What was the feeling around NYG after the 1993 season?

When PS and LT retired it was obvious an era of greatness was gone. There was a little optimism with Reeves but that quickly faded. Until Kerry Collin’s was brought in it was a depressing few years.

breath of fresh air after the R@y H@andley era disaster.

George Young and Tom Boisture failed to re-stock the team properly so it was filled with too many mid-level players.
That said, the surprising 3-0 start had us a little hopeful...then disaster struck in NO and the team failed to recover until it was basically too late.

until LT announced his retirement and Reeves and Young screwed around with Simms. The Simms thing just never made sense to me. I understand moving on, but he showed he could still play. I guess they thought they saw enough of Dave Brown in practice to roll with him.

Released Simms , cynically , at a time that made it impossible for Phil to move to another team. They both placed undue , unwarranted faith in Dave Brown. I attended the home games against Washington and Philadelphia. The Giants won both games . However , Brown was lucky on a few throws , hoisting balloon balls downfield into double coverage that were somehow caught by the Giants receiver . I think a DPI figured prominently as well.

It all unraveled for Brown in New Orleans. Brown started well . Then a Saints inside backer stepped in front of a telegraphed short slant. As I recall it was a Pick Six. 7 consecutive losses ensued.

Reeves promised that he would work with the front office regarding personnel moves . He had become a tyrant in Denver. After a brief interlude of peace , he resumed being a tyrant with the Giants . The next 2 seasons only got worse . Brown was terrible . The exodus of talented players continued as Young insisted on his “save the middle class” free -agency initiatives . He was an unmitigated disaster during this period . He should have been let go.

I will say this for Mara . He did not want Simms to be released . Ultimately he adhered to the “no interference “ clause that Young insisted be included in his contract . But Mara hated the move .

I think we started 3-0 in '94 too & I felt we were a Super Bowl contender.

Uh, no.

We all got LT retiring, the writ8g was on the wall.

BUT the Phil Simms cut was just mind boggling after the resurrected season he had.
The wind was sucked out of me for sure

Throw in Dan Reeves going with wobble wind ball brown over the more promising (yet late round draft pick) Kent Graham. And then cutting Kent Graham as the backup fora Tommy Maddox who at the time was terrible. It just seemed like the end was here.

But hindsight, the post Simms era was nothing compared to the post Eli Manning era going on 5 years. Daniel Jones > Dave Brown/Danny Kannell. Rest of giants roster and decision making is 1994+ > 2019+ BY A LONG SHOT

was always solid during those bad QB years, but our offense was so boring to watch. They basically just slammed it up the middle with Hampton a hundred times a game.

With the needle pointing down.

I as 11 at the time. Of course, news moved slower in that pre-internet era, but by the time the team entered camp, Simms and LT were gone, and basically the entire secondary and some OL had left via free agency. They also cut the best receiver on the roster (Ed McCaffrey).

I remember the general feeling was the roster was trash and there was a "who the fuck are these guys" feeling about a couple of position groups (secondary in particular) ala the movie Major League. Seahorn, Sparks, Strahan, and Armstead were all on the team, but none of them were really ready yet.

It was surprising that they started 3-0, but as was mentioned up thread, it was a shaky 3-0 and Brown was not very convincing. Kudos to Reeves however for winning 6 straight to end the season with that roster.

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And the mood was destroyed the very next day when the Giants cut my all time favorite player, Phil Simms. Reeves starts bringing in Denver players, cuts Landeta for Horan and team let's guys go for garbage.

Sadly 1993, for one brief period of like 4 games, Simms finally had 2 real quality WR. Then Sherrard got hurt. Losing that home game to Dallas cost us everything. Mark Johnson drops a Simms pass that would have salted alway the win. Fcck we have sucked again worse than the 95-99 years I hope Schoen is getting it right I'm not getting any younger

In comment 16538483 sb from NYT Forum said:

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Oh, wait, after? Yeah, kind of meh with Phil Simms getting cut and LT retiring.

