Chris Simms: Gap between Jones and Hurts is not significant

It's a stand up thing to do to post something that goes against what you may believe!

I tend to agree with what Simms is saying but I usually don't so I may have to reevaluate my own opinions now.

Bunch of 1 yard TDs inflate his stats. He can run, but Isn’t fast or explosive. Has below average arm talent. Has benefited greatly from an amazing Oline and weapons (who never seemed to get injured).

I'm on the fence with Hurts. There are genuinely times where he looks like an MVP candidate. He played very well in the Super Bowl. But I do think Philly got caught in the race to the top with that contract.

...or ANY other NFL team, I'd hope and pray the Giants keep Jones around for 20 years.

In comment 16553853 BMCBikes said:

Quote:

...or ANY other NFL team, I'd hope and pray the Giants keep Jones around for 20 years.

That's not what he said. Simms ranked him 23rd. Not exactly a some huge endorsement. He's basically saying Hurts is over rated. Which obviously is too much for you to comprehend. The amount of DJDS posters on BBI higher than the national debt.

For contract Jones has to climb into the top 15. I would be surprised if that happened but I also will be surprised if he is not closer to 15 then 23 next year.

than Jones will ever have. He's actually more of afootball player than QB, IMV. And he has the winning chromosome.

I think Hurts is an average thrower at best. Same with Jones. So, I actually that similarity between the two.

But ask yourself this question. If you need to win a game, who are you talking?

Good luck making a case for Jones...

Talks up Jones he's only ranked him higher than 21st once (11th going into 2023)

In comment 16553849 christian said:

Quote:

I'm on the fence with Hurts. There are genuinely times where he looks like an MVP candidate. He played very well in the Super Bowl. But I do think Philly got caught in the race to the top with that contract.

"He played very well in the Super Bowl" is so much more than we can reasonably ever expect from Daniel Jones. (Usual caveat that I hope I'm wrong.)

And how it “needs” to be factored with his passing TDs

Hurts has 47 rush TDs and Jones has 13 rush TDs

Hurts has outrushed Jones 2500 yds to 1900 yds

And it’ll bury Philly. Fuck Philly.

Clown coach, boat anchor for a QB.

to pay real stars. Jones is playing like a back up so his pay should be much lower

In comment 16553866 bw in dc said:

Quote:

than Jones will ever have. He's actually more of afootball player than QB, IMV. And he has the winning chromosome. I think Hurts is an average thrower at best. Same with Jones. So, I actually that similarity between the two. But ask yourself this question. If you need to win a game, who are you talking? Good luck making a case for Jones...

Both players on teams with equivalent talent? In other words Jones is not on this Giants team and Hurts is not on this Eagles team? Teams with equal talent...Remember Hurts is on one of the best teams in football while Jones is on one of the worst.

Or, let's switch teams = put Hurts on the Giants and Jones on the Eagles....now let's talk.

And remember I am not a Jones fan.

In comment 16553888 xman said:

Quote:

to pay real stars. Jones is playing like a back up so his pay should be much lower

Being that Lawrence, Thomas, Okereke, and Burns all got paid. We have also signed other high price FA that didn’t work out.

So this post makes absolutely no sense.

With a quality offense he can be successful. Sims has him rated 23rd? If that accurate we should be looking to upgrade.

But its so hard to compare him and Jones for the obvious reasons.

Hurts has the single best supporting cast for any QB in the NFL (OL + Skill) for his career.

Jones arguably had the worst supporting cast for any QB in the NFL for his career.

Not a fan of Hurts, but the biggest difference between the two is the neck injuries. Regardless of where you rank DJ versus other QBs, the history of serious, potentially career ending neck injuries is a ticking timebomb that needs a Plan B ASAP (and I don't mean Lock or Cutlets).

Anyone want to give odds on DJ lasting as a starting QB another 10 years?

In comment 16553866 bw in dc said:

Quote:

than Jones will ever have. He's actually more of afootball player than QB, IMV. And he has the winning chromosome. I think Hurts is an average thrower at best. Same with Jones. So, I actually that similarity between the two. But ask yourself this question. If you need to win a game, who are you talking? Good luck making a case for Jones...

Again. It what he said. Said the gap isn't as great as many think. I do t want Hurts at the at price either. Anyone who thinks Jones is a better football player is nuts at this point. But Roseman who gets a ton of praise and daily ball gargling here doesn't feel Hurts is a top tier QB either if he's going to go out and sign Barkley for 12 million a year.

