but he is a possession receiver at this point. And he still fancies himself as a deep threat.
Also think DC's have caught up with the short passing game and teams are going to be looking to throw the ball down the field as the Chiefs did in the Super Bowl.
I think it is, at least for now. They needed to get younger, but that transition is going to be painful. As long as Josh Allen is healthy, they’re likely a playoff team, but not a contender.
but he is a possession receiver at this point. And he still fancies himself as a deep threat.
Also think DC's have caught up with the short passing game and teams are going to be looking to throw the ball down the field as the Chiefs did in the Super Bowl.
I'm sorry, I don't recall many downfield passes in the Super Bowl....maybe 1 by KC and 2 by SF?
think this is like the 4th time in 5 years he's wanted a new contract
he has 18.5m guaranteed left this year that was due to pay him 19m cash. nothing left guaranteed beyond that i think since his option bonus was 2023.
i would guess he wants a new deal from houston that folds his remaining 18.5m gtd into something closer to what ridley just got (47m gtd). may be the last time he has leverage in his career. bills eating a lot of money for an out year pick during josh allen's prime, so i dont think they do this unless their hand is forced.
Even though the pick the Bills got is 2025, Bills' fan's presume
I know we need a WR1 badly but so many become a real pain-in-the-ass. Giants have plenty of experience on this front already but let's see if they learned from it. Buyer beware come draft day.
The Bills are good candidate to trade up with in the first round if the Giants go WR at 6 and one of the second tier QB falls. Highly unlikely the top 6 fall, but we are in lying season and some teams might not see some of the QBs are first round picks.
Can't believe they found someone to take on that head case.
they dont save much relative to keeping him.
this will actually add $3m of extra dead $ to their cap this year.
next year they gain an extra $20m which is about +15m over what they could have saved by keeping him this year and then cutting/trading him next year.
so their net savings is somewhere between 10-15m total, mostly free next year, and gaining a 2nd round pick next year, while not having him this year (and the day 3s).
the 2nd next year is a fine return for him but im pretty sure they'd have preferred him play out this last guaranteed year then dealt with him next year. he caught 107 passes last year, 108 the year before, 103 the year before that. he is still one of the handful of true WR1's in the game.
Jason_OTC
@Jason_OTC
The #Bills will carry about $31.1 million in dead money for Diggs. Pretty much a disaster extension for them. Wound up paying an extra $20.9M in 2022 and 2023 to come away with a net of less than a 2nd rounder next year.
player at full price contract but this looks like a good deal for both sides. If Diggs is 85% of his peak, he is well worth the $18MM a year that Texans are on the hook for. No cap savings for the Bills this year, since by my calc he has a dead cap hit of $21MM vs $18MM.
Jason_OTC
@Jason_OTC
The #Bills will carry about $31.1 million in dead money for Diggs. Pretty much a disaster extension for them. Wound up paying an extra $20.9M in 2022 and 2023 to come away with a net of less than a 2nd rounder next year.
wow, this is worse than I thought. They must have had a lot of unrecognized guaranteed $$$ left.
They can find an upgrade in the draft on a cheap rookie deal.
snap of the fingers away from drafting someone better than the guy who has made 4 straight pro bowls for them with 4 straight 100 catch/1k+ yard seasons, 2 of them all pro.
how many receivers picked 28th or later did that last year or the year before? puka? so probably 1 out of more than 50 taken.
They can find an upgrade in the draft on a cheap rookie deal.
snap of the fingers away from drafting someone better than the guy who has made 4 straight pro bowls for them with 4 straight 100 catch/1k+ yard seasons, 2 of them all pro.
how many receivers picked 28th or later did that last year or the year before? puka? so probably 1 out of more than 50 taken.
And who was drafted with the pick BUF traded away for Diggs? We can play this game all day.
Diggs is a bum hunter and a headcase. He’s a ghost in the playoffs vs good defenses. BUF was never going to get over the hump with him.
WRs need a QB to throw the ball to them, and whomever gets drafted by BUF is going to have the best QB in the game imv throwing to them.
He isn't the same player he was, and he's kind of a pain in the ass. Good move by Buffalo.
Felt the same way. And don't forget that one play Diggs didn't make that may very well beat KC in last year's playoff game. It wasn't an easy catch, but it was one a great WR makes in that kind of spot. Unfair to kill Diggs over one tough play he doesn't make, but the Bills didn't forget, apparently.
Allen is so young still. Bills will be fine. WRs like Diggs are replaceable even if he's still very good.
Digg took a shot at Allen via social media too. What a headcase.
"On Tuesday, Diggs chimed in on the question of whether he’s “essential” to the success of quarterback Josh Allen."
"It started with a post from former NFL quarterback Robert Griffin III, who raised the question of whether Diggs is “essential” to Allen’s high-level performances before declaring that he is. Someone named “The Peaky Pirate” responded with this: “Does Josh benefit from having a top tier receiver, yes. Is he essential to his success, no.”
"Enter Diggs himself, who replied to Mr. Pirate by saying this: “You sure?”
"On the surface, it’s odd that Diggs would feel compelled to engage with an account that has 218 followers. At a deeper level, it’s likely that Diggs has been hearing that talk and not saying anything and finally gave in to the temptation to share his views." Link - ( New Window )
When did WRs become such fucking divas? TO? I don't remember Rice causing drama. Andre Rison-'Bad Moon Rison' was a headcase, but not a diva. Irvin was a headcase & somewhat more, but he wasn't a diva.
They can find an upgrade in the draft on a cheap rookie deal.
snap of the fingers away from drafting someone better than the guy who has made 4 straight pro bowls for them with 4 straight 100 catch/1k+ yard seasons, 2 of them all pro.
how many receivers picked 28th or later did that last year or the year before? puka? so probably 1 out of more than 50 taken.
And who was drafted with the pick BUF traded away for Diggs? We can play this game all day.
Diggs is a bum hunter and a headcase. He’s a ghost in the playoffs vs good defenses. BUF was never going to get over the hump with him.
WRs need a QB to throw the ball to them, and whomever gets drafted by BUF is going to have the best QB in the game imv throwing to them.
minnesota replaced diggs with jefferson - a same year first round pick. not what buffalo returned here.
gabe davis got 24m gtd in FA, josh allen threw him the ball and he still wasn't 1/3 the player diggs is even with defenses focusing more on diggs.
kincaid was a 1st rd pick they traded up for last year, also wasn't nearly the player diggs was, even as a distant 2nd option behind diggs.
they gave dawson knox a pretty good contract and he hasn't been a highly productive tight end either. curtis samuel is a nice player and i think better than davis, but nowhere near diggs.
im not saying they did the wrong thing bc i think diggs likely forced their hand as all the reporting suggests, but it's pretty inarguable they will be a worse team for 2024 because of it. 0 cap room gained, 0 picks gained. the idea they will "find an upgrade in the draft" is unlikely at best when they only own 2 top 125 picks (and have a bunch of other needs since they've lost a half dozen other starters this offseason).
When did WRs become such fucking divas? TO? I don't remember Rice causing drama. Andre Rison-'Bad Moon Rison' was a headcase, but not a diva. Irvin was a headcase & somewhat more, but he wasn't a diva.
