Let's get this party started early. Rangers didn't do themselves any favors against Pittsburgh the other night, I expect they'll come out and play a much better game tonight. Devils didn't fare too well against Pittsburgh last night either, blowing a 3-1 lead going into the 3rd period by giving up 5 unanswered to lose 6-3. Penguins aren't dead yet, but with that loss last night, I think the Devils' chances are shot.
Looks like Rempe will be back in the lineup and Cuylle will come out again. I figured Laviolette would keep Rempe out of this one to avoid the sideshow that is inevitable with MacDermid, or maybe he feels like they need a shot in the arm after a rough outing against Pittsburgh and a less than stellar performance in Arizona. Cuylle seems like an odd choice to come out. As others alluded to in the last game thread, Vesey has had a difficult go of it lately, maybe he should get a game or two in the press box.
Rempe vs MacDermid will most likely happen at some point.
Of course. Two years ago the Rangers went to the ECF and were up 2-0 in the ECF with a worse bottom 6 and a worse top 6, and worse D group overall, you fans are drama queens. And all the competition (in the East at least) this year is worse than 2 years ago. No Bergeron, Krejci, etc. in BOS, TBL is FAR weaker, the NYR are the best team in the league and fans are already lining up Trouba to blame if they don't win a cup. Get some balls and stop having a loser mentality (not you Lowell - just in general).
I'm 100% sure Messier Leetch and Richter will be the only ones I'll see do it in my lifetime
I think the better question is can you win a cup with Kreider as a top LW.
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with Roslovic in the top six, with Lindgren as top pair and Trouba rather than Schneider with Miller?
Of course. Two years ago the Rangers went to the ECF and were up 2-0 in the ECF with a worse bottom 6 and a worse top 6, and worse D group overall, you fans are drama queens. And all the competition (in the East at least) this year is worse than 2 years ago. No Bergeron, Krejci, etc. in BOS, TBL is FAR weaker, the NYR are the best team in the league and fans are already lining up Trouba to blame if they don't win a cup. Get some balls and stop having a loser mentality (not you Lowell - just in general).
Playoffs are a different matter. Bruins had a record season and lost in the first round to the Panthers. Is it a coincidence that Fox played his best hockey this year with Gus when Lindgren was hurt?
Too small Lindgren cannot clean the crease and win board battles against power forwards. He also has only 10 goals in four years and very few primary assists.
Trouba kills them with his turnovers, sometimes two on a single shift. He takes a million shots from the blue line and most of them miss the net or get blocked. When he gets one on goal, there's usually no Ranger in the crease.
Roslovic is a journeyman ond cannot remotely measure up to the value Getzlaf adds when and if the teams meet in the playoffs.
PJ: I value your posts as you have a great deal of knowledge and I often learn from them. However, it seems to me that you place your own opinions above others and lack tolerance for what others think. Perhaps being a student as well as a teacher might be beneficial.
The SC is a hard trophy to win, some say the hardest trophy to win in sports, but it seems like fans are unwilling to allow the Rangers are favorites and should win the cup. Doesn't mean the team is not flawless nor does it mean they will win the cup. but it's ok to acknowledge they should even though it sets you up for letdowns.
As for your points, do you think two years ago the Rangers beat the Penguins without Trouba? Do you think they beat CAR without Trouba? Fan perception is what it is, but when you look at d-zone turnovers he does lead the team, but he is not much different than Gus or Schneider in more minutes played:
Plus Trouba is among the league leaders in blocked shots and by far the D leader in hits on the team. These are things that make a difference - especially in the playoffs.
BOS had a good team last year, so I am not excuse making, and no one expected them to lose in the 1st round, but they had a lot just working against them, first they were an older team having played a full season, second they relied heavily on goaltending, and third and most importantly they drew an upstart 8 seed Panthers who probably should have been a 2/3 seed.
Anyway, most of what you cited are not(IMO) cup contender disqualifying. there isn't a perfect team in the league. the Rangers problems relatively speaking are less than almost every one of them.
Here's where I stand. The Rangers are not a perfect team. The top line has not produced as much as we'd like them to, the defensemen are prone to making mistakes. That said, show me a team that is as deep at the blue line as the Rangers. Show me another team that has a Vezina winning goalie, Norris winning defenseman, and Hart finalist. None of this means that the Rangers will win the Cup, but there is no reason to go into the playoffs believing they can't. I've said it before, I've never seen a team that is in first place in their league that receives the level of scrutiny this team does. Just enjoy the freaking ride! I know 30 years without winning a Cup has taken its toll on all of us, but this is the best team the Rangers have had since '94 and I really think it's possible they get it done this year.
Here's where I stand. The Rangers are not a perfect team. The top line has not produced as much as we'd like them to, the defensemen are prone to making mistakes. That said, show me a team that is as deep at the blue line as the Rangers. Show me another team that has a Vezina winning goalie, Norris winning defenseman, and Hart finalist. None of this means that the Rangers will win the Cup, but there is no reason to go into the playoffs believing they can't. I've said it before, I've never seen a team that is in first place in their league that receives the level of scrutiny this team does. Just enjoy the freaking ride! I know 30 years without winning a Cup has taken its toll on all of us, but this is the best team the Rangers have had since '94 and I really think it's possible they get it done this year.
this is what I was saying - good post. Didn't mean to seem "teacher", I love hearding everyone's opinions and discussing/debating them. While I am confident in my opinions I never mean to dismiss others in our disagreements/discussions.
It’s real!!!
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with Roslovic in the top six, with Lindgren as top pair and Trouba rather than Schneider with Miller?
I think the better question is can you win a cup with Kreider as a top LW.
35 goals doesn't qualify as a top LW?
Here's where I stand. The Rangers are not a perfect team. The top line has not produced as much as we'd like them to, the defensemen are prone to making mistakes. That said, show me a team that is as deep at the blue line as the Rangers. Show me another team that has a Vezina winning goalie, Norris winning defenseman, and Hart finalist. None of this means that the Rangers will win the Cup, but there is no reason to go into the playoffs believing they can't. I've said it before, I've never seen a team that is in first place in their league that receives the level of scrutiny this team does. Just enjoy the freaking ride! I know 30 years without winning a Cup has taken its toll on all of us, but this is the best team the Rangers have had since '94 and I really think it's possible they get it done this year.
