your franchise is going nowhere.
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In comment 16267945 ThreePoints said:
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In comment 16267929 Jacobs #27 said:
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that Barkley is actually an elite running back anymore? Other than how you "feel" about him, or how he "looks," etc. I mean what is the actual evidence that he has been an elite back the last few seasons?
He's not elite, but he's a hell of a lot better than every other RB that's been on the roster in the past 5 years.
Enjoy watching Breida and his amazing 2.6 YPC going forward.
You don't get it.
Saquon is not part of the solution here.
He's an injury-prone back who is wearing down. He would be excellent for a contender right now because he has a couple of good years probably left (if he doesn't get hurt again).
So the 2-6 team gets worse? Big fucking deal.
Also agree. He can't us anymore, either this year or ini the future. And ironically, he'd benefit from being traded to contender.
He can't help us anymore, either this year or in the future.
His father had the same problem, only a little worse.
If a RB is the face of your franchise, your franchise is going nowhere.
This is all Mara IMO. Saquon talks about being a Giant for life…word porn to John.
Er, "an impeccable source..."
Shep sure swings a mean towel though!
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.
Why? They can franchise him again next season.
The only thing dumber than franchising him again next season is signing him to a multi-year deal at similar pricing.
have you considered that "the love" for jones and barkley from ownership is a figment of the imagination of a hysterical subsection of the fanbase?
SB doesn’t want to leave, so it’s a set up that he should stay.
That said: the offers for an oft injured ,11M contracted RB can not be that high; my guess an optimistic 3rd might be it( which is 65-96) but more likely a 4th(97-128plus comp pick selections) which makes SBs value nominal and at best a likely tool in a trade.
I think if they get a 3rd AND another pick, he gets moved ,with a public statement they hated to trade him and ______, but it was necessary to continue to build a team to get the Giants back to being highly competitive.
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I don’t get the ownership love for Saquon and Jones. I really don’t. Neither have won shit here. Is it as superficial as they seem like polite guys who say all the right things about how much they love being a Giant?
have you considered that "the love" for jones and barkley from ownership is a figment of the imagination of a hysterical subsection of the fanbase?
You might be right. But I do think Mara is overly sentimental when it comes to these two.
Wouldn't shock me in the least.
NYG have a revolving door at HC, ASST Coach, GM and player personnel since early 2013.
Currently it doesn’t appear that the team has quit. As soon as the fan base senses the team has quit, the calls for coaches/managements head become loud enough that it may be hard to ignore.
Schoen/Daboll may be managing the locker room and franchise perception amongst players, with an underlying reason of maintaining a passable product and putting the team in position for a severe embarrassment on field.
There are 9 games left, they want to complete to the best of their ability. Don’t see how a possible 3 rd day pick is absolutely more important than that
Currently it doesn’t appear that the team has quit. As soon as the fan base senses the team has quit, the calls for coaches/managements head become loud enough that it may be hard to ignore.
Schoen/Daboll may be managing the locker room and franchise perception amongst players, with an underlying reason of maintaining a passable product and putting the team in position for a severe embarrassment on field.
I've thought this as well. Daboll wants to win games and I doubt he wants to move Barkley.
This is what you get when you have an owner who fires coaches every two years.
I was just thinking the other day that I have no idea what kind of team Mara wants to build, what his philosophy is, what his vision for the team is other than he really loves Jones and Barkley.
They are polite kids who don’t cause waves and probably call him Mr. Mara. It literally might be that simple. And I am only half joking.
Jesus H Christ - at a whopping 3.7 YPC. Do you even understand what you see?
Right now he is like a volume low efficiency scorer for a shit team in the NBA.
