-Daboll loves Nabers
-RV and Woodstock's connected friend say we aren't interested in JJM
-We have been trying to trade up for Maye, but unwilling to pay whatever it takes (reportedly more than 3 1sts)
-Hughes said we like JJM a lot, supposedly this leak angered Schoen
-Vikings are supposedly all in on Maye and appear likely to outbid the Giants if NE is dealing
What this tells me:
Schoen isn't going to pay an insane price for Maye at 3 and that is smart on his part. The odds aren't in our favor trading all that draft capital for a boom or bust prospect when our roster needs a lot of help.
Nabers is our top WR target and as many have speculated Daboll loves the possibilities of having a true Z receiver able to attack defenses from everywhere on the field.
JJM is likely on the table at 6, but not via tradeup, the recent reports about us not liking him smell like they could be an attempt at spreading disinformation knowing we aren't likely to trade up.
My takeaway:
Schoen is planning on letting the draft come to him knowing he will get MHJ, Nabers or JJM at 6 unless he is blown away with a trade-down offer. This is the safest and statistically most sound approach for a team with so many holes.
What do you think?
Its not so bad if you imagine Nabers with Jaxon Dart or Cam Ward or Shedeur Sanders or maybe even Quinn Ewers in 2025, plus full use of the rookie qb contract since DJ could be completely off the books then.
You can never know, even when you have conviction in a guy it's still you just betting on his traits having a good chance to evolve into an elite NFL QB. Maye is not a generational talent, he's a boom or bust guy and odds are he will be more mediocre than elite. If our roster was solid, we could afford to take that gamble for 3+ 1sts.
Experts are wrong as often as they are right. The best player can go south for a myriad of reasons.
Any non-"blue chip" player could be the next TFB.
If the current regime is playing scared they are already fired.
The meaningless wins put the team in the draft position they are in. I think they should play it out and take their BPA or trade down if it makes the team better.
Either way I'll check the homepage after the draft and see where the chips fell. I won't be filtering through the dissent here in Pete's corner.
I meant RV separately reported a lack of interest in JJM, Woodstock's source was a very credible guy in the know. I think these leaks are more likely smokey misinformation this late in the process. Who knows though, I do get a very strong feeling we are staying at 6 and taking MHJ, Nabers or JJM unless we get a ridiculous trade down offer.
Daboll wants to juice up the offense, fine. Let's see the juice.
In comment 16460749 Woodstock said:
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I usually never get inside info but I was told 2nd hand from an impeccable source that the Giants are not interested in McCarthy. WR was implied.
This isn't a troll
No his name is just Woodstock
Daboll wants to juice up the offense, fine. Let's see the juice.
I generally do not agree with you- at all but there a few times that I do. This is one of those times. If, IF the Giants play the Jones at QB for 2024 (without a viable drafted replacement) then they have to win at least 9 games and Jones himself has to account for 30 TD's (with at least 24 of those being via the air.
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I think if the Giants are running it back with Jones the expectation should be 10+ wins and a playoff appearance at minimum.
Daboll wants to juice up the offense, fine. Let's see the juice.
I generally do not agree with you- at all but there a few times that I do. This is one of those times. If, IF the Giants play the Jones at QB for 2024 (without a viable drafted replacement) then they have to win at least 9 games and Jones himself has to account for 30 TD's (with at least 24 of those being via the air.
+2. No excuses. No talk of rebuilds. Paying Jones $40M and not identifying it as a mistake would require a playoff appearance for me at minimum.
Maye cannot be compared to CJ Stroud. CJ Stroud had a safe floor with a real upside to his ceiling. What he did against an NFL level defense against Georgia in the semifinals was truly elite and no QBs in this draft have anything close to that performance on their resumè. Most of the actual football people in Carolina wanted Stroud, but Tepper loved Young based on who knows what.
Also, the Texans didn't trade up for Stroud. Look at the more relevant example: Bryce Young was more of a boom or bust QB and Carolina traded their future for him. It's looking more than likely they will struggle to get out of the hole they're in for a long time.
Third, all of our scouts have different opinions that filter up to Schoen. There is no way all of our Scouts are unanimously telling Schoen Maye is the answer. If Maye was that sure of a thing and not a boom or bust prospect, NE would never entertain trading down and it wouldn't matter because Maye would go 1 or 2. That is undoubtedly not the situation though.
Oh I completely agree, and as Terps said if we run it back with DJ and Nabers + Benson or something then 9-10 wins is the minimum. I can still dream about Cam Ward or Jaxon Dart being our pick in 2025 and turning into an elite QB with a great supporting cast and clean slate for QB cap, can't I? We all have to dream.
-Caleb goes 1...no chance trade up.
- Daniels goes 2...no chance to trade up
- Maye goes 3...either Pats won't trade or they want something insane. Either way we can't feasibly get him.
- Vikings offer 3 one's and two 2's for JJM at 4...Cards tell us we'd need something similar just to move up from 6. Daboll and Schoen don't think he's a prospect to do that for.
- Daboll doesn't love Nix or Pennix and doesn't see them as close to a first round prospect.
I see people saying if we don't take a QB at 6 it means this regime is "doubling down" on Jones or proving that they are just going business as usual for the giants. But what about that scenario above? What if they love the top 3 and literally don't have the opportunity to get one? What if they've offered three ones to the Pats and been rebuffed? Can we really say that black and white that no QB at 6 means they are all in on jones? I don't think that's reality.
At that point Jones is their guy, and I'm my opinion they should sink or swim with him.
A sixth year of Daniel Jones. You have got to be fucking kidding me.
-Caleb goes 1...no chance trade up.
- Daniels goes 2...no chance to trade up
- Maye goes 3...either Pats won't trade or they want something insane. Either way we can't feasibly get him.
- Vikings offer 3 one's and two 2's for JJM at 4...Cards tell us we'd need something similar just to move up from 6. Daboll and Schoen don't think he's a prospect to do that for.
- Daboll doesn't love Nix or Pennix and doesn't see them as close to a first round prospect.
I see people saying if we don't take a QB at 6 it means this regime is "doubling down" on Jones or proving that they are just going business as usual for the giants. But what about that scenario above? What if they love the top 3 and literally don't have the opportunity to get one? What if they've offered three ones to the Pats and been rebuffed? Can we really say that black and white that no QB at 6 means they are all in on jones? I don't think that's reality.
Good point, they are rebuilding what was one of the worst run franchises in the league for better part of a decade. They have to take the best bets possible to build. We aren't in a position to take boom or bust gambles with inordinate trade packages. For the record, I do not think the Vikings are going to trade the same package for JJM as they would for Maye. The Vikings Asshat report makes a lot of sense saying they are all in on Maye with Penix at 11 as the fallback. I think the odds of JJM making it to 6 are higher than the odds of Nabers making it to 6 honestly.
Jones is working very hard and still hope to be ready, but i can verify, his neck remains a concern.
His knee is progressing fine.
Jones is working very hard and still hope to be ready, but i can verify, his neck remains a concern.
His knee is progressing fine.
That is so sad, that diving slide attempt in the Cowboys game when he had his Neck crunched down with 250+ lbs of force just seemed really worrisome. And sure enough, it's a very scary and sad problem. Thanks for the info, really sad though.
-Caleb goes 1...no chance trade up.
- Daniels goes 2...no chance to trade up
- Maye goes 3...either Pats won't trade or they want something insane. Either way we can't feasibly get him.
- Vikings offer 3 one's and two 2's for JJM at 4...Cards tell us we'd need something similar just to move up from 6. Daboll and Schoen don't think he's a prospect to do that for.
- Daboll doesn't love Nix or Pennix and doesn't see them as close to a first round prospect.
I see people saying if we don't take a QB at 6 it means this regime is "doubling down" on Jones or proving that they are just going business as usual for the giants. But what about that scenario above? What if they love the top 3 and literally don't have the opportunity to get one? What if they've offered three ones to the Pats and been rebuffed? Can we really say that black and white that no QB at 6 means they are all in on jones? I don't think that's reality.
They are petrified that Jones might play well and DOOM the franchise.
You can’t make it up.
Jones is a risk, we are drafting a QB, we wont give up the world to do it.
Put the tanto away and cast aside your thoughts of Seppuku.
It’s April, it will be OK even if the Giants lose.
At that point Jones is their guy, and I'm my opinion they should sink or swim with him.
A sixth year of Daniel Jones. You have got to be fucking kidding me.
Wait until the excuses next year at this time!
At that point Jones is their guy, and I'm my opinion they should sink or swim with him.
A sixth year of Daniel Jones. You have got to be fucking kidding me.
I agree, but I have hope that Schoen might have a good idea of a QB he can get at 6 without having to give up anything extra. I think the odds are in his favor right now. Nabers isn't a bad fallback option, or trade down for a haul. I think he's playing his hand well, the worst thing he could do is trade the farm for a mediocre or less QB.
At that point Jones is their guy, and I'm my opinion they should sink or swim with him.
A sixth year of Daniel Jones. You have got to be fucking kidding me.
I have no inside info and I could be completely wrong, and you may think no more of Lock than you do of Jones, but I think overall BBI is discounting too much the possibility that Lock either outplays Jones, or Jones isn't ready/gets banged up, and Lock is our starting QB for much of the season. He should at least be given a shot at it unless Jones is playing great, which is unlikely.
Jones is working very hard and still hope to be ready, but i can verify, his neck remains a concern.
His knee is progressing fine.
Then why was he cleared and why did he play against the Raiders?
But I’m a nobody.
It will be cool to start seeing mock draft threads before the leaves change colors this fall.
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In those three years they will have paid him $82M and drafted zero QBs (assuming they don't get one in a couple weeks).
At that point Jones is their guy, and I'm my opinion they should sink or swim with him.
A sixth year of Daniel Jones. You have got to be fucking kidding me.
