now that the offseason is basically 99% complete ahead of training camp, out of what actually happened, are there any moves you wish NYG made?
for me it's the ljarius sneed trade. assuming the exact same contract, his cap # this year 9.9m, which is basically same amount they would save by waller retiring (or getting cut healthy with no grievance).
you are giving up a 2025 3rd round pick, but also gaining back pick #70 which you no longer need to use on Andru Phillips (who I like, but realistically is unlikely to be anywhere close to Sneed). so not only are you adding an all pro versatile corner for his age 27, 28, 29, 30 years, but you can draft Christian Haynes, Cooper Beebe, Payton Wilson, Marshawn Lloyd, or whoever you liked best there.
You could even trade down from #70 to pick up an extra 3rd or 4th in 2025 to compensate for the loss of the pick for Sneed. Houston traded up for #78, and gave up #86 plus #123. Would they have done #86 + next year's 3rd or 4th for #70? Also at the moment the nyg look well positioned to add a comp pick for mckinney which could be 4th round, which would also help offset losing the 2025 3rd.
But, like I said, it was out of their control. Can't force the pats to agree.
Outside of that, I would've liked for them to pay McKinney.
it's basically a 2 year 44m contract with options after that.
getting sneed might have taken them out of the higher end of free agency next year, but id be ok with that. next year jones cap number is changing one way or another. thanks to the bad 2021 draft, they dont project to have anyone all that important hit FA. slayton, azeez, pinnock the only 3 current potential starters.
without waller and with jones cap # reduced by at least $19m, they would project to have more than enough space to fit sneed next year. to fit him this year they'd only minimally need to adjust dex or thomas. id have added sneed and counted his 9.9m this year before paying waller a fresh 11m+ more than if they move on from him now.
yeah at pick #70 that's what i would have ideally liked to get but the DL run had already basically wiped out the day 2's.
Nubin instead of Kris Jenkins is probably the pick im still most tempted to change and if there was a FA on the market i'd most be tempted by it would probably be Lawrence Guy or Calais Campbell.
But, like I said, it was out of their control. Can't force the pats to agree.
Outside of that, I would've liked for them to pay McKinney.
Agree with the idea that DJ's replacement would have been great, and agree that they did what they thought was best under the circumstances
Disagree about McKinney. His contract + Saquon's = what we are paying Burns (and the 2nd rounder)
I think that was the better move
The only way to win in this league is with elite talent.
IMV, Burns is a (fringe) elite talent (and ascending in his play).
Drafting a QB now would give a 2 year period to see if he can play (2024 & 2025). If he hits, you enter 2026 in a great spot cap wise and in prime contention. If he misses, you enter 2026 with a clean slate to draft a new QB which aligns with likely a new regime.
I don't see a big risk there. I'm disappointed they didn't take that approach.
The selection of Muasau made it precisely clear that this regime is fully committed to DJ. And will thus sink with him when he not only serves up his slow-moving-train-wreck-quarterback-play, but will get hurt and trigger the injury settlement when they cut him injured at the end of the year resulting in another gargantuan dead cap hit in 2025.
I now have zero tolerance or patience for Schoen and Daboll on this matter. They bit it, they bought it. Unless Daboll names Lock the starter out of the gate and he somehow works his magic in elevating Lock's play the way he did with Josh Allen, the Giants' record this season will be among its worst in the Super Bowl era.
This would have been a very smart move. Look for Wilson to have a great bounce back contract year
even if they cut jones somehow without injury guarantee triggering, how are you convincing wilson this was a better situation for him in March?
Pitt won 10 games last year,
9 in 2022,
9 in 2021,
12 in 2020.
playoffs 3 of the last 4.
money couldnt even be a factor because of the offset with denver.
i think he ultimately chooses a contender (calais campbell too, though last year he didnt so maybe not).
Quote:
.
even if they cut jones somehow without injury guarantee triggering, how are you convincing wilson this was a better situation for him in March?
Pitt won 10 games last year,
9 in 2022,
9 in 2021,
12 in 2020.
playoffs 3 of the last 4.
money couldnt even be a factor because of the offset with denver.
Success in New York leads to bigger money than success in Pittsburgh. Not to mention, the Giants have shown a tendency to overrate their guys whereas Pittsburgh avoids overpaying.
Quote:
.
even if they cut jones somehow without injury guarantee triggering, how are you convincing wilson this was a better situation for him in March?
Pitt won 10 games last year,
9 in 2022,
9 in 2021,
12 in 2020.
playoffs 3 of the last 4.
money couldnt even be a factor because of the offset with denver.