Hey Kent Graham helped bring us an upset of an outstanding Denver team!
it has nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with the cost of finding replacements - which it's a lot easier to be flippant about when it's not your job on the line next year.
as "easy" as it is to find running backs, in 2 offseasons with 20+ draft picks and about 200m spent on other team's players the best they've found to back up at rb are breida and gray. without barkley you are probably spending a higher pick than whatever you can get back just to hope to find someone comparable with no guarantee they are any more ready to pick up a blitz than gray (like charbonnet or kendre miller or whomever they may haved liked in april) - and that's probably not what you want if you are also contemplating breaking in a rookie qb. in FA you're still paying FA prices for someone even if its not him so then your spending 70% of his cost on a mediocre vet like miles sanders or david montgomery.
im not saying he's untradeable but 1 look at how the CMC return looks today and if it's my decision im pointing to this and saying i need more than that to say yes. a 2nd round pick from a team destined for the playoffs in the mid to late 50's doesn't do as much for me with barkley as it did with williams going on 30 and playing a position with some decent replacements already on the roster.
Well there is a little bit of a difference in talent - Joe Montgomery career for the Giants 116 carries for 372 yards whereas Saquon has 1064 carries for 4661 yards.
There are 9 games left, they want to complete to the best of their ability. Don’t see how a possible 3 rd day pick is absolutely more important than that
Would you trade Tre Hawkins for Saquon Barkley? I wouldn't. Picks matter. What about Jalin Hyatt?
SB doesn’t want to leave, so it’s a set up that he should stay.
That said: the offers for an oft injured ,11M contracted RB can not be that high; my guess an optimistic 3rd might be it( which is 65-96) but more likely a 4th(97-128plus comp pick selections) which makes SBs value nominal and at best a likely tool in a trade.
I think if they get a 3rd AND another pick, he gets moved ,with a public statement they hated to trade him and ______, but it was necessary to continue to build a team to get the Giants back to being highly competitive.
That would be breaking their word and that is something the Giants thank goodness historically never have done going back to The Duke and his Dad Tim Mara.
There's always Belize.
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Ownership , at least JM likes SB.
SB doesn’t want to leave, so it’s a set up that he should stay.
That said: the offers for an oft injured ,11M contracted RB can not be that high; my guess an optimistic 3rd might be it( which is 65-96) but more likely a 4th(97-128plus comp pick selections) which makes SBs value nominal and at best a likely tool in a trade.
I think if they get a 3rd AND another pick, he gets moved ,with a public statement they hated to trade him and ______, but it was necessary to continue to build a team to get the Giants back to being highly competitive.
That would be breaking their word and that is something the Giants thank goodness historically never have done going back to The Duke and his Dad Tim Mara.
I am not sure you are being sarcastic or obtuse.
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ankle. Even though he is behind this makeshift OL and up against the DL of the Jets, Wash, and Buff
Jesus H Christ - at a whopping 3.7 YPC. Do you even understand what you see?
Right now he is like a volume low efficiency scorer for a shit team in the NBA.
JFC yourself. Yes I know what I see, do you? Here's a guy who is generating yards behind crap. Most other RB's wouldn't get half his yards. Do you understand how the offensive line effects the running game? Some of you are so carried away with your crying about the Giants you just bash all the players without knowing what you are talking about.
Barkley is a damn good player. Am I saying I wouldn't trade him for a #2 at the point this team is at, no I am not. Am I saying that a team should use the #2 pick in the NFL draft on a RB, no. I am saying he is a very good player and put on a better team would excel, and I'm getting tired of all the bashing of Barkley, Thibs, and a few other players who are the only guys out there performing and putting in max effort.
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Being sentimentally attached to Daniel Jones and Saquon Barkley is like being attached to Kent Graham and Joe Montgomery. What the hell are we talking about here?
it has nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with the cost of finding replacements - which it's a lot easier to be flippant about when it's not your job on the line next year.
as "easy" as it is to find running backs, in 2 offseasons with 20+ draft picks and about 200m spent on other team's players the best they've found to back up at rb are breida and gray. without barkley you are probably spending a higher pick than whatever you can get back just to hope to find someone comparable with no guarantee they are any more ready to pick up a blitz than gray (like charbonnet or kendre miller or whomever they may haved liked in april) - and that's probably not what you want if you are also contemplating breaking in a rookie qb. in FA you're still paying FA prices for someone even if its not him so then your spending 70% of his cost on a mediocre vet like miles sanders or david montgomery.
im not saying he's untradeable but 1 look at how the CMC return looks today and if it's my decision im pointing to this and saying i need more than that to say yes. a 2nd round pick from a team destined for the playoffs in the mid to late 50's doesn't do as much for me with barkley as it did with williams going on 30 and playing a position with some decent replacements already on the roster.
