The discussion is about whether the Giants & Jets have a meddling ownership problem. Lombardi says no doubt that the Jets do. With regards to the Giants:
-He says John Mara is a very nice man and very genuine, but he runs a family business.
-NYG struggles to be objective with their team and fall in love with their players.
-No one else was giving Jones that contract, but it was vindication for picking him 6th overall (he was obviously picked BEFORE Schoen & Daboll arrived).
-The Giants did not win because of Jones in 2022, they won because they managed the game and played complimentary football,
Discussion starts at 1:05 hour mark linked below.
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It's hard to know what to make of Lombardi's statement: "The Giants did not win because of Jones in 2022, they won because they managed the game and played complimentary football..."
According to Sy'56 Daniel Jones was awarded 7 Stud Awards in 2022 against CHI, GB, BALT, JAX, HOU, INDY and MINN.
That's quite a lot!
The road playoff win was really good and he played as well as anyone had ever seen him play. Sure, Minnesota's defense wasn't good, but then again, look at the offensive skill players we fielded in 2022. Not a whole lot there either.
The problem for Jones is the other 4 years of his career, outside of a few glimpses, are no good. Add in 2 neck injuries, an acl, and a handful of other injuries and we are talking about an average at best QB who you cannot depend on week in and week out.
This Jones contract thing will appeal to the folks who want to believe that no matter what but it just doesn't pass the smell test when in reality it was done to make sure that they could KEEP Barkley without committing to a long term deal with him at $$$$$'s he wanted. It was either Jones gets done and keep Barkley or neither was getting done and Jones would be franchised... I the Giants made the mistake of keeping Barkley (twice actually) when in reality franchising Jones and letting Barkley leave was the BEST financial option..
People will ignore that fact and ignore the fact that the contract for Jones was done with basically a two year window in mind. Yes, the Giants won in 2022 with him, not because of him but that doesn't mean we can't do that again.. What Jones's contract means is he needs to be the WHY if he will realize the full contract value.
Lombardi is a joke- has been for a long time and honestly this isn't very insightful at all. I would love to see someone have a take on the whole Jones & Barkley connection for the 2023 off-season, what really went into play there and take a deeper look at what was really being done. Instead it is always focused on Mara made JS and BD do the deal with Jones and I don't buy that. i think they were told to keep both (sign one and Franchise the other) and the calculated risk was less with Jones (as he would be easier to inflate the contract $'s based on the position and with an out in the deal, where Barkley wanted high end RB money and doubtful he would accept an escape clause in there)..
"the contract" isn't one of a top 5 QB. Nor is it one of a top 10 QB. We can argue all day long about where Jones ranks but we can't really say they gave him a premium QB contract or one that justifies a #6 overall pick at all. I would suggest the opposite, they paid him like a starter but a bottom half starter. Again, you can't compare his contract to a rookie QB contract that are set by the rookie scale. His contract also was pretty team friendly in terms.
Of all the QBs with a second contract, not many are paid less than Jones (excluding backups). Rodgers, Carr, Mayfield, Smith... that might be it.
Why? What is the benefit to this? You're acting on emotion.
wait what? You don't even have the right game there.. Barkley is THE most overrated player in the HISTORY of the NY GIANTS.. Hell, Barkley's best year wasn't even on the level of Tiki's best year! Come on man..
We can say Jones didn't do shit but truly, Barkley became a shadow the last half, which lefty Jones's running ability limited as teams weren't worried about him or Barkley, it was just him. We had NO WR's, I mean Hodgins was our number 1 at that point- a guy we got off waivers...
Daily Double!
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They need to cut him if he doesn't make his decision soon. They have given him plenty of time.
Why? What is the benefit to this? You're acting on emotion.
A release and a retirement are the same exact thing to the cap. In fact, it is actually helping us to not have a decision yet. Maybe he made up his mind and is doing the Giants a favor by not announcing it publicly until June 1st?
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The issue is as a CEO, he becomes attached to players and then cant objectively manage the roster. He bids against himself and overpays to keep mediocre talent.
Mara does not have the CHOPS to make tough contractual business decisions once in full bloom love.
The road playoff win was really good and he played as well as anyone had ever seen him play. Sure, Minnesota's defense wasn't good, but then again, look at the offensive skill players we fielded in 2022. Not a whole lot there either.
The problem for Jones is the other 4 years of his career, outside of a few glimpses, are no good. Add in 2 neck injuries, an acl, and a handful of other injuries and we are talking about an average at best QB who you cannot depend on week in and week out.
Very well said Chris.
This reads like the call is coming from inside the house
The closest analogy would be the Aston Martin Formula 1 team, which was purchased so that the owner's son could have a permanent spot on the grid in F1.
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…when Barkley got hurt during his 30+ carry game (Jags?) Jones did fuck-all to pick up the slack.
wait what? You don't even have the right game there.. Barkley is THE most overrated player in the HISTORY of the NY GIANTS.. Hell, Barkley's best year wasn't even on the level of Tiki's best year! Come on man..
We can say Jones didn't do shit but truly, Barkley became a shadow the last half, which lefty Jones's running ability limited as teams weren't worried about him or Barkley, it was just him. We had NO WR's, I mean Hodgins was our number 1 at that point- a guy we got off waivers...
Saquon Barkley led the NFL in rushing through 9 games and the Giants were 7-2 in that stretch
It's hard to know what to make of Lombardi's statement: "The Giants did not win because of Jones in 2022, they won because they managed the game and played complimentary football..."
According to Sy'56 Daniel Jones was awarded 7 Stud Awards in 2022 against CHI, GB, BALT, JAX, HOU, INDY and MINN.
That's quite a lot!
I respect Sy alot but some of that was rose colored glasses - Jones threw 13 passes vs Chicago and had 81 passing yards. Yes he ran well but still. He had 217 pass yds and 0 TDs vs GB.
.
He definitely earned ones vs Colts & Vikes but if Jones passed the bare minimum mark for a QB he got recognized
As an aside, Mara doesn’t have to tell Schoen that we’re going to do this or that like a Jerry Jones would do but for sure he’s a meddling owner who has done damage. Maybe he’s cut back but one would be naive to think that decisions regarding Jones and Barkley vis-à-vis franchising and contracting didn’t have a heavy dose of Mara’s desires.
