and is isn't close. Simms was great, but the Giants usually won with him. Not because of him. The Giants won because of Eli.
Simms threw for 4000 yards back when it really meant something, and he did it throwing to Lionel Manuel, Bobby Johnson, Earnest Gray, and Byron Williams. He never had receivers like Toomer, Burress, Nicks, Smith, Cruz, and Beckham.
I see no significant difference in the rest of the choices provided
I can just see Kerry Collins standing in there and delivering against the 1990 Niners at the stick.
Just kidding, no I can't.
I don't see Hoss lighting up Minnesota for 41-0
Fair. Hoss had his limitations but Collins was the little girl in curls. When he was good, wonderful, when he was bad, run for the hills.
Apples and oranges to an extent but to me Hoss was the more dependable player. Collins was probably the more prolific player though, I will give you that.
That said, If I am playing a big time defense I want no part of Kerry Collins as my QB. Fool me once.
any person even remotely hinting that Dave Brown was equal to Jones, let alone better than Jones, shouldn't be allowed to comment on QBs ever again. Just stop with the bias already. Be objective for the sake of fucking anything holy.
Jones had ONE good year. Jones never had one good month. Cmon guys. Be fair.
Dude threw 30 TD's in 1962 and followed that up with 36 TD's in 1963, throwing for over 3,000 yards in each 14 GAME season - a record that stood until Dan Marino. In those 2 seasons he was the best QB the Giants ever had.
In the modern era, the answer is Eli Manning. Comparing stats, no other Giant QB comes close, and in hindsight, Manning spent half of his career running for his life. Despite heavy criticism from BBI, he still managed to have a HOF career. I miss him, I miss his 4,000 yards per season, I miss the low interception rates.
2. Phil Simms. Simms was frustrating early in his career - like Manning, had awful O-lines and high sack totals but by year 5, Simms was rightfully an All-Pro and toward the end of his career, was amazing - unflappable, super low INT numbers.
Kerry Collins was really good - a breath of fresh air in the dark ages of Giant QB's, a great QB with a rocket arm and frankly, I was pissed the Giants drafted Eli when Collins was still playing very well.
Daniel Jones proved that he could get the job done last season, then seemed to forget everything he proved once this season rolled around. Hopefully, he heals up and gets his head out of his ass in 24'.
Hoss was a great backup who was the right guy in the 90' playoffs, but honestly, an average QB at best.
And let's not speak of the late 90's dark ages...
Dave Brown
Danny Kanell
Kent Graham
with Simms a close second. Hostetler and Collins get honorable mentions (although they were nothing alike as QBs) and the rest were just JAGs. Agree about including Tittle and Conerly. Tarkenton was also certainly better than some of those mentioned, as was Earl Morrall for that matter.
1) Simms
2) Eli (love Eli, but Simms did more with less)
3) Tittle
4) Conerly
5) Collins (Best arm I've ever seen at Giants QB)
6) Tarkington
7) Morrall
8) Hostetler
9) Jones
10) Graham
11) Brown
1. Eli
2. Simms
3. Tarkenton
4. Collins
5. Hostetler
Kurt Warner, Craig Morton and Earl Morral were successful quarterbacks elsewhere who had little impact on Giants success. Everyone else was essentially varying degrees of meh talent...
1) Simms
2) Eli (love Eli, but Simms did more with less)
3) Tittle
4) Conerly
5) Collins (Best arm I've ever seen at Giants QB)
6) Tarkington
7) Morrall
8) Hostetler
9) Jones
10) Graham
11) Brown
___________
If the question is a QB to win the season opener, I would pick Tarkenton who rarely had a stinker game. If the question is a QB to win the Super Bowl, I pick Eli or Simms, pretty much a tossup.
Simms, narrowly over Eli
Manning, completes the top level so draw a line in the sand
Hostetler, easily the best of the rest on Eric's list
Jones, can win games - but titles ?
Collins, could win games but not titles
Graham
Kanell
Brown, apparently never had the support of his team
I'd add in Charlie Conerly and Y.A Tittle after Manning, and Earl Morrell after Hostetler. Craig Morton, Norm Snead, and a few others would slot in below Collins somewhere.
When Simms played, the defense literally tried to kill you. I watched a YouTube of Simms playing the Bears in 1993 and he took hits to the head three plays in a row. No flags.
But Eli has more hardware and longevity so he gets the nod over Phil to start the season.
I’d love to make the ultimate NYG QB out of those names
The cannon arm of Kerry or Graham. The brain and durability of Eli. The legs and athleticism of Jones. The toughness grit and not afraid to get in an opponent’s face of Simms.
Order. But Phil is a close second. Nothing beats the playoff run Eli had or knocking Brady and Patriots into a one loss team in the Super Bowl. Nobody touches that I can think of. Ever.
a lack of love for Hostetler from this organization.
