Pickett was DREADFUL on Sunday. I could see the Steelers making a trade for DJ (once recovered) and having him prosper with a good supporting cast, including a defense to give him favorable field position.
Pickett was DREADFUL on Sunday. I could see the Steelers making a trade for DJ (once recovered) and having him prosper with a good supporting cast, including a defense to give him favorable field position.
Agree. That was the final straw. He's regressing and wasn't all that great to start.
Pickett was DREADFUL on Sunday. I could see the Steelers making a trade for DJ (once recovered) and having him prosper with a good supporting cast, including a defense to give him favorable field position.
Pickett was DREADFUL on Sunday. I could see the Steelers making a trade for DJ (once recovered) and having him prosper with a good supporting cast, including a defense to give him favorable field position.
That would be a real holiday miracle if they could get the Steelers to trade for that contract.
Pickett was DREADFUL on Sunday. I could see the Steelers making a trade for DJ (once recovered) and having him prosper with a good supporting cast, including a defense to give him favorable field position.
That would be a real holiday miracle if they could get the Steelers to trade for that contract.
Can't you understand that it takes time to develop a top QB in the NFL? It takes longer than most of you understand. For example:
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
Can't you understand that it takes time to develop a top QB in the NFL? It takes longer than most of you understand. For example:
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
The NFL was a slightly different game for QBs back then no?
Don’t ever compare Kenny Pickett to Eli Manning again. The only thing they have in common is that they both throw with their right arm
Can't you understand that it takes time to develop a top QB in the NFL? It takes longer than most of you understand. For example:
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
Comparing different eras of football, and different purposes of the passing game within those offenses.
Can't you understand that it takes time to develop a top QB in the NFL? It takes longer than most of you understand. For example:
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
Use your eyes don’t just look at numbers. He’s no Eli. That’s laughable.
Can't you understand that it takes time to develop a top QB in the NFL? It takes longer than most of you understand. For example:
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
Eli was number 3 in the league in touchdown throws in his second season.
Pickett was DREADFUL on Sunday. I could see the Steelers making a trade for DJ (once recovered) and having him prosper with a good supporting cast, including a defense to give him favorable field position.
That would be a real holiday miracle if they could get the Steelers to trade for that contract.
If they could get the Steelers to take that contract, I would send Jones along with a 3rd round draft pick for "future consideration."
It's hilarious to hear people write off Pickett in yr 2
After 5 years of excuses, have to evaluate, nonsense, with our guy. And it's many of the same people, I'm sure. Not saying Pickett is any good, but maybe the OC change will do him some good.
Can't you understand that it takes time to develop a top QB in the NFL? It takes longer than most of you understand. For example:
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
Comparing different eras of football, and different purposes of the passing game within those offenses.
Not different eras. Very much the same football as far as offensive percentages of use since 2005. Here's the proof:
I am not saying Pickett is any better than Eli. The point is, is that teams need to give their #1 picks all of the coaching and talent support it can. Link - ( New Window )
Can't you understand that it takes time to develop a top QB in the NFL? It takes longer than most of you understand. For example:
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
The NFL was a slightly different game for QBs back then no?
Don’t ever compare Kenny Pickett to Eli Manning again. The only thing they have in common is that they both throw with their right arm
Can't you understand that it takes time to develop a top QB in the NFL? It takes longer than most of you understand. For example:
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
Eli was number 3 in the league in touchdown throws in his second season.
First of all, so what?
Second, No he wasn't. In 2006, (2nd full season) Eli threw 24 td's which ties him for 4th.
have had fewer total yards every game this year than their opposition. Which is historical.
Yet, they are 6-4. Another testimony to Tomlin's ability to motivate and manage his team.
BTW, I'm not a Pickett guy. But I hope those writing him off aren't members of the DJFC. Those members have completely boxed themselves in from criticizing any young QB.
But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
Good post. The "different eras of football" claim is weak; the eras are not different. Sure, if we were comparing Pickett with Joe Montana, then sure, different eras. Eli did not play in a different era.
And why not compare Pickett 2years in with Eli 2years in? You "never compare Pickett with Eli" people are looking back on Eli's entire career, not Eli's first 2 years.
