A few years before I started following the team, and decades before social media added a different dimension to fandom. What was the general feeling in the summer of '86 - thirty years removed from the last title? Did we think we were right on the doorstep? Did we think Chicago and San Fran would spend the rest of the decade in the NFC driver's seat? Did fans finally concede that Simms had the goods, or did it take winning the Super Bowl before it finally put that question to bed? Or were fans actually less jaded and cynical about things?
TL;DR the bears were very good and so were we and I thought it would come down to one of us, kind of like a 1990 feeling with Niners.
But still, things like division championship and super bowls were things that other teams enjoyed.
In 1985 the Giants proved they could go toe-to-toe with just about anybody, but they always had something go wrong like a flukey turnover that would bite them in the ass (the Browns game and both Cowboy games come immediately to mine).
Going into 1986 the Giants peaks were Wild card wins. The playoff run (both games at home that I was fortunate to attend) and Super Bowl XXI were rarefied air and it was like "pinch me, I must be dreaming".
Generally, seasons leading up to 1986 and leading up to 2007 had the same questions. Was the QB good enough to get to the Super Bowl?
The questions are louder today. Can Jones even get the Giants to the playoffs again? Jones or someone needs to show us he can get the Giants to the playoffs before anyone but the most crazed fan can be optimistic about being a Super Bowl team.
They were the pick of a few pundits before the season to go to the Super Bowl. Inside the NFL on HBO, Nick Buoniconti actually picked the matchup before the season, but he had Denver winning it.
I remember after the Week 1 loss at Dallas, I was thinking all that hope for nothing..but I was around 12/13 at the time, so I'll give myself a pass, lol.
Come on, now. That game wasn't close.
They were the pick of a few pundits before the season to go to the Super Bowl. Inside the NFL on HBO, Nick Buoniconti actually picked the matchup before the season, but he had Denver winning it.
Right. Paul Zimmerman called the Giants-Broncos Super Bowl in the SI preview issue that September, with the Giants winning. Optimism was high.
In comment 16534128 Darwinian said:
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I thought we'd be great. I still think we win in Chicago in 1985 if we didn't fumble when were driving early in that game.
Come on, now. That game wasn't close.
They were 8-8 in 06 after falling apart down the stretch. Tiki had carried the offense for years and just retired. Strahan was contemplating retirement. Eli seemed to be a mistake prone QB who was average at best. The secondary was littered with question marks..
Only two losses all year, and dominant on D. The O was pretty much ground and pound with a TE that was not only a great blocker but a man amongst boys.
I gave 17 points and got 3 to one from a coworker, he couldn't believe he was getting such a deal.
Broke his balls for years.
Haven’t felt that way in quite a while.
Back then, we knew the Giants were gonna kick some ass.
Today there’s a Giants media universe blowing sunshine up our ass.
LT was the best player in the league. The overall defense was top shelf from front to back.
Simms had proved himself, and the offense wasn't bad, with Joe Morris arguably the best RB in the league at the time with a very good OL.
Specials were solid with good kickers and a head coach who really understood the value of STs.
The thing about the '86 season was that for a lot of it, the Giants seemed shaky, especially on offense. There was real concern about what would happen when they faced the Bears in the playoffs. But the league was already figuring out the Bears and they were already declining.
I don't think the Giants have been favored that way since, with the possible exception of 2008.
Simms had shown he was a QB you could win with in 1984 and 1985. He took another step in the SB against the Broncos that cemented him as a very good QB.
The Giants had been on the upswing for a few years so expectations were building over the prior few years. Message boards tend to bring out more opinions, but even those who thought they would never see the Giants win a Superbowl knew the team was good.
Simms said it. He said they thought the Giants were intense and after the 21-0 loss to the Bears, said they realized they had to take it to up a notch (to 11!).
Both years we were knocked out of the playoffs by the eventual SB Champ, so it was easy to believe.
Exactly right. The 2nd best team in the NFL that season was Washington - who beat the Bears in Chicago.
This. IF the 86 Bears were that good, they wouldn't have lost at home to Washington.
I did think we played OK against Chicago in 1985, or at least could hang with them. Unforced errors were the reason we lost.
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They were the pick of a few pundits before the season to go to the Super Bowl. Inside the NFL on HBO, Nick Buoniconti actually picked the matchup before the season, but he had Denver winning it.
Right. Paul Zimmerman called the Giants-Broncos Super Bowl in the SI preview issue that September, with the Giants winning. Optimism was high.
That's right, I have that preview SI somewhere where Dr. Z picked it too.
There roster didn't have all-pros at every position, shoot they had Herb Welch at FS by the end of the year. McConkey a late season pick up; injuries were a factor.
Their front 7 though, was as good or better than any team. They smoked the Packers in the last game of the season, and after destroying the 49'ers in the playoffs, I had no doubts. I had a hundred timer on them in the Super Bowl.