I have no inside info and I could be completely wrong, and you may think no more of Lock than you do of Jones, but I think overall BBI is discounting too much the possibility that Lock either outplays Jones, or Jones isn't ready/gets banged up, and Lock is our starting QB for much of the season. He should at least be given a shot at it unless Jones is playing great, which is unlikely.
While I agree with you, I don't think that provides solace for Mr Terps.
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Healed completely.
Jones is working very hard and still hope to be ready, but i can verify, his neck remains a concern.
His knee is progressing fine.
Then why was he cleared and why did he play against the Raiders?
Maybe Jones was overly optimistic about his condition? Perhaps he wasn't fully forthcoming in the tests? Myriad reasons that could happen.
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Healed completely.
Jones is working very hard and still hope to be ready, but i can verify, his neck remains a concern.
His knee is progressing fine.
Then why was he cleared and why did he play against the Raiders?
Because this organization is run by idiots from the top on down.
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Healed completely.
Jones is working very hard and still hope to be ready, but i can verify, his neck remains a concern.
His knee is progressing fine.
Then why was he cleared and why did he play against the Raiders?
Sean, I think it's very clear that they panicked after Taylor went down in the Jets game and DeVito had to play. More medical mismanagement from NYG. An underrated, yet common theme around here for several years running now.
Regardless I will agree it's nice that there's a lot of information out there that doesn't necessarily jive with one another. We shouldn't be letting draft strategy out there..
But I’m a nobody.
It will be cool to start seeing mock draft threads before the leaves change colors this fall.
Are you on record for QB no matter what at 6? Would you trade 2024, 2025 & 2026 first round picks to move to 3?
At that point Jones is their guy, and I'm my opinion they should sink or swim with him.
A sixth year of Daniel Jones. You have got to be fucking kidding me.
I agree and want jones oiut. I'm just asking a realistic question - what if they have no realistic shot at the top 4 and they have negative views of pennix and nix in regards to first round picks? You would honestly say they have to take pennix at 6 despite not liking him just to prove a point about jones?
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In those three years they will have paid him $82M and drafted zero QBs (assuming they don't get one in a couple weeks).
At that point Jones is their guy, and I'm my opinion they should sink or swim with him.
A sixth year of Daniel Jones. You have got to be fucking kidding me.
I agree and want jones oiut. I'm just asking a realistic question - what if they have no realistic shot at the top 4 and they have negative views of pennix and nix in regards to first round picks? You would honestly say they have to take pennix at 6 despite not liking him just to prove a point about jones?
He loves Penix and would absolutely take him at 6 if he was Schoen. I wouldn't be unhappy if they took Penix at 6, but barring a trade-down I don't see Penix to NYG in rd1. It's Nabers or JJM at 6 if you ask me.
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I think the Giants are idiots hitching their wagon to Jones, given his subpar play and injury history.
But I’m a nobody.
It will be cool to start seeing mock draft threads before the leaves change colors this fall.
Are you on record for QB no matter what at 6? Would you trade 2024, 2025 & 2026 first round picks to move to 3?
I know you're not asking me, but I wouldn't make that trade because there are 2 QBs who will be on the board at 6 that are as likely to succeed in the NFL as the guys you'd need to trade up for.
I think saying Maye and McCarthy are clearly better than Penix and Nix is nuts. I think all four are talented in different ways, and perfectly fine options at 6 around which to start building an offense around their respective qualities.
And what would we be missing out on? A Myles Garrett/Nick Bosa type the rusher? Nope. A Trent Williams type offensive tackle? Nope.
A wide receiver. The position college football is turning out like widgets.
It's one thing to look at this from a scouting and raw scoring perspective. It's another to look at this from a team building perspective.
Schoen likely has a feel for this and knows he can get Daboll's boy Nabers or JJM at 6. I believe it will come down to those two at 6. In all likelihood one of the two will be there at 6 unless JJM goes before Maye and MHJ goes before Nabers, which seems highly improbable for both of those surprises to happen.
Of course it could be a total disaster. Who knows? But swing for the fences. We’re in QB hell as it is.
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In comment 16462243 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I think the Giants are idiots hitching their wagon to Jones, given his subpar play and injury history.
But I’m a nobody.
It will be cool to start seeing mock draft threads before the leaves change colors this fall.
Are you on record for QB no matter what at 6? Would you trade 2024, 2025 & 2026 first round picks to move to 3?
I know you're not asking me, but I wouldn't make that trade because there are 2 QBs who will be on the board at 6 that are as likely to succeed in the NFL as the guys you'd need to trade up for.
I think saying Maye and McCarthy are clearly better than Penix and Nix is nuts. I think all four are talented in different ways, and perfectly fine options at 6 around which to start building an offense around their respective qualities.
And what would we be missing out on? A Myles Garrett/Nick Bosa type the rusher? Nope. A Trent Williams type offensive tackle? Nope.
A wide receiver. The position college football is turning out like widgets.
It's one thing to look at this from a scouting and raw scoring perspective. It's another to look at this from a team building perspective.
To be fair, Nabers is up there with the most promising WR prospects of the past decade. I agree WRs are being churned out by CFB, but Nabers is very special and I see why Daboll is supposedly salivating at the thought of Nabers.
Sometimes Jordan seems like he is winging it.
The assumption is we suck in 2024 and will be drafting near the top again, but what if we luck into a few more wins. Stranger things have happened (see last year). Trying to get a top QB at 6 would typically take a lot less draft capital than trying to move up from the 10 - 15 range. If we have a chance this year, take it! don't want to keep hearing wait until next year.
Right now, Jones' neck is a problem.
That's the huge take-away.
Right now, Jones' neck is a problem.
That's the huge take-away.
Man, a neck injury is nothing to trifle with.
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Raanan has said that Daniels is the first choice, followed by JJM, and that they like Maye but not as much as assumed.
Sometimes Jordan seems like he is winging it.
Yeah, I see no chance the Giants all the sudden changed their minds about Maye after working for months on trading up for him. I just don't think we are in the position roster wise to pay the price and Schoen isn't the type to get fleeced in a deal for everything he's got. The Vikings being all in on Maye makes sense because their roster (especially on offense) is ready go be truly elite with the right QB.
Yes, there are some ramifications financially with the contract, but it's not as bad as it could have been considering the position he plays, but where the injury is really giving Schoen and Daboll new life is in the court of public opinion. They don't have to admit they completely fell on their faces with that contract, they simply need to realize the very real injury concerns and pivot. No one can question that like they would if Jones was fully healthy.
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and then just magically get a QB next year is complete BS. We can't control what happens this coming draft round 1, let alone a draft in 2025.. The Giants will NOT take a WR in the high first round to then play lose-lose-lose all season for a QB..
The assumption is we suck in 2024 and will be drafting near the top again, but what if we luck into a few more wins. Stranger things have happened (see last year). Trying to get a top QB at 6 would typically take a lot less draft capital than trying to move up from the 10 - 15 range. If we have a chance this year, take it! don't want to keep hearing wait until next year.
I don't think that's Schoen assumption if we take Nabers. He's betting on us being better off with Nabers's high potential to be a top WR in the league or JJM being as good or better than Maye vs trading JJM or Nabers plus 2025 1st and 2026 1st for Maye whom likelu has a better chance to be mediocre than elite
If all 3 are gone then we get MHJ, not a bad option?
If Maye, McCarthy and Nabers are all gone, and assuming Williams is as well, that means NYG is picking between Daniels and MHjr. Where do we sign up for that scenario!?
-Caleb goes 1...no chance trade up.
- Daniels goes 2...no chance to trade up
- Maye goes 3...either Pats won't trade or they want something insane. Either way we can't feasibly get him.
- Vikings offer 3 one's and two 2's for JJM at 4...Cards tell us we'd need something similar just to move up from 6. Daboll and Schoen don't think he's a prospect to do that for.
- Daboll doesn't love Nix or Pennix and doesn't see them as close to a first round prospect.
I see people saying if we don't take a QB at 6 it means this regime is "doubling down" on Jones or proving that they are just going business as usual for the giants. But what about that scenario above? What if they love the top 3 and literally don't have the opportunity to get one? What if they've offered three ones to the Pats and been rebuffed? Can we really say that black and white that no QB at 6 means they are all in on jones? I don't think that's reality.
If this plays out as you outline, and Jones isn't cut as a post-June 1st casualty, then this would be tripling down on Jones, not doubling down. The double down occurred with this asinine second contract.
To me, if you can't secure the QB-of-the-future prospect in this draft, roll with Lock, Cutlets (and maybe a late round QB or UDFA as option #3) and cut Jones because we have reached a circular error in Excel with this guy. He's not working.
So, end the relationship like Denver is doing with a HoF caliber QB in Wilson. Enough of this experiment.
Ask yourself this question. Do you really think Jones is materially better than Lock? I don't.
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In comment 16462181 Lambuth_Special said:
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Raanan has said that Daniels is the first choice, followed by JJM, and that they like Maye but not as much as assumed.
Sometimes Jordan seems like he is winging it.
Yeah, I see no chance the Giants all the sudden changed their minds about Maye after working for months on trading up for him. I just don't think we are in the position roster wise to pay the price and Schoen isn't the type to get fleeced in a deal for everything he's got. The Vikings being all in on Maye makes sense because their roster (especially on offense) is ready go be truly elite with the right QB.
Schoen did give more than ideal to secure Deonte Banks even though Joey Porter Jr. and others were still on the board.
Or I guess it could be Daniels instead of MHJ, but in all likelihood if CW, JD, Maye, JJM and Nabers go in the top 5 then we run to the podium for MHJ.
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Finding the QB is everything and until you get one you should be hunting for one. I'm simply saying if your scouts and personnel evaluators think one of them is "The Guy" then you have to do whatever you can to get him. You can fill out the roster in other ways and you can replenish draft picks through trades. The Texans have literally just altered their franchise by taking a guy last draft that a lot of people doubted. Now they're considered a Super Bowl contender. Things change quickly when you find that player.