According to Sy'56 Daniel Jones was awarded 7 Stud Awards in 2022 against CHI, GB, BALT, JAX, HOU, INDY and MINN.
That's quite a lot!
I guess it is if you're relying on Sy to tell you who played well or not. I mean zero disrespect to Sy for the work he puts in, and I'm happy to read it, but just because he calls someone a stud doesn't make it so, and certainly doesn't obligate any of us to agree.
Bingo.
One might also infer that he was also right with DG when he made that pick.
The closest analogy would be the Aston Martin Formula 1 team, which was purchased so that the owner's son could have a permanent spot on the grid in F1.
Stroll has shown more promise in his craft than Jones has in his.
The Giant's situation is more like Haas and Mazepin
If that was the case why didn’t we win Barkleys other seasons?
Jones and Barkley played off each other really well in 2022, it was the entire gameplan. Its a shame the two of them werent both healthy together for longer periods of time.
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According to Sy'56 Daniel Jones was awarded 7 Stud Awards in 2022 against CHI, GB, BALT, JAX, HOU, INDY and MINN.
That's quite a lot!
I guess it is if you're relying on Sy to tell you who played well or not. I mean zero disrespect to Sy for the work he puts in, and I'm happy to read it, but just because he calls someone a stud doesn't make it so, and certainly doesn't obligate any of us to agree.
Are you saying Sy’56 was wrong all 7 times about Daniel Jones?
Or, he was wrong just once?
Or, something in between?
Or, what exactly are you saying?
Lombardi deals in bullshit. Keep slinging that bullshit. Fans fucking love it.
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It's hard to know what to make of Lombardi's statement: "The Giants did not win because of Jones in 2022, they won because they managed the game and played complimentary football..."
According to Sy'56 Daniel Jones was awarded 7 Stud Awards in 2022 against CHI, GB, BALT, JAX, HOU, INDY and MINN.
That's quite a lot!
I respect Sy alot but some of that was rose colored glasses - Jones threw 13 passes vs Chicago and had 81 passing yards. Yes he ran well but still. He had 217 pass yds and 0 TDs vs GB.
.
He definitely earned ones vs Colts & Vikes but if Jones passed the bare minimum mark for a QB he got recognized
He was given 7 Stud awards in the context of how well his fellow team mates played. And that includes a below average WR unit and O-line unit.
Despite your little narrative
Guess you missed that we tried to draft his replacement
Move along
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In comment 16521942 sb from NYT Forum said:
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…when Barkley got hurt during his 30+ carry game (Jags?) Jones did fuck-all to pick up the slack.
wait what? You don't even have the right game there.. Barkley is THE most overrated player in the HISTORY of the NY GIANTS.. Hell, Barkley's best year wasn't even on the level of Tiki's best year! Come on man..
We can say Jones didn't do shit but truly, Barkley became a shadow the last half, which lefty Jones's running ability limited as teams weren't worried about him or Barkley, it was just him. We had NO WR's, I mean Hodgins was our number 1 at that point- a guy we got off waivers...
Saquon Barkley led the NFL in rushing through 9 games and the Giants were 7-2 in that stretch
Ok, so let me explain my point- #1 the issue was with Houston not Jacksonville.
Barkley had 933 yards rushing (give or take) and 6 Tds through 9 games. Jones had 427 yds rushing and 3 Tds through 9 games (plus he had 1596 yds passing and 8 pass TDs).
To say Barkley was the reason in weeks 1-9 isn't accurate (by itself) and he completely fell off the second half of the season..
now let's hear him do kraft, tepper, davis, blank, woody, etc.
Dak was an MVP candidate last year, but Jones is going to let him hit FA. Neither franchise has family members littered throughout the organization. We can all continue to whistle past the graveyard and circle the wagons whenever someone from the “outside” dares criticize the team, but the results speak for themselves. 2 winning seasons in the last decade plus…and counting.
Are you saying Sy’56 was wrong all 7 times about Daniel Jones?
Or, he was wrong just once?
Or, something in between?
Or, what exactly are you saying?
I'm saying exactly what I said.
His opinion is not an edict.
He's entitled to his opinion.
I'm happy to read his opinion.
I disagree with him at times.
I disagree with him at other times.
I don't need Sy, again, no disrespect to him, to tell me who played well or not.
If you do, cool. No judgment.
I don't think Jones is as bad as many here do, but I view his lack of successful throws downfield as a fatal flaw. It might be something he can improve on, though I'm not very optimistic that this clicks for him in year 6.
I'm saying exactly what I said.
His opinion is not an edict.
He's entitled to his opinion.
I'm happy to read his opinion.
I disagree with him at times.
I disagree with him at other times.
I don't need Sy, again, no disrespect to him, to tell me who played well or not.
If you do, cool. No judgment.
the first "disagree" should read "agree"
^^^
This
Just sucks that so many people know what's going to happen. They bare always correct as we know. Do they offer up betting tips? Oh yea, they do. Then never own up to them when they miss.
This Jones contract thing will appeal to the folks who want to believe that no matter what but it just doesn't pass the smell test when in reality it was done to make sure that they could KEEP Barkley without committing to a long term deal with him at $$$$$'s he wanted. It was either Jones gets done and keep Barkley or neither was getting done and Jones would be franchised... I the Giants made the mistake of keeping Barkley (twice actually) when in reality franchising Jones and letting Barkley leave was the BEST financial option..
People will ignore that fact and ignore the fact that the contract for Jones was done with basically a two year window in mind. Yes, the Giants won in 2022 with him, not because of him but that doesn't mean we can't do that again.. What Jones's contract means is he needs to be the WHY if he will realize the full contract value.
Lombardi is a joke- has been for a long time and honestly this isn't very insightful at all. I would love to see someone have a take on the whole Jones & Barkley connection for the 2023 off-season, what really went into play there and take a deeper look at what was really being done. Instead it is always focused on Mara made JS and BD do the deal with Jones and I don't buy that. i think they were told to keep both (sign one and Franchise the other) and the calculated risk was less with Jones (as he would be easier to inflate the contract $'s based on the position and with an out in the deal, where Barkley wanted high end RB money and doubtful he would accept an escape clause in there)..
