It’s mind boggling the short fuses and low level of loyalty Giant fans have now.
Then again, maybe it’s nothing new.
Many people wanted Phil Simms gone after 1981 because he was injury prone. Many people wanted Eli gone after the 4 interception Darren Sharper game.
So, when it comes to “the base” evaluating Giant QBs?
Maybe Giant fans aren’t as football intelligent as they think they are.
I was banging my steering wheel today listening to a NY sports talk radio
guy complaining and ranting about how he can’t believe in the team while DJ is QB. He said “While he had some success 2 years ago, last year was a disaster.”
Yes, it was a disaster:
1) The offensive line was beyond abysmal early on. No running lanes meant no running game and no pass protection meant
no passing game .
2) His “go to guy” Waller was washed up - hence his retirement this year.
3) He was relentlessly pummeled and was crushed from his blindside and basically suffererd whiplash.
4) He tore his ACL AND STILL TRIED TO KEEP PLAYING.
How the hell can you ignore 2022 and not give Daniel the benefit of the doubt?
Look at how hard he’s worked and how he’s apparently ready for the start of training camp.
Check out this video.
1) He looks rock solid
2) He seems relaxed, focused and unaffected
3) He looks like a confident leader
You guys who want him out the door?
HAVE AT IT.
Me, personally?
I think this 27-year old NY Giants QB has the talent, drive, work ethic and mental toughness to have a super amazing season IF the offensive line just gives him just DECENT play upfront.
DJ is a star player who has had incredibly bad luck.
Don’t wish him away - GET BEHIND HIM. I can’t believe that I have to attempt to convince Giant fans to believe in their QB.
Because all of you who want him gone for someone else?
You’ll be the same people pushing the next QB out the door as well.
We’ve upgraded the offensive line.
We can only pray that Evan Neal becomes the player we thought he was.
Devin Singletary is a solid - still young - running back.
Malik has star potential and may make Hyatt a better player.
Burns is a great addition to the defense.
I could go on and on about the upside of this team.
But for once?
Can we all rally behind the guy quarterbacking our team and give him a shot?
If he plays badly? (which he won’t )
Then fine, we move on.
Let’s just start the season collectively as Giants fans and pull for our QB to have a breakout season.
It’s not like he’s Ryan f****** Leaf.
Leader of the team - (
New Window )
& this is why other fans of other teams laugh at us.
Does he have some good attributes? yes.
Is he trigger shy, hold the ball too long, and have a slow processor? i believe so.
Has he worked on his fumbling issues? yes.
Should he be an unchallenged starter? No absolutely not.
Was it smart to draft nabers over qb available to them? yes, probably based on what nabers brings to the offense.
should they look at drafting a qb even if daniel lights it up this year? Yes. though lighting it up will likely be his 2019 numbers with less fumbles i don’t see him tossing 30 tds anytime soon.
Ralph, this town chased patrick ewing out of town and what on phil simms. You won’t change nyer attitude on qb of giants.
DJ has never been a "star" player at any level of football and I would argue that getting picked 6 overall by one of the oldest, most stable NFL franchises and paid over $140M is more than enough "luck" for someone who has shown so little to deserve it.
I am a NY Giants fan, not a Daniel Jones fan. If he plays well and the team wins, I will cheer for him. If he plays like crap and the team loses, then I will boo him. You can go on accepting mediocrity, but why should every fan?
& again, other fanbases literally laugh @ us that we're trotting out Jones for a SIXTH straight season. I have experienced this personally.
But now, economics are a huge part of the discussion. That's THE thing.
I think.....the people who think he is garbage....and you know who you are....are not very knowledgeable.....almost ridiculous, when they claim every QB in draft is Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, now
At 40 million, the Giants can find a replacement in the draft for much cheaper.
Jones must step up this year and win....or he will be gone.
& this is why other fans of other teams laugh at us.
Would it be fair for me to call you unintelligent after your myriad predictions things will go well have been largely wrong for the better part of the last decade?
Listen, it isn’t personal. He’s just not that good. It is what it is. But yet some on this site refuse to accept it and make absurd claims like Ralph C.
Why not give him 6 years like you’re giving jones?
We can and should do better
But I will root like crazy for him to succeed this year.
I think.....the people who think he is garbage....and you know who you are....are not very knowledgeable.....almost ridiculous, when they claim every QB in draft is Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, now
At 40 million, the Giants can find a replacement in the draft for much cheaper.
Jones must step up this year and win....or he will be gone.
No one claims that every QB is Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers. What they claim is that unless you have Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers (or a QB of that caliber), it's insane to stop even taking swings at the QB position.
The last QB the Giants drafted, in ANY round, was Daniel Jones. That was six years ago, and pretty much every NFL team has drafted a QB since then, many of whom have drafted multiple QBs since then.
If Daniel Jones played any other position, fans would unanimously be pleading for the team to at least draft someone to challenge him as the incumbent. Many pro-DJ fans were clamoring for Joe Alt this past draft, ready to either give up on Neal or at least push him with another premium prospect. That was after two years, but those same fans have no problem with DJ getting six years with no challenger drafted by the team.
And then we get gaslit from the OP with "DJ is a star with bad luck." F*ck that. Stop pissing on our legs and telling us it's raining.
…
& this is why other fans of other teams laugh at us.
Nope. Other fan bases laugh at our fan base because it it a disloyal, piece of $hit, old fat guy fanbase that want to win the Superbowl every year or they are miserable.
I think.....the people who think he is garbage....and you know who you are....are not very knowledgeable.....almost ridiculous, when they claim every QB in draft is Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, now
At 40 million, the Giants can find a replacement in the draft for much cheaper.
Jones must step up this year and win....or he will be gone.
No one ever said he was a top 5 QB. You realize there are only 5 of those, right? LOL
Hopefully those issues are improved and DJ can maximize the talent he is working with. They also need much better coaching this season.
If it doesn't work out this season, I expect big changes and not just at QB.
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LOL.
& this is why other fans of other teams laugh at us.
Nope. Other fan bases laugh at our fan base because it it a disloyal, piece of $hit, old fat guy fanbase that want to win the Superbowl every year or they are miserable.
I'm pretty sure that's not it.
we drafted him because of pedigree and potential.
SIX YEARS later he hasn’t lived up to it. not even close!
if you still believe at this point, you are not an intelligent football fan. you are hoping to be right.
The cap went way up. DJ’s contract isn’t holding the team back from doing anything.
we drafted him because of pedigree and potential.
SIX YEARS later he hasn’t lived up to it. not even close!
if you still believe at this point, you are not an intelligent football fan. you are hoping to be right.
I'm pretty sure Ralph started a post around Halloween insisting the Giants would still make the playoffs. I'm not kidding.
& again, other fanbases literally laugh @ us that we're trotting out Jones for a SIXTH straight season. I have experienced this personally.
It’s one of or a combination of a few things. Liking the player/person, wanting to be loyal to players of their team and supporting him, not wanting to admit defeat, and/or trolling. I don’t think theirs a Daniel Jones cult, it’s just people firing off on a message board for whatever reason.
I laugh at other teams for various reasons, even good teams. I don’t think that means anything. It’s not middle school.
Give Patrick Mahomes 6 Yearz of what Daniel experienced last year and see what you get. No QB is performing well in those types of circumstances. I would think that’s understood by everyone, but here we are, and there are still people here trying to use last year against him.
Be careful what you wish for!
Now, I do think that he gets a lot of unwarranted hate. These media-created lists that have him as the worst starting QB in the league are just outright wrong. His price tag also opens him up to criticism.
On his best day, he is a mediocre processor that is hesitant to take deep shots but can impact a game with his legs. The injury history (especially the neck) is the most worrisome.
Jones can win some games. I think the goal is a QB that can lift the team around him and Jones just isn't there.
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Jones is officially the -former- quarterback of the New York Giants will be one of celebration
Be careful what you wish for!
Nah, I'm quite confident wishing for another quarterback will work out. Unlike those who wished to give Jones that contract
With Daniel the answer is no.
Because of that you keep looking until you find a QB where the answer is yes.
If that is Daniel Jones or someone else, it doesn't matter. What we've had is not good enough, that is undeniable.
Listen, it isn’t personal. He’s just not that good. It is what it is. But yet some on this site refuse to accept it and make absurd claims like Ralph C.
That said, I couldn't care less what random people that I don't know think of the Giants.
Zero fucks.
Don't let them influence you. (they are doing just that if your care what they think)
Control what you can, don't stress what you cannot.
At this point, DJ is QB1 for the Giants.
What I "think" will happen doesn't matter. What matters is what I hope will happen at 1PM on Sunday's in the fall. That is because that's all we get.
Life is about mindset. Football is life.
So, with that in mind, I am rooting for him to be QB1 in the NFCE.
If the Eagles were in the exact same situation with the record over the last decade, the constant HC and staff turnover and paying a Daniel Jones equivalent 40 million dollars, every single Giants fan would be laughing
in his best season he threw 15 touchdown passes.
in the 2024 version of the NFL, he’s a bottom 5 - 10 QB that we are paying like a top 10 QB.
Starts 15 games
Passing yards - 3100
Passing TDs - 26
Completion percentage - 66%
Rushing yards - 350
Rushing TDs - 3
Team Record - 7-8
If Jones did that, it would be his most productive year and many on this board would have their chests puffed out declaring they were right and Jones is awesome. If Jones does that, everyone would expect him back and there would be some on here speculating on his extension. If Jones did that, there would be many on here calling him a top 10 QB.
That was the stat line that got Russel Wilson cut, with the Broncos taking a historic 85 million in dead cap. This year, which would make many Jones truthers ecstatic, was so bad to the Broncos that they would rather fuck their cap for 2 years than continue on with that player
People here need to raise their standards
I disagree it's unlikely he'll be a star (nor do I think it likely), depending how you define star. I'm yet to see a QB labeled a star or even good without playmaking help. He's in the muddled middle - touching upper tier of the middle in 22; disaster for 4 games 23. Time for the rubber match, seemingly with some weapons and protection this time.
Assuming he plays 15+ games, I predict top 10 passing numbers this season that put the current Jones media narrative to rest. BBI? Jones could win 3 SBs and 9 MVPs and there are a dozen or two BBIers who'd still say he's not a starter quality QB.
So now we see.
It's hard to find a modern day QB that has as many starts as he does with as little counting stats as he does.
I can not think of a modern day QB that has had as long a leash as the Giants have given DJ.
It doesn't make a whole lot sense.
It's hard to find a modern day QB that has as many starts as he does with as little counting stats as he does.
I can not think of a modern day QB that has had as long a leash as the Giants have given DJ.