Maye cannot be compared to CJ Stroud. CJ Stroud had a safe floor with a real upside to his ceiling. What he did against an NFL level defense against Georgia in the semifinals was truly elite and no QBs in this draft have anything close to that performance on their resumè. Most of the actual football people in Carolina wanted Stroud, but Tepper loved Young based on who knows what.
Also, the Texans didn't trade up for Stroud. Look at the more relevant example: Bryce Young was more of a boom or bust QB and Carolina traded their future for him. It's looking more than likely they will struggle to get out of the hole they're in for a long time.
Actually, Young looked even better against Georgia than Stroud did, not by a significant amount though. It would be easy to just evaluate a prospect’s game against the best team and project from there, but it doesn’t always work that way. When it comes to the whole package, Maye can absolutely be compared to Stroud. Doesn’t mean he’ll end up as good.
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
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In comment 16462287 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16462181 Lambuth_Special said:
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Raanan has said that Daniels is the first choice, followed by JJM, and that they like Maye but not as much as assumed.
Sometimes Jordan seems like he is winging it.
Yeah, I see no chance the Giants all the sudden changed their minds about Maye after working for months on trading up for him. I just don't think we are in the position roster wise to pay the price and Schoen isn't the type to get fleeced in a deal for everything he's got. The Vikings being all in on Maye makes sense because their roster (especially on offense) is ready go be truly elite with the right QB.
Schoen did give more than ideal to secure Deonte Banks even though Joey Porter Jr. and others were still on the board.
Trading a 5th round pick for a good CB is different than trading pick 6, 2025 1st, pick 47 and 2025 2nd or pick 6, 2025 1st and 2026 1st for a boom or bust QB. The former isn't even a gamble, it's just hedging your bet. The latter is a massive make or break gamble which probably has a higher chance to doom us for another decade and have Schoen/Daboll lose their jobs than booming into a new Era of NYG greatness.
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
Jones's neck is why they went with someone like Drew Lock rather than re-signing Tyrod Taylor or just going with Cutlets. If they do not believe that the QB's available at 6 will be an improvement over Lock I can see bypassing that position. Now, if they do that they better be correct because the flipside is a disaster.
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
If Jones' neck is still a problem, they WILL come out of this draft with a QB. If they don't, then they don't think the neck is a problem.
What they are not going to do is tell YOU that they are going to take a QB three weeks before the draft.
He didn't seem right against the Raiders. Initially, I thought it was rust and being a bit shell shocked but not so sure there is not more to it.
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Then why the fuck would they ever consider not picking a qb this draft?
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
If Jones' neck is still a problem, they WILL come out of this draft with a QB. If they don't, then they don't think the neck is a problem.
What they are not going to do is tell YOU that they are going to take a QB three weeks before the draft.
Well thanks captain obvious lol. I know they won't be screaming from the rooftops that they want a QB, but all we have to go on is what the media and asshats tell us and right now that's sounding more and more like a WR.
The only way all 3 can be gone is if MHj or Jayden Daniels fell... either way I will take them over Maye, JJM, or Nabers.
Eric, hypothetically speaking, if that's the case, what happens regarding Jones in terms of his contract?
I've said for a couple of weeks that I think there is a good shot Harrison is there.
A lot of people think Nabers may go before Harrison.
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In comment 16462210 jv said:
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Finding the QB is everything and until you get one you should be hunting for one. I'm simply saying if your scouts and personnel evaluators think one of them is "The Guy" then you have to do whatever you can to get him. You can fill out the roster in other ways and you can replenish draft picks through trades. The Texans have literally just altered their franchise by taking a guy last draft that a lot of people doubted. Now they're considered a Super Bowl contender. Things change quickly when you find that player.
Maye cannot be compared to CJ Stroud. CJ Stroud had a safe floor with a real upside to his ceiling. What he did against an NFL level defense against Georgia in the semifinals was truly elite and no QBs in this draft have anything close to that performance on their resumè. Most of the actual football people in Carolina wanted Stroud, but Tepper loved Young based on who knows what.
Also, the Texans didn't trade up for Stroud. Look at the more relevant example: Bryce Young was more of a boom or bust QB and Carolina traded their future for him. It's looking more than likely they will struggle to get out of the hole they're in for a long time.
Actually, Young looked even better against Georgia than Stroud did, not by a significant amount though. It would be easy to just evaluate a prospect’s game against the best team and project from there, but it doesn’t always work that way. When it comes to the whole package, Maye can absolutely be compared to Stroud. Doesn’t mean he’ll end up as good.
I thought Stroud was the definitive #1 pick personally. I didn't see him as a boom or bust QB. I do not think Stroud and Maye are comparable as prospects, that's just me though. If MHJ didn't get knocked out of the game with that hit to the head in the end zone I think Ohio st wins that game and the championship to follow.
Also, Bryce Young beat the 2020/2021 team in the championship. That defense was not on the level of the 2022/2023 defense. Young got crushed against the 2021/2022 defense 33-18 and threw 2 picks against a defense which was still a notch below the 2022/2023 defense which Stroud lit up in incredible fashion.
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Then why the fuck would they ever consider not picking a qb this draft?
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
If Jones' neck is still a problem, they WILL come out of this draft with a QB. If they don't, then they don't think the neck is a problem.
What they are not going to do is tell YOU that they are going to take a QB three weeks before the draft.
The interesting thing is if Schoen has information about a QB dropping to the bottom of the first/into the second round. If he pulls off a Nabers/QB combo that would be a coup.
The questions are Cardinals and Chargers and whether they trade down. If one of them does, then four QBs will go before the Giants, unless the Giants trade up.
If four QBs go and Giants don't trade up, they will probably take Nabers or Harrison.
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
You're just arriving at these high expectations thought now?? JFC.
These high expectations for Jones should have been in place once his 2019 rookie season ended.
He wasn't drafted #6 to be a passenger. He was drafted #6 to be a force multiplier.
I continue to be dumbfounded by those who don't recognize this and essentially treat Jones as if he was the last pick in the draft - Mr. Irrelevant.
Again - JFC...
Staying at 6 basically leaves us with a guarantee of MHJ, Nabers or JJM. Those are not bad options while keeping all your picks for the future to continue building.
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Then why the fuck would they ever consider not picking a qb this draft?
I’m with Terps, if they want to hitch their wagon to Jones for a third year (sixth for the franchise in total) then the expectation should be 10 wins and a top 10 offense. No excuses, Daboll is getting the wide receiver he wants, there better be results. And if not and this turns out how many of us expect it to, they should all be fired.
You're just arriving at these high expectations thought now?? JFC.
These high expectations for Jones should have been in place once his 2019 rookie season ended.
He wasn't drafted #6 to be a passenger. He was drafted #6 to be a force multiplier.
I continue to be dumbfounded by those who don't recognize this and essentially treat Jones as if he was the last pick in the draft - Mr. Irrelevant.
Again - JFC...
No, I agree those expectations should have always been there. I'm just reiterating it.
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Curious about that.
Staying at 6 basically leaves us with a guarantee of MHJ, Nabers or JJM. Those are not bad options while keeping all your picks for the future to continue building.
You and I are on the same page. This is how I am looking at it. Wild cards to me are (1) Odunze (we're assuming Harrison is Nabers is gone) and (2) does someone try to trade up with Giants and offers a really interesting package (like the one I posted about the Bears).
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Jones career may already be over.
Eric, hypothetically speaking, if that's the case, what happens regarding Jones in terms of his contract?
If he can't pass a physical due to neck before March of 2025 then we are on the hook for the entire 41.6 million of his 2025 contract. If he can pass a physical and we move on before March of 2025, then we can save about half of that 41.6 million.
For the umpteenth time, the problem with picking Jones at 6 was not that they reached (although that's part of it), it's that they multiplied the error by refusing to admit they made a mistake and then giving him an enormous contract.
If you draft a QB and he's not the guy within 2-3 years, MOVE ON AND TRY AGAIN.
Or we nail it.
If we don't nail it, guess what? We try again.
Are you a member of the BBI Sure Thing Draft Society where you only want to draft a QB with 100% certainty he will be good?
The questions are Cardinals and Chargers and whether they trade down. If one of them does, then four QBs will go before the Giants, unless the Giants trade up.
If four QBs go and Giants don't trade up, they will probably take Nabers or Harrison.
This would be the worst case scenario for the Giants. If QB's go 1-2-3 and none of those teams trade down and then Cards draft a receiver (which is think is very likely), I think the odds are greater than 50-50 that the Chargers trade with he Vikings for the 4th QB. Then we're shit out of luck unless we trade back into the first for Nix/Penix.
I still think it's likely to go 3 QBs + MHjr + Alt
Which would mean Daniels, Maye or McCarthy will be sitting there along with Nabers.
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In comment 16462327 Joey in VA said:
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Curious about that.
Staying at 6 basically leaves us with a guarantee of MHJ, Nabers or JJM. Those are not bad options while keeping all your picks for the future to continue building.
You and I are on the same page. This is how I am looking at it. Wild cards to me are (1) Odunze (we're assuming Harrison is Nabers is gone) and (2) does someone try to trade up with Giants and offers a really interesting package (like the one I posted about the Bears).
Ive imagined a trade down with the Falcons or Bears getting an extra 2nd round pick and maybe Odunze or JJM or maybe Penix which would be amazing. I could see the Jaguars trading up for a top WR, but the package would have to be truly out of this world to move from 6 down to 17.
I thought Stroud was the definitive #1 pick personally. I didn't see him as a boom or bust QB. I do not think Stroud and Maye are comparable as prospects, that's just me though. If MHJ didn't get knocked out of the game with that hit to the head in the end zone I think Ohio st wins that game and the championship to follow.