Fascinating theory. You mean to tell me the Giants decided to give Jones a stupid contract, paid him an extra 10 to 20 million a year, so that they could save 1 or 2 million a year on the Barkley contract?
That makes perfect business sense. Actually, it makes no sense at all. Please stop repeating it.
"the contract" isn't one of a top 5 QB. Nor is it one of a top 10 QB. We can argue all day long about where Jones ranks but we can't really say they gave him a premium QB contract or one that justifies a #6 overall pick at all. I would suggest the opposite, they paid him like a starter but a bottom half starter. Again, you can't compare his contract to a rookie QB contract that are set by the rookie scale. His contract also was pretty team friendly in terms.
Of all the QBs with a second contract, not many are paid less than Jones (excluding backups). Rodgers, Carr, Mayfield, Smith... that might be it.
Sure.
When the Jones comtract was signed it was along the lines of a top 10 NFL contract all-time. But somehow your convinced it was a bottom tier QB contract. Top 10 all time, for a player who nobody thought was among the top 100 players in today's game.
The Jones contract was stupid. We don't have to be more stupid defending it.
For the good teams in the NFL that'd be a bad year. For the Giants it's the last time they 'won'.
Terrible standards.
For the good teams in the NFL that'd be a bad year. For the Giants it's the last time they 'won'.
Terrible standards.
See, this is a perfect example of your hyperbole. Your post lacks any context. Getting to the divisional round of the NFL playoffs is never a bad season, unless you're talking about a team with concrete Super Bowl expectations or that had gone 16-1 or 17-0 in the regular season. The Giants were far from that kind of team which made it all the more impressive when they were doing it.
Also, we know it was a good season because you packed up shop and went MIA for awhile and we all know the reason is because you couldn't handle your many narratives unraveling at once.
Did Lombardi say the Cowboys aren't runine a family business? That would certainly be a dumb take if so.
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According to Sy'56 Daniel Jones was awarded 7 Stud Awards in 2022 against CHI, GB, BALT, JAX, HOU, INDY and MINN.
That's quite a lot!
I guess it is if you're relying on Sy to tell you who played well or not. I mean zero disrespect to Sy for the work he puts in, and I'm happy to read it, but just because he calls someone a stud doesn't make it so, and certainly doesn't obligate any of us to agree.
It's somewhat grading on a curve too. He names 3 studs from every Giants game, but that doesn't mean he's declaring any of them studs relative to other NFL players.
It's somewhat grading on a curve too. He names 3 studs from every Giants game, but that doesn't mean he's declaring any of them studs relative to other NFL players.
Yeah. The best piece of shit is still a piece of shit.
For the good teams in the NFL that'd be a bad year. For the Giants it's the last time they 'won'.
Terrible standards.
This. Since our average record in the last 10 years is 6-10, anything .500 or over looks great in comparison. 9-7-1 is a pretty low bar for a good year.
To say Barkley was the reason in weeks 1-9 isn't accurate (by itself) and he completely fell off the second half of the season..
Which explains the Giants 2 - 5 finish that season. Barkley was instrumental to the Giants success the first half of that season.
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and just kind of sad overall. Here is a guy who just says shit (I mean, how does Dallas not run the boys like a family business?)
Did Lombardi say the Cowboys aren't runine a family business? That would certainly be a dumb take if so.
JJ doesn't hide his meddling, he flaunts it
The Cowboys finished 12-5 the last three seasons.
the last time the NYG had as few as 5 losses was 2016. The last time the NYG had as many as 12 wins was almost a quarter of a century ago.
Maybe some folks here get off on making fun of Jerruh. But from where I sit they are successful, and we are not.
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The Giants won 10 games, finished third in the division, were 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, went 4-6-1 after Halloween, were outscored for the season, and ended the year being non-competitive against a division rival.
For the good teams in the NFL that'd be a bad year. For the Giants it's the last time they 'won'.
Terrible standards.
See, this is a perfect example of your hyperbole. Your post lacks any context. Getting to the divisional round of the NFL playoffs is never a bad season, unless you're talking about a team with concrete Super Bowl expectations or that had gone 16-1 or 17-0 in the regular season. The Giants were far from that kind of team which made it all the more impressive when they were doing it.
Also, we know it was a good season because you packed up shop and went MIA for awhile and we all know the reason is because you couldn't handle your many narratives unraveling at once.
Did that clown really disappear during the 2022 season?
What a fraud
The Cowboys finished 12-5 the last three seasons.
the last time the NYG had as few as 5 losses was 2016. The last time the NYG had as many as 12 wins was almost a quarter of a century ago.
Maybe some folks here get off on making fun of Jerruh. But from where I sit they are successful, and we are not.
And we have been to 3 Super Bowls (winning 2 against Tom Brady) since the last time the Cowboys even made it to the Super Bowl. The Cowboys are masters of winning in the regular season and choking in the playoffs.
The closest analogy would be the Aston Martin Formula 1 team, which was purchased so that the owner's son could have a permanent spot on the grid in F1.
Jones Derangement Syndrome continues to claim victims. Such a moronic take. The Giants are a 100 year old organization, with mixed results throughout their history, but the idea they are run now to serve the needs of one player is so mind-numbingly stupid. But this is what Jones has done to fans.
Turned them into brain-dead megaphones. Carl Banks hit it on the head.
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They are run as a vessel to support Daniel Jones in achieving his personal and financial objectives.
The closest analogy would be the Aston Martin Formula 1 team, which was purchased so that the owner's son could have a permanent spot on the grid in F1.
Jones Derangement Syndrome continues to claim victims. Such a moronic take. The Giants are a 100 year old organization, with mixed results throughout their history, but the idea they are run now to serve the needs of one player is so mind-numbingly stupid. But this is what Jones has done to fans.
Turned them into brain-dead megaphones. Carl Banks hit it on the head.
