Is this a typo in the fourth paragraph under Defensive Coordinator?
Quote:
This despite significant talent upgrades on the defensive line, linebacker, and the secondary in the offseason. Wink’s 2022 NYG defense wasn’t good either, though he had more talent/injury issues to deal with.
It can't be easy to write a compelling article at this point in the "non-season"!
Those of us who have battled in the business world understand that consecutive periods of poor results will get you fired even if no one can put a finger on what you might have done wrong! Johnson had to go. I wish him future success.
Over the years from purely from a fan's perspective I have elected to "pick and chose" specific attributes the Giants have offered as their own (for example "character" which should have disqualified OBJ).
I'll cherry pick another - simple, easy to communicate schemes (multiple level of "reads" between QBs and WRs never seemed to pan out in practice. An easy to learn and communicate defensive scheme seems ideal for a relatively young team.
there would be more reaction on Wink's possible motivation.
Never been a wink fan. You don't show up for a position telling your boss you want his job here or somewhere else, implying that you should have been hired in their position. You might want that, not sure, ambition is not wrong, but you don't say it out loud.
When you try to achieve, you do that through achieving actual results. Wink's results were not good. The talent was lacking for sure, but he didn't make his own case.
then, undermining the head coach serves zero purpose, whether the premise is true or false...I've been pissed at my boss and I've been both right and wrong. Wink dealt with it in the worst possible way. Good riddance.
My only comment is that you should have a seperate bolded
This could be one of the biggest moves of the off season.
Well, one can hope anyway.
I thought about it (and Wellman is included at the end), but at this point they need a priest to conduct an exorcism. That would get its own category with respect to the injury issue.
For all the turmoil and chaos, I feel pretty good about the hires
with all the crap Harbaugh was going through at Michigan did Wink maybe get contacted about that job opening up?
If Harbaugh knew he was leaving and was basically preparing Moore to take over instead of Minter it could have been known he would return to the NFL and bring Minter. Maybe Moore or someone reached out.
Long story short if Wink managed to get fired he would be taking his full 3 Mil as he likely didn't have offsets in the contract for taking a College job. Maybe he was just trying to double dip for the year.
Either Chris Smith will be replaced, or the Giants will add a 2nd Asst O Line coach that has NFL experience and that Bricillo wants added to the staff.
Either Chris Smith will be replaced, or the Giants will add a 2nd Asst O Line coach that has NFL experience and that Bricillo wants added to the staff.
Let’s hope you are correct. You’ve pointed out before that Chris Smith was a surprise, marginally qualified hire.
there would be more reaction on Wink's possible motivation.
your speculation on Wink’s motives makes sense when you consider Daboll’s actions - if he sniffed out such a plan, it makes sense that he’d block it with a chess move, like firing the Wilkins bros.
RE: thanks for pointing out the most ignored part of Wink but most of the
recently happened in Washington could effect the Giants.
The Commanders announcement that Johnson was hired also said that Travelle Wharton and Juan Castillo were let go.
Remember that the year Daboll left Alabama to be OC for the Bills, his OL coach and run game coordinator was Juan Castillo. Castillo had been hired the year prior, which is when Schoen was the Asst GM. That Bills 2018 staff included Shea Tierney as well.
Wharton is a young coach and last years assignment as the top guy in Washington may have been too much. But he is well regarded in league circles, had a large role in coaching last years Senior Bowl, and has NFL experience as a player. Some will remember he made a successful transition from Tackle to Guard during his playing career.
The Achilles for the Giants has been the OLine the past 10 years. You simply can't expect the best from Bricillo by giving him Chris Smith as his only assistant.
I do want to highlight was the decision by Wink to leak to Glazer on the Sunday before the bye week. He knew he wouldn't be asked about this for almost two weeks. It also happened when the Giants were 3-8.
I liked the Wink hire at the time and though his defense wasn't great
I liked watching it more than the previous iterations of our defense. Rather attack, blitz and fail then play the bend but dont break defense where you actually break. I think he got more production out of players we had than the previous DC's. That said his schemeing became more apparent to me only in the last few months and I'm glad to be rid of the cancer he was to the team. I'm looking forward to a fresh start with perhaps a different approach from a younger but experienced DC. Excited to see if he can improve the run defense and hoping the pass defense continues to improve.