Finding a replacement for Barkley isn't a priority. Running backs are indeed easy to find; CMC isn't a viable comp in any way - he's a much better player and San Francisco acquired him as the finishing piece on a Super Bowl contender.
The Giants need to completely reboot their offense: they don't have a quarterback, the OL is poor, and they have no identity. They're in this position in large part because they've committed so much to Barkley.
Replacing Barkley isn't important. Building an offense based on 2023 best practices is.
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In comment 16268135 PatersonPlank said:
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ankle. Even though he is behind this makeshift OL and up against the DL of the Jets, Wash, and Buff
Jesus H Christ - at a whopping 3.7 YPC. Do you even understand what you see?
Right now he is like a volume low efficiency scorer for a shit team in the NBA.
JFC yourself. Yes I know what I see, do you? Here's a guy who is generating yards behind crap. Most other RB's wouldn't get half his yards. Do you understand how the offensive line effects the running game? Some of you are so carried away with your crying about the Giants you just bash all the players without knowing what you are talking about.
Barkley is a damn good player. Am I saying I wouldn't trade him for a #2 at the point this team is at, no I am not. Am I saying that a team should use the #2 pick in the NFL draft on a RB, no. I am saying he is a very good player and put on a better team would excel, and I'm getting tired of all the bashing of Barkley, Thibs, and a few other players who are the only guys out there performing and putting in max effort.
4.4 Career YPC is not exceptional. He is the RB version of a coach killer. We were sold a bill of goods of the next Marhsall Faulk style player. He is not that, and never was. What excuse for the 2 crippling doinks in first 3 weeks killing the team instead of pulling them along. His rookie year is it. It is a lifetime ago.
It's the same tired "face of franchise" schtick... GTFOH with that. He's a declining running back that is solid but no longer spectacular. You can replace his production with other backs on the roster.
If a RB is the face of your franchise, your franchise is going nowhere.
+5000
Exactly
Either way I would expect Daboll who's all about passing the ball and a QB whisperer to regard the idea of a RB as the face of the franchise as nuts
Crazy not to trade him. Order must come from Mara
Replacing Barkley isn't important. Building an offense based on 2023 best practices is.
"best practices" is a useless buzz phrase.
was spending a top 10 pick on neal best practice?
or spending $5m on parris campbell?
or $18m on glowinski?
or trading a 3rd + 14m/year for 31 year old with soft tissue issues now 3 years in a row?
how many extra wins did they buy with that assortment compared to less than half as much $ on barkley the last 1.5 years?
i dont say any of that to criticize this FO but to point out that finding good players is hard even when you spend good money or use high draft picks or both at the same time. finding good players in real life is a lot harder than you like to pretend it is on paper. a pick in the range of the one used on josh ezeudu isn't worth the only quality skill player they have.
says the genius dupe who said he wouldn't get tagged this year.
have you already picked out your next handle if he gets tagged again in the offseason? or is that more of a spur of the moment creative process?
It's the same tired "face of franchise" schtick... GTFOH with that. He's a declining running back that is solid but no longer spectacular. You can replace his production with other backs on the roster.
To qualify. Maybe our backup running backs won't match the exact level of Saquon, but I don't think it will be drastically off and frankly who cares we are 2-6.
The most important thing is to build for the future. The best contribution Saquon can make to this team's future is being a trade chip to help us built a positive one.
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looks they will be working overtime tonight.
says the genius dupe who said he wouldn't get tagged this year.
have you already picked out your next handle if he gets tagged again in the offseason? or is that more of a spur of the moment creative process?
I said he shouldn't get tagged this year. If I said he wouldn't get tagged in a post then I simply overstated Schoen's readiness for this job.
And if he gets tagged again, we should start picking out our next candidates for GM because we'll need one.
Charitable work is so rewarding: Save the Spotted Owl > Whales > RB1
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who agrees with Schoen I'm sure. Face of the franchise important. Demoralizing an already fading team further is important. Glad they are keeping Barkley.