Bottom line, and the OP is spot on: too many on this board are quick to bail on a young player because they aren't performing in the first 2-3 years in the league. Countless examples exist of players who need 5-6 years before they hit a stride.
Could say the eras aren't different unless you're not interested in knowing how the sport has changed.
If you're an old timer fan then you were around when it was unheard of for a rookie QB or rookie WRs to come in and play well.
Peyton Manning played as a rookie. He was awful. The league was a different place in 1998.
NFLhas trended toward offense and QB-centric philosophy since then. They want it easier for rookie QBs to come in and play because it creates parity and gives you a faster return of investment and that's happened. Just thinking about how many QBs have come in and had immediate success should be enough to give you pause on whether the game has changed or not if you were around when rookies showed up and sat down for 1 or two years before they were allowed to touch a ball.
The OC calling plays for Jones to throw behind the LOS so often to Saquon, Campbell, or whoever was a big joke and a big waste of time.
You might be oversimplifying it. They've been trying to get Jones to take downfield shots since Daboll got here. He's talked at length about getting Jones to trust what he sees and let it go.
Every QB has multiple options on every play. If he's choosing the checkdown, or not seeing the open man, that's not the fault of the coach. They didn't just tell Tommy DeVito, an untested rookie, to throw deep but tell Jones to play conservative. It's instinctive with DeVito, he did it in college, and he's aggressive as a passer.
I don't know what the answer is for sure, but Jones either doesn't see the open man fast enough, or he doubts it, and won't throw it, so he's trying to make something happen with what he sees as 'open'.
The OC calling plays for Jones to throw behind the LOS so often to Saquon, Campbell, or whoever was a big joke and a big waste of time.
You might be oversimplifying it. They've been trying to get Jones to take downfield shots since Daboll got here. He's talked at length about getting Jones to trust what he sees and let it go.
Every QB has multiple options on every play. If he's choosing the checkdown, or not seeing the open man, that's not the fault of the coach. They didn't just tell Tommy DeVito, an untested rookie, to throw deep but tell Jones to play conservative. It's instinctive with DeVito, he did it in college, and he's aggressive as a passer.
I don't know what the answer is for sure, but Jones either doesn't see the open man fast enough, or he doubts it, and won't throw it, so he's trying to make something happen with what he sees as 'open'.
Great rebuttal Ten.
I now agree, Jones lacked the balls to sling it downfield….for whatever reason….but it appeared to me on many of those check downs, he never even looked downfield as if the play was basically a check down to Saquon or Campbell.
I’m not sure who should get the blame- just Jones, just Kafka, or both. I’m reluctant to put it all on Jones, so I’m leaning now toward it could be both.
Could say the eras aren't different unless you're not interested in knowing how the sport has changed.
If you're an old timer fan then you were around when it was unheard of for a rookie QB or rookie WRs to come in and play well.
Peyton Manning played as a rookie. He was awful. The league was a different place in 1998.
NFLhas trended toward offense and QB-centric philosophy since then. They want it easier for rookie QBs to come in and play because it creates parity and gives you a faster return of investment and that's happened. Just thinking about how many QBs have come in and had immediate success should be enough to give you pause on whether the game has changed or not if you were around when rookies showed up and sat down for 1 or two years before they were allowed to touch a ball.
First off, who is mentioning 1998 other than you?
Second, look at the proof I added to my reply. The passing/running play calling is within 1 or 2 % points since 2005.
Third, Who are all of these QB's that have simply come in to the NFL and had immediate success? Name them. Since 2000, only 4 qb's that threw for the most yards in ANY year did not win a SB. All of the others did and had long careers. Your statement is flat out wrong. Look at the list of QB's that were drafted in ANY round (attached link). While there are QB's that mow start and play well overall, the overwhelming majority of guys drafted are not successful.
I wish Daboll had them as well. He should have fired his OL coach , ST coach for sure…. and I’d throw in the OC as well.
The OC calling plays for Jones to throw behind the LOS so often to Saquon, Campbell, or whoever was a big joke and a big waste of time.
Oh please. The Steelers haven’t fired an assistant coach in season since 1941. That’s right. 1941. And they still insisted they weren’t firing anyone until the players started chirping this past week. They had no choice at that point. When you lose the players, it’s over. What big brass balls they have!
