First, I am going to take you back to the benching of Eli for Geno.
If you recall, the fans lost their minds over this. Especially those who were more concerned about a streak for Eli than the future of the team. This is not to say that Geno was the future. However, it was the first step in moving on from a great Giant QB who was not getting it done anymore.
Then, John Mara said and I quote "I did not expect the fans to get so emotional" over the decision. In my opinion, this is why they did not immediately draft his replacement and maybe why the Giants were not willing to draft Mahommes (or any other QB prospect) when available in and around that time.
You see, John wants the team to win but he is also marketing the team. Sometimes he is placing more weight on marketing.
Now, fast forward to the hard knocks clip where John is talking to Joe about Barkley. I am linking to it below. John Mara's concern is that Barkley is "popular".
This is how teams turn into cellar dwellers. Making decisions for the wrong reasons. Thank God Joe is only listening to him now and hopefully will never allow John to influence player personnel decisions.
Am I making too much of this? Maybe.. but we have no idea how much of this has happened behind closed doors.
John Mara Comments - (
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Too much is made of these comments by John Mara.
What many in the media, fans (vocal or letters), former great Giants were upset with as much as the benching was the terrible job Reese had been doing with the drafts and FA in building poor teams. They already got rid of TC. That is what Mara learned.
Wasting the last 5-6 years of Eli's career will go down as one of the worst timeframes in Giants history over time imv.
Too much is made of these comments by John Mara.
First, Eli wasn't benched. The Giants wanted him to start and play the first halves the rest of the way. They also wanted to see what else they had at QB, especially with Webb, since the season was over as far as the playoffs. They wanted to get Webb some playing time to see if they needed to look again for a QB in the draft. Eli decided he wasn't going to do that and took himself out of the lineup.
Second, the plan was just for Geno to play the second half of that week's game because it was on the road and Webb had had no practice snaps with the first team. Webb was going to take over the second-half role the next game at home (which might have been after a bye) and for the remaining games after getting reps with the first team in practice.
Sure they did. McAdoo loved Mahomes prior to that draft.
Too much is made of these comments by John Mara.
Exactly right. I was out of my mind over the benching, not because I gave shit about the streak, hell I was glad it was over, but that it was for Geno Smith. I get what McAdoo was thinking, even a marginal NFL QB would be better than Eli at that point, but for Mara to be so blind-sided shows just how blind he is. And then to make McAdoo the scapegoat for something he agreed to!
Now, I think McAdoo was the worst Giant's HC this side of Ray Handley, but he got a raw deal in that regard. That said, maybe he should have realized it wasn't as much Eli as it was his shitty offense.
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.
I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.
But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.
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Irate if Eli was benched for Davis Webb. Fans and media were irate over Geno Smith starting for Eli Manning. That was the difference. We knew what Geno Smith was and he wasn't good (credit to him for playing well in Seattle).
Too much is made of these comments by John Mara.
Exactly right. I was out of my mind over the benching, not because I gave shit about the streak, hell I was glad it was over, but that it was for Geno Smith. I get what McAdoo was thinking, even a marginal NFL QB would be better than Eli at that point, but for Mara to be so blind-sided shows just how blind he is. And then to make McAdoo the scapegoat for something he agreed to!
Now, I think McAdoo was the worst Giant's HC this side of Ray Handley, but he got a raw deal in that regard. That said, maybe he should have realized it wasn't as much Eli as it was his shitty offense.
Great post.
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.
I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.
But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.
💯
Not a good look there.
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.
I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.
But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.
No proof, but I've always believed that the way Mara crushed McAdoo as the fall guy may have created a bit of a black-ball effect on McAdoo.
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.
I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.
But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.
Geno Smith was never going to be the quarterback he is in Seattle if he stayed here. Pete Carroll put him in an offensive scheme that best suited him and credit to geno Smith for playing well.
Mcadoo was wrong about Geno with the NY Giants. He wasn't the future and wasn't the answer. Mcadoo screwed up in not giving Webb any reps in practice throughout the whole year. Webb was the young guy, who they drafted.
Not a good look there.
Geno Smith was a failed quarterback with the Jets before coming here. Prior to coming here, we all knew what he was and wasn't. It's wonderful to look now and say you knew all along and I will call bullshit. He has played very well in Seattle. Kudos to him, but at that time (not looking at now) he wasn't the answer.
I guarantee you that if he had stayed here, he wouldn't have lasted as a starter and he wouldn't have put up the numbers he has in Seattle.
It was reported Chris Mara was very high on Webb. It was a miss. I credit them for at least taking a swing.
What many in the media, fans (vocal or letters), former great Giants were upset with as much as the benching was the terrible job Reese had been doing with the drafts and FA in building poor teams. They already got rid of TC. That is what Mara learned.
Wasting the last 5-6 years of Eli's career will go down as one of the worst timeframes in Giants history over time imv.
This. Mara is an idiot. Ok. His firing of TC and not Reese proved that.
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--The team goes 11-5 in his rookie year as HC.
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.
I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.
But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.
No proof, but I've always believed that the way Mara crushed McAdoo as the fall guy may have created a bit of a black-ball effect on McAdoo.
And what about Reese? He dropped off the face of the earth at age 54.
That entire incident was an embarrassment. And I know this makes some people angry, but Geno Smith was the first black player to start at QB for the Giants...in their 93rd year of existence. And the next day the people involved in that decision were fired.
Abd clearly how it went down didn't sit well with Smith, who mentioned Reese and McAdoo after he led Seattle to a win over NYG in 2022.
I didn't see PM much in college but would have little faith in BM or "Reach" maximizing his talent. KC was a playoff team 4/5 years before he took over.