Because I've tried everything.
Thinking they were going to win - nope
Reverse psychology - nope
Knowing they weren't going to win - nope
Taken it's toll? Yeah that's for sure.
Also, I've heard that "best teams since 94" line a couple of times.
Their closest call was a year I didn't really think they'd do anything but played a much better LA kings team.
Gus adds offense to the lineup that Lindgren doesn't.
You know that McDonagh was playing on a broken foot, right?
Everyone is entitled to be a fan in their own way, but it's been rather shocking this season how quickly folks in the threads give in to the negative.
This is a good team. I'm going to enjoy the ride. They absolutely can win this year. It doesn't mean they will, but I'd really have to contort myself to list reasons why it isn't a realistic possibility.
They've shown that they have the ability to get the better of just about any team in the league when they are on their game. Now they just need to do it at the right time.
Still some wood to chop on locking up division and home ice.
Side note - the battle for Metro 3rd place and the WCs has grown compelling. Every game these teams are playing night in and night out is enormous.
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I hate every Rangers player on that ice that game 7 vs Tampa Bay in 2015 except for Lundqvist, with a burning passion. What a pussy performance.
You know that McDonagh was playing on a broken foot, right?
Looked like he was playing on a broken foot in 2014 against the Kings, too. Oh yeah forgot about that. Good point. Still fuck that game.
One foot McDonough can get a pass, where was Nash and everyone else? My big gripe here is they didn't score any goals that night.
Everyone is entitled to be a fan in their own way, but it's been rather shocking this season how quickly folks in the threads give in to the negative.
This is a good team. I'm going to enjoy the ride. They absolutely can win this year. It doesn't mean they will, but I'd really have to contort myself to list reasons why it isn't a realistic possibility.
They've shown that they have the ability to get the better of just about any team in the league when they are on their game. Now they just need to do it at the right time.
Still some wood to chop on locking up division and home ice.
Side note - the battle for Metro 3rd place and the WCs has grown compelling. Every game these teams are playing night in and night out is enormous.
I mean. We've seen plenty of close calls in the last 10 years. Cool?
How about the big one?
They've won 6-5 games and 1-0 games, they've won games when they have not been at their best, they are near the top of the league in comeback wins, they have top 5 PP and PK, near the top of the league in goal differential...But nope, no chance of winning the Cup!
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It's crazy to me to see that there are fans who literally have zero faith that this team can actually get it done. Winning the Cup is nearly impossible, but when this fan base discusses the team's flaws, many of us forget that every team is flawed. If the Rangers have no chance, who does? Florida, who is 2-7-1 in their last 10 games and got lit up by Montreal last night? Boston who the Rangers swept this year? Carolina, who habitually comes up small in the playoffs, and can't win road games? Toronto with their goaltending? Tampa who is a shell of what they were 2/3 years ago?
Here's where I stand. The Rangers are not a perfect team. The top line has not produced as much as we'd like them to, the defensemen are prone to making mistakes. That said, show me a team that is as deep at the blue line as the Rangers. Show me another team that has a Vezina winning goalie, Norris winning defenseman, and Hart finalist. None of this means that the Rangers will win the Cup, but there is no reason to go into the playoffs believing they can't. I've said it before, I've never seen a team that is in first place in their league that receives the level of scrutiny this team does. Just enjoy the freaking ride! I know 30 years without winning a Cup has taken its toll on all of us, but this is the best team the Rangers have had since '94 and I really think it's possible they get it done this year.
Because I've tried everything.
Thinking they were going to win - nope
Reverse psychology - nope
Knowing they weren't going to win - nope
Taken it's toll? Yeah that's for sure.
Also, I've heard that "best teams since 94" line a couple of times.
Their closest call was a year I didn't really think they'd do anything but played a much better LA kings team.
It's more than that for me...I was 32 when they finally won in 1994. We endured everything from the Broad Street Bullies, to John Fucking Druce, to losing series after series we were favored in over the years.
PTSD? Yeah...it's real wrt being a Rangers fan.
That said, this team does seem different. They have more physicality than any team in awhile, seemingly built to play in the playoffs. Carolina and Tampa are the only two teams in the east who worry me. All others should be beatable. This team could win it all, but due to ~50 years of frustration, I just can't seem to say "it's real, they are contenders".
They've won 6-5 games and 1-0 games, they've won games when they have not been at their best, they are near the top of the league in comeback wins, they have top 5 PP and PK, near the top of the league in goal differential...But nope, no chance of winning the Cup!
I know they have a chance but lol
It's the Rangers lol and who gives a fart about the regular season? The NHL playoffs is the real shit. I've been the one saying losses to Pittsburgh and whoever will not matter.
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these threads have gone soft.
Everyone is entitled to be a fan in their own way, but it's been rather shocking this season how quickly folks in the threads give in to the negative.
This is a good team. I'm going to enjoy the ride. They absolutely can win this year. It doesn't mean they will, but I'd really have to contort myself to list reasons why it isn't a realistic possibility.
They've shown that they have the ability to get the better of just about any team in the league when they are on their game. Now they just need to do it at the right time.
Still some wood to chop on locking up division and home ice.
Side note - the battle for Metro 3rd place and the WCs has grown compelling. Every game these teams are playing night in and night out is enormous.
I mean. We've seen plenty of close calls in the last 10 years. Cool?
How about the big one?
You seem determined to be miserable about the lack of a cup until it happens.
I share the frustration, but I'm personally not inclined to let that ruin the present.
When they do finally get there, I'd like the satisfaction of having enjoyed the experience rather than be left with the feeling that I should have enjoyed the ride more as I step off the coaster car.
What do I tie myself in knots over in my various sports fandoms if I'm not going to have some fun on the occasions that my team is truly in play for the big one?
But, to each their own. You surely aren't "wrong".