Terry Glenn, Joey Galloway, Keyshawn, TO, Moss, Chad Johnson, Marshall, OBJ, DJax, Dez, AB. For at least 3 decades it has been a diva position and as the CBA/rules changes created more positional value they are more in demand and therefore more enabled by teams willing to pay big contracts.
after the first couple games this year he was invisible. 620 yards and 5 tds thru the first 6 games. Then 636 yards and 3tds the next 13 games... They got rid of him while he still had value imo. That Vikings pick could end up being near the top of the 2nd round.
Jason_OTC
@Jason_OTC
The #Bills will carry about $31.1 million in dead money for Diggs. Pretty much a disaster extension for them. Wound up paying an extra $20.9M in 2022 and 2023 to come away with a net of less than a 2nd rounder next year.
Yet they still pulled the trigger. There's something to be said for recognizing a mistake and making a painful pivot. Hope Schoen has the same sort of fortitude.
after the first couple games this year he was invisible. 620 yards and 5 tds thru the first 6 games. Then 636 yards and 3tds the next 13 games... They got rid of him while he still had value imo. That Vikings pick could end up being near the top of the 2nd round.
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Henry McKenna
@henrycmckenna
A look at Stefon Diggs' season in splits for the #Bills #Billsmafia
📉Week 11-17:📉
Snap %: 63.3
Targets/game: 8.3
Receptions/game: 4.5
Rec Yards/game: 38
TD/game: 0.2
9:21 AM · Jan 2, 2024
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Diggs season - ( New Window )
Good post. And then Diggs was disappeared against KC in the playoff game after a pedestrian effort against Pittsburgh.
It's just a smart move by the Bills to assume Diggs has likely seen better days and the pain in the ass factor was really going to spike this offseason.
after the first couple games this year he was invisible. 620 yards and 5 tds thru the first 6 games. Then 636 yards and 3tds the next 13 games... They got rid of him while he still had value imo. That Vikings pick could end up being near the top of the 2nd round.
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Henry McKenna
@henrycmckenna
A look at Stefon Diggs' season in splits for the #Bills #Billsmafia
Week 11 wasn't the beginning of the drop off, it was week 7
first 9 weeks he was solid every week. he averaged 81ypg his career in buf, so he was over that 6x, under 4x, lowest catches in those first 9 weeks was 6, which is a 100+ pace, so he was well over that pace.
week 10 is the den loss, his first low usage game of the year (i assume matched up w surtain).
8g in sept/oct he averaged 11.3 targets per game (90 total, 71% catch rate).
9g in nov/dec that dropped to 7.7 per game (70 total, 54% catch rate).
it wasnt just him btw - allen only threw 10 tds in last 7 games w brady (1.4 per gm) after throwing 19 in the first 10 (1.9 per game) w dorsey. his comp% dropped from 71% to 61% first half second half too (pretty sure the 2nd line here is weeks 9-17, not 16).
im not saying they did the wrong thing bc i think diggs likely forced their hand as all the reporting suggests, but it's pretty inarguable they will be a worse team for 2024 because of it. 0 cap room gained, 0 picks gained. the idea they will "find an upgrade in the draft" is unlikely at best when they only own 2 top 125 picks (and have a bunch of other needs since they've lost a half dozen other starters this offseason).
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
im not saying they did the wrong thing bc i think diggs likely forced their hand as all the reporting suggests, but it's pretty inarguable they will be a worse team for 2024 because of it. 0 cap room gained, 0 picks gained. the idea they will "find an upgrade in the draft" is unlikely at best when they only own 2 top 125 picks (and have a bunch of other needs since they've lost a half dozen other starters this offseason).
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
Doubtful. “Forcing” the ball to Diggs led to a ton of success the majority of his time in Buffalo. Unless they replace him with a competent WR (or two) they are going to be easier to defend. I’d expect a PPG drop like in KC when Kelce got hurt, only Mahomes is simply better than Allen and makes it work. Maybe that’s what Buffalo needs though, to lean on their D and stop turning the ball over.
im not saying they did the wrong thing bc i think diggs likely forced their hand as all the reporting suggests, but it's pretty inarguable they will be a worse team for 2024 because of it. 0 cap room gained, 0 picks gained. the idea they will "find an upgrade in the draft" is unlikely at best when they only own 2 top 125 picks (and have a bunch of other needs since they've lost a half dozen other starters this offseason).
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
ah yes the mythical land of bbi where teams get better by replacing talented players with less talented players.
after dorsey got fired diggs targets went down by about 40%, if they are "better because they dont need to force it to him" why in that period did josh allen's completion percentage go down a full 10%, interception% go up to the worst since his rookie year, and tds also go down?
im sure the bills had their off-field reasons but thinking they are better on-field in the present having subtracted one of the most productive and durable wrs in the nfl while gaining literally nothing in the present is an argument i doubt even the bills biggest homer would make.
Curtis Samuel and bunch of scrubs drafted in the 5th round.
But, they have a QB.
We will see how that goes this year.
I am going to push back slightly in this. Shakir has shown some interesting upside. He looks fearless over between the hashes (for his size) and has some real burst once he gets the ball.
RE: RE: Bills have absolutely nothing at WR right now
Curtis Samuel and bunch of scrubs drafted in the 5th round.
But, they have a QB.
We will see how that goes this year.
I am going to push back slightly in this. Shakir has shown some interesting upside. He looks fearless over between the hashes (for his size) and has some real burst once he gets the ball.
i like each of shakir, kincaid, and samuel but we all know there's a big difference between being a nice #2/3 option next to an alpha who gets shadowed and doubled, vs then replacing the 150+ targets that went to the alpha. diggs was also extremely durable despite crazy volume (samuel hasnt been as durable in lower volume and kincaid had some concussions last year).
it seems extremely likely they are going to use 1 of their 2 day 1/2 picks on a WR.
ah yes the mythical land of bbi where teams get better by replacing talented players with less talented players.
after dorsey got fired diggs targets went down by about 40%, if they are "better because they dont need to force it to him" why in that period did josh allen's completion percentage go down a full 10%, interception% go up to the worst since his rookie year, and tds also go down?
im sure the bills had their off-field reasons but thinking they are better on-field in the present having subtracted one of the most productive and durable wrs in the nfl while gaining literally nothing in the present is an argument i doubt even the bills biggest homer would make.
I know your land of spreadsheets doesn’t account for it, but on field dynamics matter.
Stefon Diggs averaged just over 10 targets a game from weeks 1-10 (102 tgt) and averaged 86.8 y/g.
Week 11 is when the Bills made the switch from Dorsey to Brady, the rest of the season, 8.3 tgt/g, 58 tgt, 45 y/g... That’s not a 40% drop.
The Bills went 6-1, their ppg jumped slightly from 26.2 to 27. Josh Allen’s drop in production, although his interceptions per game dropped by .1, likely had more to do with playing the Philly, Dallas and KC defenses as opposed to the Raiders, Washington, Giants and Tampa defenses.
Diggs targets dropping by 1.7 a game isn’t enough to say Josh Allen will definitely be worse with say Xavier Leggette instead of Diggs.
I agree the Bills seem destined to go hard for WR on day one and possibly day two as well.
