are with DJ's slow development but I can easily see why the front office liked him so much. Very similar in personality to Eli and teammates really seem to like him as a man. While not overly optimistic, I am really rooting hard for him to take the next step up in his development this year. He certainly puts in the work. How can you not root for this guy?
For him and the team. As noted, his Eli-like demeanor and leadership is absolutely part of the reason the team likes him.
Before we played AZ last year, an ex-Cards TE talked about how critical off-the-field things like that are (especially with the OL who he said should be sharing rooms and finishing each others sentences).
you guys lap up this offseason kumbaya stuff like it means something. I doubt any of it is going to help Daniel read defenses, progress past his first read, find the open receiver and not fling the ball into the dirt or over his head.
Jones is a qb out of central casting until he gets on the field during a game and then the casting is "Nightmare on Elm Street" half the time
Wasn't going to start another thread for this - but my wife and 6 month son landed back in Charlotte from NJ on Monday and we were waiting for our bags, and we saw DJ. I went up to him and said hello and my wife asked if he would take a pic with our son Brooks. He said absolutely and was super nice about it. Not sure how to upload a photo on here otherwise I would. But it was a great memory - will have to get it framed for the little guy!
I would imagine a lot of things seem debatable to you, but it's true: NO ONE IS ROOTING AGAINST DANIEL JONES.
If anything, his most outspoken critics are rooting hardest for him to improve. His supporters are the ones who seem satisfied with what he is already. That's not rooting, it's enabling.
I would imagine a lot of things seem debatable to you, but it's true: NO ONE IS ROOTING AGAINST DANIEL JONES.
If anything, his most outspoken critics are rooting hardest for him to improve. His supporters are the ones who seem satisfied with what he is already. That's not rooting, it's enabling.
Drew Lock
Tommy DeVito
Darius Slayton
Malik Nabers
Wan’Dale Robinson
Jalin Hyatt
Bryce Ford-Wheaton
Dennis Houston
Daniel Bellinger
Theo Johnson
Lawrence Cager
Dante Miller
you guys lap up this offseason kumbaya stuff like it means something. I doubt any of it is going to help Daniel read defenses, progress past his first read, find the open receiver and not fling the ball into the dirt or over his head.
Jones is a qb out of central casting until he gets on the field during a game and then the casting is "Nightmare on Elm Street" half the time
Absurdly immature, Rory. Thinking Daniel Jones isn't a very good QB, and rooting against him are two separate things. Many believe the first. I don't think I have seen anyone on this board doing the latter.
These are the types of emotional, divisive posts that make this board insufferable.
Wasn't going to start another thread for this - but my wife and 6 month son landed back in Charlotte from NJ on Monday and we were waiting for our bags, and we saw DJ. I went up to him and said hello and my wife asked if he would take a pic with our son Brooks. He said absolutely and was super nice about it. Not sure how to upload a photo on here otherwise I would. But it was a great memory - will have to get it framed for the little guy!
Very cool story, Ryan. I don't know how old Brooks is, but hopefully old enough to cherish that memory.
Wasn't going to start another thread for this - but my wife and 6 month son landed back in Charlotte from NJ on Monday and we were waiting for our bags, and we saw DJ. I went up to him and said hello and my wife asked if he would take a pic with our son Brooks. He said absolutely and was super nice about it. Not sure how to upload a photo on here otherwise I would. But it was a great memory - will have to get it framed for the little guy!
Very cool story, Ryan. I don't know how old Brooks is, but hopefully old enough to cherish that memory.
If Brooks was old enough to know who DJ was, he wouldn't have wanted a picture with him :) It says he's 6 months old, btw
Okay. I probably speak for 99.9% of BBI when I say no one is rooting against Jones, but there’s this belief among some that’s there this behemoth section of BBI rooting for him to fail. Spoiler alert…there isn’t. I hope he lights it up this fall and I look like a fool.
They are some of the most important players on the team right now, and DJ really needs to bond with them as well as his receivers.
While I agree with you about the need for O-line chemistry, I'm not sure how a glorified 7 on 7 passing camp would help in that area. To me, the way to increase O-line chemistry to for them to practice against competition (even if it is your own guys), not air
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
#Giants players at Daniel Jones’ QB/WR/TE/RB workout retreat to Lake Norman, N.C. and Charlotte area:
Jones
Drew Lock
Tommy DeVito
Darius Slayton
Malik Nabers
Wan’Dale Robinson
Jalin Hyatt
Bryce Ford-Wheaton
Dennis Houston
Daniel Bellinger
Theo Johnson
Lawrence Cager
Dante Miller
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
#Giants players at Daniel Jones’ QB/WR/TE/RB workout retreat to Lake Norman, N.C. and Charlotte area:
Jones
Drew Lock
Tommy DeVito
Darius Slayton
Malik Nabers
Wan’Dale Robinson
Jalin Hyatt
Bryce Ford-Wheaton
Dennis Houston
Daniel Bellinger
Theo Johnson
Lawrence Cager
Dante Miller
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
#Giants players at Daniel Jones’ QB/WR/TE/RB workout retreat to Lake Norman, N.C. and Charlotte area:
Jones
Drew Lock
Tommy DeVitoj
Darius Slayton
Malik Nabers
Wan’Dale Robinson
Jalin Hyatt
Bryce Ford-Wheaton
Dennis Houston
Daniel Bellinger
Theo Johnson
Lawrence Cager
Dante Miller
That’s a good showing. Most of the receivers. Would have liked a couple RB’s.
I would imagine a lot of things seem debatable to you, but it's true: NO ONE IS ROOTING AGAINST DANIEL JONES.
If anything, his most outspoken critics are rooting hardest for him to improve. His supporters are the ones who seem satisfied with what he is already. That's not rooting, it's enabling.
I want to burn the world down right now! This is the biggest accountability dodge I've ever read. You have never once saw any of the "outspoken critics" even entertain the possibility that DJ CAN improve, let alone root for him to do so! You want him gone. Period. Now that the truth of the current situation is settling in, maybe you are dialing that back a bit. I welcome that. But let's not get it twisted, bro bro. Y'all were calling for his head.
Wasn't going to start another thread for this - but my wife and 6 month son landed back in Charlotte from NJ on Monday and we were waiting for our bags, and we saw DJ. I went up to him and said hello and my wife asked if he would take a pic with our son Brooks. He said absolutely and was super nice about it. Not sure how to upload a photo on here otherwise I would. But it was a great memory - will have to get it framed for the little guy!
Very cool story, Ryan. I don't know how old Brooks is, but hopefully old enough to cherish that memory.
If Brooks was old enough to know who DJ was, he wouldn't have wanted a picture with him :) It says he's 6 months old, btw
Oh yeah, it does. I obviously missed it. Well maybe it's best he doesn't remember it?
It’s not a big deal, but interesting the 4th QB isn’t there.
You really sticking by the line that these people who post Jones Sucks every chance they get are rooting for him? There is legitimate criticism and there is incomprehensible hated for the only QB who has taken the team and to the playoffs and won a road playoff game since Eli and Eli only did it twice in a likely hall of fame career. In fact, Eli only won a playoff game twice in his career.
Don't strain credulity claiming there aren't a lot of people actively rooting against Danial Jones because they want to be right.
You really sticking by the line that these people who post Jones Sucks every chance they get are rooting for him? There is legitimate criticism and there is incomprehensible hated for the only QB who has taken the team and to the playoffs and won a road playoff game since Eli and Eli only did it twice in a likely hall of fame career. In fact, Eli only won a playoff game twice in his career.
Don't strain credulity claiming there aren't a lot of people actively rooting against Danial Jones because they want to be right.
Good lord, I can't believe there are people so in love with a mediocre QB who's seemingly on an endless scholarship cause he looks the part. Great. Every other team in the league hopes the Giants keep Jones for 10, no 15 YEARS. If you can't see what he is at this point, you're never gonna see it. And no one wants him to fail, they're just extremely dubious that he could or would EVER actually BE a top franchise QB.
I'm glad it so well attended. It speaks very well for those players.
I think something like 99.9% of Giants fans are rooting for them...& accounts a helluva lot who don't think he's all that good. And I fall into that camp, but I'm not fucking around when I write that I hope he morphs into an elite QB & tells me-with his on the field performance-& the Terps of the world to STFU. If he becomes an elite QB, that would solve a helluva lot of our problems. I'd love for it to happen. Do I expect it, in his 6th season? No, I don't. But I also hope I'm wrong.
Caring about what other people root for is pretty dumb, but there is a case to be made that rooting for Daniel is rooting for the Giants to stay a bad football team.
Terps, you know my thoughts on Jones-they mirror yours-but I think that graphic of him sucking in '19 is a tad unfair. He showed the makings of a potential good QB that year, TOs aside. & I know TOs aside might be like, 'Other than that Mrs. Kennedy, how was your time in Dallas?' but even Peyton Manning turned the ball over a lot his first year in Indy. & obviously I'm not comparing the two, but I think you get my point.
Ironically, 2019 was his sole year under Shurmur & I think there's merit to the idea that Garrett/Judge coached him up to be much more conservative with the rock, like Judge did in '22. But, as you pointed out, when they took off the training wheels in '23, he was awful. & I know the OL sucked. No one disputes that. But Jones didn't play well regardless & sure AF didn't live up to the coin he's making.
Well, here we go with year six. I'm crossing my fingers Nabers & a better OL means he'll ascend into a top level QB, but do I expect it? No.
I was already raising red flags towards the end of the 2019 season. If you removed the "I really want this guy to be good" glasses, you could see he was backup level at best.
Without diving too deep into the numbers and just using passer rating, Jones's passer rating exceeded that year's league average (90.4) in only 4 of the 12 games he started. Those 4 "good" games were against (defense ranking):
Tampa (29th)
Detroit (26th)
Jets (16th)
Washington (27th)
So he had four above average passing games in 2019; three were against some of the worst defenses in the league. And in these 4 games (his 4 best of the season) he fumbled an astounding 8 times, losing 4 of them.
He stinks, and he stunk in 2019. But he's our guy and we love him.
I would imagine a lot of things seem debatable to you, but it's true: NO ONE IS ROOTING AGAINST DANIEL JONES.
If anything, his most outspoken critics are rooting hardest for him to improve. His supporters are the ones who seem satisfied with what he is already. That's not rooting, it's enabling.
I want to burn the world down right now! This is the biggest accountability dodge I've ever read. You have never once saw any of the "outspoken critics" even entertain the possibility that DJ CAN improve, let alone root for him to do so! You want him gone. Period. Now that the truth of the current situation is settling in, maybe you are dialing that back a bit. I welcome that. But let's not get it twisted, bro bro. Y'all were calling for his head.
Fair rebuttal. I can't remember each '19 Giants game-the team sucked & I watched most games @ a bar with one eye on another game because of how bad we were-but I came out of that season thinking he could possibly be a good QB if he cleaned up his mistakes.
Well, it is now '24 & I think we're long past time to move on, but here we are. Obviously hoping for a miracle that he'll morph into something better, but not expecting it.
I do find some fans feelings about him really bizarre, as if he's some golden child that dare not be criticized or warrant any blame. I think most people who watch football just don't think he's a good QB. & I hate to regurgitate this, but that doesn't mean he's not a hard worker, good dude, or good teammate. It just means he's not a good QB. There are worse fates in life.
Fair rebuttal. I can't remember each '19 Giants game-the team sucked & I watched most games @ a bar with one eye on another game because of how bad we were-but I came out of that season thinking he could possibly be a good QB if he cleaned up his mistakes.
Well, it is now '24 & I think we're long past time to move on, but here we are. Obviously hoping for a miracle that he'll morph into something better, but not expecting it.
I do find some fans feelings about him really bizarre, as if he's some golden child that dare not be criticized or warrant any blame. I think most people who watch football just don't think he's a good QB. & I hate to regurgitate this, but that doesn't mean he's not a hard worker, good dude, or good teammate. It just means he's not a good QB. There are worse fates in life.
Accepting that Jones sucks is to accept some harder truths:
1. The Giants are not competing for anything real in 2024 and probably 2025
2. Schoen and Daboll might not be as good at their jobs as we hope
3. The Giants care too much about things that have nothing to do with winning football games
If the situation were as simple as moving on from Jones, things wouldn't be bleak. Moving on from quarterbacks is as simple and possible as it's been in decades. But accepting that the Giants don't want to move on from Jones is accepting a series of far shittier possibilities regarding this organization. No one wants to do that.
Caring about what other people root for is pretty dumb, but there is a case to be made that rooting for Daniel is rooting for the Giants to stay a bad football team.
Do you put this much time and effort into your job?
Let me rephrase the question..
Does your employer know they are paying you to do nothing all day but to feed your obsession here on BBI?
The Darren Waller example is almost too perfect to illustrate the strangeness with Jones sensitivity.
I didn't want Waller back. I thought he was too expensive, not very durable, and unlikely ever to be a good return on investment. I don't hate Waller. I just didn't want him to come back. If he had, I would have been disappointed. When the season started I would root for him to do well if he was a Giant.
Caring about what other people root for is pretty dumb, but there is a case to be made that rooting for Daniel is rooting for the Giants to stay a bad football team.
Do you put this much time and effort into your job?
Let me rephrase the question..
Does your employer know they are paying you to do nothing all day but to feed your obsession here on BBI?
has a ton invested in Jones failure so there is no doubt in my mind he is rooting against him...
I haven't made any bets one way or the other so I have nothing invested.
I am rooting for the Giants to become a decent football team, and I'm pretty confident Jones can't be a good NFL QB so I'm rooting for him to choose to retire for no reason. This organization is too stupid to handle the issue themselves.
Caring about what other people root for is pretty dumb, but there is a case to be made that rooting for Daniel is rooting for the Giants to stay a bad football team.
Do you put this much time and effort into your job?
Let me rephrase the question..
Does your employer know they are paying you to do nothing all day but to feed your obsession here on BBI?
What a dumbass post. Go tell your employer about your habits during work first.
you guys lap up this offseason kumbaya stuff like it means something. I doubt any of it is going to help Daniel read defenses, progress past his first read, find the open receiver and not fling the ball into the dirt or over his head.
Jones is a qb out of central casting until he gets on the field during a game and then the casting is "Nightmare on Elm Street" half the time
Seasons would be unprecedented in the modern NFL. Drew Brees was a complete outlier as a late starter and he was playing really good football in his fourth season.
And what if Jones is good in 2024? So what? He improved in 2022 and that led to the train wreck of his 2023 season. A decent 2024 will mean nothing for 2025.
I think something like 99.9% of Giants fans are rooting for them...& accounts a helluva lot who don't think he's all that good. And I fall into that camp, but I'm not fucking around when I write that I hope he morphs into an elite QB & tells me-with his on the field performance-& the Terps of the world to STFU. If he becomes an elite QB, that would solve a helluva lot of our problems. I'd love for it to happen. Do I expect it, in his 6th season? No, I don't. But I also hope I'm wrong.
No, several had made the argument that it is better for the team if DJ fails and so they are rooting for it
Some are on this thread.
One started a thread on the topic promoting the idea.
This is a thread about some good things that DJ is doing. Some folks have come in here to shit on Jones and also to shit on people that are supporting him.
I have zero problem rooting against Daniel Jones having a middling season that provides him more plausible deniability. If that makes me an asshole, it makes me a smart asshole.
I have zero problem rooting against Daniel Jones having a middling season that provides him more plausible deniability. If that makes me an asshole, it makes me a smart asshole.
Not that it matters what anybody roots for, but in order, these would be the two best scenarios for me:
1) Jones flips a switch and suddenly becomes an upper tier NFL QB (4000 yards, 25-30 TDs, 7.5 Y/A)
2) Jones completely flops and the Giants have no other choice but to move on.
Anything between those two options is purgatory, because evidence suggests the Giants will look for reasons to keep him rather than vice versa.
bunch of young players, so good to see them get together and work on establishing more chemistry.
Probably some who root against Jones having success. Most of those were the same one pushing to draft Willis at pick 5 or 7.
That's an unfair criticism. Willis has only played in the NFL for 2 years. Everyone knows that you have to wait until year 6 or 7 to wait for a breakout to truly be able to evaluate a QB.
I believe every member of this site wants Daniel Jones to have an outstanding season, and for the Giants to compete for a championship. That's what I want.
What I don't want is another season that produces more questions than answers, and the experiment to drag on.
I'll be shocked if Jones magically develops into a quarterback that puts the Giants in contention for a championship. The same level of shock I'd feel if Azeez Ojulari develops into an All Pro pass rusher. I think those odds are about the same.
This isn't a particularly difficult or exotic view point to understand.
it being unfair Blue. Pretty easy to see he was not a top 10 QB pick imv. I don't like how the Giants have handled the QB situation the last two years but good to see they didn't make that mistake with pick 5 or 7.
it being unfair Blue. Pretty easy to see he was not a top 10 QB pick imv. I don't like how the Giants have handled the QB situation the last two years but good to see they didn't make that mistake with pick 5 or 7.
It was a joke about how lots of people on here are very comfortable calling every other QB bad after 2 years, but Jones needs nearly a decade as an unquestioned starter to fairly evaluate him.
Malik Willis sucks, and would have been a mistake to draft at 5 or 7. Similarly, Daniel Jones sucks and it was a mistake to draft him at 6. Both can be (and are) true
Accepting that Jones sucks is to accept some harder truths:
3. The Giants care too much about things that have nothing to do with winning football games
This point needs to be repeated, and often. Although I wouldn't use "too much" about the non-winning things the Giants care about, I'd say they care most about making money for the franchise. And you know what? The anxiety about Jones is going to make a ton of money for the Giants. Just look how many on BBI post about it, and think about how many fans will watch the games, go to the games, buy merchandise, etc.
Jones is a money-maker, and not because he's a good QB. Is he the best money-maker possible? Probably not, but he's not bad for business.
People already changed the tone of thread by calling out what others should and should not be rooting for.
That is not what happened.
No, that's literally what happened. One of BBI's resident twerps offered that up fives posts into thread. Which turned the direction of the conversation.
If the Giants built the offense around Parris Campbell and gave him $160M we'd all want them to acknowledge the error and move on. For some reason that doesn't apply to young Daniel.
I am not rooting for Daniel Jones. I am rooting for the Giants. I am rooting for them to wake up from this nightmare and do better.
If the Giants built the offense around Parris Campbell and gave him $160M we'd all want them to acknowledge the error and move on. For some reason that doesn't apply to young Daniel.
I am not rooting for Daniel Jones. I am rooting for the Giants. I am rooting for them to wake up from this nightmare and do better.
If it didn’t didn’t apply to “young Daniel” then they wouldn’t have tried to get Maye
"but there is a case to be made that rooting for Daniel is rooting for the Giants to stay a bad football team."
Why not say that you are rooting for Jones to play badly so that the Giants acquire a new QB?
There is no rationale for a Giants fan to celebrate Jones playing poorly. There is winning and losing. There is no tomorrow, there is today.
If Jones plays well and the Giants win that is the best outcome.
Your disdain for Jones clouds your judgment and is irrational. If the Giants win with Jones, that is all a fan can hope for.
Nobody believes that Jones is a great QB. But if he can be a winning QB that would be great.
He has already demonstrated that he can take a team to the playoffs and win a playoff game. If he can do that and more I would be satisfied.
I cannot imagine how badly you would feel if the Giants were to win the Super Bowl with Jones.
Even if they went after Maye, they failed to get him
About as tired as I am of the multiple DJ threads with the same people literally saying the exact same things
Of which you are under no obligation to participate.
You're contribution to this site resembles a broken chat bot. You're bordering on Lines of Scrimmage Great Destruction territory.
We could be debating the color of the turf and odds are your response would be "But the Giants considered trading for Maye."
Many of us don't find a compelling difference between Daniel Jones, and any other mediocre-to-bad player that's passed through the halls over the last decade.
I didn't see the uproar and fandom litmus tests applied to Nate Solder, Kenny Golladay, and Darren Waller. All guys who had more glimpses of quality play before ultimately sucking after signing a big deal with the Giants.
Why is it OK to be happy those guys are gone and not want Daniel Jones gone?
About as tired as I am of the multiple DJ threads with the same people literally saying the exact same things
Of which you are under no obligation to participate.
You're contribution to this site resembles a broken chat bot. You're bordering on Lines of Scrimmage Great Destruction territory.
