That one pass in his end zone while under duress. I’m sure he knows that too. Okay, so he made a mistake…it happens. This was his first game back so why make a big deal on this one play? Let’s review the positives of the game for him:
1. His numbers were pretty good: 11-18 for 138.
And had Nabers not dropped that long pass down the right sideline…and yes, it was beautifully thrown….Nabers has been catching harder passes than that all preseason….his stats would have been 12-18 for about 170. That’s not bad for one half of football.
2. No sacks, so he got rid of the ball quickly
3. Very accurate long passes…the one to Slayton for 44 was a beaut. The drop by Nabers in quarter 1 was nice. A few others to Nabers were nice.
4. His two minute drill at the end of the first half was tremendous. Too bad we had to kick a FG instead of a TD to tie up the game.
5. Being down 14-10 at half on the road isn’t too shabby.
6. This was Jones first game back from a serious injury. He looked poised and relaxed. Naturally, there will be some rust to shake off. Like I said, his numbers and the score at half are not an indication he stunk. Reading some comments saying otherwise is just not accurate. I think everyone who absolutely cannot cut Jones any slack will see what THEY WANT TO SEE. Like that one ill advised pass…..and forget the rest.
Oh well, I’m sure I can’t convince the hard of heart guys out there, but you should not be hating on Jones for THIS GAME.
Dude, very serious.
When did 12-18 for 170 look bad to you? (Assuming Nabers catches that pass)
Did you read my post? Why don’t you take issue with my 6 points? Probably because you know you will get out debated….
Stick to the facts, not opinions…..too many of you guys make that mistake. You need older guys like myself to balance you out and remind you FACTS > Opinions
I was t able to watch closely with my grandchildren over the house playing rough with our two dogs….but didn’t Nabers drop that beautifully thrown long pass in one of those first two series? I’m pretty sure he did. If you agree, then you certainly can’t fault him for that series.
Let’s be honest please about DJ
He did make some nice throws as you mentioned
I wonder if he has the self awareness to realize that after posting this morning about how he was “wiping the slate clean” with Jones, that he is posting about Jones having a good game despite being objectively awful?
5Bowls - you are seeing what you want to see.
That said, it's his first game action in 9 months or so. Hopefully, he takes a long look at that beard and switches it to a mustache.
Second int doesn’t bother me much. A very good CB made a play on ball that wasn’t horrible. It just wasn’t perfect, but I like the aggressive ness. The pic 6 was mind numbing stupid. There were a a couple other poor throws. Also some good ones. Bad game. Move on. Jones is what he is. I think if they can keep attacking down field we can be competitive. But he’s not the long term answer, we’ve known that. (Some of us since he was drafted).
Well, one side is living in reality. The other isn’t.
THIS!
It's as if people forget how bare the cupboard was before JS and BD got here. This team is growing. They are better than before they arrived, but still have a ways to go. They will not, in all likelihood, contend for a SB. The playoffs alone are a tall order. Everyone knew this. Just get better and keep building the roster. That's the goal right now. And it's the right approach. I don't understand why some feel that they are a QB or other player away from glory.
When this QB line in 2024 is considered pretty good then all is lost for some NYG fans.
If CJ Stroud was the Giants quarterback, how many wins would you predict for the Giants?
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are just pure cringe at this point. And it's ruining the site.
THIS!
Indeed this. DJ is not top 5, so Giants should be looking constantly for upgrades. But he also isn’t going to be a disaster. Our win total doesn’t change from 6 or 7 because of one half of a preseason game. People around here need to re-up their anxiety meds.
Barely underthrown….Hyatt really didn’t have separation. At least Jones tried to give his WR a chance to fight for it. My gosh you can’t win with you guys….
“Jones is afraid to throw long, always checks down…”
And then when he does throw long and it gets picked…..”see that pass he (barely) underthrew ? What a bum….”
Always looking to find fault….
That said, it's his first game action in 9 months or so. Hopefully, he takes a long look at that beard and switches it to a mustache.
Again, when does 12-18 for 170 become bad? (Adding in Nabers drop)
I know saying "after the pick 6" he was fine is ridiculous, but its still preseason. If DJ plays like he did after the pick 6 we will score a lot of points. What was he after, something like 11-15 for 138 yds in one half.
I know its cool to bash bash bash, and I'm not saying DJ is a top 10 QB, but if he plays like he did after the pick-6 that is a top 20 type guy
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He did not look good. He looked like he normally looks.
That said, it's his first game action in 9 months or so. Hopefully, he takes a long look at that beard and switches it to a mustache.
Again, when does 12-18 for 170 become bad? (Adding in Nabers drop)
If you add the Nabers drop then add the 1st pass of the game that could've been another pick 6.
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What about the underthrow to Hyatt that was picked off?
Barely underthrown….Hyatt really didn’t have separation. At least Jones tried to give his WR a chance to fight for it. My gosh you can’t win with you guys….
“Jones is afraid to throw long, always checks down…”
And then when he does throw long and it gets picked…..”see that pass he (barely) underthrew ? What a bum….”
Always looking to find fault….
Re-watch it. Hyatt had a step with no safety help. It was the right decision, just a bad throw. DJ said as much in his post game.
The bad part is he still has the same flaws he always has.
I know saying "after the pick 6" he was fine is ridiculous, but its still preseason. If DJ plays like he did after the pick 6 we will score a lot of points. What was he after, something like 11-15 for 138 yds in one half.
I know its cool to bash bash bash, and I'm not saying DJ is a top 10 QB, but if he plays like he did after the pick-6 that is a top 20 type guy
Thank you…well said….guys don’t want to consider this is his first game action after his injury….he got better as the game went on and like you said, he was pushing the ball downfield, exactly what so many guys here accuse him of not doing…
I know saying "after the pick 6" he was fine is ridiculous, but its still preseason. If DJ plays like he did after the pick 6 we will score a lot of points. What was he after, something like 11-15 for 138 yds in one half.
I know its cool to bash bash bash, and I'm not saying DJ is a top 10 QB, but if he plays like he did after the pick-6 that is a top 20 type guy
So if he plays against backups he’s a top 20 guy?
He was 2-6 against their starters.
Glad your opinion doesn't matter...
I'll suggest again a pinned Jones megathread for us to hash it out, and then enforce topicality in other threads, similar to your stance on the GDT from preseason game 1.
Or create a Jones flair similar to NGT and NFT.
The bad part is he still has the same flaws he always has.
Your opinion should be discarded for bias…
“Same flaws”……nonsense….he was not afraid to air it out and give his WRs a chance…completed many that way too.
No sacks….didnt hood the ball too long.
Second int doesn’t bother me much. A very good CB made a play on ball that wasn’t horrible. It just wasn’t perfect, but I like the aggressive ness. The pic 6 was mind numbing stupid. There were a a couple other poor throws. Also some good ones. Bad game. Move on. Jones is what he is. I think if they can keep attacking down field we can be competitive. But he’s not the long term answer, we’ve known that. (Some of us since he was drafted).
He had some really good throws and a couple ridiculously bad decisions (the check-down when we caught them with the 12th man was so frustrating - he’s done this on a bunch on free plays in the past as well). I’m actually looking forward to seeing an entertaining offense that prioritizes chunk plays.
You’re just as bad as Go Terps but on the opposite end.
My biggest defense of DJ is he played his entire career with by far the worst OL and WR in the NFL. I can’t say that anymore. The OL played well, gave him very good protection. They have young but very talented WR. They’ll be growing pains with wrong routes run and blown assignments but they have a lot of talent.
There’s literally no more excuses. The best thing he did today was stay healthy. There’s nothing he did today that I could defend except being rusty. But still made terrible decisions.
Im not destroying him for his play today but there’s nothing to defend. He was bad.
Off season between Year 1 & 2 have them sign QB to $160M contract that many do not feel he deserved over star RB. QB has poor games again and injuries, so fans want new QB drafted but team is not bad enough to get into the top three picks. Get stud WR1 as result.
Entering Year 3, the team has steadily gotten better but the QB situation still looks like not enough effort has been put in on getting a young, game changing QB. Second pre-season game has fans demanding GM & HC head on a spike.
Future year 4 will have same fans increasing their psychotropic medications to cope. Rinse, Repeat. lol
It is the same old junk as last year with a few breaks, the team could have had 9 wins... or is it 3 wins. IDK
IF he had an OL
IF he had playmakers
IF he didn't get hurt
At some point you have to accept the IFs and realize he's mediocre at best.
You’re just as bad as Go Terps but on the opposite end.
My biggest defense of DJ is he played his entire career with by far the worst OL and WR in the NFL. I can’t say that anymore. The OL played well, gave him very good protection. They have young but very talented WR. They’ll be growing pains with wrong routes run and blown assignments but they have a lot of talent.
There’s literally no more excuses. The best thing he did today was stay healthy. There’s nothing he did today that I could defend except being rusty. But still made terrible decisions.
Im not destroying him for his play today but there’s nothing to defend. He was bad.
