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NFT: Lets Play Rank the NY Franchises

AROCK1000 : 6/1/2024 11:36 am
I was having this conversation with friends recently and I thought it would make excellent fodder for BBI.
The question is about which NY Franchise in it's History,is the Best,which is the worst.
All four major Sports rank em in order.
Please consider the entire length that the team is in existence and base how good it is relative to the league it's in...
For me its
1-Yankees far and away the top with 27 championships
the next 7 are more challenging to rank.

2-Giants,hard to believe, but it is the 2nd best NY Franchise,8 Championships in it's 100 years or so.
3-Islanders are next with 4 cups since 1972...they moved down from 2 to 3 in the last decade or so.
Here is where it gets difficult, but this is my opinion.
4-KNICKS-holy crap they are this high??
5-RANGERS-not many championships but they have bouts with relevance.
6-METS 2 titles and many enough pennants to keep out of the basement
7-NETS-1 ABA title
8-JETS -1 Super Bowl
Thoughts








As far as history?  
Anakim : 6/1/2024 11:38 am : link
Just count the championships and how recent they were, no?


1. Yankees
2. Football Giants (how pathetic is that?)
3. Rangers
4. Mets
5. Knicks
6. Jets
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/1/2024 11:40 am : link
I think the Nets are behind the Jets. Hell, the Jets have fans. Does anyone in NY give a fuck about the Nets? They didn't seem to generate a ton of buzz even when KD, Kyrie, & Harden were there.
Jets had one of the greatest games in NFL history  
Darwinian : 6/1/2024 11:42 am : link
They're definitely ahead of the Nets.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/1/2024 11:47 am : link
I know a lot of us are down on the organization, but the Giants do have an illustrious history. They won 4 NFL titles prior to the Super Bowl era & have 4 Lombardis. The two best coaches of all time-Vince & BB-were major figures in the team's history. We have the best defensive player-if not the best player in the game's history-in LT. We beat a team going for perfection. I could go on, but I think you get my point.

It isn't like we're the Lions or something historically.
I agree Jets are clearly ahead of Nets  
steve in ky : 6/1/2024 11:54 am : link
.
Knicks may be #2  
Scooter185 : 6/1/2024 12:12 pm : link
Not because of anything on the court, but they maintain a social relevancy within the city. Going to MSG for a Knicks game is an -event-
Mets are too low  
Sean : 6/1/2024 12:24 pm : link
They've only been around since 1962 and have 5 World Series appearances and 2 World Series titles. I'd definitely put them above the Knicks.
Is this about success or popularity?  
Sean : 6/1/2024 12:24 pm : link
.
Meadowlands???  
Iwasinthepool : 6/1/2024 12:35 pm : link
The real interesting thing is, if you include the Devils, and I can see an argument that you should, would they be higher than the Knicks!?!?
RE: ...  
Section331 : 6/1/2024 12:37 pm : link
In comment 16528681 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I think the Nets are behind the Jets. Hell, the Jets have fans. Does anyone in NY give a fuck about the Nets? They didn't seem to generate a ton of buzz even when KD, Kyrie, & Harden were there.


I’m a Nets fan, so take that for what it’s worth, but the Nets have an ABA title, and we’re 2x NBA finalists. I think that puts them ahead of the Jets, although an admittedly low bar.
And if you’re including the Islanders,  
Section331 : 6/1/2024 12:39 pm : link
what about the Devils? 3 cups and 2 other finals appearances isn’t too shabby.
RE: And if you’re including the Islanders,  
Section331 : 6/1/2024 12:42 pm : link
In comment 16528732 Section331 said:
Quote:
what about the Devils? 3 cups and 2 other finals appearances isn’t too shabby.


I think I would put the Devils 3rd. The Islanders run was amazing, but it was also over 40 years ago. Recency should add some weight, IMO.
Sorry Knicks fans, but I can’t put them  
Section331 : 6/1/2024 12:45 pm : link
that high. 2 ships over 50 years ago. Even their battles with MJ’s Bulls were 35 years ago. They definitely look like they’ve righted the ship, but a 2nd round exit doesn’t move the up.
RE: RE: And if you’re including the Islanders,  
Del Shofner : 6/1/2024 12:51 pm : link
In comment 16528735 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 16528732 Section331 said:


Quote:


what about the Devils? 3 cups and 2 other finals appearances isn’t too shabby.