We could be debating the color of the turf and odds are your response would be "But the Giants considered trading for Maye."
Many of us don't find a compelling difference between Daniel Jones, and any other mediocre-to-bad player that's passed through the halls over the last decade.
I didn't see the uproar and fandom litmus tests applied to Nate Solder, Kenny Golladay, and Darren Waller. All guys who had more glimpses of quality play before ultimately sucking after signing a big deal with the Giants.
Why is it OK to be happy those guys are gone and not want Daniel Jones gone?
Nor are you under any obligation to respond to my posts either
If you don’t like what I have to say don’t respond as opposed to consistently taking personnel shots at me
Reflects more poorly on you that you choose to take the personal route
Has admitted in the past rooting against jones and for the Giants to lose with him as QB.
He is the .1% rooting against Jones. He may not admit it but it’s an absolute fact.
I am rooting for him not to play for the Giants anymore. My interpretation of being a Giants fan is wanting them to have good players and win. I don't want them to have bad players and lose. I don't know why that bothers you or why you clearly care so much about what I root for. I don't care what you root for. In fact if you didn't follow me around so much I wouldn't notice you at all.
About as tired as I am of the multiple DJ threads with the same people literally saying the exact same things
Of which you are under no obligation to participate.
You're contribution to this site resembles a broken chat bot. You're bordering on Lines of Scrimmage Great Destruction territory.
We could be debating the color of the turf and odds are your response would be "But the Giants considered trading for Maye."
Many of us don't find a compelling difference between Daniel Jones, and any other mediocre-to-bad player that's passed through the halls over the last decade.
I didn't see the uproar and fandom litmus tests applied to Nate Solder, Kenny Golladay, and Darren Waller. All guys who had more glimpses of quality play before ultimately sucking after signing a big deal with the Giants.
Why is it OK to be happy those guys are gone and not want Daniel Jones gone?
Nor are you under any obligation to respond to my posts either
If you don’t like what I have to say don’t respond as opposed to consistently taking personnel shots at me
Reflects more poorly on you that you choose to take the personal route
Pointing out that you repeat yourself, and inject the same point in debates completely out of context is not a personal shot at you.
That's a factual criticism of the content your are contributing to the conversation.
I'll gladly debate football with you. For starters, what does Maye have to do with how Terps and I feel about Daniel Jones?
Giants recover from the great destruction of the LoS under Reese the Giants QB will benefit. Whoever that is.
Pretty impressed Christian hasn't told another fairy tale story about himself on this thread. I guess he recognized the red flags in that story of his.
About as tired as I am of the multiple DJ threads with the same people literally saying the exact same things
Of which you are under no obligation to participate.
You're contribution to this site resembles a broken chat bot. You're bordering on Lines of Scrimmage Great Destruction territory.
We could be debating the color of the turf and odds are your response would be "But the Giants considered trading for Maye."
Many of us don't find a compelling difference between Daniel Jones, and any other mediocre-to-bad player that's passed through the halls over the last decade.
I didn't see the uproar and fandom litmus tests applied to Nate Solder, Kenny Golladay, and Darren Waller. All guys who had more glimpses of quality play before ultimately sucking after signing a big deal with the Giants.
Why is it OK to be happy those guys are gone and not want Daniel Jones gone?
Nor are you under any obligation to respond to my posts either
If you don’t like what I have to say don’t respond as opposed to consistently taking personnel shots at me
Reflects more poorly on you that you choose to take the personal route
Pointing out that you repeat yourself, and inject the same point in debates completely out of context is not a personal shot at you.
That's a factual criticism of the content your are contributing to the conversation.
I'll gladly debate football with you. For starters, what does Maye have to do with how Terps and I feel about Daniel Jones?
The point was made that the Giants are happy with Jones…. Was it not?
It is more then fair to counter that point of view and say that if they were happy with him, then they wouldn’t have tried to draft his replacement whether it be Maye or anybody else
I agree with you and others that we need to move on from him….that is not up for debate
I differ with you on the organizations view point on him and am using the Maye example to try and back up my opinion
So you are rooting for the Giants to Lose so that the Giants are forced to obtain a new QB?
Do you cringe every time Jones completes a pass and celebrates his sacks?
Will you cease to be a Giant fan if the Giants win the NFC East and two playoff games next year?
I cannot fathom a Giant fan starting a season hoping they lose. I can't comprehend that thinking.
Your hatred for Jones is greater than your love of the team.
I can't comprehend pretending bad players are good just because they play on the team I root for.
I don't hate Jones. I hate entering a season knowing it's going to take an alignment of the stars just to win 9 games because the team is married to a terrible QB.
I'll gladly debate football with you. For starters, what does Maye have to do with how Terps and I feel about Daniel Jones?
The point was made that the Giants are happy with Jones…. Was it not?
The point is that when some fans want the Giants to cut ties with Jones, that's allegedly bad fandom.
Quote:
I am not rooting for Daniel Jones
Go Terps : 11:28 am : link : reply
If the Giants built the offense around Parris Campbell and gave him $160M we'd all want them to acknowledge the error and move on. For some reason that doesn't apply to young Daniel.
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Exactly. No one hates Jones and no one is rooting for him to fail. He's done that all on his own.
And no matter how the Giants really feel about him, they keep voting with their actions.
People already changed the tone of thread by calling out what others should and should not be rooting for.
That is not what happened.
No, that's literally what happened. One of BBI's resident twerps offered that up fives posts into thread. Which turned the direction of the conversation.
wow talk about a snowflake...
... That is a horrible stretch.
Some of the posters here simply want to reiterate that they believe they're smarter than everybody else and that no matter what, everybody else needs to believe that Daniel Jones needs to fail.
You're either rooting for him or you're not... Unless you literally want him to be mediocre.
Where passion is present, so is the real possibility of hate.
Many fans are quite passionate about sports. If a fan sees a particular player as being in the way of them enjoying their sport(s) then I can realistically see them actually 'hating' a player. The thing is, most would not dare admit it.
Do I think some fans actually hate Jones? Yep. I think there is a realistic possibility some of those fans participate in this forum.
I do agree that critiquing a player does not necessarily mean hating a player. I also think the labeling of hate goes too far and is often over-used. Each fan knows if their dislike of a player has drifted into actually hating them or not.
wow talk about a snowflake...
... That is a horrible stretch.
Some of the posters here simply want to reiterate that they believe they're smarter than everybody else and that no matter what, everybody else needs to believe that Daniel Jones needs to fail.
You're either rooting for him or you're not... Unless you literally want him to be mediocre.
It seems you are trying to have it both ways.
No need to get pissy. You made a simple provable mistake and I showed you the evidence.
As far as what other posters need, I'm not in the business of divining those intentions and I'm pretty sure you're not very good at it either.
Let's try and debate on the statements people have actually made. That's difficult enough given the venue, without treading into mind reading.
For me, my wishes are clear. I want Jones to play great football. I don't expect that, and based on his past don't believe that will happen.
If he doesn't play great football, I'd prefer he fail unequivocally so the Giants can move on.
no Giants fan rooted for the Giants to lose. Why? Because college football wasn't on every station and the majority of fans didn't know most eligible draftees or the great players. And we loved our team regardless of their record. Sure we got pissed. I lost sleep many nights and went to work mad for a few days.
Now we have casual fans who think they are draft experts. The fans and other so-called experts believe we should have taken JJ, Penix or Nix this year. Go-Terps said "Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB." Seriously Terps? What about all the QB's drafted during this time who are not franhise QBs. There are far more misses than hits not to mention coaches who don't know how to develop a QB or the turnover of coaches. And other factors that make or break a QB such as the talent around them, injuries etc.
Life is too short to hope for next year or the year after. Some of us won't be on the planet next year. Too bad we can't all act like HopeJ. I will root for the Giants and DJ8 to win no matter what. And I'm not wasting my bosses time since I'm retired. I'm going to go play with my grandson since this palace is so freakin divisive and negative.
At least I don't lose sleep anymore or act like a fool over a game I don't have any control over.
By the way, I remember when we (BBI) drove off Kent Grahams family. Was it this bad then?! I don't know. No wonder BB56 stays away from here so often.
Do I think some fans actually hate Jones? Yep. I think there is a realistic possibility some of those fans participate in this forum.
Short of personally hating him, I hate basically everything about him as a Giant.
I hate how little he plays, I hate how lost he looks on the football field, I hate how much losing he's been a part of. I hate how much the Giants appear paralyzed in making a change.
wow talk about a snowflake...
... That is a horrible stretch.
Some of the posters here simply want to reiterate that they believe they're smarter than everybody else and that no matter what, everybody else needs to believe that Daniel Jones needs to fail.
You're either rooting for him or you're not... Unless you literally want him to be mediocre.
It seems you are trying to have it both ways.
No need to get pissy. You made a simple provable mistake and I showed you the evidence.
As far as what other posters need, I'm not in the business of divining those intentions and I'm pretty sure you're not very good at it either.
Let's try and debate on the statements people have actually made. That's difficult enough given the venue, without treading into mind reading.
For me, my wishes are clear. I want Jones to play great football. I don't expect that, and based on his past don't believe that will happen.
If he doesn't play great football, I'd prefer he fail unequivocally so the Giants can move on.
That's fair, and you're right, my apologies.
I just wish that when there is a thread that is clearly discussing something positive about Jones that it might just stay that way.
There are too many people that need to remind themselves that they are more important than the discussion.
The threads become about posters rather than the OP.
Let's try and debate on the statements people have actually made. That's difficult enough given the venue, without treading into mind reading.
For me, my wishes are clear. I want Jones to play great football. I don't expect that, and based on his past don't believe that will happen.
If he doesn't play great football, I'd prefer he fail unequivocally so the Giants can move on.
That's fair, and you're right, my apologies.
I just wish that when there is a thread that is clearly discussing something positive about Jones that it might just stay that way.
There are too many people that need to remind themselves that they are more important than the discussion.
The threads become about posters rather than the OP.
You and I are always good, you are one of my favorite BBIers and I thoroughly respect you and your knowledge of football.
against him have a weird obsession with wanting to be "right."
Nothing would make happier than being wrong about Jones. But this is the same logic as being wrong about Solder, Golladay, or Waller.
I wanted them to succeed, but they repeatedly fell short.
The Giants had the good sense to cut ties with Golladay as quickly as possible. They didn't have that good sense with Solder.
I will root for the miraculous this year with Jones because he's on the roster. But I will not root for mediocrity that will increase the odds of more mediocrity.
Now we have casual fans who think they are draft experts. The fans and other so-called experts believe we should have taken JJ, Penix or Nix this year. Go-Terps said "Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB." Seriously Terps? What about all the QB's drafted during this time who are not franhise QBs. There are far more misses than hits not to mention coaches who don't know how to develop a QB or the turnover of coaches. And other factors that make or break a QB such as the talent around them, injuries etc.
Apparently life isn't too short to make excuses for a QB drafted #6 overall who is going to cost $47 million against the cap this year.
What available QBs would you have drafted last year?
What available QB would you have drafted in 2023?
What are your credentials to make the evaluation?
Why should I trust your judgment?
Did you play college football, perhaps you played QB?
What are the metrics that you use to evaluate a QB?
This is all b...t
I can't stand hearing armchair QBs who have no clue talking as if they are experts. You know more than the coaches, more than the GM.
Aren't you the one who contended that Taylor was a better QB than Jones?
Didn't you say that the Giants should sign Wilson?
I am not defending Jones but there are worse options out there. I hope that Jones turns it around and has a great year. I hope that the Giants win the Super Bowl.
I've been wrong on some, right on others. There's a search function that allows you to go back in the archives if you want to read my past posts. If you agree with my opinions, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine too.
But there is one key thing that is absolutely not a matter of opinion: for the last decade the Giants have been one of the very worst run organizations in the league. I believe the Giants' unconditional love for young Daniel is just the latest in a long line of symptoms telling us what the disease infecting the Giants is: incompetent ownership.
against him have a weird obsession with wanting to be "right."
Nothing would make happier than being wrong about Jones. But this is the same logic as being wrong about Solder, Golladay, or Waller.
I wanted them to succeed, but they repeatedly fell short.
The Giants had the good sense to cut ties with Golladay as quickly as possible. They didn't have that good sense with Solder.
I will root for the miraculous this year with Jones because he's on the roster. But I will not root for mediocrity that will increase the odds of more mediocrity.
They were never cutting ties with Solder. His family situation was too public.
and the team will get better production from their QB, whoever it is. Look at all the lousy QBs that have their best game of the year against the Giants. On paper, the Giants should have better OL play. If that happens Jones will have better stats than previous seasons.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
and the team will get better production from their QB, whoever it is. Look at all the lousy QBs that have their best game of the year against the Giants. On paper, the Giants should have better OL play. If that happens Jones will have better stats than previous seasons.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
Do I think some fans actually hate Jones? Yep. I think there is a realistic possibility some of those fans participate in this forum.
Short of personally hating him, I hate basically everything about him as a Giant.
I hate how little he plays, I hate how lost he looks on the football field, I hate how much losing he's been a part of. I hate how much the Giants appear paralyzed in making a change.
That is an understandable position. Personally, I think the term 'hate' gets used too often to describe things we simply don't like, BUT that is neither here or there and only my POV.
and the team will get better production from their QB, whoever it is. Look at all the lousy QBs that have their best game of the year against the Giants. On paper, the Giants should have better OL play. If that happens Jones will have better stats than previous seasons.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
Therein lies the problem. Let's assume everything you say is true, and Jones does have a decent statistical year.
Does anyone realistically think that the Giants as an organization are going to reach the conclusion that you (and many of us) have regarding a championship?
Like many posters here, the organization tends to see any signs of progress and evidence that "the arrow is pointing up".
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
Speaking of posters who have openly admitted they have quit rooting for the Giants. You’re a “true” Giants fan… lol
The President of the GTFC. Radar went up really quick. And LMAO - you calling anyone a troll or any derogatory term.
and the team will get better production from their QB, whoever it is. Look at all the lousy QBs that have their best game of the year against the Giants. On paper, the Giants should have better OL play. If that happens Jones will have better stats than previous seasons.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
Therein lies the problem. Let's assume everything you say is true, and Jones does have a decent statistical year.
Does anyone realistically think that the Giants as an organization are going to reach the conclusion that you (and many of us) have regarding a championship?
Like many posters here, the organization tends to see any signs of progress and evidence that "the arrow is pointing up".
So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
I'd say that's a hell of a season that I for sure didn't see coming, and that in doing so he bought himself 2025 for sure.
What would YOU do if those numbers are 3200 and 19?
Same thing I would have done last year. Draft a QB. Unfortunately we didn’t.
And FYI, I do not believe he will reach my numbers - I was only speak hypotheticals. However - I do expect him to play better but to a level worth keeping.
So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
I'd say that's a hell of a season that I for sure didn't see coming, and that in doing so he bought himself 2025 for sure.
What would YOU do if those numbers are 3200 and 19?
Same thing I would have done last year. Draft a QB. Unfortunately we didn’t.
And FYI, I do not believe he will reach my numbers - I was only speak hypotheticals. However - I do expect him to play better but to a level worth keeping.
Fair. Two questions, then.
1) What is that level, in your estimation?
2) Do you think the Giants would view my hypothetical numbers the same way you do?
On the latter, I have my doubts. That's why this conversation matters. I believe that as an organization they would see that as enough improvement coming off ACL surgery to give him another year - and that I would absolutely hate.
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
Speaking of posters who have openly admitted they have quit rooting for the Giants. You’re a “true” Giants fan… lol
The President of the GTFC. Radar went up really quick. And LMAO - you calling anyone a troll or any derogatory term.
Insults are the primary tool of the defeated. That and changing your handle as often as necessary to dodge accountability for being consistently dead wrong.
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
resume of any QB that has been an unchallenged starter for 5 straight seasons (about to become 6) with the team that draft him.
Justin Fields got 2 years
Kenny Pickett got 1 year
Mac Jones got 2 years
Zac Wilson got 2 years
Trey Lance got 4 games
Baker Mayfield got 4 years
Josh Rosen got 1 year
What has Daniel Jones shown on the field on game days that merits an unchallenged NFL starting QB job for 6 seasons? It's infuriating to a large section of the Giants fan base that because the owners "like" him Daniel Jones is treated like a tenured college professor regardless of his resume.
In 2022, the year that made him 80 million guaranteed dollars, by any measure Daniel Jones was an average at best QB. The other 4 years he's played for the Giants he's been a bottom 10 or bottom 5 QB by any measure.
Name another team in the NFL that would have Daniel Jones as their unchallenged starter in year 6 with his resume coming off a second neck and ACL injuries. It's NFL football malpractice. We can't fly planes over the stadium anymore so we vent on BBI.
resume of any QB that has been an unchallenged starter for 5 straight seasons (about to become 6) with the team that draft him.
Justin Fields got 2 years
Kenny Pickett got 1 year
Mac Jones got 2 years
Zac Wilson got 2 years
Trey Lance got 4 games
Baker Mayfield got 4 years
Josh Rosen got 1 year
What has Daniel Jones shown on the field on game days that merits an unchallenged NFL starting QB job for 6 seasons? It's infuriating to a large section of the Giants fan base that because the owners "like" him Daniel Jones is treated like a tenured college professor regardless of his resume.
In 2022, the year that made him 80 million guaranteed dollars, by any measure Daniel Jones was an average at best QB. The other 4 years he's played for the Giants he's been a bottom 10 or bottom 5 QB by any measure.
Name another team in the NFL that would have Daniel Jones as their unchallenged starter in year 6 with his resume coming off a second neck and ACL injuries. It's NFL football malpractice. We can't fly planes over the stadium anymore so we vent on BBI.
Exactly. I would expect HardTruth to be educating this board as we go forward with FACTS comparing quarterbacks with 60 or more starts in NFL history. Not emotional pleas, laughable insults or trolling nonsense. I think you will be hard pressed to find any other quarterback in NFL history who has performed as poorly as DJ has given a six year starting runway and seemingly limitless "scholarship" support to try to achieve success in this league.
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL.
Wow, you are 100% delusional, don't know a thing about football history or just trying to look like an idiot.
Daniel Jones 62 TDs (not including rushing) 40 INTs, 85 rating.
62 TDs and 40 INTs, plus the rushing TDs, a playoff win... it's not top 100 in NFL history but it ain't anywhere near the bottom. In fact in the game's history it's WAY closer to the top than the bottom.