You have it wrong. Jones Derangement Syndrome is when fans make every excuse for a bad and failed QB and come up with reasons why we should stick with him long after every other NFL franchise would have moved on. If we were the Commanders you would be laughing your ass off about our situation. But it's the Giants and Jones, therfore: Jones Derangement Syndrome.
The road playoff win was really good and he played as well as anyone had ever seen him play. Sure, Minnesota's defense wasn't good, but then again, look at the offensive skill players we fielded in 2022. Not a whole lot there either.
The problem for Jones is the other 4 years of his career, outside of a few glimpses, are no good. Add in 2 neck injuries, an acl, and a handful of other injuries and we are talking about an average at best QB who you cannot depend on week in and week out.
I think this is a fair summary. The only caveat I would put is that the offense was not sustainable long term as it relied on Jones' running much more than his passing. I think the #1 reason for success that season is the game planning of Daboll and Kafka followed by Jones' play (and health) after.
I also don't disagree with anything Lombardi suggested. The Giants have always been loyal to a fault and have always overvalued their own players. It is run like a family business, not a Fortune 500 company.
Did that clown really disappear during the 2022 season?
What a fraud
Yup, and I came back under the same handle.
Whatever happened to Big Blue '56, arcarsenal, Britt in VA, dep026, chopperhatch...? I'm sure those guys and others all just coincidentally stopped posting forever around the same time they couldn't rationalize the Giants anymore.
This place is duperiffic.
I'm not surprised you're oblivious to that impact.
And as for your list, I'm not sure any of them are dupes, except maybe dep.
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Did that clown really disappear during the 2022 season?
What a fraud
Yup, and I came back under the same handle.
Whatever happened to Big Blue '56, arcarsenal, Britt in VA, dep026, chopperhatch...? I'm sure those guys and others all just coincidentally stopped posting forever around the same time they couldn't rationalize the Giants anymore.
This place is duperiffic.
Once again….not even remotely true and I have literally no idea who those people are….but it just illustrates how much of a douche you are to disappear when the team has a little success only to crawl out of your hole when they falter
Poster child for a Message Board Tourettes
I'm not surprised you're oblivious to that impact.
And as for your list, I'm not sure any of them are dupes, except maybe dep.
Climbing skyscrapers? I didn't know he was Spiderman!
(also chopper had a dupe)
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and just kind of sad overall. Here is a guy who just says shit (I mean, how does Dallas not run the boys like a family business?) that may or may not be true in a way that makes him sound like he is breaking new ground or sharing some deep cover info.. He is a joke..
This Jones contract thing will appeal to the folks who want to believe that no matter what but it just doesn't pass the smell test when in reality it was done to make sure that they could KEEP Barkley without committing to a long term deal with him at $$$$$'s he wanted. It was either Jones gets done and keep Barkley or neither was getting done and Jones would be franchised... I the Giants made the mistake of keeping Barkley (twice actually) when in reality franchising Jones and letting Barkley leave was the BEST financial option..
People will ignore that fact and ignore the fact that the contract for Jones was done with basically a two year window in mind. Yes, the Giants won in 2022 with him, not because of him but that doesn't mean we can't do that again.. What Jones's contract means is he needs to be the WHY if he will realize the full contract value.
Lombardi is a joke- has been for a long time and honestly this isn't very insightful at all. I would love to see someone have a take on the whole Jones & Barkley connection for the 2023 off-season, what really went into play there and take a deeper look at what was really being done. Instead it is always focused on Mara made JS and BD do the deal with Jones and I don't buy that. i think they were told to keep both (sign one and Franchise the other) and the calculated risk was less with Jones (as he would be easier to inflate the contract $'s based on the position and with an out in the deal, where Barkley wanted high end RB money and doubtful he would accept an escape clause in there)..
Fascinating theory. You mean to tell me the Giants decided to give Jones a stupid contract, paid him an extra 10 to 20 million a year, so that they could save 1 or 2 million a year on the Barkley contract?
That makes perfect business sense. Actually, it makes no sense at all. Please stop repeating it.
The DJ contract is the dumbest contract in sports history - and it was self-evident at the time. Those of us who pounded the table hard against it were vilified as haters. But the rah rah delusional optimism was running amok at the time and Schoen fell for it like an imbecilic mark in a fraudulent confidence scheme.
But trying to justify DJ's contract now for any reason at all in hindsight, is arguably dumber than Schoen giving him the contract in the first place. I just cannot believe there are knowledgable people who somehow can't recognize that what Schoen did with DJ was worse than anything Gettleman or Reese ever did to this franchise. By far.
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In comment 16521977 Jerry in_DC said:
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They are run as a vessel to support Daniel Jones in achieving his personal and financial objectives.
The closest analogy would be the Aston Martin Formula 1 team, which was purchased so that the owner's son could have a permanent spot on the grid in F1.
Jones Derangement Syndrome continues to claim victims. Such a moronic take. The Giants are a 100 year old organization, with mixed results throughout their history, but the idea they are run now to serve the needs of one player is so mind-numbingly stupid. But this is what Jones has done to fans.
Turned them into brain-dead megaphones. Carl Banks hit it on the head.
You have it wrong. Jones Derangement Syndrome is when fans make every excuse for a bad and failed QB and come up with reasons why we should stick with him long after every other NFL franchise would have moved on. If we were the Commanders you would be laughing your ass off about our situation. But it's the Giants and Jones, therfore: Jones Derangement Syndrome.
Fan outlook and attitude is going to be driven by the team's performance. There are plenty of threads that have nothing to do with Jones, Mara, or how much the team sucks.
Right now you can go talk about Schmitz being a comeback candidate, Travis Tracy being the next Alvin Kamara, OTAs, Jordan Phillips, or any number of other topics. You'll generally find those topics lightly discussed because few people care.
No one is making you click on threads about Jones and no one is stopping you from posting on our starting threads on other issues. You just like bitching about people bitching.
And people will stop bitching when the Giants stop being a poorly run joke of a football team. People are pissed, and they should be.
I just want to say we didn't miss you! But hugs and kisses.
1000x over, this.
I have no issue with DJ threads. Pro or Con.
