Kay Adams bringing up the Vikings playoff win. Let's see if people swoop into the thread and shit all over her now. lol
In all seriousness, I really like Schoen and Daboll, and I hope they learned from some tough lessons last year. Hopefully this team starts showing the fruits of his (and Daboll's) labors.
Kay Adams bringing up the Vikings playoff win. Let's see if people swoop into the thread and shit all over her now. lol
In all seriousness, I really like Schoen and Daboll, and I hope they learned from some tough lessons last year. Hopefully this team starts showing the fruits of his (and Daboll's) labors.
Cringiest part of the interview. Never has more been made from one game perhaps Giants history.
You can acknowledge it was fun to watch, but the next game was closer to the heart of the truth, and we're continuing to pay for it. All can be true and are.
Cringiest part of the interview. Never has more been made from one game perhaps Giants history.
It's the complete opposite of the 1993 Wildcard win against Minnesota. Right or wrong, that win meant nothing in the eyes of Young. The only thing anyone remembers is the curb stomping SF put on them the next week.
4 of first 6 last year were on the national stage and not a reflection of who he (Jones) is.
Do we watch the same player/games? Jones is 1-10 or something like that on national TV. His overall record is 22-37. This is why ppl don't think he'll be successful, not because of 4 games last year
You can acknowledge it was fun to watch, but the next game was closer to the heart of the truth, and we're continuing to pay for it. All can be true and are.
This is what drives me nuts about that playoff "run".
How did they seem to put so much value on that win against a team with a terrible defense, but largely ignore what should've been learned the following week?
You can acknowledge it was fun to watch, but the next game was closer to the heart of the truth, and we're continuing to pay for it. All can be true and are.
This is what drives me nuts about that playoff "run".
How did they seem to put so much value on that win against a team with a terrible defense, but largely ignore what should've been learned the following week?
What drives me nuts is that people focus on just the QB when the roster we had could not compete with the Eagles or the Cowboys. It's really that simple. Both of their Lines ran roughshod over the Giants. People like me view from that angle. The QB is just part of the equation, and he showed in 2022 and prior years that he can be successful even with a less than average OL and skill position group. I'd like to see him behind at least an average OL with a WR better than Ritchie James as his top guy. If you go back to a game like the one where he got hurt just before the half ended and they were driving against the Cowboys in 2021. Saquon has a freak injury to his ankle, but he actually had a legit WR threat in Kadarius Toney. Toney has a breakout game with Jones throwing to him until he gets hurt trying to take on a LB to get in the EZ to tie the game. He's not a top level QB but he is a HELL of a lot better than people give him credit for. The injury history is a different story, but he is not some horrible QB.
I'm sure the usual suspects will swoop in and shit all over this post but that's what it is. Schoen and Daboll clearly see it in that light as well. Doesn't mean they won't upgrade if and when they can but acting like they don't know what they see or are no better than fans is absurd. IMV.
Five years of numbers say Jones is indeed a horrible QB. He's statistically similar to Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky; those guys are each on their fourth team and making a lot less money.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
Five years of numbers say Jones is indeed a horrible QB. He's statistically similar to Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky; those guys are each on their fourth team and making a lot less money.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
I wish you would just make up your mind about how you really feel about Daniel Jones… and no holding back!!! (:-)
Five years of numbers say Jones is indeed a horrible QB. He's statistically similar to Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky; those guys are each on their fourth team and making a lot less money.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
At which point Jones would have killed off Shurmur, Garrett, Judge, Gettleman, Daboll and Schoen.
Watch Daboll go off and be a strong HC elsewhere too.
Five years of numbers say Jones is indeed a horrible QB. He's statistically similar to Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky; those guys are each on their fourth team and making a lot less money.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
I see it differently, if the season goes sideways and they keep running Jones out there, heads will deserve to roll. If they sit him quickly, even for Lock or DeVito they'll stick around.
Five years of numbers say Jones is indeed a horrible QB. He's statistically similar to Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky; those guys are each on their fourth team and making a lot less money.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
At which point Jones would have killed off Shurmur, Garrett, Judge, Gettleman, Daboll and Schoen.
Watch Daboll go off and be a strong HC elsewhere too.
What a bodycount for DJ! The greatest patient zero in NFL history!