Are you sure it's coming from Schoen?..
Are you sure it's coming from elsewhere?
Idk, rings a bit hollow
He’s the offense for an offense that stinks and has generally stunk for his entire career. Maybe we try building a different kind of offense.
We dont know what Schoen is thinking.
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In comment 16268268 ThomasG said:
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looks they will be working overtime tonight.
says the genius dupe who said he wouldn't get tagged this year.
have you already picked out your next handle if he gets tagged again in the offseason? or is that more of a spur of the moment creative process?
I said he shouldn't get tagged this year. If I said he wouldn't get tagged in a post then I simply overstated Schoen's readiness for this job.
And if he gets tagged again, we should start picking out our next candidates for GM because we'll need one.
Charitable work is so rewarding: Save the Spotted Owl > Whales > RB1
Eric, he's right. He did say they should not tag saquon
chick310 : 1/24/2023 3:50 pm : link
Save the franchise tag for positions with higher value/lower supply.
... - ( New Window )
So why would I want to keep him?
I thought last season that Jones and Barkley had a chemistry together that brought out the best in both.
The option play where Jones handed it off to Barkley who went left or kept it and bootlegged it to the right was a hard play for defenses to stop. When they are in the lineup together the team has two running backs who can scoot for 15 or 20 yards.
He also caught 76 passes, most since his rookie year. Although yards per catch were not too exciting, his availability as a dump-off receiver contributed to Jones' lack of turnovers last season.
And he is credited with five fumbles in his career, with the loss of only two. That second lost fumble this season was a disaster, but over his career that stat should not be overlooked, as losing a fumble is such a really bad thing.
It would be giving him away for less than a 2nd round pick.
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How not trading Barkley for a 5th or 6th draft pick, even a 4th which most of “the let s be sellers” advocates have indicated is unlikely , a terrible blow to this franchise
There are 9 games left, they want to complete to the best of their ability. Don’t see how a possible 3 rd day pick is absolutely more important than that
Would you trade Tre Hawkins for Saquon Barkley? I wouldn't. Picks matter. What about Jalin Hyatt?
I understand that, but wasn’t Hyatt a 3 re round pick
you will NEVER know whether John is meddling in this decision.
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Joe should quit.
you will NEVER know whether John is meddling in this decision.
True, but what was your first reaction to seeing this thread title? If you look from the top, many posters think ownership has their fingerprints all over this thing..
This probably falls under the "ownership thinks this is a hard sell". Garbage.
No problem with your opinion. I don't share it, but it is eminently reasonable.
But you are always such an ass.
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In comment 16268273 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16268268 ThomasG said:
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looks they will be working overtime tonight.
says the genius dupe who said he wouldn't get tagged this year.
have you already picked out your next handle if he gets tagged again in the offseason? or is that more of a spur of the moment creative process?
I said he shouldn't get tagged this year. If I said he wouldn't get tagged in a post then I simply overstated Schoen's readiness for this job.
And if he gets tagged again, we should start picking out our next candidates for GM because we'll need one.
Charitable work is so rewarding: Save the Spotted Owl > Whales > RB1
Eric, he's right. He did say they should not tag saquon
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Even more exciting news
chick310 : 1/24/2023 3:50 pm : link
Save the franchise tag for positions with higher value/lower supply.
... - ( New Window )
were any of his previous handles right when they spent the entire 2022 calendar year saying schoen wouldn't tag barkley in 2023?
We dont know what Schoen is thinking.
im sure for the right offer he would listen, everyone has a price. id imagine his price is meaningfully higher than a late 2nd and id also imagine there arent teams out there willing to pay that (not to mention the cap).
they were aggressive giving up a 2nd + 5th for roquan last year too. they have 6.7m in cap room so it would be tight but not impossible. not a ton of cap room next so would be a pretty all in move.
think the nyg would need more than the 2 + 5. i do wonder if maybe there's a young guy from wink's time they'd be interested in like odafe? he hasnt played/produced much since his rookie year with wink.
I think it’s also proven out the second contracts for modern nfl running backs rarely work out…
2. It saves them from making the error of paying or franchising him this winter
What's the negative? They'll lose games? They've lost 2 out of 3 games since the day he was drafted.