I think I would put the Devils 3rd. The Islanders run was amazing, but it was also over 40 years ago. Recency should add some weight, IMO.


1. Yankees
2. Giants
3. Devils
4. Islanders
5. Rangers
6. Knicks
7. Mets
8. Jets
9. Nets
RE: RE: RE: And if you’re including the Islanders,  
Sec 103 : 6/1/2024 1:07 pm : link
In comment 16528741 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
In comment 16528735 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 16528732 Section331 said:


Quote:


what about the Devils? 3 cups and 2 other finals appearances isn’t too shabby.



I think I would put the Devils 3rd. The Islanders run was amazing, but it was also over 40 years ago. Recency should add some weight, IMO.



1. Yankees
2. Giants
3. Devils
4. Islanders
5. Rangers
6. Knicks
7. Mets
8. Jets
9. Nets


Agree but not a NY team....
RE: RE: RE: RE: And if you’re including the Islanders,  
Jim in Fairfax : 6/1/2024 1:26 pm : link
In comment 16528746 Sec 103 said:
Quote:
In comment 16528741 Del Shofner said:


Quote:


In comment 16528735 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 16528732 Section331 said:


Quote:


what about the Devils? 3 cups and 2 other finals appearances isn’t too shabby.



I think I would put the Devils 3rd. The Islanders run was amazing, but it was also over 40 years ago. Recency should add some weight, IMO.



1. Yankees
2. Giants
3. Devils
4. Islanders
5. Rangers
6. Knicks
7. Mets
8. Jets
9. Nets



Agree but not a NY team....

So Giants & Jets off the list too?
RE: RE: RE: RE: And if you’re including the Islanders,  
BH28 : 6/1/2024 2:28 pm : link
In comment 16528746 Sec 103 said:
Quote:
In comment 16528741 Del Shofner said:


Quote:


In comment 16528735 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 16528732 Section331 said:


Quote:


what about the Devils? 3 cups and 2 other finals appearances isn’t too shabby.



I think I would put the Devils 3rd. The Islanders run was amazing, but it was also over 40 years ago. Recency should add some weight, IMO.



1. Yankees
2. Giants
3. Devils
4. Islanders
5. Rangers
6. Knicks
7. Mets
8. Jets
9. Nets



Agree but not a NY team....


What do you mean by NY team? State? City? If it's state, you forgot the bills. If it's NYC only, then the islanders shouldn't be on the list either. And you can argue if it's NYC then the Giants or Jets shouldn't be on that list either.

It's a lot easier to just say NYC Metro area. I think there is general consensus that NYC area teams is 2 NFL, 2 MLB, 2 NBA, and 3 NHL. The devils play just as close to NYC as the Giants and Jets.
Devils  
AROCK1000 : 6/1/2024 2:48 pm : link
Are not on the list IMHO
1A Giants  
Giant John : 6/1/2024 3:06 pm : link
1B Yankees
3 who cares
RE: RE: RE: And if you’re including the Islanders,  
Carl in CT : 6/1/2024 10:54 pm : link
In comment 16528741 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
In comment 16528735 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 16528732 Section331 said:




Quote:


what about the Devils? 3 cups and 2 other finals appearances isn’t too shabby.



I think I would put the Devils 3rd. The Islanders run was amazing, but it was also over 40 years ago. Recency should add some weight, IMO.