If Mara scapegoats Daboll for his own idiotic love fest for DJ then it's clearly "Pete Rozelle" intervention time. Schoen very well might be a big part of the problem, but Daboll is clearly not.
Five years of numbers say Jones is indeed a horrible QB. He's statistically similar to Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky; those guys are each on their fourth team and making a lot less money.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
At which point Jones would have killed off Shurmur, Garrett, Judge, Gettleman, Daboll and Schoen.
Watch Daboll go off and be a strong HC elsewhere too.
What a bodycount for DJ! The greatest patient zero in NFL history!
If Mara scapegoats Daboll for his own idiotic love fest for DJ then it's clearly "Pete Rozelle" intervention time. Schoen very well might be a big part of the problem, but Daboll is clearly not.
If Mara is so in love with DJ then why did he ok a trade to replace him?
Five years of numbers say Jones is indeed a horrible QB. He's statistically similar to Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky; those guys are each on their fourth team and making a lot less money.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
I wish you would just make up your mind about how you really feel about Daniel Jones… and no holding back!!! (:-)
I don't care about Jones anymore. We know what he is.
My focus is on Mara, Schoen, and Daboll. Tough to have faith in any of them, as I see it.
Five years of numbers say Jones is indeed a horrible QB. He's statistically similar to Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky; those guys are each on their fourth team and making a lot less money.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
At which point Jones would have killed off Shurmur, Garrett, Judge, Gettleman, Daboll and Schoen.
Watch Daboll go off and be a strong HC elsewhere too.
I wouldn't blame Jones. These guys choose to pay him and not even try to challenge him at any point as the starter. That's on them - Daboll included.
on both JS/BD. I think JS will have the potential longer leash with the FO dynamics. Not much JS can do at this point but maybe a few more moves. Its a huge year for BD.
You can acknowledge it was fun to watch, but the next game was closer to the heart of the truth, and we're continuing to pay for it. All can be true and are.
True... and I cried after that playoff win, but I'd argue that the extra wins last year set the franchise back further than the playoff win. If we were picking top 3 in this draft we would have a new franchise QB.
I don't think Schoen is that clueless about the impact of the QB... I think there are not easy answers unless you were picking at the top of the draft...
RE: RE: RE: That playoff win set the franchise back years
You can acknowledge it was fun to watch, but the next game was closer to the heart of the truth, and we're continuing to pay for it. All can be true and are.
This is what drives me nuts about that playoff "run".
How did they seem to put so much value on that win against a team with a terrible defense, but largely ignore what should've been learned the following week?
What drives me nuts is that people focus on just the QB when the roster we had could not compete with the Eagles or the Cowboys. It's really that simple. Both of their Lines ran roughshod over the Giants. People like me view from that angle. The QB is just part of the equation, and he showed in 2022 and prior years that he can be successful even with a less than average OL and skill position group. I'd like to see him behind at least an average OL with a WR better than Ritchie James as his top guy. If you go back to a game like the one where he got hurt just before the half ended and they were driving against the Cowboys in 2021. Saquon has a freak injury to his ankle, but he actually had a legit WR threat in Kadarius Toney. Toney has a breakout game with Jones throwing to him until he gets hurt trying to take on a LB to get in the EZ to tie the game. He's not a top level QB but he is a HELL of a lot better than people give him credit for. The injury history is a different story, but he is not some horrible QB.
I'm sure the usual suspects will swoop in and shit all over this post but that's what it is. Schoen and Daboll clearly see it in that light as well. Doesn't mean they won't upgrade if and when they can but acting like they don't know what they see or are no better than fans is absurd. IMV.
correctly said. You're a reasonable fan. Football is the utimate team game.
Piggybacking off Duggan's comments from today's session:
• There was more action in this practice because they expanded beyond the red zone for the first time. And now, I wade gently into Daniel Jones criticism...
• It looked like Jones had salvaged a rough day with a strong two-minute drive, highlighted by a bomb to Malik Nabers and a strike to Jalin Hyatt on a back-shoulder throw. But then the offense got another drive and it ended with Jones forcing a pass to Nabers in the end zone that was undercut by a leaping Dane Belton for an interception. Classic DJ "game mismanagement". Reminiscent of the 2023 Seattle game.
