Best Giants Preview, imo and I highly, respect Greg Cosell

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I appreciate it!

I booted it the first time as well. :)

Cosell has some interesting comments.
Likes Ezeudo at LG and Eleumenor at RT.
Not high on JMS at C or Neal at RT.
Thinks Jones can be a decent middle-of-the road starter.
Likes the front 7 on D. 2nd CB is still an unanswered ?

I'll listen later. My first thought is I agree regarding all the doom & gloom for this season. I think it's gone too far. This feels closer to an 8/9 win team for me than it does a 4 win team.

It all begins and ends with the offensive line. And then Daniel Jones. If both play well, I believe the Giants can win 12 games. BUT, given the uncertainty around both, color me skeptical.

the other 31 teams have issues too. Oh well, maybe not the eagles.

on the is very reasonable and worth the time to listen to. Thanks for posting it.

That's pretty much how I feel.

Middle of the road isn't good enough. I like Cosell but someone should ask him if Jones is a likely championship quarterback. Might get a different answer.

In comment 16548575 Husserlian said:

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Middle of the road isn't good enough. I like Cosell but someone should ask him if Jones is a likely championship quarterback. Might get a different answer.

I don't think Cosell would dispute that. But this was a preview for the upcoming season. Nobody should be talking about superbowls in that context.

I've always liked Cosell's input. This is a good listen.

He loves Malik Nabers. If MHJ was a 10 -- Nabers was a 9.98

agree with all the plaudits for cosell.

but having issues at C & RT would mean some big misses in recent drafts. I still have hope JMS & EN with better coaching work out to be at least solid. I also think DJ's ceiling is middle of the pack at QB, if his wheels are OK, but I don't see him lasting as a starter due to the neck injury history. If his wheels aren't good, I don't think he has the skillset to make it as a pure pocket passer.

It literally has a section that says "URL of Link" in each post on the bottom, lol.

A couple of interesting points he made

- he said it's going to be interesting to see how the change of defensive philosophy and coaching effects the CB room. Cosell liked Darnay Holmes and wonders if the change in coaching scheme will bring out his talent. This goes for the rest of the CB room. Wink's Defense put a lot of pressure on the Cbs one on one matchups -- now it will be more of a zone system. Have to see how it goes to properly evaluate the CBs -- there is talent there.

- Thinks Burns is a "Big Time" player and will change the calculus of the front D Line. Doesn't think KT has shown elite talent - but thinks he's competent (we are also going into year three and a different system and coaching - so we have to see how that impacts the way these guys function). Used a Gettelman line -- but he said don't go to sleep on Jordan Phillips -- thinks Phillips is a very good player that could impact the front four. High on Okereke. Really likes McFadden. Enough talent on Defense to be a pretty good group. Spoke very highly of the Tyler Nubin and how he exhibited rare traits in College, that generally don't show up in college safeties.

- not high on our Center -- and not high on Evans who he rated highly in College coming out -- but thinks that the two guards we signed are "solid" additions.

- thinks the Giants Offense wants to be in 11 personnel based on the WR group. Really liked Nabors a lot -- true number 1, but that the two "Y" TE's they signed suggest otherwise -- be interesting to see how Dabs uses the TE group. Really likes the TE we drafted, and is "intrigued" with RB Tracey. Doesn't think Singletary is a bell cow but thinks he's solid.

- the question is - if the O line can keep the pocket cleaner, can Jones be a pocket passer. Showed a lot of accuracy passing in the Minnesota playoff game, and thinks that is something to watch. Doesn't think Jones is more than a mid level QB - but if you protect him and give him skill players - maybe that's a recipe that can make work. But the ifs are at RT and C. He likes Ezudu and thinks he can be a player -- but he thinks he's a guard.

- interested to see how Lock responds to Dabol - thinks he has mechanical issues with his feet -- but he has a very strong arm.

- it's a lot better roster than what they had in 2022

Cossell made a great point….the secondary will be exposed in a new philosophical environment that may make the secondary, in particular CBs, much better, especially if this new philosophy suits their skills much better than Wink’s philosophy. I hope it does.