QBR for a few players behind DJ:
23 Rich Gannon 84.71
24 Marc Bulger 84.41
25 Jim Kelly* 84.39
26 Jay Cutler 84.03
27 Mark Brunell 83.99
28 Roger Staubach* 83.42
29 Matthew Stafford 82.79
30 Steve McNair 82.76
31 Eli Manning 82.71
32 Brian Griese 82.70
33 Neil Lomax 82.68
34 Sonny Jurgensen* 82.62
35 Len Dawson* 82.56
36 Jason Campbell 82.52
37 Brad Johnson 82.50
38 Matt Hasselbeck 82.19
39 Ken Anderson 81.86
40 Bernie Kosar 81.83
41 Neil O'Donnell 81.82
42 Danny White 81.71
43 Troy Aikman* 81.62
44 Dave Krieg 81.50
45 Randall Cunningham 81.47
46 Jake Delhomme 81.35
47 Boomer Esiason 81.06
48 Warren Moon* 80.90
49 Michael Vick 80.59
50 Jeff Hostetler 80.48
51 Bart Starr* 80.47
52 Ken O'Brien 80.44
53 Jeff George 80.42
54 Matt Cassel 80.39
55 Fran Tarkenton* 80.35
56 Steve Beuerlein 80.32
57 Dan Fouts* 80.23
58 John Elway* 79.86
59 Josh Freeman 79.77
60 Kyle Orton 79.74
61 Tony Eason 79.72
62 Elvis Grbac 79.65
63 Alex Smith 79.14
64 Chris Chandler 79.12
65 Mark Rypien 78.93
66 Byron Leftwich 78.85
67 Jim Everett 78.59
68 Aaron Brooks 78.53
69 Phil Simms 78.48
70 Bert Jones 78.21
71 Johnny Unitas* 78.20
72T Jim McMahon 78.17
72T Otto Graham* 78.17
74 Jeff Blake 78.03
75 Bobby Hebert 78.00
76 Frank Ryan 77.61
77 Jim Harbaugh 77.60
78 Jon Kitna 77.41
79 Joe Theismann 77.37
80 Charlie Batch 77.22
81 Bob Griese* 77.14
82 Jay Fiedler 77.13
83 Drew Bledsoe 77.06
84 Bill Kenney 76.98
85 Ryan Fitzpatrick 76.85
86 Erik Kramer 76.64
87 Gary Danielson 76.58
88 Doug Flutie 76.34
89 Stan Humphries 75.83
90 Wade Wilson 75.57
91 Steve Bartkowski 75.44
92 Ken Stabler 75.31
93 Scott Mitchell 75.28
94 Steve Bono 75.27
95 Tim Couch 75.14
96 Norm Van Brocklin* 75.07
97 Sid Luckman* 75.01
98 Vinny Testaverde 75.00
99 Chris Miller 74.93
100 David Carr 74.89
101 Don Meredith 74.84
102 Brian Sipe 74.79
103 Jake Plummer 74.61
104 Roman Gabriel 74.29
105T Gus Frerotte 74.24
105T Steve DeBerg 74.24
107 Earl Morrall 74.09
108 Kerry Collins 73.76
109 Y.A. Tittle* 73.65
110 Craig Morton 73.52
111 Rodney Peete 73.30
112 Don Majkowski 72.95
113T Daryle Lamonica 72.94
113T Greg Landry 72.94
115 Ron Jaworski 72.78
116 Tommy Kramer 72.77
117 Tony Banks 72.36
118 Bubby Brister 72.28
119 John Brodie 72.27
120 Milt Plum 72.22
121 Sammy Baugh* 72.21
122 Billy Wade 72.19
123 Mark Sanchez 71.70
124 Jay Schroeder 71.68
125 Billy Kilmer 71.56
126 Bill Munson 71.49
127 Rex Grossman 71.36
128 Lynn Dickey 70.94
129 Terry Bradshaw* 70.92
130 Kordell Stewart 70.69
131 Bill Nelsen 70.25
132 Trent Dilfer 70.18
133 Vince Ferragamo 70.08
134 Steve Grogan 69.61
135 Kyle Boller 69.54
136 Doug Williams 69.39
137 Joey Harrington 69.38
138 Charley Johnson 69.21
139 Mike Tomczak 68.91
140 Eric Hipple 68.68
141 Joe Ferguson 68.45
142 Charlie Conerly 68.25
143 Dave Brown 67.89
144 Billy Joe Tolliver 67.74
145 Marc Wilson 67.70
146 Tom Flores 67.58
147 Richard Todd 67.57
148 Jim Plunkett 67.45
149 John Hadl 67.41
150 Jim Zorn 67.28
151 Archie Manning 67.10
152 Jim Hart 66.56
153 Norm Snead 65.54
154 Joe Namath* 65.46
155 Rick Mirer 63.53
156 Bobby Layne* 63.38
157 Jack Trudeau 63.32
158 Mike Livingston 63.27
159 Mike Pagel 63.26
160 Ed Brown 62.77
161 Mark Malone 61.89
162 Bob Waterfield* 61.58
163 Eddie LeBaron 61.43
164 George Blanda* 60.65
165 Babe Parilli 59.59
166 Dan Pastorini 59.06
167 Jack Kemp 57.35
168 Tobin Rote 56.79
169 Cotton Davidson 54.88
170 Mike Phipps 52.63
171 Frank Tripucka
In comment 16544371 4xchamps said:
[quote] In comment 16544314 The Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 16544159 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 16544142 Archer said:
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL.
Wow, you are 100% delusional, don't know a thing about football history or just trying to look like an idiot.
Daniel Jones 62 TDs (not including rushing) 40 INTs, 85 rating.
62 TDs and 40 INTs, plus the rushing TDs, a playoff win... it's not top 100 in NFL history but it ain't anywhere near the bottom. In fact in the game's history it's WAY closer to the top than the bottom.
QBR for a few players behind DJ:
23 Rich Gannon 84.71
24 Marc Bulger 84.41
25 Jim Kelly* 84.39
26 Jay Cutler 84.03
27 Mark Brunell 83.99
28 Roger Staubach* 83.42
29 Matthew Stafford 82.79
30 Steve McNair 82.76
31 Eli Manning 82.71
32 Brian Griese 82.70
33 Neil Lomax 82.68
34 Sonny Jurgensen* 82.62
35 Len Dawson* 82.56
36 Jason Campbell 82.52
37 Brad Johnson 82.50
38 Matt Hasselbeck 82.19
39 Ken Anderson 81.86
40 Bernie Kosar 81.83
41 Neil O'Donnell 81.82
42 Danny White 81.71
43 Troy Aikman* 81.62
44 Dave Krieg 81.50
45 Randall Cunningham 81.47
46 Jake Delhomme 81.35
47 Boomer Esiason 81.06
48 Warren Moon* 80.90
49 Michael Vick 80.59
50 Jeff Hostetler 80.48
51 Bart Starr* 80.47
52 Ken O'Brien 80.44
53 Jeff George 80.42
54 Matt Cassel 80.39
55 Fran Tarkenton* 80.35
56 Steve Beuerlein 80.32
57 Dan Fouts* 80.23
58 John Elway* 79.86
59 Josh Freeman 79.77
60 Kyle Orton 79.74
61 Tony Eason 79.72
62 Elvis Grbac 79.65
63 Alex Smith 79.14
64 Chris Chandler 79.12
65 Mark Rypien 78.93
66 Byron Leftwich 78.85
67 Jim Everett 78.59
68 Aaron Brooks 78.53
69 Phil Simms 78.48
70 Bert Jones 78.21
71 Johnny Unitas* 78.20
72T Jim McMahon 78.17
72T Otto Graham* 78.17
74 Jeff Blake 78.03
75 Bobby Hebert 78.00
76 Frank Ryan 77.61
77 Jim Harbaugh 77.60
78 Jon Kitna 77.41
79 Joe Theismann 77.37
80 Charlie Batch 77.22
81 Bob Griese* 77.14
82 Jay Fiedler 77.13
83 Drew Bledsoe 77.06
84 Bill Kenney 76.98
85 Ryan Fitzpatrick 76.85
86 Erik Kramer 76.64
87 Gary Danielson 76.58
88 Doug Flutie 76.34
89 Stan Humphries 75.83
90 Wade Wilson 75.57
91 Steve Bartkowski 75.44
92 Ken Stabler 75.31
So now Daniel Jones is better than Jim Kelly, Roger Staubach and Johnny Unitas? Not to mention Ken Stabler, John Elway and Dan Fouts. Really! This is everything I ever need to know about your football acumen. And more importantly, why there is such a bizarre love affair many fans of this team have with Daniel Jones. Stockholm Syndrome at its finest.
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
The unanswerable question (and the reason JS and co. kept DJ) is:
If DJ was drafted by the Eagles, 49ers, Miami,…would he be on your ‘good QB’ list while we lament being stuck with Hurts, Purdy, or Tua?
I get it that you hate Daniel Jones.
And now you hate the Giant's management.
If they do not build a team to your standards they are all idiots.
Winning is no longer your litmus test.
You are not old enough to remember how Sims was vilified or that many fans wanted to dispose of Eli.
They hated Phil and Eli, and they blamed management.
This reaction is cyclical. Losing breeds discontent.
What makes this different is that I have never heard a Giants fan root for losses specifically to facilitate the removal of a player.
While fans criticized players they universally hoped for improvement. They wanted wins at any cost. That was how you valued your team.
This has become personal and even if Jones had an MVP year you would be disappointed call it a flake and want a new QB.
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback. It's easy for you to ask whether I'd hate him if he won the Super Bowl, won MVP, or cured cancer. His odds of doing any of the three are the same, and we'll never get an answer to that hypothetical question.
I'll say again I don't hate Jones. I actually respect him and his agent for taking advantage of the idiots running this team. Jones has turned meager NFL abilities into a fortune. He was not recruited coming out of high school, and he wasn't particularly good in college...but he parlayed that into a lot of money. He's an inspiration for untalented people that are willing to work hard.
I did not compare Jones to either Eli or Sims.
It would help if you read what I said.
I compared your reaction to Jones and how Eli and Sims were treated.
Both Eli and Phil were vilified but did not fans root against them.
That never happened.
I have never seen anyone root against success.
This is new to me.
The point was made that the Giants are happy with Jones…. Was it not?
It is more then fair to counter that point of view and say that if they were happy with him, then they wouldn’t have tried to draft his replacement whether it be Maye or anybody else
We do not know that they tried to trade up for a QB and even if they had, it could have been more a reflection on Jones's durability than the quality of his play (coupled with the fact that if you've got the 6th pick in the draft and there's a "special" QB within your grasp, you should always explore it to the finest detail).
Do you remember the rumor about the Giants interest in McCarthy? Followed by the rumor that Schoen was upset by the rumor about McCarthy? Well, as it turned out those were obviously false rumors or the Giants would've been happy to take McCarthy when they were on the clock. But we'll be hearing about how the Giants tried to trade up for Drake Maye for the next two or three years simply because it's not a rumor that can be proven false.
Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
I predict that Daniel Jones will have a great year and that the Giants make the playoffs. The Giants will be the surprise team of the NFL.
I also predict that you will not be happy with that result.
You will continue to bash Jones and management. You will explain that this is the worst-case scenario as the Giants will be stuck with Jones.
You have gone on record stating that Jones is the worst QB in the NFL and that the Giants are poorly constructed.
So we will see who is right.
If the Giants are as bad as last year I will acknowledge that the Giants need a new QB and new management.
I did not compare Jones to either Eli or Sims.
It would help if you read what I said.
I compared your reaction to Jones and how Eli and Sims were treated.
Both Eli and Phil were vilified but did not fans root against them.
That never happened.
I have never seen anyone root against success.
This is new to me.
I'd argue Jones has been treated brilliantly. You can argue he has the best salary to production ratio of any player in the NFL. Best from the player's perspective anyway.
about the team's QB getting together to work on their own in the offseason and shouted 'Lets go!' could he have imagined how sad and pathetic things would degrade to? Mods should pull this circus from being pinned.
about the team's QB getting together to work on their own in the offseason and shouted 'Lets go!' could he have imagined how sad and pathetic things would degrade to? Mods should pull this circus from being pinned.
Yet you keep posting on it. And posting the same damn thing. What’s the purpose? You think you’re going to convince everyone of posting things you don’t like? Keep up the good fight, I suppose. Good luck
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
In Simms’ 4th season as a starter (he was out injured in ‘82 and only played in 2 games in ‘83) he threw for over 4000 yards at 7.6 Y/A. Numbers Jones has never come close to. In his 6th season as a starter he won the Super Bowl and Super Bowl MVP.
And if you’re old enough to remember those days and you’re acting like you don’t understand the difference between the game back then and now then you are either lying your ass off or you’re absolutely clueless. Which is it?
I predict that Daniel Jones will have a great year and that the Giants make the playoffs. The Giants will be the surprise team of the NFL.
I also predict that you will not be happy with that result.
You will continue to bash Jones and management. You will explain that this is the worst-case scenario as the Giants will be stuck with Jones.
You have gone on record stating that Jones is the worst QB in the NFL and that the Giants are poorly constructed.
So we will see who is right.
If the Giants are as bad as last year I will acknowledge that the Giants need a new QB and new management.
I predict Jones will have a mediocre 2024, the offense will average around 20 PPG, and the Giants will win 5-8 games. I also predict you'll be here a year from now asking why I'm not rooting for Jones to win MVP in 2025.
about the team's QB getting together to work on their own in the offseason and shouted 'Lets go!' could he have imagined how sad and pathetic things would degrade to? Mods should pull this circus from being pinned.
Yet you keep posting on it. And posting the same damn thing. What’s the purpose? You think you’re going to convince everyone of posting things you don’t like? Keep up the good fight, I suppose. Good luck
Yes well, speaking of saying same thing and not convincing anyone --I know you're not new to the board, so you already know this --but this whole debate which hijacked the thread and you're defending is exactly that -repetitive and no one's mind being changed, only a million times over. You must know this, right? So there's that. And no, it's not my intend to "convince everyone of posting things you don’t like". I've chosen to express my displeasure about the utter derailment of a pinned thread. I wouldn't have thought that would be taken as out of bounds or controversial, LOL.
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
In Simms’ 4th season as a starter (he was out injured in ‘82 and only played in 2 games in ‘83) he threw for over 4000 yards at 7.6 Y/A. Numbers Jones has never come close to. In his 6th season as a starter he won the Super Bowl and Super Bowl MVP.
And if you’re old enough to remember those days and you’re acting like you don’t understand the difference between the game back then and now then you are either lying your ass off or you’re absolutely clueless. Which is it?
You realize Simms threw 18 picks and had 8 fumbles in 84 and followed that up with 20 picks and 16 fumbles in 85. He was benched in 83, correct?
No need to answer for Terps.
He's a big boy.
I get the Simms comp in terms of it took Phil a while to become the Phil who should be in Canton. But let's face it-putting aside 1984 NFL vs. 2024...that's an exception, not the norm. Most QBs are who they are by year six.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Yeah, I agree. Like again-& I know people think I'm fucking around-but I seriously hope Jones becomes a great fucking QB this fall. If he does, that sets the Giants up for real success & I really want to be seriously invested in the Giants on gameday...like living & dying on each play. Too lately over the past decade, I've found myself @ bars with one eye on the Giants game & the other on a better game between two better teams.
But I'm also a realist. I think we know what Daniel Jones is...a mediocre @ best QB that is overpaid, doesn't lift up his teammates, is often injured, & doesn't really inspire any hope with a large segment of the fan base. Sure, nice guy...hard worker...all that jazz. But do even the most fervent Jones supporters ever see him leading us to a Super Bowl?
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
Good for you Shock.
Have a nice night. Just turned 5 o'clock here, so it's brewski time. Tata.
Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
You have no idea if that's true. Just like every other GM and HC they work for owners. It's just as likely to believe that Jones has been forced on them than it is they believe they can win a Super Bowl with him.
Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
You have no idea if that's true. Just like every other GM and HC they work for owners. It's just as likely to believe that Jones has been forced on them than it is they believe they can win a Super Bowl with him.
Also the idea that GMs and coaches can never be questioned is absurdity at its highest level. Gettleman and Joe Judge are considered to be more qualified than any of us as well. Turns out they were incompetent clown shows.
I don't think it's a put up or shut up year at all. I think the economics of his deal make it a near lock he's back in 2025.
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
This is the revelation you have raised previously that to me is most shocking. I think you are right. Given the astronomical Trevor Lawrence contract, and the expected contract for Dak coming next year, the Giants are likely quite content with the 2025 price tag for their favorite son. Not recognizing of course the overwhelming opportunity cost of not moving on in a direction that gets this franchise back to a sensible post DJ Era rebuild. So even if DJ has a horrible year, especially if it is due to injury and/or the myriad of typical excuses related to OL and receivers, I think he is likely back next year.
I don't think it's a put up or shut up year at all. I think the economics of his deal make it a near lock he's back in 2025.
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
This is the revelation you have raised previously that to me is most shocking. I think you are right. Given the astronomical Trevor Lawrence contract, and the expected contract for Dak coming next year, the Giants are likely quite content with the 2025 price tag for their favorite son. Not recognizing of course the overwhelming opportunity cost of not moving on in a direction that gets this franchise back to a sensible post DJ Era rebuild. So even if DJ has a horrible year, especially if it is due to injury and/or the myriad of typical excuses related to OL and receivers, I think he is likely back next year.
Typical excuses of the OL?
Do you actually watch the games?
I don't think it's a put up or shut up year at all. I think the economics of his deal make it a near lock he's back in 2025.
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
This is the revelation you have raised previously that to me is most shocking. I think you are right. Given the astronomical Trevor Lawrence contract, and the expected contract for Dak coming next year, the Giants are likely quite content with the 2025 price tag for their favorite son. Not recognizing of course the overwhelming opportunity cost of not moving on in a direction that gets this franchise back to a sensible post DJ Era rebuild. So even if DJ has a horrible year, especially if it is due to injury and/or the myriad of typical excuses related to OL and receivers, I think he is likely back next year.
Typical excuses of the OL?
Do you actually watch the games?
Yikes
There are some that are unworthy of your attention.
Simple question for the folks participating on this thread -- if the Giants are 8-9, and Jones equals his career averages in games played, yards and touchdowns created next year, would you want him back in 2025?
Simple question for the folks participating on this thread -- if the Giants are 8-9, and Jones equals his career averages in games played, yards and touchdowns created next year, would you want him back in 2025?
Simple question for the folks participating on this thread -- if the Giants are 8-9, and Jones equals his career averages in games played, yards and touchdowns created next year, would you want him back in 2025?
No, but I don’t expect the organization to agree. I fully expect him to be the opening day starter in 2025 unless he’s either injured or completely stinks in 2024.
I know, the Giants tried to draft his replacement this year, but only a very specific replacement they clearly had no realistic chance of acquiring. So I don’t actually believe they were serious about it then and I don’t believe that at the top of the organization there was (or is) any desire to do move on from Jones.
In comment 16544371 4xchamps said:
[quote] In comment 16544314 The Mike said:
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In comment 16544159 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16544142 Archer said:
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What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL.
Wow, you are 100% delusional, don't know a thing about football history or just trying to look like an idiot.
Daniel Jones 62 TDs (not including rushing) 40 INTs, 85 rating.
62 TDs and 40 INTs, plus the rushing TDs, a playoff win... it's not top 100 in NFL history but it ain't anywhere near the bottom. In fact in the game's history it's WAY closer to the top than the bottom.
QBR for a few players behind DJ:
23 Rich Gannon 84.71
24 Marc Bulger 84.41
25 Jim Kelly* 84.39
26 Jay Cutler 84.03
27 Mark Brunell 83.99
28 Roger Staubach* 83.42
29 Matthew Stafford 82.79
30 Steve McNair 82.76
31 Eli Manning 82.71
32 Brian Griese 82.70
33 Neil Lomax 82.68
34 Sonny Jurgensen* 82.62
35 Len Dawson* 82.56
36 Jason Campbell 82.52
37 Brad Johnson 82.50
38 Matt Hasselbeck 82.19
39 Ken Anderson 81.86
40 Bernie Kosar 81.83
41 Neil O'Donnell 81.82
42 Danny White 81.71
43 Troy Aikman* 81.62
44 Dave Krieg 81.50
45 Randall Cunningham 81.47
46 Jake Delhomme 81.35
47 Boomer Esiason 81.06
48 Warren Moon* 80.90
49 Michael Vick 80.59
50 Jeff Hostetler 80.48
51 Bart Starr* 80.47
52 Ken O'Brien 80.44
53 Jeff George 80.42
54 Matt Cassel 80.39
55 Fran Tarkenton* 80.35
56 Steve Beuerlein 80.32
57 Dan Fouts* 80.23
58 John Elway* 79.86
59 Josh Freeman 79.77
60 Kyle Orton 79.74
61 Tony Eason 79.72
62 Elvis Grbac 79.65
63 Alex Smith 79.14
64 Chris Chandler 79.12
65 Mark Rypien 78.93
66 Byron Leftwich 78.85
67 Jim Everett 78.59
68 Aaron Brooks 78.53
69 Phil Simms 78.48
70 Bert Jones 78.21
71 Johnny Unitas* 78.20
72T Jim McMahon 78.17
72T Otto Graham* 78.17
74 Jeff Blake 78.03
75 Bobby Hebert 78.00
76 Frank Ryan 77.61
77 Jim Harbaugh 77.60
78 Jon Kitna 77.41
79 Joe Theismann 77.37
80 Charlie Batch 77.22
81 Bob Griese* 77.14
82 Jay Fiedler 77.13
83 Drew Bledsoe 77.06
84 Bill Kenney 76.98
85 Ryan Fitzpatrick 76.85
86 Erik Kramer 76.64
87 Gary Danielson 76.58
88 Doug Flutie 76.34
89 Stan Humphries 75.83
90 Wade Wilson 75.57
91 Steve Bartkowski 75.44
92 Ken Stabler 75.31
So now Daniel Jones is better than Jim Kelly, Roger Staubach and Johnny Unitas? Not to mention Ken Stabler, John Elway and Dan Fouts. Really! This is everything I ever need to know about your football acumen. And more importantly, why there is such a bizarre love affair many fans of this team have with Daniel Jones. Stockholm Syndrome at its finest.
