Am I the only one pissed off about Xavier leaving?

But I think the defense collapsing with him gone may be a bit of an over reaction.

but if it was him or Burns there’s simply no way you can keep McKinney over him.

Which are two non premium positions for a pro bowl edge rusher, which is a premium position. That isn’t exactly collapsing the defense

Which are two non premium positions for a pro bowl edge rusher, which is a premium position. That isn’t exactly collapsing the defense

17 million a year.
He is paid like a top 5 safety and he is not.
Also safety is not a high value/ game changing position.
The Giants FO believe in reserving the big salaries for high impact positions like edge, QB, and OT.
I am an X fan and he was a bright spot last year but I fine giving that money to Burns instead of X.

But a team where the Giants are at would be ill advised spending nearly 20 mill on a safety.

the Giants were very fair with him over his accident and injury on the bye week. Also the the salaries for safeties has and will continue to go down much like RB’s. Perhaps Winks system was limiting him only time will tell.

deal? He got double what Barkley got.

I have high hopes for Belton.

that’s “collapsing our defense”. McKinney is a good player but a post safety isn’t involved in every play. Teams are throwing shorter more and more often. It’s just not a premium position the way a pass rusher is.

but there were, um, mistakes made the prior offseason.

Yes

.

If you are so pissed off then follow him more and become a Packer fan.

In comment 16438074 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

but there were, um, mistakes made the prior offseason.

Even if said mistake did not occur, I have a feeling he wasn't getting $17 mill per from the Giants. Believe his number would have been about $12 mill.

2 years from now.
He was never a player making game changing plays and if you paying 17 per he better change the direction of a game multiple times a season

Some of the noise he made.

Sending cryptic messages to the team via Twitter. The stupid decision to ride an ATV in season.

Good player and I respect that he played every snap this year. Just not worth the money.

The Giants let go a RB and S that together would have cost $30m AAV. They signed an edge for that same amount. Tells you what they value. You have to allocate your resources. You may not like it but that’s what they’re doing.

In comment 16438080 Go Terps said:

Quote:

.

My guess is you're a being serious, but that is a LOL line.

I just think X was horribly underrated.

And he's a 24 year old kid who led the D. It was impressive.

Okay, I guess the only resolution is to get on team Burns.

Seems like an asset.

Losing good players like McKinney and Barkley hurts and it sucks. However, GMS have to put together the best team possible within the confines of their finances under the cap system. They made a choice to not overpay for RB and Safeties for the long haul. It's a necessary evil, and in the short term it hurts, but in the long haul it makes good economic sense. It makes total sense for Philly to pay Barkley as he will be so much better than Swift who couldn't be used on the goal line for either Philly or Detroit. Philly may not be so great with the tush push now that Kelce retired.

Teams who have realistic aspirations to make the playoffs and get to the Superbowl have acceptable reasons to overpay free agent RBs. The Giants are not in that position yet. The Giants chose to put their money into the edge rusher Burns over a safety like McKinney because if Burns is worth it, you won't need good coverage safeties like McKinney. It's a matter of positional worth. Right now, RBs and Safeties are not typically valued as highly. It's sad, but that's the market.

Jason Pinnock is pretty awesome.

He's a playmaker.

In comment 16438067 GiantMike92 said:

Quote:

the Giants were very fair with him over his accident and injury on the bye week. Also the the salaries for safeties has and will continue to go down much like RB’s. Perhaps Winks system was limiting him only time will tell.

They aren’t though, and Safety has surged.
Pay trends - ( New Window )

because there's no way in hell I'm paying a safety anywhere near that amount.

In comment 16438068 Eric from BBI said:

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deal? He got double what Barkley got.

Actually, yeah - you corrected me Eric.

I'm just... very disappointed in how this offseason is going.

And it's not even April.

I won't even start to talk about Barkley - I don't think I'm mentally stable to even approach that issue.

In comment 16438067 GiantMike92 said:

Quote:

the Giants were very fair with him over his accident and injury on the bye week. Also the the salaries for safeties has and will continue to go down much like RB’s. Perhaps Winks system was limiting him only time will tell.