Maybe you should focus some of your hatred on the coach who dressed the most ridiculous lineup imaginable for that game.
Why wouldn't we be miserable with this team lol
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I hate every Rangers player on that ice that game 7 vs Tampa Bay in 2015 except for Lundqvist, with a burning passion. What a pussy performance.
Maybe you should focus some of your hatred on the coach who dressed the most ridiculous lineup imaginable for that game.
Yeah he sucks too
After the 2015 loss to TB, I just stopped taking them seriously. I knew their feet would collapse under them during the 22 run. The women in my life have gotten way too much (because they're were way too many!) so I just let them all cancel each other out and settled with the Rangers. They were a nice pickup after I realized the Giants were going to have a garbage season, which was ... Right away.
Oh yeah, we all get it. It's not that big of a deal and it's only a game. Don't kill your neighbors after the Giants lose to the Eagles!
Note: this was the first season that I had MSG since 21 because I have the app and people I work with help me pay it.
Regarding the "best team since '94" concept that I brought to this thread, many of you have pointed out we've heard that before. I think many thought last year this was the case. Last year though, I'd say that was the best ROSTER, not necessarily the best team. Coach is also part of the team, and everything I have heard since last year is that Gallant was basically going through the motions and completely disconnected from the team. I'm much more confident in this coaching staff to be able to adapt in series. There's something wrong when you lose 2 consecutive playoff series' in back to back years after being up 2-0.
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In comment 16454595 Lowell said:
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with Roslovic in the top six, with Lindgren as top pair and Trouba rather than Schneider with Miller?
I think the better question is can you win a cup with Kreider as a top LW.
35 goals doesn't qualify as a top LW?
His 5 on 5 play and his lack of defense for a guy his size is a bit disappointing imo. I know he has goals, but is that the only metric we look at for top players now?
It’s real!!!
You undersold it. It's one cup in 84 years. Their previous Cup predates Pearl Harbor by a year and a half.
I think this team has the best chance of any of the recent Rangers teams, but you also never know with this franchise.
Up two goals, twice, in the first two games of the SCF, and lose both in OT.
Up 3-1 on home ice in the first round of the playoffs, and then Mats Zuccarello gets drilled in the head with a slapshot.
Or you're 20 minutes away from a 3-0 series lead in the ECF, and next thing you know your season is over without having a 3rd period lead again.
Could the Rangers win the Cup this year? Sure they could.
Do I think they will? No, because why the hell would I? I hope I'm wrong, but the East is wide open and it only takes a couple of things to go wrong for a playoff series to fall apart.
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We have won ONE SC in over 70+ years. 1994.
It’s real!!!
You undersold it. It's one cup in 84 years. Their previous Cup predates Pearl Harbor by a year and a half.
I think this team has the best chance of any of the recent Rangers teams, but you also never know with this franchise.
Up two goals, twice, in the first two games of the SCF, and lose both in OT.
Up 3-1 on home ice in the first round of the playoffs, and then Mats Zuccarello gets drilled in the head with a slapshot.
Or you're 20 minutes away from a 3-0 series lead in the ECF, and next thing you know your season is over without having a 3rd period lead again.
Could the Rangers win the Cup this year? Sure they could.
Do I think they will? No, because why the hell would I? I hope I'm wrong, but the East is wide open and it only takes a couple of things to go wrong for a playoff series to fall apart.
As well as the shutout losses, games 5 and 7 vs. Tampa in '15 and last year vs. NJ. In that Kings series, the Rangers never scored a goal beyond the 2nd period of a game. Plus guys like Nash and Gaborik who could never take over a game or put up points the way other stars in the league would. Hopefully, Panarin is past that as well, because his playoff performances the past 2 years have been pretty bad. That is putting it nicely actually when considering last year. The '22 playoffs, at least he had a game 7 OT winner. Last year to go 6 consecutive games without a point was disgraceful. Hopefully this year in the playoffs, he goes nuts and the narrative as he raises the Cup is how he used the pathetic '23 playoff performance as motivation to elevate his game.
I still think the 2012 team goes all the way with a healthy Gaborik. That shoulder injury rendered him useless.
As well as the shutout losses, games 5 and 7 vs. Tampa in '15 and last year vs. NJ. In that Kings series, the Rangers never scored a goal beyond the 2nd period of a game. Plus guys like Nash and Gaborik who could never take over a game or put up points the way other stars in the league would. Hopefully, Panarin is past that as well, because his playoff performances the past 2 years have been pretty bad. That is putting it nicely actually when considering last year. The '22 playoffs, at least he had a game 7 OT winner. Last year to go 6 consecutive games without a point was disgraceful. Hopefully this year in the playoffs, he goes nuts and the narrative as he raises the Cup is how he used the pathetic '23 playoff performance as motivation to elevate his game.
Hopefully the difference between this year and the last two is that the Rangers actually have an offensive philosophy beyond Gallant saying "go score" and dusting his hands off.
I still think the 2012 team goes all the way with a healthy Gaborik. That shoulder injury rendered him useless.
Yes, healthy Gaborik in '12, I think they at least beat the Devils, though the Kings were pretty much a tank in those playoffs. '15 is the year I lament the most, because I think that was their best shot. I am still convinced if they got by Tampa that they would have beaten Chicago in the Finals. Between Zuccarello's head injury, McDonagh and Girardi both playing on one leg, and Nash being MIA, they ran out of steam.
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I hate every Rangers player on that ice that game 7 vs Tampa Bay in 2015 except for Lundqvist, with a burning passion. What a pussy performance.
Maybe you should focus some of your hatred on the coach who dressed the most ridiculous lineup imaginable for that game.
God that was maddening.
I still think the 2012 team goes all the way with a healthy Gaborik. That shoulder injury rendered him useless.
That was the biggest "?" Ever, I thought they had the Devils up 2-1 games. Nope. Lose 3 in a row.
... Where the fuck was the offense? Maybe my mind is a bit fuzzy but what was the big mistake by the coach? I fucking hate that game so I forget.
... Where the fuck was the offense? Maybe my mind is a bit fuzzy but what was the big mistake by the coach? I fucking hate that game so I forget.