See, I knew you'd go that route, even though I never suggested DJ was better than any of them. I was answering your ridiculous "worst QB in history" claim and I think I did it pretty well bruh.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
Your logic is the equivalent of dogging your wife behind her back and then saying you hope she becomes a good wife. The continued bashing of the QB of the team you say you love is a joke. Have an opinion, think he sucks, but the daily bashing here is a joke.
Your equivalent is stupid and doesn’t work. I have control over whether I’m with my wife or not. I wouldn’t sit around hoping she someday turned into a good wife. If she wasn’t a good wife, she’d be gone. The better equivalent would be your brothers wife is just a bad person but your brother loves her for some damn reason. You have no control over whether he stays with her or not but since he’s adamant that she can change you have no choice but to hope he’s somehow right and she straightens her shit out. You know it’s very unlikely to happen but you’re not the one that has the power to make that decision…
Wanting better players isn't a mortal sin. If Evan Neal has a bad season again, is it OK to want to replace him? If Azeez Ojulari has a bad season, is it OK to not want him re-signed?
Was it OK to want Waller to retire and for the Giants to cut Glowinksi?
Why is disappointment the Giants retained an unreliable quarterback such a scared cow?
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
Your logic is the equivalent of dogging your wife behind her back and then saying you hope she becomes a good wife. The continued bashing of the QB of the team you say you love is a joke. Have an opinion, think he sucks, but the daily bashing here is a joke.
Nah it's more like you're dating a 2 but you tell all your buddies she's a 9, she just needs better make-up. And she has a great personality
Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
You have no idea if that's true. Just like every other GM and HC they work for owners. It's just as likely to believe that Jones has been forced on them than it is they believe they can win a Super Bowl with him.
This has become the base argument for the posters who believe in Jones. "I defer to people who are clearly smarter than me and it is stupid for anyone to question them. Questioning them is hubris!"
But when some other team signs some aged veteran to an exorbitant contract? "Hahaha, what a poorly run franchise!"
I expect these posters - because every front office and coach in the league is smarter than them - would agree that every move made by a team is a good one that should not be questioned, based only on the fact that they made that move.
What about all the QB's drafted during this time who are not franhise QBs.
Like Daniel Jones?
That's the point. The downside isn't really that bad when you consider the binary outcome of either being good enough or not. Being worse than the status quo doesn't matter all that much if neither is good enough. What does matter is at least trying to improve the situation, and that generally means addressing it in some way besides journeymen and UDFAs.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
I wouldn't let them off the hook that easily - I think they absolutely DO believe that nonsense. They just don't realize how inane it is to have to go back 40 years to draw a (very loose) parallel.
Sadly Gettleman was correct about QB hell. He put the Giants in it and Joe Schoen regardless whether by choice or following orders has cemented them there.
The Athletic By Dan Duggan
Apr 13, 2018
Quote:
One of new Giants general manager Dave Gettleman’s goals is to avoid “quarterback hell.”
“If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years,” Gettleman said of the perils of using a top pick on a quarterback. “You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call ‘quarterback hell.’ They’ve got quality defense, they’ve got a good special teams, and they’re going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they’ve got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy.”
RE: Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once and while
Sadly Gettleman was correct about QB hell. He put the Giants in it and Joe Schoen regardless whether by choice or following orders has cemented them there.
The Athletic By Dan Duggan
Apr 13, 2018
Quote:
One of new Giants general manager Dave Gettleman’s goals is to avoid “quarterback hell.”
“If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years,” Gettleman said of the perils of using a top pick on a quarterback. “You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call ‘quarterback hell.’ They’ve got quality defense, they’ve got a good special teams, and they’re going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they’ve got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy.”
And this is what makes this six year period so painful. Gettleman literally lectured the fan base with his "smartest guy in the room" pedantry for a year and a half after being hired that "...you cannot reach for quarterbacks!" And then proceeded to do precisely that by falling in love and reaching for a middling talent like DJ with a top ten pick. Absolute insanity!
RE: Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once and while
Sadly Gettleman was correct about QB hell. He put the Giants in it and Joe Schoen regardless whether by choice or following orders has cemented them there.
The Athletic By Dan Duggan
Apr 13, 2018
Quote:
One of new Giants general manager Dave Gettleman’s goals is to avoid “quarterback hell.”
“If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years,” Gettleman said of the perils of using a top pick on a quarterback. “You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call ‘quarterback hell.’ They’ve got quality defense, they’ve got a good special teams, and they’re going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they’ve got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy.”
So the Giant's are likely going to be in that exact situation in April 25.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
I wouldn't let them off the hook that easily - I think they absolutely DO believe that nonsense. They just don't realize how inane it is to have to go back 40 years to draw a (very loose) parallel.
I mean, Y.A. Tittle didn’t really put up great numbers until year 15 when he exploded for 33 TDs. His best seasons were years 15 and 16 so there’s still a chance here if we can just show some patience
You would think Giants fans would be very familiar with this concept. Schoen was coming off his first year, with an unexpected amount of success. He simply could have fallen for the mirage.
Mara has been willing to give GMs a few swings at coach, I hope he affords Schoen another swing at QB and they keep the coach.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Rereading some of these posts, I think you might have misunderstood my message addressed to Terps, which you felt the need to answer for him.
1. Terps had said he was a fan of Simms.
2. Simms wasn't all that in the early years.
3. Terps keeps repeating like a broken record that you should know what a QB is after a a few years and if he hasn't become THAT GUY, you simply replace him.
My point being that if Terps had his way, he wouldn't have become a fan of Simms because Simms would have been long gone.
Pretty sure Terps got it because he wouldn't touch the question with a ten foot pole. You, on the other hand, not so much.
To further clarify, I wasn't comparing the careers of Simms and Jones.
Hope that helps you out.
Peace and love bro.
I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Rereading some of these posts, I think you might have misunderstood my message addressed to Terps, which you felt the need to answer for him.
1. Terps had said he was a fan of Simms.
2. Simms wasn't all that in the early years.
3. Terps keeps repeating like a broken record that you should know what a QB is after a a few years and if he hasn't become THAT GUY, you simply replace him.
My point being that if Terps had his way, he wouldn't have become a fan of Simms because Simms would have been long gone.
Pretty sure Terps got it because he wouldn't touch the question with a ten foot pole. You, on the other hand, not so much.
To further clarify, I wasn't comparing the careers of Simms and Jones.
Hope that helps you out.
Peace and love bro.
Honestly, your premise in #2 is faulty. Phil was the best qb the Giants had since Tarkenton and it was obvious.
If the system was the same as it was 40 years ago, Jones would be a perfect candidate to stash as that backup and see if health and development conspired at some point.
Phil Simms's career path 40 years ago has nothing to do with Daniel Jones's career path now.
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
Phil Simms's career path 40 years ago has nothing to do with Daniel Jones's career path now.
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
Not the question.
Would you have gotten rid of Simms after 2 or 3 years based on his results? 6 wins, 3 wins, 5 wins. 2000 yards per year. More interceptions than TDs.
That's your mantra after all. Move on.
Phil Simms's career path 40 years ago has nothing to do with Daniel Jones's career path now.
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
Not the question.
Would you have gotten rid of Simms after 2 or 3 years based on his results? 6 wins, 3 wins, 5 wins. 2000 yards per year. More interceptions than TDs.
That's your mantra after all. Move on.
Given that there was no free agency or salary cap at the time, and the game wasn't as dominated by passing, I probably wouldn't have gotten rid of Simms.
I answered your question. Now answer mine: what does Phil Simms have to do with Daniel Jones?
Phil Simms's career path 40 years ago has nothing to do with Daniel Jones's career path now.
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
Not the question.
Would you have gotten rid of Simms after 2 or 3 years based on his results? 6 wins, 3 wins, 5 wins. 2000 yards per year. More interceptions than TDs.
That's your mantra after all. Move on.
Given that there was no free agency or salary cap at the time, and the game wasn't as dominated by passing, I probably wouldn't have gotten rid of Simms.
I answered your question. Now answer mine: what does Phil Simms have to do with Daniel Jones?
I never stated or insinuated that they did.
Based on your repeated threads about turning over less than stellar QBs after a couple of years, I simply asked;
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
Very simple question. Thanks for finally answering it.
Once again, I never mentioned Jones. Obsess much?
Have a nice day.
Just to be clear -- your contribution to this shitshow of a thread about Daniel Jones is an unrelated aside about Phil Simms? And that had no connection to Daniel Jones? Fabulous work.
The point holds: Jones has stunk, currently stinks, and will likely continue to stink. Phil Simms in 1983 is irrelevant.
Once again, I never mentioned Jones. Obsess much?
Have a nice day.
This is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. You're in a thread about DJ, engaging in a conversation with a poster who was talking about DJ, bringing up a former Giant QB who DJ often gets compared to. You weren't looking for an answer from Terps, you were looking for an "aha! Gotcha" because you didn't explicitly say Jones name.
Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
If there's an "anti Jones club", I'm a card-carrying member. I obviously don't think he's the worst NFL QB of all time, but I don't think he's that good & we're spining our wheels @ this point with him. Nothing against the guy personally-I have no animus towards him-but I just think we could do a helluva lot better at the position.
Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
This is precious. You being a devoted member of the DJFC how many posts praising Jones have you “checked”? We have an asshole on here, Jack Stroud that constantly claims Jones is an elite QB, one of the best in the NFL. He literally said with a straight face that he’s better than Joe Burrow. And he’s posted this stuff incessantly so I KNOW you’ve seen many of his posts. Have you ever “checked” him on that? Or any other post waxing poetic about Jones? So spare me your personal bias bullshit. There is playoffs bias floating around here, including from you, clown
Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
This is precious. You being a devoted member of the DJFC how many posts praising Jones have you “checked”? We have an asshole on here, Jack Stroud that constantly claims Jones is an elite QB, one of the best in the NFL. He literally said with a straight face that he’s better than Joe Burrow. And he’s posted this stuff incessantly so I KNOW you’ve seen many of his posts. Have you ever “checked” him on that? Or any other post waxing poetic about Jones? So spare me your personal bias bullshit. There is playoffs bias floating around here, including from you, clown
Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
Just for the record, I made the claim that he is "arguably" the worst quarterback in NFL history who has at least 50 starts. And I stand by it.
He is currently the worst active quarterback in the NFL in terms of winning percentage (.375). And that includes his three closest comps, Darnold (.433), Mariota (.467) and Trubisky (.535).
Only 7 quarterbacks in the Super Bowl Era have a lower winning percentage than DJ. Of these, Archie Manning, Norm Snead, Jeff Blake, Jeff George, Chris Miller and Josh McCown either had multiple years that were better than anything DJ has ever done and/or accumulated nearly double the number of TDs and passing yards that DJ has thus far compiled.
So that leaves DJ v Mike Pagel as the two worst quarterbacks in NFL history with more than 50 starts. You want to argue DJ is better than Mike Pagel? Fine. But keep this in mind. Mike Pagel was only a starter for two years. He was a career backup who simply started and played in a lot of games during his spectacularly atrocious career. And I can assure you that there is not a single person in the entire spectrum of fandom that would ever claim that Mike Pagel was anything but a spectacularly atrocious quarterback.
Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
I love that you used the word "if" twice.
There's Hope for you yet, my brother.
Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
I love that you used the word "if" twice.
There's Hope for you yet, my brother.
How many times do I have to be right on this guy to be right? He's been shit for five years and we're still playing the "let it play out" game.
Once again, I never mentioned Jones. Obsess much?
Have a nice day.
Just to be clear -- your contribution to this shitshow of a thread about Daniel Jones is an unrelated aside about Phil Simms? And that had no connection to Daniel Jones? Fabulous work.
"Whoa. Tough crowd. Tough crowd."
The name calling, the baseless allegations, I'm shocked.
All this over one little innocuous question questions where a simple yes or no would have sufficed. This could take weeks, months to get over.
Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
I love that you used the word "if" twice.
There's Hope for you yet, my brother.
How many times do I have to be right on this guy to be right? He's been shit for five years and we're still playing the "let it play out" game.
You wanted to draft him and left the site when they made the playoffs. You have zero credibility despite what your small fan club wants to believe.
Just to be clear -- your contribution to this shitshow of a thread about Daniel Jones is an unrelated aside about Phil Simms? And that had no connection to Daniel Jones? Fabulous work.
The name calling, the baseless allegations, I'm shocked.
All this over one little innocuous question questions where a simple yes or no would have sufficed.
You made the implication of a silly comparison, and you got your balls busted. This is the way.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
So no opinions in advance then. Basically, a site where we observe and make descriptive comments only until something happens. Rear view window opinions only so everyone will simultaneously always be right and always in agreement. That sounds like kumbaya on a scale even bigger than DJ's offseason activities!
Eric will probably need to change the name of the site though. Maybe something like Big Blue Indifference? Maybe we can add a special section with poster contributions to spice things up a bit when things are slow. Stuff like the home movies of George Costanza's boyhood trip to Michigan would be perfect for this!
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
I'm fine with the topic. It just seems like it's not a conversation anymore but people talking at and putting each other down. There are some reasonable people on both sides but then there are others that have the heels dug in and don't give a shit what anyone says.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
The last part of your post is exactly what I am talking about. Have you not witnessed posters on this site make statements that are formatted as a conclusion? Perhaps you don't think that people make conclusions when there is not a conclusion yet? I think people do this often. They are certain their outcome will be the conclusion. This happens for both posters with a positive point of view on Jones and the ones with a negative point of view (not all of them).
For example: A poster I conversed with a while back has already came to the conclusion that Bryce Young will not be a good quarterback based on two preseason drives. To me that is coming to a conclusion before there is a conclusion. I think this type of thing happens quite often.
RE: RE: RE: RE: By far my least interesting BBI statements
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
So no opinions in advance then. Basically, a site where we observe and make descriptive comments only until something happens. Rear view window opinions only so everyone will simultaneously always be right and always in agreement. That sounds like kumbaya on a scale even bigger than DJ's offseason activities!
Eric will probably need to change the name of the site though. Maybe something like Big Blue Indifference? Maybe we can add a special section with poster contributions to spice things up a bit when things are slow. Stuff like the home movies of George Costanza's boyhood trip to Michigan would be perfect for this!
For example: A poster I conversed with a while back has already came to the conclusion that Bryce Young will not be a good quarterback based on two preseason drives. To me that is coming to a conclusion before there is a conclusion. I think this type of thing happens quite often.
I think lots of people on this site use bad evidence to form their opinions, whether that be of the incomplete, untrue, or non-applicable variety.
At the risk of being more semantically obnoxious than normal, my objection is the notion fans "let it play out."
Fans can't let it play out, because fans aren't actually involved.
For example: A poster I conversed with a while back has already came to the conclusion that Bryce Young will not be a good quarterback based on two preseason drives. To me that is coming to a conclusion before there is a conclusion. I think this type of thing happens quite often.
I think lots of people on this site use bad evidence to form their opinions, whether that be of the incomplete, untrue, or non-applicable variety.
At the risk of being more semantically obnoxious than normal, my objection is the notion fans "let it play out."
Fans can't let it play out, because fans aren't actually involved.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
I think that many of us simply are looking forward to seeing what the professionals have come up with.
While I respect the opinions of the peanut gallery, (I am part of it) I look forward to seeing how the next version of the team will look every season.
Several in our little group of overly confident nuts have made statements of fact. Statements based on what they think that they know...which in my experience is more emotion than real knowledge.
IMO, if they want to be taken seriously, they have to allow for opinions that differ from their own. Which means, stating their opinions as just that, rather than as fact.
Excuses to one are simply legitimate reasons to others.
Im on the fence with Jones simply because those with the most expertise decided that replacing him with Nix, McCarthy or Penix was less valuable than adding Nabers.
It suggests that Nabers was viewed as a better way to improve the team. Which also suggests that they don't view Jones as the liability that some here believe him to be.
Im not sold on Jones, but Im looking forward to seeing it play out.
Those with the expertise saw fit to pay Jones up to $160M.
There is no reason to assume these guys know what they're doing, or to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Not necessarily. The college scouts wouldn’t be involved with the re-signing of Jones so if they gave reports highly critical of any or all of those 3 QB’s we do not know. I can fully admit Jones’s limitations while simultaneously hoping that the remote possibility of him leading us to the Super Bowl takes place. I have been critical of those who might also agree that we need to move on from Jones, but also want to see us fail so they can say they were right.
Daniel Jones isn’t bringing any of the boys together on this thread.
I'm cautiously optimistic Schoen and Daboll are good talent evaluators and developers. They are both bright, and seemingly self aware guys. This is in direct contrast to the last set of characters. It's a plus, but doesn't necessarily guarantee they are good football program managers.
They both have exhibited some warnings signs as well. The batting average on player acquisitions hasn't been impressive. And the coaching staff hires have been pretty poor.
I admit that I am using “conclude” in correctly. Conclude can simply mean arriving at an opinion. I have zero problem with fans arriving at an opinion. The problem for me would be concluding (coming to an end) without understanding that a concluded opinion does not shut the case necessarily. I think it is a good to keep an open mind no matter how sure we are of our opinions. I struggle with this too and often have to be reminded because I literally do it without realizing it.
I apologize for my lack of clarity with my thoughts.
I admit that I am using “conclude” in correctly. Conclude can simply mean arriving at an opinion. I have zero problem with fans arriving at an opinion. The problem for me would be concluding (coming to an end) without understanding that a concluded opinion does not shut the case necessarily. I think it is a good to keep an open mind no matter how sure we are of our opinions. I struggle with this too and often have to be reminded because I literally do it without realizing it.
I apologize for my lack of clarity with my thoughts.
Those with the expertise saw fit to pay Jones up to $160M.
There is no reason to assume these guys know what they're doing, or to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Not necessarily. The college scouts wouldn’t be involved with the re-signing of Jones so if they gave reports highly critical of any or all of those 3 QB’s we do not know. I can fully admit Jones’s limitations while simultaneously hoping that the remote possibility of him leading us to the Super Bowl takes place. I have been critical of those who might also agree that we need to move on from Jones, but also want to see us fail so they can say they were right.
It's not about being right. It's about wanting the Giants to be a competitive team again.
It really is amazing we are still discussing Daniel Jones
I really did think Schoen was going to draft a QB. But, to still have people referencing Simms and Manning to prop up Jones is just so ridiculous to me. Jones is entering year 6. It's ridiculous.
He has a very similar career to Mitch Trubisky. The only difference is the playoff win. Good for Jones, he played very well in that playoff win and he earned it. However, Blake Bortles and Case Keenum have playoff wins too. Among others who NYG fans wouldn't consider "franchise QBs". We've got Giant fans critical of Lamar Jackson. It's absurd.
And regarding Trubisky, he was drafted in 2017, only 2 years before Jones. The Bears have already moved on twice at QB since then (Trubisky & Fields).
But, let's still bring up Simms.
RE: It really is amazing we are still discussing Daniel Jones
I really did think Schoen was going to draft a QB. But, to still have people referencing Simms and Manning to prop up Jones is just so ridiculous to me. Jones is entering year 6. It's ridiculous.
He has a very similar career to Mitch Trubisky. The only difference is the playoff win. Good for Jones, he played very well in that playoff win and he earned it. However, Blake Bortles and Case Keenum have playoff wins too. Among others who NYG fans wouldn't consider "franchise QBs". We've got Giant fans critical of Lamar Jackson. It's absurd.
And regarding Trubisky, he was drafted in 2017, only 2 years before Jones. The Bears have already moved on twice at QB since then (Trubisky & Fields).
But, let's still bring up Simms.
People who bring up Simms in an effort to prop up Jones aren't serious people. This is 2024, not 1984.
1) Put aside the economic considerations, do you believe the Phil Simms scenario has a high, medium, low, of incredibly low chance or happening again?
2) What do you think is higher odds -- a younger and/or more durable quarterback acquired in the draft or by other means wins a championship or Daniel Jones does?
3) What do you think is more likely, Daniel Jones leaves and enjoys great success at Giants' embarrassment or Daniel Jones stays and plays poorly at the Giants' embarrassment?
1) Put aside the economic considerations, do you believe the Phil Simms scenario has a high, medium, low, of incredibly low chance or happening again?
2) What do you think is higher odds -- a younger and/or more durable quarterback acquired in the draft or by other means wins a championship or Daniel Jones does?