Even the Super Bowl wasnt a start to finish win,we trailed at halftime.
1986 was the best season the Giants ever had.
The biggest issue really was how good the NFC was back then, and could the Giants navigate through everybody to reach the Super Bowl. A game where the NFC dominated in the 1980s and early 1990s so you just had to get there.
Seriously asking, not picking an argument. LT was absolutely the best player on defense of all time and he proved it certainly in 1986-but my question is did you all feel like he was still the best, were there questions about him? Interesting topic
This is how I felt. I was 26 yard old and never thought we'd be good enough to win a SB. He'll they hardly MADE the playoffs let alone won a playoff game since I started watching with my Dad in 1970. But then 4th and 17 happened. And they made it look like a routine play. That's when I let belief creep in. Then week 13, the comeback against the 49ers on Monday night. The Giants never did that. Finally, when they smoked the 9ers 49-3 in the division round,I was pretty confident. Still, in the back of my mind, I was saying " but it's the Giants....they never win."
exactly. in fact I remember LT being really nervous about playing WAS, 1) they were great and 2) that he thought it was near impossible to beat a team like that 3 times in 1 year.
So optimism was high.
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14-2, yeah, but against a laughably weak schedule - the NFC Central was incredibly bad that year. They turned the ball over at an astonishing rate. Had they had to come into the Meadowlands in January 1987, they would have been smoked.
exactly. in fact I remember LT being really nervous about playing WAS, 1) they were great and 2) that he thought it was near impossible to beat a team like that 3 times in 1 year.
I don't argue with the fact that we would have beaten the Bears in 1986, but to say it would have been a cake walk is a little revisionist-- we got smoked by them in the first game of 87 before the strike. Back then teams did not change much from year to year. The Bears were also the number one seed in 1988. The Bears while not nearly as dominant as 85, was still a good team and there run of being one was far from over. Does that show we would have lost at home--absolutely not (I think we would have won), but the Bears were a good team and could have won and to say otherwise is a bit revisionist.
What I would say is that we were kind of like the 10-1 Eagles this year that year--we won a lot of close games and the offense had struggled many times that year (we had two losses). Then we took the exact opposite turn--instead of having a collapse, we went into Washington and blew them out of the building and were just on a different level after that game. So, yes I do think we were the best team and would have won but I think that is more than us as opposed to the Bears not being that good anymore.
Yeah, but who were those three games against? The Browns, Vikings and Rams - three quality teams, two of which made the playoffs. The Bears inflated their stats against inferior competition because they played in a weak division. the Lions, Packers and Buccaneers were the dregs of the NFL.
cover
https://i.imgur.com/PjGhp9Q.jpeg
Joe Morris vs 49ers 1985 NFC Wild Card
https://i.imgur.com/lyZGbxv.jpeg
Dr. Z's rankings
https://i.imgur.com/cio6Mau.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/QRoG2Cw.jpeg
Giants & Bears 1 & 2 in NFC
https://i.imgur.com/KMHqQTR.jpeg
Zeke Mowatt & Mark Bavaro
https://i.imgur.com/sHnHRpK.jpeg
What I would say is that we were kind of like the 10-1 Eagles this year that year--we won a lot of close games and the offense had struggled many times that year (we had two losses). Then we took the exact opposite turn--instead of having a collapse, we went into Washington and blew them out of the building and were just on a different level after that game. So, yes I do think we were the best team and would have won but I think that is more than us as opposed to the Bears not being that good anymore.
The Bears offense flat out stunk, even with McMahon (who was always overrated anyway). The Giants would have shut their asses out, same as they did to a far better Redskins offense. Maybe the Giants offense wouldn't have scored much on the Bears' defense, but the Bears wouldn't have been able to even move the ball much.
In their last ten games, including the playoff loss to Washington, the Bears turned the ball over 35 times. Seriously.
There is no way that team is scoring on the Giants in Giants Stadium in January 1987.
Regarding the opener the next season, I have heard multiple Giants, including Parcells, admit that the team slacked off the entire offseason after the title, fat and happy.
And contrary to the perception that a dominant defense was held back by a stagnant offense, the 1985 Giants did not lose any low-scoring games. The average score in the six losses was 29-26. Although Simms contributed pick-sixes against Cincinnati and Dallas, in nearly all of those losses the defense couldn't get off the field on critical second-half drives.
And contrary to the perception that a dominant defense was held back by a stagnant offense, the 1985 Giants did not lose any low-scoring games. The average score in the six losses was 29-26. Although Simms contributed pick-sixes against Cincinnati and Dallas, in nearly all of those losses the defense couldn't get off the field on critical second-half drives.
Like the Browns game. After Marty Schottenheimer pulled Bernie Kosar for Gary Danielson in the third quarter the Giants defense was helpless.
It was interesting to reread the Dr.Z evaluation on the Giants where he mentioned that the Giants covered for him on the field in 1985, intimating that even though he had the sacks on the stat sheet (13), he wasn't LT the Superman the year before and had a lot to prove in 1986 after going to rehab during the offseason.
