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Mike Garafolo: NYG still want Wink to be their DC

Anakim : 1/10/2024 8:49 am
Mike Garafolo
@MikeGarafolo
Meanwhile, the #Giants have not begun a search for a new defensive coordinator and don't plan to do so as of right now, sources say. They want Wink Martindale to be their DC unless and until he resigns. So the standoff continues.
such a circus  
Jints in Carolina : 1/10/2024 8:50 am : link
.
Of course they are  
figgy2989 : 1/10/2024 8:50 am : link
Because they want him to resign on their terms. Wink will not be back next year and the longer this draws out, the more it will hurt Wink from finding another position.

Again, bottom 5 defense and this guy thinks he is the second coming of Buddy Ryan.
This is now embarrassing  
Sean : 1/10/2024 8:50 am : link
You want this hot head to STILL be DC after all this?
I wonder if they are somehow  
Jint Fan in Buc Land : 1/10/2024 8:51 am : link
obligated to say they aren't looking in order to keep the contract enforced
They aren't serious, they are just calling his bluff...  
islander1 : 1/10/2024 8:52 am : link
and good for them.
it's just theater at this point  
Greg from LI : 1/10/2024 8:53 am : link
They are maintaining the fiction that his exit will be entirely on his own accord.
RE: This is now embarrassing  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/10/2024 8:53 am : link
In comment 16357328 Sean said:
Quote:
You want this hot head to STILL be DC after all this?


No. They don’t. They just don’t want to fire him.
RE: This is now embarrassing  
UConn4523 : 1/10/2024 8:54 am : link
In comment 16357328 Sean said:
Quote:
You want this hot head to STILL be DC after all this?


No, they are taking the high road with the media. It’s winks move.
here  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 8:54 am : link
comes the public posturing
Honestly  
Jripper4201 : 1/10/2024 8:54 am : link
Stranger things have happened. Maybe they just need to sit down and had it out like adults.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/10/2024 8:54 am : link
Off-seasons are more entertaining than the regular season.
This is Pat Hanlon pulling strings  
Ben in Tampa : 1/10/2024 8:55 am : link
I’m SHOCKED it was Garafolo who got the scoop. /s

Giants are unleashing their full media savvy on Wink right now.
This is a PR stunt at this point  
JoeyBigBlue : 1/10/2024 8:55 am : link
They want to force Martindale’s hand to resign. They don’t want to fire him and pay him his money, and let him choose his next destination. (Philadelphia).
some posters  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 8:56 am : link
on this thread get it.
They're playing hardball  
logman : 1/10/2024 8:56 am : link
As they should.

Wink tried to manipulate a situation where he could get out and get paid, and they're calling his bluff.
BTW  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 8:57 am : link
I may be dead wrong, but I don't see how this prevents the team from reaching out to other DC prospects right now. What they say publicly is not what they are doing privately.
As the world turns  
chiro56 : 1/10/2024 8:59 am : link
Geez
_____________  
I am Ninja : 1/10/2024 8:59 am : link
Why can this franchise never just be fucking normal?
Don't see that happening, but they're  
Simms11 : 1/10/2024 8:59 am : link
playing hard ball now. Either shit or get off the pot. You're not getting fired you blowhard!
I'd like to see them starting interviewing DC's  
Sean : 1/10/2024 9:00 am : link
So hopefully this charade is over soon.
RE: _____________  
knowledgetimmons : 1/10/2024 9:05 am : link
In comment 16357354 I am Ninja said:
Quote:
Why can this franchise never just be fucking normal?


It might have something to do with NYC market and the media there. Just a hunch.
This is just posturing for a potential future  
LW_Giants : 1/10/2024 9:06 am : link
Legal battle. They don’t want him to be their DC but if they say anything else he can argue he was effectively fired and try and collect on his contract and go where he wants.

This will get worked out in a separation agreement, will just take some time for all sides to realize they need to give a little to get a little.
Another wrinkle. This is getting more and more absurd  
Ira : 1/10/2024 9:06 am : link
.
Theyre forcing Wink's bluff  
Sammo85 : 1/10/2024 9:06 am : link
to call his hand. They know he doesn't want to come back here .
I doubt they want him back. This is all legal  
Blue21 : 1/10/2024 9:07 am : link
crap going on now. We still like you and want you back Wink. The Wilkens Bros were the problem not you. Balls in your court now Wink. You playing or not. If not give me the ball back and go home . It's a forfeit. We win.
RE: Another wrinkle. This is getting more and more absurd  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 9:07 am : link
In comment 16357368 Ira said:
Quote:
.


It's not "getting more absurd"... this is the same position they were taking yesterday. It's just being reiterated today.

They are calling Wink's bluff.
What a joke  
TyreeHelmet : 1/10/2024 9:07 am : link
Garafolo is such a Giants mouthpiece. They don’t want Wink back.
RE: BTW  
Giantimistic : 1/10/2024 9:08 am : link
In comment 16357350 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I may be dead wrong, but I don't see how this prevents the team from reaching out to other DC prospects right now. What they say publicly is not what they are doing privately.


They may have already decided that they have their in house candidate in place and under contract. They may feel no need to rush if Patterson or Henderson is the plan.
He’s under contract  
RetroJint : 1/10/2024 9:08 am : link
He’s not an at will hire . Therefore his resignation doesn’t have to be accepted . The Giants could, for example , allow him to negotiate with other teams with the expectation that they receive 2 #2s in the draft .

My guess: The twins blew Daboll in to Glazer. Either at Wink’s direction or maybe they did it on their own. Daboll is big on keeping these matters in house . This is as it should be. Note that Giant players who air grievances on social media aren’t around for too long.

Daboll fired the twins after he asked them if they were the source . Wink went berserk when he found out . Too bad. He’s not the HC. Go try to find an HC job. So let him know via certified mail that if he doesn’t resume his contractual responsibilities he will be suspended without pay, fined and have his health benefits revoked .
public chess  
Burt64 : 1/10/2024 9:09 am : link
by the Giants now, calling the bluff. good. I would bet behind the scenes they are looking for an new DC, ahem sorry a new "Outside Linebacker Coach" to replace Wilkins, "wink wink" with no pun intended.
2 things can be true  
Chris684 : 1/10/2024 9:09 am : link
Good on the Giants for playing hardball with Wink who definitely seems like the asshole here but there are usually 2 sides to every story.

And also, this situation does not benefit the Giants overall. Things can be perceived or taken the wrong way in league circles, coordinator circles and perhaps this could scare talent away. On top of the fact there is now a ton of legitimate business to conduct this offseason like figuring out the QB, the OL, Barkley/McKinney. A Daboll pissing match with Wink is not high on the list.
Giantimistic  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 9:09 am : link
Yup. My guess is it would be Henderson if they stay in-house, given his age. The DL coach has also had some health issues.
RE: here  
Spider56 : 1/10/2024 9:10 am : link
In comment 16357340 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
comes the public posturing


Correction … here comes the legal posturing. The continuation of a well documented trail showing the Giants are continuing BAU.

If the Winkieleaks are true and can be proven, he’ll be on the defensive .. no pun.
Contrary to most  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 9:10 am : link
I think this actually pretty entertaining.