My understanding is Wilson just wanted a guarantee that he would be the Giants starter. New York is much better for he and his wife's brands than Pittsburgh. And Daboll/Kafka are superior quarterback coaches than Tomlin/Smith.
I thought Thibs and Burns were DEs in this defense. Who would you call DEs that you want to improve upon?
Quote:
In comment 16526715 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
.
even if they cut jones somehow without injury guarantee triggering, how are you convincing wilson this was a better situation for him in March?
Pitt won 10 games last year,
9 in 2022,
9 in 2021,
12 in 2020.
playoffs 3 of the last 4.
money couldnt even be a factor because of the offset with denver.
My understanding is Wilson just wanted a guarantee that he would be the Giants starter. New York is much better for he and his wife's brands than Pittsburgh. And Daboll/Kafka are superior quarterback coaches than Tomlin/Smith.
I dont think ive seen that reported anywhere, and even if it were im not positive I buy it. Wilson is going to start in Pitt so functionally the nyg had nothing to offer. he is 35 years old. I think he is more likely to be focused on being in a winning situation with a really good defense and one of the best coaches in the NFL than rolling the dice on a 3rd year coach with a record under .500.
Drafting a QB now would give a 2 year period to see if he can play (2024 & 2025). If he hits, you enter 2026 in a great spot cap wise and in prime contention. If he misses, you enter 2026 with a clean slate to draft a new QB which aligns with likely a new regime.
I don't see a big risk there. I'm disappointed they didn't take that approach.
I could see it being year 7 too. You never know who pops up at QB in the draft (Jaden Daniels was a preseason second or third rounder) but it's very possible they don't get high enough to get any big-time riser.
Idk, I just have a gut feeling we end up finishing year 7 of Jones before we move on.
They spent more time with JJ than any other team. Unless you believe in conspiracy theories, that means they must have liked him a lot but perhaps were not in full bloom love.
To me;
JJ + Ladd McConkey in the 2nd + the ability to draft BPA in the 2025 1st round
is greater than
Nabers + Nubin + 2025 QB prospect (not to mention the loss of any future premium picks it may cost to acquire a QB they like but may not even like as much as JJ).
This was the year to get the QB and almost officially rid ourselves of the albatross that is DJ.
We are nowhere at QB.
it's not trolling but you're missing the point of the thread unless there's someone you specifically wanted to replace him with?
I know we probably wouldn’t have released Jones anyways, but I would have drafted McCarthy at six & then cut Jones the second he’s able to pass a physical.
But again-per some-I’m ‘trolling’ or ‘spamming’ by thinking that.
In comment 16527133 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
I know we probably wouldn’t have released Jones anyways, but I would have drafted McCarthy at six & then cut Jones the second he’s able to pass a physical.
But again-per some-I’m ‘trolling’ or ‘spamming’ by thinking that.
What great insurance for Thomas and Neal and the mentorship he could have provided is probably worth the contract alone.
Link - ( New Window )
Why not take a shot???
Or--
2nd option would have traded for Fields early then planned early on trading down. Then the priority would've been getting two OL and 1 DE in whatever order.
To start the ball rolling with trading down I would have informed every NFL team with aspirations of being Super Bowl contenders that one of the top teams I was looking to trade with is the Chiefs to get multiple picks and their CB as a threat.
Or--
2nd option would have traded for Fields early then planned early on trading down. Then the priority would've been getting two OL and 1 DE in whatever order.
To start the ball rolling with trading down I would have informed every NFL team with aspirations of being Super Bowl contenders that one of the top teams I was looking to trade with is the Chiefs to get multiple picks and their CB as a threat.
Fields is a good one. Whatever anyone thinks of Jones I'd have gone for Fields over Lock personally. Would have saved a decent chunk of cap space too.
Cut Jones this year? lol
So you didn't crticize Gettlemen's picks of Barkley and/or Jones using the same logic you are using above that we don't know more than they do?
Quote:
.
Cut Jones this year? lol
Why not?
Quote:
In comment 16526671 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.
Cut Jones this year? lol
Why not?
triggers his injury guarantee for 1.
Quote:
In comment 16527800 DefenseWins said:
Quote:
In comment 16526671 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.
Cut Jones this year? lol
Why not?
triggers his injury guarantee for 1.
Did you hear Mueller and Sando talking about Trevor Lawrence in yesterday's podcast? They asked the question, "What if he's just a bigger and faster Daniel Jones?"