I'm not sure. Right now, the Ravens are third in the NFL in rushing yard per game. Obviously, LJax influences that.
He currently has 380 yards rushing. Even if you cut that in half, they would still be 10th in the league. Edwards and Hill have been solid. If anything, I think SB could boost their passing game.
I get not liking the pick, but I separate the player from that. Put him on the Ravens or some other team in a real functioning offense, and I think he explodes. It sure worked for McCaffrey. Frankly getting his 1,650 yds last year was an amazing season in this offense that only has him
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In comment 16268287 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16268273 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16268268 ThomasG said:
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looks they will be working overtime tonight.
says the genius dupe who said he wouldn't get tagged this year.
have you already picked out your next handle if he gets tagged again in the offseason? or is that more of a spur of the moment creative process?
I said he shouldn't get tagged this year. If I said he wouldn't get tagged in a post then I simply overstated Schoen's readiness for this job.
And if he gets tagged again, we should start picking out our next candidates for GM because we'll need one.
Charitable work is so rewarding: Save the Spotted Owl > Whales > RB1
Eric, he's right. He did say they should not tag saquon
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Even more exciting news
chick310 : 1/24/2023 3:50 pm : link
Save the franchise tag for positions with higher value/lower supply.
... - ( New Window )
were any of his previous handles right when they spent the entire 2022 calendar year saying schoen wouldn't tag barkley in 2023?
Any handles saying Schoen shouldn't have tagged Barkley would have been correct.
Patting yourself on the back that you forecasted a poor decision will be made regarding the NYG roster, and were found correct, is quite an achievement. Did you ask your Mom to hang it on that post on the fridge?
Instead of 2nd and 13 after barkey runs it
Instead of 2nd and 13 after barkey runs it
Yeah, Breida was great at getting positive yardage yesterday. He’s also had his two best years as a Giant, right?
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to any offers? Do you really expect him to openly admit to his running back publicly that he is looking to trade him?
We dont know what Schoen is thinking.
im sure for the right offer he would listen, everyone has a price. id imagine his price is meaningfully higher than a late 2nd and id also imagine there arent teams out there willing to pay that (not to mention the cap).
Right... but the article seems to imply that Schoen is not interested. Maybe he is not interested in the lousy offers he may have received and NOT that he is not interested in a trade that would make sense.
I get that some fans wanna put this season in SIM mode and get to the draft or FA or whatever. But winnng games is still a priority for the players and coaches and FO. You can dream of 24 or 25 but they have to win games to get there.
And IMO not trading 26 indicates to me that JS hopes to bring him back next year. Maybe 1 yr maybe a few. It may or may not work out that way but if there was no way or no hope to have him back there is likely a sufficient offer on the table. 3/4 round.
But it would still be the right move.
If Barkley leaves in free agency in March, this is going to look real stupid.
Now as to Barkley's yards and avg ypa - have any of you actually watched any of the decent to good teams play and the size of the holes opened by those teams' olines? I doubt it from what I am reading. I am not sure I have ever seen multiple defensive players continually in the backfield like I see happen with the Giants. Even other crappy teams' offensive lines are able to open the occasional hole for their RBs. I think it is a minor miracle that Barkley can actually get any yardage at all.
You put him on a team with an NFL avg line and he will be more than effective. I am not sure which contender needs a RB, but if he got to a team that can actually block he would improve their chances of winning games.
And on a side note - I also see almost every other team be able to throw quick slants or outs to gain 3-4 yards when needed. Did you see the Giants even attempt one of those Sunday, even when Taylor was in the game? No because he was smashed the minute he got set.
This is the most inept offense I have seen - the only one worse was the 2021 Giants with Fromm and Glennon.
What is my ultimate point? I do not care if Patrick Mahomes was the QB of this team, they would still be unable to win and Mahomes would be injured. Jones is not the answer at QB, but until something is done with this line nobody will be the answer.
this. it’s the only way to save what will otherwise be a short lived GM career.
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Joe should quit.
this. it’s the only way to save what will otherwise be a short lived GM career.