It doesn't make a whole lot sense.
This may end up as the stupidest BBI post of all time (which says alot)
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Who cares. Stay off of twitter.
If the Eagles were in the exact same situation with the record over the last decade, the constant HC and staff turnover and paying a Daniel Jones equivalent 40 million dollars, every single Giants fan would be laughing
And then what happens? lol, do you get angry and stomp your feet at being laughed at for a sports team you root for? We laugh at my friend who’s a Jets fan, they laugh back at me for being a Giants fan, and we laugh at my friends who are Patriot fans the last few seasons. And then we laugh and nothing bad happens.
Laughed at? lol.
Blind loyalty is not an indicator of advanced intelligence.
Listen, it isn’t personal. He’s just not that good. It is what it is. But yet some on this site refuse to accept it and make absurd claims like Ralph C.
You have a non Giants fan, right here on this forum, so he can communicate with me, if he'd like. He'll get cold hard facts, not emotional biases.
Jones has been simply pathetic, for five long years, which is not something to laugh about. Five wins in five years against .500+ teams. Prime Dime is what, something like 1 for 12 in marquee games?
The single most important game of the year is the last game of a team's season, not counting non-playoff teams. 2022 season, Giants @ Philly, 28-0 at half time, 38-7 final. Jones passing - 15/27, 135 yards, 5.0 yards per attempt, 0 TDs, 1 INT, rushing - 6 for 24, 4.0 yards per carry, 0 TDs.
Losing 28-0 at half time sums up Jones career, as it was the most important game of his career.
As a non Giants fan, I neither support Jones, nor do want him gone. He finally needs to prove whether he's got what it takes or not, with no more excuses.
Let’s just start the season collectively as Giants fans and pull for our QB to have a breakout season.
Is this too much to ask? I'm with you Ralph!
People here need to raise their standards
I'd bet that all of the "people here" want a SB victory. Seems pretty lofty to me.
I have high expectations. I also have the common sense to recognize that my "standards" only matter to me.
That damning something that I cannot control only serves to make me look a fool and adds frustration, anger and negativity to my life.
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Who cares. Stay off of twitter.
If the Eagles were in the exact same situation with the record over the last decade, the constant HC and staff turnover and paying a Daniel Jones equivalent 40 million dollars, every single Giants fan would be laughing
I'm not saying they don't laugh. I'm saying have thicker skin.
Blind loyalty is not an indicator of advanced intelligence.
+1.
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In comment 16535053 UberAlias said:
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Who cares. Stay off of twitter.
If the Eagles were in the exact same situation with the record over the last decade, the constant HC and staff turnover and paying a Daniel Jones equivalent 40 million dollars, every single Giants fan would be laughing
And then what happens? lol, do you get angry and stomp your feet at being laughed at for a sports team you root for? We laugh at my friend who’s a Jets fan, they laugh back at me for being a Giants fan, and we laugh at my friends who are Patriot fans the last few seasons. And then we laugh and nothing bad happens.
Laughed at? lol.
No, I don't get angry and stomp my feet since they're right that the Giants are a laughing stock. That's my point, any other team in our situation we'd be deriding, but because it's our team in this situation some try to excuse it away
Here's a quote on the Giants' QB situation from someone who was once objective, but is for good reason no longer able to speak freely on the subject...
Malik Nabers on the Giants QB situation in March - ( New Window )
As I said on the LSU WR thread, Nabers, Bricillo and an improved OL should make a HUGE difference.
I know a lot of people said "no more excuses" going into last year. Then AT gets hurt early in the first game and ended up missing the majority of time DJ played, the OL totally regressed from '22 (due to multiple injuries + possibly the loss of asst OL coach Sparano Jr.), Wan'Dale missed the first couple games coming back from an ACL, Waller was a shell of his former self, Hyatt was a 3rd rd rookie, etc. (not to mention the defense totally sucked the first 5 games of the season). All crap out of DJ's control.
All QBs play better behind a better OL and there are many examples of QBs playing better when a stud WR is added to their roster.
This is the yr DJ shows either the "excuses" were legit or it's time to move on next yr. I was ready for a change on draft night (the neck concerns me), but now I'm rooting like heck for him and the team! Let's go!
It's hard to find a modern day QB that has as many starts as he does with as little counting stats as he does.
I can not think of a modern day QB that has had as long a leash as the Giants have given DJ.
It doesn't make a whole lot sense.
Danny Kanell, Dave Brown... are you kidding me?
It's hard to find a modern day QB that has as many starts as he does with as little counting stats as he does.
I can not think of a modern day QB that has had as long a leash as the Giants have given DJ.
It doesn't make a whole lot sense.
The last QB as bad and unaccomplished as Jones to get 6 straight years as a starter for the same team is Jake Plummer. In the past 20+ years, Daniel stands alone
& this is why other fans of other teams laugh at us.
come on everyone. You know QB’s always make that leap in year 6!
Jones will be here for one more year barring a miracle. I feel like in the majority of the OTA “highlights” it was DeVito throwing the ball.
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of all time.... like, legitimately...given a minimum number of starts at QB (like qualifying for the MLB BA AVG title).
It's hard to find a modern day QB that has as many starts as he does with as little counting stats as he does.
I can not think of a modern day QB that has had as long a leash as the Giants have given DJ.
It doesn't make a whole lot sense.
Danny Kanell, Dave Brown... are you kidding me?
Those QB’s didn’t get 6 years to prove themselves.
Maybe Giant fans aren’t as football intelligent as they think they are.
Have you considered the possibility that the fans who share your opinion are the ones who are wrong in this case?
A team with Daniel Jones on it has never won 10-11 games in the NFL or college.
Here's a quote on the Giants' QB situation from someone who was once objective, but is for good reason no longer able to speak freely on the subject...
Quote:
“They’re gonna wanna get me the ball so I’m sure they’re gonna wanna get a QB that can do that”
Malik Nabers on the Giants QB situation in March - ( New Window )
You keep eating it, ownership will happily keep feeding it.
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To repost all of the DJ hate when he wins 10-11 games this year. FU haters!
A team with Daniel Jones on it has never won 10-11 games in the NFL or college.
Dave Brown started 47 games for the NYG.
Going into the season DJ will have already started 59 games.
My point is that the Giants moved on from all these guys because they weren't good - in that regard you are correct...I'm not sure how you don't put DJ in their class at this point.
I'd also argue that there's nothing modern day about either one of those guys - a lot has changed since those guys were playing in the league a quarter century ago.
You keep eating it, ownership will happily keep feeding it.
Trust me, if they win 7-8 games and Jones is semi-competent, he'll be the starter in 2025. After all, his cap hit for that season will "only" be $41 million (down from $47 million this year).
You aren't making the argument you think you are making. You are underscoring why it is hard for many to believe he has a future in this league as a starter because he can't stay on the field.
For all of Jones' physical abilities, availability is absolutely a negative.
I take it as me wanting my team to be good.
We're in the situation that we're in, he's going to start the season. Maybe he'll be great, maybe he'll be terrible.
Maybe he'll be just average, which would prob be the worst case scenario
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To repost all of the DJ hate when he wins 10-11 games this year. FU haters!
A team with Daniel Jones on it has never won 10-11 games in the NFL or college.
Bad memory bruh. Two years ago he won 10 games. 9 regular season and a playoff game....
You keep eating it, ownership will happily keep feeding it.
He's had 1 mediocre season out of 5.
Right now, he would qualify as "stinks".
I still don’t get the laughing thing, I laugh at the Bills and they have Josh Allen. It’s meaningless.
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and are anchored to a mediocre QB instead.
You keep eating it, ownership will happily keep feeding it.
Trust me, if they win 7-8 games and Jones is semi-competent, he'll be the starter in 2025. After all, his cap hit for that season will "only" be $41 million (down from $47 million this year).
And I think this is the root of the "DH hate" as some of our more extreme posters like to refer to it. People are not mad at Jones for being a mediocre QB. They are mad at the front office who keeps parading him out there on a magic carpet of excuses.
Jones is who he is and he is trying his best to win games. It isn't fault that the front office can't or won't make hard decisions about players they personally like.
It blows my mind how much that is glossed over in Giants circles. What exactly do we expect to happen the next big shot he takes above the shoulders?
The Jones era should have ended this offseason.
Tommy DeVito is the most interesting QB on this roster as far as potential at this point. Still a long shot but at least you can see some swagger and ability. Lock stinks as well.
BUT I refuse to just ignore the fact that, despite the Giants handing him the reigns completely for 6 years now, he has been largely bad for most of his career.
He's just not good...as much as I or any one in the front office wants him to be.
Jones criticism is about Daboll, Schoen, and Mara. They opted to pay this stiff and have not tried to improve on him. That's on them.
They had better win those 10-11 games this year. Anything less and they should all get destroyed.
It blows my mind how much that is glossed over in Giants circles. What exactly do we expect to happen the next big shot he takes above the shoulders?
The Jones era should have ended this offseason.
Tommy DeVito is the most interesting QB on this roster as far as potential at this point. Still a long shot but at least you can see some swagger and ability. Lock stinks as well.
Very much agree with this. I honestly think many (including myself) gloss over the injuries because his play isn’t great even when healthy. The injury history is just throwing more gasoline on an already raging fire.
Starts 15 games
Passing yards - 3100
Passing TDs - 26
Completion percentage - 66%
Rushing yards - 350
Rushing TDs - 3
Team Record - 7-8
If Jones did that, it would be his most productive year and many on this board would have their chests puffed out declaring they were right and Jones is awesome. If Jones does that, everyone would expect him back and there would be some on here speculating on his extension. If Jones did that, there would be many on here calling him a top 10 QB.
That was the stat line that got Russel Wilson cut, with the Broncos taking a historic 85 million in dead cap. This year, which would make many Jones truthers ecstatic, was so bad to the Broncos that they would rather fuck their cap for 2 years than continue on with that player
People here need to raise their standards
Mara would NEVER take a swing of that magnitude.
It would say 'We've made a big mistake".
The NY football Giants organization is too "Classy"...
Jones criticism is about Daboll, Schoen, and Mara. They opted to pay this stiff and have not tried to improve on him. That's on them.
They had better win those 10-11 games this year. Anything less and they should all get destroyed.
I thought a lot about this after the draft...and I'm with you now.
I had previously thought they did OK with the contract given the year that DJ had previously AND the fact that they gave themselves an out. I felt that they were backed into a corner given the situation they were in following the 2022 season.
With the NYG passing entirely on the QB position this offseason - they all hitched their wagon to DJ's falling star which, I think, should be their demise.