But inserting him into threads about other topics is tired. Yes, the QB IS related to most things football...but stating the same things simply because a poster may believe that there is ONE BBIr that may not be aware of their opinion, is childish and takes away from the conversation.
The thread becomes a "look at me."
I have no issue with DJ threads. Pro or Con.
But inserting him into threads about other topics is tired. Yes, the QB IS related to most things football...but stating the same things simply because a poster may believe that there is ONE BBIr that may not be aware of their opinion, is childish and takes away from the conversation.
The thread becomes a "look at me."
People feel the Giants are badly mismanaging the most important position, and the data dramatically supports the view. How is this "look at me" on a Giants fan board? You could make the case that we should be debating nothing else, because nothing else matters if you don't get QB right.
Enjoy the bad football. At least your guy Gettleman can't much be blamed anymore.
You really have to dig to find positive outcomes for Jones. And that typically is over a small sample size.
The positive takes on Jones vary somewhere between projection, hope, and excuses. When there is a strong body of evidence Jones is a good quarterback, the tone of the debate will change.
If you take a look in the archives there was a time when Beckham could no wrong, and a time Manning was edging towards draft disappointment.
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In comment 16522251
I have no issue with DJ threads. Pro or Con.
But inserting him into threads about other topics is tired. Yes, the QB IS related to most things football...but stating the same things simply because a poster may believe that there is ONE BBIr that may not be aware of their opinion, is childish and takes away from the conversation.
The thread becomes a "look at me."
People feel the Giants are badly mismanaging the most important position, and the data dramatically supports the view. How is this "look at me" on a Giants fan board? You could make the case that we should be debating nothing else, because nothing else matters if you don't get QB right.
If you want to discuss management, pick or start a management thread.
Same with DJ.
If someone wants to start a thread about their excitement for the season or high expectations...you should likely not even open that thread.
If you have a fact-based opinion on a topic, all positive and negative views should be equally welcome.
Otherwise what are we doing here?
There are many threads criticizing Jones, Schoen, and Mara. I haven't started a BBI thread in years.
The team is a fucking mess. That is objectively true. If the amount of negative conversation bothers you that it up with the Giants, not the people observing that the sky is blue.
I think that you have missed the point/spirit of the conversation.
Keep the DJ criticisms to DJ specific threads.
That goes for those that wish to derail a thread, regardless of what they want to discuss or not.
It's not so much blindness as arrogance. The belief to not tell a board once, twice or three times, but literally dozens of times a day what a terrible franchise this is, what a terrible QB Jones is, what a terrible owner Mara is. Over and over.
And then to call something out as duperiffic is the height of smug cluelessness as there is no such callout of Producer's dupe(who is right here on this thread) or the 257th reincarnation of Jimmy Googs. I know many people who personally asked eric to have their accounts deleted who aren't coming back as dupes. BB '56 is never coming here as a dupe, nor is Britt. They, like many others tired of the same crap day after day.
I'm sure christian doesn't miss them either. Fewer people to regale on his exploits as a master clockmaker....
The last few iterations almost exclusively just come to BBI to complain about BBI. Imagine coming to a site just to complain about it. What a sad life.
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the echo chamber.
I just want to say we didn't miss you! But hugs and kisses.
You said we. Change that to I. Speak for yourself.
The loudest posters here may not miss FMIC but I feel comfortable saying that the lurkers would welcome a different voice from time to time.
And he's right about echo chambers. It's a problem all over the web.
Maybe one day the Giants will start winning consistently again and we can argue about other things. One can only hope.
Big year 3 coming. I will hope for the best and expose my heart while risking massive disappointment yet again. What else can I do. I do like parts of the roster/depth chart. But there are some question marks.
If you want to start a thread on Tomon Fox being the next LT, or Theo Johnson being the next Kelce, go ahead - no one is stopping you. The number of responses will tell you how interested people are.
No one cares.
But if people are going to talk about what the Giants' prospects are, as well as the how and why of those prospects, the key players are going to be mentioned. And further, the performance of those key players is going to be assessed. That is what people care about.
But the QB situation is like a black cloud that hovers over every aspect of the franchise right now. It’s impossible not to discuss it.
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In comment 16522291 Brown_Hornet said:
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In comment 16522251
I have no issue with DJ threads. Pro or Con.
But inserting him into threads about other topics is tired. Yes, the QB IS related to most things football...but stating the same things simply because a poster may believe that there is ONE BBIr that may not be aware of their opinion, is childish and takes away from the conversation.
The thread becomes a "look at me."
People feel the Giants are badly mismanaging the most important position, and the data dramatically supports the view. How is this "look at me" on a Giants fan board? You could make the case that we should be debating nothing else, because nothing else matters if you don't get QB right.
Hard to tell if you're serious.
If you want to discuss management, pick or start a management thread.
Same with DJ.
If someone wants to start a thread about their excitement for the season or high expectations...you should likely not even open that thread.
This is a thread about management. So what you are saying I should do, I am doing.
Shall we discuss what you are doing? Chasing people around a message board and policing what they say about Daniel Jones and how they say it. Why do you think you have a better idea what opinions people should have? Why do you think you are suited to correct people about how and where they should express their feelings?
The last few iterations almost exclusively just come to BBI to complain about BBI. Imagine coming to a site just to complain about it. What a sad life.
When everyone started going after his butt-buddy(Gettleman), he couldn’t hack it.
The two times the Giants have poked their head out of the water, '16 and '22, have been followed by more pain.
It's been a tough decade +.
Of course none of us are happy
At the same point some us don’t take the approach literally repeating the same exact same thing day after day on thread after thread and making shit up like playing the race card
We have a few posters who thinks the the organization has a “type” and won’t draft a black quarterback
Biggest proponent of this is….is participating in this thread
I don't think the Giants are racist. That seems absurd to me. As for the black QB component, one has to remember there weren't a lot of starting black QBs...well, ever. Doug Williams was the first to win a Super Bowl in the '87 season. But I still think-off the top of my head-a majority of starting QBs in the league are white. & the Giants had Eli from '04-'19 & then Jones to the present.