I do want to highlight was the decision by Wink to leak to Glazer on the Sunday before the bye week. He knew he wouldn't be asked about this for almost two weeks. It also happened when the Giants were 3-8.
recently happened in Washington could effect the Giants.
The Commanders announcement that Johnson was hired also said that Travelle Wharton and Juan Castillo were let go.
Remember that the year Daboll left Alabama to be OC for the Bills, his OL coach and run game coordinator was Juan Castillo. Castillo had been hired the year prior, which is when Schoen was the Asst GM. That Bills 2018 staff included Shea Tierney as well.
Wharton is a young coach and last years assignment as the top guy in Washington may have been too much. But he is well regarded in league circles, had a large role in coaching last years Senior Bowl, and has NFL experience as a player. Some will remember he made a successful transition from Tackle to Guard during his playing career.
The Achilles for the Giants has been the OLine the past 10 years. You simply can't expect the best from Bricillo by giving him Chris Smith as his only assistant.
Juan Castillo also has ties to Andy Reid (remember when he was moved from OL coach to Defensive Coordinator!) so that could work with Kafka in some sort of "Senior Offensive Assistant" role
Look, I could not work for Daboll. I don't believe in screaming at people for any reason at all. It is counter productive. I believe in accountability and brutal honesty though. In private. People who yell at others in a public setting lack the ability to emotionally regulate.
I believe in Daboll's strategic acumen but think he has a bit to learn about leadership. Might not be ready for the top spot. The old ways are dead, guys.
Look, I could not work for Daboll. I don't believe in screaming at people for any reason at all. It is counter productive. I believe in accountability and brutal honesty though. In private. People who yell at others in a public setting lack the ability to emotionally regulate.
I believe in Daboll's strategic acumen but think he has a bit to learn about leadership. Might not be ready for the top spot. The old ways are dead, guys.
Daboll has screamed on the sideline at coaches like twice in his career here. This is being completely blown out of proportion.
I agree 100% that Wink was snaking for Daboll's job, yeah snaking like a snake. It absolutely looks that way now that the dust has cleared and he's in college, his NFL career may be over now.
Bricillo is the key hope for me, he did great things with crap in Las Vegas and he tutored under the best OL coach to ever walk the earth in Scarnecchia.
Wellman returning is HUGE, we finally fixed the injury mess when he arrived, I assume the Maras broke the bank to bring him back.
What I like about Bowen is he stops the run, then you leave the DBs to Jerome Henderson and you're set on defense coach wise. Good summary, well done old pal.
The best part is when people say things like “I could not work for Daboll”. Comparing their 9-5 job with what goes on on the football field is asinine. Sure, you wouldn’t expect to get scolded in front of customers while working the deli at Wawa. But anyone that has ever played football has very likely been screamed at, sworn at, called names etc. Football is a highly intense, emotional game that isn’t suited for the delicate flowers.
Look, I could not work for Daboll. I don't believe in screaming at people for any reason at all. It is counter productive. I believe in accountability and brutal honesty though. In private. People who yell at others in a public setting lack the ability to emotionally regulate.
I believe in Daboll's strategic acumen but think he has a bit to learn about leadership. Might not be ready for the top spot. The old ways are dead, guys.
I don't think Daboll is an old or new type coach. There were MANY great coaches who showed very little emotion/screaming or really none at all in the past - Bud Grant, Tom Landry, Bill Walsh come immediately to mind. There were also players' coaches like Jerry Glanville, John McKay, Bum. I do agree with your point though and do not like Daboll's style in that regard. I don't like that he runs around on the sidelines getting in the face of players. Seems too much but think that is just his personality for now at least.
I'm very glad the Giants didn't negotiate a deal where Wink got paid in exchange for not going to a rival. I think that would have looked weak on Daboll's part. Turns out no one wanted Wink because he's a program wrecker and poison.
For my taste, when Wink's crew leaked the story to Glazer, I wish Daboll would have fired Wink and his lackeys on the spot. Sure, Wink would have been paid, but that's just unacceptable nonsense.
As far as how Daboll treats people, I find this old behavior super gross. I hope this isn't his style any longer.
Quote:
Offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, in particular, unleashed a torrent of tough love, except the love part was lost on McCoy and the teammates who observed the regular razzing.