I'm a little fuzzy with this reference as well, though I do recall them dressing 7 D, with Matt Hunwick getting a few shifts, due to the uncertainty of if McDonagh was going to be able to make it through the game.
this team is not '94 (or '13-'15 or '22). How many HOFers were on that '94 team? 5? Obviously players like Lowe and Anderson past their primes, Messier too if being honest, but regardless still HOFer (and Messier had many good years after '94)
And I think you could make a case for Richter and Graves for the HOF. a player like Graves will never be fully appreciated by award voters and it's not the NHL HOF so Richter should get consideration for the 1996 World Cup of Hockey which may be the single greatest goalie performance I have ever seen....anyway while this current NYR team is not '94 I do think they are the best equipped NYR team to win a cup since 1994.
They have every ingredient - elite goalie, special teams, grit, skill, a face off guy, coaching, just need to stay healthy the rest of the way.
I would try and lock up #1 seed, a home game 7 could be a difference maker, but it doesn't really matter IMO as much as health.
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Game 7 vs Tampa Bay
... Where the fuck was the offense? Maybe my mind is a bit fuzzy but what was the big mistake by the coach? I fucking hate that game so I forget.
I'm a little fuzzy with this reference as well, though I do recall them dressing 7 D, with Matt Hunwick getting a few shifts, due to the uncertainty of if McDonagh was going to be able to make it through the game.
Yes, they dressed 11 forwards, one of whom was Tanner Glass, so really 10 forwards.
And with TB committed to shutting squeezing the life out of the game (the same as Game 5) the coach had no answers. That's where the hell the offense was. The same offense that scored 17 goals combined in Games 3, 4, and 6 scored 0 in Games 5 & 7.
Is that because the players stunk, or because they couldn't make adjustments after not scoring early in either game?
this team is not '94 (or '13-'15 or '22). How many HOFers were on that '94 team? 5? Obviously players like Lowe and Anderson past their primes, Messier too if being honest, but regardless still HOFer (and Messier had many good years after '94)
And I think you could make a case for Richter and Graves for the HOF. a player like Graves will never be fully appreciated by award voters and it's not the NHL HOF so Richter should get consideration for the 1996 World Cup of Hockey which may be the single greatest goalie performance I have ever seen....anyway while this current NYR team is not '94 I do think they are the best equipped NYR team to win a cup since 1994.
They have every ingredient - elite goalie, special teams, grit, skill, a face off guy, coaching, just need to stay healthy the rest of the way.
I would try and lock up #1 seed, a home game 7 could be a difference maker, but it doesn't really matter IMO as much as health.
Ya because they're not a successful franchise. My God I hope you're right but everyone who is doubtful they'll win it all isn't far off from reality. Again, I'll believe it when I see it.
I don't care what other fans think or believe but Good God can you guys be right for once lol
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In comment 16454943 Route 9 said: Game 7 vs Tampa Bay
... Where the fuck was the offense? Maybe my mind is a bit fuzzy but what was the big mistake by the coach? I fucking hate that game so I forget.////////
I'm a little fuzzy with this reference as well, though I do recall them dressing 7 D, with Matt Hunwick getting a few shifts, due to the uncertainty of if McDonagh was going to be able to make it through the game. ....
And with TB committed to shutting squeezing the life out of the game (the same as Game 5) the coach had no answers. That's where the hell the offense was. The same offense that scored 17 goals combined in Games 3, 4, and 6 scored 0 in Games 5 & 7.
Is that because the players stunk, or because they couldn't make adjustments after not scoring early in either game?
heh, this could just as easily be dialogue about 2022 vs TBL, jumping out big 2--0, then 3-1. But it wasn't Nash and Gaborik it was Zib and Kreider, who had big games in the early wins and just crumbled to nothing when the games got hot and tight. I remember their PG interviews after the crushing four losses: they had nothing to offer in their defense, even the loss that made it 3-2, still up a game and just a W to clinch.
And the inexplicable coach's decision was to sit KK in Game 7 (or was that Devils' Game 7?).
pj, not sure I can agree your thought above that '22 top 6 then was worse than 24. 2nd line today, no question Bread, Trocheck & Laf--really our first line--are better. But '22 Vatrano Zib and Kreider were really cooking post-trade (hence the push to bring him back this trade deadline), up until TBL. '1st line': I don't put it on Roslovic, to Lowell's comment, because the chemistry and production from 93 and 20 have been MIA for better part of a half season. As I urged a few weeks ago in similar discussion, right now there is no balance in the top 6 with the top 3 being so unproductive--and liability in their own end and neutral ice. Lavvy has a matchup issue to cope with.
As to Roslovic and Wennberg: saw a stat last week, so it's stale: Guentzel 14 points (in fewer games bec of his injury);
Roslovic + Wennberg = 8 points
I think the tenor of writing off a Series vs CAR because we've handled them before is glib, not real.
and you're saying it because Kreider and Mika's chemistry seems off this year and for that reason you think the top 6 in '22 was better? I don't want to miss-state your opinion.
Either way, I stand by my view that the top 6 is better this year and I believe that because Panarin has elevated his game so much it negates the Kreider/Mika decline, plus having Trocheck far outweighs Strome IMO. ESPECIALLY on the dots and defensively, but also offensively. Not even considering for a second that Lafreniere is on the verge of breaking out if he hasn't already.
Vatrano was barely over .5 PPG in the playoffs (in 20 games) with 33% of those points coming on the PP which Roslovic won't play on, so I'll make a bet with you today that if the Rangers gets close to 20 playoff games or more, that Roslovic will have more 5v5 points than Vatrano did in '22.
It doesn't matter (to me) if Mika and Kreider outperform '22 (when they were really good most games) because Panarin, Trocheck and Lafreniere are the top scoring line now. And that's a good thing not a bad one. The Rangers "secondary scoring" is a real thing.
and you're saying it because Kreider and Mika's chemistry seems off this year and for that reason you think the top 6 in '22 was better? I don't want to miss-state your opinion.