3) What do you think is more likely, Daniel Jones leaves and enjoys great success at Giants' embarrassment or Daniel Jones stays and plays poorly at the Giants' embarrassment?
With all due respect, #1 and #3 are not valuable to consider. But somehow I think you knew that when you wrote it for the pondering fans above.
#2 could be valuable to consider but, in practice, seems to be a waste of time. Largely because the Giants can't bring themselves to acquire a QB in the draft. Somehow this position on the roster has become either lesser in importance or permanently filled. Maybe both.
Before we played AZ last year, an ex-Cards TE talked about how critical off-the-field things like that are (especially with the OL who he said should be sharing rooms and finishing each others sentences).
Now hopefully it translates to the field.
I can’t believe this still has to be said: NOBODY IS ROOTING AGAINST HIM.
Jones is a qb out of central casting until he gets on the field during a game and then the casting is "Nightmare on Elm Street" half the time
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
I would imagine a lot of things seem debatable to you, but it's true: NO ONE IS ROOTING AGAINST DANIEL JONES.
If anything, his most outspoken critics are rooting hardest for him to improve. His supporters are the ones who seem satisfied with what he is already. That's not rooting, it's enabling.
Quote:
Daniel Jones.
I can’t believe this still has to be said: NOBODY IS ROOTING AGAINST HIM.
How is it you can speak for everyone else?
Quote:
captain all caps.
I would imagine a lot of things seem debatable to you, but it's true: NO ONE IS ROOTING AGAINST DANIEL JONES.
If anything, his most outspoken critics are rooting hardest for him to improve. His supporters are the ones who seem satisfied with what he is already. That's not rooting, it's enabling.
yawn..
Tommy DeVito
Darius Slayton
Malik Nabers
Wan’Dale Robinson
Jalin Hyatt
Bryce Ford-Wheaton
Dennis Houston
Daniel Bellinger
Theo Johnson
Lawrence Cager
Dante Miller
Jones is a qb out of central casting until he gets on the field during a game and then the casting is "Nightmare on Elm Street" half the time
LOL, absolutely this.
Absurdly immature, Rory. Thinking Daniel Jones isn't a very good QB, and rooting against him are two separate things. Many believe the first. I don't think I have seen anyone on this board doing the latter.
These are the types of emotional, divisive posts that make this board insufferable.
Very cool story, Ryan. I don't know how old Brooks is, but hopefully old enough to cherish that memory.
Quote:
Wasn't going to start another thread for this - but my wife and 6 month son landed back in Charlotte from NJ on Monday and we were waiting for our bags, and we saw DJ. I went up to him and said hello and my wife asked if he would take a pic with our son Brooks. He said absolutely and was super nice about it. Not sure how to upload a photo on here otherwise I would. But it was a great memory - will have to get it framed for the little guy!
Very cool story, Ryan. I don't know how old Brooks is, but hopefully old enough to cherish that memory.
If Brooks was old enough to know who DJ was, he wouldn't have wanted a picture with him :) It says he's 6 months old, btw
Daniel Jones Giants Performance Chart - ( New Window )
While I agree with you about the need for O-line chemistry, I'm not sure how a glorified 7 on 7 passing camp would help in that area. To me, the way to increase O-line chemistry to for them to practice against competition (even if it is your own guys), not air
@art_stapleton
#Giants players at Daniel Jones’ QB/WR/TE/RB workout retreat to Lake Norman, N.C. and Charlotte area:
Jones
Drew Lock
Tommy DeVito
Darius Slayton
Malik Nabers
Wan’Dale Robinson
Jalin Hyatt
Bryce Ford-Wheaton
Dennis Houston
Daniel Bellinger
Theo Johnson
Lawrence Cager
Dante Miller
@art_stapleton
#Giants players at Daniel Jones’ QB/WR/TE/RB workout retreat to Lake Norman, N.C. and Charlotte area:
Jones
Drew Lock
Tommy DeVito
Darius Slayton
Malik Nabers
Wan’Dale Robinson
Jalin Hyatt
Bryce Ford-Wheaton
Dennis Houston
Daniel Bellinger
Theo Johnson
Lawrence Cager
Dante Miller
@art_stapleton
#Giants players at Daniel Jones’ QB/WR/TE/RB workout retreat to Lake Norman, N.C. and Charlotte area:
Jones
Drew Lock
Tommy DeVitoj
Darius Slayton
Malik Nabers
Wan’Dale Robinson
Jalin Hyatt
Bryce Ford-Wheaton
Dennis Houston
Daniel Bellinger
Theo Johnson
Lawrence Cager
Dante Miller
That’s a good showing. Most of the receivers. Would have liked a couple RB’s.
Thanks for pointing out what two thirds of this board doesn't realize or care about....
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captain all caps.
I would imagine a lot of things seem debatable to you, but it's true: NO ONE IS ROOTING AGAINST DANIEL JONES.
If anything, his most outspoken critics are rooting hardest for him to improve. His supporters are the ones who seem satisfied with what he is already. That's not rooting, it's enabling.
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who the hell is at the far right? MONSTER!
Chris Manhertz, I believe.
Seems plausible. 13 players listed in Arts tweet. 14 in the picture.
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In comment 16543167 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Wasn't going to start another thread for this - but my wife and 6 month son landed back in Charlotte from NJ on Monday and we were waiting for our bags, and we saw DJ. I went up to him and said hello and my wife asked if he would take a pic with our son Brooks. He said absolutely and was super nice about it. Not sure how to upload a photo on here otherwise I would. But it was a great memory - will have to get it framed for the little guy!
Very cool story, Ryan. I don't know how old Brooks is, but hopefully old enough to cherish that memory.
If Brooks was old enough to know who DJ was, he wouldn't have wanted a picture with him :) It says he's 6 months old, btw
Oh yeah, it does. I obviously missed it. Well maybe it's best he doesn't remember it?
Don't strain credulity claiming there aren't a lot of people actively rooting against Danial Jones because they want to be right.
Jesus who is the guy on the back row to the left? I should know but I don’t.
Don't strain credulity claiming there aren't a lot of people actively rooting against Danial Jones because they want to be right.
Good lord, I can't believe there are people so in love with a mediocre QB who's seemingly on an endless scholarship cause he looks the part. Great. Every other team in the league hopes the Giants keep Jones for 10, no 15 YEARS. If you can't see what he is at this point, you're never gonna see it. And no one wants him to fail, they're just extremely dubious that he could or would EVER actually BE a top franchise QB.
Ironically, 2019 was his sole year under Shurmur & I think there's merit to the idea that Garrett/Judge coached him up to be much more conservative with the rock, like Judge did in '22. But, as you pointed out, when they took off the training wheels in '23, he was awful. & I know the OL sucked. No one disputes that. But Jones didn't play well regardless & sure AF didn't live up to the coin he's making.
Well, here we go with year six. I'm crossing my fingers Nabers & a better OL means he'll ascend into a top level QB, but do I expect it? No.
Without diving too deep into the numbers and just using passer rating, Jones's passer rating exceeded that year's league average (90.4) in only 4 of the 12 games he started. Those 4 "good" games were against (defense ranking):
Tampa (29th)
Detroit (26th)
Jets (16th)
Washington (27th)
So he had four above average passing games in 2019; three were against some of the worst defenses in the league. And in these 4 games (his 4 best of the season) he fumbled an astounding 8 times, losing 4 of them.
He stinks, and he stunk in 2019. But he's our guy and we love him.
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In comment 16543120 Rory said:
Quote:
captain all caps.
I would imagine a lot of things seem debatable to you, but it's true: NO ONE IS ROOTING AGAINST DANIEL JONES.
If anything, his most outspoken critics are rooting hardest for him to improve. His supporters are the ones who seem satisfied with what he is already. That's not rooting, it's enabling.
I want to burn the world down right now! This is the biggest accountability dodge I've ever read. You have never once saw any of the "outspoken critics" even entertain the possibility that DJ CAN improve, let alone root for him to do so! You want him gone. Period. Now that the truth of the current situation is settling in, maybe you are dialing that back a bit. I welcome that. But let's not get it twisted, bro bro. Y'all were calling for his head.
haha. this is fkn awesome.
Well, it is now '24 & I think we're long past time to move on, but here we are. Obviously hoping for a miracle that he'll morph into something better, but not expecting it.
I do find some fans feelings about him really bizarre, as if he's some golden child that dare not be criticized or warrant any blame. I think most people who watch football just don't think he's a good QB. & I hate to regurgitate this, but that doesn't mean he's not a hard worker, good dude, or good teammate. It just means he's not a good QB. There are worse fates in life.
Well, it is now '24 & I think we're long past time to move on, but here we are. Obviously hoping for a miracle that he'll morph into something better, but not expecting it.
I do find some fans feelings about him really bizarre, as if he's some golden child that dare not be criticized or warrant any blame. I think most people who watch football just don't think he's a good QB. & I hate to regurgitate this, but that doesn't mean he's not a hard worker, good dude, or good teammate. It just means he's not a good QB. There are worse fates in life.
Accepting that Jones sucks is to accept some harder truths:
1. The Giants are not competing for anything real in 2024 and probably 2025
2. Schoen and Daboll might not be as good at their jobs as we hope
3. The Giants care too much about things that have nothing to do with winning football games
If the situation were as simple as moving on from Jones, things wouldn't be bleak. Moving on from quarterbacks is as simple and possible as it's been in decades. But accepting that the Giants don't want to move on from Jones is accepting a series of far shittier possibilities regarding this organization. No one wants to do that.
Do you put this much time and effort into your job?
Let me rephrase the question..
Does your employer know they are paying you to do nothing all day but to feed your obsession here on BBI?
I didn't want Waller back. I thought he was too expensive, not very durable, and unlikely ever to be a good return on investment. I don't hate Waller. I just didn't want him to come back. If he had, I would have been disappointed. When the season started I would root for him to do well if he was a Giant.
Go back and replace Waller with Jones.
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Caring about what other people root for is pretty dumb, but there is a case to be made that rooting for Daniel is rooting for the Giants to stay a bad football team.
Do you put this much time and effort into your job?
Let me rephrase the question..
Does your employer know they are paying you to do nothing all day but to feed your obsession here on BBI?
Does yours?
I haven't made any bets one way or the other so I have nothing invested.
I am rooting for the Giants to become a decent football team, and I'm pretty confident Jones can't be a good NFL QB so I'm rooting for him to choose to retire for no reason. This organization is too stupid to handle the issue themselves.
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Caring about what other people root for is pretty dumb, but there is a case to be made that rooting for Daniel is rooting for the Giants to stay a bad football team.
Do you put this much time and effort into your job?
Let me rephrase the question..
Does your employer know they are paying you to do nothing all day but to feed your obsession here on BBI?
What a dumbass post. Go tell your employer about your habits during work first.
Jones is a qb out of central casting until he gets on the field during a game and then the casting is "Nightmare on Elm Street" half the time
I don't know why we don't spend time rooting for Tomon Fox to become ten times better than Lawrence Taylor. Or DeVito to become the next Marino.
Yet so much time wishing Jones into existence as a good player. It's the strangest thing I've ever seen.
If the Cowboys or Sales were paying Daniel Jones $47M this year this board would be filled with threads just posting laugh emojis.
Then they lost McKInney and Barkley.
You better be drafting very well to overcome that.
And what if Jones is good in 2024? So what? He improved in 2022 and that led to the train wreck of his 2023 season. A decent 2024 will mean nothing for 2025.
There’s nothing to root for except replacing him.
Some are on this thread.
One started a thread on the topic promoting the idea.
This is a thread about some good things that DJ is doing. Some folks have come in here to shit on Jones and also to shit on people that are supporting him.
Those people are assholes.
Probably some who root against Jones having success. Most of those were the same one pushing to draft Willis at pick 5 or 7.
Not that it matters what anybody roots for, but in order, these would be the two best scenarios for me:
1) Jones flips a switch and suddenly becomes an upper tier NFL QB (4000 yards, 25-30 TDs, 7.5 Y/A)
2) Jones completely flops and the Giants have no other choice but to move on.
Anything between those two options is purgatory, because evidence suggests the Giants will look for reasons to keep him rather than vice versa.
Probably some who root against Jones having success. Most of those were the same one pushing to draft Willis at pick 5 or 7.
That's an unfair criticism. Willis has only played in the NFL for 2 years. Everyone knows that you have to wait until year 6 or 7 to wait for a breakout to truly be able to evaluate a QB.
What I don't want is another season that produces more questions than answers, and the experiment to drag on.
I'll be shocked if Jones magically develops into a quarterback that puts the Giants in contention for a championship. The same level of shock I'd feel if Azeez Ojulari develops into an All Pro pass rusher. I think those odds are about the same.
This isn't a particularly difficult or exotic view point to understand.
It was a joke about how lots of people on here are very comfortable calling every other QB bad after 2 years, but Jones needs nearly a decade as an unquestioned starter to fairly evaluate him.
Malik Willis sucks, and would have been a mistake to draft at 5 or 7. Similarly, Daniel Jones sucks and it was a mistake to draft him at 6. Both can be (and are) true
Accepting that Jones sucks is to accept some harder truths:
3. The Giants care too much about things that have nothing to do with winning football games
This point needs to be repeated, and often. Although I wouldn't use "too much" about the non-winning things the Giants care about, I'd say they care most about making money for the franchise. And you know what? The anxiety about Jones is going to make a ton of money for the Giants. Just look how many on BBI post about it, and think about how many fans will watch the games, go to the games, buy merchandise, etc.
Jones is a money-maker, and not because he's a good QB. Is he the best money-maker possible? Probably not, but he's not bad for business.
People already changed the tone of thread by calling out what others should and should not be rooting for.
Are you blind?
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To come into a thread about Jones getting the team together for workouts into an opportunity to tell everyone that he sucks is borderline obsessive.
People already changed the tone of thread by calling out what others should and should not be rooting for.
That is not what happened.
No, that's literally what happened. One of BBI's resident twerps offered that up fives posts into thread. Which turned the direction of the conversation.
I am not rooting for Daniel Jones. I am rooting for the Giants. I am rooting for them to wake up from this nightmare and do better.
I am not rooting for Daniel Jones. I am rooting for the Giants. I am rooting for them to wake up from this nightmare and do better.
If it didn’t didn’t apply to “young Daniel” then they wouldn’t have tried to get Maye
Try again
Try again[/quote]
This tired point doesn't apply. We're debating how fans feel, not what the organization may or may not have considered doing.
Try again
This tired point doesn't apply. We're debating how fans feel, not what the organization may or may not have considered doing. [/quote]
About as tired as I am of the multiple DJ threads with the same people literally saying the exact same things
"but there is a case to be made that rooting for Daniel is rooting for the Giants to stay a bad football team."
Why not say that you are rooting for Jones to play badly so that the Giants acquire a new QB?
There is no rationale for a Giants fan to celebrate Jones playing poorly. There is winning and losing. There is no tomorrow, there is today.
If Jones plays well and the Giants win that is the best outcome.
Your disdain for Jones clouds your judgment and is irrational. If the Giants win with Jones, that is all a fan can hope for.
Nobody believes that Jones is a great QB. But if he can be a winning QB that would be great.
He has already demonstrated that he can take a team to the playoffs and win a playoff game. If he can do that and more I would be satisfied.
I cannot imagine how badly you would feel if the Giants were to win the Super Bowl with Jones.
Nice spin
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"but there is a case to be made that rooting for Daniel is rooting for the Giants to stay a bad football team."
Why not say that you are rooting for Jones to play badly so that the Giants acquire a new QB?
There is no rationale for a Giants fan to celebrate Jones playing poorly. There is winning and losing. There is no tomorrow, there is today.
There are lots of tomorrows.
He is the .1% rooting against Jones. He may not admit it but it’s an absolute fact.
Of which you are under no obligation to participate.
You're contribution to this site resembles a broken chat bot. You're bordering on Lines of Scrimmage Great Destruction territory.
We could be debating the color of the turf and odds are your response would be "But the Giants considered trading for Maye."
Many of us don't find a compelling difference between Daniel Jones, and any other mediocre-to-bad player that's passed through the halls over the last decade.
I didn't see the uproar and fandom litmus tests applied to Nate Solder, Kenny Golladay, and Darren Waller. All guys who had more glimpses of quality play before ultimately sucking after signing a big deal with the Giants.
Why is it OK to be happy those guys are gone and not want Daniel Jones gone?
Quote:
About as tired as I am of the multiple DJ threads with the same people literally saying the exact same things
Of which you are under no obligation to participate.
You're contribution to this site resembles a broken chat bot. You're bordering on Lines of Scrimmage Great Destruction territory.
We could be debating the color of the turf and odds are your response would be "But the Giants considered trading for Maye."
Many of us don't find a compelling difference between Daniel Jones, and any other mediocre-to-bad player that's passed through the halls over the last decade.
I didn't see the uproar and fandom litmus tests applied to Nate Solder, Kenny Golladay, and Darren Waller. All guys who had more glimpses of quality play before ultimately sucking after signing a big deal with the Giants.
Why is it OK to be happy those guys are gone and not want Daniel Jones gone?
Nor are you under any obligation to respond to my posts either
If you don’t like what I have to say don’t respond as opposed to consistently taking personnel shots at me
Reflects more poorly on you that you choose to take the personal route
He is the .1% rooting against Jones. He may not admit it but it’s an absolute fact.
You can include me in that as well.
I'd much rather the Giants win 2 games than 7.
He is the .1% rooting against Jones. He may not admit it but it’s an absolute fact.
I am rooting for him not to play for the Giants anymore. My interpretation of being a Giants fan is wanting them to have good players and win. I don't want them to have bad players and lose. I don't know why that bothers you or why you clearly care so much about what I root for. I don't care what you root for. In fact if you didn't follow me around so much I wouldn't notice you at all.
Of which you are under no obligation to participate.
You're contribution to this site resembles a broken chat bot. You're bordering on Lines of Scrimmage Great Destruction territory.
We could be debating the color of the turf and odds are your response would be "But the Giants considered trading for Maye."
Many of us don't find a compelling difference between Daniel Jones, and any other mediocre-to-bad player that's passed through the halls over the last decade.
I didn't see the uproar and fandom litmus tests applied to Nate Solder, Kenny Golladay, and Darren Waller. All guys who had more glimpses of quality play before ultimately sucking after signing a big deal with the Giants.
Why is it OK to be happy those guys are gone and not want Daniel Jones gone?
Nor are you under any obligation to respond to my posts either
If you don’t like what I have to say don’t respond as opposed to consistently taking personnel shots at me
Reflects more poorly on you that you choose to take the personal route
Pointing out that you repeat yourself, and inject the same point in debates completely out of context is not a personal shot at you.
That's a factual criticism of the content your are contributing to the conversation.
I'll gladly debate football with you. For starters, what does Maye have to do with how Terps and I feel about Daniel Jones?
Pretty impressed Christian hasn't told another fairy tale story about himself on this thread. I guess he recognized the red flags in that story of his.
Quote:
About as tired as I am of the multiple DJ threads with the same people literally saying the exact same things
Of which you are under no obligation to participate.
You're contribution to this site resembles a broken chat bot. You're bordering on Lines of Scrimmage Great Destruction territory.
We could be debating the color of the turf and odds are your response would be "But the Giants considered trading for Maye."
Many of us don't find a compelling difference between Daniel Jones, and any other mediocre-to-bad player that's passed through the halls over the last decade.
I didn't see the uproar and fandom litmus tests applied to Nate Solder, Kenny Golladay, and Darren Waller. All guys who had more glimpses of quality play before ultimately sucking after signing a big deal with the Giants.
Why is it OK to be happy those guys are gone and not want Daniel Jones gone?
Nor are you under any obligation to respond to my posts either
If you don’t like what I have to say don’t respond as opposed to consistently taking personnel shots at me
Reflects more poorly on you that you choose to take the personal route
Pointing out that you repeat yourself, and inject the same point in debates completely out of context is not a personal shot at you.
That's a factual criticism of the content your are contributing to the conversation.
I'll gladly debate football with you. For starters, what does Maye have to do with how Terps and I feel about Daniel Jones?
The point was made that the Giants are happy with Jones…. Was it not?
It is more then fair to counter that point of view and say that if they were happy with him, then they wouldn’t have tried to draft his replacement whether it be Maye or anybody else
I agree with you and others that we need to move on from him….that is not up for debate
I differ with you on the organizations view point on him and am using the Maye example to try and back up my opinion
Nothing more
Do you cringe every time Jones completes a pass and celebrates his sacks?