I feel as they do- NEAL IS A BUST, especially as a tackle- and we have to not consider him as the starter. And playing Ezeudu as a tackle is asinine because he should plat LG with Eluemunor playing RT. I can’t believe our new smart coaches don’t see this. I suppose there is pressure to force Neal to succeed because if he is a bust, this looks bad, but hey, no one is pref e so move on from your mistakes and press forward.

I think this was a very balanced evaluation that left it open for time and more data before you can draw conclusions.

In comment 16548603 5BowlsSoon said:

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Cossell made a great point….the secondary will be exposed in a new philosophical environment that may make the secondary, in particular CBs, much better, especially if this new philosophy suits their skills much better than Wink’s philosophy. I hope it does. I feel as they do- NEAL IS A BUST, especially as a tackle- and we have to not consider him as the starter. And playing Ezeudu as a tackle is asinine because he should plat LG with Eluemunor playing RT. I can’t believe our new smart coaches don’t see this. I suppose there is pressure to force Neal to succeed because if he is a bust, this looks bad, but hey, no one is pref e so move on from your mistakes and press forward. I think this was a very balanced evaluation that left it open for time and more data before you can draw conclusions.

Where does he suggest paying Ezeudu at tackle...he saays Left Guard.

Because if he is a bust and a cut...you take depth away to fill the spot.

If he transforms into what we thought he was, it makes us so much stronger and keeps the OL group strong as a whole.

Right tackle doesn't need to be a HOF position....just do your job and do it well.

Cosell really likes Nubin and thinks he and Philips will be starters (I think he says opening day)

Not happy to hear Cosell

-only thinks of KT as confident and says only one or two of his sacks were not “ancillary”. He explains that I don’t only one or two occasions he beat his man and got the Sack as opposed to just getting a sack on an extended play.

- they all seem to agree that Neil is already a bust and that Jermaine E will be the starting right tackle

Competent not confident

Nice summary by gidiefor. I agree with him about JMS.

The offensive formation discussing was interesting. Pointed out how they will most likely be heavy 11 personnel. I see four WR's as well.

If they can't have significant success in the pass game they question whether the Giants will have the running game to compensate. I really agree with this and think it will be a big issue this season especially against the better D's.

In comment 16548533 PEEJ said:

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Likes Ezeudo at LG and Eleumenor at RT.

This is what I've been saying has been the plan since they signed Runyan and Eluemunor. Eluemunor is here (IMO) as insurance against Ezeudu and Neal failing to live up to expectations, not as their projected replacement. Don't be fooled by their usage during OTA's. At least that's how I see it until it's proved otherwise during training camp.

Hard to argue with anything in there. The performance of the Oline will be the biggest determinant of how many games this team can win. If they can take a step forward in pass pro, this team can have a functional offense. I think the goal will be to be more vertical in the passing game. I just don't know that Daniel Jones will ever be able to execute that consistently.

I think the defense is absolutely going in the right direction and curious to see what sort of impact the change in scheme can have.

This teams is a functional Oline and a QB away from being respectable.

I try to follow direction.... can't copy threads in yellow....to reply either.

I am an old dog......

Jones simply doesn’t have it. Period. Does that make them choosing a QB at #6 they didn’t have rated highly, or, over trading assets to get Maye the right move, no. Jones can be serviceable and shows flashes but , not enough to challenge in own division.

Because:

-- We have an elite LT.

-- We an excellent mix of receiving talent.

-- On paper, we have upgraded the OL.

-- We have two talented Edge defenders.

-- We have an elite DT.

-- We have an upper-level Mike.

-- We have what could be an elite corner.

-- And we have a QB entering that critical 6th year.

In comment 16548693 bw in dc said:

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Because: -- We have an elite LT. -- We an excellent mix of receiving talent. -- On paper, we have upgraded the OL. -- We have two talented Edge defenders. -- We have an elite DT. -- We have an upper-level Mike. -- We have what could be an elite corner. -- And we have a QB entering that critical 6th year.

Not sure what you’re smoking , but it must be strong.

In comment 16548698 gersh said:

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Not sure what you’re smoking , but it must be strong.

So, we shouldn't expect ten wins?

The OL development is a must.

And "IF" (a big 12 years and counting IF) the OL can play decently...

Jones must stay healthy and perform at higher levels that many hear doubt is possible.