Also, Bryce Young beat the 2020/2021 team in the championship. That defense was not on the level of the 2022/2023 defense. Young got crushed against the 2021/2022 defense 33-18 and threw 2 picks against a defense which was still a notch below the 2022/2023 defense which Stroud lit up in incredible fashion.
I’m a Georgia fan, and I can tell you that is not the consensus at all regarding the stronger year on defense. Most consider 2021 to be Georgia’s peak on defense, while the offense was much improved in 2022. Maybe your opinion is different, but the stats are significantly in favor of the 2021 team. You also may have missed the 2021 SEC championship where Young went off. And I’m not so certain Georgia beats bama in the rematch if Jameson Williams doesn’t get hurt.
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think three quarterbacks are definitely going in the first three picks (New England reporter insists they may even take McCarthy).
The questions are Cardinals and Chargers and whether they trade down. If one of them does, then four QBs will go before the Giants, unless the Giants trade up.
If four QBs go and Giants don't trade up, they will probably take Nabers or Harrison.
This would be the worst case scenario for the Giants. If QB's go 1-2-3 and none of those teams trade down and then Cards draft a receiver (which is think is very likely), I think the odds are greater than 50-50 that the Chargers trade with he Vikings for the 4th QB. Then we're shit out of luck unless we trade back into the first for Nix/Penix.
Then we get Nabers or trade down, not really shit out of luck with a guy that could easily turn into a top 5 WR. Also, I believe the reports that the Vikings are all in on Maye with fallback option being Penix. They are not trading the same package for JJM as they would for Maye.
should read "back into," as in trading up after making a selection at 6.
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think three quarterbacks are definitely going in the first three picks (New England reporter insists they may even take McCarthy).
The questions are Cardinals and Chargers and whether they trade down. If one of them does, then four QBs will go before the Giants, unless the Giants trade up.
If four QBs go and Giants don't trade up, they will probably take Nabers or Harrison.
This would be the worst case scenario for the Giants. If QB's go 1-2-3 and none of those teams trade down and then Cards draft a receiver (which is think is very likely), I think the odds are greater than 50-50 that the Chargers trade with he Vikings for the 4th QB. Then we're shit out of luck unless we trade back into the first for Nix/Penix.
You need to prepare yourself for the scenario where all four QBs are gone and the Giants "settle" for an elite receiver.
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In comment 16462344 Eric from BBI said:
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think three quarterbacks are definitely going in the first three picks (New England reporter insists they may even take McCarthy).
The questions are Cardinals and Chargers and whether they trade down. If one of them does, then four QBs will go before the Giants, unless the Giants trade up.
If four QBs go and Giants don't trade up, they will probably take Nabers or Harrison.
This would be the worst case scenario for the Giants. If QB's go 1-2-3 and none of those teams trade down and then Cards draft a receiver (which is think is very likely), I think the odds are greater than 50-50 that the Chargers trade with he Vikings for the 4th QB. Then we're shit out of luck unless we trade back into the first for Nix/Penix.
You need to prepare yourself for the scenario where all four QBs are gone and the Giants "settle" for an elite receiver.
Lol not only am I prepared, I'm fully expecting it. That doesn't mean I have to be pleased though.
Also, really? "elite" receiver? These receivers have just as much a chance to bust as the top QB's.
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I thought Stroud was the definitive #1 pick personally. I didn't see him as a boom or bust QB. I do not think Stroud and Maye are comparable as prospects, that's just me though. If MHJ didn't get knocked out of the game with that hit to the head in the end zone I think Ohio st wins that game and the championship to follow.
Also, Bryce Young beat the 2020/2021 team in the championship. That defense was not on the level of the 2022/2023 defense. Young got crushed against the 2021/2022 defense 33-18 and threw 2 picks against a defense which was still a notch below the 2022/2023 defense which Stroud lit up in incredible fashion.
I’m a Georgia fan, and I can tell you that is not the consensus at all regarding the stronger year on defense. Most consider 2021 to be Georgia’s peak on defense, while the offense was much improved in 2022. Maybe your opinion is different, but the stats are significantly in favor of the 2021 team. You also may have missed the 2021 SEC championship where Young went off. And I’m not so certain Georgia beats bama in the rematch if Jameson Williams doesn’t get hurt.
Thats fair and you sound like you have a better grasp of Georgia football than me. Nevertheless, I don't personally see Bryce Young's performances in the same dimension as Stroud's. And I don't think Maye has any performances even close to either Young or Stroud's. Stroud in tier 1, Young in tier 2, then Maye in tier 3 or 4 for me.
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In comment 16462359 LW_Giants said:
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In comment 16462344 Eric from BBI said:
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think three quarterbacks are definitely going in the first three picks (New England reporter insists they may even take McCarthy).
The questions are Cardinals and Chargers and whether they trade down. If one of them does, then four QBs will go before the Giants, unless the Giants trade up.
If four QBs go and Giants don't trade up, they will probably take Nabers or Harrison.
This would be the worst case scenario for the Giants. If QB's go 1-2-3 and none of those teams trade down and then Cards draft a receiver (which is think is very likely), I think the odds are greater than 50-50 that the Chargers trade with he Vikings for the 4th QB. Then we're shit out of luck unless we trade back into the first for Nix/Penix.
You need to prepare yourself for the scenario where all four QBs are gone and the Giants "settle" for an elite receiver.
Lol not only am I prepared, I'm fully expecting it. That doesn't mean I have to be pleased though.
Also, really? "elite" receiver? These receivers have just as much a chance to bust as the top QB's.
MHJ or Nabers chances of being a bust are incomparable to Maye's, just imp.
But Sy has 90+ grades on these guys.
Young obliterated that D in the SECCG. He had both of his future NFL WR's.
In the CFCG he had already lost one of those WR's the week prior and then the other in the first half. If he didn't I think he would have lit them up again.
The 2022 Georgia D was still outstanding but not to the 2021 level.
Young obliterated that D in the SECCG. He had both of his future NFL WR's.
In the CFCG he had already lost one of those WR's the week prior and then the other in the first half. If he didn't I think he would have lit them up again.
The 2022 Georgia D was still outstanding but not to the 2021 level.
That's fair, in terms of individual game performances I thought Stroud putting the team on his back (especially with no MHJ for the 2nd half) was on a different level compared to Young's performances. Then you factor in the size of Stroud vs Young and it was a no Brainer for Stroud > Young to me. Either way, Maye had no performances like Stroud or Young did. He is a true boom or bust prospect.
They want to move on from DJ. Obvious. But don't take a QB you aren't sold on, just because you need to try and try again. Sooner or later Giants need to pull the trigger on finding a replacement, and not keep punting, but if the QB you want isn't available, no fliers at 6.
But Sy has 90+ grades on these guys.
He also has McCarthy's ceiling as Joe Burrow, Maye's as Eli Manning, Nix as Deshaun Watson, and Penix as Jordan Love.
There isn't a WR in the NFL worth Burrow or Love in trade. Not Hill, not Jefferson.
Draft one of these QBs and install a system that tailor's to their strengths. This wouldn't be drafting Daniel Jones at 6. These guys are all talented.
So the only choice for the Pats is to trade down to AZ, knowing that Minn is coming up for Maye. They need 3 1st round picks because AZ is probably demanding 1 plus.
The Giants are left with the WR's that the Chargers or whoever is picking in the 5th slot don't choose.
They want to move on from DJ. Obvious. But don't take a QB you aren't sold on, just because you need to try and try again. Sooner or later Giants need to pull the trigger on finding a replacement, and not keep punting, but if the QB you want isn't available, no fliers at 6.
Agreed, but I don't think if they take JJM over Odunze at 6 then that should be considered taking a flier on a QB. That would suggest they believe in JJM a lot. Nix over Nabers at 6 though, then yeah that would be a real head scratcher to me. Either way, I don't think we have to worry about Schoen taking a flier on QB over an elite WR prospect at 6.
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I totally understand the frustration with Jones and I 100% want a new qb. I am done with Jones. But there is a reality where the following happens:
-Caleb goes 1...no chance trade up.
- Daniels goes 2...no chance to trade up
- Maye goes 3...either Pats won't trade or they want something insane. Either way we can't feasibly get him.
- Vikings offer 3 one's and two 2's for JJM at 4...Cards tell us we'd need something similar just to move up from 6. Daboll and Schoen don't think he's a prospect to do that for.
- Daboll doesn't love Nix or Pennix and doesn't see them as close to a first round prospect.
I see people saying if we don't take a QB at 6 it means this regime is "doubling down" on Jones or proving that they are just going business as usual for the giants. But what about that scenario above? What if they love the top 3 and literally don't have the opportunity to get one? What if they've offered three ones to the Pats and been rebuffed? Can we really say that black and white that no QB at 6 means they are all in on jones? I don't think that's reality.
If this plays out as you outline, and Jones isn't cut as a post-June 1st casualty, then this would be tripling down on Jones, not doubling down. The double down occurred with this asinine second contract.
To me, if you can't secure the QB-of-the-future prospect in this draft, roll with Lock, Cutlets (and maybe a late round QB or UDFA as option #3) and cut Jones because we have reached a circular error in Excel with this guy. He's not working.
So, end the relationship like Denver is doing with a HoF caliber QB in Wilson. Enough of this experiment.
Ask yourself this question. Do you really think Jones is materially better than Lock? I don't.
bw i agree with this take...jones shouldn't play again. my point is only with the people who are saying qb at 6 no matter what and if they don't draft a qb they're all in on jones. that seems nonsensical to me. i get that an individual poster may like nix or pennix, but what if brian daboll doesn't? we should draft a qb he doesn't like over MHJ? thats insane to me. if the chips dont fall our way, roll with lock, add blue chip talent and move forward. cut jones if he can pass a physical or just tell him to stay home if he cant.
I've said for a couple of weeks that I think there is a good shot Harrison is there.
A lot of people think Nabers may go before Harrison.