Just pointing out that Shakir looks like a good player and the Bills might feel positive about him taking on more responsibility.
agreed, but if diggs wasnt a headcase im sure they'd have been happier to have him back and just slide shakir's expanded role in for the departing gabe davis.
they have lost a lot of other starters this offseason and only have 2 premium picks. needing to use 1 or both on pass catchers is non-ideal. post-diggs trade they've lost the 3rd most in the league (this model is largely based on plus/minus and epa).
im not saying they did the wrong thing bc i think diggs likely forced their hand as all the reporting suggests, but it's pretty inarguable they will be a worse team for 2024 because of it. 0 cap room gained, 0 picks gained. the idea they will "find an upgrade in the draft" is unlikely at best when they only own 2 top 125 picks (and have a bunch of other needs since they've lost a half dozen other starters this offseason).
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
Doubtful. “Forcing” the ball to Diggs led to a ton of success the majority of his time in Buffalo. Unless they replace him with a competent WR (or two) they are going to be easier to defend. I’d expect a PPG drop like in KC when Kelce got hurt, only Mahomes is simply better than Allen and makes it work. Maybe that’s what Buffalo needs though, to lean on their D and stop turning the ball over.
Which is what kind of worked in the stretch after the switch to Brady where they went 6-1, except Allen didn’t cut down the turnovers. If the Bills ever get over the hump, it’ll be because Allen cut down on the turnovers not because of Diggs. That and not kicking the ball into the end zone with 13 seconds left.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: this seems totally realistic
Diggs targets dropping by 1.7 a game isn’t enough to say Josh Allen will definitely be worse with say Xavier Leggette instead of Diggs.
keep up captain strawman, i never once said "josh allen will definitely be worse" i actually never argued josh allen will be worse at all, i disagreed with you saying their offense would be better without diggs by pointing out that their passing game did in fact get worse when they targeted him less.
ah yes the mythical land of bbi where teams get better by replacing talented players with less talented players.
In response to “they might be better” not having force Diggs the ball 10 times a game? Get a grip, dude. You can’t have normal conversations. I wasn’t even being snarky, it’s an actual possibility. We don’t know what the Bills plan is going to be on offense without Diggs and who the replacement is. Maybe they think Leggette + someone on the roster they’re high on will run more efficiently than forcing 10 targets to Diggs, we have no idea until they hit the field. That’s why I said they MIGHT be better.
The “definitely say Allen will be worse” sentence was in reference to there being other factors to why Allen’s numbers went down, and not that it was just throwing less to Diggs. Not that you said he’d definitely get worse without Diggs. Don’t hurt yourself reaching for the strawman.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: this seems totally realistic
Which is what kind of worked in the stretch after the switch to Brady where they went 6-1, except Allen didn’t cut down the turnovers. If the Bills ever get over the hump, it’ll be because Allen cut down on the turnovers not because of Diggs. That and not kicking the ball into the end zone with 13 seconds left.
some might say based on how close they've come to beating KC twice in playoffs they were already over the hump offensively with diggs if they simply didnt make big end of game mistakes on ST.
you have a habit of engaging me then complaining about however i respond to you.
in this thread the quote of mine you first clipped was from a back and forth i had with WillVAB that started when he said "They can find an upgrade in the draft on a cheap rookie deal."
you (not me) chose to jump in mid stream and reply with a similar sentiment that their offense might be better without diggs.
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
hedging with the word "might" doesn't change the fact that the idea you chose to interject into a conversation about how easy it is/isnt to replace diggs was the bridge even farther of their offense being better without him.
if you have as many problems with the way i reply to you as you claim then i have a simple solution for you, save us both the time and don't quote/clip my posts? Or instead of cherry picking disagreements with my comments just post your own. i'd actually be interested to read an opinion re how the bills could be better without diggs even if i suspect it wouldnt be very persuasive.
It’s not complaining it’s pointing out that you’re a dick
At times. Just an observation. It also doesn’t change the fact that you made a strawman while accusing me of making a strawman, which was the point of the comment about your tone. Not a complaint, just an observation. You seem offended that I merely suggested they might end up better, not that they would end up better. It wasn’t even a disagreement, it was trying to have a legitimate discussion. You had an issue with my reply first, not the other way around.
Quote:
hedging with the word "might" doesn't change the fact that the idea you chose to interject into a conversation about how easy it is/isnt to replace diggs was the bridge even farther of their offense being better without him.
I’m not even sure what was cherry picked. It’s not hedging to say “might”, we don’t know what they have in mind. The argument for why they could be better has been made in the thread. It’s possible not having to force Diggs means leaning on the run more and less on Allen having to be a hero which in turns cuts down on the turnovers. They ran for more yards per game from week 11 on and went 6-1 without Allen’s turnovers really coming down much.
It’s a possible outcome that a guy like Leggete or Mitchell provides 75% of what Diggs did last year, and the offense is better because Allen’s turnovers come down. It’s also a possible outcome that Diggs might be on the back end of his career and a rookie provides more than Diggs would next year. That’s all anyone is discussing, possible outcomes, because nobody knows for sure, hence the word “might”. It’s not a disagreement, it’s a discussion.
RE: It’s not complaining it’s pointing out that you’re a dick
At times. Just an observation. It also doesn’t change the fact that you made a strawman while accusing me of making a strawman, which was the point of the comment about your tone. Not a complaint, just an observation. You seem offended that I merely suggested they might end up better, not that they would end up better. It wasn’t even a disagreement, it was trying to have a legitimate discussion. You had an issue with my reply first, not the other way around.
Quote:
hedging with the word "might" doesn't change the fact that the idea you chose to interject into a conversation about how easy it is/isnt to replace diggs was the bridge even farther of their offense being better without him.
I’m not even sure what was cherry picked. It’s not hedging to say “might”, we don’t know what they have in mind. The argument for why they could be better has been made in the thread. It’s possible not having to force Diggs means leaning on the run more and less on Allen having to be a hero which in turns cuts down on the turnovers. They ran for more yards per game from week 11 on and went 6-1 without Allen’s turnovers really coming down much.
It’s a possible outcome that a guy like Leggete or Mitchell provides 75% of what Diggs did last year, and the offense is better because Allen’s turnovers come down. It’s also a possible outcome that Diggs might be on the back end of his career and a rookie provides more than Diggs would next year. That’s all anyone is discussing, possible outcomes, because nobody knows for sure, hence the word “might”. It’s not a disagreement, it’s a discussion.
so you arent complaining im a dick, just "pointing out" and "observing" why my posts dissatisfy or annoy you?
if my posts bother you like i said id suggest just ignoring them. if you'd like me to make an effort to do the same ill do that but i had no issue with your initial reply beyond what i stated in my reply - which was disagreeing with your comment because teams dont usually get better when they lose their most talented players (i view both of our initial comments as on topic for the thread). you are the one who seems to get bent out of shape bc im "a dick" as these exchanges unfold which is why im suggesting maybe avoiding them?
im not saying they did the wrong thing bc i think diggs likely forced their hand as all the reporting suggests, but it's pretty inarguable they will be a worse team for 2024 because of it. 0 cap room gained, 0 picks gained. the idea they will "find an upgrade in the draft" is unlikely at best when they only own 2 top 125 picks (and have a bunch of other needs since they've lost a half dozen other starters this offseason).