Daniel Jones is the QB this year most likely. Until he gets hurt again which can seems really possible. Next year I want him gone just so the DJDS crew can then focus on Neal or the next poor bastard who lives in all your guys head.

In comment 16553849 christian said:

Quote:

I'm on the fence with Hurts. There are genuinely times where he looks like an MVP candidate. He played very well in the Super Bowl. But I do think Philly got caught in the race to the top with that contract.

My point of view exactly.

But it is possible that DJ is just the white Jalen Hurts, which is what my middle son always says. End of 2022 I would have said Hurts is a top 5 QB (and DJ top 10-15). In 2023 Hurts looked like 10-15 at best, and DJ's limited time would firmly place him as a backup.

This highlights to me the positives of DJ's contract. We may have given him more than he was worth (certainly last year) but hard to see how we would be in a better place next year if we did not give it to him. That is, who did we bring in for 2023 or 2024 who would be a big improvement? The remaining cap hit for DJ in 2025 after cut is real but not huge. Go take a look at Hurts' contract. If he is not Mahomes like, it is awful. I think Howie is fired in the next two to three years if they don't win the SB this year.

but you cannot compare his running ability to Jones. Hurts is a much better runner, able to run through contact and get tough yards. Jones is probably faster, but he runs upright, leaving himself open to hits. Plus, after the myriad of injuries, I really don’t expect to see him running a lot this year.

As far as passing, neither is very good. Hurts has the better arm, Jones is more accurate. Hurts is more willing to go downfield.

In comment 16553893 section125 said:

Quote:

Both players on teams with equivalent talent? In other words Jones is not on this Giants team and Hurts is not on this Eagles team? Teams with equal talent...Remember Hurts is on one of the best teams in football while Jones is on one of the worst. Or, let's switch teams = put Hurts on the Giants and Jones on the Eagles....now let's talk. And remember I am not a Jones fan.

All we know for a fact is Hurts has performed at a high level. Yes, it was with a talented team, but he had to deliver the ball and make plays with his legs.

It's all speculation whether Jones do the same under the same circumstances.

While I don't like Hurts as a thrower, he's infinitely better than Jones at making off-platform plays. I don't think it's particularly close. And that goes back to my earlier point that Hurts is just a football player and know how to win. He's won everywhere in his football life.

than vice versa. hurts is a good runner but not a great thrower. if his running leads to injuries, as it has with almost every running QB except josh allen, then what is he?

id personally take dak over hurts. i think getting barkley was a savvy move for philly because i think it will likely take some amount of punishment off hurts.

Hurts rolls to his right sets his feet to launch the Hail Mary.

It comes up 20 yards short.

The Eagles lose and Hurts punctuates the loss by revealing a stunning lack of arm talent.

In comment 16553923 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16553893 section125 said: Quote: Both players on teams with equivalent talent? In other words Jones is not on this Giants team and Hurts is not on this Eagles team? Teams with equal talent...Remember Hurts is on one of the best teams in football while Jones is on one of the worst. Or, let's switch teams = put Hurts on the Giants and Jones on the Eagles....now let's talk. And remember I am not a Jones fan. All we know for a fact is Hurts has performed at a high level. Yes, it was with a talented team, but he had to deliver the ball and make plays with his legs. It's all speculation whether Jones do the same under the same circumstances. While I don't like Hurts as a thrower, he's infinitely better than Jones at making off-platform plays. I don't think it's particularly close. And that goes back to my earlier point that Hurts is just a football player and know how to win. He's won everywhere in his football life.

Jones picked apart Minnesota twice in 2022. It was against an opponent that the Giants essentially were on par with. Now put him on the Eagles with a vastly superior line and vastly superior WRs and TE... (Giants WRs and TEs in 2022 were Hodgins and someone else.

I will agree Hurts in better "off platform". I think it is likely true, that it isn't that Jones is better but that Hurts is with a vastly superior team that made him look very good. He didn't look so good last year.

whether Hurts is truly an elite QB I think can be debated fairly from either side, whether there is not a significant gap between Hurts and Jones is ludicrous. Just look at some of the throws that Hurts makes--yes, he has great receivers who make plays on the ball, but he gets the ball where it needs to be. Chris Simms just says stupid things because he has to get clicks.