Games started by tall white QBs: 1,399
Games started by anyone fitting any other description: 6 (5 in 2023 only sure to injury)
Games started by tall white QBs: 1,399
Games started by anyone fitting any other description: 6 (5 in 2023 only sure to injury)
Hey douchebag
Why don’t you go ask Eric if I am a dupe?
And yes….lowlife’s race bait…regardless of the issue/position
Games started by tall white QBs: 1,399
Games started by anyone fitting any other description: 6 (5 in 2023 only sure to injury)
Go Terps takes his ball home and goes home when called out by a moderator. And only comes back to have his ego stroked and bitch and complain. He has openly rooted for giants to fail with Jones so he could be right.
He has called Mara racist such as in the post above.
Terps is a miserable human being and needs BBI for counseling services. Hopefully if the Giants win a few games - he’ll leave like the bitch he has shown before.
If you have a fact-based opinion on a topic, all positive and negative views should be equally welcome.
Otherwise what are we doing here?
I think people should stop posting in threads who have already expressed their opinions on the topic hundreds of times in hundreds of threads.
Surely you have to be tired of the constant posting of the same thing from Terps, SGFG, Producer amongst others who say the SAME thing in every thread.
Debating on this site is non existent when a few posters hijack the thread and that’s exactly what they do. Even if you agree with them, you know it’s true.
I assume (almost) everyone is operating in good faith, and any ribbing is good natured.
I can count on one finger the poster who I think exclusively participates on this site to attack posters, with no intention to literally ever debate football.
Sadly, those voices get drown out too often. And that’s with the pro and anti Jones crowd.
Woof that's rough. The Giants have definitely been the worst NFC team over the last decade.
Either way its history within the annuals of Mara Tech. Buying into a franchise within a premium market and founder.
Only what 8 NFC East titles since its creation. 8 first quarter touchdowns in the past three seasons. I think the number 8 is the flag we missed.
As bad as it was and is, the four superbowls might have kept the kool-aid to be poured and shared within the front office.
Losing is one think, not being competitive is the pain point.
Thankfully the Jets are as bad if not worse.
Ownership was soft on the front office for over a decade (many poor drafts). Coaches were let go but only in more recent years did shake up to the front office happen.
When the Giants finally recover from the Reese great destruction of the LoS (extended by Dave and now Schoen) they will again start winning the NFCE if they have the right HC with enough good players outside of the fronts.
Either way its history within the annuals of Mara Tech. Buying into a franchise within a premium market and founder.
Only what 8 NFC East titles since its creation. 8 first quarter touchdowns in the past three seasons. I think the number 8 is the flag we missed.
As bad as it was and is, the four superbowls might have kept the kool-aid to be poured and shared within the front office.
Losing is one think, not being competitive is the pain point.
Thankfully the Jets are as bad if not worse.
8 first quarter touchdowns over the past three seasons?
That is just crazy-level bad.
Go Terps takes his ball home and goes home when called out by a moderator.
The moderator was completely out of line in his call out. The moderator in question is a rose-colored glasses homer who did not like anyone complaining about Jones and this organization. I also stopped posting here for a while after that because of actions like that from adults who should know better and not be so thin skinned where he can't stand opinions contrary to his own.
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Go Terps takes his ball home and goes home when called out by a moderator.
The moderator was completely out of line in his call out. The moderator in question is a rose-colored glasses homer who did not like anyone complaining about Jones and this organization. I also stopped posting here for a while after that because of actions like that from adults who should know better and not be so thin skinned where he can't stand opinions contrary to his own.
You may be right. But the optics of him leaving because of his tone on the board was questioned and the Giants were having some success, only to come back to gloat when things went very poorly (for a myriad of reasons) and only continued throughout the entire offseason screams agenda driven.
It has gotten to the point where it doesnt matter if he is right or wrong, his primary goal is to hijack threads and make it about him. I would venture 97% of the posters here have a very similair opinion of Jones that he does. But a very few act like he does.
This site is mostly people who are reasonable. But the overwhelming majority of posts are made by the ends of the spectrums - the Terps who doubt every move that is made, and the Pollyannas who swoon over a good play or game and then ignore everything they see for the next 10 if it is poor. Those are the people who make up 80% of the Jones threads.
The last 10 years have made many - but not all - of the pollyannas drift away. Nobody calls them out for getting frustrated with this place. When Terps leaves people jump on him like he hates this team and wants it to fail. Nobody who posts as much as he does hates this team. The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy. People like me who love this team are frustrated that Giants games are difficult to watch because this team seems more locked in to being 'fair' to an individual player at the expense of the team. You may not see it that way, but many do.
Lombardi deals in bullshit. Keep slinging that bullshit. Fans fucking love it.
The Giants QB is bad. The OL is bad. The receivers are bad. Some of these may change, but recently this is true.
Nobody - ownership, media, fans - is making a hard case that the OL and receivers are good. There is no debate. There are no positive comments from Mara, no plants from state media, no massive financial commitments, no support from the fans.
With Daniel, who is a bad starting QB, we have all those things. Praise from Mara, planted media stories, massive contract, fan support (some still love him, some are more of the "leave Daniel alone" variety.
Thus, there is back and forth on Daniel. There is much less on the other problem areas.
The Giants QB is bad. The OL is bad. The receivers are bad. Some of these may change, but recently this is true.
Nobody - ownership, media, fans - is making a hard case that the OL and receivers are good. There is no debate. There are no positive comments from Mara, no plants from state media, no massive financial commitments, no support from the fans.
With Daniel, who is a bad starting QB, we have all those things. Praise from Mara, planted media stories, massive contract, fan support (some still love him, some are more of the "leave Daniel alone" variety.
Thus, there is back and forth on Daniel. There is much less on the other problem areas.
And this is what drives much of the frustration. Management never defends the team as a whole or individual players - with the exception of Daniel Jones.
Nobody in the front office or state controlled media (Papa, Banks, Dottino, et al) are concerned about saying the Oline isn't good enough, or the WRs aren't good enough. They will criticize them all day. The QB? "That's on us for not putting better people around Daniel. He's played as well as anyone can expect and who knows how good he can be if those other a**holes start playing better?"
This is a Mara family trait. Wellington did the same thing.