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
Doubtful. “Forcing” the ball to Diggs led to a ton of success the majority of his time in Buffalo. Unless they replace him with a competent WR (or two) they are going to be easier to defend. I’d expect a PPG drop like in KC when Kelce got hurt, only Mahomes is simply better than Allen and makes it work. Maybe that’s what Buffalo needs though, to lean on their D and stop turning the ball over.
Which is what kind of worked in the stretch after the switch to Brady where they went 6-1, except Allen didn’t cut down the turnovers. If the Bills ever get over the hump, it’ll be because Allen cut down on the turnovers not because of Diggs. That and not kicking the ball into the end zone with 13 seconds left.
I don’t think thats true, you are really minimizing Diggs’ importance. If he’s not there their ability to make big plays decreases, opponents can key on the run, the entire gameplan changes. If Diggs isn’t replaced adequately they are going to have a tougher time winning games regardless of what Allen does, unless you think he’s just going to suddenly turn into Mahomes.
I’m not saying Diggs doesn’t need to be adequately replaced
But they might not need someone to be 100% of Diggs to have a better offense. Maybe relying less on the big play without Diggs cuts down on Allen’s turnovers. I don’t know if their defense is good enough to win if their explosive plays drop by 20% because of a rookie instead of Diggs, but I think they could be a better offense with 10% drop in explosive plays if it means Josh Allen’s interception percentage drops down to 2019-2021 levels.
It’s just one possible theory. Maybe the Bills completely collapse without Diggs. We’ll find out.
And you’d notice you’re the one who got bent out of shape because of an accusation you thought was made that wasn’t made.
i dont know how you intuit "bent out of shape" from a pretty plainly stated denial of the words you said i said that i did not say. if "keep up captain strawman" is what set you off you need to get a thicker skin or learn how to more accurately articulate what other people say.
not once in the thread did I say "Josh Allen will definitely be worse" which your quote plainly implied.
You misunderstanding the sentence doesn’t make it a strawman
Saying there’s not enough data to conclude yet that he’s going to get worse without Diggs because we don’t know if throwing to Diggs less led to his production dropping, doesn’t mean I’m saying you said it. Unlike you’re strawman here:
Quote:
i disagreed with you saying their offense would be better without diggs
Where did i say it would be better? I didn’t. I said maybe it might get better as a possible outcome. I never said I know how this is going to play out.
If you want to stop being a hypocrite, and have an actual football discussion I’m all for it. Otherwise no need to continue this.
Saying there’s not enough data to conclude yet that he’s going to get worse without Diggs because we don’t know if throwing to Diggs less led to his production dropping, doesn’t mean I’m saying you said it. Unlike you’re strawman here:
Quote:
i disagreed with you saying their offense would be better without diggs
Where did i say it would be better? I didn’t. I said maybe it might get better as a possible outcome. I never said I know how this is going to play out.
If you want to stop being a hypocrite, and have an actual football discussion I’m all for it. Otherwise no need to continue this.
unless im "misunderstanding" again you are acknowledging (bold) that the thing you were arguing re Josh Allen isn't something I said? I think I recently saw the definition of a word for someone who argues something different than what was being argued...
i agree we should probably move on because we "might be" ruining the thread over your original reply that you now seem not to believe in any way other than the general uncertainty of all future events?
To grasp, I wasn’t arguing anything from the beginning. I was simply discussing a potential outcome, which is what most of this thread has a lot about. I then corrected your incorrect 40% drop in targets, suggested that there isn’t enough data to definitively say why Allen’s numbers dropped at the end of the year. There’s no strawman because I never said that you said anything.
However you continue to accuse me of arguing in strawman while always saying in strawman that I said the offense WOULD get better. Which was never said. Par for the course really.
I have an idea why you get so on edge, but this really isn’t worth discussing any more since you have no interest in actual football discussions about the topic, given you’ve ignored all my posts about that to focus on a strawman that isn’t even there.
RE: Here’s the thing, that you seem to be continually failing
To grasp, I wasn’t arguing anything from the beginning. I was simply discussing a potential outcome, which is what most of this thread has a lot about. I then corrected your incorrect 40% drop in targets, suggested that there isn’t enough data to definitively say why Allen’s numbers dropped at the end of the year. There’s no strawman because I never said that you said anything.
However you continue to accuse me of arguing in strawman while always saying in strawman that I said the offense WOULD get better. Which was never said. Par for the course really.
I have an idea why you get so on edge, but this really isn’t worth discussing any more since you have no interest in actual football discussions about the topic, given you’ve ignored all my posts about that to focus on a strawman that isn’t even there.
here's a thought, if you dont actually have a point to make, and you dont like the way i respond to your non-thoughts, maybe just dont reply to a post i make responding to another post mid stream?
Non thoughts? Not sure how pointing out they might be better by not having to force it to Diggs’ ego and then elaborating on why that could be possible is a “non thought”. Are you made that you made up data and I corrected it? UConn seemed to have no problem having an actual discussion about it.
Again, I know why you feel this way and trust me you don’t have to. Enjoy the thread.
Non thoughts? Not sure how pointing out they might be better by not having to force it to Diggs’ ego and then elaborating on why that could be possible is a “non thought”. Are you made that you made up data and I corrected it? UConn seemed to have no problem having an actual discussion about it.
Again, I know why you feel this way and trust me you don’t have to. Enjoy the thread.
wasnt it you who said you were moving on like 10 replies ago and yet here you are? my first half dozen (?) replies to you were entirely football until you started complaining that "im a dick", yet apparently you just cant quit chart boy.
if i chart of all your "football" comments i replied to that you've since evolved to deny as things you dont believe or didnt say i said, will we get 10 more replies explaining why what you said wasnt really what you said?
Non thoughts? Not sure how pointing out they might be better by not having to force it to Diggs’ ego and then elaborating on why that could be possible is a “non thought”. Are you made that you made up data and I corrected it? UConn seemed to have no problem having an actual discussion about it.
Again, I know why you feel this way and trust me you don’t have to. Enjoy the thread.
wasnt it you who said you were moving on like 10 replies ago and yet here you are? my first half dozen (?) replies to you were entirely football until you started complaining that "im a dick", yet apparently you just cant quit chart boy.
if i chart of all your "football" comments i replied to that you've since evolved to deny as things you dont believe or didnt say i said, will we get 10 more replies explaining why what you said wasnt really what you said?
Literally your first reply was about about mythical bbi land where teams get better getting rid of good players and your second reply was about me accusing you of saying he wouldn’t definitely get worse and calling me “captain strawman” even though that’s not what was said, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
I’m not sure what I’ve denied or don’t believe, since I’ve never said I know for certain what will happen. Again, the whole thread, even your own posts are about potential outcomes of the trade and why it happened. But for some reason mine are “non thoughts”. If it was a non thought, why even bother replying? Enjoy your night!
First in NFL history. The most fungible and replaceable position in football. I love the top 3 WRs this year. But good God most of these guys who cause issues are not worth half what they get paid in the long run.
Diggs has been an asshoke his whole career. Buffalo bent over for him year after year. IMO it's bad trade. I wouldn't want him on my team. I O Now as he starts to decline he's going to be a bad guy for Stroud to have to baby sit
2nd rounder.
Bills will need WRs. Losing Diggs and Davis is huge. David may not be great but he did have some moments.
Crazy stuff.
While I think Diggs is declining, maybe a change of scenery will be a good thing for Diggs. And the Texans will now be a viable contender in the AFC.