In what became a running joke in the Browns' locker room, Daboll disparaged McCoy loudly and relentlessly – sometimes to his face, sometimes through the earpiece in the quarterback's helmet.
"There were times I had to pull my helmet off to call a play in the huddle," McCoy recalled in an interview earlier this month. "Guys could hear him yelling, and they'd say, 'Just take it off.' People said to me, 'Man, I ain't never seen anything like that. Just hang in there.'"
about the OL issue for over a decade. It did take 16 years to draft another AP/PB OL going from Snee to Thomas. Snee's last PB was in 2012 so you went a decade without a PB OL. Hopefully the new OL coach can help but he will need the right talent that can be developed.
I think the Wink/Daboll issue was rooted in a lack of respect. Wink didn't handle it well but I suspect he did not think very highly of his HC and had a issue to the D being called out with how poor the offense was. With all the turnover on the coaching staff Daboll needs to get this turned around fast or he is next.
The best part is when people say things like “I could not work for Daboll”. Comparing their 9-5 job with what goes on on the football field is asinine. Sure, you wouldn’t expect to get scolded in front of customers while working the deli at Wawa. But anyone that has ever played football has very likely been screamed at, sworn at, called names etc. Football is a highly intense, emotional game that isn’t suited for the delicate flowers.
I couldn't agree more. When did a coach yelling become news? Right or wrong, its common place in both college and professional sports.
The idea that Wink was simply trying to stage a coup and failed is more likely than the yelling being a legitimate issue.
I agree 100% that Wink was snaking for Daboll's job, yeah snaking like a snake. It absolutely looks that way now that the dust has cleared and he's in college, his NFL career may be over now.
Bricillo is the key hope for me, he did great things with crap in Las Vegas and he tutored under the best OL coach to ever walk the earth in Scarnecchia.
Wellman returning is HUGE, we finally fixed the injury mess when he arrived, I assume the Maras broke the bank to bring him back.
What I like about Bowen is he stops the run, then you leave the DBs to Jerome Henderson and you're set on defense coach wise. Good summary, well done old pal.
May be conspiracy theory bunk, but my spidey sense tells me otherwise. The only problem with this theory is it would mean that Wink actually thought Mara would swap out Daboll for Wink... that's a pretty big assumption.
My guess is Team Wink was feeling the temperature rising, and feared they were about to be the fall guys. I think they brought the issue public as a way to paint Daboll as complicit in the mess, in the event the defensive staff got fired during the year.
If Wink and his crew were fired mid season, being a victim of Daboll's failure is a better story than being the root cause of the problem.
Said in another way, I think they went to the press as a CYA move and it backfired.
"Whether he deserved the criticism or not, most Giants fans wanted offensive line coach Bobby Johnson gone. Johnson now joins the long line of ex-NYG offensive line coaches who have not been able to turn shit into gold."
I've been holding out hope that our OL talent was much better than the results we've been getting and that coaching is the main problem. It seems you don't think much of our OL talent. How bad do you think our talent level really is? Is there no hope for respectability next year?
It's almost never one thing. Poor coaching, poor scouting, injuries, lack of consistency, too much focus on cross training rather than mastering a specialization in camp, etc.
I would guess a combination of all the above, in varying degrees, and the ratios probably differ from player to player.
I think it's safe to say that Oline coaching is at least part of the problem. No how much of it and how much improvement can we count on by the coaching change remains to be seen.
Many here have been saying that the Giants should absolutely not take a tackle at #6. Perhaps they are right ..... not because we don't need one but because we can't trust Schoen to be a good enough judge of OL talent.
Always a news blackout around Super Bowl... So many coaching changes I thought a summary would be good.
Should be 2023?
Those of us who have battled in the business world understand that consecutive periods of poor results will get you fired even if no one can put a finger on what you might have done wrong! Johnson had to go. I wish him future success.
Over the years from purely from a fan's perspective I have elected to "pick and chose" specific attributes the Giants have offered as their own (for example "character" which should have disqualified OBJ).
I'll cherry pick another - simple, easy to communicate schemes (multiple level of "reads" between QBs and WRs never seemed to pan out in practice. An easy to learn and communicate defensive scheme seems ideal for a relatively young team.