This was the first practice Jones really aired it out and, aside from the deep shot to Nabers, his accuracy was poor. He air-mailed a wide-open Wan'Dale Robinson, under-threw Nabers on a slot fade (good coverage by Deonte Banks) and threw behind Daniel Bellinger on a crossing route. Hyatt failed to making a leaping catch on a deep crossing route. Inspires zero confidence for himself or his teammates with his indecisive and inconsistent vertical passing game.
The throw that stood out the most for the wrong reason was a deep pass across the field to Nabers. Jones rolled right and threw back to the left side to Nabers, who had gotten open against Cor'Dale Flott. The throw was behind Nabers, allowing Flott to contest the pass. Nabers still could have made the catch, but it should have been an easy TD if Jones threw the ball harder/leads Nabers more. Classic DJ throwing just poorly enough to get his receivers injured or create a drop that leads to a potential interception. See Evan Engram.
And now the Jones disclaimer: He's the starting QB. His play is going to be analyzed. Some days he will be good, other days he will be bad. The coverage will be positive on the good days and critical on the bad days. Precisely the definition of Quarterback Hell. Quarterbacks like DJ are jettisoned before their option year. Not given a second contract and seven years to prove what was self-evident prior to the 2019 draft.
HA! Joe has Hard Knocks PTSD and keeps looking around for active cameras... Giants had editorial INPUT, not control, did not "redline" anything except for "such as" medical info, draft board, maybe some comments that were too personal.
Joe was surprised that some things were captured and put on the show. They did not know of the angle, storyline, and the goals for the show, just that they were capturing footage.
That said, obviously some scenes were staged, but I assume the honest conversation didn't fit the format (too rambling, not focused, other irrelevant detail that couldn't be effectively edited out) so they re-enacted certain scenes.
HA! Joe has Hard Knocks PTSD and keeps looking around for active cameras... Giants had editorial INPUT, not control, did not "redline" anything except for "such as" medical info, draft board, maybe some comments that were too personal.
Joe was surprised that some things were captured and put on the show. They did not know of the angle, storyline, and the goals for the show, just that they were capturing footage.
That said, obviously some scenes were staged, but I assume the honest conversation didn't fit the format (too rambling, not focused, other irrelevant detail that couldn't be effectively edited out) so they re-enacted certain scenes.
I'm glad you wrote this because a lot of this was my initial reaction. NYG had editorial input, but not final say.
And Schoen's recounting of his conversations seems genuine. Maybe there was less staged than we think. It sure sounded like, for example, that the call with Wolf was anything but staged.
I'm coming around to your side in thinking Schoen needed to be more assertive with Wolf. As soon as Wolf says "unless...", make an aggressive offer on the spot.
I was wondering if his comment right off the bat of "when are you coming to camp?" was related to them cancelling last year.
very personable, reasonable-sounding guy.
But whether or not I really like this guy comes down to one thing: Does his team play winning football?
In all seriousness, I really like Schoen and Daboll, and I hope they learned from some tough lessons last year. Hopefully this team starts showing the fruits of his (and Daboll's) labors.
In all seriousness, I really like Schoen and Daboll, and I hope they learned from some tough lessons last year. Hopefully this team starts showing the fruits of his (and Daboll's) labors.
Cringiest part of the interview. Never has more been made from one game perhaps Giants history.
very personable, reasonable-sounding guy.
But whether or not I really like this guy comes down to one thing: Does his team play winning football?
It's the complete opposite of the 1993 Wildcard win against Minnesota. Right or wrong, that win meant nothing in the eyes of Young. The only thing anyone remembers is the curb stomping SF put on them the next week.
Do we watch the same player/games? Jones is 1-10 or something like that on national TV. His overall record is 22-37. This is why ppl don't think he'll be successful, not because of 4 games last year
Jones didn't suck because the games were on TV. He sucked because he sucks and lineman Schoen drafted sucked.
And of course we get the obligatorily "my job is so stressful" act again.
This is what drives me nuts about that playoff "run".
How did they seem to put so much value on that win against a team with a terrible defense, but largely ignore what should've been learned the following week?
It's like this never happened.
Quote:
You can acknowledge it was fun to watch, but the next game was closer to the heart of the truth, and we're continuing to pay for it. All can be true and are.