What a special year that was for this Mets/Giants fan. I waited my whole life for 1986.
When the 1986 season started there was no doubt that the Giants were good enough to be a playoff team for the 3rd straight year. They were an ascending team with more than a half dozen future Giants Ring of Honor players in their primes. But the Giants had never seriously contended for the Super Bowl. There was hope but it was based on building on 1984 and 1985 which ended with playoff losses to much better teams that became Super Bowl winners in those seasons.
Phil Simms was 31 years old in 1986 coming off a Pro Bowl season in 1985 and had won 2 playoff games. Eli was 26 in 2007 had played poorly in and lost 2 playoff games. Even with the injuries and the typical Giants fan base "hating" on their starting QB Simms was a much more established NFL QB.
In my opinion the Giants most important and greatest regular season win of the Super Bowl era was in Washington week 14, December 7, 1986. The Giants did not blow out the Redskins that day. They won the game 24-14. Washington actually out gained them and held the ball longer than the Giants did. That happened more times than most younger Giants fans would think considering the level of reverence those of us who were lucky enough to be there for that season have for the 1986 team.
The Giants defense forced 7 turnovers that day. 6 interceptions. Lawrence Taylor was the NFL MVP in 1986. LT played one of his greatest games that day. He beat HOF LT Joe Jacoby around the end early in the game and blasted Jay Schroeder which set the tone for the rest of the day. That was also the game that made Brad Benson famous. He handled All Pro Dexter Manley very well that day, pretty much one on one, while playing with an almost season long cut on bridge of his nose that kept opening up during the game and providing material for John Madden to do his thing.
I don't want anyone to think that 1986 wasn't the most magical Giants season of my lifetime. It was by far. The Giants played 12 games in Giants Stadium in 1986. 2 pre season games, 8 regular season games, 2 playoff games. Their home record was 12-0 in 1986. Their 2nd and last loss was in Seattle week 7.
This what followed that game.
A Monday Night football home win vs Washington while the Mets were winning the World Series at Shea the same night. At the stadium we were following and cheering for both games. The Giants came into that game tied with Dallas, 1 game behind Washington for the NFC East lead. When the game ended there was a 3 team tie for 1st place. It was a unique night. Washington won their next 5 games in a row.
Then came two pretty much evenly played 17-14 wins over Dallas at home and Philadelphia on the road. Carl Banks knocked Danny White out of the Dallas game with a broken wrist on a brutal sack. The Dallas win put the Giants and Washington a game ahead of the Cowboys. The Philadelphia win kept pace with Washington at 8-2.
The three games that followed the win in Philadelphia all had plays that have been named in Giants history. 4th and 17 in Minnesota, The George Martin interception at home vs Denver. The Bavaro catch in San Francisco. Each game the Giants were doing great, iconic things that we had only seen other teams do to them since Super Bowl I.
December 7, 1986 the 11-2 NY Giants at the 11-2 Washington Redskins for first place in the NFC East. After the Giants beat them and Banks ended Danny White's season in week 9 Dallas lost 6 out of their last 7 games. Washington had won 5 games in a row. The Giants had won 6 games in a row.
Washington had been to 2 Super Bowls and won 1 and would win another the following season in 1987. By comparison the Giants 11 wins were their most of the Super Bowl era with 3 games left in the 1986 season. The year before they won 10 games. It was their first double digit winning season of the Super Bowl Era. The Giants were in unknown, uncharted territory.
I wasn't at that game. I watched it on my state of the art 26" 4:3 standard definition TV with some friends. But I'll never forget it. It was billed as the NFC East championship game and IMO it turned out to be that and more. I think that win set the stage for the Giants first 2 Super Bowl wins. Winning the NFC East was the last regular season hurdle for the Giants.
At that point with a 12-2 record in 1st place, for the first time ever, winning the Super Bowl felt like a real possibility even for the most pessimistic Giants fans.
I remember back then my Mom pestering my father for a big new TV and he always put her off, but the day before he and I went to PC Richard in Smithtown and brought home a for those days huge 27" Sony Trinitron console that weighed a ton LOL. We brought it home ourselves so we could have it for the game. The "oh sure now we get new TV" chorus from my mom and sister went on for weeks.
The other thing is that the game was played on Sunday at 1:00PM. No night game or flex. Good times.
The SI cover that week was Mark Bavaro with the headline "REAL GIANTS". I had that cover on the wall of my bedroom up through high school, along with a clipping of a picture from the Richmond Times Dispatch the Monday after the game of LT hitting Jay Schroeder. That game was so big.
I also remember rumors in 89' that Parcells believed THAT team was going all the way.
Rose-colored glasses say THAT was the best period in modern history to be a Giant fan - NFC East was SO competitive, and the Giants were a top 5 team for nearly a decade straight.