His absence from OTAs was one we already knew was coming, but Schoen has also made it known he does not want to give him a new deal after giving him one just a year ago. The WR group also has been redone under Schoen/Daboll with Nabers, Hyatt, and Robinson. Throw in Hodgins and possibly Allen Robinson or Isaiah Mckenzie as the depth.
If the talks have reached an impasse what can the Giants get? The only noteworthy recent WR trade to set a benchmark, would be Stefon Diggs fetching a 2025 2nd round pick, and although he's a better player, he's 3.5 years older (Slayton just turned 27, Diggs will be 31 during the season).
In terms of cap space saved, waiting until after June 1st might make sense. Unlike a cut/retirement they I don't believe they can make a trade designated as post June 1 - once he is moved it takes effect (correct me if I'm wrong there). Doing it before saves them $3.8M but waiting a week would be $6.4M with the difference moving to next season. The new team would only be on the hook for $2.5M for this year, but presumably a new deal would be in the works before the trade, but that's a great starting point.
Slayton has been a consistent 700+ yard receiver for the Giants. That is pretty great value for a 5th round pick and could probably be even better with more help. It would suck to lose him with what appears to be a WR room with some depth for the first time in a long time, but it happens. Maybe Waller finally announces retirement and they give Slayton more money. Until then I wonder if they could get a Toney-like deal or would it just be a day 3 lottery ticket?
And as far as Waller goes, Waller has nothing to do with Slayton. Imo, Waller already made up his mind and the Giamts will wait to file paperwork on his retirement until June 1st just like the Eagles are doing with Kelce. There is no difference between cutting a player and a player retiring when it comes to the cap. They are treated the same. We aren't saving money on Waller. The only thing that will happen is we split the difference of money owed between this year and next year. We aren't saving money with his retirement so that has no effect on Slayton whatsoever.
Diggs is much older, much more expensive, and declining and also doesn't have much of contract left. Jerry Jeudy may have been a better example. He's been a first round disappointment but his production has been similar to Slayton's. He's younger and got a $50M extension after the trade.
This sounds about right. I wouldn't be excited for it, but if the situation is untenable then this seems like about the value I'd expect.
Keep him for the playoff push.
Keep him for the playoff push.
I agree with this, I hope they're able to reach a compromise. Even if Hyatt does passes him on the depth chart, he would be the best WR4 they've had in a long time. It would be great to have that kind of depth.
Keep him for the playoff push.
Playoff push hahaha. This Giants team is going to be a bottom of the barrel team this year.
A: He's got one year left on his deal and wants an extension
B: Ideally he winds up the 4th best WR on the team
C: Its not ideal to have your 4th best WR as the highest paid WR, just better ways to use those precious cap $$ such as hey, you don't need to use them all this year and they can carry over to next year or when the Giants are contenders and could use one elite guard in FA (for example) or a DB or whatever
D: Your depth should come from McKenzie, Robinson, Hodgins, etc who are paid commensurate with their role
E: His timing is off with when the Giants should be expected to contend
for those reasons I'm out on Slayton and he should be traded
unless you're delusional and expect to contend this year, using precious cap $$ to pay Slayton $8M+ to be WR4 is just bad management/roster building.
How about trade him and keep the $8M saved or whatever it is for next year.
worth it.
Slayton was top 40 among WRs in yards, top 20 in YPR, top in YPT last year.
You don't cut guys who in that group. That's an outstanding floor for a 2nd WR.
If Robinson and Hyatt beat him out at camp, then trade him.
Slayton good player or bad player is not in debate (for me) what is though is he was WR1/target 1 in the passing game basically the whole season. Hyatt was a rookie, Wan'Dale missed a few games, Waller missed a lot of the season. Barkley missed time.
Often receiving stats are a function of "you have to throw to someone" as much as the actual player quality. Again though, I am not debating if Slayton is good or not, but going forward I do not expect Slayton to be the main option in the offense. He *should* be the 3rd or 4th option so what he did in 2023 (or any year) is irrelevant to me - if anything wouldn't it just make him more valuable in a trade?
But reality is the Giants are shopping him or have checked around and know his value and it's not what you think for a WR who you are fatigued from sharing meaningless stats.
I honestly find it comical he’s holding out.
That couldn't be any less true. Slayton ranked 52nd targets among receivers last year, but was 39th in yards.