If they can't give me an 11-6 season, I'll take the soap opera.
the only  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 9:11 am : link
thing that would make this better is if Taylor Swift and Kelce somehow get involved.
 
christian : 1/10/2024 9:11 am : link
What this indicates is the Giants don't have the contractual tools to both fire and prohibit Martindale from going to a division rival. If they had those tools, this would be over.

I suspect they need him to resign for a work prohibition clause to trigger.

They probably feel they have a good case to fire him with cause and withhold the money, but then he would be free to join any team he pleases.

Their leverage is the money. This will come down to the Giants paying his salary in exchange for not joining a rival.
RE: Contrary to most  
LW_Giants : 1/10/2024 9:12 am : link
In comment 16357384 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think this actually pretty entertaining.

If they can't give me an 11-6 season, I'll take the soap opera.


Totally agree. In a season that was over within 5 games, this is far more fun
...  
ryanmkeane : 1/10/2024 9:12 am : link
I'd be shocked if Daboll went with Henderson as the DC.
ryanmkeane  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 9:14 am : link
It seemed odd once when the Bengals hired former Giants DB coach Lou Anarumo for their DC too.
It’s all a game until someone blinks  
Essex : 1/10/2024 9:15 am : link
Wink wants his freedom and guaranteed top dollar at next location which this contract offers him

The giants don’t want to pay him top dollar as another team piggybacks on it and they don’t want him going in division.

I think Wink will blink first as long as he gets his money (meaning another team can hire him and the giants have to make up difference).
RE: Contrary to most  
Chris684 : 1/10/2024 9:16 am : link
In comment 16357384 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think this actually pretty entertaining.

If they can't give me an 11-6 season, I'll take the soap opera.


Hell at this point, if I'm John Mara why not just punch in the nuclear code and say all of you pack your shit.

That would really provide some entertainment.
RE: What a joke  
Joey in VA : 1/10/2024 9:17 am : link
In comment 16357373 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Garafolo is such a Giants mouthpiece. They don’t want Wink back.
Not even close to true.
It’s all about the game and how you play it.  
leatherneck570 : 1/10/2024 9:18 am : link
And they’re saying exactly what they should be saying at this point for the ongoing negotiations with Wink’s agent for his release and for PR.
RE: It’s all a game until someone blinks  
logman : 1/10/2024 9:18 am : link
In comment 16357396 Essex said:
Quote:
I think Wink will blink first as long as he gets his money (meaning another team can hire him and the giants have to make up difference).


How is this Wink blinking first? This appears to be exactly what he wants.
It’s all about negotiations now between Wink’s agent and Schoen  
Rick in Dallas : 1/10/2024 9:18 am : link
Meanwhile I hope Daboll is working diligently on getting a OL and ST coach. Very important steps in this offseason.
RE: BTW  
Mike in Prescott : 1/10/2024 9:18 am : link
In comment 16357350 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I may be dead wrong, but I don't see how this prevents the team from reaching out to other DC prospects right now. What they say publicly is not what they are doing privately.


Agree. At the very least I expect they are doing their in-house scouting/talks with internal candidates.
Plausible deniability...  
Jan in DC : 1/10/2024 9:19 am : link
nice.
RE: RE: It’s all a game until someone blinks  
Essex : 1/10/2024 9:20 am : link
In comment 16357404 logman said:
Quote:
In comment 16357396 Essex said:


Quote:


I think Wink will blink first as long as he gets his money (meaning another team can hire him and the giants have to make up difference).



How is this Wink blinking first? This appears to be exactly what he wants.


My take is that for Wink it is about money and for the Giants it is about where he is going to go. If I am wrong and its about money for both, it will eventually be solved with some negotiation of a middle ground.
I tend  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 9:21 am : link
to agree with Joey... Schwartz has been the team's mouthpiece, not Garafolo.

That all said, I assume most of you know this, but teams and agents use the media for their own purposes.

There is a PR/legal battle going on here right now.

People are reaching out to people to form narratives.
Is Pat Hanlon outside Winks house holding up a radio  
Rich_Houston_1971 : 1/10/2024 9:21 am : link
and playing a Peter Gabriel song?
Great start to the offseason  
The_Boss : 1/10/2024 9:21 am : link
This is like a sitcom at this point.
Mike in Prescott  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 9:22 am : link
the only fly in the ointment would be the fear that someone like Henderson could tell Wink. So maybe not. I'm just spitballing.
The PR piece is important  
leatherneck570 : 1/10/2024 9:22 am : link
All these leaks have to be hurting Wink’s chances of landing with a contender. No one wants a DC that goes rogue and uses the media to manipulate the team.
RE: RE: RE: It’s all a game until someone blinks  
logman : 1/10/2024 9:23 am : link
In comment 16357410 Essex said:
Quote:

My take is that for Wink it is about money and for the Giants it is about where he is going to go. If I am wrong and its about money for both, it will eventually be solved with some negotiation of a middle ground.


I would agree that I don't think the money is the big issue. I don't think they would have a problem paying him to sit on his ass for a year. It's letting him go elsewhere, regardless of where it is, in 2024, without them getting something in return, that they probably have an issue with. That return could be the money or it could be draft compensation.
RE: Contrary to most  
Justlurking : 1/10/2024 9:23 am : link
In comment 16357384 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think this actually pretty entertaining.

If they can't give me an 11-6 season, I'll take the soap opera.


yeah seriously. zero issues with this at this juncture. in season they kept it under wraps and actually performed better post rift.
RE: the only  
truebluelarry : 1/10/2024 9:27 am : link
In comment 16357385 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
thing that would make this better is if Taylor Swift and Kelce somehow get involved.

Hahahaha!
Best laugh I've had all week.
RE: Mike in Prescott  
section125 : 1/10/2024 9:27 am : link
In comment 16357418 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
the only fly in the ointment would be the fear that someone like Henderson could tell Wink. So maybe not. I'm just spitballing.


What prevents them from looking at and even hiring a new DC? Where does it say that teams can only have 1 DC?

They could always go with the meaningless DC/AssistHC. Yes it would cost $1.5 mill extra.
...  
christian : 1/10/2024 9:29 am : link
It's obvious counsel has advised Daboll and Schoen to say they expect Martindale back any time anyone asks, whether publicly or privately. This is good legal advice.

The Giants seem intent on preventing Martindale from going to a rival, and the only way that seems possible is if Martindale resigns.
The more i'm hearing on this  
cjac : 1/10/2024 9:30 am : link
i'm starting to think Wilkins leaked the rift to Glazer, Daboll/Schoen fires him after the season, Wink gets pissed off and says "fuck you fire me too" and they just said "nope, you'll have to quit"
RE: ...  
Essex : 1/10/2024 9:33 am : link
In comment 16357444 christian said:
Quote:
It's obvious counsel has advised Daboll and Schoen to say they expect Martindale back any time anyone asks, whether publicly or privately. This is good legal advice.

The Giants seem intent on preventing Martindale from going to a rival, and the only way that seems possible is if Martindale resigns.


