I found it interesting that Barkley called out Schoen specifically saying this is what "Joe thought of me."
I actually do agree with Barkley here. Schoen didn't want him back, and he should have just thanked him and move on. The idea of testing the market and coming back to Schoen just showed Schoen was completely off on the RB market. It's clear Barkley got multiple offers above what Schoen pegged the market at. As a GM, you'd like to have a better idea of where the market is at.
Link - (
New Window )
A) Sign Barkley and keep the OL line pretty much the same.
B) Don't resign Barkley and have the money to sign some good
vet OL men to protect the QB and help the run game with a
little lesser of a running back.
Schoen and Daboll chose B - and I really don't blame him.
Barkley was offered essentially the same thing he signed for this year in the previous season. It was Barkley and his agent that misread the market.
And, if there was a better offer to him, then he would not have signed with the Eagles.
Set a value on a player, let the player see if they can get more, and optionally if the player wants to be on your team, allow them to share their best offer with you for a chance to match or get close to the offer.
this is sports and it's a business.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
It was reported that the Giants offered 3 yrs at $12.5 mill and $22 mill gtd - ok, the Eagles offered $26 mill gtd. So the Giants offer, a year and a half earlier was in the ballpark.
Yes, he has some incentives available with the Eagles that may not have been offered by the Giants - we didn't get that far.
Saquon can fuck off. I wanted him at 2 so I have to eat crow but talk about a guy with an inflated ego. He had one great season here and one good one. The rest of it is all very forgettable and now he goes to the Eagles and talks shit starting with that stunt he pulled with his daughter.
Schoen did his best to sign him and would have gladly tagged DJ.
He then fires his agent, and now a year later, he blames Schoen. Give me a break. I'm all set with Saquon the tip toe bandit.
Exactly. The OP can't say Schoen didn't want him back in one breath and in the next breath say he misread the market. It can't be both. Either he didn't want him back and didn't give a shit about the market or he was willing to take him back and needed it to be for their number.
Hey come on now. That's the "face of the franchise" and "identity of the offense" you're talking about there.
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was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
It was reported that the Giants offered 3 yrs at $12.5 mill and $22 mill gtd - ok, the Eagles offered $26 mill gtd. So the Giants offer, a year and a half earlier was in the ballpark.
Yes, he has some incentives available with the Eagles that may not have been offered by the Giants - we didn't get that far.
Quit being a baby, bro.
;-)
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
“Per a league source with knowledge of the situation, the Giants extended an offer to Barkley worth $13 million per year, including $26 million over the first two years. “
The Giants offered him more on an APY basis than the Eagles. Less guaranteed And a year earlier. So, no the Eagles offer wasn’t really any better.
Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.
He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.
Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.
He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.
These facts seem to be ignored by the upset Giant fan.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
Totally agree with you!
Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.
He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.
That $47 is with incentives and the base contract we have seen was 3 yrs, $12.5 mill and $26 mill gtd...not sure where you got you numbers.
OTC Barkley - ( New Window )
Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.
He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.
absolutely right, but also this is one of those transactions that worked out well for both the player and the team. people get too emotional to agree.
Saquon gambled on himself and won, and the Giants get to free up $$ and reset the RB position to get a player who is in their prime when the Giants are contending and not pay a RB top of the scale, wasting precious cap dollars, while they're not a contender.
Yes he was their best offensive player and that's the headline for the media, but being the best player on a shitty offense doesn't get the team much.
That with the fact that the Giants pulled an offer from Saquon in 2023 and gave him a worse offer at the end of the season. That offer was actually worse than Barkley being tagged twice.
They also refused to trade him at the deadline to a contender last year and they also negotiated incentives in his tag like amount of TDs - which he fell 1 short of by the way. (I wonder how he felt seeing the Giants desperately try and get Sterling Shephard a TD in the second half of the last game instead of himself ? )
His numbers should dramatically improve in Philly... it was still the right call by Joe and Dabs
After it went down I dug into Barkley vs Singletary and they averaged the same yards per touch, somewhere about 4.3. The big difference is Barkley averaged something like 21 touches per game to Singletary's 14.
I also don't think Daboll wants to give any back 20+ touches a game so if he can match production per snap we shouldnt see much drop off
Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.
He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.