“There’s nothing he did today that I can defend…”
That says it all…..stupid comment…..next…..again I ask, when does 12-18 for 170 become bad? Answer me that……and again, I’ve added the 30 yard drop by Nabers on the first series. Too bad he dropped it….to start off 3 and out is not good…had he made that catch on a perfect throw, it’s not 3 and out and Giants in Houston territory, first down.
Okay let me see if you can redeem yourself a bit here…do you agree Nabers dropped that 3rd and 6 pass which killed that drive?
And don’t forget to tell me why you believe 12-18 for 170 is crappy…..Mahomes was 8-14 for 93. Crappy?
And don’t tell me about the pic 6….i conceded that to be ill advised and inexcusable….but I’m not going to make my whole judgment on that one throw.
Maybe we add a new category. FT, NFT, DJT. Then you cab sort by that and ignore the Daniel Jones threads.
We are about to find out how far a good offensive roster can carry the qb
IF he had an OL
IF he had playmakers
IF he didn't get hurt
At some point you have to accept the IFs and realize he's mediocre at best.
That made me laugh...IF King...
If Daboll doesn't play Jones almost 2 qtrs next week, he is stupid.
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What about the underthrow to Hyatt that was picked off?
Barely underthrown….Hyatt really didn’t have separation. At least Jones tried to give his WR a chance to fight for it. My gosh you can’t win with you guys….
“Jones is afraid to throw long, always checks down…”
And then when he does throw long and it gets picked…..”see that pass he (barely) underthrew ? What a bum….”
Always looking to find fault….
As I've said on other threads, I blame Hyatt as much as Jones. He never adjusted to the ball, he just waited for it to fall into his outstretched arms. He could have/should fought for that ball and turned it into incomplete pass.
If Daboll doesn't play Jones almost 2 qtrs next week, he is stupid.
I would be very surprised if Daboll didn’t go at least the first half with Daniel Jones for game 3. He needs the reps. Badly.
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are just pure cringe at this point. And it's ruining the site.
THIS!
LOL. So goal of a discussion site is that everyone should have the same opinion. What can I say other than I agree?
Jones made some mistakes but got better as he got more playing time. I was encouraged with what I saw acknowledging the few bad throws. First game, rusty, geeked up with adrenaline……he stayed healthy and moved around nicely. A lot of great throws trying to push the ball downfield.
The pic in front of Hyatt could have been a longer and higher pass ….not perfect, but I don’t think Hyatt did much to help out. Just like that sideline pass Danny hit him beautifully but he couldn’t get both feet down.
I wonder if anyone is going to find fault with Hyatt like they are Dimes.
Again, Dimes was 11-18 for 138
Nabers dropped a 30 yard pass perfectly thrown
Hyatt was unable to get both feet down on another great pass to the outside.
Fist game back, Dimes could have been 13-18 for close to 200 yards without those two drops/feet down. And of course the 2 pics
I was happy with what I saw save the pic 6. If you aren’t…no big deal….I’m no longer interested in defending this….i don’t care what you think as I’m sure you don’t care what I think. Good night fellows…..
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Dude. Seriously?
Dude, very serious.
When did 12-18 for 170 look bad to you? (Assuming Nabers catches that pass)
When none of the 12 completions were for a TD, but two of the 6 incompletions were INTs including one for an opposing TD.
Could have been 12-18
Now could have been 13-18 for 200 yards
By the end of the night it’ll be he could have have been 17-18 for 350
Jones made some mistakes but got better as he got more playing time. I was encouraged with what I saw acknowledging the few bad throws. First game, rusty, geeked up with adrenaline……he stayed healthy and moved around nicely. A lot of great throws trying to push the ball downfield.
I agree Jones did play better in the second quarter - true. And the throw to Slayton was his highlight of the day.
However, I submit that you need to adjust your view based on Jones's production going up when the Texans went with a mix of their second and third stringers. It's just not a fully credible result.
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the good part is he looked healthy.
The bad part is he still has the same flaws he always has.
Your opinion should be discarded for bias…
“Same flaws”……nonsense….he was not afraid to air it out and give his WRs a chance…completed many that way too.
No sacks….didnt hood the ball too long.
And he certainly held the ball too long on the pick 6 were him taking a sack would have been better outcome.
His biggest flaw is his inability to put points on the board but I guess he did throw a TD for the Texans.
Would love to know what my bias is that discards my opinion.
This. Since 2003 I've been here. The same few people on each side of the Jones debate ruin every thread. . And Somehere act like Evan Neal killed a school bus full of kids. Good luck but after 21 years this type of stuff makes me come heartless and less. Sorry Eric. But not sure what you can do.
I saw none of today’s game so I have nothing to comment on there. However, Jones is not magically going to be a different player this season. He’s likely going to have some decent moments, more terrible moments, he will continue to miss a ton of big plays because he either doesn’t see it or is too shy. And this is all of he manages to stay healthy coming off of 2 neck injuries in the last 3 seasons.
Somehow the Giants only had interest in the unattainable quarterbacks and apparently none in 3 legitimate options that were all taken within the next 6 picks.
Worst quarterback room in the league last season and the grand plan was to swap Tyrod Taylor for shitty Drew Lock.
I keep reading a lot of credit to Schoen for “wanting” Maye or for wanting to retain Taylor. They should be judged not for what they wanted to do but what they actually did, which was take another step back at the position, which for them was hard to do.
I did like however the fade to Nabers. People may say it was off, but he threw it where only he could grab away from the helpside defender.
This type of self imposed curse is going to do a lot of things to the fan base. Apathy, misery, anger, and yes insanity. I assume most people will go through different phases over the many, many years. Some will remove themselves from caring for a while, then maybe snap back into it with a period of anger, then go back to apathy.
I'd guess every fan base would be like this in this situation. Bit we have no way of knowing. Because this never happens.
I saw none of today’s game so I have nothing to comment on there. However, Jones is not magically going to be a different player this season. He’s likely going to have some decent moments, more terrible moments, he will continue to miss a ton of big plays because he either doesn’t see it or is too shy. And this is all of he manages to stay healthy coming off of 2 neck injuries in the last 3 seasons.
Somehow the Giants only had interest in the unattainable quarterbacks and apparently none in 3 legitimate options that were all taken within the next 6 picks.
Worst quarterback room in the league last season and the grand plan was to swap Tyrod Taylor for shitty Drew Lock.
I keep reading a lot of credit to Schoen for “wanting” Maye or for wanting to retain Taylor. They should be judged not for what they wanted to do but what they actually did, which was take another step back at the position, which for them was hard to do.
✅
"They tried to trade up for Maye" is a pretty ridiculous argument. That's like saying "Jones tried to throw the ball to Johnson" on the pick six.
Three years in and the Giants are paying over $50M for Jones/Lock/DeVito. That's it. That's the quality of the work these guys have done here.
I don't doubt that ownership has a lot of blame in this. The modus operandi of the past three years bears a lot of similarity to previous periods. But managing up to stupid owners is an important part of the job if you're the Giants' GM.
I think Minnesota would, for starters
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If they were given that option?
I think Minnesota would, for starters
Probably. So that's 1 out of the 31 other teams. Doubt there are many others.
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If they were given that option?
I think Minnesota would, for starters
Ok, I guess? But only because their talented rookie caught a bad break.
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If they were given that option?
I think Minnesota would, for starters
I’m not so sure about that. They have a QB who is very similar to DJ now
If he were paid properly at like $10M? I think he'd get staring jobs now and then - it's the same as Darnold, Trubisky, Minshew, Brisset, Mariota. Nobody wants to start them, but depending on how the chips fall any given season, some guys of that caliber will start.
If he were paid properly at like $10M? I think he'd get staring jobs now and then - it's the same as Darnold, Trubisky, Minshew, Brisset, Mariota. Nobody wants to start them, but depending on how the chips fall any given season, some guys of that caliber will start.
I think the question was more related to his ability than his contract, seeing that it was in the abstract
The pick 6 was a play rookies know not to make
Massive under throw led to interception on pass to Hyatt. Should have been a TD.
First completion to Nabers was terrible. Late and behind him.
Pass to Gray was late and behind him, causing the incompletion
Enough is enough.
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If they were given that option?
I think Minnesota would, for starters
No they wouldn't. Darnold is Jones's equal, his cap number is $37M lower than Jones's in 2024, and they are not tied to him in any way next year.
If you offered Schoen the opportunity to swap Jones for Darnold today he'd do it without thinking twice.
In less difficult situations against less good players, he looked better.
If not for that Minnesota game, Daniel Jones is Case Keenum.
He stinks.
I think we could still manage to have a decent season if everything goes right ( OL, WR, etc). But let’s just be honest. The man stinks.
"They tried to trade up for Maye" is a pretty ridiculous argument. That's like saying "Jones tried to throw the ball to Johnson" on the pick six.
Agreed.
These quotes from Accorsi and Brandon Beane on trading for franchise QB stand out for me.
ACCORSI:
With a flashback to 20 years ago when the organization traded up to draft Eli Manning at No. 1 overall, former Giants' GM Ernie Accorsi believes that "there's no price too high if you're right, but you better be right."
BEANE:
I know you aren't as fond of Maye as me, but I don't like drawing a line in the sand with the "Manning Deal" as the BAFO.
