I probably knew this at one point -- the Giants spent 1 week in Gettleman's entire tenure with a .500 record and zero weeks with a winning record? Week of September 30th 2019, the Giants were 2-2. Is this true?
I know that’s true. 18 started off 0 and 100. 2020 started off 0 and 100. 21 was even worse. There was the brief flirtation with fun times when nyg got to 5-7 in 2020 but then they lost 1-3 down the stretch.
That would be shocking in illustrating how much Gettleman sucked. He is easily in the top 3 worst front office employees in Giants history. I don’t even think that is debatable.
You will never convince me that Dave Gettleman was not a close Eagles fan who spent his whole career trying to end up where he did to destroy the Giants. I am sure he is sitting at home right now in a Brian Dawkins jersey laughing his ass off that Barkley is an Eagle.
That would be shocking in illustrating how much Gettleman sucked. He is easily in the top 3 worst front office employees in Giants history. I don’t even think that is debatable.
You will never convince me that Dave Gettleman was not a close Eagles fan who spent his whole career trying to end up where he did to destroy the Giants. I am sure he is sitting at home right now in a Brian Dawkins jersey laughing his ass off that Barkley is an Eagle.
What I find interesting about the Gettleman disaster is how Accorsi seems to have escaped criticism.
He was THE guy Mara hired to find the next GM after Reese, and then spent all of ten minutes identifying and recommending Gettleman. A recommendation, btw, largely based on the fact he felt guilty about supporting Reese over Gettleman as his successor after he retired in 2006.
It's easy to blame Mara, but Accorsi has always had Mara's confidence because he was fully vested in the "Giants Way". He trusted him like Don Corleone trusted Tom Hagen.
That would be shocking in illustrating how much Gettleman sucked. He is easily in the top 3 worst front office employees in Giants history. I don’t even think that is debatable.
You will never convince me that Dave Gettleman was not a close Eagles fan who spent his whole career trying to end up where he did to destroy the Giants. I am sure he is sitting at home right now in a Brian Dawkins jersey laughing his ass off that Barkley is an Eagle.
What I find interesting about the Gettleman disaster is how Accorsi seems to have escaped criticism.
He was THE guy Mara hired to find the next GM after Reese, and then spent all of ten minutes identifying and recommending Gettleman. A recommendation, btw, largely based on the fact he felt guilty about supporting Reese over Gettleman as his successor after he retired in 2006.
It's easy to blame Mara, but Accorsi has always had Mara's confidence because he was fully vested in the "Giants Way". He trusted him like Don Corleone trusted Tom Hagen.
John Mara asked Accorsi to conduct a GM search that would identify the best ex-Giants employee named Dave Gettleman to fill the role. That was not a search, it was a corronation.
And the guy wasn’t just bad at his job…he was an arrogant asshole. It is embarrassing that the Giants have to admit they gave him money and put him in front of TV cameras.
That would be shocking in illustrating how much Gettleman sucked. He is easily in the top 3 worst front office employees in Giants history. I don’t even think that is debatable.
You will never convince me that Dave Gettleman was not a close Eagles fan who spent his whole career trying to end up where he did to destroy the Giants. I am sure he is sitting at home right now in a Brian Dawkins jersey laughing his ass off that Barkley is an Eagle.
What I find interesting about the Gettleman disaster is how Accorsi seems to have escaped criticism.
He was THE guy Mara hired to find the next GM after Reese, and then spent all of ten minutes identifying and recommending Gettleman. A recommendation, btw, largely based on the fact he felt guilty about supporting Reese over Gettleman as his successor after he retired in 2006.
It's easy to blame Mara, but Accorsi has always had Mara's confidence because he was fully vested in the "Giants Way". He trusted him like Don Corleone trusted Tom Hagen.
John Mara asked Accorsi to conduct a GM search that would identify the best ex-Giants employee named Dave Gettleman to fill the role. That was not a search, it was a corronation.
And the guy wasn’t just bad at his job…he was an arrogant asshole. It is embarrassing that the Giants have to admit they gave him money and put him in front of TV cameras.
This 1000%. Businesses do this all the time: hire a consultant to come to a conclusion that management already decided. And then management can act like they weren’t biased, there wasn’t cronyism, etc.
We were in trouble with his first free signing a washed up Jonathan Steward The whole league knew he was done xcept dg Then throwing millions at Solder Golliday & Patrick O & Mara just goes along smiling & signing checks & let’s not forget gift wrapping Parsons to Dallas. Dg worst GM ever & Mara does he ever do his own research on players it seems like he doesn’t Add up the dg screwups easily over 100 million wasted .
That is so bad. These are the starts to the season under Gettleman:
2018: 0-2 which became 1-7
2019: 0-2 which became 2-2 then became 2-11
2020: 0-5
2021: 0-3 which became 1-5
You'd think after 2021 Schoen would move off of Jones. But what happened? Mara is telling reporters they've done everything to screw Jones up before Schoen can even sit at his desk.
Still, Schoen declines the 5th year option. Then they have a little bit of success, win a playoff game and all of John Mara, Chris Mara & Steve Tisch are acting as if they've won the Super Bowl. Jones is declared their "franchise QB".
What a fucking mess. This is a very difficult franchise to be GM. And Gettleman dealt with it too I'm sure.
All to say, Gettleman was that bad but we continued the path beyond his tenure here.
you see people that love to place heaps of blame on DG or Reese. But the Giants have struggled with the same core problems, self scouting, overrating their own players as well as overrating the teams performance which makes them unwilling to rebuild in the optimal ways other teams do.
The only difference is BD was a good enough coach to create a scheme that worked on a temporary basis and/or against bad defenses. But the Giants overall talent level came back to the surface. Sad thing is I think we may have the talent to be a real team this year at all but the most important position so we probably won’t get a real read on that.
Ruined this franchise. Set them back YEARS. We are still suffering from his awful decisions.
And on top of that the guy was an asshole. Can’t believe Mara had him ride off into the sunset with honoring him the last home game he was here.
This team was dog doo doo well before he arrived. Years before. He walked in a year after the previous regime passed on an All Pro LT because they wanted to pander to Ereck Flowers' feelings.
may have felt he picked the wrong guy to replace Him. Let's face it, Reese is grossly over rated and then he hired and promoted twice one of the worst employees in Marc Ross.
Dave did a pretty solid job in Carolina. Team did get to the SB and he added a bunch of good players that included several PB/AP players.
He also added the first AP OL with the Giants going all the way back to Snee in 2004.
Like Dave, Reese inherited most of the team. Even the QB/HC. JR had Eli/TC. Dave Cam/Rivera.