Unfortunately, that's not a way to run a football team.
I will also hasten to add that this is true also: "John Mara is a very nice man and very genuine."
This site is mostly people who are reasonable. But the overwhelming majority of posts are made by the ends of the spectrums - the Terps who doubt every move that is made, and the Pollyannas who swoon over a good play or game and then ignore everything they see for the next 10 if it is poor. Those are the people who make up 80% of the Jones threads.
The last 10 years have made many - but not all - of the pollyannas drift away. Nobody calls them out for getting frustrated with this place. When Terps leaves people jump on him like he hates this team and wants it to fail. Nobody who posts as much as he does hates this team. The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy. People like me who love this team are frustrated that Giants games are difficult to watch because this team seems more locked in to being 'fair' to an individual player at the expense of the team. You may not see it that way, but many do.
Oh please.
DJ's performance 7 days later in the Eagle Playoff Game. Never mentioned.
This site is mostly people who are reasonable. But the overwhelming majority of posts are made by the ends of the spectrums - the Terps who doubt every move that is made, and the Pollyannas who swoon over a good play or game and then ignore everything they see for the next 10 if it is poor. Those are the people who make up 80% of the Jones threads.
The last 10 years have made many - but not all - of the pollyannas drift away. Nobody calls them out for getting frustrated with this place. When Terps leaves people jump on him like he hates this team and wants it to fail. Nobody who posts as much as he does hates this team. The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy. People like me who love this team are frustrated that Giants games are difficult to watch because this team seems more locked in to being 'fair' to an individual player at the expense of the team. You may not see it that way, but many do.
Great post.
This site is mostly people who are reasonable. But the overwhelming majority of posts are made by the ends of the spectrums - the Terps who doubt every move that is made, and the Pollyannas who swoon over a good play or game and then ignore everything they see for the next 10 if it is poor. Those are the people who make up 80% of the Jones threads.
The last 10 years have made many - but not all - of the pollyannas drift away. Nobody calls them out for getting frustrated with this place. When Terps leaves people jump on him like he hates this team and wants it to fail. Nobody who posts as much as he does hates this team. The opposite of love is not hate, it is apathy. People like me who love this team are frustrated that Giants games are difficult to watch because this team seems more locked in to being 'fair' to an individual player at the expense of the team. You may not see it that way, but many do.
Great post...
For context, my daughter was born in 2013 and son was born in 2016. These are the prime years where their establish fandom, and I'm doing my best to steer them to my teams. Sundays are always Giants days, and the day revolves on the Giants game.
Because the Giants have been so bad and so uninteresting, my son has shown little interest in them (he will watch the Knicks and Rangers because they are exciting). My Daughter will watch the big games, but is far from seeking out the games (again, she will watch the Knicks and Rangers because they are exciting).
I'm sick of the losing and want my kids to enjoy the Giants like I grew up doing. I'm not tied to any player on this roster... I want them to do whatever is needed to win.
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In comment 16522062 Go Terps said:
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The Giants won 10 games, finished third in the division, were 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, went 4-6-1 after Halloween, were outscored for the season, and ended the year being non-competitive against a division rival.
For the good teams in the NFL that'd be a bad year. For the Giants it's the last time they 'won'.
Terrible standards.
See, this is a perfect example of your hyperbole. Your post lacks any context. Getting to the divisional round of the NFL playoffs is never a bad season, unless you're talking about a team with concrete Super Bowl expectations or that had gone 16-1 or 17-0 in the regular season. The Giants were far from that kind of team which made it all the more impressive when they were doing it.
Also, we know it was a good season because you packed up shop and went MIA for awhile and we all know the reason is because you couldn't handle your many narratives unraveling at once.
Did that clown really disappear during the 2022 season?
What a fraud
I know this won't change a damn thing but, I remember that thread well. Terps left for a while because one of the mods threatened to ban him for repeatedly being critical about Jones.
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In comment 16522066 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16522062 Go Terps said:
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The Giants won 10 games, finished third in the division, were 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, went 4-6-1 after Halloween, were outscored for the season, and ended the year being non-competitive against a division rival.
For the good teams in the NFL that'd be a bad year. For the Giants it's the last time they 'won'.
Terrible standards.
See, this is a perfect example of your hyperbole. Your post lacks any context. Getting to the divisional round of the NFL playoffs is never a bad season, unless you're talking about a team with concrete Super Bowl expectations or that had gone 16-1 or 17-0 in the regular season. The Giants were far from that kind of team which made it all the more impressive when they were doing it.
Also, we know it was a good season because you packed up shop and went MIA for awhile and we all know the reason is because you couldn't handle your many narratives unraveling at once.
Did that clown really disappear during the 2022 season?
What a fraud
I know this won't change a damn thing but, I remember that thread well. Terps left for a while because one of the mods threatened to ban him for repeatedly being critical about Jones.
Mbavaro knows that and was likely on that same thread as well.
DJ's performance 7 days later in the Eagle Playoff Game. Never mentioned.
Yep! It was a horrible performance. One of the worst in his career.
Terps posts his opinion a lot and I get why people with a different opinion get frustrated with it, but what I don't see is him personally stalking and attacking individual posters the way many go after him personally. It's good way to identify the people who are worth ignoring because they are so overly emotional.
No he doesn’t.
Terps posts his opinion a lot and I get why people with a different opinion get frustrated with it, but what I don't see is him personally stalking and attacking individual posters the way many go after him personally. It's good way to identify the people who are worth ignoring because they are so overly emotional.
Tell ya what….if you think I am a dupe….feel free to ask Eric
People who post the race card are divisive and that crap had no place on this board
If you disagree with me…that’s fine, but that’s my stance
I don't think it's good form for posters who have been uninvited from the party, to complain or bait other posters in the same situation.
I think the word dupe is thrown around too loosely. It's pretty damn easy to figure out if someone formally posted under another name. If the admins care/don't care if someone is back, why should anyone else? A dupe to me is someone posting under two handles at the same time.
I also find the noble protection of BBI against negativity/positivity a little rich. The collective number of keystrokes devoted to criticizing Go Terps and his posting frequency certainly exceeds his actual posts. Is that behavior not counterproductive?
