Two observations from Hard Knocks - Episode 4:
1) Seeing the Schoen discussions with Mara about the possible trade up with New England for the 3rd pick, it is natural for Mara to link this trade discussion to the Accorsi move for Eli Manning back in 2004. The discussion in the episode is about conviction but not specifically about compensation. As everybody remembers, the Giants traded the draft rights to Rivers (4th overall) along with 2004 5th round pick and 2005 1st and 5th round picks for the draft rights to Manning (1st overall). This was the compensation to move up a total of 3 spots in the 2004 draft - the Giants were looking to move up the same # of spots (3 spots) in the 2024 draft for a QB, from 6th overall to the 3rd overall pick. We did not see all the discussions between Schoen and Mara but I wonder if Mara used the draft compensation from the 2004 trade as the ceiling on what he was comfortable allowing Schoen to offer to move up from 6 to 3 in this draft. I mention this for several reasons: In the episode, Mara states that he was having heart palpatations thinking about the move up which provides some context to how Schoen has to approach a negotiation. Additionally, the way Schoen discussed the possible trade up with Elliot Wolf of New England is not how you would approach a negotiation. Schoen was not trying to keep an open trade dialogue going - it was almost like he was resigned to the fact knowing that there was no way for a trade to happen. After all, the reports have been that the Giants were willing to move 6th overall, a 2025 1st and probably a 2nd/3rd in 2024/2025. Do you really think that the addition of a 4th pick in the day 2 range should be a deal breaker when talking about acquiring a franchise QB? Why not offer that? We did not hear that the trade required the 2026 1st too. I just wonder if Mara placed a ceiling on what Schoen could offer to move up based on the 2004 package and Schoen "negotiated" the trade with that limitation.
2) When Schoen and Daboll walked ownership through all the scenarios, there is a scenario that could have played out that Schoen and Daboll were not prepared for. If Harrison and Nabors went 4th and 5th in the draft, it seems that Schoen would have moved down to 9th overall in a trade with Chicago. The thought process articulated by Schoen is that the Giants would receive the extra draft compensation and be able to take either Odunze or Bowers at 9. However, let's say Chicago selects Odunze at 6 - the reason the Bears move up is because both Harrison and Nabors are gone and clearly, they wanted a receiver since they ultimately selected Odunze at 9. Then, let's say that a team like the Rams had traded up to 8 with Atlanta so that they could select Bowers (which was a rumor going around on draft day), who would the Giants have selected at 9 in that scenario? The Giants clearly did not have proper intel on what Atlanta was going to do since Schoen thought that Atlanta was selecting Turner or Latu. Now, Atlanta surprised everyone by taking Penix but still, Schoen is briefing ownership on all the scenarios and who the team would select at 9 and that was a scenario that Schoen had not anticipated. Just interesting to wonder who the Giants would have selected at 9 if that scenario had played out and that it was a scenario that Schoen had not anticipated when briefing ownership.
Now....could they have taken Odense....possibly
No chance a trade back to 9 happens without a contingency for the receivers being gone; a 34 minute episode and made for TV visual aid can't cover everything.
So far as Mara allowing a trade, it seems pretty clear Schoen doesn't need permission from Mara (though like any smart executive he'd carefully consider his bosses input), and Schoen wasn't prepared to pay an Eli haul to move up anyway.
The Chargers were also feeling pressure from Manning claiming he would not play for them if drafted, which had to help nudge them towards reaching a deal with the Giants.
The Pats were under no such pressure, and badly wanted a QB.
John should have been pushing to get up to draft a QB. I know that he is paying Jones a ton but the franchise is worth $6.8B.
I wish they and the Tisch family would sell the team. Are the Mara’s the last owner in the NFL who’s only business is the football team?
Link - ( New Window )
No chance a trade back to 9 happens without a contingency for the receivers being gone; a 34 minute episode and made for TV visual aid can't cover everything.
So far as Mara allowing a trade, it seems pretty clear Schoen doesn't need permission from Mara (though like any smart executive he'd carefully consider his bosses input), and Schoen wasn't prepared to pay an Eli haul to move up anyway.
I agree with this except I think it is likely Schoen would have moved up if the cost was the same as Eli. I think NE was looking for a lot more. It would have been hilarious if we drafted JJ and then traded for Maye.
Here's the break you so desperately desire.
As for Chicago, Schoen basically had a tentative deal in place with all the teams. Over analyzing each scenario is pointless. Chicago may have wanted a player picked ahead of them, not just Odunze.
The Giants would have moved up for the top 3 QBs, they may have moved up for Nabers or Harrison if they felt the need. Odunze was the next option followed by Bowers.
No defensive players were discussed.
Remember this is just clips of reality. I’m sure they liked different players at different points. The good news is that they thought Nabers was either the 1st or 2nd best non QB.