After his first two years as GM here, I don't think he had a lot of say as Mara was clearly going with Judge.
…instead of being escorted out of the building holding a box of his belongings, he was allowed a nice little farewell
Unlike Jerry Reese, who agreed to a QB plan with Mara, executed it and was fired for it when some fans were upset. Spare me the stuff about John Mara being a “good guy.” He’s a moron, a nepo baby and a cowardly twerp.
…instead of being escorted out of the building holding a box of his belongings, he was allowed a nice little farewell
Unlike Jerry Reese, who agreed to a QB plan with Mara, executed it and was fired for it when some fans were upset. Spare me the stuff about John Mara being a “good guy.” He’s a moron, a nepo baby and a cowardly twerp.
Mara was deeply fixated with being the good guy and there being a warm and fuzzy transition out for his favorites. And that desire for things to go smoothly backfired every time.
The Coughlin retiring charade, the working in the back up quarterbacks, giving Gettleman a swing after he picked Reese first. All of it was so contrived and predictable.
…instead of being escorted out of the building holding a box of his belongings, he was allowed a nice little farewell
Unlike Jerry Reese, who agreed to a QB plan with Mara, executed it and was fired for it when some fans were upset. Spare me the stuff about John Mara being a “good guy.” He’s a moron, a nepo baby and a cowardly twerp.
Mara was deeply fixated with being the good guy and there being a warm and fuzzy transition out for his favorites. And that desire for things to go smoothly backfired every time.
The Coughlin retiring charade, the working in the back up quarterbacks, giving Gettleman a swing after he picked Reese first. All of it was so contrived and predictable.
I think this is very accurate. And one of the hallmarks of John Mara causing this franchise to go down the toilet. You can draw a straight line to Mara falling back on what he 'knew' with Gettleman and also the Giants selecting Daniel Jones because they 'knew' David Cutcliffe because of Eli. John Mara goes to what feels comfortable and familiar. Its part of the reason the Jones pick makes me so mad. I'm convinced that if Cutcliffe wasn't connected to Jones, he wouldnt have been the pick.
I think this is very accurate. And one of the hallmarks of John Mara causing this franchise to go down the toilet. You can draw a straight line to Mara falling back on what he 'knew' with Gettleman and also the Giants selecting Daniel Jones because they 'knew' David Cutcliffe because of Eli. John Mara goes to what feels comfortable and familiar. Its part of the reason the Jones pick makes me so mad. I'm convinced that if Cutcliffe wasn't connected to Jones, he wouldnt have been the pick.
I've heard directly and indirectly from people who know John Mara that's he's both an incredibly sincere and caring person, but also cares very deeply what people think of him.
I think his father instilled a deep concern for the players and staff, that doesn't help when it's time to make tough decisions.
I think this is very accurate. And one of the hallmarks of John Mara causing this franchise to go down the toilet. You can draw a straight line to Mara falling back on what he 'knew' with Gettleman and also the Giants selecting Daniel Jones because they 'knew' David Cutcliffe because of Eli. John Mara goes to what feels comfortable and familiar. Its part of the reason the Jones pick makes me so mad. I'm convinced that if Cutcliffe wasn't connected to Jones, he wouldnt have been the pick.
I've heard directly and indirectly from people who know John Mara that's he's both an incredibly sincere and caring person, but also cares very deeply what people think of him.
I think his father instilled a deep concern for the players and staff, that doesn't help when it's time to make tough decisions.
If he cares so much about people, you’d think that would extend to Reese, who was intimately involved in securing the team their last two rings. So he’s inconsistent. Daniel Jones is in; Reese is out.
Mara can’t retire soon enough. I hope Kate Mara is the next CEO of the team. At least it would make the annual Press conferences more watchable..
2019 was Gettleman’s high water mark. Jones’ first season, Eli’s last
If he cares so much about people, you’d think that would extend to Reese, who was intimately involved in securing the team their last two rings. So he’s inconsistent. Daniel Jones is in; Reese is out.
Mara can’t retire soon enough. I hope Kate Mara is the next CEO of the team. At least it would make the annual Press conferences more watchable.
My guess is Jerry Reese is not a terribly likable person. And I also suspect after the Manning crying incident, Reese is probably the only person who told Mara "you're the one who fucking wanted this."
Mara clearly picked Manning over Reese in that moment.
Did you get any joy from the 2011 Giants? That was such a fun season for me being a fan of the team. Watching Eli throw to Nicks, Cruz & Manningham. The most explosive Giants offense I've ever seen. Contributions from Bradshaw and Jacobs. JPP wrecking havoc on defense.
The way you talk about Reese, I get the sense you didn't enjoy that season and run all that much.
RE: 2019 was Gettleman’s high water mark. Jones’ first season, Eli’s last
If Shurmur had remained but as offensive coordinator, even if Judge had become Head Coach, Jones would have had a better career.
I think if Shurmur had stayed on as head coach, Jones would have had bigger numbers, but ultimately resembled a player like Jameis Winston. Big numbers but too many turnovers to justify investment.
I think this list captures Rabbit Foot Dave at his finest. Link - ( New Window )
Damn what a horrible offseason. Nate Solder did Patrick Omameh a huge favor. I had forgotten how bad that signing was
Gettleman also let some solid players walk. Okwara, Kennard, Pugh, and Richburg all had some good football left in them to various degrees. And the crowing achievement was trading JPP for the pick that became BJ Hill. And then trading BJ Hill for Billy Price.
but I also think the Giants missed a great opportunity in future years with the TC/Eli combo.
Reese inherited the entire OL. He never added an OL in the draft from rounds 1-3 from 2007-2012.
I think any smart GM who understood Eli's skillset would have made a huge priority keeping the OL to a high standard. Philly/Dallas each had three AP/PB OL in 2017. The last PB OL Eli had was Snee in 2012.
RE: He made up for it by being an enormous asshole
+1,000,000. And not just in connection with football.
It still amazes me that anyone lumps Jerry Reese together with Gettleman. Reese made some decisions that were hard to defend contemporaneously, and many that were defensible at the time but turned out poorly. In a bottom-line business, he won two Super Bowls in eleven years as GM, with a roster he helped Ernie Accorsi build through the draft. That's a decent record no matter how badly his last five years sucked. Although Reese could be prickly and defensive, he was mostly respectful toward the press and the fans, and appreciative of all the organization had given him. Even the decision that got him fired doesn't look so bad now that Geno Smith is a solid NFL starter and Eli Manning has been out of the League for five years.
As for Gettleman, well... he drafted Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence and, um... Darius Slayton? And if we go back to 2005, he played some role in several good UFA signings.
BBB, I think in retrospect it's quite obvious the Giants had a number of very good football people at the right jobs during the championship years.