Slayton ranked 11th among WRs in YPR, and 10th in YPT. That's why ESPN advanced analytics ranked him the 30th best WR in the NFL last year. He was extremely efficient. He should be getting the ball more.
Guys who are getting the ball because "someone has to" don't have outstanding efficiency numbers, they compile catches like Evan Engram.
On a per game basis he was 2nd in the team in targets behind Waller. For a guys who got 4.6 looks per game, Slayton was really efficient.
Same question I posed before. If Hyatt replaces Slayton, what would a good season for him look like?
I liked Randle better than Slayton, and Randle was a #2 basically because someone had to be. His numbers are similar to Slayton's but better when you consider he was the 2nd option after Beckham.
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Often receiving stats are a function of "you have to throw to someone" as much as the actual player quality.
That couldn't be any less true. Slayton ranked 52nd targets among receivers last year, but was 39th in yards.
Slayton ranked 11th among WRs in YPR, and 10th in YPT. That's why ESPN advanced analytics ranked him the 30th best WR in the NFL last year. He was extremely efficient. He should be getting the ball more.
Guys who are getting the ball because "someone has to" don't have outstanding efficiency numbers, they compile catches like Evan Engram.
On a per game basis he was 2nd in the team in targets behind Waller. For a guys who got 4.6 looks per game, Slayton was really efficient.
Same question I posed before. If Hyatt replaces Slayton, what would a good season for him look like?
Good stuff. To be fair. Mentioning Steve Slayton drops some people's IQ 25-50 points instantly here.
He's not paid much. He was a 5th rounder who definitely has out played his draft slot. FFS. How many Giants have done that on the last 20 years? Dude gets shit on here more than anyone for no rational reason. Not over paid and productive. Maybe they should d trade him and Thomas and Dex. JFC.
The stupid is strong on BBI when it comes to Slayton
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Than anything we could get for him.
Keep him for the playoff push.
Playoff push hahaha. This Giants team is going to be a bottom of the barrel team this year.
Great. You should suspend your account and stop posting until they're not.
Keep him for the playoff push.
It’s common for NFL players to be worth more on the roster than they would be in trade. So if you trade them you don’t worry about getting “fair” value, ‘cause you won’t.
Slayton is a useful player and his contract is relatively cheap. He might have a little trade value but probably not enough to draft his replacement. Trading him isn’t an attractive option IMO.
I would not trade him.
I liked Randle better than Slayton, and Randle was a #2 basically because someone had to be. His numbers are similar to Slayton's but better when you consider he was the 2nd option after Beckham.
Randle didn’t understand the playbook and that’s why he had a short unsuccessful career despite his 2nd round pedigree. I wouldn’t even consider a straight up trade of Slayton for prime Randle.
To the OP, not sure if you have been keeping an eye on this team's injury history, but injuries to 2 WRs is something that can happen easily.
Why would you do that when you just drafted a TE that is one of the highest rated coming out of college; guy who Sy said has the possibility of the highest upside of any in this draft?
If someone offered a #5 and they felt they had enough people in the room to replace him, I'd take it. However, he seems to stay healthy, knows the system and has good speed. FWIW, I think he salary is correct as it is.
He's also making the only power move he can: he sees the writing on the wall, knows he's likely to be the #4 WR this year, and is trying to get a new payday before he becomes irrelevant.
We already got a glimpse at his perceived value on the UFA market. He'd get a conditional 6th or 7th at most.
Slayton market value will increase as we get closer to the start of the season and some front office decides its team is just a deep threat away.
JS should already have decided "I don't need this now" and DS should have a irrevocable future ticket to somewhere else.
Slayton should be the 3rd/4th WR on this team this year and going forward. If you can trade him for a 5th round pick I would do that and allocate that money to someone at another position who is higher up the depth chart.
Slayton is a good WR, but the quality of WRs coming out of college each year makes him pretty easily replaceable.
We need to start prioritizing the right players for money and slot the rest based on their value.
Slayton's value right now is at his lowest because we actually have a good WR room....a young room at cost controlled contracts.
Now is the time to start being smarter and if it means Slayton either has to hold out or play out his contract; so be it.
I am through paying big money for players who who under perform.
Bottom line he's nothing special.
He ain't worth more than he's getting paid now.