Can't you understand that it takes time to develop a top QB in the NFL? It takes longer than most of you understand. For example:
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
20 years ago is the best you can do?
Now do Burrow, Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert, Stroud...
The Steelers make mistakes like every other team in the league
but they also know how to compete, no matter the circumstances. They have had QB & OL issues/injuries as much as any time over the years and all they do is suit up, play hard and put up winning seasons.
Testiment to Mike Tomlin, and a Front Office that is all business and doesn't concern itself all that much with what their fan-base thinks.
RE: RE: I'm not sure how anyone with a straight face
Could say the eras aren't different unless you're not interested in knowing how the sport has changed.
If you're an old timer fan then you were around when it was unheard of for a rookie QB or rookie WRs to come in and play well.
Peyton Manning played as a rookie. He was awful. The league was a different place in 1998.
NFLhas trended toward offense and QB-centric philosophy since then. They want it easier for rookie QBs to come in and play because it creates parity and gives you a faster return of investment and that's happened. Just thinking about how many QBs have come in and had immediate success should be enough to give you pause on whether the game has changed or not if you were around when rookies showed up and sat down for 1 or two years before they were allowed to touch a ball.
First off, who is mentioning 1998 other than you?
Second, look at the proof I added to my reply. The passing/running play calling is within 1 or 2 % points since 2005.
Third, Who are all of these QB's that have simply come in to the NFL and had immediate success? Name them. Since 2000, only 4 qb's that threw for the most yards in ANY year did not win a SB. All of the others did and had long careers. Your statement is flat out wrong. Look at the list of QB's that were drafted in ANY round (attached link). While there are QB's that mow start and play well overall, the overwhelming majority of guys drafted are not successful. Link - ( New Window )
Boiling down the difference in eras to times they call pass vs times they call run is extremely reductive. The differences in eras in the nfl is not just whether they're passing more or not, it's in the structure of offenses as a whole. The increase in RPOs, pick plays, mesh concepts, option routes becoming even more prevalent, etc. It's also the rulebook which essentially hamstrings the tools a defensive back has to play defense vs the pass compared to 20 years ago.
The combination of rules against defense and new tactics to defeat defense makes for a quicker transition from college to pro football.
Just thinking about how many QBs have come in and had immediate success should be enough to give you pause on whether the game has changed or not if you were around when rookies showed up and sat down for 1 or two years before they were allowed to touch a ball.
Ten Ton, what is your definition of "immediate success"? And how would you manage your team's QB situation if after 2 or 3 seasons, your QB (or the team in general) didn't produce the "immediate success" you define?
*I could see the Steelers going out and getting Justin Fields from the Bears in the off-season or perhaps even going after Kirk Cousins.
Agree. That was the final straw. He's regressing and wasn't all that great to start.
I think you're right.
same. i think LSU canned him or at least took away playcalling like 3x quicker than steelers.
That would be a real holiday miracle if they could get the Steelers to trade for that contract.
Quote:
Pickett was DREADFUL on Sunday. I could see the Steelers making a trade for DJ (once recovered) and having him prosper with a good supporting cast, including a defense to give him favorable field position.
That would be a real holiday miracle if they could get the Steelers to trade for that contract.
Maybe they could throw in 2 1st rounders too.
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
The NFL was a slightly different game for QBs back then no?
Don’t ever compare Kenny Pickett to Eli Manning again. The only thing they have in common is that they both throw with their right arm
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
Comparing different eras of football, and different purposes of the passing game within those offenses.
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
Use your eyes don’t just look at numbers. He’s no Eli. That’s laughable.
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
Eli was number 3 in the league in touchdown throws in his second season.
Quote:
Pickett was DREADFUL on Sunday. I could see the Steelers making a trade for DJ (once recovered) and having him prosper with a good supporting cast, including a defense to give him favorable field position.
That would be a real holiday miracle if they could get the Steelers to trade for that contract.
If they could get the Steelers to take that contract, I would send Jones along with a 3rd round draft pick for "future consideration."
Quote:
Can't you understand that it takes time to develop a top QB in the NFL? It takes longer than most of you understand. For example:
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
Comparing different eras of football, and different purposes of the passing game within those offenses.