Reese made a number of prescient and gutsy moves that worked out. Gettleman led a pro personnel team that hit on virtually every UFA. And Coughlin and the staff developed a number of mid-to-late round talents.
I think this list captures Rabbit Foot Dave at his finest. Link - ( New Window )
Damn what a horrible offseason. Nate Solder did Patrick Omameh a huge favor. I had forgotten how bad that signing was
Gettleman also let some solid players walk. Okwara, Kennard, Pugh, and Richburg all had some good football left in them to various degrees. And the crowing achievement was trading JPP for the pick that became BJ Hill. And then trading BJ Hill for Billy Price.
I also forgot about the BJ Hill thing. The layers of suck with him are just too grand.
Do you think he's sitting there seeing BJ Hill play well and contend at the end of the season and admitted to himself he fucked up?
Or is he like "Don't worry Dave, you are smarter than everyone else. Billy Price is going to the Pro Bowl next year!!"
I was fine with the DG hire at the time--it looked like he got shafted in Carolina--but it was obvious very quickly that he was going to be a disaster. The Ogletree trade in March of that year was a huge red flag. Then the Solder signing and the Barkley pick made me realize the house was on fire.
My favorite was people defending him because he 'recognized his mistakes quickly' after he inevitably cut somebody terrible that he signed.
"You miss on a quarterback, it's a five year mistake"
I still can't get past the way DG waltzed out of here with impunity. Fans and the media didnt get to hold him responsible or accountable for all his abysmal decisions.
Mara allowed it to happen which is a direct reflection on his lack of leadership and own decision-making.
But the biggest story of the decline of the Giants was crippling long term injuries. Some careers were cut short early in their primes. Many ended during their primes. These are off the top of my head, so they might not be exact
Nicks done at 25
Cruz done at 27
JPP was all-world at 23 and the back injury limited his ascent
Chad Jones never played
Tuck was done at 30
Snee was done at 30
Webster was done at 30
Steve Smith was done at 24
Phillips was done at 25
Baas was done at 30
There's probably a few more
We got very few extended primes and loads and loads of talent that was completely cooked by their mid 20s. There were plenty of bad decisions made but Its just hard to survive that kind of talent drain.
What I found so dismaying is how good of a pro personnel lead he was as a Giant, and then how bad the UFAs went when he was GM. He had Midas Touch under Accorsi and Reese.
I was fine with the DG hire at the time--it looked like he got shafted in Carolina--but it was obvious very quickly that he was going to be a disaster. The Ogletree trade in March of that year was a huge red flag. Then the Solder signing and the Barkley pick made me realize the house was on fire.
My favorite was people defending him because he 'recognized his mistakes quickly' after he inevitably cut somebody terrible that he signed.
There were a lot of posters here who refused to ever admit DG was a disaster. No matter how many mistakes he made and how bad the team got, it was always just part of the plan that we were all too dumb to understand.
But the biggest story of the decline of the Giants was crippling long term injuries. Some careers were cut short early in their primes. Many ended during their primes. These are off the top of my head, so they might not be exact
Nicks done at 25
Cruz done at 27
JPP was all-world at 23 and the back injury limited his ascent
Chad Jones never played
Tuck was done at 30
Snee was done at 30
Webster was done at 30
Steve Smith was done at 24
Phillips was done at 25
Baas was done at 30
There's probably a few more
We got very few extended primes and loads and loads of talent that was completely cooked by their mid 20s. There were plenty of bad decisions made but Its just hard to survive that kind of talent drain.
I've been saying this for years too. Reese got insanely unlucky. Kelce just retired after an All Pro season at 36 but we couldn't even get average play from Snee past 30.
Nicks was a heart-breaker. If he had a 7 year prime, we might take Martin over Odell.
Reese made a number of errors, but to hit home runs the on 2008 and 2009 first rounders and basically get nothing from them starting in 2013 just sucks.
I'll add his shameless play of the Jesus Card in Carolina...
...conveniently forgotten when he returned to Jersey where it wouldn't have gone over as well, and replaced by having his surrogates play the Cancer Card for sympathy when the team was sucking under Shurmur and it was clear that heads would roll.
I was fine with the DG hire at the time--it looked like he got shafted in Carolina--but it was obvious very quickly that he was going to be a disaster. The Ogletree trade in March of that year was a huge red flag. Then the Solder signing and the Barkley pick made me realize the house was on fire.
My favorite was people defending him because he 'recognized his mistakes quickly' after he inevitably cut somebody terrible that he signed.
There were a lot of posters here who refused to ever admit DG was a disaster. No matter how many mistakes he made and how bad the team got, it was always just part of the plan that we were all too dumb to understand.
At the risk of defaming the departed, this is a classic. Link - ( New Window )
But the biggest story of the decline of the Giants was crippling long term injuries.
No one wants to hear it because "Everyone has injuries!", but it's not an excuse when most of your best players have career ending injuries, or severely limiting injuries, in their 20s. In addition to your list, there was Terrell Thomas (career basically over at 25). Jonathan Goff got the starting MLB job in 2010 at age 25, played a very nice season....and never played again after blowing out his knee. There was Jake Ballard, who came from out of nowhere to have an excellent rookie season as a UDFA in 2011 only to blow out his knee in the Super Bowl, ending his career.
None of the Giants' good OL had long careers by OL standards. McKenzie retired at 32 and had been significantly declining for several years prior. Seubert retired at 31. Jason Peters is actually older than Snee and played LAST SEASON, a full decade after Snee retired.
So yeah, everyone deals with injuries, but for years not only did the Giants' best players get injured, but most of them either never played again or had diminished, truncated careers. Once they got hurt, that was mostly it, and that was brutal to overcome.
"You miss on a quarterback, it's a five year mistake"
The other very mysterious thing that happened during the end of the Reese years is the inability to develop any offensive lineman.
Let's say for argument's sake Pugh, Richburg, and Flowers were all over drafted by a full round. Wouldn't you expect some of the 2nd and 3rd round talent to be developed by the staff?
But the biggest story of the decline of the Giants was crippling long term injuries. Some careers were cut short early in their primes. Many ended during their primes. These are off the top of my head, so they might not be exact
Nicks done at 25
Cruz done at 27
JPP was all-world at 23 and the back injury limited his ascent
Chad Jones never played
Tuck was done at 30
Snee was done at 30
Webster was done at 30
Steve Smith was done at 24
Phillips was done at 25
Baas was done at 30
There's probably a few more
We got very few extended primes and loads and loads of talent that was completely cooked by their mid 20s. There were plenty of bad decisions made but Its just hard to survive that kind of talent drain.