I'll redeposite the numbers for you -
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2023/receiving.htm
16th in Yards/reception - 15.5 (better than Tyreek Hill, Deebo Samuel, Puka Nacua, DeVonta Smith, etc), that's just ONE of the stats you mentioned.
About contending teams; If I'm sitting there with a good QB that needs a deep threat (whose O-line gives him time to make the long throws), I'd have NO problem offering the Giants a #3 pick). Under the right circumstances he's a top 20 or 30 receiver, for sure a legit "No. 2"
A trade that's an OK comparison is Donovan Peoples-Jones, who was traded for a 6th at the deadline after falling in the depth chart. Slayton is a better player than DPJ, so I wouldn't be surprised if he could fetch a 5th either at the end of camp or near the deadline from a team in need of a WR.
RE: production, I think a lot of fans have a misperception of what number 2 receivers produce in the NFL. Only 8 teams had a number 2 receiver produce more than the 770 yards Slayton had last year. And each of them had a 1,000 across from them.
I think we're all assuming Nabers will be the no. 1 guy next year. If the no. 2 guy produces like Slayton, he'll likely be a top 10 2nd option.
If that guys is Hyatt, awesome. If that guys is Slayton, awesome. What we know is who Slayton is, and the Giants are betting Hyatt can be that guy.
Darius Slayton (79, 770)
Chris Godwin (130, 1024)
Deebo Samuel (89, 892)
Tyler Lockett (122, 894)
DeVonta Smith (112, 1066)
Jordan Addison (108, 911)
Christian Kirk (85, 787)
Jakobi Meyers (106, 807)
Josh Downs (98, 771)
Jerry Juedy was traded for a 5th and 6th in March, and then signed a three year, $52.5 million contract extension with the Browns.
Juedy
Slayton
Based on the market for Juedy and DPJ, my guess his market value is a 5th.
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In comment 16524825 markky said:
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Than anything we could get for him.
Keep him for the playoff push.
Playoff push hahaha. This Giants team is going to be a bottom of the barrel team this year.
Great. You should suspend your account and stop posting until they're not.
Why? Because I’m not a delusional Giants fan?
I agree 100%, he has more value to the Giants than a trade. Plus he has been healthy unlike others on the team.
He most likely won’t hold out, he has no leverage at this point.
A 4th would be highly unlikely. I'm sure Schoen would know that.
As a blazing fast proven NFL receiver, Slayton's the kind of guy a team in need will pay a little to lock in pre-waivers.
I can't imagine them extending Slayton unless he shows up for camp and crushes it, and even then he could find himself in the cold given the WR logjam. HIs agent is pretty tone deaf. I see him as likely to be gone in August as be extended.
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with conditions to upgrade it to a 4th if Slayton plays 50% or more of the offensive snaps for his new team.
You make an interesting point. But with Nabers, Robinson, and Hyatt it's not likely Slayton would see 50% of the snaps for the Giants, so it might be a stretch on a new team also. There aren't that many teams absolutely desperate for a receiver of Slayton's ability to make him a 50% offensive snap player.
A 4th would be highly unlikely. I'm sure Schoen would know that.
I agree, but a 5th is fair IMO, a 4th is only conditionally fair.
Even if your theory held water from a procedural standpoint (I'm not sure that it does; I don't see any reason why a team couldn't designate a retiree as a 6/1-release in advance just like they do for a standard roster cut), that still doesn't explain why Waller would be cryptic about it for any reason. Kelce announced his retirement, the team acknowledged his retirement, the press reported his retirement, and the only thing remaining is for the organization to file the actual paperwork with the league.
That's materially different than the Giants publicly saying that they don't know what Waller is planning to do, Waller himself publicly saying that he doesn't know what he's planning to do, and the press reporting that no one knows what Waller is planning to do.
I'm not buying the idea that the Giants are actually being shrewd here; I think they're just along for the ride with whatever Waller decides. At a certain point, I assume they'll get tired of waiting for Waller if he doesn't make a decision. But I don't think it's because the Giants have a plan already in action. I think - as with most things they do - they're just waiting to react. Fortunately, they at least put some contingency planning into place this time around.
Your 3rd WR and CB are starters. Your 4th are the 1st backups. You need a lot of real NFL players at those positions.
Now if the argument is that we're going to be bad this year and we should just plan for the future, I'm here for that. But the Giants are actually trying to win. Slayton is a useful member of the team that will probably play ~50% of snaps even if the young guys look good.