Thanks!
Thanks.
Never been a wink fan. You don't show up for a position telling your boss you want his job here or somewhere else, implying that you should have been hired in their position. You might want that, not sure, ambition is not wrong, but you don't say it out loud.
When you try to achieve, you do that through achieving actual results. Wink's results were not good. The talent was lacking for sure, but he didn't make his own case.
then, undermining the head coach serves zero purpose, whether the premise is true or false...I've been pissed at my boss and I've been both right and wrong. Wink dealt with it in the worst possible way. Good riddance.
This could be one of the biggest moves of the off season.
Well, one can hope anyway.
This could be one of the biggest moves of the off season.
Well, one can hope anyway.
I thought about it (and Wellman is included at the end), but at this point they need a priest to conduct an exorcism. That would get its own category with respect to the injury issue.
If Harbaugh knew he was leaving and was basically preparing Moore to take over instead of Minter it could have been known he would return to the NFL and bring Minter. Maybe Moore or someone reached out.
Long story short if Wink managed to get fired he would be taking his full 3 Mil as he likely didn't have offsets in the contract for taking a College job. Maybe he was just trying to double dip for the year.
I expect something to happen there.
Either Chris Smith will be replaced, or the Giants will add a 2nd Asst O Line coach that has NFL experience and that Bricillo wants added to the staff.
I expect something to happen there.
Either Chris Smith will be replaced, or the Giants will add a 2nd Asst O Line coach that has NFL experience and that Bricillo wants added to the staff.
Let’s hope you are correct. You’ve pointed out before that Chris Smith was a surprise, marginally qualified hire.
your speculation on Wink’s motives makes sense when you consider Daboll’s actions - if he sniffed out such a plan, it makes sense that he’d block it with a chess move, like firing the Wilkins bros.
Good point.
The Commanders announcement that Johnson was hired also said that Travelle Wharton and Juan Castillo were let go.
Remember that the year Daboll left Alabama to be OC for the Bills, his OL coach and run game coordinator was Juan Castillo. Castillo had been hired the year prior, which is when Schoen was the Asst GM. That Bills 2018 staff included Shea Tierney as well.
Wharton is a young coach and last years assignment as the top guy in Washington may have been too much. But he is well regarded in league circles, had a large role in coaching last years Senior Bowl, and has NFL experience as a player. Some will remember he made a successful transition from Tackle to Guard during his playing career.
The Achilles for the Giants has been the OLine the past 10 years. You simply can't expect the best from Bricillo by giving him Chris Smith as his only assistant.
The Giants website just updated their Coaches Page.
Hover over any picture of a coach, and you can click a link to get that coaches bio.
It works for every coach- except one- Asst O Line Coach Chris Smith.
Is that a simple error by web guy in the back office?
Link - ( New Window )
The Commanders announcement that Johnson was hired also said that Travelle Wharton and Juan Castillo were let go.
Remember that the year Daboll left Alabama to be OC for the Bills, his OL coach and run game coordinator was Juan Castillo. Castillo had been hired the year prior, which is when Schoen was the Asst GM. That Bills 2018 staff included Shea Tierney as well.
Wharton is a young coach and last years assignment as the top guy in Washington may have been too much. But he is well regarded in league circles, had a large role in coaching last years Senior Bowl, and has NFL experience as a player. Some will remember he made a successful transition from Tackle to Guard during his playing career.
The Achilles for the Giants has been the OLine the past 10 years. You simply can't expect the best from Bricillo by giving him Chris Smith as his only assistant.
Juan Castillo also has ties to Andy Reid (remember when he was moved from OL coach to Defensive Coordinator!) so that could work with Kafka in some sort of "Senior Offensive Assistant" role
Not sure what’s next, but I just really feel the coaching staff for OLs isn’t finished yet.
I believe in Daboll's strategic acumen but think he has a bit to learn about leadership. Might not be ready for the top spot. The old ways are dead, guys.
I believe in Daboll's strategic acumen but think he has a bit to learn about leadership. Might not be ready for the top spot. The old ways are dead, guys.
Daboll has screamed on the sideline at coaches like twice in his career here. This is being completely blown out of proportion.
Bricillo is the key hope for me, he did great things with crap in Las Vegas and he tutored under the best OL coach to ever walk the earth in Scarnecchia.