Agree Nicks was a devastating injury. Snee and Tuck breaking down should not really be a surprise considering how they played imv. Tuck entered the league already having a significant injury which is why he fell in the draft.
I was fine with the DG hire at the time--it looked like he got shafted in Carolina--but it was obvious very quickly that he was going to be a disaster. The Ogletree trade in March of that year was a huge red flag. Then the Solder signing and the Barkley pick made me realize the house was on fire.
My favorite was people defending him because he 'recognized his mistakes quickly' after he inevitably cut somebody terrible that he signed.
There were a lot of posters here who refused to ever admit DG was a disaster. No matter how many mistakes he made and how bad the team got, it was always just part of the plan that we were all too dumb to understand.
At the risk of defaming the departed, this is a classic. Link - ( New Window )
This is what makes BBI a special place. There is no escaping the historic receipts!
Gettleman has been a disaster
Go Terps : 9/17/2018 2:42 pm : link
We're caught in a limbo where we are non-competitive now, but aren't really building anything for the future either. We've invested a blue chip pick in a running back, and have huge money tied up in a wide receiver. Those are the types of moves we killed Reese for, but Reese isn't here to kick around anymore. And within a year or two there's a good chance that we'll be overextending for a QB prospect when we could have just sat tight and had him.
Gettleman has been a disaster
Go Terps : 9/17/2018 2:42 pm : link
We're caught in a limbo where we are non-competitive now, but aren't really building anything for the future either. We've invested a blue chip pick in a running back, and have huge money tied up in a wide receiver. Those are the types of moves we killed Reese for, but Reese isn't here to kick around anymore. And within a year or two there's a good chance that we'll be overextending for a QB prospect when we could have just sat tight and had him.
Nicks, Cruz, Smith, and Beckham all had significant injuries that derailed their careers before the age of 27.
The Giants were hitting home run after home run drafting WRs, and didn't get 4 healthy years out of any of them.
Hell even Manningham too, he had the injury bug as well.
It's really ridiculous in hindsight. I think the Giants left a ring on the table in 2012. If Nicks and Bellinger are healthy Giants, I think they compete for the Super Bowl that year.
Nicks, Cruz, Smith, and Beckham all had significant injuries that derailed their careers before the age of 27.
The Giants were hitting home run after home run drafting WRs, and didn't get 4 healthy years out of any of them.
Hell even Manningham too, he had the injury bug as well.
It's really ridiculous in hindsight. I think the Giants left a ring on the table in 2012. If Nicks and Bellinger are healthy Giants, I think they compete for the Super Bowl that year.
Gettleman has been a disaster
Go Terps : 9/17/2018 2:42 pm : link
We're caught in a limbo where we are non-competitive now, but aren't really building anything for the future either. We've invested a blue chip pick in a running back, and have huge money tied up in a wide receiver. Those are the types of moves we killed Reese for, but Reese isn't here to kick around anymore. And within a year or two there's a good chance that we'll be overextending for a QB prospect when we could have just sat tight and had him.
It's just been a disaster.
Link - ( New Window )
One need only read that thread to know that "trust the process" and "trust the experts" require healthy doses of skeptical, independent and objective reality. I still believe your Lamar Jackson call was the best prognostication I have seen in my seven years of following BBI. And how different the world would be today for Giants fans had Gettleman been similarly prescient.
was a good enough team to compete for the playoffs. Chances of that D rising again to the level it did the year before were unrealistic.
2011 was a very flawed team. What it did establish was the brilliance of both TC and Eli.
Mara chose Reese over TC. He gave in to Tisch. Moving on from TC started all the way back at the end of 2010. The drafts, SB clock, Jernigan comments, Gilbride, etc. all confirm it.
RE: Yes. I find..
bw in dc : 9/18/2018 12:14 am : link
In comment 14082101 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Circumstantial evidence my ass. Giants ownership doesn't give directives to preserve a player's legacy. In your fucked up world, ownership hires a GM and a new coach with the explicit instructions to keep the QB around, even if it is detrimental to the team. To "bow to the House Of Manning". They then build around the QB to make sure he's here for several more years and give him a shiny new RB to go with a top WR.
Unfortunately you are deep in denial. Let me help once again...
It was reported in Newsday after the Benchgate that Mara and Eli had a "very emotional talk" and Mara didn't want Eli to "go out like this". And he was basically heartbroken when Eli started to break down on TV after the benching was announced. Mara then said he wanted Eli to retire as a Giant and Eli wanted the same thing. So...
A few days later McAdoo is the made the scapegoat and fired. And a few days later Reese is fired to round out the house clean. Both are easy targets.
Then suddenly Accorsi is back in the picture. Do you think that's just coincidence? He drafted Eli. And then he strongly recommends that Gettleman, who was there when Eli was drafted, as the GM. Do you think that's just another coincidence?
The next shoe drops - Shurmur becomes the HC lead candidate. Why? He just brought Case Keenum back from the QB graveyard. Perfect. Maybe he can do the same resuscitate Eli.
Shortly thereafter it is plastered all over the media that everyone has watched all this video and Eli still has plenty in the tank. Mara is ecstatic. Just what he wants to hear...Is that just pure coincidence? Hell, no. That is everyone falling in line.
Then the plan is hatched - rebuild the oline, improve at RB, and lock down OBJ (which got bumpy when the grainy video surfaced). And let's see if we can add some pieces on D.
Now Eli is set to - on paper - with a better team offensively.
I actually get why Mara did this. He feels a big debt of gratitude towards Eli. As I've said in the past, that's human nature. Mara isn't coldblooded to simply severe ties after such a catastrophe with the benching...
But I think it's the wrong plan; and a reflection of an organization that made decisions based on emotion and not good football reasoning.
IF the rumors are true about Reece and McAdoo wanting to move on from Eli - they got he perfect guy for puppet masters of Jints Central to run things from behind the scenes.
The organization has changed in some respects - credit to them. But some those insider Jints Cetral guys are still there.
was a good enough team to compete for the playoffs. Chances of that D rising again to the level it did the year before were unrealistic.
2011 was a very flawed team. What it did establish was the brilliance of both TC and Eli.
Mara chose Reese over TC. He gave in to Tisch. Moving on from TC started all the way back at the end of 2010. The drafts, SB clock, Jernigan comments, Gilbride, etc. all confirm it.
And so it goes for St. Tommy. As always, all of thr credit for winning and none of the responsibility for losing.
The process that led to DG was a joke, with EA all but doing a solid for his old buddy and convincing Mara-who is an idiot-that Dave was the right man for the job. Dave then watches one meaningless game vs. the Eagles where Eli played well and said, ‘Eli still has it!’