1. Yankees
2. Giants
3. Devils
4. Islanders
5. Rangers
6. Knicks
7. Mets
8. Jets
9. Nets


I put the Devils right before the Jets.
The NY Islanders are not a NY team  
Mike from Ohio : 6/2/2024 12:30 am : link
But the Giants and Jets, who play in New Jersey are? Some of you are such biased homers for your favorites. It’s a pretty easy list for the current teams…

1. Yankees (121 years / 27 championships - 22%)
2. Giants (100 years / 8 championships - 8%)
3. Islanders (52 years / 4 championships - 7.7%)
4. Devils (42 years / 3 championships - 7.1%)
5. Rangers (98 years / 4 championship - 4%)
6. Mets (62 years / 2 championships - 3%)
7. Knicks (78 years / 2 championships - 2.5%)
8. New Jersey Nets (12 years / 0 championships - 0%)

You can argue fan base, relevance, city connection or any other intangible you like to raise your favorites, but this is an objective measure of success as a team in their given league.
I left off theJets  
Mike from Ohio : 6/2/2024 12:48 am : link
They should be 8th with one championship in 64 years.

If you want to include the Bills and Sabres , just put them at the end , tied for last with 0%.
How are the Knicks ahead of the Rangers?  
BestFeature : 6/2/2024 1:30 am : link
If you want to say moving forward sure. The Knicks haven't won since the 70s and have been one of the worst franchises in sports until a few years ago. Even in their great year this year they didn't get as far as the Rangers. The Rangers have 5 conference final appearances in 12 years. Almost 50%. I can go on and on.
Championships  
AROCK1000 : 6/2/2024 5:39 am : link
In comment 16529079 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
But the Giants and Jets, who play in New Jersey are? Some of you are such biased homers for your favorites. It’s a pretty easy list for the current teams…

1. Yankees (121 years / 27 championships - 22%)
2. Giants (100 years / 8 championships - 8%)
3. Islanders (52 years / 4 championships - 7.7%)
4. Devils (42 years / 3 championships - 7.1%)
5. Rangers (98 years / 4 championship - 4%)
6. Mets (62 years / 2 championships - 3%)
7. Knicks (78 years / 2 championships - 2.5%)
8. New Jersey Nets (12 years / 0 championships - 0%)

You can argue fan base, relevance, city connection or any other intangible you like to raise your favorites, but this is an objective measure of success as a team in their given league.

Are a part of it,but it also how relevant a team is in those years and eras in between
Take the Mets, they only have 2 chips but have had frequent playoff runs and World series appearances.
RE: RE: RE: RE: And if you’re including the Islanders,  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/2/2024 8:03 am : link
In comment 16529015 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 16528741 Del Shofner said:


Quote:


In comment 16528735 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 16528732 Section331 said:




Quote:


what about the Devils? 3 cups and 2 other finals appearances isn’t too shabby.



I think I would put the Devils 3rd. The Islanders run was amazing, but it was also over 40 years ago. Recency should add some weight, IMO.





1. Yankees
2. Giants
3. Devils
4. Islanders
5. Rangers
6. Knicks
7. Mets
8. Jets
9. Nets



I put the Devils right before the Jets.

The Devils have more championships than you have brain cells.
I'm a massive Rangers fan  
Bear vs Shark : 6/2/2024 10:29 am : link
and the Devils *should* be higher than the Rangers if the criteria is team success.

By the same token, I have zero idea how OP put the pathetic fucking Knicks over the Rangers. Bouts of relevance? The Rangers have won the second most playoff games in the NHL behind the Lightning in the last 10 years. They won the Presidents Trophy and reached the ECF in 2011 as well.

Zero chance the Knicks are a "better" franchise than the Rangers. Makes me feel like OP doesn't actually watch all the sports of the franchises he's trying to rank.

Knicks fans are hilarious  
Bear vs Shark : 6/2/2024 10:30 am : link
I have no idea where the entitlement comes from.
Bear vs Shark  
AROCK1000 : 6/2/2024 10:57 am : link
In comment 16529163 Bear vs Shark said:
Quote:
and the Devils *should* be higher than the Rangers if the criteria is team success.

By the same token, I have zero idea how OP put the pathetic fucking Knicks over the Rangers. Bouts of relevance? The Rangers have won the second most playoff games in the NHL behind the Lightning in the last 10 years. They won the Presidents Trophy and reached the ECF in 2011 as well.