That $47 is with incentives and the base contract we have seen was 3 yrs, $12.5 mill and $26 mill gtd...not sure where you got you numbers. OTC Barkley - ( New Window )
That's not what I am referring to.
The Giants gave Barley 10.1M guaranteed dollars in 2023 + the Eagles gave him 26M in guarantees over 2024-2026.
The most rational outcome for both sides was Saquon to leave and get the most money he can in what is always a short career and Schoen to use the money that might have been spent retaining Saquon elsewhere on a shitty roster.
The most rational outcome for both sides was Saquon to leave and get the most money he can in what is always a short career and Schoen to use the money that might have been spent retaining Saquon elsewhere on a shitty roster.
Yup and that's really the bottom line.
This ego drama here.
This ego drama here.
👍
YAC, Explosion plays, and GPS Mph are all down.
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Team Barkley read the market pretty damn well. The Giants reportedly offered 3/33M with 22M guaranteed for the 2023-2025 seasons.
Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.
He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.
That $47 is with incentives and the base contract we have seen was 3 yrs, $12.5 mill and $26 mill gtd...not sure where you got you numbers. OTC Barkley - ( New Window )
That's not what I am referring to.
The Giants gave Barley 10.1M guaranteed dollars in 2023 + the Eagles gave him 26M in guarantees over 2024-2026.
He turned down basically the same deal in Nov 2022 - but with a smaller $22 m gtd amount. The reported (not verified) numbers were 3 yrs $12 or 12.5 per / $22 m gtd....
It doesn't matter now. Schoen really didn't want him back at those numbers.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
+1
With the addition that allowing him to test the market was the class move by the team and to SB’s benefit. The Giants could have tagged him again, which he didn’t want. So being sore about that is misplaced on his part imo.
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you posted Saquon's year-by-year productivity here without identifying him, many would be surprised.
After it went down I dug into Barkley vs Singletary and they averaged the same yards per touch, somewhere about 4.3. The big difference is Barkley averaged something like 21 touches per game to Singletary's 14.
I also don't think Daboll wants to give any back 20+ touches a game so if he can match production per snap we shouldnt see much drop off
I find these comparisons misleading. Football isn’t played in a lab. The 2 backs played behind 2 different OL, 2 different QBs, and different game situations.
They are very different backs. They do different things well. A case can be made Singletary fits this team better. But a case that they are the same with one cheaper than the other can’t be.
There are 2 questions:
1) Did Barkley make a good or bad decision turning down that deal? The answer to that is unequivocally "good" decision. He secured the franchise tender of 10.1M and then a contract with more guaranteed money. Instead of 22-23M in guarantees, he secured 36.1M.
2) Did the Giants make a good decision by managing him off the team? That's TBD.
No Ring of Honor now and all the amenities that come with it.
Even with the losing he could’ve cemented himself as an immortal in NY sports history.
And he left over a million $$$ in the short term.
Schoen wanted him back for sure, I don’t think it’s right to say the Giants had zero interest. They were hoping he came back at their price and played the long game.
I agree with you 100%. Move on please.
If it all works out, great. If the qb puts up another mediocre year, not that his fans will know the difference, then it's going to be Schoen's head in the noose. He chose the path.
This x 1,000. We can possibly fault Schoen for not having a read on the RB market, but the reality is that the top of the market was too rich for him. I’m not sure what Saquon is complaining about - Schoen did him a huge favor by allowing him to test the market rather than slapping the FT on him.
At this point, I don’t really care how it went down. Barkley is an Eagle, I don’t see the need to discuss him other than when we’re playing Philly.
There are 2 questions:
1) Did Barkley make a good or bad decision turning down that deal? The answer to that is unequivocally "good" decision. He secured the franchise tender of 10.1M and then a contract with more guaranteed money. Instead of 22-23M in guarantees, he secured 36.1M.
2) Did the Giants make a good decision by managing him off the team? That's TBD.
I never saw the $11 mill and frankly nobody on BBI has ever said that number(well, that I saw). I always read 3 at $12/12.5 and those are the only reported numbers I ever saw here. But 3 at $33 mill would have been light, yes. Rumor I remember was he wanted $13 mill AAV.
I still do not see his $36.1 gtd. OTC has $26 mill. If it was $36 mill gtd, that is a significant boost, absolutely.
He should have known how angry the Giant fanbase is now that he signed with a hated in-division rival. Signing with the Texans would not sting at all, and he could win with them also.