This - which makes 6 a great position to potentially get the best player in the entire draft.
So the only choice for the Pats is to trade down to AZ, knowing that Minn is coming up for Maye. They need 3 1st round picks because AZ is probably demanding 1 plus.
The Giants are left with the WR's that the Chargers or whoever is picking in the 5th slot don't choose.
Why wouldn't NE just take JJM at 3 then?
So the only choice for the Pats is to trade down to AZ, knowing that Minn is coming up for Maye. They need 3 1st round picks because AZ is probably demanding 1 plus.
The Giants are left with the WR's that the Chargers or whoever is picking in the 5th slot don't choose.
Sounds like the Pats organization is a super loosely ran ship, or there is a lot of smoke and reports that need to be taken with a grain of salt. If the chowdahead chatta is correct, then bring on Nabers or MHJ or a trade down (maybe Penix plus a 2 and 3?)
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There's been plenty of chatter up here. The Pats are going QB, they love Daniels and fully expect him to be gone. However, ownership thinks that JJM is the next coming of TB12.
So the only choice for the Pats is to trade down to AZ, knowing that Minn is coming up for Maye. They need 3 1st round picks because AZ is probably demanding 1 plus.
The Giants are left with the WR's that the Chargers or whoever is picking in the 5th slot don't choose.
Why wouldn't NE just take JJM at 3 then?
If they can setup a trade where they get JJM plus an extra 1st, that would be a no Brainer. LAC is the team most likely willing to move down to 11, then they go up to 3 from 5 for Maye and Pats get JJM plus a future 1st or more. Would seem better than just taking JJM at 3?
I know Jones is working very hard and he expects to be ready.....
I am very curious to see if he coordinates another camp at Duke or some place nicer......that will be telling.
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In comment 16462414 dd in Mass said:
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There's been plenty of chatter up here. The Pats are going QB, they love Daniels and fully expect him to be gone. However, ownership thinks that JJM is the next coming of TB12.
So the only choice for the Pats is to trade down to AZ, knowing that Minn is coming up for Maye. They need 3 1st round picks because AZ is probably demanding 1 plus.
The Giants are left with the WR's that the Chargers or whoever is picking in the 5th slot don't choose.
Why wouldn't NE just take JJM at 3 then?
If they can setup a trade where they get JJM plus an extra 1st, that would be a no Brainer. LAC is the team most likely willing to move down to 11, then they go up to 3 from 5 for Maye and Pats get JJM plus a future 1st or more. Would seem better than just taking JJM at 3?
Maneuvering like that is pretty rare. It's definitely better, but something so complicated would probably need to be worked out in advance.
Then there's this recent report:
“Daniels is rumored to be intent on playing for New England after Daniels’ meeting with Washington didn’t go as smoothly,” says @evansilva.
I believe this is the reporter generating the big JJM to NE buzz:
Giardi said he knows “for a fact” that New England likes McCarthy.
“The question then becomes, how much? He is the youngest of the QBs in this draft, and his tape, while somewhat limited because of the type of team Michigan was, is good,” Giardi said of McCarthy. “He’s such a loose athlete and moves better than I had in my mind’s eye from watching him during the year. Is he ready to assume the number one chair from day one? Unlikely. But there’s no rush. His intelligence is right up at the top of this class, and fundamentally, McCarthy has a better base than (Drake) Maye.”
That reporter has Maye going 2 and Patriots taking JJM over Jayden Daniels at 3. Seems like a bunch of contradictory information just like we have for the NYG. If that unlikely scenario played out, I would be on board with trading a haul for Jayden Daniels. I don't think he is as much of a boom or bust prospect as Maye. Nevertheless, this reporters proposed order of the top 3 leads me to severely question whether he has any actual information.
If you follow the teams actions (scouting every QB like crazy) and discussions about trading up, they agree with you.
But sometimes it doesn't work out.
Instead of assuming the worst all of the time, perhaps we should wait and see what happens?
So the only choice for the Pats is to trade down to AZ, knowing that Minn is coming up for Maye. They need 3 1st round picks because AZ is probably demanding 1 plus.
The Giants are left with the WR's that the Chargers or whoever is picking in the 5th slot don't choose.
This is the scenario I heard talked about today.
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In comment 16462423 LW_Giants said:
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In comment 16462414 dd in Mass said:
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There's been plenty of chatter up here. The Pats are going QB, they love Daniels and fully expect him to be gone. However, ownership thinks that JJM is the next coming of TB12.
So the only choice for the Pats is to trade down to AZ, knowing that Minn is coming up for Maye. They need 3 1st round picks because AZ is probably demanding 1 plus.
The Giants are left with the WR's that the Chargers or whoever is picking in the 5th slot don't choose.
Why wouldn't NE just take JJM at 3 then?
If they can setup a trade where they get JJM plus an extra 1st, that would be a no Brainer. LAC is the team most likely willing to move down to 11, then they go up to 3 from 5 for Maye and Pats get JJM plus a future 1st or more. Would seem better than just taking JJM at 3?
Maneuvering like that is pretty rare. It's definitely better, but something so complicated would probably need to be worked out in advance.
Agreed 100%, more likely the Pats would just take the entire haul from NE at take Fashanu or BTJ or Penix or Nix at 11. None of these reports and rumors can be taken at face value, especially this late in the process. Last I checked Dave Gettleman didn't have a GM job, if he was Patriots GM then I would believe reporters saying they liked x player 100%.
What I can say with certainty is if we stay at 6 we can get MHJ or Nabers or JJM and I think this is Schoen's plan as it stands.
I am surmising that MN really loves Maye, why else would they pay a king's ransom. That's the only way the Pats move down. And it's only going to be the 4th spot.
AZ is playing hardball figuring that they can get a better deal just working with MN directly. That's the conundrum for the Pats, how much of the draft haul with MN do they get to keep.
Or maybe they say screw it and take Penix or Nix at the 11th spot.
If you follow the teams actions (scouting every QB like crazy) and discussions about trading up, they agree with you.
But sometimes it doesn't work out.
Instead of assuming the worst all of the time, perhaps we should wait and see what happens?
I won't pretend to speak for bw and Terps, but for me the QB issue is so frustrating because it's a microcosm of what's been plaguing the Giants for the better part of 12 years....mismanagement, poor self-evaluation, undeserved loyalty, and an unceasing desire for instant gratification at the expense of building a true winner.
I am not on board with choosing any qb at 6. If they draft Rattler there, I'm gonna be pissed. However, I am of the opinion that we desperately need to start taking chances again on a QB. If that means trading way down to collect assets for a qb in 25 because the top 4 QB's go before us, then so be it. But there has to be a plan beyond every year winning 4-6 games and then saying "the price of moving up is too rich for our blood, oh well maybe next time!"
So you're advocating the Giants simply take Penix and Nix at 6.
That's OK, but go on record as saying so.
If you follow the teams actions (scouting every QB like crazy) and discussions about trading up, they agree with you.
But sometimes it doesn't work out.
Instead of assuming the worst all of the time, perhaps we should wait and see what happens?
I'm not assuming the worst. I actually think they'll end up with McCarthy, if I had to bet on it.
My point is twofold:
1. If they draft a WR it's fair, based on their actions, to expect production now with Daniel Jones as the QB.
2. If they draft a WR, Jones sucks again and the season is over by Halloween, that's on Schoen and Daboll. And they can go.
But I'm staying positive and thinking they're going to draft a QB.
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Have family in New England and that’s the consensus in local media…Pats take JMM.
Then there's this recent report:
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“Daniels is rumored to be intent on playing for New England after Daniels’ meeting with Washington didn’t go as smoothly,” says @evansilva.
I believe this is the reporter generating the big JJM to NE buzz:
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Giardi said he knows “for a fact” that New England likes McCarthy.
“The question then becomes, how much? He is the youngest of the QBs in this draft, and his tape, while somewhat limited because of the type of team Michigan was, is good,” Giardi said of McCarthy. “He’s such a loose athlete and moves better than I had in my mind’s eye from watching him during the year. Is he ready to assume the number one chair from day one? Unlikely. But there’s no rush. His intelligence is right up at the top of this class, and fundamentally, McCarthy has a better base than (Drake) Maye.”
That reporter has Maye going 2 and Patriots taking JJM over Jayden Daniels at 3. Seems like a bunch of contradictory information just like we have for the NYG. If that unlikely scenario played out, I would be on board with trading a haul for Jayden Daniels. I don't think he is as much of a boom or bust prospect as Maye. Nevertheless, this reporters proposed order of the top 3 leads me to severely question whether he has any actual information.
I don't know what to believe now that it's lying season. lol
"
John Frascella (Football)
@LegendSports7
NFL DRAFT CONFLICTING REPORTS:
Evan Silva reported a rocky meeting between Jayden Daniels and the Commanders earlier today, but my source is telling me Daniels hasn't met with the Commanders... since The Combine!
This has a quasi-confirmation from Ben Standig, who works the Commanders beat very closely.
It's like the Wild West out here!!"
I am surmising that MN really loves Maye, why else would they pay a king's ransom. That's the only way the Pats move down. And it's only going to be the 4th spot.
AZ is playing hardball figuring that they can get a better deal just working with MN directly. That's the conundrum for the Pats, how much of the draft haul with MN do they get to keep.
Or maybe they say screw it and take Penix or Nix at the 11th spot.
Rhe most plausible scenario for this to work is Minnesota trades 11 and 23 to LAC for pick 5, then they trade up with Pats for 2025 1st and 3rd or more. That would still leave a chance for a team trading up with AZ for JJM if that's really the Pats plan so maybe Minnesota would have to trade 11 and 23 to LAC for 5 then 2025 3rd to AZ for 4, then 2025 1st to NE for 3. I don't think it's a straightforward scenario and I think it's purely conjecture. No GMs are leaking these specifics on their plans and trade maneuvers.