Wonder if that past experience caused Mara to hold on to Eli too long?

Reeves deserved better.

A revolving door of QBs.....until Kerry Collins.

same high school as I, he was two years younger than me, so I rooted for him.
This is the same reason I rooted hard for Butch Woolfolk who was a star in NJ at Westfield High.

I always root for Giants draft picks but being that I went to HS with Brown and BW being one of the states best players I think I wanted them to succeed badly.

But Brown was awful.

The 94 team won the last six but it was not enough. worse seasons followed.

When I think of 1993, it doesn't seem THAT far away...and yet it's over 30 years...

Anyway, the sense was that Reeves had more or less righted the ship after Handley crashed it into the rocks. But they pushed Simms out the door in very sneaky fashion (it was actually 30 years ago yesterday) during the Rangers parade when no one was paying attention.

So suddenly as fans you realized there was a changing of the guard at QB and it was Brown or Graham. Brown was an unknown, so there were hopes for him to play well and take the job over at QB. You have to remember, at the time it wasn't strange for a QB to sit for 2-3 (or more years) before they got their chance to play. So that Brown didn't play until 1994 after being picked 1st in the 1992 Supplemental Draft wasn't a red flag back then.

Still, the sense was this was an entirely different team. Young didn't handle the salary cap well. They had their entire starting secondary leave in free agency. LT was gone. Simms was gone. So it was very much an unknown as to what was going to happen in 1994. I'd argue 1995 was worse because coming off a 6 game win streak to end 1994, we thought this team was ready to challenge Dallas. And they got curb stomped 35-0 on MNF in the opener and the season went into the toilet. Essentially...what you saw in 2023 was 1994 going into 1995.

In comment 16538538 Matt in SGS said:

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When I think of 1993, it doesn't seem THAT far away...and yet it's over 30 years... Anyway, the sense was that Reeves had more or less righted the ship after Handley crashed it into the rocks. But they pushed Simms out the door in very sneaky fashion (it was actually 30 years ago yesterday) during the Rangers parade when no one was paying attention. So suddenly as fans you realized there was a changing of the guard at QB and it was Brown or Graham. Brown was an unknown, so there were hopes for him to play well and take the job over at QB. You have to remember, at the time it wasn't strange for a QB to sit for 2-3 (or more years) before they got their chance to play. So that Brown didn't play until 1994 after being picked 1st in the 1992 Supplemental Draft wasn't a red flag back then. Still, the sense was this was an entirely different team. Young didn't handle the salary cap well. They had their entire starting secondary leave in free agency. LT was gone. Simms was gone. So it was very much an unknown as to what was going to happen in 1994. I'd argue 1995 was worse because coming off a 6 game win streak to end 1994, we thought this team was ready to challenge Dallas. And they got curb stomped 35-0 on MNF in the opener and the season went into the toilet. Essentially...what you saw in 2023 was 1994 going into 1995.

Very well said. Many unknowns, but the one thing we knew was the strong OL and Hampton would give the Giants a dependable running game. They were deep in the backfield with Meggett, Tillman and Bunch. The rest of the team had a bunch of question marks.

Then gut punched with the simms release.

Then more body blows when the entire friggin secondary leaves town. We’re talking mark Collins, Greg Jackson and Myron guyton. These guys helped make up our very defensive identity.

Then Meggett and Hampton carry the team early on, caught some breaks, then the worst fucking penalty call ever against Chris Calloway on the road at New Orleans, the giants go on to lose very much on the backs of that penalty (and the Dave brown pick 6 mentioned earlier) and 7 losses in a row. Then they close out with 6 wins…

I was still the same asshole hopeless romatic nyg fan then as am I now and insisted 95 would build off 94’s season ending hot streak. Dave brown showed me something in that road win at Cleveland, December 94. Fucking schmuck…

For those that blocked it out or forgot, Calloway catches a deep pass I want to say 4th quarter, I want to say 3rd down no less. Catches it. Ruled a catch. Down by contact. Spikes the ball in celebratory fashion did not even come close to spiking it in the db’s vicinity. Ruled unsportsmanlike conduct catch is null and void and 3rd and long/impossible. Today wrs do that spike shit all that time, no flags.