For the Bills, a divorce was needed. The Bills will now be a major player in the draft trying to hook one of these excellent WR prospects.
While I think Diggs is declining, maybe a change of scenery will be a good thing for Diggs. And the Texans will now be a viable contender in the AFC.
For the Bills, a divorce was needed. The Bills will now be a major player in the draft trying to hook one of these excellent WR prospects.
They might need 2. Thomas and a Legette?
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for both teams.
While I think Diggs is declining, maybe a change of scenery will be a good thing for Diggs. And the Texans will now be a viable contender in the AFC.
For the Bills, a divorce was needed. The Bills will now be a major player in the draft trying to hook one of these excellent WR prospects.
They might need 2. Thomas and a Legette?
I'd be shocked if Thomas is not long gone
Bills get 2025 2nd (Vikings pick)
While I think Diggs is declining, maybe a change of scenery will be a good thing for Diggs. And the Texans will now be a viable contender in the AFC.
For the Bills, a divorce was needed. The Bills will now be a major player in the draft trying to hook one of these excellent WR prospects.
The Bills 1st at 28 plus a 2nd or 2 should allow them to move up maybe 10 slots or so to get maybe a top 5 WR. Agree ..
Bills get 2025 2nd (Vikings pick)
Apparently the 6th is this year.
Bills get 2025 2nd (Vikings pick)
Wow! That is bad. Let's reduce Anak's offer for Josh Allen to Jones and a 2nd for Allen.....
No sure how much of that remains in BUF as dead cap, but you have to believe it clears some space, if not short term definitely long term.
Not sure I'd say they got "fleeced" depending on how the cap straightens out.
This seems to be a trend with him
Their D was very good least even when they were obliterated with injuries. I expect them to be a top 5-8 D in 2024.
Sasquatch will be 28 in a month. As long as he's alive, the Bills are always in the mix. And their OL is excellent.
They need to add to the WR position before this trade.
Maybe work something out for Tee Higgins?
They need to add to the WR position before this trade.
Maybe work something out for Tee Higgins?
Doubt Cincy is going to help one of their main competitors in the AFC
maybe Daniel Jones true trade value is a 1st round pick in 2034.
Also think DC's have caught up with the short passing game and teams are going to be looking to throw the ball down the field as the Chiefs did in the Super Bowl.
I think it is, at least for now. They needed to get younger, but that transition is going to be painful. As long as Josh Allen is healthy, they’re likely a playoff team, but not a contender.
Also think DC's have caught up with the short passing game and teams are going to be looking to throw the ball down the field as the Chiefs did in the Super Bowl.
I'm sorry, I don't recall many downfield passes in the Super Bowl....maybe 1 by KC and 2 by SF?
he has 18.5m guaranteed left this year that was due to pay him 19m cash. nothing left guaranteed beyond that i think since his option bonus was 2023.
i would guess he wants a new deal from houston that folds his remaining 18.5m gtd into something closer to what ridley just got (47m gtd). may be the last time he has leverage in his career. bills eating a lot of money for an out year pick during josh allen's prime, so i dont think they do this unless their hand is forced.
I know we need a WR1 badly but so many become a real pain-in-the-ass. Giants have plenty of experience on this front already but let's see if they learned from it. Buyer beware come draft day.
Should be studied for years to come. This is how you build around your young QB.
they dont save much relative to keeping him.
this will actually add $3m of extra dead $ to their cap this year.
next year they gain an extra $20m which is about +15m over what they could have saved by keeping him this year and then cutting/trading him next year.
so their net savings is somewhere between 10-15m total, mostly free next year, and gaining a 2nd round pick next year, while not having him this year (and the day 3s).
the 2nd next year is a fine return for him but im pretty sure they'd have preferred him play out this last guaranteed year then dealt with him next year. he caught 107 passes last year, 108 the year before, 103 the year before that. he is still one of the handful of true WR1's in the game.
@Jason_OTC
The #Bills will carry about $31.1 million in dead money for Diggs. Pretty much a disaster extension for them. Wound up paying an extra $20.9M in 2022 and 2023 to come away with a net of less than a 2nd rounder next year.
@Jason_OTC
The #Bills will carry about $31.1 million in dead money for Diggs. Pretty much a disaster extension for them. Wound up paying an extra $20.9M in 2022 and 2023 to come away with a net of less than a 2nd rounder next year.
wow, this is worse than I thought. They must have had a lot of unrecognized guaranteed $$$ left.
Getting a 2nd for a guy they were probably going to have to cut after the season is a great deal.
snap of the fingers away from drafting someone better than the guy who has made 4 straight pro bowls for them with 4 straight 100 catch/1k+ yard seasons, 2 of them all pro.
how many receivers picked 28th or later did that last year or the year before? puka? so probably 1 out of more than 50 taken.
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They can find an upgrade in the draft on a cheap rookie deal.
snap of the fingers away from drafting someone better than the guy who has made 4 straight pro bowls for them with 4 straight 100 catch/1k+ yard seasons, 2 of them all pro.
how many receivers picked 28th or later did that last year or the year before? puka? so probably 1 out of more than 50 taken.
And who was drafted with the pick BUF traded away for Diggs? We can play this game all day.
Diggs is a bum hunter and a headcase. He’s a ghost in the playoffs vs good defenses. BUF was never going to get over the hump with him.
WRs need a QB to throw the ball to them, and whomever gets drafted by BUF is going to have the best QB in the game imv throwing to them.
Most WRs aren't happy unless they are unhappy. Fucking wackos. The better the WR is the wackier he is, usually.
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for both teams.
While I think Diggs is declining, maybe a change of scenery will be a good thing for Diggs. And the Texans will now be a viable contender in the AFC.
For the Bills, a divorce was needed. The Bills will now be a major player in the draft trying to hook one of these excellent WR prospects.
The Bills 1st at 28 plus a 2nd or 2 should allow them to move up maybe 10 slots or so to get maybe a top 5 WR. Agree ..
If they want Thomas they might have to get close to 10
Felt the same way. And don't forget that one play Diggs didn't make that may very well beat KC in last year's playoff game. It wasn't an easy catch, but it was one a great WR makes in that kind of spot. Unfair to kill Diggs over one tough play he doesn't make, but the Bills didn't forget, apparently.
Allen is so young still. Bills will be fine. WRs like Diggs are replaceable even if he's still very good.
"On Tuesday, Diggs chimed in on the question of whether he’s “essential” to the success of quarterback Josh Allen."
"It started with a post from former NFL quarterback Robert Griffin III, who raised the question of whether Diggs is “essential” to Allen’s high-level performances before declaring that he is. Someone named “The Peaky Pirate” responded with this: “Does Josh benefit from having a top tier receiver, yes. Is he essential to his success, no.”
"Enter Diggs himself, who replied to Mr. Pirate by saying this: “You sure?”
"On the surface, it’s odd that Diggs would feel compelled to engage with an account that has 218 followers. At a deeper level, it’s likely that Diggs has been hearing that talk and not saying anything and finally gave in to the temptation to share his views."
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 16455008 WillVAB said:
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They can find an upgrade in the draft on a cheap rookie deal.
snap of the fingers away from drafting someone better than the guy who has made 4 straight pro bowls for them with 4 straight 100 catch/1k+ yard seasons, 2 of them all pro.
how many receivers picked 28th or later did that last year or the year before? puka? so probably 1 out of more than 50 taken.