But I'm not willing to take any QB over one of these receivers if things don't fall their way/they can't trade up.
I'd prefer to get the QB now if they can, but they might not be able to. If the season goes the way you expect, they'll have another shot with a new regime in 2025. (You may want that anyway because the new regime should pick their own QB).
So you're advocating the Giants simply take Penix and Nix at 6.
That's OK, but go on record as saying so.
Oh no, that's not what I'm advocating for lol. In an ideal world (assuming the top 4 QB's are gone), I would move down as far as it took to get a first or two firsts in next year's draft. Go all in on assets for 25 so we can move up and get the QB next year. Not so dissimilar from what Vikings have done in this draft.
Yes, you miss out on the "blue chip" wide receivers this year in such a scenario, but it's a deep WR draft and frankly I don't want to win 6-9 games. I want to either win 10+ or be picking in the top 4 next season.
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Every draft pick can bust.
But Sy has 90+ grades on these guys.
He also has McCarthy's ceiling as Joe Burrow, Maye's as Eli Manning, Nix as Deshaun Watson, and Penix as Jordan Love.
There isn't a WR in the NFL worth Burrow or Love in trade. Not Hill, not Jefferson.
Draft one of these QBs and install a system that tailor's to their strengths. This wouldn't be drafting Daniel Jones at 6. These guys are all talented.
Just because their ceiling is that does not mean that they will come anywhere close to their ceiling. Some could need a million different things to go right to hit that, but if everything does then yes they have that ceiling. That is why Sy also talked about realistic upside.
Yes I agree and I do believe the Vikings asshat info about them being all in on Maye with Penix as their fallback option.
The biggest assumption out there is that the Vikings traded up for another 1st rounder to move up. But we learned yesterday that they did not initiate that trade.
What I'm getting at is they may be OK staying where they are and getting Penix.
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If you trade down in hopes of drafting Penix or Nix, the Raiders and Broncos will jump you.
So you're advocating the Giants simply take Penix and Nix at 6.
That's OK, but go on record as saying so.
Oh no, that's not what I'm advocating for lol. In an ideal world (assuming the top 4 QB's are gone), I would move down as far as it took to get a first or two firsts in next year's draft. Go all in on assets for 25 so we can move up and get the QB next year. Not so dissimilar from what Vikings have done in this draft.
Yes, you miss out on the "blue chip" wide receivers this year in such a scenario, but it's a deep WR draft and frankly I don't want to win 6-9 games. I want to either win 10+ or be picking in the top 4 next season.
In that scenario the only team I see us getting a 2025 1st from is the Jaguars trading up for a WR. I don't see their 2025 1st being very high and it doesn't seem like a good alternative to Nabers or MHJ at 6. Maybe we continue trading down from their BB style, but then what if it's like this year and the top 2 QBs are locked in with the top 2 teams unwilling to trade? I'd rather just take Nabers or MHJ or a trade down to 9 with hopes of Odunze or Penix.
It's been in their hands for three years.
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be a pretty great fit for the Vikings? Maybe even better than Maye? The injury history is obviously there, but his deep ball with their receiving corp could be deadly. And he wouldn't cost nearly as much.
The biggest assumption out there is that the Vikings traded up for another 1st rounder to move up. But we learned yesterday that they did not initiate that trade.
What I'm getting at is they may be OK staying where they are and getting Penix.
Right! That's what I'm saying, Penix fits their offense perfectly, wouldn't cost future firsts and they can use their second first rounder to either beef up the defense or take an o-lineman to protect him. If I was a Vikings fan, I'd be pretty torn between doing that and trading 3 firsts and more for Maye.
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We get it, you and bw in dc want the Giants to take a quarterback. With the exception being that you seem to be OK with any QB and bw doesn't want McCarthy.
If you follow the teams actions (scouting every QB like crazy) and discussions about trading up, they agree with you.
But sometimes it doesn't work out.
Instead of assuming the worst all of the time, perhaps we should wait and see what happens?
I'm not assuming the worst. I actually think they'll end up with McCarthy, if I had to bet on it.
My point is twofold:
1. If they draft a WR it's fair, based on their actions, to expect production now with Daniel Jones as the QB.
2. If they draft a WR, Jones sucks again and the season is over by Halloween, that's on Schoen and Daboll. And they can go.
But I'm staying positive and thinking they're going to draft a QB.
If they draft a QB, he sucks looking no better than Jones and the season is over by Halloween how is that any different than scenario #2 except we have burned a chance at getting a potentially elite WR? Look how Tua changed when they got him Waddle and Hill. He was looking like a for sure don't offer fifth year option and then they were suddenly a playoff team. We can't afford to spend multiple first round picks on QB's because we can't get one that works and still keep this regime.
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I still get the sense that you don't realize that this is largely out of the Giants' hands.
It's been in their hands for three years.
Yes and no.
2022: They did not extend his option. They had the #5 and #7 picks a draft with no quarterbacks. None.
2023: The Giants have the 25th pick. Young, Stroud, and Richardson went in the top 4. You wanted the Giants to draft Will Levis in the first round? I guess you can say that had their own fate in their hands.
We are picking 6th. Other teams may not want to trade out in such a solid draft at the very top. Or the cost is prohibitive.
I agree with all of you - go get the QB...IF YOU CAN. Big "if".... Don't force-feed a QB that you don't believe in at #6.
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In comment 16462477 Eric from BBI said:
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I still get the sense that you don't realize that this is largely out of the Giants' hands.
It's been in their hands for three years.
Yes and no.
2022: They did not extend his option. They had the #5 and #7 picks a draft with no quarterbacks. None.
2023: The Giants have the 25th pick. Young, Stroud, and Richardson went in the top 4. You wanted the Giants to draft Will Levis in the first round? I guess you can say that had their own fate in their hands.
Eric, he has said elsewhere that we would have been better off taking Wills, Pickett, or Ridder with one of our 1st round picks in 2022 because we would have known by now that they were a bust and dumped them while drafting another QB in Round 1 this year with less money invested/dead cap than keeping Daniel Jones.
Just really stupid, especially when you consider they just let Saquon walk.
That and not letting DJ test the open market before giving him that contract.
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make on the Giants in the QB pursuit the past two seasons is not drafting Brock Purdy.
That and not letting DJ test the open market before giving him that contract.
I'm joking about Purdy. The entire league missed that one, including the 49ers (who took him as an afterthought).
I personally would've used a 2nd or moved up in the 3rd on Hooker last year. He would've had an opportunity to start last year and they could potentially have their next QB already on the roster on a cheap contract. If not, then all you lose is JMS or Hyatt neither of which are likely to be future all pro's.
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In comment 16462493 Eric from BBI said:
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make on the Giants in the QB pursuit the past two seasons is not drafting Brock Purdy.
That and not letting DJ test the open market before giving him that contract.
I'm joking about Purdy. The entire league missed that one, including the 49ers (who took him as an afterthought).
Not letting DJ test the open market was a real headscratcher for me, even moreso than franchise tagging Saquon (he had a great year and we were competitive). I think we could have gotten DJ for about 30 million per year if we let him test the open market. That was the real inexcusable part to me.
And now they're about to enter a draft where they will have access to, at minimum, two quarterbacks who were far more talented prospects than Jones was when he came out and better players than he is now.
I'm willing to give Schoen a mulligan on paying Jones, as stupid as that was. But running it back with him again when there are options - no second mulligan from me.
If Jones is the guy with only Lock and DeVito behind him, I expect a $47M performance. I think that's fair.
And now they're about to enter a draft where they will have access to, at minimum, two quarterbacks who were far more talented prospects than Jones was when he came out and better players than he is now.
I'm willing to give Schoen a mulligan on paying Jones, as stupid as that was. But running it back with him again when there are options - no second mulligan from me.
If Jones is the guy with only Lock and DeVito behind him, I expect a $47M performance. I think that's fair.
No one except Jones cultists are going to say the Jones decision wasn't a huge mistake.
But the options in the draft haven't been there.
Free agency? They signed Taylor in 2022. Last year, they hooked their wagon to Jones. So we're going in a circle at this point.
If your argument is they should have drafted someone in 2022 or 2023, I say who? If your argument is they shouldn't have re-signed Jones, no one is arguing against you.
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In comment 16462447 Eric from BBI said:
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We get it, you and bw in dc want the Giants to take a quarterback. With the exception being that you seem to be OK with any QB and bw doesn't want McCarthy.
If you follow the teams actions (scouting every QB like crazy) and discussions about trading up, they agree with you.
But sometimes it doesn't work out.
Instead of assuming the worst all of the time, perhaps we should wait and see what happens?
I'm not assuming the worst. I actually think they'll end up with McCarthy, if I had to bet on it.
My point is twofold:
1. If they draft a WR it's fair, based on their actions, to expect production now with Daniel Jones as the QB.
2. If they draft a WR, Jones sucks again and the season is over by Halloween, that's on Schoen and Daboll. And they can go.
But I'm staying positive and thinking they're going to draft a QB.
If they draft a QB, he sucks looking no better than Jones and the season is over by Halloween how is that any different than scenario #2 except we have burned a chance at getting a potentially elite WR? Look how Tua changed when they got him Waddle and Hill. He was looking like a for sure don't offer fifth year option and then they were suddenly a playoff team. We can't afford to spend multiple first round picks on QB's because we can't get one that works and still keep this regime.
Good points Mike - Rather off topic, Tua's situation is interesting. Tua's production sky rocketed with the arrival of Mike McDaniel, Tyreke Hill and Jaylen Waddle. That makes it hard to pinpoint what was the most responsible for Tua's massive improvement.
Tua How much of Tua getting better was an impact on his game?
McDaniel may be an offensive Genius, i'm sure he had an impact.
Tyreke and Jalen Waddle's ability to stretch the field vertically and horizontally had an impact.
Mostert was also a 22 addition, although his presence probably had the least impact.