Zero chance the Knicks are a "better" franchise than the Rangers. Makes me feel like OP doesn't actually watch all the sports of the franchises he's trying to rank.

I'm calling BS...talk what you know bro
A bit pissy this morning after gaging yet another Cup run away....
Did not expect "There's only one New York team" in football  
widmerseyebrow : 6/2/2024 11:22 am : link
To show up on this thread.
RE: Bear vs Shark  
Bear vs Shark : 6/2/2024 1:44 pm : link
In comment 16529174 AROCK1000 said:
Quote:
In comment 16529163 Bear vs Shark said:


Quote:


and the Devils *should* be higher than the Rangers if the criteria is team success.

By the same token, I have zero idea how OP put the pathetic fucking Knicks over the Rangers. Bouts of relevance? The Rangers have won the second most playoff games in the NHL behind the Lightning in the last 10 years. They won the Presidents Trophy and reached the ECF in 2011 as well.

Zero chance the Knicks are a "better" franchise than the Rangers. Makes me feel like OP doesn't actually watch all the sports of the franchises he's trying to rank.



I'm calling BS...talk what you know bro
A bit pissy this morning after gaging yet another Cup run away....
yeah, exactly, another cup run. how many runs do the knicks have? their fucking dogshit and have been my entire fucking life for the most part.

fucking laughably stupid to try and claim their anywhere in the same stratosphere as the rangers (or devils for that matter). i legitimately think the mets have been more successful than knicks. got to the world series in 2000 and 2015 at least.
RE: Knicks may be #2  
fanoftheteam : 6/2/2024 1:45 pm : link
In comment 16528705 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
Not because of anything on the court, but they maintain a social relevancy within the city. Going to MSG for a Knicks game is an -event-



Totally agree. The knicks are New York Cities ONLY team. The Yankees are marketed to men who wear boat shoes, have a house in LBI, and watch Forbes Sports money for pleasure.
The Knicks aren't anywhere near #2.  
Dave in Hoboken : 6/2/2024 1:49 pm : link
They haven't won anything since the fucking 70's. Buy a clue.
The Knicks are clearly not #2.  
Mad Mike : 6/2/2024 1:53 pm : link
The OP was pretty straightforward:
Quote:
The question is about which NY Franchise in it's History,is the Best,which is the worst.

I'm not sure what boat shoes and LBI have to do with anything (other than some people's perpetual foolishness), but they clearly have nothing to with this topic.
RE: The Knicks aren't anywhere near #2.  
Scooter185 : 6/2/2024 1:58 pm : link
In comment 16529261 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
They haven't won anything since the fucking 70's. Buy a clue.


Specifically said because of nothing they've done on the court.

Most teams cannot suck for three decades and sell out the building anyway.

So yes, in terms of actual success the Knicks are at the bottom, but in terms of relevancy within NY they're up there with the Yankees.
RE: RE: The Knicks aren't anywhere near #2.  
Dave in Hoboken : 6/2/2024 2:00 pm : link
In comment 16529273 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 16529261 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


They haven't won anything since the fucking 70's. Buy a clue.



Specifically said because of nothing they've done on the court.

Most teams cannot suck for three decades and sell out the building anyway.

So yes, in terms of actual success the Knicks are at the bottom, but in terms of relevancy within NY they're up there with the Yankees.


"Relevancy" Is a team "relevant" if they've been trash for around 20 years and haven't won in 50 years?
The Knicks are far more relevant than the yankees  
fanoftheteam : 6/2/2024 2:16 pm : link
Within city limits fwiw. You will find a much easier time finding philly sport fans pack a bar to watch the phillies than you will the Yankees in 2024. The knicks however are much more relevant and capture the heart of the city better than any other team in NYC. Id rank them to the top even regarding the OPs post
Ok. Maybe what i said isnt relevent to the op post  
fanoftheteam : 6/2/2024 2:17 pm : link
Its actually a pointless discussion. Aka lets google who has most championships and discussion is over
That guy above was right.  
Dave in Hoboken : 6/2/2024 2:19 pm : link
Knicks fans have a REALLY high opinion of the franchise. Pretty hilarious.
RE: The Knicks are far more relevant than the yankees  
JayBinQueens : 6/2/2024 2:24 pm : link
In comment 16529278 fanoftheteam said:
Quote:
Within city limits fwiw. You will find a much easier time finding philly sport fans pack a bar to watch the phillies than you will the Yankees in 2024. The knicks however are much more relevant and capture the heart of the city better than any other team in NYC. Id rank them to the top even regarding the OPs post