Regardless, Allen ('18) is the QB I did want and that was where I think the Giants missed.
Geno deserved to start and history has proven McAdoo correct.
Back to your regularly scheduled Mara rants...
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Irate if Eli was benched for Davis Webb. Fans and media were irate over Geno Smith starting for Eli Manning. That was the difference. We knew what Geno Smith was and he wasn't good (credit to him for playing well in Seattle).
Too much is made of these comments by John Mara.
First, Eli wasn't benched. The Giants wanted him to start and play the first halves the rest of the way. They also wanted to see what else they had at QB, especially with Webb, since the season was over as far as the playoffs. They wanted to get Webb some playing time to see if they needed to look again for a QB in the draft. Eli decided he wasn't going to do that and took himself out of the lineup.
Second, the plan was just for Geno to play the second half of that week's game because it was on the road and Webb had had no practice snaps with the first team. Webb was going to take over the second-half role the next game at home (which might have been after a bye) and for the remaining games after getting reps with the first team in practice.
In a tantrum, Eli benched himself. People forget that. He told Judge either he plays the whole game or none...got no sympathy from me.
Geno deserved to start and history has proven McAdoo correct.
I was one of them. I loved Eli. And I had seen enough of Geno to think he wasn’t the answer. If Eli was going to be benched, I wanted Webb to start.
Obviously Geno’s career since has proven me wrong.
But in the moment, it was emotional. I’m still pissed Eli answering ?s at his locker fighting back tears while you heard teammates goofing around in the background.
I've written endlessly on that situation and I continue to be amazed how Mara hardly drew any public criticism. That was a professional hit job ala the Mob.
And that created the domino effect that led to Accorsi being hired to hire Gettleman. Which drove the organization deeper into the ditch.
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In comment 16560506 TrueBlue56 said:
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Irate if Eli was benched for Davis Webb. Fans and media were irate over Geno Smith starting for Eli Manning. That was the difference. We knew what Geno Smith was and he wasn't good (credit to him for playing well in Seattle).
Too much is made of these comments by John Mara.
First, Eli wasn't benched. The Giants wanted him to start and play the first halves the rest of the way. They also wanted to see what else they had at QB, especially with Webb, since the season was over as far as the playoffs. They wanted to get Webb some playing time to see if they needed to look again for a QB in the draft. Eli decided he wasn't going to do that and took himself out of the lineup.
Second, the plan was just for Geno to play the second half of that week's game because it was on the road and Webb had had no practice snaps with the first team. Webb was going to take over the second-half role the next game at home (which might have been after a bye) and for the remaining games after getting reps with the first team in practice.
In a tantrum, Eli benched himself. People forget that. He told Judge either he plays the whole game or none...got no sympathy from me.
Exactly, and the change wasn't made for Smith. That was going to be for one half because Webb needed practice with the first team and they wanted his first game action to be at home. The plan always that Webb was going to play the second half of the remaining games.
Eli told the team he wouldn't play under those conditions. For some reason the NY media, and most fans, just ignore that fact.
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.
I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.
But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.
Right about a lot, except his suit!😂
He's a 2x SB winning GM and you just can't give him any credit. You keep referencing Reese but rarely reference Gettleman.
thank you! ONE person here (you) stayed on topic. This was not intended to belabor the Eli thing and was solely about how John Mara's decisions may be swayed by what the fans think.
Who cares if he liked Mahones. I am pretty damn confident him grooming and coaching him would have halted his greatness immediately.
And he didn’t lead us to the playoffs in 2016. The defense did which he had little to do with.
Nostalgia is a huge problem in this organization. You see it all over Hard Knocks. Shit, they have "Once a Giant, Always a Giant" printed on the throwbacks!
🤮
He was fired after one season in both jobs. But I guess anything to keep narratives going.
Who cares if he liked Mahones. I am pretty damn confident him grooming and coaching him would have halted his greatness immediately.
And he didn’t lead us to the playoffs in 2016. The defense did which he had little to do with.
No lovefest from me.
Just pointing out that Mara made him the fall guy for something that Mara ordered to do in the first place. Which was to bench Eli.
Mr. Class certainty didn't act like it that week...
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The McAdoo love fest here is sad. A horrific coach. Offense got worse when he became in charge of it. Players quit on him.
Who cares if he liked Mahones. I am pretty damn confident him grooming and coaching him would have halted his greatness immediately.
And he didn’t lead us to the playoffs in 2016. The defense did which he had little to do with.
No lovefest from me.
Just pointing out that Mara made him the fall guy for something that Mara ordered to do in the first place. Which was to bench Eli.
Mr. Class certainty didn't act like it that week...
Weird take. As an athlete I wouldn’t want to be pulled halfway through a game. Would you?
He wasn’t set up - that’s ridiculous.
That’s the NUMBER ONE reason he lost his job. When players quit on a coach, there’s no more damning reason to get fired.
lol what an awful take. Not surprising though.
TC was setup in 2015. The 2016 200m dollar spending spree on the D is proof. The O was pretty solid in 2015 with TC's guidance.
TC was setup in 2015. The 2016 200m dollar spending spree on the D is proof. The O was pretty solid in 2015 with TC's guidance.
Of course it’s a moronic statement.
Almost as moronic as a poster once saying the Eli memorabilia scandal would ruin the giants.
lol what an awful take. Not surprising though.
Oh please Dep. You were crying in your Manning jammies too.
That’s the NUMBER ONE reason he lost his job. When players quit on a coach, there’s no more damning reason to get fired.
Did the team quit or were they besieged by injuries while their franchise QB fall off a cliff?
Embarrassing when he played even more embarrassing now.