In comment 16538635 djm said:

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Then gut punched with the simms release. Then more body blows when the entire friggin secondary leaves town. We’re talking mark Collins, Greg Jackson and Myron guyton. These guys helped make up our very defensive identity. Then Meggett and Hampton carry the team early on, caught some breaks, then the worst fucking penalty call ever against Chris Calloway on the road at New Orleans, the giants go on to lose very much on the backs of that penalty (and the Dave brown pick 6 mentioned earlier) and 7 losses in a row. Then they close out with 6 wins… I was still the same asshole hopeless romatic nyg fan then as am I now and insisted 95 would build off 94’s season ending hot streak. Dave brown showed me something in that road win at Cleveland, December 94. Fucking schmuck…

There was also a game in the ‘94 season against Pittsburgh where Brown ran in a QB scramble TD and it was overturned as a fumble despite the fact that he crossed the goal line with clear possession and the ball shifted in his grip when he came down on the turf. It was complete bullshit and cost them the game.

I always felt he came here and did a deliberate hatchet job on the roster that whipped his ass. He begged Simms and Taylor for another year then dumped them. fuck him.

While I'm at it.

In comment 16538484 Paulie Walnuts said:

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And the mood was destroyed the very next day when the Giants cut my all time favorite player, Phil Simms.

Same here. What a gut punch that was. I went from manic to depression in the space of 24 hours.

It was the first time in over a decade we were reading stories about the facade of team was cracking. CB Mark Collins was most vocal about the lack of leadership and creativity Handley and company were bringing to the team.

Reeves all but begged Young to come in and resurrect the Giants except all he did was make us Denver II and it was horrid. Dave Brown, as stated above, threw lollipops for the most part and ran up the middle on QB sneaks. He was a disaster with the football in his hand looking to pass.

There was one particular game I attended vs. the Eagles where the Giants got the ball late in the game down by a few points with time to win it. On one play, Dave Brown sat back in the pocket way to long and failed draft pick Mike Mamula hit him, he fumbled, the Eagles recovered and the Giants lost a heartbreaker. It was terrible.

Kerry Collins was indeed a breath of fresh air at QB when he entered the game later in the decade vs. the very same Eagles and helped us win a game with a TD to Ike Hilliard as one of the standout plays.

............

... was the day I stopped giving a sh!t, for about six years.

Never regained the level of interest I invested during the 80s. Probably just as well. I needed to grow up and get a life. It's just a f*cking game.

But let's get real: what exactly was Simms going to do on that 94 team at age 39? Throw to Arhtur Marshall and Chris Calloway? Granted, the Giants' schedule was pretty weak that season, but I have a hard time imagining some missed opportunity by releasing him. The problem is that their succession plan sucked. Those mid-90s teams would look a lot different if they took a flyer on Rich Gannon or Brad Johnson.

still makes me crazy to think about and there was a lot of crazy back then. In his prime LB who could rush, hit and cover. Yea, cut him. Great.

I was pissed Reeves let Mcaferty go and Pepper as well then brought in all his loser Denver cronies with him. I remember that Calloway penalty as well him spiking the ball! I believe we were in field goal range to take the lead. A tough loss followed by a couple more really tough losses in that losing streak.

In comment 16538763 Big Blue Blogger said:

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... was the day I stopped giving a sh!t, for about six years. Never regained the level of interest I invested during the 80s. Probably just as well. I needed to grow up and get a life. It's just a f*cking game.

Those were rough times. Tuna had left, LT hadn't been "LT" for quite awhile, cutting Phil - it seemed like the team had no clue what to do. Endless parade of mediocre at best QBs, retreads at many positions, poor drafting. Rudderless franchise at that time.

smoke and mirrors. They big playoff loss confirmed it.