I don't mean judging him on a career basis, but just that one stretch where he came off the bench and swept the table, including two of the biggest wins in the history of the franchise.
At least put him in the circle of honor, or whatever they call it.
Eli played in 72 more games but only played 1 more season then Phil
take Phils 5 best seasons (84-89 not counting 87) avg
3556 yards 55% 18 TDs
vs Elis Career avg
3564 yards 60% 23 TDs
Phil at his peek was close to avg Eli.
I agree with Eli over Simms, but - Eanest Gray, Lionel Manuel and Mark Ingraham vs Toomer, Burress, Cruz, Nick's, OBJ?
Beyond 'Apples to Oranges'.
Different game as well. Simms is my all time favorite Giants offensive player. But he is not close to Eli. Even if he was never injured his peaks were not nearly as high and his valleys were much lower. He was an interception machine for much of his career. I think people's memories are rosier than reality. And again I love Phil. Eli will be in the hall of fame. No one seriously considers Phil in that conversation.
As much as I don't like Jones, I don't think I can put him below Dave Brown for the last spot.
Agree on Simms. I remember John Madden discussing what he'd want in a QB. He used current players as a composite and he had Simms listed for his "heart."
think i go jones bc he's at least got the mobility. collins was a sitting duck and an INT machine, though he was supremely durable. that one is a close call. odds are kerry will end up with the better career thanks to his durability unless jones has a good second act like alex smith or tannehill, but for starting a season healthy i think id take jones.
Eli Manning
Phil Simms
Daniel Jones
Kerry Collins
Jeff Hostetler
Danny Kanell
Kent Graham
Dave Brown
the bottom 3 were obviously career backups (or worse in Browns case). ranking them above any of the middle 3 is crazy. on their best day none of them had the capacity to do what kerry did vs MIN/SF or Jones did vs MIN or what Hostetler did in '90 in postseason.
RE: Simms also played in a far tougher environment for QBs
In the '80s, it was very rare for a QB to throw for 4000 yards. Now, it's routine.
Yep it's impossible to truly compare stats from today to then. Not even worth it. As you said, Simms played in the best division in sports history, that's not hyperbole. It was that good. Eli had his own badge of honor with clutch play and taking down some titans in the postseason.
Simms was hurt by injuries. Eli wasn't. Both had their strengths and weaknesses. IF I had to choose I am simply going the safer route, Eli. But I'd feel comfortable with either.
and Simms wasn't. I do, however, wonder if Eli would have been as much of an ironman if he had played in that era. I don't know if you all have noticed this, but defenders could beat the daylights out of quarterbacks back then in a way that would draw a rain of yellow flags today.
Eli played in 72 more games but only played 1 more season then Phil
take Phils 5 best seasons (84-89 not counting 87) avg
3556 yards 55% 18 TDs
vs Elis Career avg
3564 yards 60% 23 TDs
Phil at his peek was close to avg Eli.
I agree with Eli over Simms, but - Eanest Gray, Lionel Manuel and Mark Ingraham vs Toomer, Burress, Cruz, Nick's, OBJ?
Beyond 'Apples to Oranges'.
I get the he had better weapons theory but I contend that Eli made all of his receivers better. None of those players has put up equal stats somewhere else.
Then think of the other guys he made look good.
Steve Smith
Jake Ballard
Martelus Bennet
Maningham
Collins
Hofstetter
I see no significant difference in the rest of the choices provided
Kerry Collins
Phil Simms
Jeff Hostetler
Dimes
Danny kanell
Kent Graham
Dave Brown
Hoss
Collins
Hofstetter
I see no significant difference in the rest of the choices provided
I can just see Kerry Collins standing in there and delivering against the 1990 Niners at the stick.
Just kidding, no I can't.
As much as I don't like Jones, I don't think I can put him below Dave Brown for the last spot.
Phil Simms
Kerry Collins
Daniel Jones
Jeff Hostetler
Dave Brown
Danny Kanell
Kent Graham
Eli
Quote:
Simms
Collins
Hofstetter
I see no significant difference in the rest of the choices provided
I can just see Kerry Collins standing in there and delivering against the 1990 Niners at the stick.
Just kidding, no I can't.
I don't see Hoss lighting up Minnesota for 41-0
Simms
Collins
Hostetler
Jones
Graham
Kanell
Brown
Rating them all
Simms
Eli
Hostetler
Collins (but I really like him)
Jones
Graham
Kanell
Brown
Eli
Um, it clearly says to rate in order of preference....
Simms
Collins
Hostetler
Jones
Graham
Kanell
Brown
Agree with this list. And to answer Eric's question more directly it would be Eli without hesitation, as much as I loved Phil Simms.