AND imagine if that happens - DJ will have done in Shurmur, Judge and Daboll. I mean any QB that comes into the league and costs his coach a career - it's gotta become known as a DJ...right????
It’s honestly kind of unfair that people have had lofty expectations for him. He didn’t draft himself at 6 overall. I blame team management for the whole situation. DG and Schoen are both accountable.
That's not the goal for any pro QB. The goal is much higher than that.
Why did Josh Allen play at Wyoming? A lot of times NFL QB's play at mediocre schools. The point is they don't have great talent level around them as a team.
But he might succeed with a strong WR crew and a hopefully serviceable line.
I was citing that around here at the end of 2019 when it was clear there was an issue with Jones.
No one wanted to hear it.
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To repost all of the DJ hate when he wins 10-11 games this year. FU haters!
That's not the goal for any pro QB. The goal is much higher than that.
You saw it in 2022. The bar has been lowered for Jones to the point where he is only compared to himself. If he throws 3 TDs in any single game this year - even if the Giants lose it to fall to 2-6 - there will be posts about how good Jones is and how the team is failing him again.
I think it is the same frame of reference the front office uses. Improvement from terrible to below average is celebrated as progress.
That is the baseline and expectation when paying your QB 20% of the salary cap.
But I just wish management and the coaching staff this is the a full on prove it year for Jones. Complete open QB competition and no excuses. Go compete for the division and put up 30TDs with 3K yards. Otherwise we need a new QB.
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In comment 16535095 4xchamps said:
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To repost all of the DJ hate when he wins 10-11 games this year. FU haters!
That's not the goal for any pro QB. The goal is much higher than that.
You saw it in 2022. The bar has been lowered for Jones to the point where he is only compared to himself. If he throws 3 TDs in any single game this year - even if the Giants lose it to fall to 2-6 - there will be posts about how good Jones is and how the team is failing him again.
I think it is the same frame of reference the front office uses. Improvement from terrible to below average is celebrated as progress.
You are absolutely right - years from now they'll have college courses in Sports Psychology or Sport Management about Confirmation Bias in sports with DJ being the primary case study in the chapter.
If he is not, then next year the Giants will need to find a new QB. It’s really that simple.
Oddly enough, he's actually NEVER had a 3 TD throwing game. Sure, he's had 4 or 5, but never exactly 3, which is very weird.
If he is not, then next year the Giants will need to find a new QB. It’s really that simple.
Problem is I think if he has an average season, he's getting a 7th season next year.
I have changed that attitude after seeing him recover as well as he has, and he has faced the endless media questions with nothing but class and tact.
I really want DJ to shine this up-coming season, and I want his playing to silence the nay-sayers throughout the NFCE!
I am over-the-moon happy that Schoen acquired good veteran players to join the OL, and I hope DJ has a good relationship with the OL in front of him. I want the opposing teams think that this Giants team is the same as every recent past year, and I want the rebuilt OL to aid DJ to excel.
Daniel Jones is a classy guy, and he's a good role model for younger players to emulate, because most QB's who've dealt with what DJ has encountered would have given up long ago.
I just wish he'd grow the beard back.
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And why did he play for Duke? Right, because he wasn't good enough in high school to get any D-I offers so he had to walk on at Duke.
Why did Josh Allen play at Wyoming? A lot of times NFL QB's play at mediocre schools. The point is they don't have great talent level around them as a team.
Josh Allen played at Wyoming because he was an extremely raw specimen who didn't get a lot of exposure because of where he grew up.
Everything a QB can do, Allen does better than Jones, and Jones is the one who got high-level QB coaching from the time he was in high school.
But that-in all reality-isn’t going to happen. That doesn’t mean he’s a bad dude or whatever. It just means he’s not a franchise QB & we should all want one.
Daniel Jones has had a blessed life. People shouldn’t feel sorry for him.
But AGAIN...
He's had three serious injuries and is probably one neck injury away from retirement. (People also forget he missed games in 2019 and 2020 with lesser injuries too).
He had a rookie season filled with good and bad. His next two years were bad. His 2022 was arguably his best, but it wasn't that good. They had to basically dumb down the offense for him. We know what happened to him last year and there wasn't a noticeable difference between him and Taylor and DeVito (the latter being particularly damning).
These are all facts, despite what his clingers argue.
He's out of excuses so he had better stay healthy and have a good year.
He was never outplayed by Devito and Tyrod. If Tyrod was so great, the Giants wouldn't have let him go. Also, who was Jones throwing to in 2022? Richie James? You can't make chicken salas out of chicken shit. The only teams I can think of off the top of my head who won SB's with mediocre WR's was Tom Brady and the Patriots in 03' and 04' and the Eagles in '17, but they had an elite TE in Ertz. You need a legit, great receiver in this league to be successful, period. Now Jones has one in Nabers.
If Jones stays healthy he'll regain his crown as king of the mid tier quarterbacks.
If the breaks go their way they'll win 8/9 or so games and compete for a wildcard. If the breaks don't they'll win 6/7 and pick outside of the top 5.
The 40M AAV Jones makes will be around 15th among quarterbacks, and the 30M in new cash he's owed next year will be low enough to trigger the "what other choice do they have?" refrain.
The Giants won't be in the same stratosphere as the teams legitimately competing for a title, but it will be enough to run it all back again.
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Criticism from other areas can be used as an objective indicator of what Jones is.
Here's a quote on the Giants' QB situation from someone who was once objective, but is for good reason no longer able to speak freely on the subject...
Quote:
“They’re gonna wanna get me the ball so I’m sure they’re gonna wanna get a QB that can do that”
Malik Nabers on the Giants QB situation in March - ( New Window )
Holy taking the quote out of context Batman. Have you ever heard of a leading question? That would be an example of one. The reporter implied that the Giants were probably going in a different direction at QB, and Nabers responding to the question as if that were going to be the case. That didn't happen. Nothing to see there.
A leading question is one that essentially gives the answer in the question and leads to the answer desired (typically yes/no) instead of an open-ended answer.
Hard to say this was actually a leading question, per se.
The fact that this is even a debate is damning in itself.
Games with more than 2 TD passes since 2019
UDFA Tommy DeVito: 1 (6 starts)
#6 overall pick Daniel Jones: 0 (47 starts)
The fact that this is even a debate is damning in itself.
The is a difference between "no discernible difference" and outplaying. And the reason I believe there was little discernable difference is because the offensive line was playing significantly worse in the early part of the season when Jones playing, as compared to later in when Tyrod and Devito were playing.
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LOL.
& this is why other fans of other teams laugh at us.
Nope. Other fan bases laugh at our fan base because it it a disloyal, piece of $hit, old fat guy fanbase that want to win the Superbowl every year or they are miserable.
I'm pretty sure when they say things like "who's your QB? lmao" it has nothing to do with a "disloyal, piece of $hit, old fat guy fanbase" but whatever helps you sleep at night in your DJ underoos, I guess.
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He was never outplayed by Devito and Tyrod.
Games with more than 2 TD passes since 2019
UDFA Tommy DeVito: 1 (6 starts)
#6 overall pick Daniel Jones: 0 (47 starts)
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read it then you will be like "oh yeah..."
I was citing that around here at the end of 2019 when it was clear there was an issue with Jones.
No one wanted to hear it.
He also liked Haskins better and said his comp was Big Ben. We've all seen DJ and don't need to re-read some scouts opinion from 5 years ago.
Also, I don't remember reading about how he'd handle being saddled with historically bad offensive lines for 95% of his time and no weapons for 100%.
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He was never outplayed by Devito and Tyrod.
Games with more than 2 TD passes since 2019
UDFA Tommy DeVito: 1 (6 starts)
#6 overall pick Daniel Jones: 0 (47 starts)
I need him to be the procuring cause of those wins as well.
Otherwise we can get the same production for much. much less.
I think.....the people who think he is garbage....and you know who you are....are not very knowledgeable.....almost ridiculous, when they claim every QB in draft is Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, now
At 40 million, the Giants can find a replacement in the draft for much cheaper.
Jones must step up this year and win....or he will be gone.
I agree he is likely between 10-20. However the way people underplay the effects of the overall roster on the Giants suckitude over the past 12 years is baffling. It's NOT just on the QB folks. The rest of the roster actually does matter, believe it or not.
Yes - the most relevant bit of data is a game from FIVE years ago. Much more germane than his last four seasons of play.
And when he doesn't, will you STFU and go away?
Of course not. Zero stakes for you. Shut up.
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By almost every statistical measure, Taylor and DeVito outplayed Jones.
The fact that this is even a debate is damning in itself.
The is a difference between "no discernible difference" and outplaying. And the reason I believe there was little discernable difference is because the offensive line was playing significantly worse in the early part of the season when Jones playing, as compared to later in when Tyrod and Devito were playing.
He doesn't get that benefit of the doubt anymore. He just doesn't. As soon as Taylor and DeVito did what they did in comparison with Jones, it was a horrific look for Jones. And I said so at the time.
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In comment 16535199 Eightshamrocks said:
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He was never outplayed by Devito and Tyrod.
Games with more than 2 TD passes since 2019
UDFA Tommy DeVito: 1 (6 starts)
#6 overall pick Daniel Jones: 0 (47 starts)
And if you included 2019 Jones had a 5 TD game. I see what you did there.
Matt Flynn threw 6 TDs in a game once.
Have higher standards.
If Jones stays healthy he'll regain his crown as king of the mid tier quarterbacks.
If the breaks go their way they'll win 8/9 or so games and compete for a wildcard. If the breaks don't they'll win 6/7 and pick outside of the top 5.
The 40M AAV Jones makes will be around 15th among quarterbacks, and the 30M in new cash he's owed next year will be low enough to trigger the "what other choice do they have?" refrain.
The Giants won't be in the same stratosphere as the teams legitimately competing for a title, but it will be enough to run it all back again.
This scenario has been obvious since they didn't draft a QB with any of their 2024 picks.
Sure, they "tried" to trade up for Drake Maye, but there's no indication they ever had a realistic chance of that happening. My guess is at the top of the organization they were thrilled at that outcome.
If we win 7 or fewer games, we'll get the excuses du jour: his supporting cast let him down, he got hurt, it's Kafka's fault...
Rinse. Repeat.
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In comment 16535213 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 16535199 Eightshamrocks said:
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He was never outplayed by Devito and Tyrod.
Games with more than 2 TD passes since 2019
UDFA Tommy DeVito: 1 (6 starts)
#6 overall pick Daniel Jones: 0 (47 starts)
And if you included 2019 Jones had a 5 TD game. I see what you did there.
Matt Flynn threw 6 TDs in a game once.
Have higher standards.
Trubisky too.