Reeves had given us some hope in 1993 that the ship had been righted and while there was a significant rebuild in play, 1994 was not a terrible year. I can't recall another year like it - with three wins to open the season and then six wins to close the season! Dave Brown showed some things, though in hindsight he showed all of the flaws that would ultimately be his undoing.

Nevertheless, I was extremely upbeat going into the 1995 season and believed we would vie for a Super Bowl. And then I went to the opener at home agains the Cowboys and Emmitt Smith ran for a 60 yard touchdown on his very first carry of the season and I knew instantly that we were headed for disaster. It was exactly the same for me in 2017, when I attended the opener in Arlington TX and knew by halftime that my exuberant optimism going into the game after the 2016 playoff appearance was completely misplaced.

And then in 2023 it happened yet again on opening day against the Cowboys after making the playoffs in 2022. Only this time, perhaps because history has eerily repeated itself for this team, I was fully prepared for what turned out to be the worst opening day loss in franchise history. Which does not bode well for 2024. If it is anything like 1996 or 2018, we are headed for another disastrous year.

In comment 16538455 giantsFC said:

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We all got LT retiring, the writ8g was on the wall. BUT the Phil Simms cut was just mind boggling after the resurrected season he had. The wind was sucked out of me for sure Throw in Dan Reeves going with wobble wind ball brown over the more promising (yet late round draft pick) Kent Graham. And then cutting Kent Graham as the backup fora Tommy Maddox who at the time was terrible. It just seemed like the end was here. But hindsight, the post Simms era was nothing compared to the post Eli Manning era going on 5 years. Daniel Jones > Dave Brown/Danny Kannell. Rest of giants roster and decision making is 1994+ > 2019+ BY A LONG SHOT

Agreed. I never liked Reeves, and I especially couldn't stand him after we got exposed in that SF playoff game. I was so angry we cut Simms and I couldn't stand Dave Brown. I have to say once Fassel came in, at least the Giants became competitive and fun to watch again, especially after we signed Kerry Collins.

Lambuth_Special said:

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But let's get real: what exactly was Simms going to do on that 94 team at age 39?

Would the Giants have matched up with San Francisco and Dallas? Of course not. But with one more win, the '94 Giants would have entered the NFC playoffs as the #4 seed, with a wild card game at home.

I don't know whether Phil would have made it through another season, or whether he would have lifted the 9-7 Giants to 10-6 or better. He could no longer make every throw, and had suffered significant injuries in 1990 and 1992 after sitting behind Hostetler for most of 1991. On the other hand, he had shown in 1993 that he could adjust to diminished arm strength and be the game manager Reeves wanted. I think it's a reasonable bet that he could have won the games Brown and Graham did, and added a win against a mediocre/bad opponent like the Rams, Saints, Lions or Cardinals.

Cutting Phil was bad enough, though the end was near for him. Cutting him to make room for Dave Brown and cover Young's inept cap management was infuriating.

In comment 16538769 Lambuth_Special said:

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But let's get real: what exactly was Simms going to do on that 94 team at age 39? Throw to Arhtur Marshall and Chris Calloway? Granted, the Giants' schedule was pretty weak that season, but I have a hard time imagining some missed opportunity by releasing him. The problem is that their succession plan sucked. Those mid-90s teams would look a lot different if they took a flyer on Rich Gannon or Brad Johnson.

Yep, lot's of revisionist history here based on subsequent events.

Things started to go off track two years before when St. Bill upped and left suddenly after the draft and after all the coaching candidates had been hired. The team got old and don't forget it also got raided by free agency. Between the players who left in free agency and the players who got old and retired, there were a lot of key guys who went out the door and needed to be replaced all at once.

Reeves was Reeves. A Landry disciple who adopted all of his old coach's mannerisms and organizational skills and none of the creativity. Not a bad coach, but not one for a re-building team.