Those are pretty incredible positive changes for a qb in one off-season. At the time, McDaniel was an unproven Head coach, Tua, like you said was looking like he was on his way out of Miami, Tyreke Hill was an exciting add with high expectations, Jaylen Waddle was an interesting addition with his speed, and short area quickness. He also did not have to be the a number 1 which helped.
I find it interesting trying to track down a single point of greatest influence when you have a player who's production makes a significant jump in one year. The same is also interesting for player's who's production falls off not necessarily due to age.
Just some observations.
I think Walsh used to say draft a QB somewhere in the draft every year.
If they want to take an OL in the first round, they should trade down. Taking one of the top two LTs makes little sense. But there are a bunch of OT/OG types in this draft who can help.
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I think you've said this, but the one thing they should get into the "habit" of is drafting a lower round QB every couple of years or so. Take a shot.
I think Walsh used to say draft a QB somewhere in the draft every year.
To be fair, he had 12 rounds. Seven makes it tougher. I would say every 2-3 years.
x1000, teams should keep drafting QB's every 2-4 years until they get the superstar and even then after that person's rookie deal they should probably start doing it again.
As of now we have signed starters for LG, RG and Neal gets his chance at RT. Not really any space for a top draft pick. Maybe day 2 or 3, but I don't see day 1 OL right now personally.
Good points Mike - Rather off topic, Tua's situation is interesting. Tua's production sky rocketed with the arrival of Mike McDaniel, Tyreke Hill and Jaylen Waddle. That makes it hard to pinpoint what was the most responsible for Tua's massive improvement.
Tua How much of Tua getting better was an impact on his game?
McDaniel may be an offensive Genius, i'm sure he had an impact.
Tyreke and Jalen Waddle's ability to stretch the field vertically and horizontally had an impact.
Mostert was also a 22 addition, although his presence probably had the least impact.
Those are pretty incredible positive changes for a qb in one off-season. At the time, McDaniel was an unproven Head coach, Tua, like you said was looking like he was on his way out of Miami, Tyreke Hill was an exciting add with high expectations, Jaylen Waddle was an interesting addition with his speed, and short area quickness. He also did not have to be the a number 1 which helped.
I find it interesting trying to track down a single point of greatest influence when you have a player who's production makes a significant jump in one year. The same is also interesting for player's who's production falls off not necessarily due to age.
Just some observations.
I'm not sure Tua is the answer at QB now either but Miami was 13-8 with him as a starter before all those guys arrived and they didn't just get 1 elite WR, they got 2 of them and have yet to win a playoff game with a window that is tightening very fast.
This particular year I think the Giants should draft TWO quarterbacks. Dump Jones and DeVito, start the first rounder and develop the third string behind Lock.
They have been ignoring this position for so long.
The colleges aren't producing enough QBs. Yeah, there are more teams now than back in the NFL's glory days, but look at the quality of the QBs the NFL used to have even on bad teams.
This particular year I think the Giants should draft TWO quarterbacks. Dump Jones and DeVito, start the first rounder and develop the third string behind Lock.
They have been ignoring this position for so long.
Agreed on trading players part, trading Barkley at the deadline could have led to a top 3 pick and extra draft capital. Judging by Mara's comments on that matter, it seemed he might have had a say.
If this plays out as you outline, and Jones isn't cut as a post-June 1st casualty, then this would be tripling down on Jones, not doubling down. The double down occurred with this asinine second contract.
To me, if you can't secure the QB-of-the-future prospect in this draft, roll with Lock, Cutlets (and maybe a late round QB or UDFA as option #3) and cut Jones because we have reached a circular error in Excel with this guy. He's not working.
So, end the relationship like Denver is doing with a HoF caliber QB in Wilson. Enough of this experiment.
Ask yourself this question. Do you really think Jones is materially better than Lock? I don't.
bw i agree with this take...jones shouldn't play again. my point is only with the people who are saying qb at 6 no matter what and if they don't draft a qb they're all in on jones. that seems nonsensical to me. i get that an individual poster may like nix or pennix, but what if brian daboll doesn't? we should draft a qb he doesn't like over MHJ? thats insane to me. if the chips dont fall our way, roll with lock, add blue chip talent and move forward. cut jones if he can pass a physical or just tell him to stay home if he cant.
Since we are in the lottery, I strongly prefer figuring out a way to grab the next QB prospect.
If that can't be executed, find a trade partner and get the hell out of the sixth slot by moving down.
Because if we can't get the QB, the next best move, IMV, is accumulating more draft capital. I'm not slobbering over the idea of getting an "elite WR" prospect because this draft is loaded with WR talent. If we miss out on Odunze or Nabors - BFD. I'll take the extra picks and upgrade at OL, WR and project QB or corner or edge.
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If this plays out as you outline, and Jones isn't cut as a post-June 1st casualty, then this would be tripling down on Jones, not doubling down. The double down occurred with this asinine second contract.
To me, if you can't secure the QB-of-the-future prospect in this draft, roll with Lock, Cutlets (and maybe a late round QB or UDFA as option #3) and cut Jones because we have reached a circular error in Excel with this guy. He's not working.
So, end the relationship like Denver is doing with a HoF caliber QB in Wilson. Enough of this experiment.
Ask yourself this question. Do you really think Jones is materially better than Lock? I don't.
bw i agree with this take...jones shouldn't play again. my point is only with the people who are saying qb at 6 no matter what and if they don't draft a qb they're all in on jones. that seems nonsensical to me. i get that an individual poster may like nix or pennix, but what if brian daboll doesn't? we should draft a qb he doesn't like over MHJ? thats insane to me. if the chips dont fall our way, roll with lock, add blue chip talent and move forward. cut jones if he can pass a physical or just tell him to stay home if he cant.
Since we are in the lottery, I strongly prefer figuring out a way to grab the next QB prospect.
If that can't be executed, find a trade partner and get the hell out of the sixth slot by moving down.
Because if we can't get the QB, the next best move, IMV, is accumulating more draft capital. I'm not slobbering over the idea of getting an "elite WR" prospect because this draft is loaded with WR talent. If we miss out on Odunze or Nabors - BFD. I'll take the extra picks and upgrade at OL, WR and project QB or corner or edge.
100 % with this lets rebuild this team rather than feeling we chased QB,or were worried about missing a blue chip WR.
The only caveat would be if MHJ falls to us at 6...
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If this plays out as you outline, and Jones isn't cut as a post-June 1st casualty, then this would be tripling down on Jones, not doubling down. The double down occurred with this asinine second contract.
To me, if you can't secure the QB-of-the-future prospect in this draft, roll with Lock, Cutlets (and maybe a late round QB or UDFA as option #3) and cut Jones because we have reached a circular error in Excel with this guy. He's not working.
So, end the relationship like Denver is doing with a HoF caliber QB in Wilson. Enough of this experiment.
Ask yourself this question. Do you really think Jones is materially better than Lock? I don't.
bw i agree with this take...jones shouldn't play again. my point is only with the people who are saying qb at 6 no matter what and if they don't draft a qb they're all in on jones. that seems nonsensical to me. i get that an individual poster may like nix or pennix, but what if brian daboll doesn't? we should draft a qb he doesn't like over MHJ? thats insane to me. if the chips dont fall our way, roll with lock, add blue chip talent and move forward. cut jones if he can pass a physical or just tell him to stay home if he cant.
Since we are in the lottery, I strongly prefer figuring out a way to grab the next QB prospect.
If that can't be executed, find a trade partner and get the hell out of the sixth slot by moving down.
Because if we can't get the QB, the next best move, IMV, is accumulating more draft capital. I'm not slobbering over the idea of getting an "elite WR" prospect because this draft is loaded with WR talent. If we miss out on Odunze or Nabors - BFD. I'll take the extra picks and upgrade at OL, WR and project QB or corner or edge.
I get the feeling Daboll would be pretty mad if we traded down with Nabers there. If an offer blew us away though, lfg!
If the Giants go into next year's draft with just seven picks and needing a QB, that would not be ideal.
Chicago? Not trading. Washington not trading. Pats - probably staying. Cardinals could trade but they’d possibly be passing up the chance to draft one of the receivers from an amazing receiver class.
Giants aren’t going to do something outrageous and trade Kayvon Thibodeaux or Dexter Lawrence along with draft picks for a chance to draft Drake Maye.
You guys need to be realistic about this. It might happen that QBs go 1-2-3 and then Giants might not think whoever the 4th QB is, would be worth their pick at 6. Whether that be McCarthy, Daniels, etc.
Schoen might have MHJ, Odunze, or Nabers as the second or third best player in this draft. We don’t know. Hell the NFL.com guy has Nabers as the best player by a wide margin.
This game of “pick a QB any QB” isn’t how Schoen operates and he has said this repeatedly.
I get the feeling Daboll would be pretty mad if we traded down with Nabers there. If an offer blew us away though, lfg!
If I had to place a bet right now on the likely outcome at #6, I would say we take the "elite WR".
And then the mystery/hope switches to the next pick and if Schoen will chase the next-best-QB-available.
Giants trade down a few spots, pick up a #2 and maybe a #3 in the 2025 draft and still are able to draft Odunze.
Will that happen? Probably not. But that would give the Giants two #2s, two #3s, and 2 #4s (assuming we get a comp pick) next year.
Giants trade down a few spots, pick up a #2 and maybe a #3 in the 2025 draft and still are able to draft Odunze.
Will that happen? Probably not. But that would give the Giants two #2s, two #3s, and 2 #4s (assuming we get a comp pick) next year.
Sign me up
Giants trade down a few spots, pick up a #2 and maybe a #3 in the 2025 draft and still are able to draft Odunze.
Will that happen? Probably not. But that would give the Giants two #2s, two #3s, and 2 #4s (assuming we get a comp pick) next year.