In comment 16553893 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 16553866 bw in dc said: Quote: than Jones will ever have. He's actually more of afootball player than QB, IMV. And he has the winning chromosome. I think Hurts is an average thrower at best. Same with Jones. So, I actually that similarity between the two. But ask yourself this question. If you need to win a game, who are you talking? Good luck making a case for Jones... Both players on teams with equivalent talent? In other words Jones is not on this Giants team and Hurts is not on this Eagles team? Teams with equal talent...Remember Hurts is on one of the best teams in football while Jones is on one of the worst. Or, let's switch teams = put Hurts on the Giants and Jones on the Eagles....now let's talk. And remember I am not a Jones fan.

Put them on the same team and then talk.

Reversing the situations just keeps the same dependent/independent noise.

Compare him vs DJ in the head to head playoff game.

That being said, things change really fast in the NFL. Id be curious to see how Hurts looks if Brown and 3/5 of their OL get hurt in camp.

It's hard to claim that there's a large gap between him and Hurts at this point, but with better receivers to throw to and a better OL to protect him, I expect we will see that gap grow in the future!

In comment 16553928 Ron Johnson said:

Quote:

Hurts rolls to his right sets his feet to launch the Hail Mary. It comes up 20 yards short. The Eagles lose and Hurts punctuates the loss by revealing a stunning lack of arm talent.

I can't tell if you are being sarcastic, but Hurts lost his footing on the play.

In comment 16553970 Milton said:

Quote:

It's hard to claim that there's a large gap between him and Hurts at this point, but with better receivers to throw to and a better OL to protect him, I expect we will see that gap grow in the future!

Ok Jack Stroud.

Is winning a super bowl.

could be overrated. I would buy that.

but this thread is Giants fan fantasy. Have this thread on any other NFL Forum with this premise (the gap in talent between Hurts and Jones is not significant) and you get laughed off the internet.

By transitive property per 5bowls BBI thread on the gap between Jones and DeVito we can also conclude most of you (and Simms) believe the gap between Hurts and DeVito is then also not significant.

In comment 16553979 UberAlias said:

Quote:

Is winning a super bowl.

Hurts came pretty fucking close to winning a super bowl two years ago and they might've pulled it off if not for a questionable flag call on Bradberry. He's still 25 years old. Are you really 100% sure he'll never win a super bowl?

In comment 16553979 UberAlias said:

Quote:

Is winning a super bowl.

Hurts came within a few minutes of doing so--I think saying he won't win one is not accurate. Again, Jones has considerably less talent than Hurts, but the two are not close. Our job should be to find someone who can win for us. The Eagles found someone who can win for them, at the very least, if they give him a good roster. We need to find our guy (and maybe the guy to give us a good roster, too).

We've seen the Lamar Jackson's and Hurts knock on the door with legitimate SB caliber rosters behind them. So of course, it's possible, but we have a long continuing history of that mold of QBs coming up short. So that's not where I'm putting my money.

if Hurts is the QB here? I guess I could be convinced of that, maybe. Maybe. I could also buy the take that says they'd be about the same.

But what do I know. I just think the game of football makes fools of us all when it comes to QB evaluation. My theory is it's the most team orientated game ever created and the QB position depends on the team or roster around him more than any other position in pro sports. And yes, the QB is the most important position. It's co dependent and the QB's talent level is vital to a team's success. Both things can be true. I know....blowing of the mind stuff right there.

in no particular order:

Lamar Jackson
Pat Mahomes
Joe Burrow
Stroud
Lawrence (he was hurt in 2023, he's better than that)
Josh Allen
Tua
Dak
Caleb Williams (I am going there despite it being too soon)
Brock Purdy
Matt Stafford
Kyler Murray (he's fully healthy)

That's just me. Dak was developed the right way, played on good teams and is now a consistent QB. Not great. Doesn't win the big games for shit but he gets you there. Same for PUrdy but he's won playoff games and wasn't bad in the super bowl by any stretch. I love his vision and ability to slide in the pocket. Again, he came up in the perfect system HE's probably not THE Brock Purdy if drafted by the Browns or Titans or Saints. Drafted by the right team at the right time matters. A lot.

In comment 16553933 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 16553893 section125 said: Quote: In comment 16553866 bw in dc said: Quote: than Jones will ever have. He's actually more of afootball player than QB, IMV. And he has the winning chromosome. I think Hurts is an average thrower at best. Same with Jones. So, I actually that similarity between the two. But ask yourself this question. If you need to win a game, who are you talking? Good luck making a case for Jones... Both players on teams with equivalent talent? In other words Jones is not on this Giants team and Hurts is not on this Eagles team? Teams with equal talent...Remember Hurts is on one of the best teams in football while Jones is on one of the worst. Or, let's switch teams = put Hurts on the Giants and Jones on the Eagles....now let's talk. And remember I am not a Jones fan. Put them on the same team and then talk. Reversing the situations just keeps the same dependent/independent noise.