The first press conference at 8:30 on Monday I think bears this out. My take was they wanted to get on top of this because they knew it was going to get nasty, They can fire Wilkins, but they knew they couldn't have Wink without Wilkins. Wilkins from what is reported is Wink's brain and the person who sets up the exoctic blitz packages.
RE: RE: Another wrinkle. This is getting more and more absurd  
sb from NYT Forum : 1/10/2024 9:33 am : link
In comment 16357372 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 16357368 Ira said:


Quote:


.



It's not "getting more absurd"... this is the same position they were taking yesterday. It's just being reiterated today.

They are calling Wink's bluff.


It's actually a smart decision by the Giants. Martindale can't talk to any other team because if any other team speaks with him, they will be tampering.
RE: ...  
leatherneck570 : 1/10/2024 9:34 am : link
In comment 16357444 christian said:
Quote:
It's obvious counsel has advised Daboll and Schoen to say they expect Martindale back any time anyone asks, whether publicly or privately. This is good legal advice.

The Giants seem intent on preventing Martindale from going to a rival, and the only way that seems possible is if Martindale resigns.


This. I’ve worked with Employee Relations enough to know that this is a standard response to this type of situation.
...  
christian : 1/10/2024 9:34 am : link
In comment 16357438 section125 said:
Quote:
What prevents them from looking at and even hiring a new DC? Where does it say that teams can only have 1 DC?

They could always go with the meaningless DC/AssistHC. Yes it would cost $1.5 mill extra.


Nothing precludes them from parking Martindale and hiring someone else to do the job.

But what high pedigree coach is going to break ranks with the fraternity of coaches and be scab over the top of Martindale, or even want to enter a messy situation?

There will be good, clean, easy positions open.
RE: BTW  
Mayo2JZ : 1/10/2024 9:39 am : link
In comment 16357350 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I may be dead wrong, but I don't see how this prevents the team from reaching

out to other DC prospects right now. What they say publicly is not what they are doing privately.


And we will never know which is how it should be until the new DC is announced
...  
christian : 1/10/2024 9:39 am : link
I posted this last night, the architect and heavy hitter in this is Hernandez. He had the rep the rep as an absolute dog when he was with McCarter. The Giants will play this right.
RE: The more i'm hearing on this  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 9:39 am : link
In comment 16357446 cjac said:
Quote:
i'm starting to think Wilkins leaked the rift to Glazer, Daboll/Schoen fires him after the season, Wink gets pissed off and says "fuck you fire me too" and they just said "nope, you'll have to quit"


See my write-up on the front page. I've been told that is fairly accurate.
Maybe Wink just needed to let some steam off?  
SomeFan : 1/10/2024 9:41 am : link
Could this really be true though? I have doubts though they probably did want him to stay two days ago.
I agree, this is all posturing in the stand off  
UberAlias : 1/10/2024 9:41 am : link
But what I'm more curious to know is, how is the team moving forward with the usual season close out stuff? I imagine they're moving forward without Wink, but there are duties specific to the DC in all that. Who is taking on that role? That's what I'd like to know. It may be our best indication about the internal candidates.
Also  
SomeFan : 1/10/2024 9:43 am : link
If Giants begin looking for a DC, does that possibly impact their position that he was not fired? May be a facts and circumstances firing in that case.
RE: Maybe Wink just needed to let some steam off?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 9:43 am : link
In comment 16357481 SomeFan said:
Quote:
Could this really be true though? I have doubts though they probably did want him to stay two days ago.


No, both sides don't want that. There is stuff going on and people know more than they are saying.
Not sure if this was discussed but  
robbieballs2003 : 1/10/2024 9:43 am : link
this basically sounds like they would be okay with promoting someone like Henderson to DC. It is one thing to say he's under contract and still look for his replacement. It is another thing to say you want him as your DC meaning you will be behind the 8 ball if you keep waiting to interview DC candidates.
Thread title not great IMO  
Heisenberg : 1/10/2024 9:43 am : link
Not starting the search is not the same as wanting him back.
So doesn’t Wink call their bluff and show up for work?  
SomeFan : 1/10/2024 9:44 am : link
What would Giants do then?
RE: So doesn’t Wink call their bluff and show up for work?  
Rich_Houston_1971 : 1/10/2024 9:45 am : link
In comment 16357492 SomeFan said:
Quote:
What would Giants do then?


Probably a Come to Jesus meeting with Mara and the other Parties
RE: Not sure if this was discussed but  
SomeFan : 1/10/2024 9:45 am : link
In comment 16357489 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
this basically sounds like they would be okay with promoting someone like Henderson to DC. It is one thing to say he's under contract and still look for his replacement. It is another thing to say you want him as your DC meaning you will be behind the 8 ball if you keep waiting to interview DC candidates.
agree, that was my thought too. If they start actively looking, it may be bad for their position that he was not fired.
RE: RE: here  
Mayo2JZ : 1/10/2024 9:45 am : link
In comment 16357382 Spider56 said:
Quote:
In comment 16357340 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


comes the public posturing





Correction … here comes the legal posturing. The continuation of a well documented trail showing the Giants are continuing BAU.

If the Winkieleaks are true and can be proven, he’ll be on the defensive .. no pun.


What does BAU mean?
RE: So doesn’t Wink call their bluff and show up for work?  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 9:45 am : link
In comment 16357492 SomeFan said:
Quote:
What would Giants do then?


That's when things would get super juicy.

Enter Taylor Swift, our new senior defensive coordinator.
this is all pretty entertaining  
Dave on the UWS : 1/10/2024 9:47 am : link
Its all PR stuff and will play out not in Wink's favor.
I agree with Eric that the team is probably using back channels to look into replacements.
At least, this keeps me engaged.
Dave  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 9:48 am : link
Problem I have is that I have a million things to do to update the website. And yet I keep refreshing the Forum every 30 seconds to learn the latest!
RE: So doesn’t Wink call their bluff and show up for work?  
ThomasG : 1/10/2024 9:48 am : link
In comment 16357492 SomeFan said:
Quote:
What would Giants do then?


OMG, please let that happen.

It would be like Housewives from East Rutherford NJ
 
christian : 1/10/2024 9:48 am : link
Team Wink 100% has already indicated to the Giants counsel he's ready to return to work.

Today either ends in a good faith resolution, or a game of chicken.
RE: Is Pat Hanlon outside Winks house holding up a radio  
Mayo2JZ : 1/10/2024 9:50 am : link
In comment 16357416 Rich_Houston_1971 said:
Quote:
and playing a Peter Gabriel song?


Hahaha good one!
If Wink doesn't show up to work he should be suspended without pay  
Metnut : 1/10/2024 9:50 am : link
just like would happen to the rest of us.
The question is, what happens if Wink does nothing  
Section331 : 1/10/2024 9:51 am : link
but hand out in FL? I’m sure at some point he would be expected to show up for team meetings, and if he doesn’t, they can fire him for cause, but how long would that take?

I understand what the Giants are doing here, but there are ways that Wink can string things along that could seriously handicap how the Giants move forward. Given that Wink’s Giants career is almost certainly over, they could miss out on the opportunity to interview the better DC candidates.