Ya, it's much easier to get people in a foreign city to go to the same bar to watch a team no one else likes than when Yankee fans can go into any sports bar and the Yankees will be on if they're playing
Devils remember  
Carl in CT : 6/2/2024 2:38 pm : link
Should not be mentioned. Not NY at all!! You could argue jets/Giants but they were for many years. Devils NEVER!
the point of the OP  
AROCK1000 : 6/2/2024 3:26 pm : link
And perhaps I didn't explain it well enough...
Is it's not only championships/yrs in league.
its how relevant is the team and does the team consistently win
Or are they habitually bad/poorly run
RE: RE: RE: The Knicks aren't anywhere near #2.  
Scooter185 : 6/2/2024 4:25 pm : link
In comment 16529275 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 16529273 Scooter185 said:


Quote:


In comment 16529261 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


They haven't won anything since the fucking 70's. Buy a clue.



Specifically said because of nothing they've done on the court.

Most teams cannot suck for three decades and sell out the building anyway.

So yes, in terms of actual success the Knicks are at the bottom, but in terms of relevancy within NY they're up there with the Yankees.



"Relevancy" Is a team "relevant" if they've been trash for around 20 years and haven't won in 50 years?


In the case of the Knicks I'd say yes, at least socially relevant within NYC.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/2/2024 4:39 pm : link
I've never lived in NYC, but I've heard Mike 'The Sports Pope' Francesa say that when the Knicks are good, they own NYC.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The Knicks aren't anywhere near #2.  
Dave in Hoboken : 6/2/2024 4:41 pm : link
In comment 16529358 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 16529275 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 16529273 Scooter185 said:


Quote:


In comment 16529261 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


They haven't won anything since the fucking 70's. Buy a clue.



Specifically said because of nothing they've done on the court.

Most teams cannot suck for three decades and sell out the building anyway.

So yes, in terms of actual success the Knicks are at the bottom, but in terms of relevancy within NY they're up there with the Yankees.



"Relevancy" Is a team "relevant" if they've been trash for around 20 years and haven't won in 50 years?



In the case of the Knicks I'd say yes, at least socially relevant within NYC.


This thread isn't just about relevance in NYC, it's also about consistency. The Knicks have been consistently bad until very recently. So, that settles that.
RE: The Knicks are far more relevant than the yankees  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/2/2024 5:05 pm : link
In comment 16529278 fanoftheteam said:
Quote:
Within city limits fwiw. You will find a much easier time finding philly sport fans pack a bar to watch the phillies than you will the Yankees in 2024. The knicks however are much more relevant and capture the heart of the city better than any other team in NYC. Id rank them to the top even regarding the OPs post

If your measure of "relevance" is finding a bar where fans are watching their team, you're always going to find more relevance for out-of-town teams. Yankees fans can watch the team at home, or at the stadium, or spread out among ALL the bars in NYC in little groups of two, three, four people.

Out-of-town fans tend to congregate all in the same bar where they know they can get the bartender to put on their remotely-located team and they can sit around with their fellow fans and watch. This is often the way that out-of-town fans follow their teams, because it can be pricy to access your teams' broadcasts when you're not in market.

That's not an especially complicated concept. A little common sense goes a long way.
RE: Devils remember  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/2/2024 5:06 pm : link
In comment 16529295 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Should not be mentioned. Not NY at all!! You could argue jets/Giants but they were for many years. Devils NEVER!