And who was drafted with the pick BUF traded away for Diggs? We can play this game all day.
Diggs is a bum hunter and a headcase. He’s a ghost in the playoffs vs good defenses. BUF was never going to get over the hump with him.
WRs need a QB to throw the ball to them, and whomever gets drafted by BUF is going to have the best QB in the game imv throwing to them.
minnesota replaced diggs with jefferson - a same year first round pick. not what buffalo returned here.
gabe davis got 24m gtd in FA, josh allen threw him the ball and he still wasn't 1/3 the player diggs is even with defenses focusing more on diggs.
kincaid was a 1st rd pick they traded up for last year, also wasn't nearly the player diggs was, even as a distant 2nd option behind diggs.
they gave dawson knox a pretty good contract and he hasn't been a highly productive tight end either. curtis samuel is a nice player and i think better than davis, but nowhere near diggs.
im not saying they did the wrong thing bc i think diggs likely forced their hand as all the reporting suggests, but it's pretty inarguable they will be a worse team for 2024 because of it. 0 cap room gained, 0 picks gained. the idea they will "find an upgrade in the draft" is unlikely at best when they only own 2 top 125 picks (and have a bunch of other needs since they've lost a half dozen other starters this offseason).
Terry Glenn, Joey Galloway, Keyshawn, TO, Moss, Chad Johnson, Marshall, OBJ, DJax, Dez, AB. For at least 3 decades it has been a diva position and as the CBA/rules changes created more positional value they are more in demand and therefore more enabled by teams willing to pay big contracts.
@Jason_OTC
The #Bills will carry about $31.1 million in dead money for Diggs. Pretty much a disaster extension for them. Wound up paying an extra $20.9M in 2022 and 2023 to come away with a net of less than a 2nd rounder next year.
Yet they still pulled the trigger. There's something to be said for recognizing a mistake and making a painful pivot. Hope Schoen has the same sort of fortitude.
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Henry McKenna
@henrycmckenna
A look at Stefon Diggs' season in splits for the #Bills #Billsmafia
🧨Week 1-6:🧨
Snap %: 82.4
Targets/game: 11
Receptions/game: 8.2
Rec Yards/game: 103.3
TD/game: 0.8
✅Week 1-10:✅
Snap %: 87.4
Targets/game: 10.2
Receptions/game: 7.3
Rec Yards/game: 86.8
TD/game: 0.7
📉Week 11-17:📉
Snap %: 63.3
Targets/game: 8.3
Receptions/game: 4.5
Rec Yards/game: 38
TD/game: 0.2
9:21 AM · Jan 2, 2024
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Diggs season - ( New Window )
📉Week 11-17:📉
Snap %: 63.3
Targets/game: 8.3
Receptions/game: 4.5
Rec Yards/game: 38
TD/game: 0.2
9:21 AM · Jan 2, 2024
·
2,074
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Diggs season - ( New Window )
Good post. And then Diggs was disappeared against KC in the playoff game after a pedestrian effort against Pittsburgh.
It's just a smart move by the Bills to assume Diggs has likely seen better days and the pain in the ass factor was really going to spike this offseason.
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after the first couple games this year he was invisible. 620 yards and 5 tds thru the first 6 games. Then 636 yards and 3tds the next 13 games... They got rid of him while he still had value imo. That Vikings pick could end up being near the top of the 2nd round.
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Henry McKenna
@henrycmckenna
A look at Stefon Diggs' season in splits for the #Bills #Billsmafia
🧨Week 1-6:🧨
Snap %: 82.4
Targets/game: 11
Receptions/game: 8.2
Rec Yards/game: 103.3
TD/game: 0.8
✅Week 1-10:✅
Snap %: 87.4
Targets/game: 10.2
Receptions/game: 7.3
Rec Yards/game: 86.8
TD/game: 0.7
📉Week 11-17:📉
Snap %: 63.3
Targets/game: 8.3
Receptions/game: 4.5
Rec Yards/game: 38
TD/game: 0.2
9:21 AM · Jan 2, 2024
·
2,074
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Diggs season - ( New Window )
believe dorsey got fired when they were 5-5, brady took over week 11+ and they started running a lot more (especially with allen).
i think there were a bunch of different factors with the bills offense last year, i dont think diggs just turned into a pumpkin starting week 11.
first 9 weeks he was solid every week. he averaged 81ypg his career in buf, so he was over that 6x, under 4x, lowest catches in those first 9 weeks was 6, which is a 100+ pace, so he was well over that pace.
week 10 is the den loss, his first low usage game of the year (i assume matched up w surtain).
8g in sept/oct he averaged 11.3 targets per game (90 total, 71% catch rate).
9g in nov/dec that dropped to 7.7 per game (70 total, 54% catch rate).
it wasnt just him btw - allen only threw 10 tds in last 7 games w brady (1.4 per gm) after throwing 19 in the first 10 (1.9 per game) w dorsey. his comp% dropped from 71% to 61% first half second half too (pretty sure the 2nd line here is weeks 9-17, not 16).
is it more likely their respective talents changed, or that the passing game/usage changed with a new coordinator whom mcdermott pushed to run more (which they then did)?
Firing Ken Dorsey Did Not Solve Bills’ No. 1 Problem: Sean McDermott - ( New Window )
Diggs has become a bit of a problem.
But, they have a QB.
We will see how that goes this year.
im not saying they did the wrong thing bc i think diggs likely forced their hand as all the reporting suggests, but it's pretty inarguable they will be a worse team for 2024 because of it. 0 cap room gained, 0 picks gained. the idea they will "find an upgrade in the draft" is unlikely at best when they only own 2 top 125 picks (and have a bunch of other needs since they've lost a half dozen other starters this offseason).
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
Vikes are not going to be good this year, so that pick is valuable.
Bills' fans are also talking about using their next year's first in the package, so the move-up for the WR could be a big one.
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im not saying they did the wrong thing bc i think diggs likely forced their hand as all the reporting suggests, but it's pretty inarguable they will be a worse team for 2024 because of it. 0 cap room gained, 0 picks gained. the idea they will "find an upgrade in the draft" is unlikely at best when they only own 2 top 125 picks (and have a bunch of other needs since they've lost a half dozen other starters this offseason).
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
Doubtful. “Forcing” the ball to Diggs led to a ton of success the majority of his time in Buffalo. Unless they replace him with a competent WR (or two) they are going to be easier to defend. I’d expect a PPG drop like in KC when Kelce got hurt, only Mahomes is simply better than Allen and makes it work. Maybe that’s what Buffalo needs though, to lean on their D and stop turning the ball over.
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im not saying they did the wrong thing bc i think diggs likely forced their hand as all the reporting suggests, but it's pretty inarguable they will be a worse team for 2024 because of it. 0 cap room gained, 0 picks gained. the idea they will "find an upgrade in the draft" is unlikely at best when they only own 2 top 125 picks (and have a bunch of other needs since they've lost a half dozen other starters this offseason).