I'm not suggesting we should have handed over our next five ones, but if you identified your guy (not the guy you inherited) going above the "Manning Deal" and at least making Wolf say no would have been the better way to manage the discussion.
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"They tried to trade up for Maye" is a pretty ridiculous argument. That's like saying "Jones tried to throw the ball to Johnson" on the pick six.
Agreed.
These quotes from Accorsi and Brandon Beane on trading for franchise QB stand out for me.
ACCORSI:
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“You can’t give up too much for John Elway,” Accorsi said. “You can’t overpay [Joe] DiMaggio. If you ever get the chance to get a quarterback you think is great, go get him. "
With a flashback to 20 years ago when the organization traded up to draft Eli Manning at No. 1 overall, former Giants' GM Ernie Accorsi believes that "there's no price too high if you're right, but you better be right."
BEANE:
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"It’s one of those things, if you can get a franchise quarterback and he turns out to be a franchise quarterback, it’d be a good move," Beane said at this year's Combine. "We got criticized a little bit for how much we gave up for Josh and I’m like, ‘Well, if he doesn’t work out, I’m not going to be here anyway. And if he does work out, nobody’s gonna give a sh*t.’"
I know you aren't as fond of Maye as me, but I don't like drawing a line in the sand with the "Manning Deal" as the BAFO.
I'm not suggesting we should have handed over our next five ones, but if you identified your guy (not the guy you inherited) going above the "Manning Deal" and at least making Wolf say no would have been the better way to manage the discussion.
If they had traded the sun, moon, and stars for Maye I would have applauded. The draft picks that we are so in love with are dying on the vine while this franchise does nothing.
Personally I like Penix a lot. But I have no confidence that I'm right. And I have no confidence that professionals are right. The track records speak for themselves. Draft guys. Coach them. Test them. If they're good, keep them. If they're bad, try again.
Personally I like Penix a lot. But I have no confidence that I'm right. And I have no confidence that professionals are right. The track records speak for themselves. Draft guys. Coach them. Test them. If they're good, keep them. If they're bad, try again.
Same here. But trading for Maye was, to me, preferable to taking Nabers. Nothing against Nabers, who is clearly a talent. But so what if there's no one to get him the ball?
And finding talented WRs is as easy as it's ever been. From a team building standpoint it just made no sense.
Well, Schoen could have offered a 2024 first, second, third & 2025 first & third. Give something for Wolf to think on,
The conversation felt like a half measure. Sure, we like Maye. But we won't give up too much. Just go get the guy. Overpay. If he hits, who cares. And Maye looked pretty damn good the other night.
Good luck finding a QB, Joe. It's not easy. Especially when you will probably be picking around 12th to 16th next season. Pay Dak $60M? Not many options.
They were within striking distance of Maye and they didn't get it done.
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He was looking to push it down the field, had a 12 yard run, and had a good 2 minute drill of 7 plays and 68 yds. I don't mind the Hyatt INT because he was going for it. He should have placed it in front rather than try and line drive it in, but I like the fact he was being aggressive.
I know saying "after the pick 6" he was fine is ridiculous, but its still preseason. If DJ plays like he did after the pick 6 we will score a lot of points. What was he after, something like 11-15 for 138 yds in one half.
I know its cool to bash bash bash, and I'm not saying DJ is a top 10 QB, but if he plays like he did after the pick-6 that is a top 20 type guy
So if he plays against backups he’s a top 20 guy?
He was 2-6 against their starters.
Jones got better as the half wore on. The Texans were playing starters and rotating in 2nd stringers like normal. Yo can take the extreme position as you do and say they were only playing backups but it isn't true.
Look I am neutral on DJ, I can see the good and bad unlike many here. The guy was terrible, but then got better and led 2 scoring drives. He did throw some nice passes along with the early crap.
DJ is what we have. I don't see the point of saying Schoen should have done this and should have done that. It about what do we do now, and DeVito is not the answer. DJ needs to get better
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And finding talented WRs is as easy as it's ever been. From a team building standpoint it just made no sense.
Teams are trading 1s or 1+ and then going top of market, which will soon be the second highest paid position after Lamb and Chase get done, to acquire aging true WR1s or ascending borderline WR1s. You can’t acquire these guys in unrestricted free agency and young alpha 1s don’t even flirt with the trade block. You may feel the market is wrong and I would respect your conviction if you thought it was but this isn’t accurate from an objective market-based perspective.
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In comment 16579726 Jerry in_DC said:
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And finding talented WRs is as easy as it's ever been. From a team building standpoint it just made no sense.
Teams are trading 1s or 1+ and then going top of market, which will soon be the second highest paid position after Lamb and Chase get done, to acquire aging true WR1s or ascending borderline WR1s. You can’t acquire these guys in unrestricted free agency and young alpha 1s don’t even flirt with the trade block. You may feel the market is wrong and I would respect your conviction if you thought it was but this isn’t accurate from an objective market-based perspective.
College football is producing WRs at a pace like never before. They're getting easier to find in the draft.
Well, Schoen could have offered a 2024 first, second, third & 2025 first & third. Give something for Wolf to think on,
The conversation felt like a half measure. Sure, we like Maye. But we won't give up too much. Just go get the guy. Overpay. If he hits, who cares. And Maye looked pretty damn good the other night.
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Hey, you're preaching to the choir on this. I've been saying this on the board for a few weeks.
I've been part of negotiations for most of my career. So, I think I know what a serious discussion sounds like if someone presses to close a deal. I didn't hear anything with Schoen that remotely resembled that. He sounded to me like he was checking a box and looking for an off-ramp to move on to something less complicated - just taking a WR.
The pass to Hyatt was a bad underthrow and the CB made a good play on it. This to me was worse than the pick 6.
It wasn’t a great performance. It wasn’t the worst either.
One thing that always seems odd, the Giants never seem to have guys wide open on O or rarely do and other teams seem to have guys wide open all over the field against us.
Judging the whole season on a half of a game is silly.
I am concerned about the CB situation. Banks didn’t look great and lots of open receivers.
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Dude. Seriously?
Dude, very serious.
When did 12-18 for 170 look bad to you? (Assuming Nabers catches that pass)
Did you read my post? Why don’t you take issue with my 6 points? Probably because you know you will get out debated….
Stick to the facts, not opinions…..too many of you guys make that mistake. You need older guys like myself to balance you out and remind you FACTS > Opinions
Can we just STFU about him already until he actually does something worth praising and talking about?
That's fair.
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In comment 16579350 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Dude. Seriously?
Dude, very serious.
When did 12-18 for 170 look bad to you? (Assuming Nabers catches that pass)
Did you read my post? Why don’t you take issue with my 6 points? Probably because you know you will get out debated….
Stick to the facts, not opinions…..too many of you guys make that mistake. You need older guys like myself to balance you out and remind you FACTS > Opinions
Dude, the fact is, he made a rookie mistake in year 6. That pick 6 was bad enough to negate any good, when it comes on top of his history.
Can we just STFU about him already until he actually does something worth praising and talking about?
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In comment 16579453 Dankbeerman said:
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the good part is he looked healthy.
The bad part is he still has the same flaws he always has.
Your opinion should be discarded for bias…
“Same flaws”……nonsense….he was not afraid to air it out and give his WRs a chance…completed many that way too.
No sacks….didnt hood the ball too long.
His flaws are that he makes poor reads and worse adjustments.
And he certainly held the ball too long on the pick 6 were him taking a sack would have been better outcome.
His biggest flaw is his inability to put points on the board but I guess he did throw a TD for the Texans.
Would love to know what my bias is that discards my opinion.
You are not doing the math right for 5Bowls. Let me help you…
1) Daniel Jones is a very good QB. That is a proven fact. No debate.
2) Daniel Jones, with a better supporting cast, would unquestionably be putting up incredible stats and wins.
3) If you think Daniel Jones isn’t a very good QB, you are objectively wrong because you are arguing against known and proven facts.
4) Your opinion doesn’t matter, because it runs counter to the fact that Jones is a very good QB.
This is why your opinion - and the opinion of everyone who questions the ability of Daniel Jones - doesn’t matter at all.
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This is the full conversation between Schoen and Wolf. I'm not sure if this was for the cameras, but Schoen is not nearly aggressive enough. Wolf left the door open by saying "unless".
Well, Schoen could have offered a 2024 first, second, third & 2025 first & third. Give something for Wolf to think on,
The conversation felt like a half measure. Sure, we like Maye. But we won't give up too much. Just go get the guy. Overpay. If he hits, who cares. And Maye looked pretty damn good the other night.
Link - ( New Window )
Hey, you're preaching to the choir on this. I've been saying this on the board for a few weeks.
I've been part of negotiations for most of my career. So, I think I know what a serious discussion sounds like if someone presses to close a deal. I didn't hear anything with Schoen that remotely resembled that. He sounded to me like he was checking a box and looking for an off-ramp to move on to something less complicated - just taking a WR.
This is exactly where I am with Schoen. He tried to trade up, but he didn’t. Everyone thought Evan Neal was a great pick, but he wasn’t. We all know Jones isn’t the answer but he got re-signed anyway.
When is it fair to start judging Schoen on what he accomplished instead of what he almost/tried to accomplish?