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Before the Manning decision.
That’s the NUMBER ONE reason he lost his job. When players quit on a coach, there’s no more damning reason to get fired.
Did the team quit or were they besieged by injuries while their franchise QB fall off a cliff?
From October 11th. Guess it was Eli’s fault
DRC leaves team - ( New Window )
Eli’s fault - ( New Window )
Offensively, McAdoo and Reese collaborated and wanted to keep the same dog shit OL and keep adding players outside so he can run 11 personnel all damn game.
JJ suspended - ( New Window )
Giants player quit - ( New Window )
And by the way - Smith wasn’t very good last year either.
And hey I get it. Hard to keep your scam operation ripping off fans with jerseys that "pass as game worn" when you don't play. Should've just played your half little scammer.
JFC, you are glossing over some significant pieces of the story that take Mara off the hook...
JFC, you are glossing over some significant pieces of the story that take Mara off the hook...
Are you ignoring my question to you in regards of voluntarily coming out of a game as an athlete?
Since I’ll be the adult - Mara, Reese, and McAdoo all handled it about as poorly as possible.
You have said you were a division 1 athlete. As was I. If I was told that no matter how I played - I was automatically coming out would something that would not set well with me. So as much as certain posters who forever have shitted on Eli and went as far saying he wasn’t that good - Eli did the right thing by saying - I’m not good enough to finish - then I should t start. He didn’t let the streak affect his mindset.
Him letting Geno start and finish the game was the right way - and in reality it was.
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In comment 16560622 JT039 said:
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The McAdoo love fest here is sad. A horrific coach. Offense got worse when he became in charge of it. Players quit on him.
Who cares if he liked Mahones. I am pretty damn confident him grooming and coaching him would have halted his greatness immediately.
And he didn’t lead us to the playoffs in 2016. The defense did which he had little to do with.
No lovefest from me.
Just pointing out that Mara made him the fall guy for something that Mara ordered to do in the first place. Which was to bench Eli.
Mr. Class certainty didn't act like it that week...
Weird take. As an athlete I wouldn’t want to be pulled halfway through a game. Would you?
As a former Div. 1 athlete I wouldn't want to be pulled. But if there was nothing to play for and the reason was to help make the team better in the long run I would undwrstand it. And i certainly wouldn't have said 'if i'm not going to play the whole game then i'm not going to play at all.'
It happens with every NFL team every year once the playoffs are out of reach - except the Giants. Coughlin would never replace starters with rookies in meaningless games at the end of losing seasons because that would be 'bad for the integrity of the league.' Sorry, his job was to make the Giants better.
Also, the reason they didn't just switch starters was their immense respect for Eli and his streak. It wasn't handled well by anyone involved, including Eli.
Plus whoever was being put in would be at a disadvantage as well. Coming in at half time is not a comfortable feeling.
Crying like a little baby about it afterward was the issue. Buck up little bronco, part of the reason the team was eliminated was because you were shot.
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.
I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.
But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.
Guy was joke. Shit coach. He sooooo amazing he's what done at since ? Now was he at fault for the who team no.
And so fucking what he liked Mahommes. Wow. Rehire him now.
Crying like a little baby about it afterward was the issue. Buck up little bronco, part of the reason the team was eliminated was because you were shot.
Sure it was the issue - the fact he was 'benched' is what pissed off many fans. If Eli had accepted it as what was best for the team there would have been no issue.
And show me one other NFL player who, when told the team was going to start giving a young guy playing time in his place, told his team 'I'm not going to play at all then.'
People will think whatever they want and facts be damned if it doesn't fit their narrative.
I'm not a hero worship kind of guy. Manning was a very good quarterback and had some truly amazing moments, that brought all of us a great deal of joy.
He also from day one knew how to play to the cameras, and was complicit in defrauding well meaning fans with the equipment bozos.
He's not a saint. He just plays one in front of the cameras.
You mean like this?
"It's hard day to handle this, but I'll hang in there and figure it out," Manning told reporters, fighting back tears in the locker room.
Some always have. This is nothing new.
I love Eli. Love him.
He didn't handle that situation well, and the Giants didn't handle the last few years of his career well. Too much emphasis was placed on that meaningless games played streak and on him not wearing another uniform, and not enough emphasis was placed (by the organization) on doing whatever has to be done to build a winning team.
It ended up being to the detriment of everyone involved.
Lot of catch words and phrases being used here: setup, undermining. To me and others with a clue - they have little to zero value to the discussion at hand.
And I have cried over missing my 9 year olds basketball games because I was too sick to go. Does that make a little bitch?
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It saddens me reading this thread and seeing posters I respect shitting on Eli.
I love Eli. Love him.
He didn't handle that situation well, and the Giants didn't handle the last few years of his career well. Too much emphasis was placed on that meaningless games played streak and on him not wearing another uniform, and not enough emphasis was placed (by the organization) on doing whatever has to be done to build a winning team.
It ended up being to the detriment of everyone involved.
The only person who didn’t care about the streak was Eli. But he’s a bitch according to some.
The real villain in the play is Mara. He was too busy trying to orchestrate soft landings, he ended up make a mess of every happy ending.
From Coughlin's 'retirement' to Manning's benching.
I respect the way Young did it with Simms. Dude you're old, it's over. See you at the Super Bowl reunion.
lol.
I think you crying because you're seriously ill and missed something important to your family, and Manning putting on the waterworks because he chose not to play a game is quite different.
lol.
Man of the year. Just don't buy anything off his eBay store.
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And I have cried over missing my 9 year olds basketball games because I was too sick to go. Does that make a little bitch?