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
ah yes the mythical land of bbi where teams get better by replacing talented players with less talented players.
after dorsey got fired diggs targets went down by about 40%, if they are "better because they dont need to force it to him" why in that period did josh allen's completion percentage go down a full 10%, interception% go up to the worst since his rookie year, and tds also go down?
im sure the bills had their off-field reasons but thinking they are better on-field in the present having subtracted one of the most productive and durable wrs in the nfl while gaining literally nothing in the present is an argument i doubt even the bills biggest homer would make.
But, they have a QB.
We will see how that goes this year.
I am going to push back slightly in this. Shakir has shown some interesting upside. He looks fearless over between the hashes (for his size) and has some real burst once he gets the ball.
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Curtis Samuel and bunch of scrubs drafted in the 5th round.
But, they have a QB.
We will see how that goes this year.
I am going to push back slightly in this. Shakir has shown some interesting upside. He looks fearless over between the hashes (for his size) and has some real burst once he gets the ball.
i like each of shakir, kincaid, and samuel but we all know there's a big difference between being a nice #2/3 option next to an alpha who gets shadowed and doubled, vs then replacing the 150+ targets that went to the alpha. diggs was also extremely durable despite crazy volume (samuel hasnt been as durable in lower volume and kincaid had some concussions last year).
it seems extremely likely they are going to use 1 of their 2 day 1/2 picks on a WR.
Just pointing out that Shakir looks like a good player and the Bills might feel positive about him taking on more responsibility.
ah yes the mythical land of bbi where teams get better by replacing talented players with less talented players.
after dorsey got fired diggs targets went down by about 40%, if they are "better because they dont need to force it to him" why in that period did josh allen's completion percentage go down a full 10%, interception% go up to the worst since his rookie year, and tds also go down?
im sure the bills had their off-field reasons but thinking they are better on-field in the present having subtracted one of the most productive and durable wrs in the nfl while gaining literally nothing in the present is an argument i doubt even the bills biggest homer would make.
I know your land of spreadsheets doesn’t account for it, but on field dynamics matter.
Stefon Diggs averaged just over 10 targets a game from weeks 1-10 (102 tgt) and averaged 86.8 y/g.
Week 11 is when the Bills made the switch from Dorsey to Brady, the rest of the season, 8.3 tgt/g, 58 tgt, 45 y/g... That’s not a 40% drop.
The Bills went 6-1, their ppg jumped slightly from 26.2 to 27. Josh Allen’s drop in production, although his interceptions per game dropped by .1, likely had more to do with playing the Philly, Dallas and KC defenses as opposed to the Raiders, Washington, Giants and Tampa defenses.
Diggs targets dropping by 1.7 a game isn’t enough to say Josh Allen will definitely be worse with say Xavier Leggette instead of Diggs.
Just pointing out that Shakir looks like a good player and the Bills might feel positive about him taking on more responsibility.
agreed, but if diggs wasnt a headcase im sure they'd have been happier to have him back and just slide shakir's expanded role in for the departing gabe davis.
they have lost a lot of other starters this offseason and only have 2 premium picks. needing to use 1 or both on pass catchers is non-ideal. post-diggs trade they've lost the 3rd most in the league (this model is largely based on plus/minus and epa).
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In comment 16455458 Eric on Li said:
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im not saying they did the wrong thing bc i think diggs likely forced their hand as all the reporting suggests, but it's pretty inarguable they will be a worse team for 2024 because of it. 0 cap room gained, 0 picks gained. the idea they will "find an upgrade in the draft" is unlikely at best when they only own 2 top 125 picks (and have a bunch of other needs since they've lost a half dozen other starters this offseason).
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
Doubtful. “Forcing” the ball to Diggs led to a ton of success the majority of his time in Buffalo. Unless they replace him with a competent WR (or two) they are going to be easier to defend. I’d expect a PPG drop like in KC when Kelce got hurt, only Mahomes is simply better than Allen and makes it work. Maybe that’s what Buffalo needs though, to lean on their D and stop turning the ball over.
Which is what kind of worked in the stretch after the switch to Brady where they went 6-1, except Allen didn’t cut down the turnovers. If the Bills ever get over the hump, it’ll be because Allen cut down on the turnovers not because of Diggs. That and not kicking the ball into the end zone with 13 seconds left.
Diggs targets dropping by 1.7 a game isn’t enough to say Josh Allen will definitely be worse with say Xavier Leggette instead of Diggs.
keep up captain strawman, i never once said "josh allen will definitely be worse" i actually never argued josh allen will be worse at all, i disagreed with you saying their offense would be better without diggs by pointing out that their passing game did in fact get worse when they targeted him less.
In comment 16455841 ajr2456 said:
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
In response to “they might be better” not having force Diggs the ball 10 times a game? Get a grip, dude. You can’t have normal conversations. I wasn’t even being snarky, it’s an actual possibility. We don’t know what the Bills plan is going to be on offense without Diggs and who the replacement is. Maybe they think Leggette + someone on the roster they’re high on will run more efficiently than forcing 10 targets to Diggs, we have no idea until they hit the field. That’s why I said they MIGHT be better.
The “definitely say Allen will be worse” sentence was in reference to there being other factors to why Allen’s numbers went down, and not that it was just throwing less to Diggs. Not that you said he’d definitely get worse without Diggs. Don’t hurt yourself reaching for the strawman.
Which is what kind of worked in the stretch after the switch to Brady where they went 6-1, except Allen didn’t cut down the turnovers. If the Bills ever get over the hump, it’ll be because Allen cut down on the turnovers not because of Diggs. That and not kicking the ball into the end zone with 13 seconds left.
some might say based on how close they've come to beating KC twice in playoffs they were already over the hump offensively with diggs if they simply didnt make big end of game mistakes on ST.
in this thread the quote of mine you first clipped was from a back and forth i had with WillVAB that started when he said "They can find an upgrade in the draft on a cheap rookie deal."
you (not me) chose to jump in mid stream and reply with a similar sentiment that their offense might be better without diggs.
In comment 16455841 ajr2456 said:
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
hedging with the word "might" doesn't change the fact that the idea you chose to interject into a conversation about how easy it is/isnt to replace diggs was the bridge even farther of their offense being better without him.
if you have as many problems with the way i reply to you as you claim then i have a simple solution for you, save us both the time and don't quote/clip my posts? Or instead of cherry picking disagreements with my comments just post your own. i'd actually be interested to read an opinion re how the bills could be better without diggs even if i suspect it wouldnt be very persuasive.
I’m not even sure what was cherry picked. It’s not hedging to say “might”, we don’t know what they have in mind. The argument for why they could be better has been made in the thread. It’s possible not having to force Diggs means leaning on the run more and less on Allen having to be a hero which in turns cuts down on the turnovers. They ran for more yards per game from week 11 on and went 6-1 without Allen’s turnovers really coming down much.
It’s a possible outcome that a guy like Leggete or Mitchell provides 75% of what Diggs did last year, and the offense is better because Allen’s turnovers come down. It’s also a possible outcome that Diggs might be on the back end of his career and a rookie provides more than Diggs would next year. That’s all anyone is discussing, possible outcomes, because nobody knows for sure, hence the word “might”. It’s not a disagreement, it’s a discussion.
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hedging with the word "might" doesn't change the fact that the idea you chose to interject into a conversation about how easy it is/isnt to replace diggs was the bridge even farther of their offense being better without him.