To two smart, reasonable observers our quarterback is a cautionary tale.
I think it really would have benefited everyone in the organization to have moved on this offseason.
That said, drafting a QB at 6 is easily the move they should have made. any of the top 3 left should easily surpass DJ's floor, and their ceilings are much higher. In all likelihood, they'll be the same, or better, than DJ. DJ and Nabers, plus a hopefully improved team, will be just good enough to keep us out of top QB range, so might as well take the shot now.
Did you hear Mueller and Sando talking about Trevor Lawrence in yesterday's podcast? They asked the question, "What if he's just a bigger and faster Daniel Jones?" To two smart, reasonable observers our quarterback is a cautionary tale.
I know you hold him to only the highest of standards, but I think most of us can live with the fact that Daniel Jones is not another Tom Brady (or even Peyton Manning, for that matter).
Quote:
Did you hear Mueller and Sando talking about Trevor Lawrence in yesterday's podcast? They asked the question, "What if he's just a bigger and faster Daniel Jones?" To two smart, reasonable observers our quarterback is a cautionary tale.
They don't mean it as a cautionary tale, they're just saying lower those crazy high expectations a tad. Lawrence was projected to be a generational talent (with one foot and four toes already in the Hall of Fame). What they're saying is: "What if he's just a really good QB like Daniel Jones or Eli Manning (who will win you a couple of Super Bowls and occasionally make the Pro Bowl) and not another Tom Brady or Peyton Manning (who will be first ballot Hall of Famers)?"
I know you hold him to only the highest of standards, but I think most of us can live with the fact that Daniel Jones is not another Tom Brady (or even Peyton Manning, for that matter).
Nice try Uncle Milty. But you may want to Search/Replace Daniel Jones in your statement below with a QB that actually fit the description you are attempting to make.
Look forward to see who you come up with.
Quote:
Did you hear Mueller and Sando talking about Trevor Lawrence in yesterday's podcast? They asked the question, "What if he's just a bigger and faster Daniel Jones?" To two smart, reasonable observers our quarterback is a cautionary tale.
They don't mean it as a cautionary tale, they're just saying lower those crazy high expectations a tad. Lawrence was projected to be a generational talent (with one foot and four toes already in the Hall of Fame). What they're saying is: "What if he's just a really good QB like Daniel Jones or Eli Manning (who will win you a couple of Super Bowls and occasionally make the Pro Bowl) and not another Tom Brady or Peyton Manning (who will be first ballot Hall of Famers)?"
I know you hold him to only the highest of standards, but I think most of us can live with the fact that Daniel Jones is not another Tom Brady (or even Peyton Manning, for that matter).
Stop treating DJ and Eli as comparable peers. It's embarrassing.
Quote:
Did you hear Mueller and Sando talking about Trevor Lawrence in yesterday's podcast? They asked the question, "What if he's just a bigger and faster Daniel Jones?" To two smart, reasonable observers our quarterback is a cautionary tale.
They don't mean it as a cautionary tale, they're just saying lower those crazy high expectations a tad. Lawrence was projected to be a generational talent (with one foot and four toes already in the Hall of Fame). What they're saying is: "What if he's just a really good QB like Daniel Jones or Eli Manning (who will win you a couple of Super Bowls and occasionally make the Pro Bowl) and not another Tom Brady or Peyton Manning (who will be first ballot Hall of Famers)?"
I know you hold him to only the highest of standards, but I think most of us can live with the fact that Daniel Jones is not another Tom Brady (or even Peyton Manning, for that matter).
Never has Daniel Jones been a really good quarterback
Quote:
In comment 16529088 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Did you hear Mueller and Sando talking about Trevor Lawrence in yesterday's podcast? They asked the question, "What if he's just a bigger and faster Daniel Jones?" To two smart, reasonable observers our quarterback is a cautionary tale.
They don't mean it as a cautionary tale, they're just saying lower those crazy high expectations a tad. Lawrence was projected to be a generational talent (with one foot and four toes already in the Hall of Fame). What they're saying is: "What if he's just a really good QB like Daniel Jones or Eli Manning (who will win you a couple of Super Bowls and occasionally make the Pro Bowl) and not another Tom Brady or Peyton Manning (who will be first ballot Hall of Famers)?"
I know you hold him to only the highest of standards, but I think most of us can live with the fact that Daniel Jones is not another Tom Brady (or even Peyton Manning, for that matter).
Never has Daniel Jones been a really good quarterback
We'll always have Minnesota.