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In comment 16579741 Sean said:
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This is the full conversation between Schoen and Wolf. I'm not sure if this was for the cameras, but Schoen is not nearly aggressive enough. Wolf left the door open by saying "unless".
Well, Schoen could have offered a 2024 first, second, third & 2025 first & third. Give something for Wolf to think on,
The conversation felt like a half measure. Sure, we like Maye. But we won't give up too much. Just go get the guy. Overpay. If he hits, who cares. And Maye looked pretty damn good the other night.
Link - ( New Window )
Hey, you're preaching to the choir on this. I've been saying this on the board for a few weeks.
I've been part of negotiations for most of my career. So, I think I know what a serious discussion sounds like if someone presses to close a deal. I didn't hear anything with Schoen that remotely resembled that. He sounded to me like he was checking a box and looking for an off-ramp to move on to something less complicated - just taking a WR.
This is exactly where I am with Schoen. He tried to trade up, but he didn’t. Everyone thought Evan Neal was a great pick, but he wasn’t. We all know Jones isn’t the answer but he got re-signed anyway.
When is it fair to start judging Schoen on what he accomplished instead of what he almost/tried to accomplish?
Thibs was a safe pick. Neal was a safe pick. Nabers was a safe pick. Declining Jones’ option in 2021 was the safe decision. Re-signing Jones after a playoff season was the safest decision.
Letting Barkely walk is the only decision that seemed to me to be not the safe call. Even the Burns trade was a low risk trade given how little they had to give up for him.
I don’t get the feeling Schoen is playing not to lose more than he is playing to win.
I wonder if he has the self awareness to realize that after posting this morning about how he was “wiping the slate clean” with Jones, that he is posting about Jones having a good game despite being objectively awful?
5Bowls - you are seeing what you want to see.
The bar is below the ground.
In less difficult situations against less good players, he looked better.
If not for that Minnesota game, Daniel Jones is Case Keenum.
No, he's not even that accomplished. Case Keenum went 13-3 and a game away from the Superbowl.
Thibs was a safe pick. Neal was a safe pick. Nabers was a safe pick. Declining Jones’ option in 2021 was the safe decision. Re-signing Jones after a playoff season was the safest decision.
Letting Barkely walk is the only decision that seemed to me to be not the safe call. Even the Burns trade was a low risk trade given how little they had to give up for him.
I don’t get the feeling Schoen is playing not to lose more than he is playing to win.
The Giants were willing to upgrade from Jones at their price and their price and only. Unfortunately that’s not how it works.
The worst thing that can happen this year is to be a 7-9 win team. Just go 3-14 at that point.
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Dude. Seriously?
Dude, very serious.
When did 12-18 for 170 look bad to you? (Assuming Nabers catches that pass)
Did you read my post? Why don’t you take issue with my 6 points? Probably because you know you will get out debated….
Stick to the facts, not opinions…..too many of you guys make that mistake. You need older guys like myself to balance you out and remind you FACTS > Opinions
I take issue with the entire premise. He was awful. He threw 2 INTs, one of which-the pick six-was so fucking stupid that I still can't believe he threw that ball. That's a mistake a backup QB in high school makes...not one in his sixth NFL season who is making the coin Jones is making.
'But SFGF, he bounced back afterwards!' Yeah, when the Texans backups were in. Great, can we petition the league to have Jones go up against just second & third stringers?
Listen, I get that you like Jones. That's your prerogative. But don't tell people not to believe their eyes.
He wasn't good yesterday. If you want to chalk it up to rust or nerves or whatever...that's your right. I'll chalk it up to what it probably is: he's just not that good.
You have to evaluate the game, not extract all the mistakes, add some “close calls” back in, and then do the evaluation. You are starting at a conclusion and then working backwards to try and justify it.
One thing that always seems odd, the Giants never seem to have guys wide open on O or rarely do and other teams seem to have guys wide open all over the field against us.
There have been many plays where people are wide open over the years. Jones just doesn't throw it.
Year 6 and DJ put up a performance like this was his first live NFL action...ever. How many DBs on how many teams jump this guy already? Seems like we see it ever week and he gets beat.
Can he go back on PUP if we blame it on the knee?
I agree with this….the Jones haters don’t stop and repeat the same mantra on every thread. We should only be talking about this one game and breaking it down, but for the Jones haters, they have to bring up “we’re doomed…we never should have re-signed him….he can’t see the field….blah, blah, blah….”
As for the site being ruined, I will do my best to avoid threads that veer off to the Jones history and try to find other threads more meaningful and informative to me….like, how did JMS perform….how did the secondary perform…..etc
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are just pure cringe at this point. And it's ruining the site.
I agree with this….the Jones haters don’t stop and repeat the same mantra on every thread. We should only be talking about this one game and breaking it down, but for the Jones haters, they have to bring up “we’re doomed…we never should have re-signed him….he can’t see the field….blah, blah, blah….”
As for the site being ruined, I will do my best to avoid threads that veer off to the Jones history and try to find other threads more meaningful and informative to me….like, how did JMS perform….how did the secondary perform…..etc
You literally started a thread about Jones "looking good" on the same day he threw 2 picks including a pick six in one half of play.
And you're the one trying to find meaningful and informative threads?
Adding more talent isn't going to solidify his place as a Giant, it will be the death knell.
He is quite literally what is keeping the Giants back.
What people do hate is that this organization seems to be wedded to this middling QB like nothing I've ever seen before. I'm in a text thread with some buddies & someone asked me yesterday what year for this is with Jones...when I said 'Six', they responded, 'Wow. That long huh?'
Personally I like Penix a lot. But I have no confidence that I'm right. And I have no confidence that professionals are right. The track records speak for themselves. Draft guys. Coach them. Test them. If they're good, keep them. If they're bad, try again.
+1. In Schoen’s defense, Nabers looks like a gold jacket candidate. Next offseason, I think they sign or trade for an under appreciated vet. It’s 1998.
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tnan give up more than 2 1sts for Maye. Everyone, including professional football people, is terrible at projecting QBs. Just take one that has the right tools, personality, and college performance. Then coach him and try him out.
Personally I like Penix a lot. But I have no confidence that I'm right. And I have no confidence that professionals are right. The track records speak for themselves. Draft guys. Coach them. Test them. If they're good, keep them. If they're bad, try again.
+1. In Schoen’s defense, Nabers looks like a gold jacket candidate. Next offseason, I think they sign or trade for an under appreciated vet. It’s 1998.
I think this is probably correct. Terrible QB play before bringing in Collins to steady the ship. Had a good though roster to get to a SB with him. Realize roster is very good and need to get the real franchise QB in Eli. Whether Schoen and/or Daboll are here for that is anyone's guess at this point.
It's like being in a living room & there's a constant drip from the ceiling & being like, 'Yeah. Nothing to see/think/or worry about!'
Playoffs and competing for the NFC
Deep playoff run.
Division title to secure a home playoff game.
On the other hand, what would the expectations be if Jones was on the Texans?
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In comment 16579376 Eric from BBI said:
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are just pure cringe at this point. And it's ruining the site.
I agree with this….the Jones haters don’t stop and repeat the same mantra on every thread. We should only be talking about this one game and breaking it down, but for the Jones haters, they have to bring up “we’re doomed…we never should have re-signed him….he can’t see the field….blah, blah, blah….”
As for the site being ruined, I will do my best to avoid threads that veer off to the Jones history and try to find other threads more meaningful and informative to me….like, how did JMS perform….how did the secondary perform…..etc
You literally started a thread about Jones "looking good" on the same day he threw 2 picks including a pick six in one half of play.
And you're the one trying to find meaningful and informative threads?
I acknowledged the pic6 was bad…..what more can I say? So then I looked at the other 17 passes and discussed them and gave everyone 6 points to feel good about Jones’ game. Every coin has two sides you know. Why just talk about the bad?
It’s his first game back in 9 months from a brutal injury…I’m sure he was apprehensive to begin with….why can’t you guys cut him some slack? Preseason is to work out the kinks….I’m sure Jones hopefully will not make this same mistake in the regular season. But if you think just because he threw two pics I have no right to look at the other 16 passes, that makes no sense.
Consider this….if AThomas gets beat one time and the QB gets sacked….is that sack the only play we should discuss? Do all the other plays not matter because he let in that one sack? That’s how I feel about Jones’ day….yea, he had a bad pass….its acknowledged….what about the other 17? Let’s discuss…
No, you know, as I know, the guys who cannot and will not wipe his slate clean this year will not be silent…..here comes the same drivel….oh we never should have drafted him….oh we never should have re-signed him…..oh, he can’t see the field fast enough……over and over and over and over…
THIS IS WHAT HURTS THIS SITE. IF I were in Eric’s shoes, I would limit conversation only to the present….and not keeping on harping on the past. What’s done is done….this is our team…
Do you not see a disconnect between what you're saying?
He's a grown ass man who is being paid handsomely. & he sucked yesterday. But we should 'cut him some slack'. Good grief.
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are just pure cringe at this point. And it's ruining the site.