He had a good year and he was throwing to David Sills, Tanner Hudson. To think that the roster hasn't improved is silly. The 2022 line was still bad. 2023 was worse. If it's improved in 2024, Jones will be the updated Phil Simms. And Phil Simms was middle of the pack, too. But certainly good enough.

this roster is better than that one because they have had 2 more offseasons to add players they want, so of course they can win more games than that.

last years roster was better than that one too and they lost more games than that, which is always also a possibility.

the expectation should obviously be the former not the latter but to steal from cossell it is july so presently there is a lot that's unknown.

... I expect them to win the next game.

if you take out the philly game. could have sworn that was a bigger blowout.

In comment 16548693 bw in dc said:

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Because: -- We have an elite LT. -- We an excellent mix of receiving talent. -- On paper, we have upgraded the OL. -- We have two talented Edge defenders. -- We have an elite DT. -- We have an upper-level Mike. -- We have what could be an elite corner. -- And we have a QB entering that critical 6th year.

We upgrade the ol on paper every year, on the field not so much.

signing the 2 guards will help this year, but I think our o-line is still a weakness. I was very concerned about what Cosell had to say about Neal and JMS.

In comment 16548735 Ron Johnson said:

Quote:

In comment 16548693 bw in dc said: Quote: Because: -- We have an elite LT. -- We an excellent mix of receiving talent. -- On paper, we have upgraded the OL. -- We have two talented Edge defenders. -- We have an elite DT. -- We have an upper-level Mike. -- We have what could be an elite corner. -- And we have a QB entering that critical 6th year. We upgrade the ol on paper every year, on the field not so much.

I cede the point.

But let's assume Schoen got that part right. Should winning at least 10 games be the expectation?

but if they don't we can all second guess the choices they've made in the past two years regarding the OL.

They made a terrible choices last year. The worst one was when they decided to move Ezeudu to LT without ever having him practicing there and their 40M QB paid the price.

It seems like very few people, both media and fans who closely follow the Giants, think their 2024 plan to "fix" the OL is positioning their players correctly.

I'm not saying that anyone in the media or any fans are more qualified to position the Giants OL. I am saying they are not planning to use what seems like the most logical and efficient plan based on the players sample sizes.

It sounds like the 2024 plan is to double down on the choice of Ezeudu at swing tackle, play their best RT at LG, play the other free agent G they signed at RG even though he's said he's fine at RG but if given the choice he prefers LG and the big hill that their jobs with the Giants will probably live or die on, their two high OL draft picks who have not played well so at C and RT with limited depth behind them.

If the 2024 plan doesn't work they both might be looking for new jobs.

I know what bw in dc is doing, Haha. And listen...I don't disagree with what he's doing.

Runyon is the Giants best Guard.....giving Neal the best support possible to succeed at RT.....which is Plan A.


I assume Plan B will have Jermaine Eluemunor play RT.....and the Giants have more backup players that can play LG

In comment 16548575 Husserlian said:

Quote:

Middle of the road isn't good enough. I like Cosell but someone should ask him if Jones is a likely championship quarterback. Might get a different answer.

You may have missed it but Cosell said Jones is a middle of the pack quarterback.

In comment 16548761 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16548735 Ron Johnson said: Quote: In comment 16548693 bw in dc said: Quote: Because: -- We have an elite LT. -- We an excellent mix of receiving talent. -- On paper, we have upgraded the OL. -- We have two talented Edge defenders. -- We have an elite DT. -- We have an upper-level Mike. -- We have what could be an elite corner. -- And we have a QB entering that critical 6th year. We upgrade the ol on paper every year, on the field not so much. I cede the point. But let's assume Schoen got that part right. Should winning at least 10 games be the expectation?

If the QB and OT play do not improve, 10 wins is never going to happen.

Expect that.

In comment 16548887 Brick72 said:

Quote:

In comment 16548575 Husserlian said: Quote: Middle of the road isn't good enough. I like Cosell but someone should ask him if Jones is a likely championship quarterback. Might get a different answer. You may have missed it but Cosell said Jones is a middle of the pack quarterback.

I agree.

And so? There are only 3-4 elite NFL QBs.

Everyone else builds a strong roster with a fair share of difference makers and relies on good coaching, health, good fortune and the right timing to outweigh that advantage.