There are so many aspects of the Gettleman era that drive me up the wall, but the one that takes the cake is him PUBLICLY saying he wouldn’t trade out of 2nd pick in ‘18 no matter what. When I first saw that, I thought it was satire.
Gettleman has been a disaster
Go Terps : 9/17/2018 2:42 pm : link
We're caught in a limbo where we are non-competitive now, but aren't really building anything for the future either. We've invested a blue chip pick in a running back, and have huge money tied up in a wide receiver. Those are the types of moves we killed Reese for, but Reese isn't here to kick around anymore. And within a year or two there's a good chance that we'll be overextending for a QB prospect when we could have just sat tight and had him.
It's just been a disaster.
Link - ( New Window )
You catch a lot of grief here but I'm on board with a lot of what you have to say.
Mara chose Reese over TC. He gave in to Tisch. Moving on from TC started all the way back at the end of 2010. The drafts, SB clock, Jernigan comments, Gilbride, etc. all confirm it.
Exactly. And if people want to blame TC for the personnel side, then why the hell was Reese the GM at all? Reese could not effectively replace the Accorsi holdovers. When they aged out, it was lights out. Gilbride was scapegoated. End of story.
The 2012 Giants defense that was ranked 12th in scoring didn't need to rise any levels like the 25th ranked 2011 defense did.
Coughlin and Manning put it perfectly after they lost to the eventual Super Bowl champs, and effectively took themselves out of the playoffs.
Quote:
"I feel badly for everyone in that locker room because they can't turn this thing around either," Coughlin said. "What has happened over the course of the last couple of weeks is very difficult to explain. We just don't look like a well-oiled machine offensively at all."
Said Manning: "We knew we had to play our best football at the end of the season to get into the playoffs, and we haven't done that. When you're not playing your best, teams can come out and embarrass you."
100%. Dave just little to turn it around and the franchise needed so much talent at that time.
Christine would have earned more credibility with the thread acknowledging the difficult circumstances Dave stepped into. That is not her style though.
100%. Dave just little to turn it around and the franchise needed so much talent at that time.
Christine would have earned more credibility with the thread acknowledging the difficult circumstances Dave stepped into. That is not her style though.
Pretty much every GM inherits difficult circumstances. Outside of retirement situations like the Giants with Reese or the Ravens with DeCosta, there is an opening because the team has sucked.
I think your point is a fair one. I have no problem with Dave receiving criticism.
In addition to have to fixing so many talent issues on the team, Dave also had to work with an Eli mandate. I don't think there is any chance that Ernie told Mara, "let's have Dave determine what happens with Eli." The decision was made before Dave imv and I think it was the right one.
I think your point is a fair one. I have no problem with Dave receiving criticism.
In addition to have to fixing so many talent issues on the team, Dave also had to work with an Eli mandate. I don't think there is any chance that Ernie told Mara, "let's have Dave determine what happens with Eli." The decision was made before Dave imv and I think it was the right one.
I would have drafted Allen in '18.
The Eli "mandate" was clear as day to everyone well before Gettleman was hired. If he didn't like the limitations of the job, the simplest thing would have been to take himself out of the running.
Imagine being in your late 60s and taking a job that gives you no control over the most important position in sports.
So yeah, either Gettleman agreed with the decision that had been made about Eli, or he's a spineless dipshit.
According to FatMan, Gettleman was fired in Carolina for not playing favorites with Richardson's sacred cow players. And his unwillingness to be pushed into personnel decisions ended his time there.
I think it's pretty silly to believe Gettleman then decided to go to New York and have the most important player predetermined against his will.
but I also think the Giants missed a great opportunity in future years with the TC/Eli combo.
Reese inherited the entire OL. He never added an OL in the draft from rounds 1-3 from 2007-2012.
He drafted Will Beatty in the 2nd round of the 2009 draft. But he was a reach, injury prone and mentally soft. So of course Reese gave him a second contract, lol.
A shame how this organization treated/treats Jerry Reese. Has he ever been back to the facilities? A 2 time SB winning GM and it's like he never existed.
According to FatMan, Gettleman was fired in Carolina for not playing favorites with Richardson's sacred cow players. And his unwillingness to be pushed into personnel decisions ended his time there.
I think it's pretty silly to believe Gettleman then decided to go to New York and have the most important player predetermined against his will.
The fan fiction is scraping the barrel now.
Really...
I mean - DG was not the brightest bulb in the box, but you don't think he was capable of learning the very valuable lesson of listening to your superiors or it will cost you your job in the NFL?
You don't think he figured out - hey man - the owners are really calling the shots on some things in this league - not the GM?
Dude was out of work on his last leg - you don't think he was willing to tell Jints Central whatever they wanted to hear to have Big Blue take him back?
I think Dave Gettleman was 67 years old, and a pretty proud guy, when the Giants hired him.
As described above pretty well, he was either on board or a total wimp. I don't have much love for Dave Gettleman, but I don't think he was the latter.
I think Dave Gettleman was 67 years old, and a pretty proud guy, when the Giants hired him.
As described above pretty well, he was either on board or a total wimp. I don't have much love for Dave Gettleman, but I don't think he was the latter.
If he was so proud he wouldn't of went out like a wimp - which is exactly what happened.
His Carolina exit was a show. He left NY without so much as a whisper. He was a total cuck for the franchise he loved so much.
because he signaled to Mara a willingness to build around Jones and Barkley, just like Gettleman likely got the job by signaling a desire to build around Eli. If we've learned anything in the last few years, it's that Mara meddles far more than he would admit in public and his sentimental caveats have hampered any true rebuilding effort.
RE: On a tangent, I think Schoen probably got the job
because he signaled to Mara a willingness to build around Jones and Barkley, just like Gettleman likely got the job by signaling a desire to build around Eli. If we've learned anything in the last few years, it's that Mara meddles far more than he would admit in public and his sentimental caveats have hampered any true rebuilding effort.
I would totally buy this - EXCEPT - Schoen and Co. first order of business was to pass on DJ's 5th year option.
It's the main reason I can't buy this line of thinking b/c the rest of their actions make so much more sense if this were a given.
The way I see it, the guys that got screwed were McAdoo and Reese. They wanted to play basketball on grass with Patrick Mahomes. Instead we're now trying to play basketball on grass with Daniel Jones.
The way I see it, the guys that got screwed were McAdoo and Reese. They wanted to play basketball on grass with Patrick Mahomes. Instead we're now trying to play basketball on grass with Daniel Jones.
They were absolutely the fall guys in the tangled web Mara wove.
Mara specifically asked each to collaborate and draw up a plan to sit Eli. They obliged. Apparently, Mara had second thoughts when he was out of town, but never got back to them to give them different direction.