The Giants were very fair with him last season, which is why acting like a victim on social media prior to free agency was a bit much.

$17M per should be paid to an elite FS.

Much smarter to reallocate the dollars to an impact pass rusher.

In comment 16438104 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

In comment 16438067 GiantMike92 said: Quote: the Giants were very fair with him over his accident and injury on the bye week. Also the the salaries for safeties has and will continue to go down much like RB’s. Perhaps Winks system was limiting him only time will tell. They aren’t though, and Safety has surged. Pay trends - ( New Window )

That's kind of my point.

Remember when workhorse running backs used to be the thing in the early 2000s?

It's a different game in the 2020s. Secondary is extremely important now - it's the only way to combat the explosion of the passing game. Safeties are just as important as running backs now.

solid young player, but nothing special. I couldn't care less that he's gone

but he’s gone and there’s nothing we can do about it

Between all of 2022 and the first 16 games of 2023…. He had a total of ONE interceptions.

That’s pathetic.

In comment 16438124 bluefin said:

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but he’s gone and there’s nothing we can do about it

LOL

That actually helps.

Thanks haha.

he was about $5M over my threshhold. Bye bye

The defense will not miss a beat.

The defense will not miss a beat.

The defense will not miss a beat.

But that’s just my opinion. Ether way, I can’t fault not paying that much for a safety when you can try and fill multiple holes elsewhere. I love Barkley but I definitely did not want to pay him ether so I feel your pain.

the defense will not miss a beat

In comment 16438094 BillT said:

Quote:

The Giants let go a RB and S that together would have cost $30m AAV. They signed an edge for that same amount. Tells you what they value. You have to allocate your resources. You may not like it but that’s what they’re doing.

Mostly agree with slight distinction

I think you have to pick the Players you pay for. Not the positions you pay for. Getting too locked into positional value is myopic and following group think too closely will actually put you behind. (not saying that was the case here - just in general. Also not dismissing PV as a guideline.

I’m bummed x isn’t on the team. He is a very good and I think ascending player. it’s a lot of money ( so was but I get it. It makes sense and it’s the GMs prerogative how he wants to do things.

That said I generally prefer to keep our homegrown guys on the rare occasion we have ones worth keeping. I don’t like giving huge contracts to guys from outside the program. But this team and leadership is young. I hope that becomes the standard once we have a more solid base.

In comment 16438095 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16438080 Go Terps said: Quote: . My guess is you're a being serious, but that is a LOL line.

It's the truth. I think it's my brain trying to protect me from PTSD.

Unless he’s Ed Reed. McKinney was a good safety. He wasn’t all pro or elite. He wasn’t a difference maker. Barkley was much more of a difference maker and nobody wanted to pay him $12mil let alone $17mil. Curl got a 2yr deal worth a max of $13mil. Is McKinney better than Curl? Yeah. But I’d a million times rather have Curl at $6.5mil a year than McKinney at $17mil. Positional value is real. That’s why all those high priced safeties got cut this year. You can’t allocate that much of your cap into that position.

Dex-Burns-Thibs-Okereke-Banks-McKinney is a pretty solid young foundation of a defense. Sucks it couldn’t have been accommodated.

And it’s not like Green Bay has a rep of spending recklessly in free agency - they are very much a draft-and-develop franchise that saw value in him.

and I wanted to bring him back, BUT not at the number he got. You have to draw the line somewhere.

In comment 16438124 bluefin said:

Quote:

but he’s gone and there’s nothing we can do about it

X wasn't a made man.

Is the real details behind the off the field stuff. The ATV accident hurt the team significantly. There were at least 2x X broke ranks and revealed inside the locker room stuff to the media.

X was certainly dependable and tough. Smart is less clear cut. My concern Eri X was will he cause dissension and hurt the locker room. I have no way of knowing, but I feel they just couldn’t justify him at the value he got. I think he will do well in Green Bay, at least to start.

blame DJ.

In comment 16438140 Bill in UT said:

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the defense will not miss a beat

Me thinks he lacked impact plays, the D shall not miss a beat.
;)

In comment 16438124 bluefin said:

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but he’s gone and there’s nothing we can do about it

I used to eat in that Diner all the time...it's in Maspeth Queens in a very Industrial area...
He's Gone....