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At best, he falls between 10-20, but is dependent of having a good OL and a decent team around him.
I think.....the people who think he is garbage....and you know who you are....are not very knowledgeable.....almost ridiculous, when they claim every QB in draft is Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, now
At 40 million, the Giants can find a replacement in the draft for much cheaper.
Jones must step up this year and win....or he will be gone.
I agree he is likely between 10-20. However the way people underplay the effects of the overall roster on the Giants suckitude over the past 12 years is baffling. It's NOT just on the QB folks. The rest of the roster actually does matter, believe it or not.
And the rest of the roster continually gets rookies drafted into every position, starters are challenged by the depth chart, etc.
DJ has been completely unchallenged since being drafted. That's a problem. Let him win the job if he's so good. Stop gifting it to him.
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In comment 16535149 DC Gmen Fan said:
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read it then you will be like "oh yeah..."
I was citing that around here at the end of 2019 when it was clear there was an issue with Jones.
No one wanted to hear it.
He also liked Haskins better and said his comp was Big Ben. We've all seen DJ and don't need to re-read some scouts opinion from 5 years ago.
Also, I don't remember reading about how he'd handle being saddled with historically bad offensive lines for 95% of his time and no weapons for 100%.
No weapons? So you agree Barkley was a wasted pick?
We need that image of the "2022 Wild Card Win" banner.
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In comment 16534995 George from PA said:
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At best, he falls between 10-20, but is dependent of having a good OL and a decent team around him.
I think.....the people who think he is garbage....and you know who you are....are not very knowledgeable.....almost ridiculous, when they claim every QB in draft is Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, now
At 40 million, the Giants can find a replacement in the draft for much cheaper.
Jones must step up this year and win....or he will be gone.
I agree he is likely between 10-20. However the way people underplay the effects of the overall roster on the Giants suckitude over the past 12 years is baffling. It's NOT just on the QB folks. The rest of the roster actually does matter, believe it or not.
And the rest of the roster continually gets rookies drafted into every position, starters are challenged by the depth chart, etc.
DJ has been completely unchallenged since being drafted. That's a problem. Let him win the job if he's so good. Stop gifting it to him.
It's not even that...over the course of the past 5 years almost EVERYONE has been replaced...mainly because they were so bad...including coaches/coordinators/FO people/etc...ONLY a few remain - none matter as much as one of them.
There is a constant here to consider.
If he has all the tools and intangibles to be a champion, imagine the downward forces he must have faced along the way to make his bona fides look like a bad quarterback. And if he's so cosmically unlucky, what are the chances that luck turns and he has several good luck seasons?
If Daniel Jones is really say the modern equivalent of Phil Simms, he's got a hell of a curse on him.
"depending on other things" = "depending on how easily we can conjure excuses to keep him for 2025 and beyond."
Based on what?
Last year he was no better than the 32nd best starter. What is the argument he is 10th?
There isn't one. It's just nonsense you are typing on a message board.
Analysts all over the country are rating him bottom-3. This is why our fanbase, and our management are a laughing stock. Treating a bad QB like he's maybe the 10th best. I can easily name 27 QBs I'd rather have. And most would agree.
We need that image of the "2022 Wild Card Win" banner.
Beat that drum!! Won’t be long you’ll have your mantra established.
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In comment 16535172 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16535149 DC Gmen Fan said:
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read it then you will be like "oh yeah..."
I was citing that around here at the end of 2019 when it was clear there was an issue with Jones.
No one wanted to hear it.
He also liked Haskins better and said his comp was Big Ben. We've all seen DJ and don't need to re-read some scouts opinion from 5 years ago.
Also, I don't remember reading about how he'd handle being saddled with historically bad offensive lines for 95% of his time and no weapons for 100%.
No weapons? So you agree Barkley was a wasted pick?
For similar reasons, yes. He wasn't Barry Sanders and couldn't do it behind bad lines. He never really provided enough in the passing game as a receiver or pass protection.
I do expect him to have a couple good seasons on the Eagles where he gets to play behind a functioning OL and other weapons that will not allow defenses to stack the box and stop one guy.
Some “producing” it under multiple handles.
I do expect him to have a couple good seasons on the Eagles where he gets to play behind a functioning OL and other weapons that will not allow defenses to stack the box and stop one guy.
Was he a weapon or not?
At a certain point, you have to stop blaming the spokes and check the hub.
Some “producing” it under multiple handles.
Ok dep.
My dad is dead. Go make yourself scarce now.
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To repost all of the DJ hate when he wins 10-11 games this year. FU haters!
And when he doesn't, will you STFU and go away?
Of course not. Zero stakes for you. Shut up.
LOL Bite me!
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For similar reasons, yes. He wasn't Barry Sanders and couldn't do it behind bad lines. He never really provided enough in the passing game as a receiver or pass protection.
I do expect him to have a couple good seasons on the Eagles where he gets to play behind a functioning OL and other weapons that will not allow defenses to stack the box and stop one guy.
Was he a weapon or not?
At a certain point, you have to stop blaming the spokes and check the hub.
His question, "was he a wasted pick" I answered.
As to him being a weapon, unfortunately, I think the answer is yes, on the Eagles.
But as much as you want to ignore the horrifically bad OL they have played behind, its a fact. You can't win and be successful with what the Giants have trotted out in the trenches. Coupled with a complete lack of talent at the WR and TE positions...equals the clown show we've witnesses for the last 10+ years.
It's just dep doing the same callout of Producer as though he's not also a dupe troll himself. I should do a better job of resisting the bait, but I just don't like dep.
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In comment 16535263 dannyman3131 said:
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For similar reasons, yes. He wasn't Barry Sanders and couldn't do it behind bad lines. He never really provided enough in the passing game as a receiver or pass protection.
I do expect him to have a couple good seasons on the Eagles where he gets to play behind a functioning OL and other weapons that will not allow defenses to stack the box and stop one guy.
Was he a weapon or not?
At a certain point, you have to stop blaming the spokes and check the hub.
His question, "was he a wasted pick" I answered.
As to him being a weapon, unfortunately, I think the answer is yes, on the Eagles.
But as much as you want to ignore the horrifically bad OL they have played behind, its a fact. You can't win and be successful with what the Giants have trotted out in the trenches. Coupled with a complete lack of talent at the WR and TE positions...equals the clown show we've witnesses for the last 10+ years.
It wasn't "his" question. It was my question.
You're right, you can't win with a bad OL. You also can't win with a shitty, gunshy QB.
Which is why a lot of our fans have animosity towards better teams.
Which is why a lot of our fans have animosity towards better teams.
I'll never be inferior to anyone who can't differentiate between to and too.
Was this what you would consider an original thought:
Seems pretty rehashed to me.
We need that image of the "2022 Wild Card Win" banner.
Its insane. It would be like if Frank Ntilkina or Kevin Knox were still starting for the Knicks in their 6th seasons and hoping they improve "with better talent around them".
We have posters here ready to throw a parade for the guy if he wins 10 games in his 6th season.
Don’t sweat it Johnny. The Daniel Jones counseling services are meeting today. It’s good therapy for them. Just think of it as giving back to those in need.
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How do I let myself keep getting sucked into these dopey fucking threads. The rehashing of every point is so beyond tired. Bring the season on already. I have to say if Jones has a good year, it will be hilarious to see who slinks away. Again.
Was this what you would consider an original thought:
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I agree he is likely between 10-20. However the way people underplay the effects of the overall roster on the Giants suckitude over the past 12 years is baffling. It's NOT just on the QB folks. The rest of the roster actually does matter, believe it or not.
Seems pretty rehashed to me.
Umm Ok? I think I pointed that out when I said I let myself keep getting sucked into these same tired discussions. There is absolutely NOTHING original about these SAME TIRED FUCKING discussions. Over. And. Over. And. Over. And. Over. And. Over. And. Over. And. Over.
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...is just surreal. I've never seen anything like it. It would be one thing if the team were winning games despite his crap play, but that's not remotely what's happening.
We need that image of the "2022 Wild Card Win" banner.
Its insane. It would be like if Frank Ntilkina or Kevin Knox were still starting for the Knicks in their 6th seasons and hoping they improve "with better talent around them".
We have posters here ready to throw a parade for the guy if he wins 10 games in his 6th season.
So hypothetically speaking…
We win 10-11 games, make the playoffs, even maybe win a playoff game - that’s not a reason to be excited? What if Jones combines for 4000+ yards and 27-30 TDs? Would we consider that a good year for the franchise?
Or should we just continue to suck until magically we win the SB? We have to get better - and it shouldn’t matter if it’s Jones in his 6th year or not.
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LOL.
& this is why other fans of other teams laugh at us.
Nope. Other fan bases laugh at our fan base because it it a disloyal, piece of $hit, old fat guy fanbase that want to win the Superbowl every year or they are miserable.
I think at this point, most of the old fat guys would just settle for the occasional division title and not being out of the hunt by Halloween every year...
Are you denying you’re producer and manhattan?
Will you also laugh at the Jones' defenders running away if he continues to play lousy and/or gets seriously injured again?
The big question this year is if Nabers will be the functional equivalent of 2018 Barkley. And is that good enough to assuage the fears that Jones never has weapons.
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How do I let myself keep getting sucked into these dopey fucking threads. The rehashing of every point is so beyond tired. Bring the season on already. I have to say if Jones has a good year, it will be hilarious to see who slinks away. Again.
Will you also laugh at the Jones' defenders running away if he continues to play lousy and/or gets seriously injured again?
Probably.
The big question this year is if Nabers will be the functional equivalent of 2018 Barkley. And is that good enough to assuage the fears that Jones never has weapons.
Haha - you always seem to make my day.
As far as Nabers - his impact needs to be greater than Barkley for a career because his position is of a higher value.
So hypothetically speaking…
We win 10-11 games, make the playoffs, even maybe win a playoff game - that’s not a reason to be excited? What if Jones combines for 4000+ yards and 27-30 TDs? Would we consider that a good year for the franchise?
Or should we just continue to suck until magically we win the SB? We have to get better - and it shouldn’t matter if it’s Jones in his 6th year or not.
Instead of taking a look at extreme hypotheticals with obvious answers, how about this one:
The Giants win 7-8 games. Jones throws for 3100 yards and 18-20 TDs.
Would that be a good year for the franchise? Would it be good enough to keep pressing onward into year 7 for Jones? Because I'd venture a guess that we'd be seeing a lot of support from the usual suspects there.
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So hypothetically speaking…
We win 10-11 games, make the playoffs, even maybe win a playoff game - that’s not a reason to be excited? What if Jones combines for 4000+ yards and 27-30 TDs? Would we consider that a good year for the franchise?