I guess make sure that Henderson and Patterson are resigned for next year, and one of them can become the DC if no better candidates are left, but yeah, what a shitshow.
.  
robbieballs2003 : 1/10/2024 9:52 am : link


Well, just a second there, professor. We, uh, we fixed the *glitch*. So he won't be receiving a paycheck anymore, so it'll just work itself out ...
RE: This is Pat Hanlon pulling strings  
Section331 : 1/10/2024 9:53 am : link
In comment 16357344 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
I’m SHOCKED it was Garafolo who got the scoop. /s

Giants are unleashing their full media savvy on Wink right now.


Yeah, and as Eric pointed out yesterday, be very concerned if Pat Hanlon is the one pulling the strings here. My guess (hope?) is that he’s simply carrying out Schoen’s orders.
RE: BTW  
Section331 : 1/10/2024 9:55 am : link
In comment 16357350 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I may be dead wrong, but I don't see how this prevents the team from reaching out to other DC prospects right now. What they say publicly is not what they are doing privately.


I think they’d have to do it very privately. I would think that any conversations with a DC candidate could be grounds for termination of Wink’s contract.
RE: RE: What a joke  
Blue21 : 1/10/2024 9:55 am : link
In comment 16357402 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 16357373 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


Garafolo is such a Giants mouthpiece. They don’t want Wink back.

Not even close to true.
I m sure he knows it but wants to add the drama to it. Plus Giants want him to sound like they do for legal purposes and PR purposes. He s playing along..
......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 1/10/2024 9:55 am : link
Wink playing checkers, while the gmen playing chess here.

Wink marches out with his "24" clipboard, while Gmen drill down into the language of the contract

Very laughable.
RE: RE: What a joke  
US1 Giants : 1/10/2024 9:56 am : link
In comment 16357402 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 16357373 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


Garafolo is such a Giants mouthpiece. They don’t want Wink back.

Not even close to true.


Their lawyers probably told them to pretend to still want Wink.
RE: RE: BTW  
robbieballs2003 : 1/10/2024 9:57 am : link
In comment 16357526 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 16357350 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I may be dead wrong, but I don't see how this prevents the team from reaching out to other DC prospects right now. What they say publicly is not what they are doing privately.



I think they’d have to do it very privately. I would think that any conversations with a DC candidate could be grounds for termination of Wink’s contract.


There is also a code amongst coaches though. It is a bad look to be interviewing for a job that isn't open. Other than that, nothing is really stopping them.
Wink needs to pull the George Costanza  
Stu11 : 1/10/2024 9:57 am : link
and just waltz into the next off season meeting and be like "wait, you thought I was serious when i said I quit?"
RE: RE: RE: Another wrinkle. This is getting more and more absurd  
Mayo2JZ : 1/10/2024 9:58 am : link
In comment 16357454 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 16357372 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 16357368 Ira said:


Quote:


.



It's not "getting more absurd"... this is the same position they were taking yesterday. It's just being reiterated today.

They are calling Wink's bluff.



It's actually a smart decision by the Giants. Martindale can't talk to any other team because if any other team speaks with him, they will be tampering.


But I’m sure teams do this ALL THE TIME. There is no way to know what is going on “behind the scenes” and extremely difficult to prove tampering charges unless it’s so obvious. If it were, there would be a plethora of tampering charges each year.
_____________  
I am Ninja : 1/10/2024 9:59 am : link
I would think there's a competitive advantage to having an intimate familiarity with the other teams defensive coordinator.
RE: the only  
Section331 : 1/10/2024 9:59 am : link
In comment 16357385 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
thing that would make this better is if Taylor Swift and Kelce somehow get involved.


Trade Wink for Kelce and maybe a DC to be named later? Taylor would look better in Giant blue.
 
christian : 1/10/2024 10:03 am : link
I can right the lead paragraph right now.

Quote:
After a tense 48 hours that saw now former Giants defensive coordinator Wink Martindale storm out of a meeting with head coach Brian Daboll, both sides have come to an agreement. Martindale will resign and receive his full $3 million dollar salary for 2024 in exchange for not being able to coach for an NFC East division rival.

Despite leading a disappointing 26th ranked defense last season, the 60-year-old Martindale is a highly respected coach, and instilled enough fear in his former team, they maneuvered around the prospect of not facing him twice a year.
BAU  
JonC : 1/10/2024 10:03 am : link
= business as usual.

MG is not an NYG mouthpiece, pay attention.
RE: .  
Mayo2JZ : 1/10/2024 10:05 am : link
In comment 16357519 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:


Well, just a second there, professor. We, uh, we fixed the *glitch*. So he won't be receiving a paycheck anymore, so it'll just work itself out ...


Hahaha outstanding!!
RE: RE: RE: Another wrinkle. This is getting more and more absurd  
Section331 : 1/10/2024 10:06 am : link
In comment 16357454 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 16357372 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 16357368 Ira said:


Quote:


.



It's not "getting more absurd"... this is the same position they were taking yesterday. It's just being reiterated today.

They are calling Wink's bluff.



It's actually a smart decision by the Giants. Martindale can't talk to any other team because if any other team speaks with him, they will be tampering.


True, but there are ways around it. Wink’s agents can talk to other teams about other clients of theirs, and then ask on the sly, “are you in the market for a DC? Asking for a friend.”
RE: ......  
christian : 1/10/2024 10:07 am : link
In comment 16357530 CoughlinHandsonHips said:
Quote:
Wink playing checkers, while the gmen playing chess here.

Wink marches out with his "24" clipboard, while Gmen drill down into the language of the contract

Very laughable.


They haven't pulled off a queen's gambit if they pay him most or all of his salary and he's the defensive coordinator of his hometown Bengals in two weeks.

I'm not calling a victory quite yet.
RE: .  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 10:11 am : link
In comment 16357519 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:


Well, just a second there, professor. We, uh, we fixed the *glitch*. So he won't be receiving a paycheck anymore, so it'll just work itself out ...


LOL
RE: RE: What a joke  
TyreeHelmet : 1/10/2024 10:15 am : link
In comment 16357402 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 16357373 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


Garafolo is such a Giants mouthpiece. They don’t want Wink back.

Not even close to true.


You think the Giants want Wink back? Or that Garafolo isn’t a mouthpiece for the Giants?
Wake me when this is over.  
Manhattan : 1/10/2024 10:15 am : link
.
RE: Wink needs to pull the George Costanza  
BH28 : 1/10/2024 10:17 am : link
In comment 16357536 Stu11 said:
Quote:
and just waltz into the next off season meeting and be like "wait, you thought I was serious when i said I quit?"


I said in another thread this reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George reused to leave Play Now and they kept trying more absurd ways to try and get George to quit and he refused.