I agree with this….the Jones haters don’t stop and repeat the same mantra on every thread. We should only be talking about this one game and breaking it down, but for the Jones haters, they have to bring up “we’re doomed…we never should have re-signed him….he can’t see the field….blah, blah, blah….”
As for the site being ruined, I will do my best to avoid threads that veer off to the Jones history and try to find other threads more meaningful and informative to me….like, how did JMS perform….how did the secondary perform…..etc
You left off the Jones “lovers.” If you agree both extremes are the problem but only criticize one, it means you are most likely in the other extreme (which you probably believe are rational and reasonable because they think like you do).
I see no point in continually going back 1-3 years and complaining about what the team should have done at the QB position. It has no value and is annoying on a daily basis.
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In comment 16579857 5BowlsSoon said:
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In comment 16579376 Eric from BBI said:
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are just pure cringe at this point. And it's ruining the site.
I agree with this….the Jones haters don’t stop and repeat the same mantra on every thread. We should only be talking about this one game and breaking it down, but for the Jones haters, they have to bring up “we’re doomed…we never should have re-signed him….he can’t see the field….blah, blah, blah….”
As for the site being ruined, I will do my best to avoid threads that veer off to the Jones history and try to find other threads more meaningful and informative to me….like, how did JMS perform….how did the secondary perform…..etc
You literally started a thread about Jones "looking good" on the same day he threw 2 picks including a pick six in one half of play.
And you're the one trying to find meaningful and informative threads?
I acknowledged the pic6 was bad…..what more can I say? So then I looked at the other 17 passes and discussed them and gave everyone 6 points to feel good about Jones’ game. Every coin has two sides you know. Why just talk about the bad?
It’s his first game back in 9 months from a brutal injury…I’m sure he was apprehensive to begin with….why can’t you guys cut him some slack? Preseason is to work out the kinks….I’m sure Jones hopefully will not make this same mistake in the regular season. But if you think just because he threw two pics I have no right to look at the other 16 passes, that makes no sense.
Consider this….if AThomas gets beat one time and the QB gets sacked….is that sack the only play we should discuss? Do all the other plays not matter because he let in that one sack? That’s how I feel about Jones’ day….yea, he had a bad pass….its acknowledged….what about the other 17? Let’s discuss…
No, you know, as I know, the guys who cannot and will not wipe his slate clean this year will not be silent…..here comes the same drivel….oh we never should have drafted him….oh we never should have re-signed him…..oh, he can’t see the field fast enough……over and over and over and over…
THIS IS WHAT HURTS THIS SITE. IF I were in Eric’s shoes, I would limit conversation only to the present….and not keeping on harping on the past. What’s done is done….this is our team…
Go re-read your opening post and highlight all the things you wrote that another poster might consider "the same drivel" as well. The excuses, the blaming of other players, the slack given, and the extremely low bar set by fans on this site regarding DJ and his play/production. The title alone paints a ridiculous perspective.
Sop worrying about what is/is not hurting this site or limiting conversation because it doesn't fit your liking, and start writing better posts.
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In comment 16579376 Eric from BBI said:
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are just pure cringe at this point. And it's ruining the site.
I agree with this….the Jones haters don’t stop and repeat the same mantra on every thread. We should only be talking about this one game and breaking it down, but for the Jones haters, they have to bring up “we’re doomed…we never should have re-signed him….he can’t see the field….blah, blah, blah….”
As for the site being ruined, I will do my best to avoid threads that veer off to the Jones history and try to find other threads more meaningful and informative to me….like, how did JMS perform….how did the secondary perform…..etc
You left off the Jones “lovers.” If you agree both extremes are the problem but only criticize one, it means you are most likely in the other extreme (which you probably believe are rational and reasonable because they think like you do).
Mike, you disappointed me here…I know you are better than that.
You have seen my two threads on give Tommy Cutlets a chance…he can grow to be the man. Does that sound like a Jones lover to you?
Does a lover criticize Jones when criticism is called for? I have done that often in the past.
I have chosen to wipe the slate clean and evaluate Jones only on the present now. This doesn’t make me a lover….this makes me a hopeful Giants fan who is willing to believe until proven differently. It makes following my team more fun for me. If you or anyone else get more pleasure bringing up the past faults over and over, then so be it. We are different people with different objectives of being a fan.
Jones is our QB for now…I will root for him to succeed, not to fail, and I’m not waiting for the chance to pile more dirt on him. But when he makes a mistake, a costly one like the pic6, yeah I will show my disappointment, but I will also give him praise when he deserves that too.
He clearly had plays yesterday worthy of our praise…so I’m doing that. I appreciate how Nabers in the post game only wanted to talk about the first long pass that he missed. Bravo to him for manning up. I’ve not read one guy, besides me, giving praise to Jones for that perfect throw DOWNFIELD….
Nabers caught 4, dropped one….should we just harp on the one drop? In fact, no one here has mentioned it and criticized him for it….but boy, everyone is quick to fault DJ for that one pic6….and some have as well on the 2nd pic. Coach Daboll was not bummed about the 2nd…he gave Stingley props for making a great play rather than throw crap on Jones.
So, Mike, I consider myself definitely not a hater, but also definitely not a lover. I’m just a fan evaluating my players…discussing both the good and the bad with what is happening today….not 3 years ago….not 5 years ago….not even last year…..but today. DJ had 2-3 bad passes yesterday but also had about 13 good ones…didn’t get sacked….and made one good rushing attempt….. that simple. I don’t consider yesterday a failure for a guy who has been out for 9 months recovering from a serious injury in his first game.
I see no point in continually going back 1-3 years and complaining about what the team should have done at the QB position. It has no value and is annoying on a daily basis.
Generally agree. More discussion should be placed on why the QB we started in yesterday's preseason game is QB1 and, quite frankly, still on the roster altogether. DJ arguably has no real value for this team if he cannot even get through 30 minutes of a preseason game without looking like a train-wreck.
This is a complete waste of time and only holding back this team from doing anything this year.
As for Jones, yeah he got better as the game went on. But let's not omit the fact that it was against Houston's backups. That's a pretty big thing to remember.
People are pretty much parked in their Jones camp. There are some-like the OP-who are high on him. There are some who are still TBD about him. There are some who are completely out on him & think we're just spinning our wheels here. I fall in the last camp, but again, I'm just a poster on BBI. Nobody at 1925 Giants Way or whatever the address is GAF about what I think.
He's going to-barring injury-be the starter Week 1. Hope for the best. I'm not terribly optimistic, but who knows? Maybe something clicks with a better OL/weapons like Nabers, Robinson, etc. The only thing I do hope is-that if he struggles-the leash is short.
Daniel Jones is playing in the most prolific era of passing ever and getting to 20 TDS is a struggle.
You may want to start listening to more attorneys and scholars based on this post.
It is honestly Stockholm syndrome @ this point with some people. I will never understand this cult-& it is-around Daniel Jones. I would pay top $ for a class to study it so I could attempt to understand it because I'm repulsed by it yet also fascinated about what these cultists are buying.
You’ve never suited either, clown. And Eli won a Super Bowl in year 4. Super Bowl MVP. Had Daniel Jones accomplished that we wouldn’t be having these discussions. Instead, you and the rest of the fan club continue to act like ‘22 was basically like winning the Super Bowl, maybe even better. It’s embarrassing how far the expectations of this fan base have fallen. Spare us the Eli comps. If the most he had accomplished after 5 years was a single Wild Card win followed by a curb stomping at the hands of the Eagles he’d be catching just as much heat. In fact, I’d argue he DID receive just as much heat even after winning the SB. Stop rewriting history
Daniel Jones is playing in the most prolific era of passing ever and getting to 20 TDS is a struggle.
Exactly. But why should we let facts get in the way? I mean, we never suited up!
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My comments were about the game yesterday and how he performed. Once he settled down I think he was fine (for him). Is he Stroud, Mahomes, Herbert, etc. ? No, of course not and no one thinks that. If he can play like he did after the 1st two drives I think that is the best we can hope for. and hopefully its enough. If he surprises us all and really gets it together, then great.
I see no point in continually going back 1-3 years and complaining about what the team should have done at the QB position. It has no value and is annoying on a daily basis.
Generally agree. More discussion should be placed on why the QB we started in yesterday's preseason game is QB1 and, quite frankly, still on the roster altogether. DJ arguably has no real value for this team if he cannot even get through 30 minutes of a preseason game without looking like a train-wreck.
This is a complete waste of time and only holding back this team from doing anything this year.
I don't see DeVito or Lock being any better. At this point we are where we are, and unless we pick up someone it has to be DJ.
If you want to believe that his stats against Texans backups was more reflective of his ability, fine, go for it, but you at least have to take that into account. If I’m Daboll, I’m having the starters play the 1st next week, not just a series. We need to see if Jones’s play yesterday was merely shaking the rust off, or him playing like he does.
Let’s face it, when asked to throw downfield, he has not been good with the exception of flashes during his rookie year. That was 5 years ago. He plays for a QB guru who runs a very QB-friendly offense. The OL looked very good yesterday (at least in pass pro), he has weapons, there are no more excuses.
Although I doubt that will stop some here from continuing to make them.