Or should we just continue to suck until magically we win the SB? We have to get better - and it shouldn’t matter if it’s Jones in his 6th year or not.
Instead of taking a look at extreme hypotheticals with obvious answers, how about this one:
The Giants win 7-8 games. Jones throws for 3100 yards and 18-20 TDs.
Would that be a good year for the franchise? Would it be good enough to keep pressing onward into year 7 for Jones? Because I'd venture a guess that we'd be seeing a lot of support from the usual suspects there.
Of course it wouldn’t. I didn’t want him back this year.
But he’s the starting QB this year. And unlikely as it is that he performs well - his OL and WRs are better so his stats may reflect that.
It's hard to find a modern day QB that has as many starts as he does with as little counting stats as he does.
I can not think of a modern day QB that has had as long a leash as the Giants have given DJ.
It doesn't make a whole lot sense.
This will be DJ's legacy. The single worst player ever to play the position. Add the money that has been spent on him, and his legacy of ineptitude will never be matched again. Ever.
Ralph C is obviously trolling for hits knowing that gaslighting and blowing smoke up the collective asses of his fellow Giants fans is a sure fire way to do so. Shame on you Ralph.
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...is just surreal. I've never seen anything like it. It would be one thing if the team were winning games despite his crap play, but that's not remotely what's happening.
We need that image of the "2022 Wild Card Win" banner.
This is my single favorite post of the DJ era. Well played GD!
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of all time.... like, legitimately...given a minimum number of starts at QB (like qualifying for the MLB BA AVG title).
It's hard to find a modern day QB that has as many starts as he does with as little counting stats as he does.
I can not think of a modern day QB that has had as long a leash as the Giants have given DJ.
It doesn't make a whole lot sense.
This will be DJ's legacy. The single worst player ever to play the position. Add the money that has been spent on him, and his legacy of ineptitude will never be matched again. Ever.
Ralph C is obviously trolling for hits knowing that gaslighting and blowing smoke up the collective asses of his fellow Giants fans is a sure fire way to do so. Shame on you Ralph.
What a dumb post. Congrats.
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In comment 16535065 Dnew15 said:
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of all time.... like, legitimately...given a minimum number of starts at QB (like qualifying for the MLB BA AVG title).
It's hard to find a modern day QB that has as many starts as he does with as little counting stats as he does.
I can not think of a modern day QB that has had as long a leash as the Giants have given DJ.
It doesn't make a whole lot sense.
This will be DJ's legacy. The single worst player ever to play the position. Add the money that has been spent on him, and his legacy of ineptitude will never be matched again. Ever.
Ralph C is obviously trolling for hits knowing that gaslighting and blowing smoke up the collective asses of his fellow Giants fans is a sure fire way to do so. Shame on you Ralph.
What a dumb post. Congrats.
King of the pollyanna gaslighters weighs in again with his brilliant acumen on the sport.
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In comment 16535337 The Mike said:
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In comment 16535065 Dnew15 said:
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of all time.... like, legitimately...given a minimum number of starts at QB (like qualifying for the MLB BA AVG title).
It's hard to find a modern day QB that has as many starts as he does with as little counting stats as he does.
I can not think of a modern day QB that has had as long a leash as the Giants have given DJ.
It doesn't make a whole lot sense.
This will be DJ's legacy. The single worst player ever to play the position. Add the money that has been spent on him, and his legacy of ineptitude will never be matched again. Ever.
Ralph C is obviously trolling for hits knowing that gaslighting and blowing smoke up the collective asses of his fellow Giants fans is a sure fire way to do so. Shame on you Ralph.
What a dumb post. Congrats.
King of the pollyanna gaslighters weighs in again with his brilliant acumen on the sport.
Yes, even rivaling your jeenyus takes.
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...is just surreal. I've never seen anything like it. It would be one thing if the team were winning games despite his crap play, but that's not remotely what's happening.
We need that image of the "2022 Wild Card Win" banner.
Its insane. It would be like if Frank Ntilkina or Kevin Knox were still starting for the Knicks in their 6th seasons and hoping they improve "with better talent around them".
We have posters here ready to throw a parade for the guy if he wins 10 games in his 6th season.
It doesn’t mean Jones is good but people who completely dismiss surrounding casts are just as wrong as those saying Jones has been a great QB.
I can’t wait until the team is completely perfect around Jones so he can finally start to show how good he really is. Think that’ll happen by year 12?
I can’t wait until the team is completely perfect around Jones so he can finally start to show how good he really is. Think that’ll happen by year 12?
So no excuses are being cited. Thanks.
Jones criticism is about Daboll, Schoen, and Mara. They opted to pay this stiff and have not tried to improve on him. That's on them.
They had better win those 10-11 games this year. Anything less and they should all get destroyed.
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What he is is well established.
Jones criticism is about Daboll, Schoen, and Mara. They opted to pay this stiff and have not tried to improve on him. That's on them.
They had better win those 10-11 games this year. Anything less and they should all get destroyed.
Anything less and very very unlikely Jones sees 2025 with the Giants.
Anything less and none of them should see 2025 with the Giants. Unfortunately though the owner can't be fired.
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In comment 16535142 Go Terps said:
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What he is is well established.
Jones criticism is about Daboll, Schoen, and Mara. They opted to pay this stiff and have not tried to improve on him. That's on them.
They had better win those 10-11 games this year. Anything less and they should all get destroyed.
Anything less and very very unlikely Jones sees 2025 with the Giants.
Anything less and none of them should see 2025 with the Giants. Unfortunately though the owner can't be fired.
Same owner with two SB wins?
It doesn’t mean Jones is good but people who completely dismiss surrounding casts are just as wrong as those saying Jones has been a great QB.
A quick recap. I excluded 23 since we've adjudicated that enough this off season and already in this thread.
2019: he's a rookie!
2020: COVID restrictions in camp! Having to learn a new system. No weapons
2021: Judge bad! Golladay bad! Weapons!
2022: ignore the bad, everything is good!
The big question this year is if Nabers will be the functional equivalent of 2018 Barkley. And is that good enough to assuage the fears that Jones never has weapons.
hahaha
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Are we really saying that his skilled players and OL have been below average is not reality?
It doesn’t mean Jones is good but people who completely dismiss surrounding casts are just as wrong as those saying Jones has been a great QB.
A quick recap. I excluded 23 since we've adjudicated that enough this off season and already in this thread.
2019: he's a rookie!
2020: COVID restrictions in camp! Having to learn a new system. No weapons
2021: Judge bad! Golladay bad! Weapons!
2022: ignore the bad, everything is good!
2019 - he was a rookie. That’s a fact. Was he suppose to be a MVP that year?
2020: were his weapons good? Please cite the great players he had, please.
2021: is judge a good coach? I thought he was awful. Golladay hasn’t played since. And the weapons and OL still sucked.
2022 - no one ever said that
So again - where are the excuses?
& this is why other fans of other teams laugh at us.
Literally his entire NFL career proves otherwise.
If he manages to have 1 good year, he shall be deemed as a success and will have shown that all the faith placed in him by ownership was justified.
By the end of his career, the Giants franchise will judge themselves on whether they provided Daniel, the tools, talent, and opportunity to fulfill his potential and achieve his personal objectives.
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In comment 16535401 Blue21 said:
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In comment 16535142 Go Terps said:
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What he is is well established.
Jones criticism is about Daboll, Schoen, and Mara. They opted to pay this stiff and have not tried to improve on him. That's on them.
They had better win those 10-11 games this year. Anything less and they should all get destroyed.
Anything less and very very unlikely Jones sees 2025 with the Giants.
Anything less and none of them should see 2025 with the Giants. Unfortunately though the owner can't be fired.
Same owner with two SB wins?
How many did Coughlin and Reese have? They both got fired by that owner, didn't they? So I guess John Mara is really the one who deserves the credit for those trophies?
In business, if you're going to invest in asset inside of an underperforming portfolio, you need very clear signals the asset given more average circumstances would thrive. This is the question I always come back to, and have never really gotten very convincing responses from those who think he is a good player in bad circumstances.
If there was quantifiable data to support these characteristics, I would be convinced it's everyone else not him.
- Is his on-target rate, IAY/A etc., when under pressure in the same neighborhood as the good quarterbacks?
- Is his on-target rate, IAY/A, etc. when he's not under pressure in the same neighborhood as the good quarterbacks?
- On a per completion basis, is his AY vs. YAC ratio, in the same neighborhood as the good quarterbacks?
In essence, forget about the outcomes, and focus on the circumstances.
I think it’s a dumb term but it typically doesnt describe hatred for a person when used in this context.
Mostly because of the Manning family antics (mostly Archie). Then it was all the "good Eli - Bad Eli drama); then the championships; THEN the Eli decline (that nobody wanted to accept) ....
It's called life, gentlemen,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA2IYnGRYac
.
Best for him to stay away from analyzing data imv but tremendous skills in data entry.
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LOL.
& this is why other fans of other teams laugh at us.
That is not true, any proof? I know you are a true Jones hater, but there are those of us, like Ralph C whwo think Jones is a top tier qb, we believe he can get the Giants 10 wins. Until proven other wise we will stick with him!
The Daniel Jones Contract is a punchline on NFL podcasts. When talking about bad contracts, you will routinely hear, "that contract is bad, but it's not Daniel Jones bad." They're laughing at the Giants and the contract.
As to your desire to watch Jones win us 10 games in 2024, Blake Bortles won 10 games for the Jags, took them to the AFCCG, and he hasn't played a game in the NFL since 2019, when he was 27 yrs old.
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LOL.
& this is why other fans of other teams laugh at us.
That is not true, any proof? I know you are a true Jones hater, but there are those of us, like Ralph C whwo think Jones is a top tier qb, we believe he can get the Giants 10 wins. Until proven other wise we will stick with him!
"Until he proves otherwise..."
This is the lense so many of you use that I don't understand. The world has to "prove" Jones isn't a good QB, and as long as he can play one more game, that hasn't been proven.
Why does Jones have no responsibility to prove he is good? Why is it assumed that if there are bad players around him, he must be good? Does that also mean Taylor and Devito are good because they had the same bad players around them and produced similar results?
I have never in my life seen a fan base have lower expectations for a single player than Giants fans for Daniel Jones.
"He got out of bed and made it to the facility today! You can't teach leadership and desire like that!!!"
It was about a 4, trending to a 3, when the usual "you're a dupe / no you're a dupe" idiots showed up and drove it to a zero.
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If this, if that, if, if, if…
I can’t wait until the team is completely perfect around Jones so he can finally start to show how good he really is. Think that’ll happen by year 12?
So no excuses are being cited. Thanks.
