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Giants Run Defense or Pass Defense

M.S. : 6/16/2024 10:05 am

Which one do you have more questions about (putting aside the synergy between the two)?

Maybe this is just whistling a happy tune, but I'm not too concerned about the Giants secondary. I think they have a lot of young talent, and I believe it can (and will) coalesce around the defensive scheme and coaching of Shane Bowen and Jerome Henderson.

I'm not sure what to think about our run defense. Perhaps the bright side is Wink moving on. His defense was shredded, allowing 5.2 YPC (#31 Rank) and 4.7 YPC (#30 Rank) in his two years here.

But how well with this team perform with both Kayvon Thibodeaux and Brian Burns weighing in at under 260 lbs? They should make for a dynamic EDGE pass rush combo, but can they consistently anchor and set the edge? I have no idea.
Nothing worse  
JCassmen : 6/16/2024 10:15 am : link
Them somebody running the ball down your throat, opens up so many possibilities in the passing game.
Wink played 2 DT DL....which just wasn't enough  
George from PA : 6/16/2024 10:17 am : link
Put 3 beefy men up front.....should free up the LBers and Edge to do their thing

It was odd because Wink defenses were stout against the rush  
SirLoinOfBeef : 6/16/2024 10:19 am : link
in the years before he was here.

I wopuld imagine personnel had a lot to do with it As well as system continuity in Baltimore.

I also wonder how many yards our secondary allowed on missed tackles.
RE: Wink played 2 DT DL....which just wasn't enough  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 6/16/2024 10:28 am : link
In comment 16537790 George from PA said:
Quote:
Put 3 beefy men up front.....should free up the LBers and Edge to do their thing


They are going to do the opposite. Bowen/Vrabel ran a ton of nickel and dime. We'll have more DBs on the field.
A very good question. I think they have a lot of good talent on d but  
Ira : 6/16/2024 10:32 am : link
with some holes they need to fill with another run at free agency and another draft. Regarding run vs pass, I think they'll be middle of the road at both.
If they do that on "running" downs......  
George from PA : 6/16/2024 10:37 am : link
There will be a ton of 3rd and short.

I didn't follow the Titans, but what i remember, they seemed stout against the run.
It’s a good question  
gersh : 6/16/2024 10:56 am : link
as much as defense is the strength of the team it’s also fair to say that there’s valid concerns for both run defense and pass defense.

What we should feel good about is the pass rush and Dexter, Lawrence. Other than that, we shall see.
……  
gersh : 6/16/2024 10:58 am : link
And Okereke
Good question  
5BowlsSoon : 6/16/2024 11:24 am : link
The Baltimore Ravens were considered a very tough D to run against with Wink as their DC. I believe The Giants were much better in stopping the run when we had Big Leonard next to Sexy. Losing Robinson will hurt too. I’m not sure how to feel about run defense because I don’t know much about Burns in run defense and I don’t know much about the changes this new DC will be bringing to the team. We shall see….
The erun defense left a lot to be desired lasat year. Teams ran  
Jack Stroud : 6/16/2024 11:34 am : link
through the middle of the Giants defense late in games that cost them a few wins. The old Big Blue Wrecking Crew rarely allowed a 100 yards rushing in a game, if the Giants can get back to stuffing the run it may force teams to do things they don't want to. Oh, and they must learn how to defense the TE.
I don’t get what our base run defense alignment is  
BillT : 6/16/2024 12:04 pm : link
What’s our “base” defense. Are we running a 4-3 (or 4-2-5) with two DTs and Thibs and Burns as the DEs. Or are they using 3 “DTs” with Thibs and Burns at DE and LB. Anyone have a feel for what’s going on.
RE: I don’t get what our base run defense alignment is  
M.S. : 6/16/2024 1:55 pm : link
In comment 16537828 BillT said:
Quote:
What’s our “base” defense. Are we running a 4-3 (or 4-2-5) with two DTs and Thibs and Burns as the DEs. Or are they using 3 “DTs” with Thibs and Burns at DE and LB. Anyone have a feel for what’s going on.

My assumption is a 2-4-5 base defense.

Dexter and Nacho on the DL
Thibs, McF, Bobby O and Burns at LBer
5 DBs

Of course, on any given play, Thibs and/or Burns could line up flush on the LOS which makes one or both of them sorta look like a DE. But in my book, they are OLBers/Edge pass rushers. Hard to envision them as hand-in-the-dirt, base defensive ends.
Run defense will improve some  
dabru : 6/16/2024 4:07 pm : link
If the offense can sustain drives or get a lead
RE: RE: I don’t get what our base run defense alignment is  
gersh : 6/16/2024 4:13 pm : link
In comment 16537858 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16537828 BillT said:


Quote:


What’s our “base” defense. Are we running a 4-3 (or 4-2-5) with two DTs and Thibs and Burns as the DEs. Or are they using 3 “DTs” with Thibs and Burns at DE and LB. Anyone have a feel for what’s going on.


My assumption is a 2-4-5 base defense.

Dexter and Nacho on the DL
Thibs, McF, Bobby O and Burns at LBer
5 DBs

Of course, on any given play, Thibs and/or Burns could line up flush on the LOS which makes one or both of them sorta look like a DE. But in my book, they are OLBers/Edge pass rushers. Hard to envision them as hand-in-the-dirt, base defensive ends.