Now he is dead to me. ;-)
Personally, I like the approach. I want the passing game to be the focus and strength of the offense. I want the Giants to put all of the responsibility on Jones.
A) Sign Barkley and keep the OL line pretty much the same.
B) Don't resign Barkley and have the money to sign some good
vet OL men to protect the QB and help the run game with a
little lesser of a running back.
Schoen and Daboll chose B - and I really don't blame him.
Exactly
And the value Barkley had for the Giants was less than for the Eagles. I think they over-paid - but a difference maker is valuable when you are chasing a ring.
The fact Barkley bet on himself, rejected the LT offer, played on the tag and wound up getting another $26M means the right way to look at it is he got $36M guaranteed from 2023 - 2026.
Go Big Blue!
This ego drama here.
I agree - Barkley’s value to other teams was clearly more than his value to a Giants team with so many needs across the roster. That’s not disrespect from the Giants, that’s a sign that just maybe the Giants are trying to make prudent decisions about cap allocation for a change.
Perfectly reasonable that Philly thinks Barkley may put them over the top, so $13 million a year will be worth it. The Giants aren’t one RB, even an elite one when healthy from getting over the top
There are 2 questions:
1) Did Barkley make a good or bad decision turning down that deal? The answer to that is unequivocally "good" decision. He secured the franchise tender of 10.1M and then a contract with more guaranteed money. Instead of 22-23M in guarantees, he secured 36.1M.
2) Did the Giants make a good decision by managing him off the team? That's TBD.
I never saw the $11 mill and frankly nobody on BBI has ever said that number(well, that I saw). I always read 3 at $12/12.5 and those are the only reported numbers I ever saw here. But 3 at $33 mill would have been light, yes. Rumor I remember was he wanted $13 mill AAV.
I still do not see his $36.1 gtd. OTC has $26 mill. If it was $36 mill gtd, that is a significant boost, absolutely.
Barkley ultimately secured 2 contracts. The franchise tender from the Giants for 2023 at 10.1M in full guarantees.
And the second the Eagles contract with 26M in full guarantees for 2024-2026.
If Barkley would have accepted the Giants best and final offer per Dunleavy, he would have secured 22-23M in guarantees.
Instead, he took the risk and netted 36.1M in guarantees.
Link - ( New Window )
If Saquon Barkley was drafted second overall by the Texans and had the same career, no one would care. The Giants signed a more productive running back this off season.
Goodbye Saquon!
This offense is not a run first offense
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Dunleavy reported at the time the final offer was 3/33M with between 22M and 23M guaranteed. Garafolo then corroborated that on Twitter. Given the appearant access he has to Schoen, I strongly believe Garafolo.
There are 2 questions:
1) Did Barkley make a good or bad decision turning down that deal? The answer to that is unequivocally "good" decision. He secured the franchise tender of 10.1M and then a contract with more guaranteed money. Instead of 22-23M in guarantees, he secured 36.1M.
2) Did the Giants make a good decision by managing him off the team? That's TBD.
I never saw the $11 mill and frankly nobody on BBI has ever said that number(well, that I saw). I always read 3 at $12/12.5 and those are the only reported numbers I ever saw here. But 3 at $33 mill would have been light, yes. Rumor I remember was he wanted $13 mill AAV.
I still do not see his $36.1 gtd. OTC has $26 mill. If it was $36 mill gtd, that is a significant boost, absolutely.
Barkley ultimately secured 2 contracts. The franchise tender from the Giants for 2023 at 10.1M in full guarantees.
And the second the Eagles contract with 26M in full guarantees for 2024-2026.
If Barkley would have accepted the Giants best and final offer per Dunleavy, he would have secured 22-23M in guarantees.
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The Giants’ final three-year offer was $11 million per year with guarantees between $22 million and $23 million, multiple sources told the Post.
Instead, he took the risk and netted 36.1M in guarantees. Link - ( New Window )
hmm, ok. A different way to look at guaranteed money when including a previous year's contract. But I see it now.
He should have known how angry the Giant fanbase is now that he signed with a hated in-division rival. Signing with the Texans would not sting at all, and he could win with them also.
Now he is dead to me. ;-)
I doubt pro athletes care what a fanbase thinks of him/her
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Team Barkley read the market pretty damn well. The Giants reportedly offered 3/33M with 22M guaranteed for the 2023-2025 seasons.