Wellman returning is HUGE, we finally fixed the injury mess when he arrived, I assume the Maras broke the bank to bring him back.
What I like about Bowen is he stops the run, then you leave the DBs to Jerome Henderson and you're set on defense coach wise. Good summary, well done old pal.
The best part is when people say things like “I could not work for Daboll”. Comparing their 9-5 job with what goes on on the football field is asinine. Sure, you wouldn’t expect to get scolded in front of customers while working the deli at Wawa. But anyone that has ever played football has very likely been screamed at, sworn at, called names etc. Football is a highly intense, emotional game that isn’t suited for the delicate flowers.
I believe in Daboll's strategic acumen but think he has a bit to learn about leadership. Might not be ready for the top spot. The old ways are dead, guys.
For my taste, when Wink's crew leaked the story to Glazer, I wish Daboll would have fired Wink and his lackeys on the spot. Sure, Wink would have been paid, but that's just unacceptable nonsense.
As far as how Daboll treats people, I find this old behavior super gross. I hope this isn't his style any longer.
In what became a running joke in the Browns' locker room, Daboll disparaged McCoy loudly and relentlessly – sometimes to his face, sometimes through the earpiece in the quarterback's helmet.
"There were times I had to pull my helmet off to call a play in the huddle," McCoy recalled in an interview earlier this month. "Guys could hear him yelling, and they'd say, 'Just take it off.' People said to me, 'Man, I ain't never seen anything like that. Just hang in there.'"
I think the Wink/Daboll issue was rooted in a lack of respect. Wink didn't handle it well but I suspect he did not think very highly of his HC and had a issue to the D being called out with how poor the offense was. With all the turnover on the coaching staff Daboll needs to get this turned around fast or he is next.
The Giants website just updated their Coaches Page.
Hover over any picture of a coach, and you can click a link to get that coaches bio.
It works for every coach- except one- Asst O Line Coach Chris Smith.
Is that a simple error by web guy in the back office? Link - ( New Window )
Same with assistant strength coach Drew Wilson.
Quote:
is correct. The power of the media I suppose.
The best part is when people say things like “I could not work for Daboll”. Comparing their 9-5 job with what goes on on the football field is asinine. Sure, you wouldn’t expect to get scolded in front of customers while working the deli at Wawa. But anyone that has ever played football has very likely been screamed at, sworn at, called names etc. Football is a highly intense, emotional game that isn’t suited for the delicate flowers.
I couldn't agree more. When did a coach yelling become news? Right or wrong, its common place in both college and professional sports.
The idea that Wink was simply trying to stage a coup and failed is more likely than the yelling being a legitimate issue.
Bricillo is the key hope for me, he did great things with crap in Las Vegas and he tutored under the best OL coach to ever walk the earth in Scarnecchia.
Wellman returning is HUGE, we finally fixed the injury mess when he arrived, I assume the Maras broke the bank to bring him back.
What I like about Bowen is he stops the run, then you leave the DBs to Jerome Henderson and you're set on defense coach wise. Good summary, well done old pal.
May be conspiracy theory bunk, but my spidey sense tells me otherwise. The only problem with this theory is it would mean that Wink actually thought Mara would swap out Daboll for Wink... that's a pretty big assumption.
If Wink and his crew were fired mid season, being a victim of Daboll's failure is a better story than being the root cause of the problem.
Said in another way, I think they went to the press as a CYA move and it backfired.
I've been holding out hope that our OL talent was much better than the results we've been getting and that coaching is the main problem. It seems you don't think much of our OL talent. How bad do you think our talent level really is? Is there no hope for respectability next year?
But usually it's the players.
I would guess a combination of all the above, in varying degrees, and the ratios probably differ from player to player.
I think it's safe to say that Oline coaching is at least part of the problem. No how much of it and how much improvement can we count on by the coaching change remains to be seen.
But usually it's the players.
that's unfortunate.
Many here have been saying that the Giants should absolutely not take a tackle at #6. Perhaps they are right ..... not because we don't need one but because we can't trust Schoen to be a good enough judge of OL talent.
After ten years you would think they could figure it out.
Jason Garrett seemed to know, maybe bring him back as a consultant to review the o linemen in the draft.