I am a long time lurker who pops in here from time to time. I keep seeing all of this analysis of John and Tim and how John is poking his nose in football stuff. Both, it seems should just stay out of the way. I don’t get it.
What if Schoen were panicked that he is on his last year? Don’t we want someone who will make sure that the GM doesn’t roll the dice with crazy moves to buy more time? He seems to have struck a balance between allowing Schoen to operate while staying involved enough to know Schoen’s thought process. So many posters think his involvement can only mess up the smarter minds.
I know we can’t tell how much he put his thumb on the scale in the past, but expecting him to not say anything to avoid the risk his GM will feel too much pressure sounds absurd. He should expect the GM to tell him when and why he is wrong.
On a similar note, succession in these businesses is difficult. Shouldn’t Mara want his nephew to learn the way decisions are made if he is going to succeed him? Even if McConnell’s judgement is off, having him in the room is how he can get better. In a family business, its a challenge for someone in Joe’s position, but he has a better shot of influencing Tim to be a better owner down the road if Tim learns the personnel side from him.
Hiring an “outside the family” COO doesn’t mean you should give up your right to meddle.
Yeah, Tim is the one who worries me the most.
Hiring an “outside the family” COO doesn’t mean you should give up your right to meddle.
No one questions his “right” as the owner. I think we are questioning his football sense. The success in the last 50 years was when football men took charge and went counter to the family instincts
Where I have a problem with the Maras is that they seem to be awful-AWFUL-evaluators in terms of fielding a winning team. Both Wellington & now John seem to be way too loyal and sentimental. Football is a business. & if you're running a business, you have to be cutthroat at times & put aside your feelings towards people. For example, John acts like DJ is a son. Dude, like WTF?
Hiring an “outside the family” COO doesn’t mean you should give up your right to meddle.
Yeah, let's hope the families sell and the Giants end up with a Dan Snyder owner. Right. I just don't understand people bitching about an owner sharing his opinions with the GM.
Should Eric not have any input on running this site and just let the mods make all the decisions?
He's the president and CEO of the organization and serves at the pleasure of his siblings and the Tisches.
His job is to run the organization, not run the football operation.
I don't think a lot of fans can wrap their head around that last distinction. A more simple way to put it: his job is to make money for the other stakeholders, and Joe Schoen's job is to construct a winning football team.
He's the president and CEO of the organization and serves at the pleasure of his siblings and the Tisches.
His job is to run the organization, not run the football operation.
I don't think a lot of fans can wrap their head around that last distinction. A more simple way to put it: his job is to make money for the other stakeholders, and Joe Schoen's job is to construct a winning football team.
We all assume Tim McDonnell is next in line, but couldn't the Tisch side stop that? If the team struggles for the next few years, why would Tisch be okay with that arrangement? I get they're job is to run the organization, but they are involved in personnel.
I always thought Cousin Greg was the heir apparent, but I'm guessing he goes the Chris Mara route and pretends to get interviews as a GM for a living.
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Any business, and you grew up and worked in the business for 50+ years, don’t you think you have a right to meddle?
Hiring an “outside the family” COO doesn’t mean you should give up your right to meddle.
Yeah, let's hope the families sell and the Giants end up with a Dan Snyder owner. Right. I just don't understand people bitching about an owner sharing his opinions with the GM.
Should Eric not have any input on running this site and just let the mods make all the decisions?
When you've been bad as long s the Giants have been, your input should be questioned.
Owner or not.
I swear some of you just love the machine.
John Mara is aging.. The NYG Giants franchise as a new worth value of 6.8 BILLION dollars.. Someone has to be groomed to take over..
90-95% of the time he trusts me because of my experience to do whats right to make the business money.. Just last week I made a purchase.. he was asking do we need to do this... I showed him the data that we did..
Ownership making their opinion known is NOT necessarily meddling.. Its how business is done and gets done.,.
Kevin Abrams definitely would get serious consideration
You want meddling? How about Dan Snyder when he was in DC, Jerry Jones, Al Davis, Robert Kraft...?
So no, us fans don't think these are the guys that should be "watching" over our GM. Schoen is more qualified to make football decisions than Mara or McDonnell and shouldn't be subject to their scrutiny.
IMO both should report directly to the teams owner, Steve Tisch, so football and business are kept separately.
He's the president and CEO of the organization and serves at the pleasure of his siblings and the Tisches.
His job is to run the organization, not run the football operation.
I don't think a lot of fans can wrap their head around that last distinction. A more simple way to put it: his job is to make money for the other stakeholders, and Joe Schoen's job is to construct a winning football team.
This!
John is not THE OWNER who writes the check. He own's 1/11th of 50% of the franchise which is more akin to a large shareholder than an actual owner. The largest stakeholder is Steve Tisch.
Now, to their credit, the Mara family seems to band closely together in their decision making which makes it hard for Tisch to completely dictate anything without their input. However, John still shouldn't be viewed as THE OWNER, rather just another person with a board voted job in the org.
IMO the easiest fix is that the GM no longer reports to John and reports to the board just as John does. This removes John from football decisions which he's incredibly poor at.
You mean besides the fact that he is the founders Grandson ???
I get the sense the BOD is really just a formality, and Steve and John just get their decisions rubber stamped by the other members. I'm not sure it makes a big difference.
I think the Chiefs have the right model. Hunt as the CEO and Donovan as President with the coach and GM reporting to the president.
Donovan is a business guy, but got a cup of coffee in the NFL. That football background probably helps him understand what he doesn't know.
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Must be one of the owners. John Mara could retire and they could conduct a search and hire a non owner for that role. That would be commonplace. The fact that McDonnell is the heir apparent is odd.