Will you cease to be a Giant fan if the Giants win the NFC East and two playoff games next year?
I cannot fathom a Giant fan starting a season hoping they lose. I can't comprehend that thinking.
Your hatred for Jones is greater than your love of the team.
Darwinian/Manhattan/jinkies/Producer
hasn't once again risen from the dead to join this shitshow of a thread.
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Do you cringe every time Jones completes a pass and celebrates his sacks?
Will you cease to be a Giant fan if the Giants win the NFC East and two playoff games next year?
I cannot fathom a Giant fan starting a season hoping they lose. I can't comprehend that thinking.
Your hatred for Jones is greater than your love of the team.
I can't comprehend pretending bad players are good just because they play on the team I root for.
I don't hate Jones. I hate entering a season knowing it's going to take an alignment of the stars just to win 9 games because the team is married to a terrible QB.
The point was made that the Giants are happy with Jones…. Was it not?
The point is that when some fans want the Giants to cut ties with Jones, that's allegedly bad fandom.
Go Terps : 11:28 am : link : reply
If the Giants built the offense around Parris Campbell and gave him $160M we'd all want them to acknowledge the error and move on. For some reason that doesn't apply to young Daniel.
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
I almost feel bad for you when you fall for it. Next time champ!
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
They don't have one now, so why the hell wouldn't they try to find one?
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Exactly. No one hates Jones and no one is rooting for him to fail. He's done that all on his own.
And no matter how the Giants really feel about him, they keep voting with their actions.
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People already changed the tone of thread by calling out what others should and should not be rooting for.
That is not what happened.
No, that's literally what happened. One of BBI's resident twerps offered that up fives posts into thread. Which turned the direction of the conversation.
... That is a horrible stretch.
Some of the posters here simply want to reiterate that they believe they're smarter than everybody else and that no matter what, everybody else needs to believe that Daniel Jones needs to fail.
You're either rooting for him or you're not... Unless you literally want him to be mediocre.
It seems you are trying to have it both ways.
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Has admitted in the past rooting against jones and for the Giants to lose with him as QB.
He is the .1% rooting against Jones. He may not admit it but it’s an absolute fact.
You can include me in that as well.
I'd much rather the Giants win 2 games than 7.
Not what I saiid or what I think you want to believe.
If Jones magically turned into a MVP leading us to a SB this year - I would imagine you be very excited, cheering him on, and giving him compliments.
Go Terps has openly rooted for him to fail. There’s a big diffeeence no matter however he tries to spin it.
Many fans are quite passionate about sports. If a fan sees a particular player as being in the way of them enjoying their sport(s) then I can realistically see them actually 'hating' a player. The thing is, most would not dare admit it.
Do I think some fans actually hate Jones? Yep. I think there is a realistic possibility some of those fans participate in this forum.
I do agree that critiquing a player does not necessarily mean hating a player. I also think the labeling of hate goes too far and is often over-used. Each fan knows if their dislike of a player has drifted into actually hating them or not.
... That is a horrible stretch.
Some of the posters here simply want to reiterate that they believe they're smarter than everybody else and that no matter what, everybody else needs to believe that Daniel Jones needs to fail.
You're either rooting for him or you're not... Unless you literally want him to be mediocre.
It seems you are trying to have it both ways.
No need to get pissy. You made a simple provable mistake and I showed you the evidence.
As far as what other posters need, I'm not in the business of divining those intentions and I'm pretty sure you're not very good at it either.
Let's try and debate on the statements people have actually made. That's difficult enough given the venue, without treading into mind reading.
For me, my wishes are clear. I want Jones to play great football. I don't expect that, and based on his past don't believe that will happen.
If he doesn't play great football, I'd prefer he fail unequivocally so the Giants can move on.
Now we have casual fans who think they are draft experts. The fans and other so-called experts believe we should have taken JJ, Penix or Nix this year. Go-Terps said "Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB." Seriously Terps? What about all the QB's drafted during this time who are not franhise QBs. There are far more misses than hits not to mention coaches who don't know how to develop a QB or the turnover of coaches. And other factors that make or break a QB such as the talent around them, injuries etc.
Life is too short to hope for next year or the year after. Some of us won't be on the planet next year. Too bad we can't all act like HopeJ. I will root for the Giants and DJ8 to win no matter what. And I'm not wasting my bosses time since I'm retired. I'm going to go play with my grandson since this palace is so freakin divisive and negative.
At least I don't lose sleep anymore or act like a fool over a game I don't have any control over.
By the way, I remember when we (BBI) drove off Kent Grahams family. Was it this bad then?! I don't know. No wonder BB56 stays away from here so often.
Short of personally hating him, I hate basically everything about him as a Giant.
I hate how little he plays, I hate how lost he looks on the football field, I hate how much losing he's been a part of. I hate how much the Giants appear paralyzed in making a change.
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wow talk about a snowflake...
... That is a horrible stretch.
Some of the posters here simply want to reiterate that they believe they're smarter than everybody else and that no matter what, everybody else needs to believe that Daniel Jones needs to fail.
You're either rooting for him or you're not... Unless you literally want him to be mediocre.
It seems you are trying to have it both ways.
No need to get pissy. You made a simple provable mistake and I showed you the evidence.
As far as what other posters need, I'm not in the business of divining those intentions and I'm pretty sure you're not very good at it either.
Let's try and debate on the statements people have actually made. That's difficult enough given the venue, without treading into mind reading.
For me, my wishes are clear. I want Jones to play great football. I don't expect that, and based on his past don't believe that will happen.
If he doesn't play great football, I'd prefer he fail unequivocally so the Giants can move on.
I just wish that when there is a thread that is clearly discussing something positive about Jones that it might just stay that way.
There are too many people that need to remind themselves that they are more important than the discussion.
The threads become about posters rather than the OP.
For me, my wishes are clear. I want Jones to play great football. I don't expect that, and based on his past don't believe that will happen.
If he doesn't play great football, I'd prefer he fail unequivocally so the Giants can move on.
That's fair, and you're right, my apologies.
I just wish that when there is a thread that is clearly discussing something positive about Jones that it might just stay that way.
There are too many people that need to remind themselves that they are more important than the discussion.
The threads become about posters rather than the OP.
You and I are always good, you are one of my favorite BBIers and I thoroughly respect you and your knowledge of football.
Nothing would make happier than being wrong about Jones. But this is the same logic as being wrong about Solder, Golladay, or Waller.
I wanted them to succeed, but they repeatedly fell short.
The Giants had the good sense to cut ties with Golladay as quickly as possible. They didn't have that good sense with Solder.
I will root for the miraculous this year with Jones because he's on the roster. But I will not root for mediocrity that will increase the odds of more mediocrity.
Now we have casual fans who think they are draft experts. The fans and other so-called experts believe we should have taken JJ, Penix or Nix this year. Go-Terps said "Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB." Seriously Terps? What about all the QB's drafted during this time who are not franhise QBs. There are far more misses than hits not to mention coaches who don't know how to develop a QB or the turnover of coaches. And other factors that make or break a QB such as the talent around them, injuries etc.
Apparently life isn't too short to make excuses for a QB drafted #6 overall who is going to cost $47 million against the cap this year.
What available QBs would you have drafted last year?
What available QB would you have drafted in 2023?
What are your credentials to make the evaluation?
Why should I trust your judgment?
Did you play college football, perhaps you played QB?
What are the metrics that you use to evaluate a QB?
This is all b...t
I can't stand hearing armchair QBs who have no clue talking as if they are experts. You know more than the coaches, more than the GM.
Aren't you the one who contended that Taylor was a better QB than Jones?
Didn't you say that the Giants should sign Wilson?
I am not defending Jones but there are worse options out there. I hope that Jones turns it around and has a great year. I hope that the Giants win the Super Bowl.
Quote:
In comment 16544115 JT039 said:
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Has admitted in the past rooting against jones and for the Giants to lose with him as QB.
He is the .1% rooting against Jones. He may not admit it but it’s an absolute fact.
You can include me in that as well.
I'd much rather the Giants win 2 games than 7.
Not what I saiid or what I think you want to believe.
If Jones magically turned into a MVP leading us to a SB this year - I would imagine you be very excited, cheering him on, and giving him compliments.
Go Terps has openly rooted for him to fail. There’s a big diffeeence no matter however he tries to spin it.
My interpretation is that Terps just wants it to be obvious to ownership/management that it is time to move on.
But there is one key thing that is absolutely not a matter of opinion: for the last decade the Giants have been one of the very worst run organizations in the league. I believe the Giants' unconditional love for young Daniel is just the latest in a long line of symptoms telling us what the disease infecting the Giants is: incompetent ownership.
Quote:
against him have a weird obsession with wanting to be "right."
Nothing would make happier than being wrong about Jones. But this is the same logic as being wrong about Solder, Golladay, or Waller.
I wanted them to succeed, but they repeatedly fell short.
The Giants had the good sense to cut ties with Golladay as quickly as possible. They didn't have that good sense with Solder.
I will root for the miraculous this year with Jones because he's on the roster. But I will not root for mediocrity that will increase the odds of more mediocrity.
They were never cutting ties with Solder. His family situation was too public.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
This is a good post.
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
Quote:
Do I think some fans actually hate Jones? Yep. I think there is a realistic possibility some of those fans participate in this forum.
Short of personally hating him, I hate basically everything about him as a Giant.
I hate how little he plays, I hate how lost he looks on the football field, I hate how much losing he's been a part of. I hate how much the Giants appear paralyzed in making a change.
That is an understandable position. Personally, I think the term 'hate' gets used too often to describe things we simply don't like, BUT that is neither here or there and only my POV.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
Therein lies the problem. Let's assume everything you say is true, and Jones does have a decent statistical year.
Does anyone realistically think that the Giants as an organization are going to reach the conclusion that you (and many of us) have regarding a championship?
Like many posters here, the organization tends to see any signs of progress and evidence that "the arrow is pointing up".
Quote:
In comment 16544142 Archer said:
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
Speaking of posters who have openly admitted they have quit rooting for the Giants. You’re a “true” Giants fan… lol
The President of the GTFC. Radar went up really quick. And LMAO - you calling anyone a troll or any derogatory term.
Quote:
and the team will get better production from their QB, whoever it is. Look at all the lousy QBs that have their best game of the year against the Giants. On paper, the Giants should have better OL play. If that happens Jones will have better stats than previous seasons.
The question is, can they win a championship with Jones. Eeeeh, I doubt it (strongly).
Therein lies the problem. Let's assume everything you say is true, and Jones does have a decent statistical year.
Does anyone realistically think that the Giants as an organization are going to reach the conclusion that you (and many of us) have regarding a championship?
Like many posters here, the organization tends to see any signs of progress and evidence that "the arrow is pointing up".
So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
I'd say that's a hell of a season that I for sure didn't see coming, and that in doing so he bought himself 2025 for sure.
What would YOU do if those numbers are 3200 and 19?
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So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
I'd say that's a hell of a season that I for sure didn't see coming, and that in doing so he bought himself 2025 for sure.
What would YOU do if those numbers are 3200 and 19?
Same thing I would have done last year. Draft a QB. Unfortunately we didn’t.
And FYI, I do not believe he will reach my numbers - I was only speak hypotheticals. However - I do expect him to play better but to a level worth keeping.
So if he has over 4000 yards and 30 TDs - what would you do?!?
I'd say that's a hell of a season that I for sure didn't see coming, and that in doing so he bought himself 2025 for sure.
What would YOU do if those numbers are 3200 and 19?
Same thing I would have done last year. Draft a QB. Unfortunately we didn’t.
And FYI, I do not believe he will reach my numbers - I was only speak hypotheticals. However - I do expect him to play better but to a level worth keeping.
Fair. Two questions, then.
1) What is that level, in your estimation?
2) Do you think the Giants would view my hypothetical numbers the same way you do?
On the latter, I have my doubts. That's why this conversation matters. I believe that as an organization they would see that as enough improvement coming off ACL surgery to give him another year - and that I would absolutely hate.
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In comment 16544159 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 16544142 Archer said:
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
Speaking of posters who have openly admitted they have quit rooting for the Giants. You’re a “true” Giants fan… lol
The President of the GTFC. Radar went up really quick. And LMAO - you calling anyone a troll or any derogatory term.
Insults are the primary tool of the defeated. That and changing your handle as often as necessary to dodge accountability for being consistently dead wrong.
Disregard question 1 above then. But question 2 is the more relevant one anyway.
And now you hate the Giant's management.
If they do not build a team to your standards they are all idiots.
Winning is no longer your litmus test.
You are not old enough to remember how Sims was vilified or that many fans wanted to dispose of Eli.
They hated Phil and Eli, and they blamed management.
This reaction is cyclical. Losing breeds discontent.
What makes this different is that I have never heard a Giants fan root for losses specifically to facilitate the removal of a player.
While fans criticized players they universally hoped for improvement. They wanted wins at any cost. That was how you valued your team.
This has become personal and even if Jones had an MVP year you would be disappointed call it a flake and want a new QB.
Quote:
In comment 16544142 Archer said:
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Great post Terps. Anybody who doesn't see the nuance here is either a shill, delusional optimist or gaslighting troll. Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL. This has been well understood for years, and yet this management team made him the highest paid player in Giants franchise history. Who gives a flying rat's ass as to his offseason kumbaya activities.
And as Christian points out, Rory started this with his gaslighting edict to root for a specific player rather than the Giants team as a whole. No statement could be more offensive to a true Giants fan.
Worst QB to ever play the position?
Guess you were fed paint chips as a child 😂😂😂
Justin Fields got 2 years
Kenny Pickett got 1 year
Mac Jones got 2 years
Zac Wilson got 2 years
Trey Lance got 4 games
Baker Mayfield got 4 years
Josh Rosen got 1 year
What has Daniel Jones shown on the field on game days that merits an unchallenged NFL starting QB job for 6 seasons? It's infuriating to a large section of the Giants fan base that because the owners "like" him Daniel Jones is treated like a tenured college professor regardless of his resume.
In 2022, the year that made him 80 million guaranteed dollars, by any measure Daniel Jones was an average at best QB. The other 4 years he's played for the Giants he's been a bottom 10 or bottom 5 QB by any measure.
Name another team in the NFL that would have Daniel Jones as their unchallenged starter in year 6 with his resume coming off a second neck and ACL injuries. It's NFL football malpractice. We can't fly planes over the stadium anymore so we vent on BBI.
Justin Fields got 2 years
Kenny Pickett got 1 year
Mac Jones got 2 years
Zac Wilson got 2 years
Trey Lance got 4 games
Baker Mayfield got 4 years
Josh Rosen got 1 year
What has Daniel Jones shown on the field on game days that merits an unchallenged NFL starting QB job for 6 seasons? It's infuriating to a large section of the Giants fan base that because the owners "like" him Daniel Jones is treated like a tenured college professor regardless of his resume.
In 2022, the year that made him 80 million guaranteed dollars, by any measure Daniel Jones was an average at best QB. The other 4 years he's played for the Giants he's been a bottom 10 or bottom 5 QB by any measure.
Name another team in the NFL that would have Daniel Jones as their unchallenged starter in year 6 with his resume coming off a second neck and ACL injuries. It's NFL football malpractice. We can't fly planes over the stadium anymore so we vent on BBI.
Exactly. I would expect HardTruth to be educating this board as we go forward with FACTS comparing quarterbacks with 60 or more starts in NFL history. Not emotional pleas, laughable insults or trolling nonsense. I think you will be hard pressed to find any other quarterback in NFL history who has performed as poorly as DJ has given a six year starting runway and seemingly limitless "scholarship" support to try to achieve success in this league.
Quote:
In comment 16544142 Archer said:
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL.
Wow, you are 100% delusional, don't know a thing about football history or just trying to look like an idiot.
Daniel Jones 62 TDs (not including rushing) 40 INTs, 85 rating.
62 TDs and 40 INTs, plus the rushing TDs, a playoff win... it's not top 100 in NFL history but it ain't anywhere near the bottom. In fact in the game's history it's WAY closer to the top than the bottom.
QBR for a few players behind DJ:
23 Rich Gannon 84.71
24 Marc Bulger 84.41
25 Jim Kelly* 84.39
26 Jay Cutler 84.03
27 Mark Brunell 83.99
28 Roger Staubach* 83.42
29 Matthew Stafford 82.79
30 Steve McNair 82.76
31 Eli Manning 82.71
32 Brian Griese 82.70
33 Neil Lomax 82.68
34 Sonny Jurgensen* 82.62
35 Len Dawson* 82.56
36 Jason Campbell 82.52
37 Brad Johnson 82.50
38 Matt Hasselbeck 82.19
39 Ken Anderson 81.86
40 Bernie Kosar 81.83
41 Neil O'Donnell 81.82
42 Danny White 81.71
43 Troy Aikman* 81.62
44 Dave Krieg 81.50
45 Randall Cunningham 81.47
46 Jake Delhomme 81.35
47 Boomer Esiason 81.06
48 Warren Moon* 80.90
49 Michael Vick 80.59
50 Jeff Hostetler 80.48
51 Bart Starr* 80.47
52 Ken O'Brien 80.44
53 Jeff George 80.42
54 Matt Cassel 80.39
55 Fran Tarkenton* 80.35
56 Steve Beuerlein 80.32
57 Dan Fouts* 80.23
58 John Elway* 79.86
59 Josh Freeman 79.77
60 Kyle Orton 79.74
61 Tony Eason 79.72
62 Elvis Grbac 79.65
63 Alex Smith 79.14
64 Chris Chandler 79.12
65 Mark Rypien 78.93
66 Byron Leftwich 78.85
67 Jim Everett 78.59
68 Aaron Brooks 78.53
69 Phil Simms 78.48
70 Bert Jones 78.21
71 Johnny Unitas* 78.20
72T Jim McMahon 78.17
72T Otto Graham* 78.17
74 Jeff Blake 78.03
75 Bobby Hebert 78.00
76 Frank Ryan 77.61
77 Jim Harbaugh 77.60
78 Jon Kitna 77.41
79 Joe Theismann 77.37
80 Charlie Batch 77.22
81 Bob Griese* 77.14
82 Jay Fiedler 77.13
83 Drew Bledsoe 77.06
84 Bill Kenney 76.98
85 Ryan Fitzpatrick 76.85
86 Erik Kramer 76.64
87 Gary Danielson 76.58
88 Doug Flutie 76.34
89 Stan Humphries 75.83
90 Wade Wilson 75.57
91 Steve Bartkowski 75.44
92 Ken Stabler 75.31
93 Scott Mitchell 75.28
94 Steve Bono 75.27
95 Tim Couch 75.14
96 Norm Van Brocklin* 75.07
97 Sid Luckman* 75.01
98 Vinny Testaverde 75.00
99 Chris Miller 74.93
100 David Carr 74.89
101 Don Meredith 74.84
102 Brian Sipe 74.79
103 Jake Plummer 74.61
104 Roman Gabriel 74.29
105T Gus Frerotte 74.24
105T Steve DeBerg 74.24
107 Earl Morrall 74.09
108 Kerry Collins 73.76
109 Y.A. Tittle* 73.65
110 Craig Morton 73.52
111 Rodney Peete 73.30
112 Don Majkowski 72.95
113T Daryle Lamonica 72.94
113T Greg Landry 72.94
115 Ron Jaworski 72.78
116 Tommy Kramer 72.77
117 Tony Banks 72.36
118 Bubby Brister 72.28
119 John Brodie 72.27
120 Milt Plum 72.22
121 Sammy Baugh* 72.21
122 Billy Wade 72.19
123 Mark Sanchez 71.70
124 Jay Schroeder 71.68
125 Billy Kilmer 71.56
126 Bill Munson 71.49
127 Rex Grossman 71.36
128 Lynn Dickey 70.94
129 Terry Bradshaw* 70.92
130 Kordell Stewart 70.69
131 Bill Nelsen 70.25
132 Trent Dilfer 70.18
133 Vince Ferragamo 70.08
134 Steve Grogan 69.61
135 Kyle Boller 69.54
136 Doug Williams 69.39
137 Joey Harrington 69.38
138 Charley Johnson 69.21
139 Mike Tomczak 68.91
140 Eric Hipple 68.68
141 Joe Ferguson 68.45
142 Charlie Conerly 68.25
143 Dave Brown 67.89
144 Billy Joe Tolliver 67.74
145 Marc Wilson 67.70
146 Tom Flores 67.58
147 Richard Todd 67.57
148 Jim Plunkett 67.45
149 John Hadl 67.41
150 Jim Zorn 67.28
151 Archie Manning 67.10
152 Jim Hart 66.56
153 Norm Snead 65.54
154 Joe Namath* 65.46
155 Rick Mirer 63.53
156 Bobby Layne* 63.38
157 Jack Trudeau 63.32
158 Mike Livingston 63.27
159 Mike Pagel 63.26
160 Ed Brown 62.77
161 Mark Malone 61.89
162 Bob Waterfield* 61.58
163 Eddie LeBaron 61.43
164 George Blanda* 60.65
165 Babe Parilli 59.59
166 Dan Pastorini 59.06
167 Jack Kemp 57.35
168 Tobin Rote 56.79
169 Cotton Davidson 54.88
170 Mike Phipps 52.63
171 Frank Tripucka
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Not to a level worth keeping.