Barkley ultimately secured contracts at a value of 47.85M with 36.1M guaranteed for the 2023-2026 seasons.
He took a risk playing on the tender, and at minimum he will earn an additional 14.1M because of it.
That $47 is with incentives and the base contract we have seen was 3 yrs, $12.5 mill and $26 mill gtd...not sure where you got you numbers. OTC Barkley - ( New Window )
And he's comparing three years to four. If he signed with the Giants in 2026, the 4th year, and got say $8 million that cuts the diference over four years to $6 million in guarantees. You can't compare a three-year offer from the Giants with a three-year offer from Philly PLUS the Giants tag year unless you assume Saquon doesn't play the fourth year.
I can go back and find all the quotes from Giants angry at management going back to the Maras and Sam Huff in the 1950s over his contract.
How many times did Harry Carson demand a trade due to the team losing and his contract?
LT literally signed a contract with Trump and the USFL to go the NJ Generals because he was fed up with George Young in negotiations and that forced the Giants hand.
Jesse Armstead and Ernie Accorsi. Shockey tried to beat up Jerry Reese and got traded. We all know about Gettleman's dealing with players.
Now Schoen and Saquon. Rinse and repeat.
Correct. The rest is handwringing, nothing more.
It didnt work..
Not hating on him for getting his money.. but the whole trying to maintain his " victim " image is annoying.. You making millions.. you gonna be good regardless...
I can go back and find all the quotes from Giants angry at management going back to the Maras and Sam Huff in the 1950s over his contract.
How many times did Harry Carson demand a trade due to the team losing and his contract?
LT literally signed a contract with Trump and the USFL to go the NJ Generals because he was fed up with George Young in negotiations and that forced the Giants hand.
Jesse Armstead and Ernie Accorsi. Shockey tried to beat up Jerry Reese and got traded. We all know about Gettleman's dealing with players.
Now Schoen and Saquon. Rinse and repeat.
how many strahan training camp dramas too? jpp, obj, etc. the list always goes on.
the difference here is that people are sort of white knighting Schoen when we dont know how this one turns out yet. he did at least partially misread the market. doesn't mean he was wrong to let barkley walk but it also certainly doesnt mean he was right to pay $10m last year while passing on a 2nd year for just 12m more gtd.
christian's posts in this thread are all exactly right. sincere thank you to christian for saving me the time of having to make those posts. the numbers are inarguably clear that barkley made the right decision for himself.
They turned out to be completely correct. Barkely had a demonstrably less productive season, got hurt again, is a year older with an additional 288 touches on his belt. And he earned a bigger contract.
I wouldn't have believed it at the time, but he was completely right. He could have walked away from the table with 22M, instead he bet 12M on the next hand, and won a 26M pot.
They turned out to be completely correct. Barkely had a demonstrably less productive season, got hurt again, is a year older with an additional 288 touches on his belt. And he earned a bigger contract.
I wouldn't have believed it at the time, but he was completely right. He could have walked away from the table with 22M, instead he bet 12M on the next hand, and won a 26M pot.
This comparison is since 2019 (Singletary's first year in the league).
Barkley - 3/$37.75M, $26M guaranteed
Singletary - 3/$16.5M, $9.5M guaranteed
Schoen did good business here, despite Mara protesting that Barkley was our "most popular player" 🤮.
i think most people are analyzing it from the perspective of what it says about the giants current leadership's strategy and their vision of the team going forward.
is it really mind blowing that giants fans would have interest in that? or "waste breathe" analyzing that? isnt the entirety of BBI wasted breathe talking about the giants? i guess except NFTs which are wasted breathe on other subjects.
This. Barkley has to be one of the 'losingest' (I know that's not a word) players in Giants' history.
Who cares that he's gone?
Next order of business is adding a stud QB, and the Giants will be in the championship conversation.
Raw stats don't tell this story.
Raw stats don't tell this story.
True. The stars don't capture Barkley's poor pass protection and boneheaded errors.
Next order of business is adding a stud QB, and the Giants will be in the championship conversation.
my only question is why not do both? the only pass catchers they added were in the draft, so that wasnt a resource re-allocation and it wasn't a fiscally challenging thing to bring back barkley, especially if they'd made an offer along the lines of last year's rumored deals prior to the tag deadline, with the threat of the tag still out there.
clearly at least 1 very smart GM saw barkley's value roughly 3x singletary's and 2x swifts. proof will be on the pudding but im not yet all that comfortable betting on schoen > roseman.