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In comment 16579954 PatersonPlank said:
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My comments were about the game yesterday and how he performed. Once he settled down I think he was fine (for him). Is he Stroud, Mahomes, Herbert, etc. ? No, of course not and no one thinks that. If he can play like he did after the 1st two drives I think that is the best we can hope for. and hopefully its enough. If he surprises us all and really gets it together, then great.
I see no point in continually going back 1-3 years and complaining about what the team should have done at the QB position. It has no value and is annoying on a daily basis.
Generally agree. More discussion should be placed on why the QB we started in yesterday's preseason game is QB1 and, quite frankly, still on the roster altogether. DJ arguably has no real value for this team if he cannot even get through 30 minutes of a preseason game without looking like a train-wreck.
This is a complete waste of time and only holding back this team from doing anything this year.
I don't see DeVito or Lock being any better. At this point we are where we are, and unless we pick up someone it has to be DJ.
They might not be better players, but at least they don't have an injury guarantee for $23 million (nearly 9% of the teams total cap) next year
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In comment 16579954 PatersonPlank said:
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My comments were about the game yesterday and how he performed. Once he settled down I think he was fine (for him). Is he Stroud, Mahomes, Herbert, etc. ? No, of course not and no one thinks that. If he can play like he did after the 1st two drives I think that is the best we can hope for. and hopefully its enough. If he surprises us all and really gets it together, then great.
I see no point in continually going back 1-3 years and complaining about what the team should have done at the QB position. It has no value and is annoying on a daily basis.
Generally agree. More discussion should be placed on why the QB we started in yesterday's preseason game is QB1 and, quite frankly, still on the roster altogether. DJ arguably has no real value for this team if he cannot even get through 30 minutes of a preseason game without looking like a train-wreck.
This is a complete waste of time and only holding back this team from doing anything this year.
I don't see DeVito or Lock being any better. At this point we are where we are, and unless we pick up someone it has to be DJ.
Lock isn't better and a known quantity. DeVito may not be good but he isn't worse than Jones either and is still an unknown quantity.
So let DeVito try and be QB1, or go make a deal for another QB out there If there is no one or Schoen is unwilling to try then refer back to my last comment above... "This is a complete waste of time and only holding back this team from doing anything this year."
There is no such upside there with Jones. He locks on to receivers, even before the snap, going back to his college days. It's a severely limiting flaw that you can only hide behind a scheme for so long.
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In comment 16579954 PatersonPlank said:
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My comments were about the game yesterday and how he performed. Once he settled down I think he was fine (for him). Is he Stroud, Mahomes, Herbert, etc. ? No, of course not and no one thinks that. If he can play like he did after the 1st two drives I think that is the best we can hope for. and hopefully its enough. If he surprises us all and really gets it together, then great.
I see no point in continually going back 1-3 years and complaining about what the team should have done at the QB position. It has no value and is annoying on a daily basis.
Generally agree. More discussion should be placed on why the QB we started in yesterday's preseason game is QB1 and, quite frankly, still on the roster altogether. DJ arguably has no real value for this team if he cannot even get through 30 minutes of a preseason game without looking like a train-wreck.
This is a complete waste of time and only holding back this team from doing anything this year.
I don't see DeVito or Lock being any better. At this point we are where we are, and unless we pick up someone it has to be DJ.
Its really silly to make determinations on devito, who has played less than a season, but we need to see more from jones after 65 games.
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He did not look good. He looked like he normally looks.
That said, it's his first game action in 9 months or so. Hopefully, he takes a long look at that beard and switches it to a mustache.
Again, when does 12-18 for 170 become bad? (Adding in Nabers drop)
It wasn’t a drop. Stingley was holding his left arm, so Nabers had to try to make a one handed catch. That is a very tough catch for any WR. So if the ref had called a PI like he should have, that wouldn’t be tacked on to Jone’s totals.
Besides drops happen, just like bad passes to open WR’s happen. You don’t get to tack them on randomly.
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In comment 16579392 DavidinBMNY said:
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He did not look good. He looked like he normally looks.
That said, it's his first game action in 9 months or so. Hopefully, he takes a long look at that beard and switches it to a mustache.
Again, when does 12-18 for 170 become bad? (Adding in Nabers drop)
It wasn’t a drop. Stingley was holding his left arm, so Nabers had to try to make a one handed catch. That is a very tough catch for any WR. So if the ref had called a PI like he should have, that wouldn’t be tacked on to Jone’s totals.
Besides drops happen, just like bad passes to open WR’s happen. You don’t get to tack them on randomly.
And I will add one more thing, if you’re going to add Nabers drop to Jones’s stats, but not the dropped pick, you are simply not being honest with yourself. You don’t get to have it both ways.
Don’t want to denigrate a postseason win, but long term…I suspect it did more harm than good.
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In comment 16579975 nygiantfan said:
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In comment 16579954 PatersonPlank said:
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My comments were about the game yesterday and how he performed. Once he settled down I think he was fine (for him). Is he Stroud, Mahomes, Herbert, etc. ? No, of course not and no one thinks that. If he can play like he did after the 1st two drives I think that is the best we can hope for. and hopefully its enough. If he surprises us all and really gets it together, then great.
I see no point in continually going back 1-3 years and complaining about what the team should have done at the QB position. It has no value and is annoying on a daily basis.
Generally agree. More discussion should be placed on why the QB we started in yesterday's preseason game is QB1 and, quite frankly, still on the roster altogether. DJ arguably has no real value for this team if he cannot even get through 30 minutes of a preseason game without looking like a train-wreck.
This is a complete waste of time and only holding back this team from doing anything this year.
I don't see DeVito or Lock being any better. At this point we are where we are, and unless we pick up someone it has to be DJ.
Its really silly to make determinations on devito, who has played less than a season, but we need to see more from jones after 65 games.
I don't think anyone says they need to see more from DJ. I think its clear what he is. Personally I don't think DeVito is any good either, but if Daboll thinks so then he should play him. I just want the team to win. I no longer care either way about DJ, he's made his bed at this point. Frankly I would like to see us trade for a good QB if one could be shaken loose, because I don't think we have any good QBs on the roster.
At least 10 wins, probably in the mix for the NFCE title. The only real weakness on the team other than QB is CB. Stroud is fucking amazing, he may be the best QB not named Pat Mahomes.
No less on a thread he started! LOL, you can’t make this shit up.
I would like to see DeVito get a quarter with the 1s next week
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In comment 16579434 5BowlsSoon said:
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In comment 16579392 DavidinBMNY said:
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He did not look good. He looked like he normally looks.
That said, it's his first game action in 9 months or so. Hopefully, he takes a long look at that beard and switches it to a mustache.
Again, when does 12-18 for 170 become bad? (Adding in Nabers drop)
It wasn’t a drop. Stingley was holding his left arm, so Nabers had to try to make a one handed catch. That is a very tough catch for any WR. So if the ref had called a PI like he should have, that wouldn’t be tacked on to Jone’s totals.
Besides drops happen, just like bad passes to open WR’s happen. You don’t get to tack them on randomly.
And I will add one more thing, if you’re going to add Nabers drop to Jones’s stats, but not the dropped pick, you are simply not being honest with yourself. You don’t get to have it both ways.
I didn’t see the whole game….streaming on iPad and I had a bunch of relatives over….i missed the dropped Pic you are referencing. I will watch the game on NFL Network tonight when it comes on. But I agree with you…if he threw one that should have been picked…that should be included when analyzing stats.
This type of self imposed curse is going to do a lot of things to the fan base. Apathy, misery, anger, and yes insanity. I assume most people will go through different phases over the many, many years. Some will remove themselves from caring for a while, then maybe snap back into it with a period of anger, then go back to apathy.
I'd guess every fan base would be like this in this situation. Bit we have no way of knowing. Because this never happens.
Outstanding post Jerry. OUTSTANDING!
I really want to see him with the varsity. Daboll should give him a half with most of the starters.
74 of Daniel Jones 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Mike Ford who was undrafted in 2018
−25 of his 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Kris Boyd, a 7th rd draft pick from 2019
74 of Daniel Jones 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Mike Ford who was undrafted in 2018
−25 of his 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Kris Boyd, a 7th rd draft pick from 2019
Such a good stat. Well done.
74 of Daniel Jones 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Mike Ford who was undrafted in 2018
−25 of his 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Kris Boyd, a 7th rd draft pick from 2019
So he only had 39 yards in the air vs. starters? Yeah. That feels me with optimism!!!!
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Extreme about the backups:
74 of Daniel Jones 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Mike Ford who was undrafted in 2018
−25 of his 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Kris Boyd, a 7th rd draft pick from 2019
So he only had 39 yards in the air vs. starters? Yeah. That feels me with optimism!!!!
No, he had 4 yds v the starters. The other 35 were against DB’s at a level slightly above journeyman.
74 of Daniel Jones 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Mike Ford who was undrafted in 2018
−25 of his 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Kris Boyd, a 7th rd draft pick from 2019
Those aren't "little stats". They are facts that tell a story about Jones's output.
It's telling they make you uncomfortable.