Disregard question 1 above then. But question 2 is the more relevant one anyway.
I’ll reply to this one… haha.
I hope not. IMO, the only reason to keep him is if they make a serious playoff run. Other than that - I believe the writing is on the wall.
[quote] In comment 16544314 The Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 16544159 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 16544142 Archer said:
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL.
Wow, you are 100% delusional, don't know a thing about football history or just trying to look like an idiot.
Daniel Jones 62 TDs (not including rushing) 40 INTs, 85 rating.
62 TDs and 40 INTs, plus the rushing TDs, a playoff win... it's not top 100 in NFL history but it ain't anywhere near the bottom. In fact in the game's history it's WAY closer to the top than the bottom.
QBR for a few players behind DJ:
23 Rich Gannon 84.71
24 Marc Bulger 84.41
25 Jim Kelly* 84.39
26 Jay Cutler 84.03
27 Mark Brunell 83.99
28 Roger Staubach* 83.42
29 Matthew Stafford 82.79
30 Steve McNair 82.76
31 Eli Manning 82.71
32 Brian Griese 82.70
33 Neil Lomax 82.68
34 Sonny Jurgensen* 82.62
35 Len Dawson* 82.56
36 Jason Campbell 82.52
37 Brad Johnson 82.50
38 Matt Hasselbeck 82.19
39 Ken Anderson 81.86
40 Bernie Kosar 81.83
41 Neil O'Donnell 81.82
42 Danny White 81.71
43 Troy Aikman* 81.62
44 Dave Krieg 81.50
45 Randall Cunningham 81.47
46 Jake Delhomme 81.35
47 Boomer Esiason 81.06
48 Warren Moon* 80.90
49 Michael Vick 80.59
50 Jeff Hostetler 80.48
51 Bart Starr* 80.47
52 Ken O'Brien 80.44
53 Jeff George 80.42
54 Matt Cassel 80.39
55 Fran Tarkenton* 80.35
56 Steve Beuerlein 80.32
57 Dan Fouts* 80.23
58 John Elway* 79.86
59 Josh Freeman 79.77
60 Kyle Orton 79.74
61 Tony Eason 79.72
62 Elvis Grbac 79.65
63 Alex Smith 79.14
64 Chris Chandler 79.12
65 Mark Rypien 78.93
66 Byron Leftwich 78.85
67 Jim Everett 78.59
68 Aaron Brooks 78.53
69 Phil Simms 78.48
70 Bert Jones 78.21
71 Johnny Unitas* 78.20
72T Jim McMahon 78.17
72T Otto Graham* 78.17
74 Jeff Blake 78.03
75 Bobby Hebert 78.00
76 Frank Ryan 77.61
77 Jim Harbaugh 77.60
78 Jon Kitna 77.41
79 Joe Theismann 77.37
80 Charlie Batch 77.22
81 Bob Griese* 77.14
82 Jay Fiedler 77.13
83 Drew Bledsoe 77.06
84 Bill Kenney 76.98
85 Ryan Fitzpatrick 76.85
86 Erik Kramer 76.64
87 Gary Danielson 76.58
88 Doug Flutie 76.34
89 Stan Humphries 75.83
90 Wade Wilson 75.57
91 Steve Bartkowski 75.44
92 Ken Stabler 75.31
So now Daniel Jones is better than Jim Kelly, Roger Staubach and Johnny Unitas? Not to mention Ken Stabler, John Elway and Dan Fouts. Really! This is everything I ever need to know about your football acumen. And more importantly, why there is such a bizarre love affair many fans of this team have with Daniel Jones. Stockholm Syndrome at its finest.
Quote:
What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
If DJ was drafted by the Eagles, 49ers, Miami,…would he be on your ‘good QB’ list while we lament being stuck with Hurts, Purdy, or Tua?
And the poster NEVER once said he was better than any of those QBs. He actually said he wasn’t even top 100.
Reading is not your forte.
And now you hate the Giant's management.
If they do not build a team to your standards they are all idiots.
Winning is no longer your litmus test.
You are not old enough to remember how Sims was vilified or that many fans wanted to dispose of Eli.
They hated Phil and Eli, and they blamed management.
This reaction is cyclical. Losing breeds discontent.
What makes this different is that I have never heard a Giants fan root for losses specifically to facilitate the removal of a player.
While fans criticized players they universally hoped for improvement. They wanted wins at any cost. That was how you valued your team.
This has become personal and even if Jones had an MVP year you would be disappointed call it a flake and want a new QB.
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback. It's easy for you to ask whether I'd hate him if he won the Super Bowl, won MVP, or cured cancer. His odds of doing any of the three are the same, and we'll never get an answer to that hypothetical question.
I'll say again I don't hate Jones. I actually respect him and his agent for taking advantage of the idiots running this team. Jones has turned meager NFL abilities into a fortune. He was not recruited coming out of high school, and he wasn't particularly good in college...but he parlayed that into a lot of money. He's an inspiration for untalented people that are willing to work hard.
It would help if you read what I said.
I compared your reaction to Jones and how Eli and Sims were treated.
Both Eli and Phil were vilified but did not fans root against them.
That never happened.
I have never seen anyone root against success.
This is new to me.
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
The point was made that the Giants are happy with Jones…. Was it not?
It is more then fair to counter that point of view and say that if they were happy with him, then they wouldn’t have tried to draft his replacement whether it be Maye or anybody else
Do you remember the rumor about the Giants interest in McCarthy? Followed by the rumor that Schoen was upset by the rumor about McCarthy? Well, as it turned out those were obviously false rumors or the Giants would've been happy to take McCarthy when they were on the clock. But we'll be hearing about how the Giants tried to trade up for Drake Maye for the next two or three years simply because it's not a rumor that can be proven false.
Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
I also predict that you will not be happy with that result.
You will continue to bash Jones and management. You will explain that this is the worst-case scenario as the Giants will be stuck with Jones.
You have gone on record stating that Jones is the worst QB in the NFL and that the Giants are poorly constructed.
So we will see who is right.
If the Giants are as bad as last year I will acknowledge that the Giants need a new QB and new management.
It would help if you read what I said.
I compared your reaction to Jones and how Eli and Sims were treated.
Both Eli and Phil were vilified but did not fans root against them.
That never happened.
I have never seen anyone root against success.
This is new to me.
I'd argue Jones has been treated brilliantly. You can argue he has the best salary to production ratio of any player in the NFL. Best from the player's perspective anyway.
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In comment 16544422 Go Terps said:
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
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In comment 16544484 MOOPS said:
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In comment 16544422 Go Terps said:
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
No it's too stupid to answer.
Yet you keep posting on it. And posting the same damn thing. What’s the purpose? You think you’re going to convince everyone of posting things you don’t like? Keep up the good fight, I suppose. Good luck
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In comment 16544484 MOOPS said:
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In comment 16544422 Go Terps said:
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
In Simms’ 4th season as a starter (he was out injured in ‘82 and only played in 2 games in ‘83) he threw for over 4000 yards at 7.6 Y/A. Numbers Jones has never come close to. In his 6th season as a starter he won the Super Bowl and Super Bowl MVP.
And if you’re old enough to remember those days and you’re acting like you don’t understand the difference between the game back then and now then you are either lying your ass off or you’re absolutely clueless. Which is it?
I also predict that you will not be happy with that result.
You will continue to bash Jones and management. You will explain that this is the worst-case scenario as the Giants will be stuck with Jones.
You have gone on record stating that Jones is the worst QB in the NFL and that the Giants are poorly constructed.
So we will see who is right.
If the Giants are as bad as last year I will acknowledge that the Giants need a new QB and new management.
I predict Jones will have a mediocre 2024, the offense will average around 20 PPG, and the Giants will win 5-8 games. I also predict you'll be here a year from now asking why I'm not rooting for Jones to win MVP in 2025.
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In comment 16544494 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16544484 MOOPS said:
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In comment 16544422 Go Terps said:
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
No it's too stupid to answer.
Come on Terps. It's an easy question. Six years? Seven?
There's also the issue of Simms being a talented quarterback and Daniel Jones not being talented.
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about the team's QB getting together to work on their own in the offseason and shouted 'Lets go!' could he have imagined how sad and pathetic things would degrade to? Mods should pull this circus from being pinned.
Yet you keep posting on it. And posting the same damn thing. What’s the purpose? You think you’re going to convince everyone of posting things you don’t like? Keep up the good fight, I suppose. Good luck
Yes well, speaking of saying same thing and not convincing anyone --I know you're not new to the board, so you already know this --but this whole debate which hijacked the thread and you're defending is exactly that -repetitive and no one's mind being changed, only a million times over. You must know this, right? So there's that. And no, it's not my intend to "convince everyone of posting things you don’t like". I've chosen to express my displeasure about the utter derailment of a pinned thread. I wouldn't have thought that would be taken as out of bounds or controversial, LOL.
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In comment 16544494 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16544484 MOOPS said:
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In comment 16544422 Go Terps said:
I'm 45 years old. Simms was my favorite player growing up. I also loved Eli immensely, and supported him prior to that first Super Bowl.
It's insulting to them to compare them to Jones. They were good quarterbacks; Jones is a poor quarterback.
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
It's not 1984 anymore.
Sooooooo, the question is too tough for you to answer? Gotcha.
In Simms’ 4th season as a starter (he was out injured in ‘82 and only played in 2 games in ‘83) he threw for over 4000 yards at 7.6 Y/A. Numbers Jones has never come close to. In his 6th season as a starter he won the Super Bowl and Super Bowl MVP.
And if you’re old enough to remember those days and you’re acting like you don’t understand the difference between the game back then and now then you are either lying your ass off or you’re absolutely clueless. Which is it?
You realize Simms threw 18 picks and had 8 fumbles in 84 and followed that up with 20 picks and 16 fumbles in 85. He was benched in 83, correct?
No need to answer for Terps.
He's a big boy.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
But I'm also a realist. I think we know what Daniel Jones is...a mediocre @ best QB that is overpaid, doesn't lift up his teammates, is often injured, & doesn't really inspire any hope with a large segment of the fan base. Sure, nice guy...hard worker...all that jazz. But do even the most fervent Jones supporters ever see him leading us to a Super Bowl?
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
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In comment 16544598 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
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In comment 16544613 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 16544598 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
Good for you Shock.
Have a nice night. Just turned 5 o'clock here, so it's brewski time. Tata.
You have no idea if that's true. Just like every other GM and HC they work for owners. It's just as likely to believe that Jones has been forced on them than it is they believe they can win a Super Bowl with him.
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Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
You have no idea if that's true. Just like every other GM and HC they work for owners. It's just as likely to believe that Jones has been forced on them than it is they believe they can win a Super Bowl with him.
Also the idea that GMs and coaches can never be questioned is absurdity at its highest level. Gettleman and Joe Judge are considered to be more qualified than any of us as well. Turns out they were incompetent clown shows.
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
This is the revelation you have raised previously that to me is most shocking. I think you are right. Given the astronomical Trevor Lawrence contract, and the expected contract for Dak coming next year, the Giants are likely quite content with the 2025 price tag for their favorite son. Not recognizing of course the overwhelming opportunity cost of not moving on in a direction that gets this franchise back to a sensible post DJ Era rebuild. So even if DJ has a horrible year, especially if it is due to injury and/or the myriad of typical excuses related to OL and receivers, I think he is likely back next year.
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I don't think it's a put up or shut up year at all. I think the economics of his deal make it a near lock he's back in 2025.
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
This is the revelation you have raised previously that to me is most shocking. I think you are right. Given the astronomical Trevor Lawrence contract, and the expected contract for Dak coming next year, the Giants are likely quite content with the 2025 price tag for their favorite son. Not recognizing of course the overwhelming opportunity cost of not moving on in a direction that gets this franchise back to a sensible post DJ Era rebuild. So even if DJ has a horrible year, especially if it is due to injury and/or the myriad of typical excuses related to OL and receivers, I think he is likely back next year.
Typical excuses of the OL?
Do you actually watch the games?
Yikes
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In comment 16544672 christian said:
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I don't think it's a put up or shut up year at all. I think the economics of his deal make it a near lock he's back in 2025.
The only way I believe he's gone is if he stays healthy and has a horrible year.
This is the revelation you have raised previously that to me is most shocking. I think you are right. Given the astronomical Trevor Lawrence contract, and the expected contract for Dak coming next year, the Giants are likely quite content with the 2025 price tag for their favorite son. Not recognizing of course the overwhelming opportunity cost of not moving on in a direction that gets this franchise back to a sensible post DJ Era rebuild. So even if DJ has a horrible year, especially if it is due to injury and/or the myriad of typical excuses related to OL and receivers, I think he is likely back next year.
Typical excuses of the OL?
Do you actually watch the games?
Yikes
There are some that are unworthy of your attention.
Nope
I do not
Time will tell what happens
No, but I don’t expect the organization to agree. I fully expect him to be the opening day starter in 2025 unless he’s either injured or completely stinks in 2024.
I know, the Giants tried to draft his replacement this year, but only a very specific replacement they clearly had no realistic chance of acquiring. So I don’t actually believe they were serious about it then and I don’t believe that at the top of the organization there was (or is) any desire to do move on from Jones.
[quote] In comment 16544314 The Mike said:
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In comment 16544159 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16544142 Archer said:
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What happens when the Giants change QBs?
The likelihood of finding a top 5-10 QB in the draft is remote.
So it is likely that you will be railing against the next selection.
Since 2018 the Giants have passed on Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Jordan Love, Jalen Hurts, and Brock Purdy. It isn't THAT rare to draft a good QB.
You have to try, though. And the Giants aren't doing that. They drafted a bad QB in 2019, which in itself is no sin. But rather than acknowledge their error they are throwing away years trying to prove they got that pick right.
THAT is the sin. I don't hate Jones. Playing QB in the NFL is hard and he can't do it. Neither can I. Neither can most people.
The people making the decision pay him and keep playing him...those people are screwing us. They are fucking up our football Sundays. Those are the guys I have a problem with.
Daniel Jones will ultimately be in the conversation as the worst quarterback ever to play the position in the NFL.
Wow, you are 100% delusional, don't know a thing about football history or just trying to look like an idiot.
Daniel Jones 62 TDs (not including rushing) 40 INTs, 85 rating.
62 TDs and 40 INTs, plus the rushing TDs, a playoff win... it's not top 100 in NFL history but it ain't anywhere near the bottom. In fact in the game's history it's WAY closer to the top than the bottom.
QBR for a few players behind DJ:
23 Rich Gannon 84.71
24 Marc Bulger 84.41
25 Jim Kelly* 84.39
26 Jay Cutler 84.03
27 Mark Brunell 83.99
28 Roger Staubach* 83.42
29 Matthew Stafford 82.79
30 Steve McNair 82.76
31 Eli Manning 82.71
32 Brian Griese 82.70
33 Neil Lomax 82.68
34 Sonny Jurgensen* 82.62
35 Len Dawson* 82.56
36 Jason Campbell 82.52
37 Brad Johnson 82.50
38 Matt Hasselbeck 82.19
39 Ken Anderson 81.86
40 Bernie Kosar 81.83
41 Neil O'Donnell 81.82
42 Danny White 81.71
43 Troy Aikman* 81.62
44 Dave Krieg 81.50
45 Randall Cunningham 81.47
46 Jake Delhomme 81.35
47 Boomer Esiason 81.06
48 Warren Moon* 80.90
49 Michael Vick 80.59
50 Jeff Hostetler 80.48
51 Bart Starr* 80.47
52 Ken O'Brien 80.44
53 Jeff George 80.42
54 Matt Cassel 80.39
55 Fran Tarkenton* 80.35
56 Steve Beuerlein 80.32
57 Dan Fouts* 80.23
58 John Elway* 79.86
59 Josh Freeman 79.77
60 Kyle Orton 79.74
61 Tony Eason 79.72
62 Elvis Grbac 79.65
63 Alex Smith 79.14
64 Chris Chandler 79.12
65 Mark Rypien 78.93
66 Byron Leftwich 78.85
67 Jim Everett 78.59
68 Aaron Brooks 78.53
69 Phil Simms 78.48
70 Bert Jones 78.21
71 Johnny Unitas* 78.20
72T Jim McMahon 78.17
72T Otto Graham* 78.17
74 Jeff Blake 78.03
75 Bobby Hebert 78.00
76 Frank Ryan 77.61
77 Jim Harbaugh 77.60
78 Jon Kitna 77.41
79 Joe Theismann 77.37
80 Charlie Batch 77.22
81 Bob Griese* 77.14
82 Jay Fiedler 77.13
83 Drew Bledsoe 77.06
84 Bill Kenney 76.98
85 Ryan Fitzpatrick 76.85
86 Erik Kramer 76.64
87 Gary Danielson 76.58
88 Doug Flutie 76.34
89 Stan Humphries 75.83
90 Wade Wilson 75.57
91 Steve Bartkowski 75.44
92 Ken Stabler 75.31
So now Daniel Jones is better than Jim Kelly, Roger Staubach and Johnny Unitas? Not to mention Ken Stabler, John Elway and Dan Fouts. Really! This is everything I ever need to know about your football acumen. And more importantly, why there is such a bizarre love affair many fans of this team have with Daniel Jones. Stockholm Syndrome at its finest.
See, I knew you'd go that route, even though I never suggested DJ was better than any of them. I was answering your ridiculous "worst QB in history" claim and I think I did it pretty well bruh.
Nice childish deflection....
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In comment 16544613 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 16544598 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
Your logic is the equivalent of dogging your wife behind her back and then saying you hope she becomes a good wife. The continued bashing of the QB of the team you say you love is a joke. Have an opinion, think he sucks, but the daily bashing here is a joke.
Was it OK to want Waller to retire and for the Giants to cut Glowinksi?
Why is disappointment the Giants retained an unreliable quarterback such a scared cow?
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In comment 16544634 MOOPS said:
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In comment 16544613 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 16544598 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Everybody knows this is put up or shut up year for Jones. His contract dictated that he would be here for 24.
The Pats unwillingness to trade out of 3 for Maye and our rating of the other QBs available at 6 deemed this not to be the year to draft his potential replacement. If Jones fails, we move on to plan B in 25.
Everybody with half a brain hope Jones succeeds beyond all expectations. And then there's you, who by your own admission have lost all hope.
You clowns making things up constantly doesn’t help your argument. It actually hurts it but you’re not bright enough to figure it out. Every single Giants fan on the planet HOPES Daniel Jones leads the Giants to the Super Bowl. Regardless of what accusations some of you idiots throw out there. The difference is some of us are bright enough to know that reaching back to 1984 to drum up hopes and wishes just isn’t a legitimate reason to BELIEVE that Jones is somehow going to turn into something he’s never been in his entire life. I’m not sure what’s so damn difficult to understand here. I HOPE Jones wins the Super Bowl. I BELIEVE there’s not a chance in hell of that happening and I don’t give a rats ass what happened 40 years ago
Your logic is the equivalent of dogging your wife behind her back and then saying you hope she becomes a good wife. The continued bashing of the QB of the team you say you love is a joke. Have an opinion, think he sucks, but the daily bashing here is a joke.
Nah it's more like you're dating a 2 but you tell all your buddies she's a 9, she just needs better make-up. And she has a great personality
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Schoen and Daboll--with $82M and their careers on the line--believe they can win a Super Bowl with Daniel Jones behind center and no one can claim to have a more qualified opinion on that than the two of them.