Wink after breaking into his boarded up office at Giants stadium: Hello Margerie, Wink Martindale. How are ya sweetheart. Listen could you give Mr. Daboll a message for me...If he needs me, tell him I'M IN MY OFFICE!
Yes  
bronxboy : 1/10/2024 10:18 am : link
continue with a terrible defense. Run D 31st in yards per carry against. Next year we could go for 32nd.
Sorry, MG, I don't buy that at all  
David B. : 1/10/2024 10:18 am : link
If Daboll wanted Wink back, he wouldn't have fired the brothers or let Wink out of the building.
Read the Schwartz article on this  
JonC : 1/10/2024 10:19 am : link
there's your main NYG mouthpiece on the topic.
they have been making a list of replacements since glazer story  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2024 10:24 am : link
this is the coach speak version of legal speak to maintain the leverage that wink is violating the terms of his contract, they arent.

if wink comes back ill eat my words and this will have been a colossal mess of stupidity, but until then i suspect this will go as long as wink is acting stupid. which may be a while since he's probably already sunk his prospects for most other jobs and as that reality dawns on him there may be more of the 'anger' and 'denial' stages.

if he hasnt agreed to a deal by the point where they need to act on their preferred replacement they will move on to re-assigning or suspending him, probably him with pay, sideline him for the year, and then hire someone else.
RE: The question is, what happens if Wink does nothing  
Jim in Tampa : 1/10/2024 10:26 am : link
In comment 16357516 Section331 said:
Quote:
but hang out in FL? I’m sure at some point he would be expected to show up for team meetings, and if he doesn’t, they can fire him for cause, but how long would that take?

I understand what the Giants are doing here, but there are ways that Wink can string things along that could seriously handicap how the Giants move forward. Given that Wink’s Giants career is almost certainly over, they could miss out on the opportunity to interview the better DC candidates.

I guess make sure that Henderson and Patterson are resigned for next year, and one of them can become the DC if no better candidates are left, but yeah, what a shitshow.

I have to believe that not showing up for work (whether it's a team meeting, practice or even a game) would be something that voided Wink's contract, without further compensation.

Think about it. I doubt the team lawyers drew up a contract that would allow a coach to not quit, but then also not show up for team meetings... and expect to be compensated for the remaining year on his contract.
RE: Thread title not great IMO  
Anakim : 1/10/2024 10:27 am : link
In comment 16357491 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Not starting the search is not the same as wanting him back.


"They want Wink Martindale to be their DC unless and until he resigns."
RE: Read the Schwartz article on this  
Optimus-NY : 1/10/2024 10:28 am : link
In comment 16357614 JonC said:
Quote:
there's your main NYG mouthpiece on the topic.


+1
...  
Optimus-NY : 1/10/2024 10:29 am : link
RE: RE: The question is, what happens if Wink does nothing  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2024 10:33 am : link
In comment 16357628 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16357516 Section331 said:


Quote:


but hang out in FL? I’m sure at some point he would be expected to show up for team meetings, and if he doesn’t, they can fire him for cause, but how long would that take?

I understand what the Giants are doing here, but there are ways that Wink can string things along that could seriously handicap how the Giants move forward. Given that Wink’s Giants career is almost certainly over, they could miss out on the opportunity to interview the better DC candidates.

I guess make sure that Henderson and Patterson are resigned for next year, and one of them can become the DC if no better candidates are left, but yeah, what a shitshow.


I have to believe that not showing up for work (whether it's a team meeting, practice or even a game) would be something that voided Wink's contract, without further compensation.

Think about it. I doubt the team lawyers drew up a contract that would allow a coach to not quit, but then also not show up for team meetings... and expect to be compensated for the remaining year on his contract.


every you said, except id imagine whatever option they choose involves them retaining his rights. so if he's not showing up to work id imagine they are within their rights to just suspend him if they cant fire him without letting him go to a divisional competitor.
Wink could show up Like in that Better Call Saul Episode  
Rich_Houston_1971 : 1/10/2024 10:34 am : link
with different colored suits, a guitar, and not flush the toilet in the bathroom to force a firing
RE: This is now embarrassing  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/10/2024 10:35 am : link
In comment 16357328 Sean said:
Quote:
You want this hot head to STILL be DC after all this?

I mentioned this yesterday, but it would seem that NYG are being careful to not create a "constructive discharge" scenario for Wink.
RE: RE: _____________  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/10/2024 10:38 am : link
In comment 16357364 knowledgetimmons said:
Quote:
In comment 16357354 I am Ninja said:


Quote:


Why can this franchise never just be fucking normal?



It might have something to do with NYC market and the media there. Just a hunch.

The NYC market isn't that unique, nor is the NYC sports media. The Giants have long been irrelevant to any other segment of the NYC media anyway.

This isn't about environmental factors, IMO. It's about Wink being a lunatic and the Giants being exceedingly deliberate in their response.
RE: RE: ......  
SomeFan : 1/10/2024 10:42 am : link
In comment 16357570 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16357530 CoughlinHandsonHips said:


Quote:


Wink playing checkers, while the gmen playing chess here.

Wink marches out with his "24" clipboard, while Gmen drill down into the language of the contract

Very laughable.



They haven't pulled off a queen's gambit if they pay him most or all of his salary and he's the defensive coordinator of his hometown Bengals in two weeks.

I'm not calling a victory quite yet.
I am sure Wink or his agent has gotten a lawyer by now.
RE: RE: This is now embarrassing  
SomeFan : 1/10/2024 10:43 am : link
In comment 16357646 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16357328 Sean said:


Quote:


You want this hot head to STILL be DC after all this?


I mentioned this yesterday, but it would seem that NYG are being careful to not create a "constructive discharge" scenario for Wink.
Agree and actively looking for a DC would give one the impression of a constructive discharge.
This is nothing more than a highly visible  
Matt in SGS : 1/10/2024 10:47 am : link
exit package & non-compete negotiation that happens every day in corporate America that doesn't get the press views that you see because it's an NFL team.

Wink got his stories out for a couple months painting Daboll as the bad guy. Planted leaks to try to force his firing so he can collect & choose his next job, and ding Daboll for fun. Giants kept quiet, Daboll included, through the season to try to at least keep it in house (arguing over pizza). Wink looked every bit the Buddy Ryan coaching tree to the end, with the juvenile "24 hour" stunt on his playcall sheet. He is daring the Giants to fire him.

So the Giants are now going on the offensive and calling his bluff.

However, the longer this drags out, it actually hurts both sides. This will end up a legal issue at some point if the Giants look to fill his position while he's still in it, which is why Garafolo was given this info. No one wants Wink back, especially Wink.

What is going to happen, IMO, Wink's agents and the Giants will finalize his exit package. He will get his money. He will not be allowed to coach in the NFC East unless it's for a HC job (good luck). Now, maybe they play hardball and tell him to sit on a beach in Florida in his compression sleeves all 2024, but I think that's part of the negotiation.

This is all public posturing to get to an agreed upon non-compete. Like I said, welcome to Corporate America.
I saw a bunch of  
Lines of Scrimmage : 1/10/2024 10:47 am : link
posters saying Daboll was the hot head during the season but only very recently have I seen that said about Wink. Perhaps a case of a hothead creating another one.

HC who had a hard time managing a strong personality. I think he loses respect from some of the players over this and doubt they like how this is playing out.

He can overcome it but it is just another challenge to a growing list going into next season.
RE: RE: RE: _____________  
BH28 : 1/10/2024 10:48 am : link
In comment 16357649 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16357364 knowledgetimmons said:


Quote:


In comment 16357354 I am Ninja said:


Quote:


Why can this franchise never just be fucking normal?



It might have something to do with NYC market and the media there. Just a hunch.


The NYC market isn't that unique, nor is the NYC sports media. The Giants have long been irrelevant to any other segment of the NYC media anyway.