I’m not even sure what was cherry picked. It’s not hedging to say “might”, we don’t know what they have in mind. The argument for why they could be better has been made in the thread. It’s possible not having to force Diggs means leaning on the run more and less on Allen having to be a hero which in turns cuts down on the turnovers. They ran for more yards per game from week 11 on and went 6-1 without Allen’s turnovers really coming down much.
It’s a possible outcome that a guy like Leggete or Mitchell provides 75% of what Diggs did last year, and the offense is better because Allen’s turnovers come down. It’s also a possible outcome that Diggs might be on the back end of his career and a rookie provides more than Diggs would next year. That’s all anyone is discussing, possible outcomes, because nobody knows for sure, hence the word “might”. It’s not a disagreement, it’s a discussion.
so you arent complaining im a dick, just "pointing out" and "observing" why my posts dissatisfy or annoy you?
if my posts bother you like i said id suggest just ignoring them. if you'd like me to make an effort to do the same ill do that but i had no issue with your initial reply beyond what i stated in my reply - which was disagreeing with your comment because teams dont usually get better when they lose their most talented players (i view both of our initial comments as on topic for the thread). you are the one who seems to get bent out of shape bc im "a dick" as these exchanges unfold which is why im suggesting maybe avoiding them?
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In comment 16455841 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16455458 Eric on Li said:
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im not saying they did the wrong thing bc i think diggs likely forced their hand as all the reporting suggests, but it's pretty inarguable they will be a worse team for 2024 because of it. 0 cap room gained, 0 picks gained. the idea they will "find an upgrade in the draft" is unlikely at best when they only own 2 top 125 picks (and have a bunch of other needs since they've lost a half dozen other starters this offseason).
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
Doubtful. “Forcing” the ball to Diggs led to a ton of success the majority of his time in Buffalo. Unless they replace him with a competent WR (or two) they are going to be easier to defend. I’d expect a PPG drop like in KC when Kelce got hurt, only Mahomes is simply better than Allen and makes it work. Maybe that’s what Buffalo needs though, to lean on their D and stop turning the ball over.
Which is what kind of worked in the stretch after the switch to Brady where they went 6-1, except Allen didn’t cut down the turnovers. If the Bills ever get over the hump, it’ll be because Allen cut down on the turnovers not because of Diggs. That and not kicking the ball into the end zone with 13 seconds left.
I don’t think thats true, you are really minimizing Diggs’ importance. If he’s not there their ability to make big plays decreases, opponents can key on the run, the entire gameplan changes. If Diggs isn’t replaced adequately they are going to have a tougher time winning games regardless of what Allen does, unless you think he’s just going to suddenly turn into Mahomes.
It’s just one possible theory. Maybe the Bills completely collapse without Diggs. We’ll find out.
i dont know how you intuit "bent out of shape" from a pretty plainly stated denial of the words you said i said that i did not say. if "keep up captain strawman" is what set you off you need to get a thicker skin or learn how to more accurately articulate what other people say.
not once in the thread did I say "Josh Allen will definitely be worse" which your quote plainly implied.
Where did i say it would be better? I didn’t. I said maybe it might get better as a possible outcome. I never said I know how this is going to play out.
If you want to stop being a hypocrite, and have an actual football discussion I’m all for it. Otherwise no need to continue this.
WRs have it made. They can basically do whatever they want short of murder and get rewarded for it.
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Making Diggs a free agent this summer
WRs have it made. They can basically do whatever they want short of murder and get rewarded for it.
Donte Stallworth did kill someone and got to play football again, so they can actually commit murder.
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i disagreed with you saying their offense would be better without diggs
Where did i say it would be better? I didn’t. I said maybe it might get better as a possible outcome. I never said I know how this is going to play out.
If you want to stop being a hypocrite, and have an actual football discussion I’m all for it. Otherwise no need to continue this.
unless im "misunderstanding" again you are acknowledging (bold) that the thing you were arguing re Josh Allen isn't something I said? I think I recently saw the definition of a word for someone who argues something different than what was being argued...
i agree we should probably move on because we "might be" ruining the thread over your original reply that you now seem not to believe in any way other than the general uncertainty of all future events?
In comment 16455841 ajr2456 said:
Or the offense might be better because they don’t have to worry about forcing Diggs targets to keep him happy.
However you continue to accuse me of arguing in strawman while always saying in strawman that I said the offense WOULD get better. Which was never said. Par for the course really.
I have an idea why you get so on edge, but this really isn’t worth discussing any more since you have no interest in actual football discussions about the topic, given you’ve ignored all my posts about that to focus on a strawman that isn’t even there.
However you continue to accuse me of arguing in strawman while always saying in strawman that I said the offense WOULD get better. Which was never said. Par for the course really.
I have an idea why you get so on edge, but this really isn’t worth discussing any more since you have no interest in actual football discussions about the topic, given you’ve ignored all my posts about that to focus on a strawman that isn’t even there.
here's a thought, if you dont actually have a point to make, and you dont like the way i respond to your non-thoughts, maybe just dont reply to a post i make responding to another post mid stream?
Again, I know why you feel this way and trust me you don’t have to. Enjoy the thread.
Again, I know why you feel this way and trust me you don’t have to. Enjoy the thread.
wasnt it you who said you were moving on like 10 replies ago and yet here you are? my first half dozen (?) replies to you were entirely football until you started complaining that "im a dick", yet apparently you just cant quit chart boy.
if i chart of all your "football" comments i replied to that you've since evolved to deny as things you dont believe or didnt say i said, will we get 10 more replies explaining why what you said wasnt really what you said?
Quote:
In comment 16456625 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Making Diggs a free agent this summer
WRs have it made. They can basically do whatever they want short of murder and get rewarded for it.
Donte Stallworth did kill someone and got to play football again, so they can actually commit murder.
That’s right, completely forgot about that.
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Non thoughts? Not sure how pointing out they might be better by not having to force it to Diggs’ ego and then elaborating on why that could be possible is a “non thought”. Are you made that you made up data and I corrected it? UConn seemed to have no problem having an actual discussion about it.
Again, I know why you feel this way and trust me you don’t have to. Enjoy the thread.
wasnt it you who said you were moving on like 10 replies ago and yet here you are? my first half dozen (?) replies to you were entirely football until you started complaining that "im a dick", yet apparently you just cant quit chart boy.
if i chart of all your "football" comments i replied to that you've since evolved to deny as things you dont believe or didnt say i said, will we get 10 more replies explaining why what you said wasnt really what you said?
Literally your first reply was about about mythical bbi land where teams get better getting rid of good players and your second reply was about me accusing you of saying he wouldn’t definitely get worse and calling me “captain strawman” even though that’s not what was said, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
I’m not sure what I’ve denied or don’t believe, since I’ve never said I know for certain what will happen. Again, the whole thread, even your own posts are about potential outcomes of the trade and why it happened. But for some reason mine are “non thoughts”. If it was a non thought, why even bother replying? Enjoy your night!
Donte Stallworth did kill someone and got to play football again, so they can actually commit murder.
That’s right, completely forgot about that.
Pretty insane that he got 30 days in jail, and got to play football again after driving drunk and killing someone.
Diggs has been an asshoke his whole career. Buffalo bent over for him year after year. IMO it's bad trade. I wouldn't want him on my team. I O Now as he starts to decline he's going to be a bad guy for Stroud to have to baby sit