Either way, it will show Hurts is a beneficiary of a superior team with better players around him.

In no way am I saying Jones is a surefire SB QB with a team like the Eagles. I am agreeing that Hurts is on a team with vastly better players so is likely overrated.

In comment 16553929 section125 said:

Quote:

Jones picked apart Minnesota twice in 2022. It was against an opponent that the Giants essentially were on par with. Now put him on the Eagles with a vastly superior line and vastly superior WRs and TE... (Giants WRs and TEs in 2022 were Hodgins and someone else. I will agree Hurts in better "off platform". I think it is likely true, that it isn't that Jones is better but that Hurts is with a vastly superior team that made him look very good. He didn't look so good last year.

Well, Hurts lit Minnesota up in 2022 as well, just like most of the QBs who Minnesota played that year. So as far as I'm concerned, those performances by Jones are overstated around here.

Again, I can't make that leap that Jones would so much better on a better team and put-up numbers like Hurts did in 2022. That requires ignoring a lot of poor play in his five years here, especially when things did hold up and he still couldn't deliver. Yes, there have been times when his supporting cast didn't perform, but it's also been the other way around, too...

if the Giants traded Jones for Hurts i'd be excited I won't lie. I think he's done everything Philly could have hoped for and I can't sit here and say he's not a good QB. I just think he's been as well protected and insulated as any QB in the game. I Want to see him do it again as the philly roster slowly deteriorates. I have seen Dak continue to win 10+ games nearly every season since he was a rookie. The players changes around Dak yet he keeps winning. Shit went a little sideways in November of 2023 and Hurts shit the bed, completely. That's the last thought or impression I have of Hurts so until that changes I am a little concerned (hopeful) that he struggles in 24 but that team seems stacked. Not sure WTF happened to Phily last season. Actually I am, shit went from perfect to flawed either due to injury, coaching or a little of both. Shit happens.

In comment 16554002 bw in dc said:

Quote:

That requires ignoring a lot of poor play in his five years here, especially when things did hold up and he still couldn't deliver. Yes, there have been times when his supporting cast didn't perform, but it's also been the other way around, too...

Every QB has shit day, ask Eli vs Minnesota. I do not want to seem to be saying Jones is "our QB", but am agreeing Hurts is likely overrated.
As far as you last sentence - again vastly more often the Giants around Jones were putrid. Without doubt Seattle last year clearly supports your statement Jones couldn't deliver when he should have and had the chance.

Clearly Jones absolute consistent ceiling is mediocre/middle of the pack.

In comment 16553928 Ron Johnson said:

Quote:

Hurts rolls to his right sets his feet to launch the Hail Mary. It comes up 20 yards short. The Eagles lose and Hurts punctuates the loss by revealing a stunning lack of arm talent.

Thanks for reminding me of this very play. I needed a good laugh and I did laugh greatly when it happened live lol hahahhaha

In comment 16553901 Giant John said:

Quote:

With a quality offense he can be successful. Sims has him rated 23rd? If that accurate we should be looking to upgrade.

You are kidding, correct? I don't think I've seen a place overvalue a player more than BBI does with Jones and their excuses for him.

In comment 16553983 Metnut said:

Quote:

In comment 16553979 UberAlias said: Quote: Is winning a super bowl. Hurts came pretty fucking close to winning a super bowl two years ago and they might've pulled it off if not for a questionable flag call on Bradberry. He's still 25 years old. Are you really 100% sure he'll never win a super bowl?

That wasn't questionable at all. It was the right call.

is significantly better than Jones.

This is an absurd claim by Simms but he's know for them. He doesn't throw an accurate ball, and paying 40 million to a bottom 8 QB is debilitating to your franchise.

Hurts came 2nd in MVP and was incredibly close to a super bowl and also is entering his 4 starting season compared to Jones 6th. Will Jones ever get a MVP vote?


That's not all on the supporting cast. Outrageous argument.

In comment 16553999 djm said:

Quote:

in no particular order: Lamar Jackson Pat Mahomes Joe Burrow Stroud Lawrence (he was hurt in 2023, he's better than that) Josh Allen Tua Dak Caleb Williams (I am going there despite it being too soon) Brock Purdy Matt Stafford Kyler Murray (he's fully healthy) That's just me. Dak was developed the right way, played on good teams and is now a consistent QB. Not great. Doesn't win the big games for shit but he gets you there. Same for PUrdy but he's won playoff games and wasn't bad in the super bowl by any stretch. I love his vision and ability to slide in the pocket. Again, he came up in the perfect system HE's probably not THE Brock Purdy if drafted by the Browns or Titans or Saints. Drafted by the right team at the right time matters. A lot.