That would probably get him blackballed. Better to go down with the ship.
But yes, this is obviously not Schoen's decision. Everytime the Maras stick their nose into player personnel decisions, it's usually detrimental to the team.
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In comment 16268356 The_Boss said:
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Joe should quit.
this. it’s the only way to save what will otherwise be a short lived GM career.
That would probably get him blackballed. Better to go down with the ship.
But yes, this is obviously not Schoen's decision. Everytime the Maras stick their nose into player personnel decisions, it's usually detrimental to the team.
I seriously doubt that Mara would "order" Schoen to not trade Barkley. I think that is a non issue.
Who said he did? Josina?
How about:
1) He was getting bad offers
2) Wasn't really getting any offers
3) Figures he needs a real RB for next year, especially if they go for a QB in rnd 1. Unlike the mob, I think Barkley is still a very good weapon and perhaps so do Daboll and Schoen.
Just because BBI wants to trade Barkley doesn't mean Schoen and Daboll do...and personally, yes, I would trade him
Schoen can quit, and I’d think he’s a little bitch for it. I’m sure most of the league would too. Nothing screams difficult to work with quit like quitting when you don’t get your way, on a decision that isn’t even franchise altering no less.
This is the correct question to ask.
What attachment does Joe Schoen have to Saquon Barkley? After forcing him to accept the franchise tag, is there any reason to believe that Joe Schoen believes Barkley to be a valuable long term asset to building a champion?
There's no doubt in my mind that in meetings with his GM, John Mara has clearly voiced the "face of the franchise" opinion. And as the team's owner, he has every right to make those decisions - Joe Schoen answers to him.
We also don't know what's being offered. The optimistic look at the whole idea of saying Barkley isn't available is that perhaps they are trying to maximize the return.
The more likely scenario is that the Giants as an organization don't have the stomach to tell a certain group of fans that Barkley isn't going to be part of a champion here.
I agree. Barkley is popular with the fans and media and that’s muddied the perception of what’s happened - he wasn’t given a great offer mid season last year, he was then tagged, and he might get tagged again. In reality it could play out exactly how people that didn’t want him to sign a long term deal hoped it would, but now it means Mara is the puppet master? Doesn’t add up.
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Why would Schoen take him off the table willingly?
This is the correct question to ask.
What attachment does Joe Schoen have to Saquon Barkley? After forcing him to accept the franchise tag, is there any reason to believe that Joe Schoen believes Barkley to be a valuable long term asset to building a champion?
There's no doubt in my mind that in meetings with his GM, John Mara has clearly voiced the "face of the franchise" opinion. And as the team's owner, he has every right to make those decisions - Joe Schoen answers to him.
We also don't know what's being offered. The optimistic look at the whole idea of saying Barkley isn't available is that perhaps they are trying to maximize the return.
The more likely scenario is that the Giants as an organization don't have the stomach to tell a certain group of fans that Barkley isn't going to be part of a champion here.
You make some good points.
I think Schoen forced the tag because he had to. Barkley turned down a contract similar to Taylor's a year ago. The Giants wanted to keep him, so the tag was the only option after signing Jones.
As we are so fondly told by some of the BBI faithful, there is no long term rebuild in the NFL. Teams can turn around the following year. So maybe Barkley isn't being looked at for 3 years down the road, but next year and the following are not out of the question.
We agree that offers may not be that good.
I can see fans being upset about Barkley being traded and perhaps that is a small reason to not trade him, but a GM that is afraid to trade a marquis name isn't much of a GM. And yes the owner maybe did ask Schoen not to trade Barkley for a pittance...
maybe I am paranoid but I still see the hands of Mara on this roster and on the ability of the GM to make moves.
As we are so fondly told by some of the BBI faithful, there is no long term rebuild in the NFL. Teams can turn around the following year. So maybe Barkley isn't being looked at for 3 years down the road, but next year and the following are not out of the question.
We agree that offers may not be that good.
I can see fans being upset about Barkley being traded and perhaps that is a small reason to not trade him, but a GM that is afraid to trade a marquis name isn't much of a GM. And yes the owner maybe did ask Schoen not to trade Barkley for a pittance...