So, McAdoo and Reese executed the plan.
But then fans and media revolted when they saw Eli breakdown. And Mara could not handle that. His palpitations kicked in. And Reese and McAdoo were fed to the lions.
evaluated Eli and concluded he was just fine. It just so happened to be what the other morons in the front office wanted to hear. So off they went making other moronic decisions like Solder, drafting Saquon, etc.
The way I see it, the guys that got screwed were McAdoo and Reese. They wanted to play basketball on grass with Patrick Mahomes. Instead we're now trying to play basketball on grass with Daniel Jones.
Totally agreed.
They weren’t without faults - but they were the scapegoats for sure.
They were absolutely the fall guys in the tangled web Mara wove.
Mara specifically asked each to collaborate and draw up a plan to sit Eli. They obliged. Apparently, Mara had second thoughts when he was out of town, but never got back to them to give them different direction.
So, McAdoo and Reese executed the plan.
But then fans and media revolted when they saw Eli breakdown. And Mara could not handle that. His palpitations kicked in. And Reese and McAdoo were fed to the lions.
2018 Out of the league
2019 Out of the league
2020 Quarterbacks Coach, Jaguars
2021 Consultant, Cowboys
2022 OC, Panthers (20th points, 29th yards)
2023 Out of the League
2024 Senior offensive assistant, Patriots
Giants missed on Norwall and everyone thought he was coming here b/c of the Carolina connection. They let Pugh walk to Arizona and then signed Solder, who was the top LT available. Classic Giants, guy plays well for previous team then sucks in blue. Same thing happened with Zeitler and the Beckham trade. Guy was an all pro guard and sucked here, moves on to Baltimore and returns to form
Giants missed on Norwall and everyone thought he was coming here b/c of the Carolina connection. They let Pugh walk to Arizona and then signed Solder, who was the top LT available. Classic Giants, guy plays well for previous team then sucks in blue. Same thing happened with Zeitler and the Beckham trade. Guy was an all pro guard and sucked here, moves on to Baltimore and returns to form
Zeitler didnt suck here, he just couldnt carry a shit unit.
They botched the cap so bad they couldnt afford to keep him.
2018 Out of the league
2019 Out of the league
2020 Quarterbacks Coach, Jaguars
2021 Consultant, Cowboys
2022 OC, Panthers (20th points, 29th yards)
2023 Out of the League
2024 Senior offensive assistant, Patriots
That's the one that got away?
I wouldn't discount Mara's ability to make it hard for someone to get a job after they leave the Giants.
That became a bit of BBI conventional wisdom and I have no idea why. He made a single Pro Bowl prior to coming to the Giants, that’s it. For whatever reason, people here starting calling him an All-Pro.
That would be shocking in illustrating how much Gettleman sucked. He is easily in the top 3 worst front office employees in Giants history. I don’t even think that is debatable.
He was also a total asshole and treated other in the building like shit.
I once pressed my Fatfriend why he defended Gettleman so ferociously.
If I recall, FMiC is pretty good friends with Brandon Beane, GM/Bills. And I recall FMiC saying he did some work with the Panthers (tech stuff...maybe?). So, he met Gettleman either through Beane or during the work he did.
Since Beane was under Gettleman at Carolina, my guess is Beane is very fond of him and that has influenced FMiC's POV.
Maybe FMiC will make a cameo and give us his reasons.
It is okay to express almost any NYG football opinion to a
reasonable degree. Back it up with empirical data, well-thought out views, historical trends and analytics, or even simply a good old-fashioned hunch.
But if you supported Dave Gettleman and his GM decisions after more than just a few months on the job, I don't know what to tell you other than you are a moron.
I will always, repeat...always, miss his press conferences though. They were simply "must-see-tv". Easily the most entertaining part of NY Giants football since 2012, on or off the field.
The way I see it, the guys that got screwed were McAdoo and Reese. They wanted to play basketball on grass with Patrick Mahomes. Instead we're now trying to play basketball on grass with Daniel Jones.
They were absolutely the fall guys in the tangled web Mara wove.
Mara specifically asked each to collaborate and draw up a plan to sit Eli. They obliged. Apparently, Mara had second thoughts when he was out of town, but never got back to them to give them different direction.
So, McAdoo and Reese executed the plan.
But then fans and media revolted when they saw Eli breakdown. And Mara could not handle that. His palpitations kicked in. And Reese and McAdoo were fed to the lions.
One of Mara's more cowardly moments...
What’s odd is that those 2 never resurrected anywhere else.
This thread is depressing
RE: RE: For some reason people don't want to hear it
But the biggest story of the decline of the Giants was crippling long term injuries. Some careers were cut short early in their primes. Many ended during their primes. These are off the top of my head, so they might not be exact
Nicks done at 25
Cruz done at 27
JPP was all-world at 23 and the back injury limited his ascent
Chad Jones never played
Tuck was done at 30
Snee was done at 30
Webster was done at 30
Steve Smith was done at 24
Phillips was done at 25
Baas was done at 30
There's probably a few more
We got very few extended primes and loads and loads of talent that was completely cooked by their mid 20s. There were plenty of bad decisions made but Its just hard to survive that kind of talent drain.
I've been saying this for years too. Reese got insanely unlucky. Kelce just retired after an All Pro season at 36 but we couldn't even get average play from Snee past 30.
Nicks was a heart-breaker. If he had a 7 year prime, we might take Martin over Odell.
Reese made a number of errors, but to hit home runs the on 2008 and 2009 first rounders and basically get nothing from them starting in 2013 just sucks.
I've said this before but if Nicks and Cruz hadn't had their careers derailed, we almost certainly would've drafted Donald or Martin instead of Beckham.
We were in trouble with his first free signing a washed up Jonathan Steward The whole league knew he was done xcept dg Then throwing millions at Solder Golliday & Patrick O & Mara just goes along smiling & signing checks & let’s not forget gift wrapping Parsons to Dallas. Dg worst GM ever & Mara does he ever do his own research on players it seems like he doesn’t Add up the dg screwups easily over 100 million wasted .
Don't forget trading JPP who may still be an active player, for some scrub named Alec Olgletree. Who lasted, what a few years with us then washed out of the league.
Despite the NYG ties, I thought he would come in and operate in a ruthless way. Get the cap in order and be financially disciplined. He was that way in Carolina. It was not the case here. They tried to retool on the fly and win with Eli.
All you had to do was read the 1st press conference
to realize the guy was dumb, had zero understanding of modern football, extremely arrogant with zero interest in learning anything new, and extremely lazy and unprepared (i.e., he only watched 1 Giants game before his "interview").