Add a few more:
Jordan Love
Cousins
Goff
Herbert
Hurts (I think he and Jones are in the same class as passers, but you can't ignore the numbers which are completely one-sided).

In comment 16553846 Jay7852 said:

Quote:

Bunch of 1 yard TDs inflate his stats. He can run, but Isn’t fast or explosive. Has below average arm talent. Has benefited greatly from an amazing Oline and weapons (who never seemed to get injured).

AJ Brown was banged up in the last Giants game and missed their playoff game. Hurts scores 9 points and a first round exit to a barely mediocre Bucs squad.

He's a talented kid but he isn't Eben in the same universe as Mahomes, Burrow and Allen.

In comment 16554024 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

Add a few more: Jordan Love Cousins Goff Herbert Hurts (I think he and Jones are in the same class as passers, but you can't ignore the numbers which are completely one-sided).

djm is one of a few BBI posters who thinks Jones is as talented as Herbert.

He's one of the few people on the planet who thinks this.

if you listed the NFL starters that you WOULDN'T rather have...

just sayin.

Hurts has clearly performed better. Context there is Philly is pretty much a dream scenario for a QB right now with a great OL, great receivers and a very good TE. So yeah, you can spin it to say Jones would be better with the same opportunity but how much is the question I guess. I still think Jones has to be much much better getting the ball into the end zone via the pass and less affected by pressure.

I guess I would agree that the gap isn't quite as significant as you think at first glance (mostly because I think Hurts is average) but I still take Hurts at the moment. Hoping for some improvement in Jones this year though and I think its not impossible for it to happen if we can protect him.

In comment 16553975 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16553928 Ron Johnson said: Quote: Hurts rolls to his right sets his feet to launch the Hail Mary. It comes up 20 yards short. The Eagles lose and Hurts punctuates the loss by revealing a stunning lack of arm talent. I can't tell if you are being sarcastic, but Hurts lost his footing on the play.

Roseman says he lost his footing when he gave Hurts 250 million.

In comment 16553901 Giant John said:

Quote:

With a quality offense he can be successful. Sims has him rated 23rd? If that accurate we should be looking to upgrade.

Trading Jones for Hurts straight up would not help the Giants at all.

In comment 16554110 OntheRoad said:

Quote:

In comment 16553901 Giant John said: Quote: With a quality offense he can be successful. Sims has him rated 23rd? If that accurate we should be looking to upgrade. Trading Jones for Hurts straight up would not help the Giants at all.

I dunno about that. A healthy Hurts on the Giants last season and they win 8 - 9 games.

Read and weep….

2024: 13 M
2025: 21 M
2026: 31 M
2027: 41 M

I will stop there…..

2028: 47 M
2029. 97 M


The whole world knows Howie Roseman already has a plan to minimalize the 2029 cap #….

Why isn’t Brandon Brown showing us how to do what Howie does?

In comment 16554223 compton said:

Quote:

In comment 16554110 OntheRoad said: Quote: In comment 16553901 Giant John said: Quote: With a quality offense he can be successful. Sims has him rated 23rd? If that accurate we should be looking to upgrade. Trading Jones for Hurts straight up would not help the Giants at all. I dunno about that. A healthy Hurts on the Giants last season and they win 8 - 9 games.

A healthy Jones wins 8 or 9 games or a healthy Taylor, for that matter.

In comment 16554234 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 16554223 compton said: Quote: In comment 16554110 OntheRoad said: Quote: In comment 16553901 Giant John said: Quote: With a quality offense he can be successful. Sims has him rated 23rd? If that accurate we should be looking to upgrade. Trading Jones for Hurts straight up would not help the Giants at all. I dunno about that. A healthy Hurts on the Giants last season and they win 8 - 9 games. A healthy Jones wins 8 or 9 games or a healthy Taylor, for that matter.

Wasn't a healthy Jones 1 - 5 with more interceptions than touchdowns.

In comment 16554063 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16554024 HomerJones45 said: Quote: Add a few more: Jordan Love Cousins Goff Herbert Hurts (I think he and Jones are in the same class as passers, but you can't ignore the numbers which are completely one-sided). djm is one of a few BBI posters who thinks Jones is as talented as Herbert. He's one of the few people on the planet who thinks this.

thanks for putting words in my mouth. Never ever did I say that but hey, win the BBI for a moment if u must.