So, you’re delusional and can’t read. Thanks. Good to know.
You are in the cult on the opposite of this.
Threads like this exist because some of you have taken it too far with shitting on Jones every chance you can get. It's all tit for tat at this point.
I root for the Giants team. If a player helps them win, I root for them. If a player doesn't help them win, I want them replaced with someone better.
I am trying to understand that that is not how everyone views it, which is fine.
I myself will root for the team to actually have improved this year, especially the OL and skill positions (but ESPECIALLY OL) and actually root for Daniel Jones (or any other QB behind center this season) to be successful. I'm actually looking forward to the season. The team is not good enough to make a super bowl, but if they are improved and keep themselves relevant into playoff crunch time, and if the offense shows some real life, I'll consider that a successful season.
Give Patrick Mahomes 6 Yearz of what Daniel experienced last year and see what you get. No QB is performing well in those types of circumstances. I would think that’s understood by everyone, but here we are, and there are still people here trying to use last year against him.
Jake, you make so much sense. It's amazing how DJ haters totally ignore the conditions he's played under. The OL not only stinks but has been getting him battered for several years, ignored. Oh, he's supposed to rise above that, what BS. Mediocre receivers, at best, ignored. Oh, he's supposed to make all around him better, BS. Even 2022 when he took the team to the playoffs, the surrounding cast was not that great, does he get credit? No, ignored. The cry is he stunk against Philly when the entire team got blitzed, even our pro bowlers. Ignored. Oh, but it's been 5 years, yes, 5 years with the same incompetent team, ignored. Three different systems in 5 years, ignored. These are called excuses by some but they're facts totally ignored so they can keep the anti-DJ train moving. Then of course, you get the contract argument, with that money he has to play better, so if his contract was less would his play then be acceptable? Ralph made the point that DJ is mentally tough. Better believe it. Only a mentally tough person can play under those constant bad conditions and unrelenting criticism from fans and yes, so called experts. Of course, I'm no QB expert just a fan, but I have seen flashes of excellent play from him and wonder what he could do under better circumstances. This is nothing I haven't stated before but so obvious to me that it merits repeating.
I myself will root for the team to actually have improved this year, especially the OL and skill positions (but ESPECIALLY OL) and actually root for Daniel Jones (or any other QB behind center this season) to be successful. I'm actually looking forward to the season. The team is not good enough to make a super bowl, but if they are improved and keep themselves relevant into playoff crunch time, and if the offense shows some real life, I'll consider that a successful season.
Nice sensible post.
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In comment 16535370 bwitz said:
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If this, if that, if, if, if…
I can’t wait until the team is completely perfect around Jones so he can finally start to show how good he really is. Think that’ll happen by year 12?
So no excuses are being cited. Thanks.
So, you’re delusional and can’t read. Thanks. Good to know.
You know you provided absolutely no examples. Good try though.
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In comment 16535403 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16535401 Blue21 said:
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In comment 16535142 Go Terps said:
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What he is is well established.
Jones criticism is about Daboll, Schoen, and Mara. They opted to pay this stiff and have not tried to improve on him. That's on them.
They had better win those 10-11 games this year. Anything less and they should all get destroyed.
Anything less and very very unlikely Jones sees 2025 with the Giants.
Anything less and none of them should see 2025 with the Giants. Unfortunately though the owner can't be fired.
Same owner with two SB wins?
How many did Coughlin and Reese have? They both got fired by that owner, didn't they? So I guess John Mara is really the one who deserves the credit for those trophies?
So I guess we can only judge an owner when things are bad. But not when they’re good? Or should be like certain posters who accuse him of being racist?
Hard to keep up.
But the fact people keep referring to the owner as a reason this team has been tend to be very low IQ people. But hey - maybe that’s why you relate so well to them.
I would like to compete regularly for Super Bowls.
I would like to compete regularly for Super Bowls.
I’m not trying to pick a fight. But we have to get to the playoffs first. If we win 10-11 games and get there - that’s a huge step forward. We can keep adding to the team (and finding a new QB at the same time).
This season shouldn’t be SB or bust. It should be getting to the playoffs.
I myself will root for the team to actually have improved this year, especially the OL and skill positions (but ESPECIALLY OL) and actually root for Daniel Jones (or any other QB behind center this season) to be successful.
Here's the thing about what you root for: no one cares.
When the Giants play against Patrick Mahomes or Joe Montana or Otto Graham you can root for those guys to suck but it won't matter; those guys are great players.
Daniel Jones is a shitty starting NFL quarterback. Of the 90 or so quarterbacks currently on NFL rosters he'd probably rank around 40-50; he's firmly backup quality and arguably the third best QB currently on the team. Root for him all you want - it doesn't make any difference. If they pulled a random guy off the street to be the Giants' QB you'd root for him too. It wouldn't make him any good.
No one cares what you're rooting for. There's what we want, and then there's what's real.
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It’s fucking lunacy. I’m not joking when I call it a cult because it is.
I root for the Giants team. If a player helps them win, I root for them. If a player doesn't help them win, I want them replaced with someone better.
I am trying to understand that that is not how everyone views it, which is fine.
That is exactly how everyone (well, except Jack, he's special) feels.
The difference is how you respond when the roster is set.
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I have higher standards than ‘Well, I just hope we’re in the playoff mix come December.’
I would like to compete regularly for Super Bowls.
I’m not trying to pick a fight. But we have to get to the playoffs first. If we win 10-11 games and get there - that’s a huge step forward. We can keep adding to the team (and finding a new QB at the same time).
This season shouldn’t be SB or bust. It should be getting to the playoffs.
Of course you are trying to pick a fight. Just a few minutes ago you accused anyone being critical of the owner as being "low IQ."
If you want to be nasty and insulting, just embrace it. God knows enough others do. But don't pretend to be trying to bring common sense or moderation to a discussion where people with differing opinions are all stupid.
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In comment 16535499 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I have higher standards than ‘Well, I just hope we’re in the playoff mix come December.’
I would like to compete regularly for Super Bowls.
I’m not trying to pick a fight. But we have to get to the playoffs first. If we win 10-11 games and get there - that’s a huge step forward. We can keep adding to the team (and finding a new QB at the same time).
This season shouldn’t be SB or bust. It should be getting to the playoffs.
Of course you are trying to pick a fight. Just a few minutes ago you accused anyone being critical of the owner as being "low IQ."
If you want to be nasty and insulting, just embrace it. God knows enough others do. But don't pretend to be trying to bring common sense or moderation to a discussion where people with differing opinions are all stupid.
Actually I wasn’t picking a fight at all. I know SFGF doesn’t like Jones as the QB. And I understand the goal is contend for the SB. But we aren’t there yet. Even if everything goes right this season. But if this team makes the playoffs and some of your younger players take off - it would be a very successful season. No matter who the QB is. We need some success first. And you can have success and also look for a new QB along the way.
That should be the goal for this season. IMO.
It's not about a specific person. You can insert any QBs name there, and if the team doesn't win a super bowl (or sometimes even when it just gets to or even does win one) you have a few dooshbags who will flood every thread about how much they know about NFL quarterbacking (more than the GM and staff) and that [INSERT QB NAME HERE] NEEDS to be replaced and that the owner is conspiring to suck and handcuffing the staff and literally SCREAM into every other thread here about it incessantly.
Of course there are, we just aren’t on those message boards. You don’t think Darnold, Mayfield, Winston, etc didn’t have big support from a minority group of fans?
Trubisky and Darnold have changed teams three times since being drafted. Daniel Jones has made 60 starts on the same team and has a $160M contract.
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mediocre, inconsequential, and eventually irrelevant and forgettable athlete anywhere who has inspired debates with this much passion and vitriol? It really is astonishing.
Of course there are, we just aren’t on those message boards. You don’t think Darnold, Mayfield, Winston, etc didn’t have big support from a minority group of fans?
Forget athlete. What about coaching? Marvin Lewis coached something like 14 years for the bengals and never won a playoff game.
Trubisky and Darnold have changed teams three times since being drafted. Daniel Jones has made 60 starts on the same team and has a $160M contract.
Numbers don’t lie.
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mediocre, inconsequential, and eventually irrelevant and forgettable athlete anywhere who has inspired debates with this much passion and vitriol? It really is astonishing.
Of course there are, we just aren’t on those message boards. You don’t think Darnold, Mayfield, Winston, etc didn’t have big support from a minority group of fans?
I don't know, but if so, their big support wouldn't exist in the same vacuum as Jones' support does because all three were more highly touted prospects with considerably more collegiate success than Jones ever had.
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In comment 16535512 santacruzom said:
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mediocre, inconsequential, and eventually irrelevant and forgettable athlete anywhere who has inspired debates with this much passion and vitriol? It really is astonishing.
Of course there are, we just aren’t on those message boards. You don’t think Darnold, Mayfield, Winston, etc didn’t have big support from a minority group of fans?
I don't know, but if so, their big support wouldn't exist in the same vacuum as Jones' support does because all three were more highly touted prospects with considerably more collegiate success than Jones ever had.
What’s your sample size though, 4 posters on BBI? WFAN callers don’t like Jones, most of the media has moved on, people that play fantasy don’t use him. People that gamble might bet rushing stats?
You guys might be arguing with trolls and that’s the sample size.
He needs to go out and start fast and win. He needs to quiet the fans and lead a strong offense. He's making $40M and he's got a strong supporting cast. Enough of the excuses.
If it's a slow start, move to Lock and don't let Jones see the field again.
There is no real debate on Jones. 98% of this fan base has moved on from thinking he is any sort of answer for this franchise.
There is no real debate on Jones. 98% of this fan base has moved on from thinking he is any sort of answer for this franchise.
Yes, the far majority of NYG fans wanted to move on from Jones leading up to the draft. BBI tends to skew older and more patient which I imagine is why we see some posts like we do from Ralph. The far majority of Giant fans will be booing heavily if Jones struggles week 1. The leash needs to be short otherwise the fans will let it be known rather quickly.
Nice strawman there Mike! Maybe the only people 'all in' on Jones are Schoen, Daboll and the Giants but then WTF do they know. I also doubt very much there are any fans at all 'all in' on Jones; What they have done is accepted the reality that Jones is going to be the guy this year and like the Giants feel that Jones has shown some stuff in the past and would like to see what he can do surrounded by a better supporting cast.
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While the debates are heated here on BBI, it is a very small, vocal subset of the fan base that is all in on Daniel Jones.
Nice strawman there Mike! Maybe the only people 'all in' on Jones are Schoen, Daboll and the Giants but then WTF do they know. I also doubt very much there are any fans at all 'all in' on Jones; What they have done is accepted the reality that Jones is going to be the guy this year and like the Giants feel that Jones has shown some stuff in the past and would like to see what he can do surrounded by a better supporting cast.