You mean besides the fact that he is the founders Grandson ???
He’s the founder’s great grandson, and I’m not sure why that matters. The Mara’s own 50% of the team, it was Wellington’s decision (Tim’s actual grandfather) to sell half of the team (estate issues aside). You can be 1,000% certain that when it comes time for John to step down, that the Tisch’s will push hard for someone outside the Mara family be hired to run it.
I'm sure they all enjoy a comfortable life as a result of the earnings the team makes, but I don't individually they are billionaires.
The next generation of Maras only dilutes the equity, and will add more voiced and mouths to feed.
I'm sure they all enjoy a comfortable life as a result of the earnings the team makes, but I don't individually they are billionaires.
The next generation of Maras only dilutes the equity, and will add more voiced and mouths to feed.
I saw a rankings of each NFL owner and their net worth, NYG is near the bottom and Steve Tisch was listed.
I don't see the Maras ever selling, but it definitely gets messier for the next generation.
If you give a GM an ultimatum, you've already fired him. The Giants needed a clean slate, instead they got plate the dishwasher left big spots on. And they've been trying to eat off it in one form or another since.
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IMO the easiest fix is that the GM no longer reports to John and reports to the board just as John does. This removes John from football decisions which he's incredibly poor at.
I get the sense the BOD is really just a formality, and Steve and John just get their decisions rubber stamped by the other members. I'm not sure it makes a big difference.
I think the Chiefs have the right model. Hunt as the CEO and Donovan as President with the coach and GM reporting to the president.
Donovan is a business guy, but got a cup of coffee in the NFL. That football background probably helps him understand what he doesn't know.
To your point, I've never seen any evidence of the rest of the Mara's turning to John and saying "things need to change". Aside from Chris and Tim McDonnell, they all seem happy to collect checks and let John run things.
John Mara is going to be 70, so my guess is something comes to a head in the next 5 years.
If it's Cousin Greg, may the gods help us.
I'm sure they all enjoy a comfortable life as a result of the earnings the team makes, but I don't individually they are billionaires.
The next generation of Maras only dilutes the equity, and will add more voiced and mouths to feed.
Regarding the dilution of equity, a few years ago I was renting a house from a family that was in a similar situation. The grandfather had owned a tobacco farm, and then developed the land. When he passed his kids inherited the estate, and by the time I was renting this property there were 11 or 13 kids/grandkids collecting off the estate. Apparently they were no longer content with collecting rent and started selling off the properties, including the one I was renting. I assume they wanted the cash lump sums to divide.
Tisch's have been plenty of involved. They forced Coughlin out when it was clear the far bigger problem was the front office for years.
At least in more recent years did they start rooting out the rot in the front office. TBD if those changes were the right ones. They also seem more willing to spend outside of the players.
I'm sure they all enjoy a comfortable life as a result of the earnings the team makes, but I don't individually they are billionaires.
The next generation of Maras only dilutes the equity, and will add more voiced and mouths to feed.
Regarding the dilution of equity, a few years ago I was renting a house from a family that was in a similar situation. The grandfather had owned a tobacco farm, and then developed the land. When he passed his kids inherited the estate, and by the time I was renting this property there were 11 or 13 kids/grandkids collecting off the estate. Apparently they were no longer content with collecting rent and started selling off the properties, including the one I was renting. I assume they wanted the cash lump sums to divide.
That's a good example. I assume the governing agreement allows for the other Maras to have rights of first refusal if a family member wants to sell. I don't expect the 50% share to move out of the family. In fact, we don't know if that hasn't already happened. I wouldn't be surprised to learn one of the minor characters in the play divested, and the remaining siblings own a slightly larger share of the pie.
I think the dillution also applies to the power dynamics. I'm not sure Cousin Greg, son of one of the other daughters has the same claim to power.
If you give a GM an ultimatum, you've already fired him. The Giants needed a clean slate, instead they got plate the dishwasher left big spots on. And they've been trying to eat off it in one form or another since.
Right. They should have recommitted to Reese if they kept him. Not an ultimatum. Horrific mistake by Mara.
I've debated starting a thread though of what happens if Reese & McAdoo are retained after 2017. Let's assume Mara allows the Manning plan to continue despite the outrage. I'd make a solid bet it couldn't be worse than what followed with Gettleman/Shurmur/Judge.
The angst with Schoen re Barkley on hard knocks is silly.
Schoen had two years to keep him....and didn't.
Then when things went south the owner reminds him that Saquon is our most popular player.
They lost Barkley because the Jones deal was insane.
That's on them, not Barkley.
It was always a possibility the Eagles would have interest.
Schoen's sources focused on the Bears and in the end they weren't close on the money.
They had months to plan.
We are getting nowhere with these two.
I think you mean 35 posts, not threads.
Unless of course you were trying to make it 36 posts of having absolutely no effing clue?
The community is so lucky to have your brilliant insights and thread policing.
In recognition of your generosity, this Bud's for you.
John Mara seems indirect and passive. It's not like he is walking into the room and saying "Alright, men, what's the situation? Would hate to lose Barkley, he's a good player how would we replace him?" That would at least be clear and direct.
What he appears to do, instead, is mumble his point and dance around what he's trying to convey without actually saying it, leaving Schoen, et al. to interpret his meaning. It's more "Ah, well, Saquon is our most popular player..." or in response to Schoen's negative evaluation of the SB negotiations "I wouldn't bet on it...*walks out of room*"
Where is the value in any of those interactions? Yes, the Owner is entitled to have an opinion and to make it known - but at least state it clearly! The hemming and hawing and passive half-measures just slow down the actual football people from doing their jobs.