The team that took down the greatest offense ever. Tough, smart players but nothing special.

What was special was our dline.

Put the money in the dline and the whole defense looks a lot better.

Schoen hasn’t been perfect but building the lines is the path to a championship so not over-paying a safety seems reasonable to me.

Gives me hope.

I like.

helps the secondary more than anything else.

Burns, Dex, Thibs, Ojulari (maybe) and possibly a draft pick will do more to help the secondary than McKinney. And thats not a knock on McKinney its just the reality of football.

2007 our starting safeties were Gibril Wilson and Jimmy Butler.

BUt we had Strahan, Tuck, Osi pressuring the QB..

.

And wanted to keep him,but he got a premium amount,we would have been mistaken to match it.

as much as I liked Mckinney. That’s free agency for ya.

I knew the traitor was leaving the team, but Xavier McKinney wanted to stay if the Giants were willing to give him a well deserved raise in salary. The Giants went cheap on this and the team lost a future Pro-Bowl Safety to Green Bay.
Now they have to draft a Safety when it wasn't necessary. McKinney is 24 years old and hasn't reached him prime years yet, now we'll watch him succeed on the Packers.
Stupid move by Schoen for allowing Xavier McKinney to leave.
I don't give a whole field of f**ks about the departed RB, but X is another story.

Burns 10 out of 10. He's going to make way more impact on this team than if we re-signed X.

But that was too much money. JS should have transition tagged him or franchised him then signed him to a more reasonable deal He wouldn’t be able too see his market value if he didn’t hit the market.

The comp picks for the Giants always get cancelled out by the fact that we have to shop in FA to make up for bad drafting.

But it is what it is. McKinney didn’t make enough plays but he’s only 24 and on the rise so you pay for potential.

I'm more pissed off we didn't try to keep our offensive play-maker Barkley! Our offensive leader as well! That pisses me off.

In comment 16438146 DeVito32 said:

Quote:

Unless he’s Ed Reed. McKinney was a good safety. He wasn’t all pro or elite. He wasn’t a difference maker. Barkley was much more of a difference maker and nobody wanted to pay him $12mil let alone $17mil. Curl got a 2yr deal worth a max of $13mil. Is McKinney better than Curl? Yeah. But I’d a million times rather have Curl at $6.5mil a year than McKinney at $17mil. Positional value is real. That’s why all those high priced safeties got cut this year. You can’t allocate that much of your cap into that position.

Reed or Polamalu.

In comment 16438165 AROCK1000 said:

Quote:

In comment 16438124 bluefin said: Quote: but he’s gone and there’s nothing we can do about it I used to eat in that Diner all the time...it's in Maspeth Queens in a very Industrial area... He's Gone....

I hope the phone booth is still there.

Unfortunately, he does not play a position in the new style of cap management in which top money is only paid to power positions (QB, ER, WR). General managers finally figured out how to spend to build championships. Right out of Belichick's handbook when he built the Patriots into a dynasty. Same thing has happened to the RB position. It's all about money management when a cap is involved.

But Burns trade made it less annoying.

In comment 16438626 mavric said

He was not a great player.

With your checkbook out. 17M?

.

You're not.

In comment 16438089 Chris684 said:

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The stupid decision to ride an ATV in season.

It was a sightseeing tour.

A.
SIGHT.
SEEING.
TOUR.

But he plays a non-premium position and he got paid premium dollars for the position. Good for him, and good for Schoen for being disciplined. There will hopefully be a day very soon (once DJ money is clear), that Schoen can afford to pay that big money to a safety or TE or what have you, but today is not the day.

He's building this roster from the inside out, allocating the resources to where they have the biggest impact, and I think that's important.

In comment 16438069 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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I have high hopes for Belton.

Sadly, I don’t. I think he’s been opportunistic and a ball hawk, which is great, but his tackling has left a lot to be desired. I don’t think this is necessarily something that gets better. You either understand angles and can control your body to them, or you can’t.

an above average safety.

I think it's encouraging that we're allocating resources correctly.