Either way, I stand by my view that the top 6 is better this year and I believe that because Panarin has elevated his game so much it negates the Kreider/Mika decline, plus having Trocheck far outweighs Strome IMO. ESPECIALLY on the dots and defensively, but also offensively. Not even considering for a second that Lafreniere is on the verge of breaking out if he hasn't already.
Vatrano was barely over .5 PPG in the playoffs (in 20 games) with 33% of those points coming on the PP which Roslovic won't play on, so I'll make a bet with you today that if the Rangers gets close to 20 playoff games or more, that Roslovic will have more 5v5 points than Vatrano did in '22.
It doesn't matter (to me) if Mika and Kreider outperform '22 (when they were really good most games) because Panarin, Trocheck and Lafreniere are the top scoring line now. And that's a good thing not a bad one. The Rangers "secondary scoring" is a real thing.
To your 1st para, yes, I'd argue that '22's Kreider/Zib/Vatrano are (playing) better than '24 first.
And,
Yes, you are mis-stating my position: I think I was quite clear in saying that NYR '24 2nd line is (far) better than 2nd in 2022 but that '22 1st version is better, was playing better, than '24 1st. Taking the top 6s as a whole '22 vs '24 is an interesting question, but, yeah, for the top 6 maybe--question being does the elevation of play of the 2nd line outweigh the decline in play of the 1st?
I think the way you framed the comp of top 6 vs top 6 clouds the disparity of the play of the lines '22 vs '24.
As to Vatrano and his ppg in SCP '22, you never cease to amaze pulling these stats out of your arse LOL: are they real or are they Memorex? jk, I'm sure your data base resource is spot on.
ok, on your resource rich recall and access: I'm curious: Zib's line(s) '22 vs '24, what is the line's 5 on 5 production then and now? If not convenient, don't sweat it, but it would be interesting. Obviously, SCP don't factor in, yet.
I will say this and this may seem a little contradictory but you need really good special teams to win a cup, but cups are won with 5v5 play. I went back and looked the last 20 years or something every team who won the SC led the playoffs in 5v5 scoring except 1 team. Maybe that's obvious to most people since it really comes down to the final two teams playing more games than everyone else (at least theoretically), so purely counting stats like 5v5 goals it makes sense they have more, but I think that relationship is not merely a counting stat, I think it's causal.
just my opinion though.
I will say this and this may seem a little contradictory but you need really good special teams to win a cup, but cups are won with 5v5 play. I went back and looked the last 20 years or something every team who won the SC led the playoffs in 5v5 scoring except 1 team. Maybe that's obvious to most people since it really comes down to the final two teams playing more games than everyone else (at least theoretically), so purely counting stats like 5v5 goals it makes sense they have more, but I think that relationship is not merely a counting stat, I think it's causal.
just my opinion though.
Not to take away too much from this conversation, but I have been wondering why are Kreider and Mika joined at the hip, and they have gone through so many RW's. Is it more Mika or Kreider?
I say this often with today's power plays (predictable). I went back and watched some Gretzky power plays with the Oilers and to my surprise I guess due to lack of recollection, it's mostly the same thing - moving the puck to get the defenders moving to set up the seam pass.
You probably know more about this than me (from the goalie perspective) the plan almost every team has is to get the goalie moving east west and set up the shot to the side he's moving to. If you do it well and make clean passes it's really hard to defend. If you're the goalie, how do you move fast enough without cheating? If you cheat you will get beat - it's why you need guys like Fox and Panarin on the PP. But when your only real ending is the Mika one-timer from the face off dot (because it was so successful) it becomes predictable.
I like when Fox or Panarin shoot more on the PP or get it down low for the bumper feed every now and then just to keep the PK honest. and I'd coach it that way.
Oh and I hate the sling shot/drop pass zone entry. you have the whole team basically stationary at the blue line.
This game is chippy for sure
This game is chippy for sure
Rempe isn’t the one that starts all this shit. The insecure little bitches on the other teams that decide they want to prove how tough they are by putting a rookie in his place are to blame. Shitstain teams like your team know they can’t win the game so may as well try to be fake tough guys and pick on the kid, lol. As a fan, you should be embarrassed. They suck at hockey but boy do they have a guy that can beat up a rookie! Embarrassing
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Isn’t so tough anymore huh? Loving seeing his teeth all bloody ahaha
This game is chippy for sure
Rempe isn’t the one that starts all this shit. The insecure little bitches on the other teams that decide they want to prove how tough they are by putting a rookie in his place are to blame. Shitstain teams like your team know they can’t win the game so may as well try to be fake tough guys and pick on the kid, lol. As a fan, you should be embarrassed. They suck at hockey but boy do they have a guy that can beat up a rookie! Embarrassing
Oh stop. Now rempe is the victim?!? Guy throws a dirty elbow giving a guy a concussion and waves at bench after he pussies out on a fight now he a victim? It’s pretty simple, if you play the tough guy role, you answer the bell.
If it’s the “other” team starting it was does Lav put him on ice at start tonight? Answer that? Why is he on ice if he just trying to mind business keep his head down and play hockey.
Please, he came into league playing the tough guy role, now he has the rep and what comes with that is fights and challenges
Yea, to me this is rangers biggest issue. 5on5 they just don’t score enough. Teams stay outta box, rangers don’t have a ton of juice 5on5 from Mika and kreider
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So pathetic
Yea, to me this is rangers biggest issue. 5on5 they just don’t score enough. Teams stay outta box, rangers don’t have a ton of juice 5on5 from Mika and kreider
Rangers are basically a one line team. The Mika line is embarrassing
This game is chippy for sure
I’m a Ranger fan and I love Rempe’s spirit and willingness to fight, but he isn’t exactly knocking guys around. He takes his lumps.
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In comment 16455629 Anakim said:
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So pathetic
Yea, to me this is rangers biggest issue. 5on5 they just don’t score enough. Teams stay outta box, rangers don’t have a ton of juice 5on5 from Mika and kreider
Rangers are basically a one line team. The Mika line is embarrassing
Ooof
Who gives a shit lol Rangers are going to the playoffs. Devils will continue to be irrelevant, like always.