He is a good player but he is not some great player that the Giants lost..
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
[quote] In comment 16557498 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Raw stats don't tell this story.
True. The stars don't capture Barkley's poor pass protection and boneheaded errors. [/quote
Barkley was rated by pff as the top, or one of the top, pass blocking rbs two years in a row.
Link - ( New Window )
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Raw stats don't tell this story.
True. The stars don't capture Barkley's poor pass protection and boneheaded errors.
Statistically Barkley was one of the best and most used pass protecting rbs in football the last 2 years. you may have missed that turn around when you went on strike during the 2022 season.
1. SAQUON BARKLEY, NEW YORK GIANTS
PFF pass-blocking grade: 75.5
Pass-blocking snaps: 83
Pressures allowed: 6
2022 NFL season's best pass-blocking running backs: Saquon Barkley, Tony Pollard and more - ( New Window )
durability isn't just games played, it's workload. if they dont develop a few options behind 5'9 207 devin singletary im not sure how well the durability is going to hold up. he's also had a history of issues with fumbles.
there are reasons why he's now been on 3 teams in 3 years.
Interestingly, Buffalo has been moving towards a more run based offense the past couple years. I expect this year they run the RB's even more. Seems Beane saw the downside to trying to navigate the playoffs when you are getting beat up on the lines.
I like the RBBC but TBD if the Giants have the personnel and scheme in place. They also want to be a pass heavy offense. I see significant issues if the OL doesn't pan out as hoped.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
Yawn.. Barkley fans will see what they want but Giants fans, fans of the team will see a back who had more hype than production lately and a long list of injuries..
Personally, I like the approach. I want the passing game to be the focus and strength of the offense. I want the Giants to put all of the responsibility on Jones.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
It's hard to argue against this.
Why are we still talking about this? Are we as thin-skinned as Barkley?
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was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
Yawn.. Barkley fans will see what they want but Giants fans, fans of the team will see a back who had more hype than production lately and a long list of injuries..
What about people like me (I’m not the only one) who think Barkley is a really good player AND that it made sense not to sign him long term?
I know it’s a strange concept but people can actually be a fan of the player and acknowledge that the financials don’t make sense for us anymore. Crazy, right?
Why are we still talking about this? Are we as thin-skinned as Barkley?
I suppose it's better than the usual Lombardi thread Sean starts..
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This story never ends because of the imbecilic way that Schoen handled this entire episode. First, DJ should have been tagged last year and SB should have been either let go or signed to the two year deal they originally offered him in 2022. Second, Schoen should have traded Barkley at the 2023 trade deadline and gotten some draft compensation while possibly directing Saquon to an AFC destination so as to not materially affect our franchise in the future.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
It's hard to argue against this.
John Mara probably had his hand in this. Probably refusing the trade Barkley.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
This is a fabulous observation. I have a generally positive view of Schoen, but this charade in addition to the moaning over the previous negotiation being too hard, was an embarrassing watch.
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you posted Saquon's year-by-year productivity here without identifying him, many would be surprised.
This comparison is since 2019 (Singletary's first year in the league).
Barkley - 3/$37.75M, $26M guaranteed
Singletary - 3/$16.5M, $9.5M guaranteed
Schoen did good business here, despite Mara protesting that Barkley was our "most popular player" 🤮.
In 2022, the year of the Greatest Playoff Victory Ever (TM), Barkley was second in the league in rushing and scored 10 td's. Jones put up his typically blah passing stats. Last season, with no credible passing threats, Barkley gained 960 rushing yards and another 10 td's running and receiving. From this, it was concluded that the o-line was terrible due to pass blocking and Jones was the essential player who merited the big contract. Ok, I guess, but it wasn't the only way to go or the only conclusion that could be drawn.
I think a lot of the comments on Barkley are the result of his admittedly, too high draft choice (a Gettleman specialty) where he was expected to be "touched by the hand of God", the year he missed due to the knee injury, the current fad of not paying rb's, and ire that he has not personally saved the franchise from its serial poor decisions.
We will see if this is "good business." I have my doubts.