I said Herbert hasn't won fucking shit in the NFL despite being BBI's darling. I also said despite all the bbi ball swishing on Herbert he (Chargers) literally scored nearly the same pts as Jones (NYG) did in the 2022 season despite...yeah...more talent on the Chargers which we all know is true.

I never said more talented. And yet, what the fuck has he won there beedub ? NADA. that's what. Thanks for playing. HE has a better arm and quicker release. Great. Until proven otherwise he's Jay Cutler.

which of course likely sent BBI into a fucking frenzy but I don't care enough to check the rest of this thread. I now realize this thread is a waste of time. My point stands. Most average to good Qbs ebb and flow as their team plays. I know...deep thoughts. Hard to process such a nuanced take.

Maybe Harbaugh helps him win games. Coaching and team play matters. Exhibit A is your wonderboy.

In comment 16554270 djm said:

Quote:

which of course likely sent BBI into a fucking frenzy but I don't care enough to check the rest of this thread. I now realize this thread is a waste of time. My point stands. Most average to good Qbs ebb and flow as their team plays. I know...deep thoughts. Hard to process such a nuanced take. Maybe Harbaugh helps him win games. Coaching and team play matters. Exhibit A is your wonderboy.

Just busting your chops. I assumed you would get the sarcasm after our many discussions on Herbert v Jones.

In comment 16554233 5BowlsSoon said:

Quote:

2028: 47 M 2029. 97 M The whole world knows Howie Roseman already has a plan to minimalize the 2029 cap #…. Why isn’t Brandon Brown showing us how to do what Howie does?

Brandon Brown wasn’t the cap guy when he was there and it is even clear he was involved with it to teach us what they did. Their cap guy did just leave his position and maybe we should hire him as our Asst GM.

As it is having job security. He's not getting fired. He can constantly push money into the future. Stability matters. The best thing for Schoen is getting to a point where the team is good enough and he doesn't need to worry about job security.

Hurts couldn’t do any better than DJ did with the Giants offensive personnel. He has a top 5wr, top 15wr, top 5 TE, and arguably the best OL since he’s been starting. Outside of Saquon, and possibly (although Mailata & Johnson are beasts) , not one Giant would crack their lineup.

Now could DJ do what Hurts did with Philly’s offense? Possibly. But I know for damn sure Hurts would do no better here.

In comment 16554332 DeVito32 said:

Quote:

Hurts couldn’t do any better than DJ did with the Giants offensive personnel. He has a top 5wr, top 15wr, top 5 TE, and arguably the best OL since he’s been starting. Outside of Saquon, and possibly (although Mailata & Johnson are beasts) , not one Giant would crack their lineup. Now could DJ do what Hurts did with Philly’s offense? Possibly. But I know for damn sure Hurts would do no better here.

You don't actually know that. Both sides of your argument are pure conjecture.

In comment 16554339 Gatorade Dunk said:

Quote:

In comment 16554332 DeVito32 said: Quote: Hurts couldn’t do any better than DJ did with the Giants offensive personnel. He has a top 5wr, top 15wr, top 5 TE, and arguably the best OL since he’s been starting. Outside of Saquon, and possibly (although Mailata & Johnson are beasts) , not one Giant would crack their lineup. Now could DJ do what Hurts did with Philly’s offense? Possibly. But I know for damn sure Hurts would do no better here. You don't actually know that. Both sides of your argument are pure conjecture.

According to Schoen, no one could win with our offensive personnel last year. Not even Mahomes. ;)

By some on BBIs logic, no QB can be successful if the team around him isn’t very good and every QB could be successful if the pieces around him are great. Does that about sum it up? With that being the case, I’d wonder why any team pays any QB anything? Why are they paying QBs 20% of the cap when they are so dependent on everything else around them? Hmmmm

In comment 16554352 BigBlueShock said:

Quote:

By some on BBIs logic, no QB can be successful if the team around him isn’t very good and every QB could be successful if the pieces around him are great. Does that about sum it up? With that being the case, I’d wonder why any team pays any QB anything? Why are they paying QBs 20% of the cap when they are so dependent on everything else around them? Hmmmm

Exactly. Every QB besides Mahomes "hasn't won shit" and is a product of the surrounding talent. All QBs should make the league minimum and that money should be invested in the "supporting cast". Then just get a QB who is "hard working" and "easy to root for" so the fans can relate to the guy who gets all the credit for wins

In comment 16554355 Jerry in_DC said:

Quote:

Exactly. Every QB besides Mahomes "hasn't won shit" and is a product of the surrounding talent. All QBs should make the league minimum and that money should be invested in the "supporting cast". Then just get a QB who is "hard working" and "easy to root for" so the fans can relate to the guy who gets all the credit for wins

NYG has taken this theory a step further, however, by declaring a QB needs six years to be fully evaluated.