Rating them all
Simms
Eli
Hostetler
Collins (but I really like him)
Jones
Graham
Kanell
Brown
This would be my view too. (My wife wants Jesse Palmer on a write in)
Simms threw for 4000 yards back when it really meant something, and he did it throwing to Lionel Manuel, Bobby Johnson, Earnest Gray, and Byron Williams. He never had receivers like Toomer, Burress, Nicks, Smith, Cruz, and Beckham.
Simms
Simms
Eli
DJ
Collins
Kanell
K. Graham
D. Brown
Quote:
In comment 16304990 logman said:
Quote:
Simms
Collins
Hofstetter
I see no significant difference in the rest of the choices provided
I can just see Kerry Collins standing in there and delivering against the 1990 Niners at the stick.
Just kidding, no I can't.
I don't see Hoss lighting up Minnesota for 41-0
Fair. Hoss had his limitations but Collins was the little girl in curls. When he was good, wonderful, when he was bad, run for the hills.
Apples and oranges to an extent but to me Hoss was the more dependable player. Collins was probably the more prolific player though, I will give you that.
That said, If I am playing a big time defense I want no part of Kerry Collins as my QB. Fool me once.
Jones had ONE good year. Jones never had one good month. Cmon guys. Be fair.
Having said that.......
Simms
Eli
Collins
then blah
2. Simms
3. Hostetler
4. Collins
5. Jones
6. Graham
7. Kanell
8. Brown
In the modern era, the answer is Eli Manning. Comparing stats, no other Giant QB comes close, and in hindsight, Manning spent half of his career running for his life. Despite heavy criticism from BBI, he still managed to have a HOF career. I miss him, I miss his 4,000 yards per season, I miss the low interception rates.
2. Phil Simms. Simms was frustrating early in his career - like Manning, had awful O-lines and high sack totals but by year 5, Simms was rightfully an All-Pro and toward the end of his career, was amazing - unflappable, super low INT numbers.
Kerry Collins was really good - a breath of fresh air in the dark ages of Giant QB's, a great QB with a rocket arm and frankly, I was pissed the Giants drafted Eli when Collins was still playing very well.
Daniel Jones proved that he could get the job done last season, then seemed to forget everything he proved once this season rolled around. Hopefully, he heals up and gets his head out of his ass in 24'.
Hoss was a great backup who was the right guy in the 90' playoffs, but honestly, an average QB at best.
And let's not speak of the late 90's dark ages...
Dave Brown
Danny Kanell
Kent Graham
2. Simms (VERY close between him and Eli. Coin flip)
3. Hostetler
4. Collins
5. Graham
6. Brown
7. Jones
8. Kanell
2. Phil Simms
3. Kerry Collins
4. Jeff Hostetler
5. Daniel Jones
6. Danny Kanell
7. Kent Graham
8. Dave Brown
You could also throw Kurt Warner into the mix. Peak Warner (not Giants Warner...) is very likely as good as Manning.
Simms
Hostetler
Jones
Meh
I'll take the worst of the two time SB MVPs, please.
Tittle
Conerly
Tarkington
I'll take the worst of the two time SB MVPs, please.
Eric did ask to "rate the NYG quarterbacks in order of preference".
Tittle
Conerly
Tarkington
Agree with this
Simms
Gap
Hostetler
Collins
Jones
Graham
Brown
Kannel
Although I am pretty agnostic with the last three, and Jones could still move down depending on the rest of his career.
2) Eli (love Eli, but Simms did more with less)
3) Tittle
4) Conerly
5) Collins (Best arm I've ever seen at Giants QB)
6) Tarkington
7) Morrall
8) Hostetler
9) Jones
10) Graham
11) Brown
Phil Simms
Kerry Collins
Jeff Hostetler
Daniel Jones
Danny Kanell
Kent Graham
Dave Brown
2. Simms
3. Tarkenton
4. Collins
5. Hostetler
Kurt Warner, Craig Morton and Earl Morral were successful quarterbacks elsewhere who had little impact on Giants success. Everyone else was essentially varying degrees of meh talent...
2. Simms
3. Hostetler
4. Collins
5. Jones
6. Graham
7. Kanell
8. Brown
Agree with this.
2) Eli (love Eli, but Simms did more with less)
3) Tittle
4) Conerly
5) Collins (Best arm I've ever seen at Giants QB)
6) Tarkington
7) Morrall
8) Hostetler
9) Jones
10) Graham
11) Brown
If the question is a QB to win the season opener, I would pick Tarkenton who rarely had a stinker game. If the question is a QB to win the Super Bowl, I pick Eli or Simms, pretty much a tossup.