In comment 16548902 HBart said:

Quote:

In comment 16548887 Brick72 said: Quote: In comment 16548575 Husserlian said: Quote: Middle of the road isn't good enough. I like Cosell but someone should ask him if Jones is a likely championship quarterback. Might get a different answer. You may have missed it but Cosell said Jones is a middle of the pack quarterback. I agree. And so? There are only 3-4 elite NFL QBs. Everyone else builds a strong roster with a fair share of difference makers and relies on good coaching, health, good fortune and the right timing to outweigh that advantage.

Also, elite QB doesn’t always win.
Simms beat Montana enroute to Elway’s Broncos in SB.
Hostetler beat Montana before beating Jim Kelly.
Eli beat Brett Favre before taking down Brady in 07 season. In 11, it was Aaron Rogers (plus two former #1 overall draft picks in Matt Ryan and Alex Smith) and then Brady again.

That's exactly right. Eli is elite because he raised his game to be elite in a number of games when it mattered most. He outplayed better quarterbacks, largely because a ferocious Giants pass rush beat the snot out of them. It's a team sport.

That script works, and is somewhat self-fulfilling. Eli and the Giants were 12 point dogs the first time, and most thought Eli didn't even belong on the same field as Brady.

Next time the Giants were -2.5. Not a soul on earth would rank Eli a better QB, or even in the same tier -- but there was no doubt the Giants could win.

In comment 16548716 Coopcomic said:

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He had a good year and he was throwing to David Sills, Tanner Hudson. To think that the roster hasn't improved is silly. The 2022 line was still bad. 2023 was worse. If it's improved in 2024, Jones will be the updated Phil Simms. And Phil Simms was middle of the pack, too. But certainly good enough.

Jones had a decent year because he ran for 700 yards. His passing stats were more or less what they have been every other year. He is what he is: "middle of the road starter" as a ceiling is not exactly high praise.

GTFO

In comment 16548985 terptacular said:

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GTFO

Sure he was. For one, like Jones - most fans wanted him gone after a few so-so seasons and one missed completely.

He broke out in year 6 - had a few terriffic seasons, and then a long stretch of ho-hum before going out with a bang.

We love him because he part of a legendary SB winning team, with some individual legendary moments and accomplishments. Also likable and tough as nails. But 2/3s of his career was middling.

In comment 16548693 bw in dc said:

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Because: -- We have an elite LT. -- We an excellent mix of receiving talent. -- On paper, we have upgraded the OL. -- We have two talented Edge defenders. -- We have an elite DT. -- We have an upper-level Mike. -- We have what could be an elite corner. -- And we have a QB entering that critical 6th year.

+1

Giants should be good this year. If they aren't it's a bad sign for this regime. This is the team they were brought here to build. Expectations should be high.

How old were you in 1979?

Those teams won because of defense.

Now, he played his best game in the Super Bowl.

In comment 16549097 arniefez said:

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How old were you in 1979?

16. I went to my first Giants game at Shea.

I was young but I recall thinking that Scott Brunner should start over Simms at one point.

receivers. I'm not pushing for him to get in the Hall of Fame, but he was a good qb - strong arm, smart and accurate.

In comment 16549189 Ira said:

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receivers. I'm not pushing for him to get in the Hall of Fame, but he was a good qb - strong arm, smart and accurate.

No doubt. I love the guy. And it was a different time - but his career completion % was 55.4 and TDs to INTs were 199 to 157

10 wins is plausible.
There are a bunch of unknowns connected with all the young talent.
If they develop, this team can become competitive in a hurry.

The issue I have with Cosell’s assessment is when he talks about Neal.
He doves deep j to other players, situations and schemes, but he takes Neal at face value. Never mentions he’s “only” played 20 games in 2 years, and was playing significantly hurt in half of those. And has already had 3 OL coaches ( Bricillo makes 4). Not exactly conducive to developing.
JMS on the other hand, I never liked the pick ESPECIALLY in the second rd. I agree completely with his take on this guy. Hopefully, with more stability next to him, he becomes adequate.

In comment 16548761 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16548735 Ron Johnson said: Quote: In comment 16548693 bw in dc said: Quote: Because: -- We have an elite LT. -- We an excellent mix of receiving talent. -- On paper, we have upgraded the OL. -- We have two talented Edge defenders. -- We have an elite DT. -- We have an upper-level Mike. -- We have what could be an elite corner. -- And we have a QB entering that critical 6th year. We upgrade the ol on paper every year, on the field not so much. I cede the point. But let's assume Schoen got that part right. Should winning at least 10 games be the expectation?