Not different eras. Very much the same football as far as offensive percentages of use since 2005. Here's the proof:
I am not saying Pickett is any better than Eli. The point is, is that teams need to give their #1 picks all of the coaching and talent support it can.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
Can't you understand that it takes time to develop a top QB in the NFL? It takes longer than most of you understand. For example:
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
The NFL was a slightly different game for QBs back then no?
Don’t ever compare Kenny Pickett to Eli Manning again. The only thing they have in common is that they both throw with their right arm
Yes, lets now throw Sid Luckman into the analysis
Quote:
Can't you understand that it takes time to develop a top QB in the NFL? It takes longer than most of you understand. For example:
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
Eli was number 3 in the league in touchdown throws in his second season.
First of all, so what?
Second, No he wasn't. In 2006, (2nd full season) Eli threw 24 td's which ties him for 4th.
Yet, they are 6-4. Another testimony to Tomlin's ability to motivate and manage his team.
BTW, I'm not a Pickett guy. But I hope those writing him off aren't members of the DJFC. Those members have completely boxed themselves in from criticizing any young QB.
Good post. The "different eras of football" claim is weak; the eras are not different. Sure, if we were comparing Pickett with Joe Montana, then sure, different eras. Eli did not play in a different era.
And why not compare Pickett 2years in with Eli 2years in? You "never compare Pickett with Eli" people are looking back on Eli's entire career, not Eli's first 2 years.
Bottom line, and the OP is spot on: too many on this board are quick to bail on a young player because they aren't performing in the first 2-3 years in the league. Countless examples exist of players who need 5-6 years before they hit a stride.
If you're an old timer fan then you were around when it was unheard of for a rookie QB or rookie WRs to come in and play well.
Peyton Manning played as a rookie. He was awful. The league was a different place in 1998.
NFLhas trended toward offense and QB-centric philosophy since then. They want it easier for rookie QBs to come in and play because it creates parity and gives you a faster return of investment and that's happened. Just thinking about how many QBs have come in and had immediate success should be enough to give you pause on whether the game has changed or not if you were around when rookies showed up and sat down for 1 or two years before they were allowed to touch a ball.
The OC calling plays for Jones to throw behind the LOS so often to Saquon, Campbell, or whoever was a big joke and a big waste of time.
The OC calling plays for Jones to throw behind the LOS so often to Saquon, Campbell, or whoever was a big joke and a big waste of time.
You might be oversimplifying it. They've been trying to get Jones to take downfield shots since Daboll got here. He's talked at length about getting Jones to trust what he sees and let it go.
Every QB has multiple options on every play. If he's choosing the checkdown, or not seeing the open man, that's not the fault of the coach. They didn't just tell Tommy DeVito, an untested rookie, to throw deep but tell Jones to play conservative. It's instinctive with DeVito, he did it in college, and he's aggressive as a passer.
I don't know what the answer is for sure, but Jones either doesn't see the open man fast enough, or he doubts it, and won't throw it, so he's trying to make something happen with what he sees as 'open'.
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The OC calling plays for Jones to throw behind the LOS so often to Saquon, Campbell, or whoever was a big joke and a big waste of time.
You might be oversimplifying it. They've been trying to get Jones to take downfield shots since Daboll got here. He's talked at length about getting Jones to trust what he sees and let it go.
Every QB has multiple options on every play. If he's choosing the checkdown, or not seeing the open man, that's not the fault of the coach. They didn't just tell Tommy DeVito, an untested rookie, to throw deep but tell Jones to play conservative. It's instinctive with DeVito, he did it in college, and he's aggressive as a passer.
I don't know what the answer is for sure, but Jones either doesn't see the open man fast enough, or he doubts it, and won't throw it, so he's trying to make something happen with what he sees as 'open'.
Great rebuttal Ten.
I now agree, Jones lacked the balls to sling it downfield….for whatever reason….but it appeared to me on many of those check downs, he never even looked downfield as if the play was basically a check down to Saquon or Campbell.
I’m not sure who should get the blame- just Jones, just Kafka, or both. I’m reluctant to put it all on Jones, so I’m leaning now toward it could be both.
If you're an old timer fan then you were around when it was unheard of for a rookie QB or rookie WRs to come in and play well.