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In comment 16557373 dslayton86 said:
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was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
Yawn.. Barkley fans will see what they want but Giants fans, fans of the team will see a back who had more hype than production lately and a long list of injuries..
What about people like me (I’m not the only one) who think Barkley is a really good player AND that it made sense not to sign him long term?
I know it’s a strange concept but people can actually be a fan of the player and acknowledge that the financials don’t make sense for us anymore. Crazy, right?
This is where I am too. It was the right thing to do, but he is a really good player who will do well in Philly. Why does everything suck, and why does everything need to be black and white.
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was all class in that interview. I am assuming a bunch of fans will watch one clip and formulate their opinions on that one clip.
It was the BEST move for both parties. I've had enough of Giants fans whining and complaining about Saquon on his way out, you just come across as absolute losers.
And if you want to mention the offers the Giants gave him last year, they certainly were not what he ended up getting from the Eagles, so he made the RIGHT move not to sign for less money with us.
Saquon in his time here was the epitome of what being a New York Giant is and should be (the anti-Odell). I choose to look back at that time with a positive outlook and not be a crying baby because of how it ended.
Yawn.. Barkley fans will see what they want but Giants fans, fans of the team will see a back who had more hype than production lately and a long list of injuries..
Agreed completely, not sure anywhere in my post where I addressed future play besides "it was the BEST move for both parties", due to all the concerns we know and mainly: why he wasn't worth us paying top dollar for.
It didnt work..
Not hating on him for getting his money.. but the whole trying to maintain his " victim " image is annoying.. You making millions.. you gonna be good regardless...
Exactly. All that Giant for life BS was just a ploy for leverage. I don't blame him for wanting to get the biggest deal possible and I won't miss him now that he is gone. Outside of his rookie year, he was often injured and not the same player we drafted, certainly not worth the #2 pick in the draft.
Given the investment in the quarterback and pass catchers over the last 3 offseasons, this all makes makes sense.
Hopefully the Giants are in the 400-425 rush attempts range, and generate that 5700-6000 yards from scrimmage they'll need to be a top 3rd offense more through the air.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
Is your argument that basically telling Barkley 'get lost' would have had zero drama? I don't think Schoen letting Barkley test the market was a bad decision, or even close to the other two bad decisions made previously. That is, I don't disagree about the mistakes made on not trading Barkley or tagging Jones. Maybe one day we'll get the real story on why those decisions were made.
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This story never ends because of the imbecilic way that Schoen handled this entire episode. First, DJ should have been tagged last year and SB should have been either let go or signed to the two year deal they originally offered him in 2022. Second, Schoen should have traded Barkley at the 2023 trade deadline and gotten some draft compensation while possibly directing Saquon to an AFC destination so as to not materially affect our franchise in the future.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
Is your argument that basically telling Barkley 'get lost' would have had zero drama? I don't think Schoen letting Barkley test the market was a bad decision, or even close to the other two bad decisions made previously. That is, I don't disagree about the mistakes made on not trading Barkley or tagging Jones. Maybe one day we'll get the real story on why those decisions were made.
I think it's pretty clear that there is 0% chance Mara would allow Schoen to trade "our most popular player" in the middle of the season last year. So just think Schoen should get 0 blame for not making a move.
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This story never ends because of the imbecilic way that Schoen handled this entire episode. First, DJ should have been tagged last year and SB should have been either let go or signed to the two year deal they originally offered him in 2022. Second, Schoen should have traded Barkley at the 2023 trade deadline and gotten some draft compensation while possibly directing Saquon to an AFC destination so as to not materially affect our franchise in the future.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
Is your argument that basically telling Barkley 'get lost' would have had zero drama? I don't think Schoen letting Barkley test the market was a bad decision, or even close to the other two bad decisions made previously. That is, I don't disagree about the mistakes made on not trading Barkley or tagging Jones. Maybe one day we'll get the real story on why those decisions were made.
I simply would have treated this man with respect from the beginning. He deserved that from this organization. Blaming him for being drafted second and being referred to as the man touched by the hand of God is ridiculous. He is a very talented player who did his best here to elevate the team. In the end, they didn't value him. So if they didn't want him this year, then either trade him at the 2023 deadline, tag him and trade him to get some value, or let him go. Nickel and diming him last year at the precise moment that they were galactically overpaying DJ was dumb enough. Not learning from this, and the obvious detrimental impact this had on the psychology of the locker room last year, and now trying to act like they really like his popularity but just don't value him, makes the Giants front office look completely out of touch with reality.