This is what drives me nuts about that playoff "run".
How did they seem to put so much value on that win against a team with a terrible defense, but largely ignore what should've been learned the following week?
What drives me nuts is that people focus on just the QB when the roster we had could not compete with the Eagles or the Cowboys. It's really that simple. Both of their Lines ran roughshod over the Giants. People like me view from that angle. The QB is just part of the equation, and he showed in 2022 and prior years that he can be successful even with a less than average OL and skill position group. I'd like to see him behind at least an average OL with a WR better than Ritchie James as his top guy. If you go back to a game like the one where he got hurt just before the half ended and they were driving against the Cowboys in 2021. Saquon has a freak injury to his ankle, but he actually had a legit WR threat in Kadarius Toney. Toney has a breakout game with Jones throwing to him until he gets hurt trying to take on a LB to get in the EZ to tie the game. He's not a top level QB but he is a HELL of a lot better than people give him credit for. The injury history is a different story, but he is not some horrible QB.
I'm sure the usual suspects will swoop in and shit all over this post but that's what it is. Schoen and Daboll clearly see it in that light as well. Doesn't mean they won't upgrade if and when they can but acting like they don't know what they see or are no better than fans is absurd. IMV.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
I wish you would just make up your mind about how you really feel about Daniel Jones… and no holding back!!! (:-)
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
At which point Jones would have killed off Shurmur, Garrett, Judge, Gettleman, Daboll and Schoen.
Watch Daboll go off and be a strong HC elsewhere too.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
I see it differently, if the season goes sideways and they keep running Jones out there, heads will deserve to roll. If they sit him quickly, even for Lock or DeVito they'll stick around.
Quote:
Five years of numbers say Jones is indeed a horrible QB. He's statistically similar to Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky; those guys are each on their fourth team and making a lot less money.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
At which point Jones would have killed off Shurmur, Garrett, Judge, Gettleman, Daboll and Schoen.
Watch Daboll go off and be a strong HC elsewhere too.
What a bodycount for DJ! The greatest patient zero in NFL history!
If Mara scapegoats Daboll for his own idiotic love fest for DJ then it's clearly "Pete Rozelle" intervention time. Schoen very well might be a big part of the problem, but Daboll is clearly not.
Quote:
In comment 16560346 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Five years of numbers say Jones is indeed a horrible QB. He's statistically similar to Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky; those guys are each on their fourth team and making a lot less money.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
At which point Jones would have killed off Shurmur, Garrett, Judge, Gettleman, Daboll and Schoen.
Watch Daboll go off and be a strong HC elsewhere too.
What a bodycount for DJ! The greatest patient zero in NFL history!
If Mara scapegoats Daboll for his own idiotic love fest for DJ then it's clearly "Pete Rozelle" intervention time. Schoen very well might be a big part of the problem, but Daboll is clearly not.
If Mara is so in love with DJ then why did he ok a trade to replace him?
Kinda of a contradiction
Quote:
Five years of numbers say Jones is indeed a horrible QB. He's statistically similar to Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky; those guys are each on their fourth team and making a lot less money.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
I wish you would just make up your mind about how you really feel about Daniel Jones… and no holding back!!! (:-)
I don't care about Jones anymore. We know what he is.
My focus is on Mara, Schoen, and Daboll. Tough to have faith in any of them, as I see it.
Quote:
Five years of numbers say Jones is indeed a horrible QB. He's statistically similar to Sam Darnold and Mitch Trubisky; those guys are each on their fourth team and making a lot less money.
One thing to keep in mind is if the season goes sideways there will be incentive for the Giants to bench Jones to not risk triggering the injury money for 2025. If the Giants do that in order to hand the reigns to Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito, I'll be hoping a new GM and coaching staff will be in place in 2025.
At which point Jones would have killed off Shurmur, Garrett, Judge, Gettleman, Daboll and Schoen.
Watch Daboll go off and be a strong HC elsewhere too.
I wouldn't blame Jones. These guys choose to pay him and not even try to challenge him at any point as the starter. That's on them - Daboll included.
True... and I cried after that playoff win, but I'd argue that the extra wins last year set the franchise back further than the playoff win. If we were picking top 3 in this draft we would have a new franchise QB.