You have no idea if that's true. Just like every other GM and HC they work for owners. It's just as likely to believe that Jones has been forced on them than it is they believe they can win a Super Bowl with him.
This has become the base argument for the posters who believe in Jones. "I defer to people who are clearly smarter than me and it is stupid for anyone to question them. Questioning them is hubris!"
But when some other team signs some aged veteran to an exorbitant contract? "Hahaha, what a poorly run franchise!"
I expect these posters - because every front office and coach in the league is smarter than them - would agree that every move made by a team is a good one that should not be questioned, based only on the fact that they made that move.
The last 3 GMs made a lot of them.
Like Daniel Jones?
That's the point. The downside isn't really that bad when you consider the binary outcome of either being good enough or not. Being worse than the status quo doesn't matter all that much if neither is good enough. What does matter is at least trying to improve the situation, and that generally means addressing it in some way besides journeymen and UDFAs.
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
I wouldn't let them off the hook that easily - I think they absolutely DO believe that nonsense. They just don't realize how inane it is to have to go back 40 years to draw a (very loose) parallel.
Sadly Gettleman was correct about QB hell. He put the Giants in it and Joe Schoen regardless whether by choice or following orders has cemented them there.
The Athletic By Dan Duggan
Apr 13, 2018
“If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years,” Gettleman said of the perils of using a top pick on a quarterback. “You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call ‘quarterback hell.’ They’ve got quality defense, they’ve got a good special teams, and they’re going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they’ve got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy.”
Sadly Gettleman was correct about QB hell. He put the Giants in it and Joe Schoen regardless whether by choice or following orders has cemented them there.
The Athletic By Dan Duggan
Apr 13, 2018
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One of new Giants general manager Dave Gettleman’s goals is to avoid “quarterback hell.”
“If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years,” Gettleman said of the perils of using a top pick on a quarterback. “You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call ‘quarterback hell.’ They’ve got quality defense, they’ve got a good special teams, and they’re going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they’ve got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy.”
And this is what makes this six year period so painful. Gettleman literally lectured the fan base with his "smartest guy in the room" pedantry for a year and a half after being hired that "...you cannot reach for quarterbacks!" And then proceeded to do precisely that by falling in love and reaching for a middling talent like DJ with a top ten pick. Absolute insanity!
Sadly Gettleman was correct about QB hell. He put the Giants in it and Joe Schoen regardless whether by choice or following orders has cemented them there.
The Athletic By Dan Duggan
Apr 13, 2018
Quote:
One of new Giants general manager Dave Gettleman’s goals is to avoid “quarterback hell.”
“If you take a guy just to take a guy, especially at the quarterback position, and he fails, you set yourself back five years,” Gettleman said of the perils of using a top pick on a quarterback. “You set yourself back five years because there are teams that are in what I call ‘quarterback hell.’ They’ve got quality defense, they’ve got a good special teams, and they’re going 7-9, 8-8, 9-7. And now if there is a legitimate guy, they’ve got to trade up and give away the farm to get the guy.”
So the Giant's are likely going to be in that exact situation in April 25.
To quote Chancellor Palpatine "Ironic"
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In comment 16544598 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
I wouldn't let them off the hook that easily - I think they absolutely DO believe that nonsense. They just don't realize how inane it is to have to go back 40 years to draw a (very loose) parallel.
I mean, Y.A. Tittle didn’t really put up great numbers until year 15 when he exploded for 33 TDs. His best seasons were years 15 and 16 so there’s still a chance here if we can just show some patience
The last 3 GMs made a lot of them.
You would think Giants fans would be very familiar with this concept. Schoen was coming off his first year, with an unexpected amount of success. He simply could have fallen for the mirage.
Mara has been willing to give GMs a few swings at coach, I hope he affords Schoen another swing at QB and they keep the coach.
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Rereading some of these posts, I think you might have misunderstood my message addressed to Terps, which you felt the need to answer for him.
1. Terps had said he was a fan of Simms.
2. Simms wasn't all that in the early years.
3. Terps keeps repeating like a broken record that you should know what a QB is after a a few years and if he hasn't become THAT GUY, you simply replace him.
My point being that if Terps had his way, he wouldn't have become a fan of Simms because Simms would have been long gone.
Pretty sure Terps got it because he wouldn't touch the question with a ten foot pole. You, on the other hand, not so much.
To further clarify, I wasn't comparing the careers of Simms and Jones.
Hope that helps you out.
Peace and love bro.
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In comment 16544598 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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I get the Simms comp, but people seem to not understand or care that this isn't the '80s NFL anymore.
They willfully ignore the MASSIVE difference in the game because they are desperately trying to convince themselves however they can that there’s still hope. They don’t actually believe the nonsense they spew, but apparently they think it makes them better fans if they simply bury their heads in the sand
Hey Shock
Rereading some of these posts, I think you might have misunderstood my message addressed to Terps, which you felt the need to answer for him.
1. Terps had said he was a fan of Simms.
2. Simms wasn't all that in the early years.
3. Terps keeps repeating like a broken record that you should know what a QB is after a a few years and if he hasn't become THAT GUY, you simply replace him.
My point being that if Terps had his way, he wouldn't have become a fan of Simms because Simms would have been long gone.
Pretty sure Terps got it because he wouldn't touch the question with a ten foot pole. You, on the other hand, not so much.
To further clarify, I wasn't comparing the careers of Simms and Jones.
Hope that helps you out.
Peace and love bro.
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
I wonder what the odds are for quarterbacks who didn't win 30 games over their first 5 seasons turning out well.
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
Not the question.
Would you have gotten rid of Simms after 2 or 3 years based on his results? 6 wins, 3 wins, 5 wins. 2000 yards per year. More interceptions than TDs.
That's your mantra after all. Move on.
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Phil Simms's career path 40 years ago has nothing to do with Daniel Jones's career path now.
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
Not the question.
Would you have gotten rid of Simms after 2 or 3 years based on his results? 6 wins, 3 wins, 5 wins. 2000 yards per year. More interceptions than TDs.
That's your mantra after all. Move on.
Given that there was no free agency or salary cap at the time, and the game wasn't as dominated by passing, I probably wouldn't have gotten rid of Simms.
I answered your question. Now answer mine: what does Phil Simms have to do with Daniel Jones?
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In comment 16544971 Go Terps said:
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Phil Simms's career path 40 years ago has nothing to do with Daniel Jones's career path now.
Daniel Jones's closest current statistical peers are Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky. Both of those guys are on their fourth team... should Phil Simms's career trajectory be used to assess their chances of future success? Would you want Darnold or Trubisky as the Giants' starting QB? I'm guessing not.
Not the question.
Would you have gotten rid of Simms after 2 or 3 years based on his results? 6 wins, 3 wins, 5 wins. 2000 yards per year. More interceptions than TDs.
That's your mantra after all. Move on.
Given that there was no free agency or salary cap at the time, and the game wasn't as dominated by passing, I probably wouldn't have gotten rid of Simms.
I answered your question. Now answer mine: what does Phil Simms have to do with Daniel Jones?
I never stated or insinuated that they did.
Based on your repeated threads about turning over less than stellar QBs after a couple of years, I simply asked;
Hey Terps
How many years did it take Simms to become a good Quarterback? Six? Seven?
BTW, I'm substantially older than 45, FWIW.
Very simple question. Thanks for finally answering it.
Once again, I never mentioned Jones. Obsess much?
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
Just to be clear -- your contribution to this shitshow of a thread about Daniel Jones is an unrelated aside about Phil Simms? And that had no connection to Daniel Jones? Fabulous work.
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The point holds: Jones has stunk, currently stinks, and will likely continue to stink. Phil Simms in 1983 is irrelevant.
Once again, I never mentioned Jones. Obsess much?
Have a nice day.
This is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest. You're in a thread about DJ, engaging in a conversation with a poster who was talking about DJ, bringing up a former Giant QB who DJ often gets compared to. You weren't looking for an answer from Terps, you were looking for an "aha! Gotcha" because you didn't explicitly say Jones name.
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
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Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
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Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
I think the argument is that no quarterback as bad as he is has gotten this much opportunity as a "franchise QB".
And that might be accurate, at least in the FA/salary cap era. I can't recall a QB this poor getting a sixth season as the unquestioned starter.
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In comment 16545097 Giantsbigblue said:
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Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
This is precious. You being a devoted member of the DJFC how many posts praising Jones have you “checked”? We have an asshole on here, Jack Stroud that constantly claims Jones is an elite QB, one of the best in the NFL. He literally said with a straight face that he’s better than Joe Burrow. And he’s posted this stuff incessantly so I KNOW you’ve seen many of his posts. Have you ever “checked” him on that? Or any other post waxing poetic about Jones? So spare me your personal bias bullshit. There is playoffs bias floating around here, including from you, clown
Absolutely. Agreed 100% and I’ve said it numerous of times. He’s either a troll or the dumbest MFer on the planet
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
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In comment 16545147 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16545097 Giantsbigblue said:
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Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
This is precious. You being a devoted member of the DJFC how many posts praising Jones have you “checked”? We have an asshole on here, Jack Stroud that constantly claims Jones is an elite QB, one of the best in the NFL. He literally said with a straight face that he’s better than Joe Burrow. And he’s posted this stuff incessantly so I KNOW you’ve seen many of his posts. Have you ever “checked” him on that? Or any other post waxing poetic about Jones? So spare me your personal bias bullshit. There is playoffs bias floating around here, including from you, clown
You still hurt from Daniels being skinny sweetie?
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
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In comment 16545097 Giantsbigblue said:
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Someone called Jones the worst NFL quarterback of all time and not one of you anti Jones folk will correct that?
Well, he's not the worst NFL QB of all time. That's asinine.
These are some of the takes being thrown around here. It's hard to take this as anything but personal when the anti Jones club leaves comments like that unchecked
Just for the record, I made the claim that he is "arguably" the worst quarterback in NFL history who has at least 50 starts. And I stand by it.
He is currently the worst active quarterback in the NFL in terms of winning percentage (.375). And that includes his three closest comps, Darnold (.433), Mariota (.467) and Trubisky (.535).
Only 7 quarterbacks in the Super Bowl Era have a lower winning percentage than DJ. Of these, Archie Manning, Norm Snead, Jeff Blake, Jeff George, Chris Miller and Josh McCown either had multiple years that were better than anything DJ has ever done and/or accumulated nearly double the number of TDs and passing yards that DJ has thus far compiled.
So that leaves DJ v Mike Pagel as the two worst quarterbacks in NFL history with more than 50 starts. You want to argue DJ is better than Mike Pagel? Fine. But keep this in mind. Mike Pagel was only a starter for two years. He was a career backup who simply started and played in a lot of games during his spectacularly atrocious career. And I can assure you that there is not a single person in the entire spectrum of fandom that would ever claim that Mike Pagel was anything but a spectacularly atrocious quarterback.
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Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
I love that you used the word "if" twice.
There's Hope for you yet, my brother.
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In comment 16545182 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
I love that you used the word "if" twice.
There's Hope for you yet, my brother.
How many times do I have to be right on this guy to be right? He's been shit for five years and we're still playing the "let it play out" game.
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Once again, I never mentioned Jones. Obsess much?
Have a nice day.
Just to be clear -- your contribution to this shitshow of a thread about Daniel Jones is an unrelated aside about Phil Simms? And that had no connection to Daniel Jones? Fabulous work.
"Whoa. Tough crowd. Tough crowd."
The name calling, the baseless allegations, I'm shocked.
All this over one little innocuous question questions where a simple yes or no would have sufficed. This could take weeks, months to get over.
Nah, I'm good.
Peace and love brothers.
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In comment 16545201 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16545182 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Well, I don't dispute that. I think the rope Jones has gotten is fucking insane. & I will never understand Mara' love for the kid, but @ this point...it is what it is.
Gun to head...I think he plays poorly this fall & is benched for Lock or DeVito. Or he gets injured. Those are probably the most two likely scenarios.
If it goes bad with Jones in 2024 I hope the boos and criticism aren't directed at him. If Jones sucks again I hope Mara, Schoen, and Daboll get absolutely destroyed.
I love that you used the word "if" twice.
There's Hope for you yet, my brother.
How many times do I have to be right on this guy to be right? He's been shit for five years and we're still playing the "let it play out" game.
You wanted to draft him and left the site when they made the playoffs. You have zero credibility despite what your small fan club wants to believe.
The name calling, the baseless allegations, I'm shocked.
All this over one little innocuous question questions where a simple yes or no would have sufficed.
You made the implication of a silly comparison, and you got your balls busted. This is the way.
2. How long did it take Simms and Manning to be successful?
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
2. How long did it take Simms and Manning to be successful?
Exactly right. And please add "I trust Gettleman/Schoen and Judge/Daboll a lot more than the opinions of anybody on BBI."
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1. Let it play out.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
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1. Let it play out.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Bump it up to a case of Keystone Ice and we can have it.
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In comment 16545448 Sean said:
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1. Let it play out.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
So no opinions in advance then. Basically, a site where we observe and make descriptive comments only until something happens. Rear view window opinions only so everyone will simultaneously always be right and always in agreement. That sounds like kumbaya on a scale even bigger than DJ's offseason activities!
Eric will probably need to change the name of the site though. Maybe something like Big Blue Indifference? Maybe we can add a special section with poster contributions to spice things up a bit when things are slow. Stuff like the home movies of George Costanza's boyhood trip to Michigan would be perfect for this!
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
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I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
I'm fine with the topic. It just seems like it's not a conversation anymore but people talking at and putting each other down. There are some reasonable people on both sides but then there are others that have the heels dug in and don't give a shit what anyone says.
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I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
The last part of your post is exactly what I am talking about. Have you not witnessed posters on this site make statements that are formatted as a conclusion? Perhaps you don't think that people make conclusions when there is not a conclusion yet? I think people do this often. They are certain their outcome will be the conclusion. This happens for both posters with a positive point of view on Jones and the ones with a negative point of view (not all of them).
For example: A poster I conversed with a while back has already came to the conclusion that Bryce Young will not be a good quarterback based on two preseason drives. To me that is coming to a conclusion before there is a conclusion. I think this type of thing happens quite often.
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In comment 16545482 christian said:
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In comment 16545448 Sean said:
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1. Let it play out.
I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
So no opinions in advance then. Basically, a site where we observe and make descriptive comments only until something happens. Rear view window opinions only so everyone will simultaneously always be right and always in agreement. That sounds like kumbaya on a scale even bigger than DJ's offseason activities!
Eric will probably need to change the name of the site though. Maybe something like Big Blue Indifference? Maybe we can add a special section with poster contributions to spice things up a bit when things are slow. Stuff like the home movies of George Costanza's boyhood trip to Michigan would be perfect for this!
You are not reading well.
I think lots of people on this site use bad evidence to form their opinions, whether that be of the incomplete, untrue, or non-applicable variety.
At the risk of being more semantically obnoxious than normal, my objection is the notion fans "let it play out."
Fans can't let it play out, because fans aren't actually involved.
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For example: A poster I conversed with a while back has already came to the conclusion that Bryce Young will not be a good quarterback based on two preseason drives. To me that is coming to a conclusion before there is a conclusion. I think this type of thing happens quite often.
I think lots of people on this site use bad evidence to form their opinions, whether that be of the incomplete, untrue, or non-applicable variety.
At the risk of being more semantically obnoxious than normal, my objection is the notion fans "let it play out."
Fans can't let it play out, because fans aren't actually involved.
So I didn’t win the case of natty ice?
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I have a standing offer of a 12 pack of Natural Light Ice for anyone who can give me an example of what not letting it play out looks like.
Coming to a conclusion before something has concluded.
This does not mean that discussions should not take place.
But there is no conclusion. We're just fans exchanging opinions on how we think things will go or why they've gone a certain way.
We don't have to let it play out, because we're not a part of it.
The only thing I can think of a fan can do to not let it play out, is to physically interfere with a player or coach. Short of that, letting it play out is a given.
I think maybe what people mean when they say that is something more like I don't think you can make that determination conclusively today, so therefore I'm not interested in debating this topic any longer.
While I respect the opinions of the peanut gallery, (I am part of it) I look forward to seeing how the next version of the team will look every season.
Several in our little group of overly confident nuts have made statements of fact. Statements based on what they think that they know...which in my experience is more emotion than real knowledge.
IMO, if they want to be taken seriously, they have to allow for opinions that differ from their own. Which means, stating their opinions as just that, rather than as fact.
Excuses to one are simply legitimate reasons to others.
Im on the fence with Jones simply because those with the most expertise decided that replacing him with Nix, McCarthy or Penix was less valuable than adding Nabers.
It suggests that Nabers was viewed as a better way to improve the team. Which also suggests that they don't view Jones as the liability that some here believe him to be.
Im not sold on Jones, but Im looking forward to seeing it play out.
There is no reason to assume these guys know what they're doing, or to give them the benefit of the doubt.
There is no reason to assume these guys know what they're doing, or to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Not necessarily. The college scouts wouldn’t be involved with the re-signing of Jones so if they gave reports highly critical of any or all of those 3 QB’s we do not know. I can fully admit Jones’s limitations while simultaneously hoping that the remote possibility of him leading us to the Super Bowl takes place. I have been critical of those who might also agree that we need to move on from Jones, but also want to see us fail so they can say they were right.
They both have exhibited some warnings signs as well. The batting average on player acquisitions hasn't been impressive. And the coaching staff hires have been pretty poor.
I apologize for my lack of clarity with my thoughts.
I apologize for my lack of clarity with my thoughts.
Excellent point. We all need to remember it.
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Those with the expertise saw fit to pay Jones up to $160M.
There is no reason to assume these guys know what they're doing, or to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Not necessarily. The college scouts wouldn’t be involved with the re-signing of Jones so if they gave reports highly critical of any or all of those 3 QB’s we do not know. I can fully admit Jones’s limitations while simultaneously hoping that the remote possibility of him leading us to the Super Bowl takes place. I have been critical of those who might also agree that we need to move on from Jones, but also want to see us fail so they can say they were right.
It's not about being right. It's about wanting the Giants to be a competitive team again.
He has a very similar career to Mitch Trubisky. The only difference is the playoff win. Good for Jones, he played very well in that playoff win and he earned it. However, Blake Bortles and Case Keenum have playoff wins too. Among others who NYG fans wouldn't consider "franchise QBs". We've got Giant fans critical of Lamar Jackson. It's absurd.
And regarding Trubisky, he was drafted in 2017, only 2 years before Jones. The Bears have already moved on twice at QB since then (Trubisky & Fields).
But, let's still bring up Simms.
He has a very similar career to Mitch Trubisky. The only difference is the playoff win. Good for Jones, he played very well in that playoff win and he earned it. However, Blake Bortles and Case Keenum have playoff wins too. Among others who NYG fans wouldn't consider "franchise QBs". We've got Giant fans critical of Lamar Jackson. It's absurd.
And regarding Trubisky, he was drafted in 2017, only 2 years before Jones. The Bears have already moved on twice at QB since then (Trubisky & Fields).
But, let's still bring up Simms.
People who bring up Simms in an effort to prop up Jones aren't serious people. This is 2024, not 1984.
1) Put aside the economic considerations, do you believe the Phil Simms scenario has a high, medium, low, of incredibly low chance or happening again?
2) What do you think is higher odds -- a younger and/or more durable quarterback acquired in the draft or by other means wins a championship or Daniel Jones does?
3) What do you think is more likely, Daniel Jones leaves and enjoys great success at Giants' embarrassment or Daniel Jones stays and plays poorly at the Giants' embarrassment?
1) Put aside the economic considerations, do you believe the Phil Simms scenario has a high, medium, low, of incredibly low chance or happening again?
2) What do you think is higher odds -- a younger and/or more durable quarterback acquired in the draft or by other means wins a championship or Daniel Jones does?
3) What do you think is more likely, Daniel Jones leaves and enjoys great success at Giants' embarrassment or Daniel Jones stays and plays poorly at the Giants' embarrassment?
With all due respect, #1 and #3 are not valuable to consider. But somehow I think you knew that when you wrote it for the pondering fans above.
#2 could be valuable to consider but, in practice, seems to be a waste of time. Largely because the Giants can't bring themselves to acquire a QB in the draft. Somehow this position on the roster has become either lesser in importance or permanently filled. Maybe both.
Re-arranging my sock drawer would be more valuable.