It's all in there. And if you didn't get it there, the post draft press conference should have been an immediate firing.
Before a game was played, it was obvious we had zero chance to be successful with Gettleman. Most GMs are kind of the same these days. Gettleman was an outlier - much much dumber, less curious, archaic, lazy, arrogant than anyone else.
The Giants with Gettleman was like sitting at the toughest poker game in tbe world as a guy who doesn't know if 3 of a kind beats 2 pair. We had no chance.
People sometimes rhetorically ask "do you think you could do a better job" than a coach or a GM. In this case the answer is yes. I could personally find hundreds of people who could do a better job than Gettleman. You could walk into any office building in America and find dozens of people who could do a better job. They wouldn't know as much about football, but in terms of leadership, intelligence, decision making, how to run an organization, how to deal with people, strategic thinking - they are standard deviations better than Gettleman. He was a complete abomination in every way. The fact that the Giants hired him and employed him for 4 years shows that they were both dumb and not serious about winning. And that's hard to deal with as a fan.
RE: All you had to do was read the 1st press conference
to realize the guy was dumb, had zero understanding of modern football, extremely arrogant with zero interest in learning anything new, and extremely lazy and unprepared (i.e., he only watched 1 Giants game before his "interview").
It's all in there. And if you didn't get it there, the post draft press conference should have been an immediate firing.
Before a game was played, it was obvious we had zero chance to be successful with Gettleman. Most GMs are kind of the same these days. Gettleman was an outlier - much much dumber, less curious, archaic, lazy, arrogant than anyone else.
The Giants with Gettleman was like sitting at the toughest poker game in tbe world as a guy who doesn't know if 3 of a kind beats 2 pair. We had no chance.
People sometimes rhetorically ask "do you think you could do a better job" than a coach or a GM. In this case the answer is yes. I could personally find hundreds of people who could do a better job than Gettleman. You could walk into any office building in America and find dozens of people who could do a better job. They wouldn't know as much about football, but in terms of leadership, intelligence, decision making, how to run an organization, how to deal with people, strategic thinking - they are standard deviations better than Gettleman. He was a complete abomination in every way. The fact that the Giants hired him and employed him for 4 years shows that they were both dumb and not serious about winning. And that's hard to deal with as a fan.
Gettleman simply couldn't accept the structure of the game had fundamentally changed. Run, stop the run, rush the passer is a blue print from 30+ years ago.
Pass the ball, stop the pass. Any team architect who isn't starting there failed before they started.
Gettleman simply couldn't accept the structure of the game had fundamentally changed. Run, stop the run, rush the passer is a blue print from 30+ years ago.
Pass the ball, stop the pass. Any team architect who isn't starting there failed before they started.
And it's not as if he actually accomplished building his own flawed structure anyway.
If conference championship participation is the way to judge the importance of running the ball vs. passing the ball -- the average team ranks for championship game participants from 2018-2023 (Gettleman era through today):
Additionally 10 teams have played in conference championship and not been a top 10 rushing team, only 7 teams have played in championship and not have been a top 10 passing team.
And as a reminder the 2011 Giants were the worst rushing offense in the league, and had 2 playoff games where they rushed for fewer than 100 yards including the NFCC where they rushed for 85 yards on 26 attempts for an average of 3.2 YPC.
It's absolutely true they rushed the ball better in the Super Bowl. So is the prevailing theory it's OK to suck running the ball all regular season, and suck rushing the ball in 2/3 playoff games so long as you rush the ball at a league average clip in the Super Bowl?
Gettleman simply couldn't accept the structure of the game had fundamentally changed. Run, stop the run, rush the passer is a blue print from 30+ years ago.
Pass the ball, stop the pass. Any team architect who isn't starting there failed before they started.
And it's not as if he actually accomplished building his own flawed structure anyway.
Just a truly awful failure in the top spot.
It truly is. In Barkley's tenure as a Giant they were a top 10 rushing team once, 2022. And a big part of that was Jones.
Who could have guessed trying to build a running team around Weekend at Manning's was a loser.
You will never convince me that Dave Gettleman was not a close Eagles fan who spent his whole career trying to end up where he did to destroy the Giants. I am sure he is sitting at home right now in a Brian Dawkins jersey laughing his ass off that Barkley is an Eagle.
You will never convince me that Dave Gettleman was not a close Eagles fan who spent his whole career trying to end up where he did to destroy the Giants. I am sure he is sitting at home right now in a Brian Dawkins jersey laughing his ass off that Barkley is an Eagle.
What I find interesting about the Gettleman disaster is how Accorsi seems to have escaped criticism.
He was THE guy Mara hired to find the next GM after Reese, and then spent all of ten minutes identifying and recommending Gettleman. A recommendation, btw, largely based on the fact he felt guilty about supporting Reese over Gettleman as his successor after he retired in 2006.
It's easy to blame Mara, but Accorsi has always had Mara's confidence because he was fully vested in the "Giants Way". He trusted him like Don Corleone trusted Tom Hagen.
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That would be shocking in illustrating how much Gettleman sucked. He is easily in the top 3 worst front office employees in Giants history. I don’t even think that is debatable.
You will never convince me that Dave Gettleman was not a close Eagles fan who spent his whole career trying to end up where he did to destroy the Giants. I am sure he is sitting at home right now in a Brian Dawkins jersey laughing his ass off that Barkley is an Eagle.
What I find interesting about the Gettleman disaster is how Accorsi seems to have escaped criticism.
He was THE guy Mara hired to find the next GM after Reese, and then spent all of ten minutes identifying and recommending Gettleman. A recommendation, btw, largely based on the fact he felt guilty about supporting Reese over Gettleman as his successor after he retired in 2006.
It's easy to blame Mara, but Accorsi has always had Mara's confidence because he was fully vested in the "Giants Way". He trusted him like Don Corleone trusted Tom Hagen.
John Mara asked Accorsi to conduct a GM search that would identify the best ex-Giants employee named Dave Gettleman to fill the role. That was not a search, it was a corronation.
And the guy wasn’t just bad at his job…he was an arrogant asshole. It is embarrassing that the Giants have to admit they gave him money and put him in front of TV cameras.
The NFL is built to not be this hard. You really have to try to be this bad for this long.
There is no clearer sign that ownership is a problem than this. They just do not get it.
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In comment 16583451 Mike from Ohio said:
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That would be shocking in illustrating how much Gettleman sucked. He is easily in the top 3 worst front office employees in Giants history. I don’t even think that is debatable.
You will never convince me that Dave Gettleman was not a close Eagles fan who spent his whole career trying to end up where he did to destroy the Giants. I am sure he is sitting at home right now in a Brian Dawkins jersey laughing his ass off that Barkley is an Eagle.