I don't think Schoen is that clueless about the impact of the QB... I think there are not easy answers unless you were picking at the top of the draft...
Quote:
In comment 16560147 JonC said:
Quote:
You can acknowledge it was fun to watch, but the next game was closer to the heart of the truth, and we're continuing to pay for it. All can be true and are.
This is what drives me nuts about that playoff "run".
How did they seem to put so much value on that win against a team with a terrible defense, but largely ignore what should've been learned the following week?
What drives me nuts is that people focus on just the QB when the roster we had could not compete with the Eagles or the Cowboys. It's really that simple. Both of their Lines ran roughshod over the Giants. People like me view from that angle. The QB is just part of the equation, and he showed in 2022 and prior years that he can be successful even with a less than average OL and skill position group. I'd like to see him behind at least an average OL with a WR better than Ritchie James as his top guy. If you go back to a game like the one where he got hurt just before the half ended and they were driving against the Cowboys in 2021. Saquon has a freak injury to his ankle, but he actually had a legit WR threat in Kadarius Toney. Toney has a breakout game with Jones throwing to him until he gets hurt trying to take on a LB to get in the EZ to tie the game. He's not a top level QB but he is a HELL of a lot better than people give him credit for. The injury history is a different story, but he is not some horrible QB.
I'm sure the usual suspects will swoop in and shit all over this post but that's what it is. Schoen and Daboll clearly see it in that light as well. Doesn't mean they won't upgrade if and when they can but acting like they don't know what they see or are no better than fans is absurd. IMV.
correctly said. You're a reasonable fan. Football is the utimate team game.
• There was more action in this practice because they expanded beyond the red zone for the first time. And now, I wade gently into Daniel Jones criticism...
• It looked like Jones had salvaged a rough day with a strong two-minute drive, highlighted by a bomb to Malik Nabers and a strike to Jalin Hyatt on a back-shoulder throw. But then the offense got another drive and it ended with Jones forcing a pass to Nabers in the end zone that was undercut by a leaping Dane Belton for an interception. Classic DJ "game mismanagement". Reminiscent of the 2023 Seattle game.
This was the first practice Jones really aired it out and, aside from the deep shot to Nabers, his accuracy was poor. He air-mailed a wide-open Wan'Dale Robinson, under-threw Nabers on a slot fade (good coverage by Deonte Banks) and threw behind Daniel Bellinger on a crossing route. Hyatt failed to making a leaping catch on a deep crossing route. Inspires zero confidence for himself or his teammates with his indecisive and inconsistent vertical passing game.
The throw that stood out the most for the wrong reason was a deep pass across the field to Nabers. Jones rolled right and threw back to the left side to Nabers, who had gotten open against Cor'Dale Flott. The throw was behind Nabers, allowing Flott to contest the pass. Nabers still could have made the catch, but it should have been an easy TD if Jones threw the ball harder/leads Nabers more. Classic DJ throwing just poorly enough to get his receivers injured or create a drop that leads to a potential interception. See Evan Engram.
And now the Jones disclaimer: He's the starting QB. His play is going to be analyzed. Some days he will be good, other days he will be bad. The coverage will be positive on the good days and critical on the bad days. Precisely the definition of Quarterback Hell. Quarterbacks like DJ are jettisoned before their option year. Not given a second contract and seven years to prove what was self-evident prior to the 2019 draft.
Joe was surprised that some things were captured and put on the show. They did not know of the angle, storyline, and the goals for the show, just that they were capturing footage.
That said, obviously some scenes were staged, but I assume the honest conversation didn't fit the format (too rambling, not focused, other irrelevant detail that couldn't be effectively edited out) so they re-enacted certain scenes.
Joe was surprised that some things were captured and put on the show. They did not know of the angle, storyline, and the goals for the show, just that they were capturing footage.
That said, obviously some scenes were staged, but I assume the honest conversation didn't fit the format (too rambling, not focused, other irrelevant detail that couldn't be effectively edited out) so they re-enacted certain scenes.
I'm glad you wrote this because a lot of this was my initial reaction. NYG had editorial input, but not final say.
And Schoen's recounting of his conversations seems genuine. Maybe there was less staged than we think. It sure sounded like, for example, that the call with Wolf was anything but staged.