I think you crying because you're seriously ill and missed something important to your family, and Manning putting on the waterworks because he chose not to play a game is quite different.
Listen - I don’t know how people react. But if something is taken away from you that you have done your whole life is easy.
But let me ask you an honest question. Do you think it’s possible when told of this news that Eli thought his career was over? This wasn’t suppose to be a 1 game trial. Being told you’re not good enough anymore had to be a gut shot. I would wager he probably thought his career was over.
Now following this can all be laid on Mara, I agree with you 100%. But knowing something is coming to an end can be emotional.
You could be right. But shouldn’t we be thankful that if it was an act - it got McAdoo out quicker? Haha. I try to look at any positives!
I respect his game. He's pocketed a quarter B, parlayed his goofball act into a character that will pay him in perpetuity, and he was pretty legit on the field in the biggest moments.
He's a slick dude. I just wouldn't leave my wallet on the coffee table if he was at the house.
The irony in this whole thing is that Mara, in his misguided attempts to do right by a player he loved, did much to damage Eli's career and legacy. It would have been better for Eli to leave the organization after 2015 when that contract expired. Clean house - Reese, Coughlin, Eli all leave with their heads held high and start a new project.
Instead we got what we got. Once a Giant, Always a Giant. Who cares?
I was pretty young when Simms was cut. I had never really seen how fine of a line between having it and not having it looked like.
Just a fraction of a second slower, and a little bit less in the arm, and invincible Manning was target practice Manning.
I played a D1 sport as well and I learned in the little leagues in 3 sports the best players play and you play to win.
The idea that an NFL team (with a two time SB MVP) would have a pre-determined plan is ridiculous. You have a HC on his way out and GM that should have already been long gone executing this plan makes it even worse.
I love Eli.
My main point is history should be kind to both McAdoo and Reese. What followed from 2018-2023 speaks for itself.
LOL, yes when the owner instructed the GM and coach it was time to take a look at the backups, the right decision was to have no plan.
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It saddens me reading this thread and seeing posters I respect shitting on Eli.
I love Eli.
My main point is history should be kind to both McAdoo and Reese. What followed from 2018-2023 speaks for itself.
Reese - yes. Much like Eli - his career ended badly. But the first half of his career he was on track to be a HOF GM.
Mcadoo should not be remembered at all.
I think you said it. 2018 Eli > 2022 Jones
If you think it was Mara's doing?
The ball then really got rolling Monday, a day before the Giants returned from their three-day holiday break following their 20-10 Thanksgiving night loss to the Redskins.
"Jerry called me on Monday afternoon - I was at a family function in Virginia - to tell me that Ben was going to be speaking to Eli to let him know he was going to be continuing to start the game, but that at some point, Geno would come in," Mara said.
"Tuesday morning, Jerry called me and said Eli had informed Ben that if you're going to play Geno in the second half, you may as well just start him. It's not fair to him, it's not fair to me, I think that would be the best decision going forward. He also wanted us to put out a statement announcing it. So that's what we did."
He wasn't benched. He chose not to play because they told him they wanted to get the other QBs, mainly Webb, some playing time so they could evaluate them. A competitor would have gone out and played the best he could for the first half of each game to show they didn't need think about replacing him the next year.
It doesn't change the point I did make about a high quality GM squashing it.
Instead we all got treated to another season plus of Manning getting curb stomped and double digit losses.
Yay us.
Eli never “cried” about the benching. His issue was that whatever plan Mara, or Reese or McAdoo came up with, would have him “start” the game, just to check a box for his streak but then pull him somewhere in the middle of the game.
It’s clear that Eli was questioning the competitive spirit of that arrangement both in terms of trying to win a football game and also cheapening what is a very prestigious streak but one that Giants fans clearly don’t appreciate anyway.
Fucking idiots.
McAdoo didn't do anything to deserve any recognition or applause. To praise him for the 2014-2015, while TC was handling the offensive reigns? We saw his offense in 2016 and he couldn't sustain a run game or have any creativity on offense. 30th ranked YPA on the ground. A supposed wizard from the McCarthy tree, worked with TE's and we all remember the glory days of Will Tye, Adrien Robinson and Larry Donnell.
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I think the FO fucked up the back end of Eli's career. Simple as that. I have no problem with Eli being pissed that he was benched. He's a competitor.
He wasn't benched. He chose not to play because they told him they wanted to get the other QBs, mainly Webb, some playing time so they could evaluate them. A competitor would have gone out and played the best he could for the first half of each game to show they didn't need think about replacing him the next year.
Bullshit.
Hey, I'm looking forward to our college day threads.
Especially when you are deep into the sauce...
;)
You're surprised SF? You respect douches like BW, GT, and Christian? All they are doing on this thread is showing their true colors..
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It saddens me reading this thread and seeing posters I respect shitting on Eli.
You're surprised SF? You respect douches like BW, GT, and Christian? All they are doing on this thread is showing their true colors..
So my accurate description of the events offends you?
You're surprised SF? You respect douches like BW, GT, and Christian? All they are doing on this thread is showing their true colors..
If you're familiar with my posting on this site over the last near 20 years, I've never pretended to think Manning was some unassailable hero. My colors have always been quite clear. Nothing more true today than any other day.
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It saddens me reading this thread and seeing posters I respect shitting on Eli.
You're surprised SF? You respect douches like BW, GT, and Christian? All they are doing on this thread is showing their true colors..
If you're familiar with my posting on this site over the last near 20 years, I've never pretended to think Manning was some unassailable hero. My colors have always been quite clear. Nothing more true today than any other day.