Yeah it's difficult to know exactly without having an idea of the kind of offers they are getting.
The only thing I'd say about the long term vs. quick rebuild is that it's certainly dependent on the situation. While the trajectory of a franchise can turn around in a single offseason, that still most likely will not result in anything substantive until years 2-3 at the earliest. Let's be honest, if the Giants aren't looking at 2025, we're in deep trouble already.
As it relates to Barkley, given what we know about RBs in this league, does it make sense to pay him $13-14 million AAV in 2024-25 when it's very likely the Giants won't conceivably be any better than a hopeful fringe playoff team?
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In comment 16268273 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16268268 ThomasG said:
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looks they will be working overtime tonight.
says the genius dupe who said he wouldn't get tagged this year.
have you already picked out your next handle if he gets tagged again in the offseason? or is that more of a spur of the moment creative process?
I said he shouldn't get tagged this year. If I said he wouldn't get tagged in a post then I simply overstated Schoen's readiness for this job.
And if he gets tagged again, we should start picking out our next candidates for GM because we'll need one.
Charitable work is so rewarding: Save the Spotted Owl > Whales > RB1
Eric, he's right. He did say they should not tag saquon
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Even more exciting news
chick310 : 1/24/2023 3:50 pm : link
Save the franchise tag for positions with higher value/lower supply.
... - ( New Window )
Low YPC this year? Who the hell does he have blocking for him and who is playing QB lately? He gained 128 yards rushing on a team who had NO QB! They would have been better off running the Wildcat
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In comment 16268287 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16268273 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16268268 ThomasG said:
Quote:
looks they will be working overtime tonight.
says the genius dupe who said he wouldn't get tagged this year.
have you already picked out your next handle if he gets tagged again in the offseason? or is that more of a spur of the moment creative process?
I said he shouldn't get tagged this year. If I said he wouldn't get tagged in a post then I simply overstated Schoen's readiness for this job.
And if he gets tagged again, we should start picking out our next candidates for GM because we'll need one.
Charitable work is so rewarding: Save the Spotted Owl > Whales > RB1
Eric, he's right. He did say they should not tag saquon
Quote:
Even more exciting news
chick310 : 1/24/2023 3:50 pm : link
Save the franchise tag for positions with higher value/lower supply.
... - ( New Window )
Low YPC this year? Who the hell does he have blocking for him and who is playing QB lately? He gained 128 yards rushing on a team who had NO QB! They would have been better off running the Wildcat
+1. He's also led the NFL in rushing the past 3 weeks behind this OL of misfits and no passing attack, but don't tell anyone it will disturb the "everyone sucks including Barkley" narrative
He then follows up by saying he's not necessarily advocating they trade him, but that they should at least explore what they can get!
She knows this will generate clicks for the conspiracy nuts in our fandom that have PTSD from the 70s were ownership was intimately involved with our sucking.
She knows this will generate clicks for the conspiracy nuts in our fandom that have PTSD from the 70s were ownership was intimately involved with our sucking.
Don't have to go back that far to see evidence of ownership involved in our sucking.
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In comment 16268621 The Jake said:
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In comment 16268356 The_Boss said:
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Joe should quit.
this. it’s the only way to save what will otherwise be a short lived GM career.
That would probably get him blackballed. Better to go down with the ship.
But yes, this is obviously not Schoen's decision. Everytime the Maras stick their nose into player personnel decisions, it's usually detrimental to the team.
I seriously doubt that Mara would "order" Schoen to not trade Barkley. I think that is a non issue.
I agree. He saw his dad cut Phil Simms loose. I am sure he learned from that - it's still a business.
And considering how shitty we have displayed this year on offense - if a trade is going to make us better he'd be all for it. And if really liked SB wouldn't it be nice to send him to a potential winner?
Flip side - maybe Schoen wants SB around for the rookie QB next year to lean on.
A lot of factors here, but bottom line, if he gets the right deal he'd be allowed to pull the trigger IMO.
you need to include the phrase - "in my humble opinion" to your post.
I would say failing to build a cohesive offensive line is the thing that set the team back (IMHO) and is still setting them back.