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Is everyone else besides Vesey on the Rangers that was involved has been ejected from the game for secondary fighting. So now they’re down Rempe, Goodrow as well as Trouba and Miller.
Who gives a shit lol Rangers are going to the playoffs. Devils will continue to be irrelevant, like always.
We have 3 cups since rags last one LOL. I’ll take that irrelevant….
LOL. You’re still mad we sent you home last year? It’s okay…. You have a shot this year
Just win baby
A lot of tired players tonight.
Schneider has really stepped up his game in the second half of the season
#LGR
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Just like the pens will always be cunts.
LOL. You’re still mad we sent you home last year? It’s okay…. You have a shot this year
Fuck the Devils lol ... You're talking about the playoffs and your garbages team ass team is going to be sitting home. Oh wait no one cares. What a weird fanbase. Maybe sub Philadelphia Eagles?
Enjoy the loss, babies!
Lol my man finally someone has the spirit
Ain't that the truth. He's playing his best offensive hockey lately.
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In comment 16455656 djm said:
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Just like the pens will always be cunts.
LOL. You’re still mad we sent you home last year? It’s okay…. You have a shot this year
Fuck the Devils lol ... You're talking about the playoffs and your garbages team ass team is going to be sitting home. Oh wait no one cares. What a weird fanbase. Maybe sub Philadelphia Eagles?
1994 and never more!!!
Anyway lol that was a little over the top. My sincere apologies and whatever. Nice little bump back for last year when you guys were hooting and hollering because you made beyond the first round (against a team who didn't shoot the puck at the net) but anyhow. NJ Devils fans have a weird little nerd fanbase thing about them and it's odd.
Start the GD playoffs already!! Don't care about players who are now 55-70 years old.
Lafrenière now at 26-28-54 in 76 games. Since the end of February, it’s 9-9-18 in 16 games. Really coming into his own.
Message sent!
K'Andre absolutely rag-dolled Marino. And then gave him the "too small". The clips are amazing.
Or you can turn the game off lol?
Message sent!
K'Andre absolutely rag-dolled Marino. And then gave him the "too small". The clips are amazing.
Who was it who "took on" Trouba and just immediately skated away? Lol that was hilarious
Rempe has to learn how to "hockey fight", get hold of the jersey. He takes some real haymakers.
Don't fuck with the Rangers. They can't be pushed around anymore.
I'm not a Devils fan, and I think he'd spend a lot of time suspended in today's game, but he was a great player.
I see Trouba as a lesser version of Stevens (maybe significantly lesser, but definitely similarities in their game), probably why you don't like him either.
That part of Smith's quote was pretty stupid seeing that we are talking about one hit that was even remotely suspension-worthy.
But on the whole I thought the body of his comments were appropriately measured aside from that stretch.
They really need to tighten up open space in their defensive zone.
Forwards need to get back quicker on their backcheck
With respect to 5v5 play, the third line is creating more scoring chances than the first line. It’s a head scratcher why Zibanejad and Kreider are not creating more scoring chances.
We need badly for them to create more scoring chances 5v5 in the playoffs.
They're a very WEIRD fanbase when it comes to the Rangers, especially Lundqvist. They're obsessed with that guy and their fans are on nearly every single social media post about him. Something about Marty, all the time.
But God damn, enough of those turds. Nice payback for last year. Enjoy.
They really need to tighten up open space in their defensive zone.
Forwards need to get back quicker on their backcheck
I agree with this and would add that if they don't fix this and be more consistent on the defensive end with Grade A chances, they won't get out of the second round. I have this overarching feeling that they let up too many goals (214) more than Florida, Boston, and Carolina and that could be a big problem in the playoffs when scoring goals is much harder imo.
They're a very WEIRD fanbase when it comes to the Rangers, especially Lundqvist. They're obsessed with that guy and their fans are on nearly every single social media post about him. Something about Marty, all the time.
But God damn, enough of those turds. Nice payback for last year. Enjoy.
I have no dog in this fight, I wouldn't care if Devils and Rangers fans beat each other bloody (verbally of course) but bringing up things Stevens did in a completely different era vs the game today is like making fun of a goalie for wearing a mask. Cheap shots were never ok, but hits to the head weren't treated like they are now and a lot of defenseman were taught to play the body like Stevens did. there was no such thing as a defenseless player. You're on the ice, you don't want to get trucked, keep your head up.
Anyway, Rangers went a long way to wrapping up the 1 seed. 3pts up on BOS with 6 left is almost insurmountable the way the NHL hands out points.
In the general NHL thread good discussion about no one wanting to seize WC2 (or MET3)
I know there are no easy outs in the playoffs, but if I am the 1 seed, I'd much rather face WAS, DET or PHI (probably in that order) than NYI or PIT (though if Jarry remains the circus he's been the past month don't care about PIT and they're a longshot anyway)
They really need to tighten up open space in their defensive zone.
Forwards need to get back quicker on their backcheck
With respect to 5v5 play, the third line is creating more scoring chances than the first line. It’s a head scratcher why Zibanejad and Kreider are not creating more scoring chances.
We need badly for them to create more scoring chances 5v5 in the playoffs.
Like Lundqvist last night, your top line is your best line. Zib and Kreider are not the top line, and havent been for a while.
Agree about them needing to step up, but I don't view them as the first line.
I've been to way more Rangers/Devils games in NJ than any other matchup between two teams and they're just a strange group of people. I don't know if you saw that rear naked choke video of the kid putting the Devil fan in a headlock from last year after the Devil fan attacked him or whatever. But that's how they are, they like to put their hands on you and there's a lot of physical altercations at those games.
I've been to tons of Giants at Eagles games and they never get physical. They're obnoxious but not in that way. I mean I hate them, but to be honest with you, the whole away stadium hostility is not just exclusive to Philly. Chicago Bears and Miami Dolphins were very obnoxious, same with New England but I went during the Brady years so they kind of had a reason to be arrogant lol
Also, note: Rangers AT Flyers is very peaceful. I've been to 10 Rangers games and never one incident. Not even shit talking. They're very chill, believe it or not.