Yes, guys like you are super unimpressed with 2 Super Bowl MVPs, a decade of consistent winning football, the great play in Super Bowl history, the greatest throw in Super Bowl history, 2 of the toughest NFC title game performances by a QB on the road plus an Ironman streak.
I mean, you’re totally cool calling it like you see it!
The most prominent point here is not what Mara believes, but that he deferred to the GM. As long as Mara is letting the GM make the calls, he can think what the fuck he wants. For what really matters here --Mara got it right. Which is the decision to empower the GM for roster making decisions. From what I can see here, it's clear that the near term future will be shaped by Schoen's decision making, not Mara's.
I mean, you’re totally cool calling it like you see it!
All the on the field stuff was excellent.
He's still a big time phony who ripped off fans with the equipment guys and used his crocodile tears to maneuver around situations he didn't like.
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Yes, guys like you are super unimpressed with 2 Super Bowl MVPs, a decade of consistent winning football, the great play in Super Bowl history, the greatest throw in Super Bowl history, 2 of the toughest NFC title game performances by a QB on the road plus an Ironman streak.
I mean, you’re totally cool calling it like you see it!
All the on the field stuff was excellent.
He's still a big time phony who ripped off fans with the equipment guys and used his crocodile tears to maneuver around situations he didn't like.
lol ok…
Yea that Manning is a real swindler!
That stuff is far more important than what he does for pediatric cancer, March of Dimes and the various other causes for good he’s aligned himself with that lead to his winning a Walter Payton man of the year award.
You’ve really picked some hill to die on as a “Giants fan”.
Not a good look there.
The argument was the same as DeVito. Start the guy who might actually be the future(Davis, Devito) rather than the guy who is not (Geno, TT). In Geno's case, it seems he could have been the future.
He's still a big time phony who ripped off fans with the equipment guys and used his crocodile tears to maneuver around situations he didn't like.
lol ok…
Yea that Manning is a real swindler!
That stuff is far more important than what he does for pediatric cancer, March of Dimes and the various other causes for good he’s aligned himself with that lead to his winning a Walter Payton man of the year award.
You’ve really picked some hill to die on as a “Giants fan”.
Last time I checked my fan pulse is still ticking, but thanks for the concern.
I'm sure Manning has done lots of excellent things. Doesn't change he's a phony.
Geno deserved to start and history has proven McAdoo correct.
IMO your entire take on this thread has bene completely wrong and is coming close to cringe-worthy. Genu sucked before coming to the Giants. He sucked. He sucked. Anyone saying they knew (not saying you did) he would be good, he would be full of it. For fans like you that have followed football has much as you have, you had to understand those Giants teams were going down the shitter.
It seems Geno is some type of hero for you? Otherwise why would any mention of any Geno negativety made of him make you cringe? He was part of a crappy team. If you think he was going to do anything to move the needle then you are out of your mind which is why the lunatic McAdoo got fired. You have to remember his moronic comment that was played over-and-over - to this day should draw laughs; "Geno gives us the best chance to win . . ." To WIN WHAT?????????!!!
We were used to Super Bowls with Eli, and befoee him Super Bowls as well. Their only chance TO WIN at a high level was Eli unless you were ready to throw in the towel then you were looking to rebuild. To come out and blatantly mislead the proud fan base in then manner he did while Giants had let go of TC - just turned this guy into a clown. The Giants fan base was PROUD and yet to have McAdoo, that wasn't involved in the prior success, to blatantly mislead was over-the-top. The fans would have understood that if Eli were to be dumped then The Giants were no longer going to be "winning!" The arrogqance this guy had with so little success. Who did he think he was kidding?
And here you are making a big deal out of Geno Smith. As if you have never watched the NFL before in which you have seen other QB's move on from lousy teams, awful run teams etc and do well. Now all of a sudden this is oblivious to you? Your worship for Geno doesn't seem to take any of this into account. Otherwise, why is knocking Geno cringe-worthy? "Mediocre-at-best" is NOT WINNING. We're sort of following this "mediocre path" now, arent we?
You really think Geno was going to do shit here? The way this team was run vs how you see Seattle run? Thus your excuse making with Geno/McAdoo is similar to what we're experiencing now with Jones. Jones isn’t leading us anywhere unless everything is perfect. The same would have been for Geno. And if you can't recognize this then yeah your posts on this matter are cringe-worthy.
Geno deserved to start and history has proven McAdoo correct.
Let’s not forget Eli made that situation uncomfortable. Whether you feel he was right in doing so or not doesn’t change the fact that he basically benched himself
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.
I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.
But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.
Agree that McAdoo was right about a lot of things and gets little or no credit for it.
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All the on the field stuff was excellent.
He's still a big time phony who ripped off fans with the equipment guys and used his crocodile tears to maneuver around situations he didn't like.
lol ok…
Yea that Manning is a real swindler!
That stuff is far more important than what he does for pediatric cancer, March of Dimes and the various other causes for good he’s aligned himself with that lead to his winning a Walter Payton man of the year award.
You’ve really picked some hill to die on as a “Giants fan”.
Last time I checked my fan pulse is still ticking, but thanks for the concern.
I'm sure Manning has done lots of excellent things. Doesn't change he's a phony.
You are just another fan who thinks he knows more than everyone else. Eli was never the issue. The issue was the shitty drafts, lousy lines at the end of his career, and lack of talent. You can blame Eli, but I remember the 70's and you are acting like a spoiled brat. You have no clue. I played at a fairly high level and coached some decent talent.
You like dumping on Eli because in some way it makes you feel important when you are no more important than anyone else here.
Eli rightfully called out the pompous ass, and he said, "If we're going out there to win the game, that's fine. But automatically taking me out regardless of success or failure is bullshit. You're better off just playing one of the other guys."