Says you. But you have the intelligence of a toad, so no one cares.
RE: RE: Devils remember  
Carl in CT : 6/2/2024 5:39 pm : link
In comment 16529381 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16529295 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


Should not be mentioned. Not NY at all!! You could argue jets/Giants but they were for many years. Devils NEVER!


Says you. But you have the intelligence of a toad, so no one cares.


Are they the New York Devils? The poster asked for New York Teams. Nice comment by the way. A complete Jackass as usual.
I guess playing in  
Carl in CT : 6/2/2024 5:42 pm : link
Kansas City, Colorado and New Jersey qualifies the team as New York.
SF  
AROCK1000 : 6/2/2024 5:43 pm : link
In comment 16529367 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I've never lived in NYC, but I've heard Mike 'The Sports Pope' Francesa say that when the Knicks are good, they own NYC.

Being a native nyer and lifetime Knicks fan...I can tell you there is nothing like the buzz the Knicks bring when we are winning. EVERYONE talks about it,the taxi drivers, doormen everyone!!!
RE: RE: RE: Devils remember  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/2/2024 6:09 pm : link
In comment 16529402 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 16529381 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 16529295 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


Should not be mentioned. Not NY at all!! You could argue jets/Giants but they were for many years. Devils NEVER!


Says you. But you have the intelligence of a toad, so no one cares.



Are they the New York Devils? The poster asked for New York Teams. Nice comment by the way. A complete Jackass as usual.

That's what you're basing it on? Do you have any sense of what a metropolitan area represents? If you're hung up on "New York" being in the team's name, are the Nets the New York Nets (anymore, or any time in the past 47 years)? If you're hung up on the team representing NYC, were the Islanders a NYC team when they started? Are they now? Is it just about playing in New York state for you? If so, how are you including the Giants or Jets? How are you excluding the Bills and the Sabres?

As usual, your miniature brain is incapable of anything more nuanced than "derrrrr, do dey have 'new york' in duh name?"
RE: I guess playing in  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/2/2024 6:09 pm : link
In comment 16529404 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Kansas City, Colorado and New Jersey qualifies the team as New York.

Better disqualify the Yanks for starting in Baltimore before moving to NYC.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 6/2/2024 6:11 pm : link
Don’t the Devils still play at The Rock in Newark? Last time I checked, Newark was a stone’s throw away from Manhattan.

They should be included.
RE: RE: I guess playing in  
Scooter185 : 6/2/2024 7:12 pm : link
In comment 16529422 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16529404 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


Kansas City, Colorado and New Jersey qualifies the team as New York.


Better disqualify the Yanks for starting in Baltimore before moving to NYC.


Officially those franchises are not connected
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Knicks aren't anywhere near #2.  
Scooter185 : 6/2/2024 7:15 pm : link
In comment 16529370 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 16529358 Scooter185 said:


Quote:


In comment 16529275 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


In comment 16529273 Scooter185 said:


Quote:


In comment 16529261 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


They haven't won anything since the fucking 70's. Buy a clue.



Specifically said because of nothing they've done on the court.

Most teams cannot suck for three decades and sell out the building anyway.

So yes, in terms of actual success the Knicks are at the bottom, but in terms of relevancy within NY they're up there with the Yankees.



"Relevancy" Is a team "relevant" if they've been trash for around 20 years and haven't won in 50 years?



In the case of the Knicks I'd say yes, at least socially relevant within NYC.



This thread isn't just about relevance in NYC, it's also about consistency. The Knicks have been consistently bad until very recently. So, that settles that.


AROCK clarified his intent after my initial post saying I'd put the Knicks 2 based on their high profile in NYC despite the on court woes.

Winning, consistentcy, etc being the criteria knocks them down tremendously. We agree on that
The poster said NY  
Carl in CT : 6/2/2024 7:55 pm : link
And listed the 8. Follow directions. NJ was not part of his list!
Then at 2:48  
Carl in CT : 6/2/2024 7:56 pm : link
He stated they are not on the list!
RE: Then at 2:48  
Gatorade Dunk : 6/3/2024 3:14 am : link
In comment 16529499 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
He stated they are not on the list!

Oh, well, in that case!

See above about nuance.
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