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There is no real debate on Jones.
True there isn't. The Giants have made their decision and all the sqwuaking in the world isn't going to change anything.
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98% of this fan base has moved on from thinking he is any sort of answer for this franchise.
Exactly where are they going to go! And when the Giants do start to win again I hope they just keep on going!
If this past offseason was not a favorable enough landscape to try to improve the QB situation, then what circumstances have to be in place?
Or is it like Sy said above...they paid Jones so that's that...?
My concern is not about Jones and what he will and won't be. my concern is the front office and why they seem convinced Jones gives them the best chance to win year in and year out since this will be year 3 for Schoen and Daboll hitching their fortunes to him?
[quote] He needs to go out and win this year. He has a very strong WR group. He's got an all pro level left tackle. He's got an OL which was invested in heavily through free agency. He's got an offensive coordinator who is viewed as an up and coming coaching prospect who will likely get a HC job. He's got a head coach who won COY in 2022.
He needs to go out and start fast and win. He needs to quiet the fans and lead a strong offense. He's making $40M and he's got a strong supporting cast. Enough of the excuses.
If it's a slow start, move to Lock and don't let Jones see the field again. [/quote ____________
You are right, Sean. Everything else is jousting at windmills. It isn’t worth arguing about until we see what happens in September. For the next 3 months, I’m just going to see what happens with the other 89 players.
My concern is not about Jones and what he will and won't be. my concern is the front office and why they seem convinced Jones gives them the best chance to win year in and year out since this will be year 3 for Schoen and Daboll hitching their fortunes to him?
Imagine hitching your ride to Daniel Jones. Wow, just wow.
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60 starts in the NFL is a sufficient sample size to tell you a lot about a player.
My concern is not about Jones and what he will and won't be. my concern is the front office and why they seem convinced Jones gives them the best chance to win year in and year out since this will be year 3 for Schoen and Daboll hitching their fortunes to him?
Imagine hitching your ride to Daniel Jones. Wow, just wow.
I still feel confident that this will be his last year in a Giant uniform
I get that
But I’m excited to see how the young talent develops
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...is just surreal. I've never seen anything like it. It would be one thing if the team were winning games despite his crap play, but that's not remotely what's happening.
We need that image of the "2022 Wild Card Win" banner.
You should add:
"Only NFC QB to beat Lamar"
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Trubisky and Darnold have changed teams three times since being drafted. Daniel Jones has made 60 starts on the same team and has a $160M contract.
Numbers don’t lie.
Sometimes they do, if ambient reasons are not taken into consideration.
I'm legit curious. No QB has a perfect situation, but some make it work anyways. Meanwhile, Jones gets the 'Well ____ was out' or 'He didn't have ____ to throw it to.'
I'm legit curious. No QB has a perfect situation, but some make it work anyways. Meanwhile, Jones gets the 'Well ____ was out' or 'He didn't have ____ to throw it to.'
Jones certainly deserves a fair share.
But I disagree no QB has it perfect Brock Purdy has the greatest situation a football god ever created. Lol
But the dude was drafted sixth overall. He's making $40 million. I'm just sick of excuse after excuse with him. When you're drafted that high & making the coin he is, elevate those around you.
& I'm hoping he throws 35 TDs this fall & leads us on a deep playoff run. I want to be proven wrong on my assessment on him.
But the dude was drafted sixth overall. He's making $40 million. I'm just sick of excuse after excuse with him. When you're drafted that high & making the coin he is, elevate those around you.
& I'm hoping he throws 35 TDs this fall & leads us on a deep playoff run. I want to be proven wrong on my assessment on him.
I know it sounds cliche. Jones will be much better this year cause I believe the OL and WRs are better. Plus we won’t have to rely so much on Barkley.
Will it be good enough to continue invest in him? Probably not. But I expect a bit of a bounce back.
Figured we should just cut to the chase. Let us know.
Wonder who he likes now?
Another chucklehead.
I'm legit curious. No QB has a perfect situation, but some make it work anyways. Meanwhile, Jones gets the 'Well ____ was out' or 'He didn't have ____ to throw it to.'
He’s played well against bad defenses. While others use that to discount those games, all I can think of is ‘this is what DJ looks like when he’s on an even playing field talent-wise’.
If healthy, he’s our 27-year old starting QB. He’ll sink or swim in what amounts to a contract year. I’m personally rooting for him to show he’s worthy of that contract and going on another playoff run.
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Why is it never Daniel Jones' fault? Why is it always other factors?
I'm legit curious. No QB has a perfect situation, but some make it work anyways. Meanwhile, Jones gets the 'Well ____ was out' or 'He didn't have ____ to throw it to.'
Forget the ‘perfect situation’, for me it’s that we haven’t even seen him in a reasonable situation. His receivers have been bottom of the league players and the OL ranged from worst in the league (possibly in history) up to the low end of average. I just don’t understand how those factors can be ignored.
He’s played well against bad defenses. While others use that to discount those games, all I can think of is ‘this is what DJ looks like when he’s on an even playing field talent-wise’.
If healthy, he’s our 27-year old starting QB. He’ll sink or swim in what amounts to a contract year. I’m personally rooting for him to show he’s worthy of that contract and going on another playoff run.
The situation doesn't really matter. Every year a QB fails to emerge as a star reduces the probability that he will emerge as a star. There are very few QBs who have played as poorly as Jones, who have ever become great. So few, that Jones' chances of becoming an exception are infinitesimally small. Now also consider that the objective of an NFL franchise is to get into position to win multiple Super Bowls. That's it. And a team does that by identifying top talent with high ceilings and a reasonable probability of attaining that ceiling. They aren't required to be "fair" to a failing QB. They don't have to learn what they have in a player they drafted. They have to be decisive and make decisions that increase the odds of getting a great QB. And by sticking with a poor QB at the expense of trying other higher ceiling options, they are defying two widely accepted management principles. They are stuck on a "sunk cost", stubbornly sticking with Jones because they spent a high pick on him. And they are forgetting the "opportunity cost" of this decision, that they might have found by now a championship QB but haven't because they haven't tried due to allegiance to Jones.
Jones to me is a probability problem for the Giants, and they are playing it the wrong way. And companies who play probabilities the way the Giants have, generally fail and go out of business. But NFL teams don't go out of business. Instead they just wind up sucking for a long time. And that's the situation we have with the Giants. As you can plainly see. They are running a $5B company without logic, and at the whims of an owner who views this big business as a family heirloom.
& this is why other fans of other teams laugh at us.
Can you elaborate a bit more on that?
Well, Tiki Barber seems to think differently.
Jones has all the tools if healthy. He doesn’t need a great team around him to compensate for his shortcomings. He just needs an adequate surrounding cast to allow him to do what he can do which is way better than most QBs in the league.
Go watch the playoff win versus the Vikings:
THAT IS DANIEL JONES.
This is why when I bother to post that I act like one of those callers into WFAN or ESPN who call in, make a comment and then hang up.
I can’t deal with all the negativity and stupidity.
There is no QB on the planet who could function behind the 2023 line as it was opening day. He was destroyed and got hurt.
He’s not injury prone. He stayed healthy throughout 2022. He brings a skill set to the table that few NFL QBs do. He just needs f****** decent line play.
Just DECENT.
You’ll see. With the additions to the line as well as the addition of Malik, Tracy, a healthy Robinson and Gray with a year under his belt?
Daniel Jones is going to be a rock star. I’ve put my money where my posts are too.
I’ve bet on him to lead the league in TD passes and for Malik to be rookie of the year.
Yes, that’s right and if I’m wrong?
I don’t give a flying expletive.
But seeing how fast he’s recovered and how unaffected he is by “fans”?
I believe in DJ completely.
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I myself will root for the team to actually have improved this year, especially the OL and skill positions (but ESPECIALLY OL) and actually root for Daniel Jones (or any other QB behind center this season) to be successful.
Here's the thing about what you root for: no one cares.
When the Giants play against Patrick Mahomes or Joe Montana or Otto Graham you can root for those guys to suck but it won't matter; those guys are great players.
Daniel Jones is a shitty starting NFL quarterback. Of the 90 or so quarterbacks currently on NFL rosters he'd probably rank around 40-50; he's firmly backup quality and arguably the third best QB currently on the team. Root for him all you want - it doesn't make any difference. If they pulled a random guy off the street to be the Giants' QB you'd root for him too. It wouldn't make him any good.
No one cares what you're rooting for. There's what we want, and then there's what's real.
Daniel Jones is one of the best starting QBs in the NFL.
Mark my words.
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Trubisky and Darnold have changed teams three times since being drafted. Daniel Jones has made 60 starts on the same team and has a $160M contract.
Numbers don’t lie.
Yeah, numbers at their base do, in fact, lie.
Because unless you are comparing the numbers of QBs who have played with the same team in the same circumstances?
There are mitigating circumstances called “variables” that must be considered.
2022? We don’t sniff the playoffs without Jones never mind winning a road playoff game.
I’m telling you: If the FA upgrades to guard result in anywhere near dec t line play?
All of you Jones haters will not be haters anymore.
There is no real debate on Jones. 98% of this fan base has moved on from thinking he is any sort of answer for this franchise.
And why is that?
“Oh, he gets hurt.”
Ok. That’s it for me commenting on this thread.
There’s a reason Jones is still the starter. There’s a reason that Tiki Barber said “of course he can” when a caller today asked if he though Jones could be an MVP.
Jones has all of the skills. ALL OF THEM.
And this season (please God offensive line play) he will show it.
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In comment 16535252 Greg from LI said:
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...is just surreal. I've never seen anything like it. It would be one thing if the team were winning games despite his crap play, but that's not remotely what's happening.
We need that image of the "2022 Wild Card Win" banner.
He doesn’t play like crap. Wow. Lowest INT rate in 2022 and a playoff win with no receivers and a shit line - and 700 rushing yards.
Yeah, that’s total crap.
Last year he didn’t have a damn chance. NOT A CHANCE!
Yes, let’s go with Drew Lock.
You should add:
"Only NFC QB to beat Lamar"
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In comment 16535252 Greg from LI said:
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...is just surreal. I've never seen anything like it. It would be one thing if the team were winning games despite his crap play, but that's not remotely what's happening.
We need that image of the "2022 Wild Card Win" banner.
Its insane. It would be like if Frank Ntilkina or Kevin Knox were still starting for the Knicks in their 6th seasons and hoping they improve "with better talent around them".
We have posters here ready to throw a parade for the guy if he wins 10 games in his 6th season.