In comment 16554352 BigBlueShock said:

Quote:

By some on BBIs logic, no QB can be successful if the team around him isn’t very good and every QB could be successful if the pieces around him are great. Does that about sum it up? With that being the case, I’d wonder why any team pays any QB anything? Why are they paying QBs 20% of the cap when they are so dependent on everything else around them? Hmmmm

Let me get this right. You cannot to understand the nuances of roster construction. There is no doubt an elite QB can take a medium level roster to the playoffs that a mediocre Qb cannot do. This is true. See Tom Brady in the last 4 or 5 years.

On the other hand, Lets look no farther than the NY Giants 2012 to 2018 with Eli. Eli a bonafide top QB, same guy that won 2 Super Bowls in 4 years, couldn't get to the playoffs after SB46. Why was that? Because his roster sucked.

Most definitely, a great QB helps a team move forward. But it guarantees nothing.

Hurts is better. And it isn't close.

In comment 16554359 section125 said:

Quote:

In comment 16554352 BigBlueShock said: Quote: By some on BBIs logic, no QB can be successful if the team around him isn’t very good and every QB could be successful if the pieces around him are great. Does that about sum it up? With that being the case, I’d wonder why any team pays any QB anything? Why are they paying QBs 20% of the cap when they are so dependent on everything else around them? Hmmmm Let me get this right. You cannot to understand the nuances of roster construction. There is no doubt an elite QB can take a medium level roster to the playoffs that a mediocre Qb cannot do. This is true. See Tom Brady in the last 4 or 5 years. On the other hand, Lets look no farther than the NY Giants 2012 to 2018 with Eli. Eli a bonafide top QB, same guy that won 2 Super Bowls in 4 years, couldn't get to the playoffs after SB46. Why was that? Because his roster sucked. Most definitely, a great QB helps a team move forward. But it guarantees nothing.

Of course the surrounding cast matters. But not surprisingly you missed the point. I’ve been reading posts on this site since Jones has been the starter that nobody could succeed with these pieces around him. There of course is no proof of that, but it makes you clowns feel better telling yourselves that. I’ve also seen posters claim that any QB could succeed in Philly or San Fran, while they try to minimize what Hurts and Purdue have done. Of course those minimizing those Pro Bowl QBs are also the same ones that praise Daniel freakin Jones. Based on nothing but hopes, wishes, fantasies and one incredibly outlier game against a horrific defense in the greatest Wild Card game ever played.

If you want to pretend Jones is some kind of hidden talent just waiting to explode, fine. If it makes you sleep better at night, who am I to ruin your dreams. But just STFU when it comes to much, much, much more successful QBs. There’s no need to bring them down just to try to prop your boy, it’s stupid

This narrative that 'Look @ what Jones has had to work with' is so fucking infuriating to me. HE WAS DRAFTED SIXTH OVERALL! Was it a reach? Of course, but still...when one is drafted sixth overall, the expectation is he's a player who will elevate others around him. And the dude is making $40 fucking million dollars. Yeah, again, there's an expectation he makes the team better. But for some, Jones needs All Pros at every position to succeed. And it amazes me the rope he gets from some here...I've never seen anything like it as a Giants fan. This is fucking year six. Are we going to be crossing our fingers in 2029 that he'll eventually get it?

Sorry. Rant over.

They don't realize that every backup caliber QB will have a few good games if you give them a lot of starts. Their only reference points are Giants QBs so they go back 40 years for comparisons. And they are comfortable with Daniel's off field profile.

Given their limited knowledge base, you might expect a little more humility. But Daniel seems to cast a powerful spell over certain people with his off the field qualities.

In comment 16554388 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

when one is drafted sixth overall, the expectation is he's a player who will elevate others around him. And the dude is making $40 fucking million dollars. Yeah, again, there's an expectation he makes the team better.