Also assuming a bit of luck with injuries, 9 or 10, yes I think so.

In comment 16548976 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

In comment 16548716 Coopcomic said: Quote: He had a good year and he was throwing to David Sills, Tanner Hudson. To think that the roster hasn't improved is silly. The 2022 line was still bad. 2023 was worse. If it's improved in 2024, Jones will be the updated Phil Simms. And Phil Simms was middle of the pack, too. But certainly good enough. Jones had a decent year because he ran for 700 yards. His passing stats were more or less what they have been every other year. He is what he is: "middle of the road starter" as a ceiling is not exactly high praise.

It isn't high praise, but middle of the road is a premature judgment. Give him a line and weapons, and see what happens. I am very optimistic that the haters are going to have to eat up.

In comment 16548994 HBart said:

Quote:

In comment 16548985 terptacular said: Quote: GTFO Sure he was. For one, like Jones - most fans wanted him gone after a few so-so seasons and one missed completely. He broke out in year 6 - had a few terriffic seasons, and then a long stretch of ho-hum before going out with a bang. We love him because he part of a legendary SB winning team, with some individual legendary moments and accomplishments. Also likable and tough as nails. But 2/3s of his career was middling.

Don't agree. Context means a lot. Two years he played a total of two games. SO in total he played 37 games before he broke out he threw for over 4,000 yards. The important point was that he was the #1 Offensive Player for his team his breakout year. He was 3rd in total passing throughout the NFL. The teams number 1 option.

Jones year he supposedly broke out after similar 37 games he was not #1. Its doubtful he will ever have the capability of leading his team unless he has a star player to lean on.Otherwise the team will probbaly suck.

If healthy though - he can win if everything is very strong around him.

Phil Simms to this football team. But there was at least a stretch of games the playoff season where he was arguably the best player on offense. (Or maybe second best). His rushing and passing did lead the team to victory.

And Simms definitely had a better OL in his best years
Again, not saying DJ is Phil

In comment 16549279 gersh said:

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Phil Simms to this football team. But there was at least a stretch of games the playoff season where he was arguably the best player on offense. (Or maybe second best). His rushing and passing did lead the team to victory.

SO what? A few games Lawrence Taylor might have sucked during his career. A few games Joe Montana mightg have sucked. A sfew games the Giants 1970's of the 70's might have played better than The Cowbos QB Roger Staubach etc.

The point was talking about leaiding a team through a season. Not to just just highlight a few games duing the seaosn. That's the point of bringing up 4.000 passing yards being 3rd best during that year which Simmms had done instead fo cherry-picking games for Jones.

In comment 16549280 gersh said:

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And Simms definitely had a better OL in his best years Again, not saying DJ is Phil

And yet the OL was able to do pretty well for Barkley while also doing well enouhg running for Jones as well. And the point you made about "stretch of games" - I guess we can add praise to the Giants OL that seaosn too seeing how you are praising Jones?

The Giants pass OL was historically bad this past season and very bad the season before.

Some stats
the Giants' 2023 line ranked as PFF's dead-last, No. 32 pass-blocking unit (43.4) and the NFL's No. 30 run-blocking group (41.1). They allowed 85 sacks, the second most all-time by any team.

In comment 16549390 giantstock said:

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In comment 16549280 gersh said: Quote: And Simms definitely had a better OL in his best years Again, not saying DJ is Phil And yet the OL was able to do pretty well for Barkley while also doing well enouhg running for Jones as well. And the point you made about "stretch of games" - I guess we can add praise to the Giants OL that seaosn too seeing how you are praising Jones?

What are you trying to say? The Giants OL was good?

In comment 16549185 gersh said:

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I was young but I recall thinking that Scott Brunner should start over Simms at one point.

So did Bill Parcells.

In comment 16549185 gersh said:

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I was young but I recall thinking that Scott Brunner should start over Simms at one point.

What can ya say? Older fans “romanticize” about QBs that have won Super Bowls and were the QB for some of the best teams in franchise history. Younger fans “romanticize” about QBs that won Wild Card games and were the QB for some of the worst teams in franchise history. To each their own I suppose