This isn't about environmental factors, IMO. It's about Wink being a lunatic and the Giants being exceedingly deliberate in their response.


Deliberate would be firing him. If Wink is a lunatic and comes back to work, he's essentially called the Giants bluff. Maybe they are extremely confident that their position will ultimately be successful, but it still seems like an unnecessary risk.
RE: This is nothing more than a highly visible  
SomeFan : 1/10/2024 10:49 am : link
In comment 16357668 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
exit package & non-compete negotiation that happens every day in corporate America that doesn't get the press views that you see because it's an NFL team.

Wink got his stories out for a couple months painting Daboll as the bad guy. Planted leaks to try to force his firing so he can collect & choose his next job, and ding Daboll for fun. Giants kept quiet, Daboll included, through the season to try to at least keep it in house (arguing over pizza). Wink looked every bit the Buddy Ryan coaching tree to the end, with the juvenile "24 hour" stunt on his playcall sheet. He is daring the Giants to fire him.

So the Giants are now going on the offensive and calling his bluff.

However, the longer this drags out, it actually hurts both sides. This will end up a legal issue at some point if the Giants look to fill his position while he's still in it, which is why Garafolo was given this info. No one wants Wink back, especially Wink.

What is going to happen, IMO, Wink's agents and the Giants will finalize his exit package. He will get his money. He will not be allowed to coach in the NFC East unless it's for a HC job (good luck). Now, maybe they play hardball and tell him to sit on a beach in Florida in his compression sleeves all 2024, but I think that's part of the negotiation.

This is all public posturing to get to an agreed upon non-compete. Like I said, welcome to Corporate America.
how can we be sure of the assumptions in your second paragraph?
who cares about any drama  
djm : 1/10/2024 10:53 am : link
hire the best DC for the job. If wink is that guy (this is subject to debate but it's fair to say he is) and he likes to blast fucking showtunes in the locker room and sing metallica songs wh9ile giving the entire team the middle finger? Who the fuck cares. Just do your fucking job.

Whether WInk truly disobeyed Daboll in that Dallas game is probably the only question we should care about. Telling Daboll to fuck off behind closed doors? I want to tell Daboll to fuck off too after this mess of a season. Again, who cares. There shouldn't be any harmony right now.

Reminer, some of the best NY teams of all time were littered with dramatics in and out of the locker room. Winning is all that matters and there's little to no proof that drama or locker room tension impacts winning or losing. It's just noise.

I think Wink is average. I won't lose sleep if he's done here, but I couldn't give a shit less about this high school drama nonsense.
Of course they don't want him back  
Mike from Ohio : 1/10/2024 10:57 am : link
He hates the coach and they just fired his two closest associates. Why do you want that guy on your payroll.

The Giants are just communicating that they have no plans to let him out of his contract. I don't think they are going to chain him to a desk and make him coach the defense.
RE: the only  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/10/2024 10:59 am : link
In comment 16357385 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
thing that would make this better is if Taylor Swift and Kelce somehow get involved.

If they did, it would all unfold on Peacock.
RE: RE: This is nothing more than a highly visible  
Matt in SGS : 1/10/2024 10:59 am : link
In comment 16357676 SomeFan said:
Quote:
In comment 16357668 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


exit package & non-compete negotiation that happens every day in corporate America that doesn't get the press views that you see because it's an NFL team.

Wink got his stories out for a couple months painting Daboll as the bad guy. Planted leaks to try to force his firing so he can collect & choose his next job, and ding Daboll for fun. Giants kept quiet, Daboll included, through the season to try to at least keep it in house (arguing over pizza). Wink looked every bit the Buddy Ryan coaching tree to the end, with the juvenile "24 hour" stunt on his playcall sheet. He is daring the Giants to fire him.

So the Giants are now going on the offensive and calling his bluff.

However, the longer this drags out, it actually hurts both sides. This will end up a legal issue at some point if the Giants look to fill his position while he's still in it, which is why Garafolo was given this info. No one wants Wink back, especially Wink.

What is going to happen, IMO, Wink's agents and the Giants will finalize his exit package. He will get his money. He will not be allowed to coach in the NFC East unless it's for a HC job (good luck). Now, maybe they play hardball and tell him to sit on a beach in Florida in his compression sleeves all 2024, but I think that's part of the negotiation.

This is all public posturing to get to an agreed upon non-compete. Like I said, welcome to Corporate America.

how can we be sure of the assumptions in your second paragraph?


I'd say Occam's razor, but to your point, we can't be sure unless Glazer reveals his source, which he won't and shouldn't, unless they ask to be revealed. But Art Stapleton has more or less come out and said as much that this was all either Wink directly or his camp. The sooner they move on from all this, the better. Daboll has to win in 2024 or he will be an OC somewhere else in 2025.
RE: I'd like to see them starting interviewing DC's  
Mike from Ohio : 1/10/2024 11:00 am : link
In comment 16357358 Sean said:
Quote:
So hopefully this charade is over soon.


They can't interview replacements for a position that is currently filled and that they maintain they are happy with.
RE: RE: This is nothing more than a highly visible  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2024 11:11 am : link
In comment 16357676 SomeFan said:
Quote:
In comment 16357668 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


exit package & non-compete negotiation that happens every day in corporate America that doesn't get the press views that you see because it's an NFL team.

Wink got his stories out for a couple months painting Daboll as the bad guy. Planted leaks to try to force his firing so he can collect & choose his next job, and ding Daboll for fun. Giants kept quiet, Daboll included, through the season to try to at least keep it in house (arguing over pizza). Wink looked every bit the Buddy Ryan coaching tree to the end, with the juvenile "24 hour" stunt on his playcall sheet. He is daring the Giants to fire him.

So the Giants are now going on the offensive and calling his bluff.

However, the longer this drags out, it actually hurts both sides. This will end up a legal issue at some point if the Giants look to fill his position while he's still in it, which is why Garafolo was given this info. No one wants Wink back, especially Wink.

What is going to happen, IMO, Wink's agents and the Giants will finalize his exit package. He will get his money. He will not be allowed to coach in the NFC East unless it's for a HC job (good luck). Now, maybe they play hardball and tell him to sit on a beach in Florida in his compression sleeves all 2024, but I think that's part of the negotiation.

This is all public posturing to get to an agreed upon non-compete. Like I said, welcome to Corporate America.

how can we be sure of the assumptions in your second paragraph?


because it's in everyone's interest.

there is a contract in place - if wink wants out and the giants want out a settlement is the way for both sides to do that.

it is not in winks interest to be out of the nfl for a 1 year under his contract, unless he wants a vacation. in which case the giants would oblige him probably. so if he wants out of his contract he will have to give the giants something they want, which is likely staying out of the division.

he probably made a similar deal with baltimore 2 years ago when they let him out, it's unlikely they did that with him free to go to pitt or whatever other divisional team was looking for a DC back then.
Winks DNA  
Reale01 : 1/10/2024 11:16 am : link
Comes from the Buddy Ryan tree. Very ego driven. Its my defense. Pitts the Defense vs Offense. Internally devisive. Rex Ryan was the same way. It is part of how they motivate their players, They are good DCs if the HC can find a way to manage them. Harbaugh did for years. Ditka did for a while.