Makes sense, but those 6 as the front does seems susceptible to the run.
……  
gersh : 6/16/2024 4:19 pm : link
Back 5?
Banks, Flott as outside CBs
Phillips starts in the slot?
Pinnock and Nubin as the Safties?

…..  
gersh : 6/16/2024 4:27 pm : link
That base puts most of our best players on the field

Chess pieces/depth- pass rush - Ojulari and Simmons new DT Phillips?

For more run stoutness - DJ and Riley

I guess the best remaining player for run defense and pass rush is DT Phillips?
But he is only good for 20-30% snaps/game?
Thanks M.S.  
BillT : 6/16/2024 4:57 pm : link
That’s really not too much different than Wink in having enough run stopping types on the field. Neither Thibs or Burns seem good head to head matchups for your average 320 lb OT. Counting those two as DL seems like cheating. I think, outside of Dex we’re short on the DL. Thibs and Burns are really OLBs not DEs. The whole “edge” designation doesn’t change who the player is and what he can do.
Not having DBs who are allergic to tackling  
RCPhoenix : 6/16/2024 6:09 pm : link
Should help (Adoree Jackson), as should not blitzing like crazy
RE: The erun defense left a lot to be desired lasat year. Teams ran  
solarmike : 6/16/2024 6:23 pm : link
In comment 16537813 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
through the middle of the Giants defense late in games that cost them a few wins. The old Big Blue Wrecking Crew rarely allowed a 100 yards rushing in a game, if the Giants can get back to stuffing the run it may force teams to do things they don't want to. Oh, and they must learn how to defense the TE.


Agreed
Right now, the run D  
Matt M. : 6/16/2024 6:56 pm : link
I am very curious to see what kinds of schemes we run. Wink's D gave us no chance against the run. While I know we are likely to run more nickel D, it's how we arrange the front 7 that really matters.

Against the pass, I think we are going to see a really big improvement. Burns and KT opposite each other and Dex in the middle poses a real dilemma for offenses. You can't really double any of them. Every week I expect at least one to have a monster game and at least one to have a monster year. And consistent pressure up front vastly helps the DBs.
RE: Thanks M.S.  
Klaatu : 6/17/2024 10:36 am : link
In comment 16537915 BillT said:
Quote:
That’s really not too much different than Wink in having enough run stopping types on the field. Neither Thibs or Burns seem good head to head matchups for your average 320 lb OT. Counting those two as DL seems like cheating. I think, outside of Dex we’re short on the DL. Thibs and Burns are really OLBs not DEs. The whole “edge” designation doesn’t change who the player is and what he can do.


I agree, Bill.
RE: RE: I don’t get what our base run defense alignment is  
Angel Eyes : 6/18/2024 10:48 am : link
In comment 16537858 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16537828 BillT said:


Quote:


What’s our “base” defense. Are we running a 4-3 (or 4-2-5) with two DTs and Thibs and Burns as the DEs. Or are they using 3 “DTs” with Thibs and Burns at DE and LB. Anyone have a feel for what’s going on.


My assumption is a 2-4-5 base defense.

Dexter and Nacho on the DL
Thibs, McF, Bobby O and Burns at LBer
5 DBs

Of course, on any given play, Thibs and/or Burns could line up flush on the LOS which makes one or both of them sorta look like a DE. But in my book, they are OLBers/Edge pass rushers. Hard to envision them as hand-in-the-dirt, base defensive ends.

I've already got alarm bells ringing from that with the edges lining in a standup position and getting rooted out. Wink did it almost all the time with two linemen and they got shredded.
Even with Leo here next to Dex, we had some bad games vs the run  
gersh : 6/18/2024 11:51 am : link
Nacho is at least an average DT vs the run
IMO, Riley Jordan and especially DJ Davidson have shown me that they may elevate to average starting DT this season, or, at least, decent rotational depth
RE: RE: RE: I don’t get what our base run defense alignment is  
Klaatu : 6/18/2024 11:56 am : link
In comment 16538823 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 16537858 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 16537828 BillT said:


Quote:


What’s our “base” defense. Are we running a 4-3 (or 4-2-5) with two DTs and Thibs and Burns as the DEs. Or are they using 3 “DTs” with Thibs and Burns at DE and LB. Anyone have a feel for what’s going on.


My assumption is a 2-4-5 base defense.

Dexter and Nacho on the DL
Thibs, McF, Bobby O and Burns at LBer
5 DBs

Of course, on any given play, Thibs and/or Burns could line up flush on the LOS which makes one or both of them sorta look like a DE. But in my book, they are OLBers/Edge pass rushers. Hard to envision them as hand-in-the-dirt, base defensive ends.


I've already got alarm bells ringing from that with the edges lining in a standup position and getting rooted out. Wink did it almost all the time with two linemen and they got shredded.


If the 2-4-5 doesn't thrill you, I don't think you're going to like Bowen's 2-3-6, either.
RE: Even with Leo here next to Dex, we had some bad games vs the run  
Blue Dog : 6/18/2024 11:57 am : link
In comment 16538900 gersh said:
Quote:
Nacho is at least an average DT vs the run
IMO, Riley Jordan and especially DJ Davidson have shown me that they may elevate to average starting DT this season, or, at least, decent rotational depth


The run defense YPC dropped when all three stepped on the field.
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