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that mbavaro acted like he had no idea Terps was gone for a while, and reacted to it with the same feigned horror.
Terps posts his opinion a lot and I get why people with a different opinion get frustrated with it, but what I don't see is him personally stalking and attacking individual posters the way many go after him personally. It's good way to identify the people who are worth ignoring because they are so overly emotional.
Tell ya what….if you think I am a dupe….feel free to ask Eric
People who post the race card are divisive and that crap had no place on this board
If you disagree with me…that’s fine, but that’s my stance
I never said you were (or weren't) a dupe or said anything about anyone using the race card. Stick to what people actually said if you want to argue with them. It will help them try and take you seriously.
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In comment 16523269 Mike from Ohio said:
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that mbavaro acted like he had no idea Terps was gone for a while, and reacted to it with the same feigned horror.
Terps posts his opinion a lot and I get why people with a different opinion get frustrated with it, but what I don't see is him personally stalking and attacking individual posters the way many go after him personally. It's good way to identify the people who are worth ignoring because they are so overly emotional.
Tell ya what….if you think I am a dupe….feel free to ask Eric
People who post the race card are divisive and that crap had no place on this board
If you disagree with me…that’s fine, but that’s my stance
I never said you were (or weren't) a dupe or said anything about anyone using the race card. Stick to what people actually said if you want to argue with them. It will help them try and take you seriously.
Mike
I know you didn’t say anything about the race card and I wasn’t referring to you and perhaps I should have made that more clear…so that’s my bad
For the record….i do think you are a good/fair poster and the few times we have engaged…it’s been a good discussion
I don't think it's good form for posters who have been uninvited from the party, to complain or bait other posters in the same situation.
I think the word dupe is thrown around too loosely. It's pretty damn easy to figure out if someone formally posted under another name. If the admins care/don't care if someone is back, why should anyone else? A dupe to me is someone posting under two handles at the same time.
I also find the noble protection of BBI against negativity/positivity a little rich. The collective number of keystrokes devoted to criticizing Go Terps and his posting frequency certainly exceeds his actual posts. Is that behavior not counterproductive?
I think many of us excuse our own hypocrisy by reasoning that another poster 'started something'. I think we use that to insult/name call other posters. Someone called me an insulting name so I'll do the same. Someone else was trying to piss me off so I'll do the same.
A problem with that is it just continues the cycle. Although, it is not always easy to not retaliate. I have continued many cycles here unfortunately.
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In comment 16522066 Chris684 said:
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In comment 16522062 Go Terps said:
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The Giants won 10 games, finished third in the division, were 0-5 against Philly and Dallas, went 4-6-1 after Halloween, were outscored for the season, and ended the year being non-competitive against a division rival.
For the good teams in the NFL that'd be a bad year. For the Giants it's the last time they 'won'.
Terrible standards.
See, this is a perfect example of your hyperbole. Your post lacks any context. Getting to the divisional round of the NFL playoffs is never a bad season, unless you're talking about a team with concrete Super Bowl expectations or that had gone 16-1 or 17-0 in the regular season. The Giants were far from that kind of team which made it all the more impressive when they were doing it.
Also, we know it was a good season because you packed up shop and went MIA for awhile and we all know the reason is because you couldn't handle your many narratives unraveling at once.
Did that clown really disappear during the 2022 season?
What a fraud
I know this won't change a damn thing but, I remember that thread well. Terps left for a while because one of the mods threatened to ban him for repeatedly being critical about Jones.
And that mod is now also out on Jones
The Giants are 1 of 32 in a unique antitrust enterprise. To quote Wellington Mara's close friend Art Modell, the NFL is run by “a bunch of fat-cat Republicans who vote socialist on football.” Art Modell and Pete Rozelle were the two key people that convinced Wellington Mara to share the TV money equally. That created the parity that allowed the NFL to grow into what it’s become. That's why Wellington is deservedly in the NFL HOF.
Rosabeth Moss Kanter from Harvard Business Review said this in article from 2011:
There is a very interesting NFL off the field potential development that could impact the Giants more than the other 32 teams because of their unique 50/50 ownership.
One of the possibilities on the table: allowing institutional wealth, including private equity, to invest in NFL franchises, which the league has never permitted.
A move to allow private equity firms or institutional wealth to invest as limited partners could free up cash for owners to pursue projects such as stadium renovations and would represent a large shift in how the league has historically operated, with the majority of franchises traditionally run as family businesses with single-family ownership.
The Giants have the only 50/50 ownership setup in the history of the NFL. The NFL has changed its by-laws to never allow a straight 50/50 again. Not only is the 50/50 split unique but the two ownership families could not be more different.
There are 11 Mara's who own an equal part of their 50%. Their only business is the football team, and it generates their wealth. There are 3 Tisch's who equally own their 50% of the team and each one is a billionaire several times over without the Giants income.
Enter institutional wealth, which could be more amenable to passive investment. Arctos, for example, advertises on the company's website they are "long-horizon investors with no aspirations for control ownership."
There are other reasons for the NFL to consider private equity. For example, there is variance of wealth among NFL owners. Some owners have a vast amount of their fortune tied up in their teams and therefore less access to nonteam-related cash, so private equity firms could provide those owners with liquidity.
The Tisch family probably doesn't need to pull money out the Giants. This is pure speculation, but I don't think there's any reason for them to sell any of their 50% and become minority owners unless they are tired of their name being associated with the Giants ineptitude. I think that's unlikely.
I think the Mara family might be more tempted, but their hands might be tied. I'll take another guess and say I think both families would have the first option on any sale of any percentage. So, if the Mara's wanted to sell 10% to raise cash the Tisch family might have a contractual first option to buy that 10%.
Even if the Tisch's don't, if the Mara's were to sell 10% to someone else, they'd become minority owners. I can't imagine I will ever see that. Maybe the two families will make an agreement to both sell 10%. The Tisch family doesn't need the money, but I could see them agreeing to that for their partners. Regardless of the Giants 1/32nd interesting business times are coming to the NFL.
Private equity in the NFL? How team ownership might shift - ( New Window )