They are like Ferrari fast, splashy, look at me. They also require careful care and maintenance. They are not built to last.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Another wrinkle. This is getting more and more absurd  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/10/2024 11:19 am : link
In comment 16357538 Mayo2JZ said:
Quote:
But I’m sure teams do this ALL THE TIME. There is no way to know what is going on “behind the scenes” and extremely difficult to prove tampering charges unless it’s so obvious. If it were, there would be a plethora of tampering charges each year.

Your second assumption is based on your first assumption.

There really isn't anything to support that teams are regularly tampering with coaches that are under contract, especially considering that they would only likely do so when they have vacancies of their own, and those vacancies tend to be rather high profile, and usually happen immediately after the season concludes.

Besides, what would be the benefit of reaching out to a coach that's under contract if you still need permission from his current team to hire him anyway? Why risk the tampering charges just to do things out of order?

If your assumptions were valid, the scenario you'd see play out would be coaches getting fired at some point after the initial wave of "Black Monday" terminations, with very quick backfills from other staffs, because ultimately what you're describing is a situation where a team would be determining whether an desirable upgrade even exists before pulling the plug on the incumbent in that role.

Do you see that scenario happening with any frequency? I can't think of many (if any) instances that fit.
RE: RE: The question is, what happens if Wink does nothing  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/10/2024 11:22 am : link
In comment 16357628 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16357516 Section331 said:


Quote:


but hang out in FL? I’m sure at some point he would be expected to show up for team meetings, and if he doesn’t, they can fire him for cause, but how long would that take?

I understand what the Giants are doing here, but there are ways that Wink can string things along that could seriously handicap how the Giants move forward. Given that Wink’s Giants career is almost certainly over, they could miss out on the opportunity to interview the better DC candidates.

I guess make sure that Henderson and Patterson are resigned for next year, and one of them can become the DC if no better candidates are left, but yeah, what a shitshow.


I have to believe that not showing up for work (whether it's a team meeting, practice or even a game) would be something that voided Wink's contract, without further compensation.

Think about it. I doubt the team lawyers drew up a contract that would allow a coach to not quit, but then also not show up for team meetings... and expect to be compensated for the remaining year on his contract.

Right, but would the contract void with a noncompete clause intact?

I don't think this is about the money. Mara has paid a fortune to make coaches go away. I think this is about controlling where he can go next (and honestly, probably a bit of mutual spite at this point).
RE: RE: RE: RE: _____________  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/10/2024 11:26 am : link
In comment 16357670 BH28 said:
Quote:
Deliberate would be firing him. If Wink is a lunatic and comes back to work, he's essentially called the Giants bluff. Maybe they are extremely confident that their position will ultimately be successful, but it still seems like an unnecessary risk.

Not necessarily. Deliberate just means deliberate. Whatever approach they take, they're doing so with deliberation, that's all I'm saying.

Firing him could be deliberate; it could also be impulsive and reactive (which would not be deliberate in the way that I'm intending).
Question  
GeoMan999 : 1/10/2024 11:29 am : link
Did Daboll fire the Wilkins brothers just to piss off Wink so he would quit?
RE: Question  
logman : 1/10/2024 11:30 am : link
In comment 16357767 GeoMan999 said:
Quote:
Did Daboll fire the Wilkins brothers just to piss off Wink so he would quit?


I don't think we'll ever know for sure, but it's plausible. What favors Daboll is the poor performance of the OLB group since their arrival and the fact that Daboll fired one of his own good friends.
Giants will give him a severance package contingent on him not signing  
Ivan15 : 1/10/2024 11:37 am : link
With an NFC East team. After that, it doesn’t really matter whether it is a firing or resignation. Mutual agreement like a divorce.

If the Giants wanted Wink to stay, they would not have fired his 2 assistants.
RE: Giants will give him a severance package contingent on him not signing  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/10/2024 11:41 am : link
In comment 16357784 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
With an NFC East team. After that, it doesn’t really matter whether it is a firing or resignation. Mutual agreement like a divorce.

If the Giants wanted Wink to stay, they would not have fired his 2 assistants.

First of all, he has more than two assistants.

Secondly, Daboll also fired one of his own closest allies in Bobby Johnson.

Firing the Wilkins brothers could have been a shot across the bow at Wink, or it could have just been a shot at the Wilkins brothers themselves. Their performance wasn't above reproach, and it's also entirely possible that one/both of them may have been the Glazer/Raanan leak.
Is Pat Hanlon Outside...  
clatterbuck : 1/10/2024 11:41 am : link
Hanlon seems to have been outside or out of the loop as this drama unfolded. He could have/should have had a strategy to get out in front of the story before it went off the rails. It's possible, of course, he did offer some advice that was ignored but having Daboll say he expected Wink back followed in a nano-fraction of a scaramucci that Wink was "resigning" was PR malpractice, imo. And now advancing the story line that Giants still want Wink back seems kind of silly, especially after you make it known via Schwartz, that Wink loudly cursed out his HC and then stormed out of the facility. It seems the lawyers are running the communications show and, no offense to lawyers, in my experience this is usually a bad idea.
RE: RE: RE: _____________  
bw in dc : 1/10/2024 11:43 am : link
In comment 16357649 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16357364 knowledgetimmons said:


Quote:


In comment 16357354 I am Ninja said:


Quote:


Why can this franchise never just be fucking normal?



It might have something to do with NYC market and the media there. Just a hunch.


The NYC market isn't that unique, nor is the NYC sports media. The Giants have long been irrelevant to any other segment of the NYC media anyway.

This isn't about environmental factors, IMO. It's about Wink being a lunatic and the Giants being exceedingly deliberate in their response.


I'm with you up until the second part of your last sentence.

Just fire the dolt and move on. He's not worth all of this nuance and time. Wink is a good DC, not a Hall of Famer like Dick LeBeau. Let him go wherever his petulant, giant size head and ego wants to go. His reputation seems pretty sullied at this point.

Agree with Essex that  
BobR in Durham : 1/10/2024 11:45 am : link
Shoen's and Daboll's responses at the Monday PC indicate a deliberate strategy for handling this. I'd argue that the front office has had plans in place for this since Wink & Co. started leaking to the media.
The longer this goes on, it really starts to hurt Wink's position because at some point there will be no open DC positions available. It wouldn't surprise me if the moment all NFC East DC positions are filled, Wink gets fired for cause.
bw  
Sean : 1/10/2024 11:46 am : link
Wouldn't it be typical Giants to pull this while worrying Wink goes to Philly just for Philly to fire Sirianni and bring in Belichick to a ready made team?
Wink’s reaction to Daboll  
thrunthrublue : 1/10/2024 11:51 am : link
Reminds one of John Belushi’s cafeteria scene in Animal House.
They don't want Martindale to have his way....  
Fishmanjim57 : 1/10/2024 11:58 am : link
Wink wants to be fired, and by acting out the way he has would usually speed up his termination, but the Giants don't want Martindale to go to a team within their division. Right now Wink just looks like a spoiled brat that isn't getting his way.
RE: Question  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 12:11 pm : link
In comment 16357767 GeoMan999 said:
Quote:
Did Daboll fire the Wilkins brothers just to piss off Wink so he would quit?