But now that they have transmorphed into a pass first offense so it doesn't matter anyway. DJ will just need to pick up the slack and completely carry the offensive load in 2024. Should be a thrill a minute!
Who here would be upset at Schoen for not offering him 3/$36mm with $25mm guaranteed?
I venture to say not one poster on BBI would have clamoring for that signing this offseason.
Well, unless Mara posts here of course.
Who here would be upset at Schoen for not offering him 3/$36mm with $25mm guaranteed?
I venture to say not one poster on BBI would have clamoring for that signing this offseason.
Well, unless Mara posts here of course.
Great point.
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In comment 16557506 The Mike said:
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This story never ends because of the imbecilic way that Schoen handled this entire episode. First, DJ should have been tagged last year and SB should have been either let go or signed to the two year deal they originally offered him in 2022. Second, Schoen should have traded Barkley at the 2023 trade deadline and gotten some draft compensation while possibly directing Saquon to an AFC destination so as to not materially affect our franchise in the future.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
Is your argument that basically telling Barkley 'get lost' would have had zero drama? I don't think Schoen letting Barkley test the market was a bad decision, or even close to the other two bad decisions made previously. That is, I don't disagree about the mistakes made on not trading Barkley or tagging Jones. Maybe one day we'll get the real story on why those decisions were made.
I simply would have treated this man with respect from the beginning. He deserved that from this organization. Blaming him for being drafted second and being referred to as the man touched by the hand of God is ridiculous. He is a very talented player who did his best here to elevate the team. In the end, they didn't value him. So if they didn't want him this year, then either trade him at the 2023 deadline, tag him and trade him to get some value, or let him go. Nickel and diming him last year at the precise moment that they were galactically overpaying DJ was dumb enough. Not learning from this, and the obvious detrimental impact this had on the psychology of the locker room last year, and now trying to act like they really like his popularity but just don't value him, makes the Giants front office look completely out of touch with reality.
But now that they have transmorphed into a pass first offense so it doesn't matter anyway. DJ will just need to pick up the slack and completely carry the offensive load in 2024. Should be a thrill a minute!
He doesn't 'deserve' anything. Maybe they were interested in him but at a much lower price than he wanted. I'm not blaming Barkley for being drafted where he was. But when you talk about the front office being out of touch with reality, drafting him at #2 and not listening to any trade offers is far worse than letting him test the market and come back with numbers.
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what the Texans and/or other teams offered Barkley. I have a feeling those numbers were close to what he got, and perhaps he could have waited a little and drove his price north a bit.
He should have known how angry the Giant fanbase is now that he signed with a hated in-division rival. Signing with the Texans would not sting at all, and he could win with them also.
Now he is dead to me. ;-)
I doubt pro athletes care what a fanbase thinks of him/her
Maybe they shouldn't care, but it's extremely clear that Barkley absolutely cares what the Giants fanbase thinks of him. He wanted to go get his money, sign with his old team's archrival, and still remain beloved by the original fans. Barkley got the contract he was seeking, so you'd think he'd be happy, but somehow he remains concerned with how he's viewed among Giants fans and he seems surprised that he's not being regarded kindly right now.
It's kind of hilarious, really. "Why don't they still love me after I signed with their bitterest rival??"
A) Sign Barkley and keep the OL line pretty much the same.
B) Don't resign Barkley and have the money to sign some good
vet OL men to protect the QB and help the run game with a
little lesser of a running back.
Schoen and Daboll chose B - and I really don't blame him.
I'm genuinely curious how one is a "huge saquon barkley fan" as a Giants fan.
He's been the face of a franchise that has been one of the 2 or 3 worst in the entire sport the 5 years he was here.
They wasted the #2 pick on him. No other way around it he was an absolutely atrocious pick.
He had 2 good years for the Giants. He was either hurt or at best mediocre in the other 3.
It's frightening that people watched this team the last 5 years and still wanted to bring Barkley back or still love him. I've never seen a player more overrated than him in my life, in any sport.
Who here would be upset at Schoen for not offering him 3/$36mm with $25mm guaranteed?
I venture to say not one poster on BBI would have clamoring for that signing this offseason.