Not even close to the correct comparisons. Knox and Nilikita are complete nothing NBA players. Haven't showed anything close to what Jones has. Again we see the anti Jones crowd going to extremes.
Fair point but I don't think its as far off as you think.
How about Obi Toppin? Flashed big time in select games but overall struggled while fans were hoping for more and thought he just needed a better situation. Had a monster playoff game.
Goes to another team and turns out he's just not that good...a backup. Sound familiar?
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one: You've made an evaluation mistake from your Laz-E Boy, and held Jones accountable for the dumpster fire this organization has been.
Those that like to analyze football aren't nearly as confused as to why Jones is still here. And the explanation doesn't require wearing a tinfoil hat.
Almost every X Factor that affects QB play has consistently worked against Jones in the 5 years he's been here. That's why he's still here despite limited production.
There's no cult. There's no tinfoil hat. There's just a guy logging onto the internet everyday blindly railing on Jones. All day. Every day. That's the only strange thing I see.
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one: You've made an evaluation mistake from your Laz-E Boy, and held Jones accountable for the dumpster fire this organization has been.
Those that like to analyze football aren't nearly as confused as to why Jones is still here. And the explanation doesn't require wearing a tinfoil hat.
Almost every X Factor that affects QB play has consistently worked against Jones in the 5 years he's been here. That's why he's still here despite limited production.
There's no cult. There's no tinfoil hat. There's just a guy logging onto the internet everyday blindly railing on Jones. All day. Every day. That's the only strange thing I see.
Jim Jones would have loved you.
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one: You've made an evaluation mistake from your Laz-E Boy, and held Jones accountable for the dumpster fire this organization has been.
Those that like to analyze football aren't nearly as confused as to why Jones is still here. And the explanation doesn't require wearing a tinfoil hat.
Almost every X Factor that affects QB play has consistently worked against Jones in the 5 years he's been here. That's why he's still here despite limited production.
There's no cult. There's no tinfoil hat. There's just a guy logging onto the internet everyday blindly railing on Jones. All day. Every day. That's the only strange thing I see.
Best comment of the day. Some folks must have boring lives.
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one: You've made an evaluation mistake from your Laz-E Boy, and held Jones accountable for the dumpster fire this organization has been.
Those that like to analyze football aren't nearly as confused as to why Jones is still here. And the explanation doesn't require wearing a tinfoil hat.
Almost every X Factor that affects QB play has consistently worked against Jones in the 5 years he's been here. That's why he's still here despite limited production.
There's no cult. There's no tinfoil hat. There's just a guy logging onto the internet everyday blindly railing on Jones. All day. Every day. That's the only strange thing I see.
He wouldn’t start for one other nfl team and the giants pay him 40million a year to do it. You don’t think there’s an issue with that?
So if none of this has been his fault the past 5 years of awful offense, what do you expect this year?
He's either a good quarterback felled by comically bad circumstances. Or a bad quarterback who earned 82M dollars through plausible deniability.
Also, people who come to BBI to complain BBIers suck butt.
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one: You've made an evaluation mistake from your Laz-E Boy, and held Jones accountable for the dumpster fire this organization has been.
Those that like to analyze football aren't nearly as confused as to why Jones is still here. And the explanation doesn't require wearing a tinfoil hat.
Almost every X Factor that affects QB play has consistently worked against Jones in the 5 years he's been here. That's why he's still here despite limited production.
There's no cult. There's no tinfoil hat. There's just a guy logging onto the internet everyday blindly railing on Jones. All day. Every day. That's the only strange thing I see.
You cite "most of the people who analyze football" as understanding Jones is good.
But the reality is that most of the people who analyze football think Jones isn't good. That's why he is ranked bottom 5 on so many lists. Which has upset people like to. And the reality is people on the Laz-E Boy, like you and Ralph, are the ones denying tbe widely held view that Jones is inadequate.
You see, usually the simplest explanation is the right one. And Jones' performance has been awful. His stats are shit. And the simplest and best explanation is he is a shitty quarterback, and not a great one who has run into comically bad luck for half a decade. He's Blake Bortles. He's Mitch Trubisky, He's Brock Osweiler. Most people who analyze football, already know this.
But, BBIers are being trolled for their faith in the Giants and their hope that DJ will improve.
These threads are about Jones for about 10 minutes. Then they become a shitstorm of emotion and bravado.
Yeah I wish he was making about half of that. Let’s hope for a miracle this year lol
He's either a good quarterback felled by comically bad circumstances. Or a bad quarterback who earned 82M dollars through plausible deniability.
Also, people who come to BBI to complain BBIers suck butt.
I believe it falls firmly in the middle of your two statements. He is a good but not great QB that you can win with until timing works to get that next Eli/Mahomes/Burrow/Allen/ETC., that has been surrounded by comically bad circumstances. These proclamations that he is the worst QB in the league for 10k posts everyday are just stupid.
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While the debates are heated here on BBI, it is a very small, vocal subset of the fan base that is all in on Daniel Jones.
There is no real debate on Jones. 98% of this fan base has moved on from thinking he is any sort of answer for this franchise.
And why is that?
“Oh, he gets hurt.”
Ok. That’s it for me commenting on this thread.
There’s a reason Jones is still the starter. There’s a reason that Tiki Barber said “of course he can” when a caller today asked if he though Jones could be an MVP.
Jones has all of the skills. ALL OF THEM.
And this season (please God offensive line play) he will show it.
Sure. There is no reason to believe the first 5 years of his career would, in any way, be predictive of his actual ability. Jones has only failed because those around him have failed him.
In the absence of concrete proof that he alone is terrible, it should be assumed he is really good. Only a team with no holes up and down the roster is necessary to unleash the beast within Daniel Jones.
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things are "surreal" and "I've never seen anything like it" maybe it's more simple, and you just don't get it.
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct one: You've made an evaluation mistake from your Laz-E Boy, and held Jones accountable for the dumpster fire this organization has been.
Those that like to analyze football aren't nearly as confused as to why Jones is still here. And the explanation doesn't require wearing a tinfoil hat.
Almost every X Factor that affects QB play has consistently worked against Jones in the 5 years he's been here. That's why he's still here despite limited production.
There's no cult. There's no tinfoil hat. There's just a guy logging onto the internet everyday blindly railing on Jones. All day. Every day. That's the only strange thing I see.
You cite "most of the people who analyze football" as understanding Jones is good.
But the reality is that most of the people who analyze football think Jones isn't good. That's why he is ranked bottom 5 on so many lists. Which has upset people like to. And the reality is people on the Laz-E Boy, like you and Ralph, are the ones denying tbe widely held view that Jones is inadequate.
You see, usually the simplest explanation is the right one. And Jones' performance has been awful. His stats are shit. And the simplest and best explanation is he is a shitty quarterback, and not a great one who has run into comically bad luck for half a decade. He's Blake Bortles. He's Mitch Trubisky, He's Brock Osweiler. Most people who analyze football, already know this.
The simplest explanation for his play is he's played Quarterback for a dumpster fire organization with a bad OL and bad receivers, and that clouds the evaluation process. Obviously Schoen and Daboll agree and have said as much, and they're in the best position to know. And now we have proof that it's not just lip service, as they passed on a few 1st round QBs.
The fact that you don't actually consider the dysfunctional circumstances shows me you didn't perform an analysis at all. You just shat yourself.
This one says he loves him.
As they say, teams love you until they cut you.
And DJ is closer to the end than most think.
I believe it falls firmly in the middle of your two statements. He is a good but not great QB that you can win with until timing works to get that next Eli/Mahomes/Burrow/Allen/ETC., that has been surrounded by comically bad circumstances. These proclamations that he is the worst QB in the league for 10k posts everyday are just stupid.
Some questions about that, assuming the Giants can and do win at some reasonable level with Jones at QB:
1) How would they acquire an elite-level QB?
2) What makes you think that the Giants would ever move off Jones if they make the playoffs like the Chiefs did with Alex Smith?
Jones is a Giants lifer to this point, and ownership loves him. If the Giants are reasonably "competitive" Jones is going to play his entire career here.
This one says he loves him.
As they say, teams love you until they cut you.
And DJ is closer to the end than most think.
At this point, it's like arguing balls and strikes.
The call has been made for 2024.
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I believe it falls firmly in the middle of your two statements. He is a good but not great QB that you can win with until timing works to get that next Eli/Mahomes/Burrow/Allen/ETC., that has been surrounded by comically bad circumstances. These proclamations that he is the worst QB in the league for 10k posts everyday are just stupid.
Some questions about that, assuming the Giants can and do win at some reasonable level with Jones at QB:
1) How would they acquire an elite-level QB?
2) What makes you think that the Giants would ever move off Jones if they make the playoffs like the Chiefs did with Alex Smith?
Jones is a Giants lifer to this point, and ownership loves him. If the Giants are reasonably "competitive" Jones is going to play his entire career here.
On question 1: Are you really asking that question? How could anyone possibly know that? A lot of it is timing and luck. How '24 plays out. Where we sit in the next draft. What that crop of QBs looks like. Do I really need to explain this? I don't even get the relevance of the question. On question 2: I don't. And it really doesn't matter. It's 100% up to the staff. The same staff that decided they want to stick with their plan they had when they signed Jones to his current contract.
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About the same guy.
This one says he loves him.
As they say, teams love you until they cut you.
And DJ is closer to the end than most think.
Amazing.
At this point, it's like arguing balls and strikes.
The call has been made for 2024.
On a video game ,,,,, cause there's no actual pithes to argue.
On question 1: Are you really asking that question? How could anyone possibly know that? A lot of it is timing and luck. How '24 plays out. Where we sit in the next draft. What that crop of QBs looks like. Do I really need to explain this? I don't even get the relevance of the question. On question 2: I don't. And it really doesn't matter. It's 100% up to the staff. The same staff that decided they want to stick with their plan they had when they signed Jones to his current contract.
Question 1 is absolutely relevant, and it's a hypothetical discussion anyway. If Jones is a QB you can win some games with, where they sit in the draft is going to put them out of range for any QB - especially given the obvious need the Giants have to be totally in love with a QB to draft him.
To end up with a Mahomes or Allen, you have to be willing to actually draft them. I doubt the Giants are or will ever be. Mahomes was #10 overall, Allen was #7. The Giants just passed on 3 QBs at #6 overall. Why wouldn't it be the same story if they are drafting later than that?
Seems to me your premise is based entirely on luck, and while you may be right surely you acknowledge that's not an actual organizational strategy.
Anyway, we'll still be having this conversation in 2028, because if Jones is even remotely competent there's no chance he's going anywhere.