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In comment 16580130 ajr2456 said:
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Extreme about the backups:
74 of Daniel Jones 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Mike Ford who was undrafted in 2018
−25 of his 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Kris Boyd, a 7th rd draft pick from 2019
So he only had 39 yards in the air vs. starters? Yeah. That feels me with optimism!!!!
No, he had 4 yds v the starters. The other 35 were against DB’s at a level slightly above journeyman.
Is that 4 yards gross or net of the interception return yards going the other way?
The OP lectures us to be accurate with our comments.
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Extreme about the backups:
74 of Daniel Jones 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Mike Ford who was undrafted in 2018
−25 of his 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Kris Boyd, a 7th rd draft pick from 2019
Yes, let's dig up every little stat we can to shit on Jobes some more. You people are insuffarable. Deal with it, Jones is the starter because DeVito and Lock are simply not better players. It's not hard to figure out.
And you're a sham.
Haha. 'Please ignore your eyes & stats. Thank you.'
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In comment 16580150 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 16580130 ajr2456 said:
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Extreme about the backups:
74 of Daniel Jones 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Mike Ford who was undrafted in 2018
−25 of his 138 yards were targeting 3rd string CB Kris Boyd, a 7th rd draft pick from 2019
So he only had 39 yards in the air vs. starters? Yeah. That feels me with optimism!!!!
No, he had 4 yds v the starters. The other 35 were against DB’s at a level slightly above journeyman.
Is that 4 yards gross or net of the interception return yards going the other way?
The OP lectures us to be accurate with our comments.
Gross, he had 2 completions for a total of 4 yards.
If you were a "real fan", you would have said that Ford and Boyd are really good players, and they probably could start for a lot of teams.
I thought Eric made a great point - if the Giants had drafted a QB we might be talking about him getting some time with the starters. How would we all be feeling about this season if that were the situation?
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Listen to sy on the BBI podcast. He's spot on.
I thought Eric made a great point - if the Giants had drafted a QB we might be talking about him getting some time with the starters. How would we all be feeling about this season if that were the situation?
And John said how it's not overreacting to one play, or one half, but it's a pattern of play and bad decisions from Jones.
Exactly. This has been set up for Jones not to be challenged.
Well first, of course I am going to have to deal with it, since I don't have a say in the matter.
Also, yay. The Giants have such a bad situation at quarterback, the very average at best Jones is their best bet. Excellent.
Exactly. This has been set up for Jones not to be challenged.
There's no short leash or contingency. These boners believe they can make magic with Jones.
The only alternative in their mind was a top 3 blue chip prospect in a great year for quarterbacks.
They could have just signed Minshew to the contract he got this offseason and had a real competition
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They’d have brought in real competition. I fear they’ll start him until they’re officially out of playoff contention
Exactly. This has been set up for Jones not to be challenged.
There's no short leash or contingency. These boners believe they can make magic with Jones.
The only alternative in their mind was a top 3 blue chip prospect in a great year for quarterbacks.
Just so depressing.
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They’d have brought in real competition. I fear they’ll start him until they’re officially out of playoff contention
Exactly. This has been set up for Jones not to be challenged.
There's no short leash or contingency. These boners believe they can make magic with Jones.
The only alternative in their mind was a top 3 blue chip prospect in a great year for quarterbacks.
Eh I don't think BD will stick with Jones if he continues to play like he did Saturday
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That people will often see what they want to see.
I wonder if he has the self awareness to realize that after posting this morning about how he was “wiping the slate clean” with Jones, that he is posting about Jones having a good game despite being objectively awful?
5Bowls - you are seeing what you want to see.
Seeing what he wants to see makes him different from anyone else here how, exactly? Daniel Jones is a Rorschach test .
Daniel Jones is not a Rorschach test. Daniel Jones is a football intelligence test. The supermajority of fans, coaches, players, and execs from the other 31 NFL teams think he is bad. Most Giants fans think he is bad. Reading between the lines, a decent amount of people working with the Giants recognize what he is, but obviously need to publicly support the QB1, and I don't begrudge those people. It seems like the owner and a few others may be living in a fantasy land, but even that can only continue for so long.
The question to me is, why do so many people--almost all Giants fans--feel the need to prop up Jones when it is clear he's not a good NFL QB? Is it because it's a sunk cost of time spent rooting/arguing for him? The belief that in another situation, his career could have turned out differently? The resemblance to Eli in superficial characteristics? The fact that he is, indeed, a nice, hard-working fellow?
John Madden used to say the Giants have the smartest fan base, but there is now no way you can maintain that position given what's gone on with Daniel Jones.
Imagine a very realistic world where they franchise Jones for 2023. Minshew could have been had for 2024 and 2025, and the Giants would still be ahead 15M.
Horrible decisions on first two passes.
Off target interception on deep shot that required a perfect throw.
Several nice tight window throws.
A nice scramble.
General observation - Big Picture
I was worried that he might have QB-PTSD
I think he had a bit of that. The result is some good and some bad. Certainly not good enough.
Simms said he thinks DJ's internal clock needs to slow down
He thinks it will once he becomes more confident in his line and that takes some time.
The Giants will be fine if that happens. It will be a problem if it does not happen.
Net opinion/conclusion.
Most encouraged by play of OL. Let's see if DJ is able to take full advantage. The jury is still out. A good case for optimism (Thx OP) and also a good case for pessimism. I remain optimistic.
They could have just signed Minshew to the contract he got this offseason and had a real competition
Speaking of the Raiders, did you see any of that Dallas/Raiders game last night?
Trey Lance looked pretty good both throwing and running. There is some talent there as a dual threat.
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If they move on from Daniel Jones, they’re probably signing someone like Minshew next year anyway.
They could have just signed Minshew to the contract he got this offseason and had a real competition
Speaking of the Raiders, did you see any of that Dallas/Raiders game last night?
Trey Lance looked pretty good both throwing and running. There is some talent there as a dual threat.
I just don’t think Lance ever puts his talent together
They could have just signed Minshew to the contract he got this offseason and had a real competition
I wonder if trading for Aidan O’Connell might be something Schoen considers.
The reaction when you inform non-Giants fans that there is a sizable contingent of Giants fans who still believe in Daniel Jones.... It might be one of my best conversation topics for new people I meet who are football fans.
Also, did the OP actually ask Eric to start censoring topics of conversation related to Daniel Jones?
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If they move on from Daniel Jones, they’re probably signing someone like Minshew next year anyway.
They could have just signed Minshew to the contract he got this offseason and had a real competition
I wonder if trading for Aidan O’Connell might be something Schoen considers.
I think they should see if Cleveland would give up one of Jameis, DTR or Huntley
Does Jones give you any of chance of that?
They should have drafted or signed real QB competition and make Jones actually win the job. Fields, Wilson, Minshew etc.
They desperately need better QB play to win but they also need it to develop this young team.
Hypothetical: If a QB has success v backups, does this negate the success of his Oline,WR's,RB's ???
Can't take him seriously.
Probably some quid pro quo from Jints Central.
Here's a material raise. And would you mind being more pro-organization moving forward...
@CarlBanksGIII
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48m
##newpod >Daniel Jones Didn't Fall Apart. #tellafriendtotellafriend
Beyond embarrassing. I can't wait until their podcast in October: 'Daniel Jones' Problems Are Due to Lack of Fan Support.'
Saint Daniel is beyond reproach.
I so wish we could get the real scoop on what went down the '23 offseason with Jones & the contract. I'm more & more convinced a certain idiot with the initials JM made his feelings widely known.
@CarlBanksGIII
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48m
##newpod >Daniel Jones Didn't Fall Apart. #tellafriendtotellafriend
Beyond embarrassing. I can't wait until their podcast in October: 'Daniel Jones' Problems Are Due to Lack of Fan Support.'
A poster had me cracking up yesterday when he called Jones the "If King".
If Jones only had X. If X didn't happen to Jones. Etc.
Carl Banks and many others are caught up in that modus operandi.
They'd rather go through the effort of parading around pro-Giants people/media to act like Jones is a good QB and they are giving him chances for valid reasons then actually getting a QB people beyond their circle have nice things to say about.
That is everything you need to know about their seriuosness about winning.
Papa - ( New Window )
'If _____ makes that catch, Jones throws for 180 yards.'
If _______ makes that block, Jones goes for 25 yards.'
If, if, if. It's beyond embarrassing @ this point.
Carl was awarded the Giants Way Scholarship and a hefty NIL deal from the Tisch family.
Papa - ( New Window )
I'll say it...is Papa drunk?
The Jones Excuse Machine in Full Bloom... - ( New Window )
In comment 16580430 bw in dc said:
In comment 16580430 bw in dc said:
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is unbelievable. Just listen to the first ten minutes. The Jones Excuse Machine in Full Bloom... - ( New Window )
Banks says the first INT is inexcusable. Most people with a pulse agree.
But he ostensibly blames the near first INT by Stingley - first play of the game - more on Nabers.
He says the second INT was a combination of "the other teams get paid to make plays too" and "Jones almost made a terrific throw...and gets credit for looking off the safety..."
And he gives Jones a lot of credit for bouncing back and really discounts the fact Jones's production was against corners who are second and third stringers.
What a putz.