Well, unless Mara posts here of course.
Well said. I have made the same point using Jones.
If we needed a QB, and weren't in the best draft position to draft one, would anyone be clamoring for Daniel Jones if he was a FA?
I never get an answer. Which isn't a surprise because the answer is a resounding NFW.
And then, having not done either of these blindingly obvious things, and given that Schoen had no interest in signing SB this year anyway, Schoen should have either tagged Barkley again with the idea of trading him under the tag, or simply let Saquon walk with ZERO drama. This slow drip of syrupy inauthenticity on behalf of fan sentimentality is among the most cringeworthy things I have ever observed in an NFL front office.
So this "story that never ends" is entirely the fault of the management of this team and an indication that they are clueless on how to manage the most simple and basic of tasks.
missed this earlier just want to say i agree with those that called out this excellent post.
1 further point id add, the slow drip of syrupy stupidity resulted in nyg not having control over sending barkley wherever they wanted via trade either now or prior, and ended up with Howie Roseman eating the pancakes. That farther drips this whole saga out and if it directly improves a rival its all the more mismanaged. especially now knowing there were other teams bidding on barkley and presumably would have been fine taking him on the tag even if it were for no more than a vanity pick.
He got paid. He's the biggest fucking pussy on the planet. Never healthy and a now a bitchy whiner. They could have tagged him. Lost all respect for him.
Whiny bitch that can't move on. Like some here.
2) If that really was for Mara's sake, how freaking weak is he already. Get over it.
3) From Barkley's perspective, why wouldn't he leave for the greatest offer? The Giants, as a team and organization don't offer him anywhere near the best chance to win. So go out and get paid. And he did, with a much better chance to win.
4) I admit, I loved the pick. I also think he is still super talented and capable of great seasons. He will probably shine behind that OL. But, it was still the correct decision to not re-sign him.
5) As The Mike said, not re-signing him was the culmination of several mis-steps by the organization the last couple of years with Barkley.
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but it looks like it came down to:
A) Sign Barkley and keep the OL line pretty much the same.
B) Don't resign Barkley and have the money to sign some good
vet OL men to protect the QB and help the run game with a
little lesser of a running back.
Schoen and Daboll chose B - and I really don't blame him.
I'm genuinely curious how one is a "huge saquon barkley fan" as a Giants fan.
He's been the face of a franchise that has been one of the 2 or 3 worst in the entire sport the 5 years he was here.
They wasted the #2 pick on him. No other way around it he was an absolutely atrocious pick.
He had 2 good years for the Giants. He was either hurt or at best mediocre in the other 3.
It's frightening that people watched this team the last 5 years and still wanted to bring Barkley back or still love him. I've never seen a player more overrated than him in my life, in any sport.
It's not just that they wasted the pick, it's that they didn't even entertain offers to trade down. Instead of building draft capital on what a lousy roster, DG did his man love thing.
I think Schoen was playing the game for ownerships sake but never really wanted him back or they were hoping the number was $8-$9 mil a season and they would have resigned him. It’s clear the Giants weren’t going to go back to the original offers from a year ago.
If Barkley has a great year it’s still not a bad move for the Giants. The only way it’s a bad move for the Giants is if Philly wins the Super Bowl. Short of that it’s just a player that went to another team. Barkleys track record says that he will have 1 good year out of the next 3. I’d rather have Singletary and the extra cash, I don’t think the stats of the 2 players will be that different.
McKinney was a more significant loss to the Giants than Barkley was.
He was butthurt about how the negotiations went the last 18 months. And hasn’t bled blue since then. And WANTED out, especially to go to the Eagles.
As. Person, one of the nicest athletes I’ve ever met.
As a Giants fan, FUCK SNAQUON!!!!!!!
SbB interview - ( New Window )
That’s the season he finished with 1,300 on the ground and ten TDs?
It wasn't that Schoen "didn't want Barkley back" (at all), he just couldn't bring him back at Barkley's price.
It wasn't personal. It was a business decision, IMO the right one, and I'm glad Schoen made it.
As for Barkley, if he can stay on the field (a big IF), he's certainly set up for more success in Philly's offense.
Barkley is a great guy who's head and heart are in the right place. It's frankly a shame his best years were ultimately wasted with the Giants. I wish him success -- except when he's playing against the Giants.