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In comment 16455557 BleedBlue said:
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Isn’t so tough anymore huh? Loving seeing his teeth all bloody ahaha
This game is chippy for sure
Rempe isn’t the one that starts all this shit. The insecure little bitches on the other teams that decide they want to prove how tough they are by putting a rookie in his place are to blame. Shitstain teams like your team know they can’t win the game so may as well try to be fake tough guys and pick on the kid, lol. As a fan, you should be embarrassed. They suck at hockey but boy do they have a guy that can beat up a rookie! Embarrassing
Oh stop. Now rempe is the victim?!? Guy throws a dirty elbow giving a guy a concussion and waves at bench after he pussies out on a fight now he a victim? It’s pretty simple, if you play the tough guy role, you answer the bell.
If it’s the “other” team starting it was does Lav put him on ice at start tonight? Answer that? Why is he on ice if he just trying to mind business keep his head down and play hockey.
Please, he came into league playing the tough guy role, now he has the rep and what comes with that is fights and challenges
You do realize that every guy that he has fought has come FOR HIM. It's not like he's gone out of his way to hunt down Martin, DesLauriers, Reaves, etc. Martin eyed him up on practically his first shift. They want a piece of him, and he faired well in all of those fights except the one in Columbus.
Laviolette probably figured there would be one scrap with Rempe, but the Devils further embarrassed themselves last night and got owned in that line brawl. John Marino got beat like a drum by K'ANdre Miller, who never fights anyone.
Lol yeah all of these games were 2018-present
Lafrenière now at 26-28-54 in 76 games. Since the end of February, it’s 9-9-18 in 16 games. Really coming into his own.
That kind of hurts because GAG line was my all time favorite, each of them, and each had his offensive personality, with #19 being a superb disher to his L and R. But, this '2nd line': holy s..t. I did not realize it is the highest scoring line in NHL, that's some serious s..t with top lines for EDM, TOR, COL, etc. And with Laf and Trocheck playing serious 2-way hockey have to think their +/- is way up there too.
the worst I'd ever seen though was Bruins Whalers in Hartford, Adams division playoffs 1990 game 6.
so many fights in the stands they stopped the game for a while for security and police to quell the violence.
great game too, Whalers won in OT (Kevin Dineen) to send the series back to Boston for game 7.
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Passed Jean Ratelle’s 109 points in 1972 and is now only behind Jagr’s 123 for the highest scoring season in team history.
Lafrenière now at 26-28-54 in 76 games. Since the end of February, it’s 9-9-18 in 16 games. Really coming into his own.
That kind of hurts because GAG line was my all time favorite, each of them, and each had his offensive personality, with #19 being a superb disher to his L and R. But, this '2nd line': holy s..t. I did not realize it is the highest scoring line in NHL, that's some serious s..t with top lines for EDM, TOR, COL, etc. And with Laf and Trocheck playing serious 2-way hockey have to think their +/- is way up there too.
+2 for Laf and +15 for Trocheck, both lower than Kreider at +19. Interesting :)
Yessir, emphasis on 'still'. I think this sentiment grows in gravitas over the years.
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Anakim : 4/3/2024 10:22 pm : link : reply
In comment 16455651 Greg from LI said:
Ain't that the truth. He's playing his best offensive hockey lately and I was wrong to keep thinking Drury should send him packing for a big name RW.
(:>
touché, guilty as charged...(:> ...but don't those +/- include PP so bit of a skew for 5 on 5? Or am I off the res?
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Not that I think plus/minus tells you all that much. I just couldn't help myself given all the shots thrown at Kreider (and Mika)
touché, guilty as charged...(:> ...but don't those +/- include PP so bit of a skew for 5 on 5? Or am I off the res?
Plus minus does not include PP goals
Don't get me wrong, I even commented to a friend watching the game last night that Kreider is becoming a bit of a powerplay specialist. Or at least you don't really feel his impact much out there until he pops up for a goal (he does still have 19 even strength goals). But at the end of the day, nearly 40 goals on the season, it's not nothing.
the worst I'd ever seen though was Bruins Whalers in Hartford, Adams division playoffs 1990 game 6.
so many fights in the stands they stopped the game for a while for security and police to quell the violence.
great game too, Whalers won in OT (Kevin Dineen) to send the series back to Boston for game 7.
There was no violence at the Philly game I went to but the people around me just never shut up. Didn't help that the Rangers got pounded in the game.
I went to a Rangers-Pens game in Pittsburgh last year and that was fine. Had a good time other than the Rangers losing that one, too. I've only been to a handful of Rangers games but I'm pretty sure I've never attended a win.
You do get a plus if you are on the ice and your team scores a shortie and you do get a minus if you are on the PP and your team gives up a shortie.
Kreider has 2 SH goals this year and Mika has 2 (and overall the Rangers have 6 SH goals) so worst case though if Kreider and Mika was on the ice for all 6 it influences their +/- by 6. But you can argue it should, but....the Rangers have allowed 6 SH goals against this year (not easy to see if Kreider or Mika was on the ice for those), but it probably evens out to net 0 impact or close to it.
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Passed Jean Ratelle’s 109 points in 1972 and is now only behind Jagr’s 123 for the highest scoring season in team history.
Lafrenière now at 26-28-54 in 76 games. Since the end of February, it’s 9-9-18 in 16 games. Really coming into his own.
That kind of hurts because GAG line was my all time favorite, each of them, and each had his offensive personality, with #19 being a superb disher to his L and R. But, this '2nd line': holy s..t. I did not realize it is the highest scoring line in NHL, that's some serious s..t with top lines for EDM, TOR, COL, etc. And with Laf and Trocheck playing serious 2-way hockey have to think their +/- is way up there too.
don't feel so bad. Ratelle did it in 63 games.
exactly
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Just like the pens will always be cunts.