And yeah he got emotional about it. Shock of all shocks, he actually gave a shit about the organization. But somehow, that makes him a phony.
McAdoo didn't lose his job because of Eli, he lost his job because he was a pompous jerk who got the job in the first place because Mara feared him going to the Eagles. Then the team openly quit on him in like week 10 when they gave up in that home game vs. the Rams, and gave up a 3rd and 35 or something like that.
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Not only that, the fans were fucking outraged over it. It's uncomfortable. It still is .
Geno deserved to start and history has proven McAdoo correct.
Let’s not forget Eli made that situation uncomfortable. Whether you feel he was right in doing so or not doesn’t change the fact that he basically benched himself
Huh?
This isn't Grammar School, is it? When you realize as an Owner/GM for a Professional Organization worth billions in which your team is going in rebuild mode after a great run of success, you're going to be worried about making someone on the team that has been paid a ton that he will be made "Uncomfortable?"
If the Giants felt this way, then are they running a Grammar School Organization or a Professional one?
When a player is on the downside of his career and the team is sinking, you are going to put the player above the team?
Players can run teams/.organizations when they are great to varying degrees. But the moment they decline to a certain level that's just not very good, a product such as the Giants are on such a large scale, then there is no way that they should be that concerned about making the declining player uncomfortable to a certain extent.
Instead of making the laughable comment that McAdoo made that rightfully probably got the lunatic fired; all that should have been said in some manner was that "it's time to rebuild and evaluate our younger players." How hard is that to say to explain to a PROUD fan base that the time has come for no longer being a contender?
Anyone with a brain knew that Geno was NOT making them a contender. It’s what makes anyone making a big deal of positive comments about him from a team in which sucked,- so absurd. This seems to have been forgotten and its coming back at us again with Jones. You mean we want to celebrate the nut coach that could have been right to help the Giants achieve 5 or 6 wins vs 4 or 5 from 54/6 years ago?
We're fans most of us. I wonder at times if some people on this site forget that? The Giants weren't going TO WIN. Who did this guy think he was kidding?
--He correctly evaluated Geno Smith as someone who could be a QB here. Smith ultimately led the Seahawks to the playoffs and earned a lucrative contract. McAdoo was right.
--He correctly was very high on Patrick Mahomes.
--He knew Eli was near the end.
I love Eli. That goes without saying. But, McAdoo paid the price for challenging Eli and the Mannings. He was never going to win that battle.
But, looking back. McAdoo was right about a lot. I know we can't say that here though.
Joe Judge was worse than McAdoo.
Geno had a bad ending with the Jets. He needed more time to get himself together and I think he deserves a lot of credit for staying at it and having some success years later.
Eli rightfully called out the pompous ass, and he said, "If we're going out there to win the game, that's fine. But automatically taking me out regardless of success or failure is bullshit. You're better off just playing one of the other guys."
And yeah he got emotional about it. Shock of all shocks, he actually gave a shit about the organization. But somehow, that makes him a phony.
McAdoo didn't lose his job because of Eli, he lost his job because he was a pompous jerk who got the job in the first place because Mara feared him going to the Eagles. Then the team openly quit on him in like week 10 when they gave up in that home game vs. the Rams, and gave up a 3rd and 35 or something like that.
Perfectly stated.
It was reported Chris Mara was very high on Webb. It was a miss. I credit them for at least taking a swing.
A 3rd round QB was not much of a swing. If they were serious they should have been drafting a QB a lot higher than that. I'm sure Mara was worried about the optics and the popular player Eli was with the fans (sound familiar?). He should have been looking at the future of the team.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Whatever. Doesn’t mean it has any value.
I wonder who that served in the eyes of public opinion. An contrived announcement plus a teary press conference. I look forward to next episode of Hard Knocks where Manny is prepping Schoen for the draft press conference.
I wonder who that served in the eyes of public opinion. A contrived announcement plus a teary press conference. I look forward to next episode of Hard Knocks where Manny is prepping Schoen for the draft press conference.
I think it is a bit odd how excited you seem to learn of anything negative related to Manning. From my view, you are about as objective regarding Manning as I am.
I never thought it was going to be easy to find Eli’s successor that would keep the team competitive like he did for many years. I just can’t believe how little they have tried. Inexcusable across several GMs.
I wonder who that served in the eyes of public opinion. A contrived announcement plus a teary press conference. I look forward to next episode of Hard Knocks where Manny is prepping Schoen for the draft press conference.
I think it is a bit odd how excited you seem to learn of anything negative related to Manning. From my view, you are about as objective regarding Manning as I am.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
In 2017, both Dallas and Philly had three AP/PB OL. WFT had 2. All three teams had a future HOF LT. Giants had Flowers. 5 and potentially 6 HOF players in that group of 8
JR never drafted or added a PB OL in 11 seasons.
Eli would have been just fine with any of those teams or better yet just upgrade the GM spot once Reese was exposed a few years before they did fire him.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
This 😀
Good times - ( New Window )
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LOL I actually learned something new about Manning's little tragedy. He asked the team to put out an announcement on what was going on beforehand?
I wonder who that served in the eyes of public opinion. A contrived announcement plus a teary press conference. I look forward to next episode of Hard Knocks where Manny is prepping Schoen for the draft press conference.
I think it is a bit odd how excited you seem to learn of anything negative related to Manning. From my view, you are about as objective regarding Manning as I am.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
Well my guess is you're having one of those moments you end up apologizing for later in the thread, as is often the case.
I liked Manning on the field. I think he's a phony off the field. That was my position in 2004 and I said it here then. Nothing he did changed my opinion.