+1
I don't even care for Nix much, but Jones' 4 years at Duke doesn't sniff what Penix and Nix have done the last two years at their respective schools. Even athletically I don't see how Jones is superior to either one. Just a completely speculative pick based on relationships.
Giants trade down a few spots, pick up a #2 and maybe a #3 in the 2025 draft and still are able to draft Odunze.
Will that happen? Probably not. But that would give the Giants two #2s, two #3s, and 2 #4s (assuming we get a comp pick) next year.
As long as it's a 2025 2nd and 2025 3rd I'd go with that and Odunze.
So they clearly need a quarterback to add to the room in 2024. But they need to stop the madness of doing stupid things in the draft. Trading up, when you have one of the three worst rosters in the NFL, makes zero sense. We will likely be drafting again in the top ten next year so the cost of trading up is prohibitive. Especially when our drafting chops have been terrible over the last decade.
The most logical thing to do is to simply take the best player available at six since there are six elite ceiling players in this draft. If one of the three quarterbacks is there (CW, JD, DM), then clearly you take him. If not, then you take one of the three WRs. I am not a fan of trading down - the risk of losing blue chip quality for red chip quantity is simply not appealing given our inability to effectively scout and draft players. The Micah Parsons example could not be more indicative of this franchise stealing defeat from the jaws of victory on draft day. Don't overthink it. We are guaranteed a blue chip player if we simply sit tight.
If we don't get a quarterback at six, then you take your shot on a quarterback on day two or three. If Schoen can trade up to get one of the second tier quarterbacks, great, but not if it costs the 2025 first round pick. Clearly, though, Schoen must come out of this draft with a rookie quarterback at some point. Maybe the next Dak Prescott or Brock Purdy in the later rounds?
And I agree with GT that every year we should be introducing a rookie quarterback to the room, rotating out players who have not exhibited elite ceiling NFL talent.
So they clearly need a quarterback to add to the room in 2024. But they need to stop the madness of doing stupid things in the draft. Trading up, when you have one of the three worst rosters in the NFL, makes zero sense. We will likely be drafting again in the top ten next year so the cost of trading up is prohibitive. Especially when our drafting chops have been terrible over the last decade.
The most logical thing to do is to simply take the best player available at six since there are six elite ceiling players in this draft. If one of the three quarterbacks is there (CW, JD, DM), then clearly you take him. If not, then you take one of the three WRs. I am not a fan of trading down - the risk of losing blue chip quality for red chip quantity is simply not appealing given our inability to effectively scout and draft players. The Micah Parsons example could not be more indicative of this franchise stealing defeat from the jaws of victory on draft day. Don't overthink it. We are guaranteed a blue chip player if we simply sit tight.
If we don't get a quarterback at six, then you take your shot on a quarterback on day two or three. If Schoen can trade up to get one of the second tier quarterbacks, great, but not if it costs the 2025 first round pick. Clearly, though, Schoen must come out of this draft with a rookie quarterback at some point. Maybe the next Dak Prescott or Brock Purdy in the later rounds?
And I agree with GT that every year we should be introducing a rookie quarterback to the room, rotating out players who have not exhibited elite ceiling NFL talent.
I pretty much agree with everything you are saying here, except the question is, do you take JJM at #6, and/or maybe Penix. I'm really on the fence about JJM and I'll trust Brian Daboll knows what he's doing if we draft him. Penix feels like you can get cute and maybe draft the WR and then trade back into first round to snag Penix, though risky.
Giants trade down a few spots, pick up a #2 and maybe a #3 in the 2025 draft and still are able to draft Odunze.
Will that happen? Probably not. But that would give the Giants two #2s, two #3s, and 2 #4s (assuming we get a comp pick) next year.
with their top picks in qb gone they should absolutely be looking to trade back and probably more than once. ideally for future picks but adding two/three more top 100 picks this year could really go a long way. With how the depth is lining up in this draft. They could potentially address WR, RB, IOL, TE, DT and DB with legit starting caliber prospect in the first 3 rounds.
Giants trade down a few spots, pick up a #2 and maybe a #3 in the 2025 draft and still are able to draft Odunze.
Will that happen? Probably not. But that would give the Giants two #2s, two #3s, and 2 #4s (assuming we get a comp pick) next year.
I love this scenario. Albeit it unlikely. Secure a blue chip WR AND more ammo for the QB next year. You posted the thread about it being from Chicago from 9 right? Would just need a few OL and maybe someone like Dallas Turner?? to go 7,8,9.
Yeah, if 4 QBs go top 5 then there's a reasonable chance we could get one of the top 3 receivers at 9. Or maybe Penix could be a fallback option.
It would be pretty exciting if we traded back with Chi to get Odunze or Nabers and then Penix made it to the 20s and we were able to trade pick 47 and o e of the 2035 2nds to get Penix too.
But Sy has 90+ grades on these guys.
Eric I was thinking about this comment before and I have a question:
If there were a running back with a 90+ grade on this draft would you want to draft him over one of the quarterbacks?
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Every draft pick can bust.
But Sy has 90+ grades on these guys.
Eric I was thinking about this comment before and I have a question:
If there were a running back with a 90+ grade on this draft would you want to draft him over one of the quarterbacks?
I am not Eric, but having that alpha WR is more important for team success versus having an elite RB. If you look at every playoff team in recent years other than the 2022 Giants, who was making it with someone like Darius Slayton as your WR1? I know you frequently bring up Xavier Legette in Round 2, but if you look at BBI Mock Draft he was long gone and that was even before Buffalo dealt Diggs opening up another WR need before pick 47.
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In comment 16462387 Eric from BBI said:
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Every draft pick can bust.
But Sy has 90+ grades on these guys.
Eric I was thinking about this comment before and I have a question:
If there were a running back with a 90+ grade on this draft would you want to draft him over one of the quarterbacks?
I am not Eric, but having that alpha WR is more important for team success versus having an elite RB. If you look at every playoff team in recent years other than the 2022 Giants, who was making it with someone like Darius Slayton as your WR1? I know you frequently bring up Xavier Legette in Round 2, but if you look at BBI Mock Draft he was long gone and that was even before Buffalo dealt Diggs opening up another WR need before pick 47.
The Chiefs just won back to back Super Bowls with Rashee Rice and JuJu Smith-Schuster as their WR1 in those seasons. Rice had a solid rookie year, and JuJu was good like 5 years ago, but neither of them even close to qualify as an alpha WR.
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Every draft pick can bust.
But Sy has 90+ grades on these guys.
Eric I was thinking about this comment before and I have a question:
If there were a running back with a 90+ grade on this draft would you want to draft him over one of the quarterbacks?
WRs are among the highest paid positions in the league, RB is the lowest. That's not comparable, Terps.
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In comment 16462387 Eric from BBI said:
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Every draft pick can bust.
But Sy has 90+ grades on these guys.
Eric I was thinking about this comment before and I have a question:
If there were a running back with a 90+ grade on this draft would you want to draft him over one of the quarterbacks?
I am not Eric, but having that alpha WR is more important for team success versus having an elite RB. If you look at every playoff team in recent years other than the 2022 Giants, who was making it with someone like Darius Slayton as your WR1? I know you frequently bring up Xavier Legette in Round 2, but if you look at BBI Mock Draft he was long gone and that was even before Buffalo dealt Diggs opening up another WR need before pick 47.
We collectively overrate and underrate players, the BBI mock probably isn't a good reference for saying a player won't last. And I like Leggette a lot as many do here.
I'm starting to really wonder if Nabers makes it to 6. He's consistently rated in the top 3 overall, some have him #1. He would absolutely be worth pick 6.
Good point, Patriots could be bluffing and take a more reasonable offer from us if they have a plan at pick 6 they like. Minnesota could also already have a deal ready to get to 3 through the LAC.
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In comment 16462387 Eric from BBI said:
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Every draft pick can bust.
But Sy has 90+ grades on these guys.
Eric I was thinking about this comment before and I have a question:
If there were a running back with a 90+ grade on this draft would you want to draft him over one of the quarterbacks?
WRs are among the highest paid positions in the league, RB is the lowest. That's not comparable, Terps.
I'd argue the NFL is making a general error paying WRs as much as they do, and I wonder if we're going to start to see a change in how they're treated.
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In comment 16463030 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16462387 Eric from BBI said:
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Every draft pick can bust.
But Sy has 90+ grades on these guys.
Eric I was thinking about this comment before and I have a question:
If there were a running back with a 90+ grade on this draft would you want to draft him over one of the quarterbacks?
WRs are among the highest paid positions in the league, RB is the lowest. That's not comparable, Terps.
I'd argue the NFL is making a general error paying WRs as much as they do, and I wonder if we're going to start to see a change in how they're treated.
Even so, they aren't comparable to RBs. Look at McCaffrey trade value vs Adams or Hill. It's a passing league and dominant WRs are nearly up there with LT and edge rushers because of their effect on the pass game.
One thing that concerns me about WR is the variable duration of their prime years. For some it's 22-27 (like obj) for some it's 24-32 (Adams). I imagine if you analyzed this you would see a correlation between shorter prime years for production with players whom game is predicated on speed and agility vs route running and smarts.
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In comment 16463030 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16462387 Eric from BBI said:
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Every draft pick can bust.
But Sy has 90+ grades on these guys.
Eric I was thinking about this comment before and I have a question:
If there were a running back with a 90+ grade on this draft would you want to draft him over one of the quarterbacks?
WRs are among the highest paid positions in the league, RB is the lowest. That's not comparable, Terps.
I'd argue the NFL is making a general error paying WRs as much as they do, and I wonder if we're going to start to see a change in how they're treated.
Like RBs though, WRs often come out productive right out the gate. So, that's another plus for a WR pick. Don't get me wrong I'd prefer QB and I admittedly really like JJM. If Daboll loved Nabers and pounds the table for him, you gotta believe he will make some magic happen with an elite Z wr prospect.