But they love dunking on fans so they'll probably have plenty of material this fall.
Sure, he threw another pick. Got lucky his first pass of the day wasn't picked. Then he looked good vs. Texans backups.
The Giants radio crew are an absolute embarrassment.
Banks talks about Jones like he's a rookie. It's surreal.
I've lost so much respect for Banks. He's become a company man. Parroting what Johnny wants to be said.
But they love dunking on fans so they'll probably have plenty of material this fall.
They've become insufferable as if the fans should be grateful for the great Giants football we've been given the last 10 years. Bunch of dopes.
Jones was regularly off target throwing to Barkley on that same damn play. Nice try, Carl
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Carl Banks
@CarlBanksGIII
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48m
##newpod >Daniel Jones Didn't Fall Apart. #tellafriendtotellafriend
Beyond embarrassing. I can't wait until their podcast in October: 'Daniel Jones' Problems Are Due to Lack of Fan Support.'
A poster had me cracking up yesterday when he called Jones the "If King".
If Jones only had X. If X didn't happen to Jones. Etc.
I should trademark it and sell t-shirts. I think what a lot of people miss is the difference between greatness and mediocrity are the IFs. If you can't consistently perform at a high level you are mediocre.
I don't think I've ever seen a player in the NFL where people latch onto a few good performances and then qualify the shit out of it to justify his potential/place on the roster.
It feels like even when he's off the roster and we find QB success people will be like, "IF Daniel Jones had this type of roster, he'd be good..."
This organization isn't turning over every stone to try to win.
This organization isn't turning over every stone to try to win.
Yes and far too many involved heavily in the team are extremely defensive of criticism. Papa, Banks, Dottino, GiantsInsider, Hanlon. To the point they are debating the fans on twitter.
This is a franchise that is 4-26 against Dallas & Philly since the 2017 season.
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In comment 16580401 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Carl Banks
@CarlBanksGIII
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48m
##newpod >Daniel Jones Didn't Fall Apart. #tellafriendtotellafriend
Beyond embarrassing. I can't wait until their podcast in October: 'Daniel Jones' Problems Are Due to Lack of Fan Support.'
A poster had me cracking up yesterday when he called Jones the "If King".
If Jones only had X. If X didn't happen to Jones. Etc.
I should trademark it and sell t-shirts. I think what a lot of people miss is the difference between greatness and mediocrity are the IFs. If you can't consistently perform at a high level you are mediocre.
I don't think I've ever seen a player in the NFL where people latch onto a few good performances and then qualify the shit out of it to justify his potential/place on the roster.
It feels like even when he's off the roster and we find QB success people will be like, "IF Daniel Jones had this type of roster, he'd be good..."
Oh I fully believe that even if he's backing up Baker Mayfield in Tampa next year, there's a contingent who will continue to say he'd have been a star here with the improved roster.
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throw to Gray in the redzone to rust and he was used to having Barkley there.
Jones was regularly off target throwing to Barkley on that same damn play. Nice try, Carl
Agreed. Or Barkley would have bounced the ball up into the air and it would be going the other way in a hurry (see Dallas game).
Yes and far too many involved heavily in the team are extremely defensive of criticism. Papa, Banks, Dottino, GiantsInsider, Hanlon. To the point they are debating the fans on twitter.
Spot on. Take the high road, ignore the fans, and act like a professional.
Instead, it's just hugely embarrassing.
Daniel Jones — Terrible start, much more promising finish for Jones in his half of work vs. the Texans. The pick 6 by Jones was terrible, hesitant quarterback play. Throw ... the ... ball away! I will give him a little rope, though, because it was the first time he was about to be hit since tearing his ACL. Not giving him an excuse, but it is still something to work through. The second interception was a great play by a great player, Derek Stingley Jr.
After that, Jones made some nice throws and helped the Giants get 10 points. Loved seeing the deep ball to Slayton and the adjustment to making some back shoulder throws.
You obviously can’t have the quarterback give the opposition seven points, but this was a starting point for Jones.
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Can you summarize so I don't have to? What is the latest excuse.
In comment 16580430 bw in dc said:
Quote:
is unbelievable. Just listen to the first ten minutes. The Jones Excuse Machine in Full Bloom... - ( New Window )
Banks says the first INT is inexcusable. Most people with a pulse agree.
But he ostensibly blames the near first INT by Stingley - first play of the game - more on Nabers.
He says the second INT was a combination of "the other teams get paid to make plays too" and "Jones almost made a terrific throw...and gets credit for looking off the safety..."
And he gives Jones a lot of credit for bouncing back and really discounts the fact Jones's production was against corners who are second and third stringers.
Not for nothing, but the HOU announcers blamed the near INT on Nabors, too.
The condescension made sense when we were winning rings.
We are one of the worst teams in the league this past decade. You'd think there would be some level of embarrassment. Instead, we get arrogance.
I could have done just as badly as they have running the team the past decade. And I would have been cheaper.
Granted some of those things are true and there have been plenty of bad players on the team. But if you're going to be a Homer, be pro Giants. Not just pro Daniel. It's really kind of gross. And I have to imagine that guys in the locker room notice.
I've lost so much respect for Banks. He's become a company man. Parroting what Johnny wants to be said.
It’s sad because he’s certainly one of this franchises best players.
Granted some of those things are true and there have been plenty of bad players on the team. But if you're going to be a Homer, be pro Giants. Not just pro Daniel. It's really kind of gross. And I have to imagine that guys in the locker room notice.
+1. Those players aren’t getting paid $40mm annually either. This is terrible.
He knows the game and often has good points. The Baghdad Bob routine has to stop.
When your QB throws two picks in the first quarter - one a pick six - simply because he panicked, you are probably going to lose that game. Does some nice throws later in the second that netted us a field goal even the scales? For most, absolutely not. For you, it seems every play is the same. A pick six is a poor play, a 12 yard completion on 3rd and 8 offset it. I don’t understand it, but you are entitled to your opinion.
Maybe you’ve had a chance to watch the game recap video from Eric, John and Sy. How they talk about Jones is where I am. He is not the worst QB in the world. But he is making the same mistakes he has made his whole career, and they are mistakes that lose winnable games. I am tired of watching this team struggle through season after season because Jones’ individual success seems to be as important if not more important than team success.
You took the “haters” to task when Eric said both extremes are annoying. Why didn’t you take both sides to task? Why didn’t you take the “Jones Lovers” to task? It’s because you can’t see your own bias. I know mine and I admit it. You ought to try it too.
When your QB throws two picks in the first quarter - one a pick six - simply because he panicked, you are probably going to lose that game. Does some nice throws later in the second that netted us a field goal even the scales? For most, absolutely not. For you, it seems every play is the same. A pick six is a poor play, a 12 yard completion on 3rd and 8 offset it. I don’t understand it, but you are entitled to your opinion.
Maybe you’ve had a chance to watch the game recap video from Eric, John and Sy. How they talk about Jones is where I am. He is not the worst QB in the world. But he is making the same mistakes he has made his whole career, and they are mistakes that lose winnable games. I am tired of watching this team struggle through season after season because Jones’ individual success seems to be as important if not more important than team success.
You took the “haters” to task when Eric said both extremes are annoying. Why didn’t you take both sides to task? Why didn’t you take the “Jones Lovers” to task? It’s because you can’t see your own bias. I know mine and I admit it. You ought to try it too.
Good post, Mike. Jones would (will) be a solid backup, but as a starter, he is a bottom-tier QB. Sure, you can win a few games when everything goes right, but that isn’t sustainable. You need a QB who can make plays when things are going wrong.
Here's a quote from David Te's scouting report
And here's a quote from the game review by Sy, after a week 8 loss to KC in 2021
...
The interception just 2 plays after the Mahomes interception was an absolute killer. He gave up his intended passing target immediately post snap without checking off the linebacker.
Message to DJ - ( New Window )
I have a feeling if you put guys like Lawrence on truth serum, they probably have a different three word message for Jones, as in ‘Play fucking better.’
What did Papa and Banks say that you found controversial? I am genuinely curious.
Watching that play, it seemed to me that Hyatt just stood there and watched the INT. I thought he should have been fighting for that 50-50 ball.
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What about the underthrow to Hyatt that was picked off?
Watching that play, it seemed to me that Hyatt just stood there and watched the INT. I thought he should have been fighting for that 50-50 ball.
It’s amazing to me that it’s always someone else’s fault.
The organization, its employees and the Jones fans have no problem denigrating any other player on the team. But Saint Daniel does nothing wrong.
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Like it or not, you are our guy this year….take these words to heart Daniel… Message to DJ - ( New Window )
I have a feeling if you put guys like Lawrence on truth serum, they probably have a different three word message for Jones, as in ‘Play fucking better.’
Spoke to three players at camp that off the record said they preffered one of the backup QB options.
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In comment 16580719 5BowlsSoon said:
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Like it or not, you are our guy this year….take these words to heart Daniel… Message to DJ - ( New Window )
I have a feeling if you put guys like Lawrence on truth serum, they probably have a different three word message for Jones, as in ‘Play fucking better.’
Spoke to three players at camp that off the record said they preffered one of the backup QB options.
That's kind of big news