LOL. You’re still mad we sent you home last year? It’s okay…. You have a shot this year
Yes of course it bothered me. Doesn't change my opinion that the Devils are a joke and always will be. They had their moment. Rangers were so embarrassed and put off by that series loss they couldn't fire the HC fast enough. You rode the hot goalie who will never stop another shot to a series win. And all 10000 devils fans celebrated and talked shit all summer long like only they can. Don't forget to shine that round 1 trophy.
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In comment 16455660 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 16455656 djm said:
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Just like the pens will always be cunts.
LOL. You’re still mad we sent you home last year? It’s okay…. You have a shot this year
Fuck the Devils lol ... You're talking about the playoffs and your garbages team ass team is going to be sitting home. Oh wait no one cares. What a weird fanbase. Maybe sub Philadelphia Eagles?
1994 and never more!!!
2003 is a long time ago too. Just saying.
Gretzky was right all along.
Rangers played a flawless first period on both ends of the ice. Maybe got complacent in the second, made some inexplicable turnovers like Kreider making a back pass at the offensive blue line that directly led to Bratt setting up Hischier. Panarin with a few bonehead plays too. But the third period was excellent.
Kakko and Lafreniere playing like they are right now is really important going into the playoffs.
Personally, I've been saying it all year, I think too much is made of the Zibanejad/Kreider limited production 5 on 5. As has been mentioned, yes +/- is an antiquated stat in some ways, but the fact is, that line is putting up more goals than they are conceding, often against other teams' top lines. I would like to see them score more, Zibanejad had 91 points last year, he's likely going to finish the season in the high 60's/low 70's this year, but I think 93/20 do enough on special teams to make up for their lack of production at 5 on 5.
Not only did we not try to keep him, we used him as an add-on in the McDonagh trade. Will go down as maybe the worst trade in Rangers history. Definitely the worst in my lifetime. He was not considered a bust, but I think the Rangers did not plan to resign him when his contract expired so they shipped him off to get something for him.
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how come we didn't try to keep JT Miller? Was he considered a bust?
Not only did we not try to keep him, we used him as an add-on in the McDonagh trade. Will go down as maybe the worst trade in Rangers history. Definitely the worst in my lifetime. He was not considered a bust, but I think the Rangers did not plan to resign him when his contract expired so they shipped him off to get something for him.
Ever hear of a guy by the name of Rick Middleton?
Miller always had talent, but was long rumored to have a bad attitude and to be too enamored of the NY nightlife. And, in fairness, the Bolts gave up on him fairly quickly as well, shipping him off to Vancouver for a scrub and a couple of picks (one of which they flipped for Blake Coleman, the other they drafted a goalie who's been in the AHL for three years now).
So yeah, terrible trade since the Rangers got nothing much of value in return, but no one thought that Miller would break out to this extent.
Kings got: 1666 games from their four
Rangers got: 73
Some players mature later than others.
Kings got: 1666 games from their four
Rangers got: 73
Damn good post. Completely forgot about that. I don't remember Rangers past details like I do the Giants.
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in 1996 they dealt Ray Ferraro, Mattias Norstrom, Ian Laperriere, and Nathan LaFayette to the Kings for Jari Kurri, Marty McSorley, and Shane Churla. The three guys they got played a grand total of 73 games for the Rangers, with zero impact. Norstrom was a rock-solid, physical defenseman for the Kings for 11 seasons, team captain for six of them. Exactly the kind of defenseman the Rangers desperately needed. Ferraro was a good second line center, played four years for the Kings. Laperriere was a classic bottom six agitator, playing nine years for the Kings. Even LaFayette, the throw-in, played more games for the Kings than the Rangers got from Kurri/McSorley/Churla.
Kings got: 1666 games from their four
Rangers got: 73
Damn good post. Completely forgot about that. I don't remember Rangers past details like I do the Giants.
Yes an AWFUL trade. THank you Colin Campbell, whose mission was to remove every last non-English speaking Canadian from the Rangers roster, then remove anyone skill except Messier, Leetch and Richter. He wanted all players like himself. Limited talent, tough and effort. McSorley is one of the worst players I've ever seen. Kurri was washed up.
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In comment 16456505 Greg from LI said:
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in 1996 they dealt Ray Ferraro, Mattias Norstrom, Ian Laperriere, and Nathan LaFayette to the Kings for Jari Kurri, Marty McSorley, and Shane Churla. The three guys they got played a grand total of 73 games for the Rangers, with zero impact. Norstrom was a rock-solid, physical defenseman for the Kings for 11 seasons, team captain for six of them. Exactly the kind of defenseman the Rangers desperately needed. Ferraro was a good second line center, played four years for the Kings. Laperriere was a classic bottom six agitator, playing nine years for the Kings. Even LaFayette, the throw-in, played more games for the Kings than the Rangers got from Kurri/McSorley/Churla.
Kings got: 1666 games from their four
Rangers got: 73
Damn good post. Completely forgot about that. I don't remember Rangers past details like I do the Giants.
Yes an AWFUL trade. THank you Colin Campbell, whose mission was to remove every last non-English speaking Canadian from the Rangers roster, then remove anyone skill except Messier, Leetch and Richter. He wanted all players like himself. Limited talent, tough and effort. McSorley is one of the worst players I've ever seen. Kurri was washed up.
should say "non-English speaking, non-Canadian".
Kovalev and Zubov, Nedved, he couldn't wait to get rid of them.
Zubov - one of only four hall of famers drafted by the Rangers, and he played almost his entire career elsewhere. Sigh.
You get Ulf Samuelsson to play WITH Zubov, not instead of. Stupid move.
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In comment 16456383 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
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how come we didn't try to keep JT Miller? Was he considered a bust?
Not only did we not try to keep him, we used him as an add-on in the McDonagh trade. Will go down as maybe the worst trade in Rangers history. Definitely the worst in my lifetime. He was not considered a bust, but I think the Rangers did not plan to resign him when his contract expired so they shipped him off to get something for him.
Ever hear of a guy by the name of Rick Middleton?
UGH! As if they didn't have bars in Boston. Compounded the awful Espo trade with one even worse. A dark day.
Fucking hate that trade still to this day. Lucy sucked here.
another disaster