I remember lots of people feeling that way about him in 2004. I think Manning Inc. is made for the cameras and that was part of the package having a Manning as a Giant all those years.
Giants fan always have, and continue to find ways to tear down their own QB who is a legendary postseason performer with 2 titles under his belt. Provided 10 years of relevant football without missing a start and was the consummate professional.
I think you have a sad and pathetic life and a sick obsession with me. I think you tirelessly and repeatedly bring up the one or two personal things I've shared on this site because you're a weirdo.
I shared I managed a large data organization in the context of a conversation around the analysis of data. And I shared that I left that organization as part of any early retirement when *you* kept bringing it up.
The number of times you discuss my personal life is 100X the times I have.
I have a close family member who is a regular, original BBIer who posts here everyday and several friends who know me. If you need some kind of strange corroboration of my personal affairs, I'll happily send you there way.
In the meantime, do yourself a favor, and stop being such a God damned weirdo.
I already have told you are a phony. I proved it to you with your own words.
I do feel bad as I think you issues are much bigger than just being insecure. I do hope you try to address that.
Good luck.
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I think it is a bit odd how excited you seem to learn of anything negative related to Manning. From my view, you are about as objective regarding Manning as I am.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
Well my guess is you're having one of those moments you end up apologizing for later in the thread, as is often the case.
I liked Manning on the field. I think he's a phony off the field. That was my position in 2004 and I said it here then. Nothing he did changed my opinion.
I remember lots of people feeling that way about him in 2004. I think Manning Inc. is made for the cameras and that was part of the package having a Manning as a Giant all those years.
I should apologize when I am being unfair. I don’t think I am being unfair now and I doubt I will later.
You don’t need to go over your case again, I know it.
This thread is a perfect example. I'm exchanging opinions on football and football related topics.
It never dawned on me how genuinely psycho you might be until a few days ago. This whole time I thought you were totally joking, but you're exhibiting deeply disturbing behavior.
How about this - you only talk about football like I do?
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
Well my guess is you're having one of those moments you end up apologizing for later in the thread, as is often the case.
I liked Manning on the field. I think he's a phony off the field. That was my position in 2004 and I said it here then. Nothing he did changed my opinion.
I remember lots of people feeling that way about him in 2004. I think Manning Inc. is made for the cameras and that was part of the package having a Manning as a Giant all those years.
I should apologize when I am being unfair. I don’t think I am being unfair now and I doubt I will later.
You don’t need to go over your case again, I know it.
I'm a little confused then what the course of debate you're looking for in this exchange.
If you just want to be insulting, that's not very engaging.
I think the point is Manning was in decline, and even someone as under-qualified as McAdoo could see it.
I imagine others in the organization could see it, but the at the highest levels the team had been operating through a combination of nostalgia and ignorance.
Then post better and stay away from your stupid comments about Eli or TC which is your way of defending your hero Reese.
Like I said long ago you have a big insecurity problem and even bigger reflection problem. You also have a poor character imv and I could care less to hear from anyone you know. That again shows your insecurity.
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I think it is a bit odd how excited you seem to learn of anything negative related to Manning. From my view, you are about as objective regarding Manning as I am.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
Well my guess is you're having one of those moments you end up apologizing for later in the thread, as is often the case.
I liked Manning on the field. I think he's a phony off the field. That was my position in 2004 and I said it here then. Nothing he did changed my opinion.
I remember lots of people feeling that way about him in 2004. I think Manning Inc. is made for the cameras and that was part of the package having a Manning as a Giant all those years.
I should apologize when I am being unfair. I don’t think I am being unfair now and I doubt I will later.
You don’t need to go over your case again, I know it.
I'm a little confused then what the course of debate you're looking for in this exchange.
If you just want to be insulting, that's not very engaging.
I simply made an observation.
Have I insulted you?
Well, it worked out for us in the long term so (shrugs shoulders).
It truly does seem to bother you Reese was the lynch pin of those championships.
Thankfully Reese was there to manage around some of Manning's flaws, and Coughlin's shortcomings.
Well, it worked out for us in the long term so (shrugs shoulders).
Yeah don't hate the player, hate the game. As a fan I'm very pleased Manning maneuvered his way from San Diego to New York. My only interest in the whole thing is the Giants winning.
But let's not put our heads up our own butts and pretend like Manning Inc. didn't use the press and the on-stage moment to help in that maneuver.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
Well my guess is you're having one of those moments you end up apologizing for later in the thread, as is often the case.
I liked Manning on the field. I think he's a phony off the field. That was my position in 2004 and I said it here then. Nothing he did changed my opinion.
I remember lots of people feeling that way about him in 2004. I think Manning Inc. is made for the cameras and that was part of the package having a Manning as a Giant all those years.
I should apologize when I am being unfair. I don’t think I am being unfair now and I doubt I will later.
You don’t need to go over your case again, I know it.
I'm a little confused then what the course of debate you're looking for in this exchange.
If you just want to be insulting, that's not very engaging.
I simply made an observation.
Have I insulted you?
You sought me out by criticizing my observation, yet you don't want me to go over case.
I'm happy to debate the topic with you. Seems like maybe your aren't?
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I think it is a bit odd how excited you seem to learn of anything negative related to Manning. From my view, you are about as objective regarding Manning as I am.
I think you probably don't know what makes me excited in life.
Yeah, no shit. We’re all just guessing here.
Well my guess is you're having one of those moments you end up apologizing for later in the thread, as is often the case.
I liked Manning on the field. I think he's a phony off the field. That was my position in 2004 and I said it here then. Nothing he did changed my opinion.
I remember lots of people feeling that way about him in 2004. I think Manning Inc. is made for the cameras and that was part of the package having a Manning as a Giant all those years.