Peyton Manning played as a rookie. He was awful. The league was a different place in 1998.
NFLhas trended toward offense and QB-centric philosophy since then. They want it easier for rookie QBs to come in and play because it creates parity and gives you a faster return of investment and that's happened. Just thinking about how many QBs have come in and had immediate success should be enough to give you pause on whether the game has changed or not if you were around when rookies showed up and sat down for 1 or two years before they were allowed to touch a ball.
First off, who is mentioning 1998 other than you?
Second, look at the proof I added to my reply. The passing/running play calling is within 1 or 2 % points since 2005.
Third, Who are all of these QB's that have simply come in to the NFL and had immediate success? Name them. Since 2000, only 4 qb's that threw for the most yards in ANY year did not win a SB. All of the others did and had long careers. Your statement is flat out wrong. Look at the list of QB's that were drafted in ANY round (attached link). While there are QB's that mow start and play well overall, the overwhelming majority of guys drafted are not successful.
Link - ( New Window )
The OC calling plays for Jones to throw behind the LOS so often to Saquon, Campbell, or whoever was a big joke and a big waste of time.
Oh please. The Steelers haven’t fired an assistant coach in season since 1941. That’s right. 1941. And they still insisted they weren’t firing anyone until the players started chirping this past week. They had no choice at that point. When you lose the players, it’s over. What big brass balls they have!
Do you go out of your way to be wrong? You're like the Skip Bayless of BBI with your baseless hot takes.
Kenny Pickett stats for the first 2 seasons (incomplete, yes) average this:
61.9 Completion percentage
6.2 yards per attempt (a stat that most scouts and executives put a lot of credence to)
60% W/L percentage so far (13-9)
Last QB picked in the first round of 2022
Versus Eli Manning first 2 years starting a full season
55.1 Completion percentage
6.5 YPA
59% W/L percentage (19/13)
1st overall pick plus trade Philip Rivers and 3 additional draft picks to get him.
I think ANY NFL organization would love to take Eli's resume and apply it to their franchise. Eli Manning was never a top Fantasy QB which I think most of you expect from your starter. Pickett is who he is. Who knows what he'll develop into. But you people calling for his head do not understand player development at all.
By the way, the Steelers are a game out of 1st in the loss column.
20 years ago is the best you can do?
Now do Burrow, Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert, Stroud...
Testiment to Mike Tomlin, and a Front Office that is all business and doesn't concern itself all that much with what their fan-base thinks.
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Could say the eras aren't different unless you're not interested in knowing how the sport has changed.
If you're an old timer fan then you were around when it was unheard of for a rookie QB or rookie WRs to come in and play well.
Peyton Manning played as a rookie. He was awful. The league was a different place in 1998.
NFLhas trended toward offense and QB-centric philosophy since then. They want it easier for rookie QBs to come in and play because it creates parity and gives you a faster return of investment and that's happened. Just thinking about how many QBs have come in and had immediate success should be enough to give you pause on whether the game has changed or not if you were around when rookies showed up and sat down for 1 or two years before they were allowed to touch a ball.
First off, who is mentioning 1998 other than you?
Second, look at the proof I added to my reply. The passing/running play calling is within 1 or 2 % points since 2005.
Third, Who are all of these QB's that have simply come in to the NFL and had immediate success? Name them. Since 2000, only 4 qb's that threw for the most yards in ANY year did not win a SB. All of the others did and had long careers. Your statement is flat out wrong. Look at the list of QB's that were drafted in ANY round (attached link). While there are QB's that mow start and play well overall, the overwhelming majority of guys drafted are not successful. Link - ( New Window )
Boiling down the difference in eras to times they call pass vs times they call run is extremely reductive. The differences in eras in the nfl is not just whether they're passing more or not, it's in the structure of offenses as a whole. The increase in RPOs, pick plays, mesh concepts, option routes becoming even more prevalent, etc. It's also the rulebook which essentially hamstrings the tools a defensive back has to play defense vs the pass compared to 20 years ago.
The combination of rules against defense and new tactics to defeat defense makes for a quicker transition from college to pro football.
Ten Ton, what is your definition of "immediate success"? And how would you manage your team's QB situation if after 2 or 3 seasons, your QB (or the team in general) didn't produce the "immediate success" you define?