Manning
Collins
Hostetler
Jones
Kanell
Graham
Brown
Manning, completes the top level so draw a line in the sand
Hostetler, easily the best of the rest on Eric's list
Jones, can win games - but titles ?
Collins, could win games but not titles
Graham
Kanell
Brown, apparently never had the support of his team
I'd add in Charlie Conerly and Y.A Tittle after Manning, and Earl Morrell after Hostetler. Craig Morton, Norm Snead, and a few others would slot in below Collins somewhere.
When Simms played, the defense literally tried to kill you. I watched a YouTube of Simms playing the Bears in 1993 and he took hits to the head three plays in a row. No flags.
But Eli has more hardware and longevity so he gets the nod over Phil to start the season.
I don't mean judging him on a career basis, but just that one stretch where he came off the bench and swept the table, including two of the biggest wins in the history of the franchise.
At least put him in the circle of honor, or whatever they call it.
Kerry
Hoss
Simms
Gap
Hostetler
Collins
Jones
Graham
Brown
Kannel
Although I am pretty agnostic with the last three, and Jones could still move down depending on the rest of his career.
Eli
small gap
Simms
small gap
Hostetler (people forget what he did with the Raiders after he left)
Collins
Gap
Gap
Gap
the rest of the turds in the list.
Collins
Jeff Hostetler
Kent Graham
Daniel Jones
Danny Kanell
Dave Brown
Eli played in 72 more games but only played 1 more season then Phil
take Phils 5 best seasons (84-89 not counting 87) avg
3556 yards 55% 18 TDs
vs Elis Career avg
3564 yards 60% 23 TDs
Phil at his peek was close to avg Eli.
Eli played in 72 more games but only played 1 more season then Phil
take Phils 5 best seasons (84-89 not counting 87) avg
3556 yards 55% 18 TDs
vs Elis Career avg
3564 yards 60% 23 TDs
Phil at his peek was close to avg Eli.
Beyond 'Apples to Oranges'.
Quote:
Simms was only other choice but its not close
Eli played in 72 more games but only played 1 more season then Phil
take Phils 5 best seasons (84-89 not counting 87) avg
3556 yards 55% 18 TDs
vs Elis Career avg
3564 yards 60% 23 TDs
Phil at his peek was close to avg Eli.
I agree with Eli over Simms, but - Eanest Gray, Lionel Manuel and Mark Ingraham vs Toomer, Burress, Cruz, Nick's, OBJ?
Beyond 'Apples to Oranges'.
Different game as well. Simms is my all time favorite Giants offensive player. But he is not close to Eli. Even if he was never injured his peaks were not nearly as high and his valleys were much lower. He was an interception machine for much of his career. I think people's memories are rosier than reality. And again I love Phil. Eli will be in the hall of fame. No one seriously considers Phil in that conversation.
Phil Simms
Jeff Hostetler
Kerry Collins
Danny Kanell
Tommy DeVito
Daniel Jones
Kent Graham
Dave Brown
As much as I don't like Jones, I don't think I can put him below Dave Brown for the last spot.
Agree on Simms. I remember John Madden discussing what he'd want in a QB. He used current players as a composite and he had Simms listed for his "heart."
Eli Manning
Phil Simms
Daniel Jones
Kerry Collins
Jeff Hostetler
Danny Kanell
Kent Graham
Dave Brown
the bottom 3 were obviously career backups (or worse in Browns case). ranking them above any of the middle 3 is crazy. on their best day none of them had the capacity to do what kerry did vs MIN/SF or Jones did vs MIN or what Hostetler did in '90 in postseason.
Yep it's impossible to truly compare stats from today to then. Not even worth it. As you said, Simms played in the best division in sports history, that's not hyperbole. It was that good. Eli had his own badge of honor with clutch play and taking down some titans in the postseason.
Simms was hurt by injuries. Eli wasn't. Both had their strengths and weaknesses. IF I had to choose I am simply going the safer route, Eli. But I'd feel comfortable with either.
Jeff Hostetler
Kerry Collins
Daniel Jones
Kent Graham
Danny Kanell
Dave Brown
Quote:
Simms was only other choice but its not close
Eli played in 72 more games but only played 1 more season then Phil
take Phils 5 best seasons (84-89 not counting 87) avg
3556 yards 55% 18 TDs
vs Elis Career avg
3564 yards 60% 23 TDs
Phil at his peek was close to avg Eli.
I agree with Eli over Simms, but - Eanest Gray, Lionel Manuel and Mark Ingraham vs Toomer, Burress, Cruz, Nick's, OBJ?
Beyond 'Apples to Oranges'.
I get the he had better weapons theory but I contend that Eli made all of his receivers better. None of those players has put up equal stats somewhere else.
Then think of the other guys he made look good.
Steve Smith
Jake Ballard
Martelus Bennet
Maningham