I'd be shocked if there was any other explanation.

It was a power move on Daboll's part.
RE: This is nothing more than a highly visible  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 12:13 pm : link
In comment 16357668 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
exit package & non-compete negotiation that happens every day in corporate America that doesn't get the press views that you see because it's an NFL team.

Wink got his stories out for a couple months painting Daboll as the bad guy. Planted leaks to try to force his firing so he can collect & choose his next job, and ding Daboll for fun. Giants kept quiet, Daboll included, through the season to try to at least keep it in house (arguing over pizza). Wink looked every bit the Buddy Ryan coaching tree to the end, with the juvenile "24 hour" stunt on his playcall sheet. He is daring the Giants to fire him.

So the Giants are now going on the offensive and calling his bluff.

However, the longer this drags out, it actually hurts both sides. This will end up a legal issue at some point if the Giants look to fill his position while he's still in it, which is why Garafolo was given this info. No one wants Wink back, especially Wink.

What is going to happen, IMO, Wink's agents and the Giants will finalize his exit package. He will get his money. He will not be allowed to coach in the NFC East unless it's for a HC job (good luck). Now, maybe they play hardball and tell him to sit on a beach in Florida in his compression sleeves all 2024, but I think that's part of the negotiation.

This is all public posturing to get to an agreed upon non-compete. Like I said, welcome to Corporate America.


WINNER.
Seems like there's a whole lot more to this  
ghost718 : 1/10/2024 12:17 pm : link
Not really buying any of the reasoning being given as to why the Giants are acting this way.I say this because I don't think you can cite another example in NFL history of a team being reluctant to fire a defensive coordinator for the reasons being discussed.
RE: Seems like there's a whole lot more to this  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/10/2024 12:21 pm : link
In comment 16357913 ghost718 said:
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Not really buying any of the reasoning being given as to why the Giants are acting this way.I say this because I don't think you can cite another example in NFL history of a team being reluctant to fire a defensive coordinator for the reasons being discussed.


Teams do this all of the time, even at the HC level. The Cowboys wouldn't let the Giants talk to Dave Wannstedt.

It's not complicated. Wink wanted out, but he wants his money and freedom. The Giants don't like the way he put himself over team and don't want to give him the money and freedom. They don't want him in Philly. It's not more complicated than that.
RE: RE: RE: ......  
Blueworm : 1/10/2024 12:27 pm : link
In comment 16357657 SomeFan said:
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In comment 16357570 christian said:


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In comment 16357530 CoughlinHandsonHips said:


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Wink playing checkers, while the gmen playing chess here.

Wink marches out with his "24" clipboard, while Gmen drill down into the language of the contract

Very laughable.



They haven't pulled off a queen's gambit if they pay him most or all of his salary and he's the defensive coordinator of his hometown Bengals in two weeks.

I'm not calling a victory quite yet.

I am sure Wink or his agent has gotten a lawyer by now.

Aren't most agents lawyers?
RE: RE: Question  
Spartan10 : 1/10/2024 12:32 pm : link
In comment 16357894 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16357767 GeoMan999 said:


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Did Daboll fire the Wilkins brothers just to piss off Wink so he would quit?



I'd be shocked if there was any other explanation.

It was a power move on Daboll's part.


Thibs had more sacks this year but his pass rush win rate actually declined. I don't think our edge players played particularly well against the run or pass other than Thibs getting hot for spell. We were near the top of the league in blitz percentage but near the bottom in sacks.

Also, I think it is rumored that the Wilkins brothers were the source of the leak to Glazer and the leak annoyed Dabs. So yeah, do a mediocre to poor job, leak negative comments to the media about your boss and act like you are not accountable and well you no longer have a job.
RE: RE: RE: RE: ......  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/10/2024 12:35 pm : link
In comment 16357944 Blueworm said:
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Aren't most agents lawyers?

Nominally, yes. Doesn't mean that termination disputes are their specialty though.
what is the worst case scenario here?  
AROCK1000 : 1/10/2024 12:39 pm : link
Wink refuses to quit,and he shows up for work anyway?
Would this hinder our abilty to look for and hire his replacement?
 
christian : 1/10/2024 12:53 pm : link
Jimmy Sexton and CAA aren't lacking for legal counsel.

The attorneys will figure this out like adults, because Daboll and Martindale can't.
Let's Just Say  
regischarlotte : 1/10/2024 1:02 pm : link
Schoen ain't no Regional Manager Dwight Schrute.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Another wrinkle. This is getting more and more absurd  
Mayo2JZ : 1/10/2024 1:09 pm : link
In comment 16357750 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16357538 Mayo2JZ said:


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But I’m sure teams do this ALL THE TIME. There is no way to know what is going on “behind the scenes” and extremely difficult to prove tampering charges unless it’s so obvious. If it were, there would be a plethora of tampering charges each year.


Your second assumption is based on your first assumption.

There really isn't anything to support that teams are regularly tampering with coaches that are under contract, especially considering that they would only likely do so when they have vacancies of their own, and those vacancies tend to be rather high profile, and usually happen immediately after the season concludes.

Besides, what would be the benefit of reaching out to a coach that's under contract if you still need permission from his current team to hire him anyway? Why risk the tampering charges just to do things out of order?

If your assumptions were valid, the scenario you'd see play out would be coaches getting fired at some point after the initial wave of "Black Monday" terminations, with very quick backfills from other staffs, because ultimately what you're describing is a situation where a team would be determining whether an desirable upgrade even exists before pulling the plug on the incumbent in that role.

Do you see that scenario happening with any frequency? I can't think of many (if any) instances that fit.


I understand and of course I am making an assumption but I think it goes on in more subtle ways like the "asking for a friend" scenario. There are just so many ways that an agent/rep can get around this similar to the Rooney Rule. I just don't think I am being naive here.
The last hiring cycle was Wink's last hurrah at a HC spot  
Dnew15 : 1/10/2024 2:08 pm : link
After this stunt and his unceremonious exit from Balt two years ago will end with him in no-man's land.

This is going to end badly for Wink.
RE: RE: RE: What a joke  
Joey in VA : 1/11/2024 3:34 pm : link
In comment 16357599 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 16357402 Joey in VA said:


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In comment 16357373 TyreeHelmet said:


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Garafolo is such a Giants mouthpiece. They don’t want Wink back.

Not even close to true.



You think the Giants want Wink back? Or that Garafolo isn’t a mouthpiece for the Giants?
The mouthpiece part. He's agenda less for the most part, he reports what he's told by people he trusts.
RE: RE: RE: RE: What a joke  
TyreeHelmet : 1/11/2024 3:46 pm : link
In comment 16360086 Joey in VA said:
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In comment 16357599 TyreeHelmet said:


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In comment 16357402 Joey in VA said:


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In comment 16357373 TyreeHelmet said:


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Garafolo is such a Giants mouthpiece. They don’t want Wink back.

Not even close to true.



You think the Giants want Wink back? Or that Garafolo isn’t a mouthpiece for the Giants?

The mouthpiece part. He's agenda less for the most part, he reports what he's told by people he trusts.


But that report was complete bullshit and a lie. A national reporter like Garafolo obviously knew that, he was just putting out that BS as a favor...
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