In 2022 that's exactly what he did and that's why he got the "40 fucking million dollars"

In comment 16554002 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16553929 section125 said: Quote: Jones picked apart Minnesota twice in 2022. It was against an opponent that the Giants essentially were on par with. Now put him on the Eagles with a vastly superior line and vastly superior WRs and TE... (Giants WRs and TEs in 2022 were Hodgins and someone else. I will agree Hurts in better "off platform". I think it is likely true, that it isn't that Jones is better but that Hurts is with a vastly superior team that made him look very good. He didn't look so good last year. Well, Hurts lit Minnesota up in 2022 as well, just like most of the QBs who Minnesota played that year. So as far as I'm concerned, those performances by Jones are overstated around here. Again, I can't make that leap that Jones would so much better on a better team and put-up numbers like Hurts did in 2022. That requires ignoring a lot of poor play in his five years here, especially when things did hold up and he still couldn't deliver. Yes, there have been times when his supporting cast didn't perform, but it's also been the other way around, too...

This.

People here act like last year was an aberration. In 5 years he had one mediocre season that has been so overblown. And a couple of individual games against terrible Ds are given as evidence of his worth.

since his Bama days. Philly has a lot of talent. Crucial turnover in the SB. Good QB in a great situation.

Philly and Dallas have excelled compared to Giants starting at the OL. In 2017, Philly had three PB OL and won the SB with a backup QB and LT. Dallas also had three PB OL. Philly again had three PB OL in 2022. Then better skill talent. Talent has been the issue for the Giants starting on the lines.

Giants had its first PB OL in 2022 since...2012. There is not a good QB in the league who does not have a significant amount of talent around him. Then the coaching aspect. Jones does has issues but the Giants have had bigger ones.

Who was the Giants pro bowler offensive lineman in 2022? Do you mean DL? Dexter Lawrence?

Thomas.

In comment 16554388 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

This narrative that 'Look @ what Jones has had to work with' is so fucking infuriating to me. HE WAS DRAFTED SIXTH OVERALL! Was it a reach? Of course, but still...when one is drafted sixth overall, the expectation is he's a player who will elevate others around him. And the dude is making $40 fucking million dollars. Yeah, again, there's an expectation he makes the team better. But for some, Jones needs All Pros at every position to succeed. And it amazes me the rope he gets from some here...I've never seen anything like it as a Giants fan. This is fucking year six. Are we going to be crossing our fingers in 2029 that he'll eventually get it? Sorry. Rant over.

I'm with you 100%.
It's absolutely mind boggling.

I say DJ has the better carer....

In comment 16553888 xman said:

Quote:

to pay real stars. Jones is playing like a back up so his pay should be much lower

Jones is the 15th highest paid QB in the league... it's way overblown. It's probably 4-5 million more than he's actually worth on the market. If we could (we can't) hypothetically cut him, he'd be picked up in a minute by someone.

In comment 16555098 4xchamps said:

Quote:

In comment 16553888 xman said: Quote: to pay real stars. Jones is playing like a back up so his pay should be much lower Jones is the 15th highest paid QB in the league... it's way overblown. It's probably 4-5 million more than he's actually worth on the market. If we could (we can't) hypothetically cut him, he'd be picked up in a minute by someone.

As a backup. Who is starting Jones over their current QB? LV?

In comment 16554020 Route 9 said:

Quote:

In comment 16553901 Giant John said: Quote: With a quality offense he can be successful. Sims has him rated 23rd? If that accurate we should be looking to upgrade. You are kidding, correct? I don't think I've seen a place overvalue a player more than BBI does with Jones and their excuses for him.

WOW! I see it as EXACTLY the opposite. Every thread is a kill DJ thread, even if the subject is "What are you eating today?"

In comment 16555206 4xchamps said:

Quote:

In comment 16554020 Route 9 said: Quote: In comment 16553901 Giant John said: Quote: With a quality offense he can be successful. Sims has him rated 23rd? If that accurate we should be looking to upgrade. You are kidding, correct? I don't think I've seen a place overvalue a player more than BBI does with Jones and their excuses for him. WOW! I see it as EXACTLY the opposite. Every thread is a kill DJ thread, even if the subject is "What are you eating today?"

That's because you think any observation that doesn't overtly gargle DJ's manhood is a "kill DJ thread."

In comment 16553910 56goat said:

Quote:

Not a fan of Hurts, but the biggest difference between the two is the neck injuries. Regardless of where you rank DJ versus other QBs, the history of serious, potentially career ending neck injuries is a ticking timebomb that needs a Plan B ASAP (and I don't mean Lock or Cutlets). Anyone want to give odds on DJ lasting as a starting QB another 10 years?

...