I should apologize when I am being unfair. I don’t think I am being unfair now and I doubt I will later.
You don’t need to go over your case again, I know it.
I'm a little confused then what the course of debate you're looking for in this exchange.
If you just want to be insulting, that's not very engaging.
I simply made an observation.
Have I insulted you?
You sought me out by criticizing my observation, yet you don't want me to go over case.
I'm happy to debate the topic with you. Seems like maybe your aren't?
You're right, I am not. We have done that before, multiple times.
Does any part of you intentionally bring up the Manning fraud case purposely to provoke other posters?
My criticism insulted you, yes or no?
And sad.
Well done.
Geno, turned out to be a petty good QB in the right system. Why couldn't we try to emulated what Seattle did? with him?
Iy all starts at the top as far as I'm concerned. You can blame Schoen/Daboll, however it's the owner that has to right the ship. They do that by hiring the correct people for the positions.
Everyone loves the job McVey/Snead have done with the Rams, but I give the owner a lot of credit in hiring them both, and most importantly, trusting their instincts. They have a very unorthodox system of roster construction that produces success.
Success leaves clues.
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see, it’s because you chose not too. However, praising a guy like McAdoo for getting a few things right when his overall body of work sucked is odd.
I think the point is Manning was in decline, and even someone as under-qualified as McAdoo could see it.
I imagine others in the organization could see it, but the at the highest levels the team had been operating through a combination of nostalgia and ignorance.
Yes that’s what I said.
A lot of odd posts in this thread though as I said above too.
Faces come out in the rain.
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People are certainly strange.
Faces come out in the rain.
Love ‘The Doors’ reference.
My comment was intended to let you know how I see it when you consistently bring up Manning being a phony.
I don’t see my view being any more ‘strange’ than yours if indeed you were including me in your ‘strange’ comment. I won’t deny being strange to others.
I’m a big Manning fan, I also can acknowledge that merchandising scheme was pretty lame.
Some people seem to confuse being a fan and a cheerleader. They aren’t the same thing.
And hey if you want to wave your Pom Pom’s around go ahead. Just don’t act like people they don’t share your opinions are bad people. That is even more lame
My comment was intended to let you know how I see it when you consistently bring up Manning being a phony.
I don’t see my view being any more ‘strange’ than yours if indeed you were including me in your ‘strange’ comment. I won’t deny being strange to others.
I think your are seeing ghosts.
I’m a big Manning fan, I also can acknowledge that merchandising scheme was pretty lame.
Some people seem to confuse being a fan and a cheerleader. They aren’t the same thing.
And hey if you want to wave your Pom Pom’s around go ahead. Just don’t act like people they don’t share your opinions are bad people. That is even more lame
I am big fan of Manning the football player. And less of a fan of Manning Inc. the public figure.
The dude literally instructed the team to issue a public statement regarding his choice to not play.
Manning Inc. are experts at using the press and public sentiment to further their business.
Are you ignoring my question to you in regards of voluntarily coming out of a game as an athlete?
Since I’ll be the adult - Mara, Reese, and McAdoo all handled it about as poorly as possible.
You have said you were a division 1 athlete. As was I. If I was told that no matter how I played - I was automatically coming out would something that would not set well with me. So as much as certain posters who forever have shitted on Eli and went as far saying he wasn’t that good - Eli did the right thing by saying - I’m not good enough to finish - then I should t start. He didn’t let the streak affect his mindset.
Him letting Geno start and finish the game was the right way - and in reality it was.
I haven't discussed Eli's actions for that situation. That criticism is coming from the keyboard of others.
And let me say this for clarity. The 2017 season was a total organizational failure. No one is immune from criticism. From the opening kickoff of the season, the season completely spiraled out of control. Injuries, player revolts, lack of professionalism, lack of leadership, etc. You name it.
But my focus has been on Mara's actions and how he fired his GM and HC for doing what they were told to do. I find that appalling. He couldn't handle the media and fan blowback, panicked, and hung his GM and HC out to dry.
I don't why this is in dispute.
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see, it’s because you chose not too. However, praising a guy like McAdoo for getting a few things right when his overall body of work sucked is odd.
I think the point is Manning was in decline, and even someone as under-qualified as McAdoo could see it.
I imagine others in the organization could see it, but the at the highest levels the team had been operating through a combination of nostalgia and ignorance.
And yrt at the end, McAdoo couldn't tell that the team was in decline with his moronic comment that "Geno gives us the bext chance to win. . . " To win what?
Why would he say it, if he didnn't mean it?
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I believe your comment was intended to be insulting. My comments on Manning are how I feel, and in the context of the debate.
My comment was intended to let you know how I see it when you consistently bring up Manning being a phony.
I don’t see my view being any more ‘strange’ than yours if indeed you were including me in your ‘strange’ comment. I won’t deny being strange to others.
I think your are seeing ghosts.
Probably. I am a bit insecure.
This was the whole point of the thread. Thankfully Hard Knocks has reinforced what I always suspected.
Mike "how can you do this to the loyal fans who supported this team for decades?" Mara "If the fans knew the costs we have incurred with the new stadium they would understand".
WTF who told you to build this dump in the first place.
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The very washed version of Manning definitely compares favorably to anything that's followed. That's what the bottom of the barrel looks like.
I think you said it. 2018 Eli > 2022 Jones
With all do respect to both of you as posters, no way. A lot what made Eli's 2018 stats respectable on the surface (YPA, yards) were ran up in garbage time defeats or against weak opponents once the season was basically over, his advanced stats reflect this.
I'm no Jones enthusiast but he was a plus player in 2022.