What I find interesting about the Gettleman disaster is how Accorsi seems to have escaped criticism.
He was THE guy Mara hired to find the next GM after Reese, and then spent all of ten minutes identifying and recommending Gettleman. A recommendation, btw, largely based on the fact he felt guilty about supporting Reese over Gettleman as his successor after he retired in 2006.
It's easy to blame Mara, but Accorsi has always had Mara's confidence because he was fully vested in the "Giants Way". He trusted him like Don Corleone trusted Tom Hagen.
John Mara asked Accorsi to conduct a GM search that would identify the best ex-Giants employee named Dave Gettleman to fill the role. That was not a search, it was a corronation.
And the guy wasn’t just bad at his job…he was an arrogant asshole. It is embarrassing that the Giants have to admit they gave him money and put him in front of TV cameras.
This 1000%. Businesses do this all the time: hire a consultant to come to a conclusion that management already decided. And then management can act like they weren’t biased, there wasn’t cronyism, etc.
And on top of that the guy was an asshole. Can’t believe Mara had him ride off into the sunset with honoring him the last home game he was here.
2018: 0-2 which became 1-7
2019: 0-2 which became 2-2 then became 2-11
2020: 0-5
2021: 0-3 which became 1-5
You'd think after 2021 Schoen would move off of Jones. But what happened? Mara is telling reporters they've done everything to screw Jones up before Schoen can even sit at his desk.
Still, Schoen declines the 5th year option. Then they have a little bit of success, win a playoff game and all of John Mara, Chris Mara & Steve Tisch are acting as if they've won the Super Bowl. Jones is declared their "franchise QB".
What a fucking mess. This is a very difficult franchise to be GM. And Gettleman dealt with it too I'm sure.
All to say, Gettleman was that bad but we continued the path beyond his tenure here.
The only difference is BD was a good enough coach to create a scheme that worked on a temporary basis and/or against bad defenses. But the Giants overall talent level came back to the surface. Sad thing is I think we may have the talent to be a real team this year at all but the most important position so we probably won’t get a real read on that.
And on top of that the guy was an asshole. Can’t believe Mara had him ride off into the sunset with honoring him the last home game he was here.
This team was dog doo doo well before he arrived. Years before. He walked in a year after the previous regime passed on an All Pro LT because they wanted to pander to Ereck Flowers' feelings.
Dave did a pretty solid job in Carolina. Team did get to the SB and he added a bunch of good players that included several PB/AP players.
He also added the first AP OL with the Giants going all the way back to Snee in 2004.
Like Dave, Reese inherited most of the team. Even the QB/HC. JR had Eli/TC. Dave Cam/Rivera.
After his first two years as GM here, I don't think he had a lot of say as Mara was clearly going with Judge.
Unlike Jerry Reese, who agreed to a QB plan with Mara, executed it and was fired for it when some fans were upset. Spare me the stuff about John Mara being a “good guy.” He’s a moron, a nepo baby and a cowardly twerp.
Unlike Jerry Reese, who agreed to a QB plan with Mara, executed it and was fired for it when some fans were upset. Spare me the stuff about John Mara being a “good guy.” He’s a moron, a nepo baby and a cowardly twerp.
Mara was deeply fixated with being the good guy and there being a warm and fuzzy transition out for his favorites. And that desire for things to go smoothly backfired every time.
The Coughlin retiring charade, the working in the back up quarterbacks, giving Gettleman a swing after he picked Reese first. All of it was so contrived and predictable.
The only thing you missed was something about the running backs, and we've have your greatest hits.
Link - ( New Window )
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…instead of being escorted out of the building holding a box of his belongings, he was allowed a nice little farewell
Unlike Jerry Reese, who agreed to a QB plan with Mara, executed it and was fired for it when some fans were upset. Spare me the stuff about John Mara being a “good guy.” He’s a moron, a nepo baby and a cowardly twerp.
Mara was deeply fixated with being the good guy and there being a warm and fuzzy transition out for his favorites. And that desire for things to go smoothly backfired every time.
The Coughlin retiring charade, the working in the back up quarterbacks, giving Gettleman a swing after he picked Reese first. All of it was so contrived and predictable.
I think this is very accurate. And one of the hallmarks of John Mara causing this franchise to go down the toilet. You can draw a straight line to Mara falling back on what he 'knew' with Gettleman and also the Giants selecting Daniel Jones because they 'knew' David Cutcliffe because of Eli. John Mara goes to what feels comfortable and familiar. Its part of the reason the Jones pick makes me so mad. I'm convinced that if Cutcliffe wasn't connected to Jones, he wouldnt have been the pick.
I think this is very accurate. And one of the hallmarks of John Mara causing this franchise to go down the toilet. You can draw a straight line to Mara falling back on what he 'knew' with Gettleman and also the Giants selecting Daniel Jones because they 'knew' David Cutcliffe because of Eli. John Mara goes to what feels comfortable and familiar. Its part of the reason the Jones pick makes me so mad. I'm convinced that if Cutcliffe wasn't connected to Jones, he wouldnt have been the pick.
I've heard directly and indirectly from people who know John Mara that's he's both an incredibly sincere and caring person, but also cares very deeply what people think of him.
I think his father instilled a deep concern for the players and staff, that doesn't help when it's time to make tough decisions.
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All of it was so contrived and predictable.
I think this is very accurate. And one of the hallmarks of John Mara causing this franchise to go down the toilet. You can draw a straight line to Mara falling back on what he 'knew' with Gettleman and also the Giants selecting Daniel Jones because they 'knew' David Cutcliffe because of Eli. John Mara goes to what feels comfortable and familiar. Its part of the reason the Jones pick makes me so mad. I'm convinced that if Cutcliffe wasn't connected to Jones, he wouldnt have been the pick.
I've heard directly and indirectly from people who know John Mara that's he's both an incredibly sincere and caring person, but also cares very deeply what people think of him.
I think his father instilled a deep concern for the players and staff, that doesn't help when it's time to make tough decisions.
If he cares so much about people, you’d think that would extend to Reese, who was intimately involved in securing the team their last two rings. So he’s inconsistent. Daniel Jones is in; Reese is out.
Mara can’t retire soon enough. I hope Kate Mara is the next CEO of the team. At least it would make the annual Press conferences more watchable..
Mara can’t retire soon enough. I hope Kate Mara is the next CEO of the team. At least it would make the annual Press conferences more watchable.
My guess is Jerry Reese is not a terribly likable person. And I also suspect after the Manning crying incident, Reese is probably the only person who told Mara "you're the one who fucking wanted this."
Mara clearly picked Manning over Reese in that moment.
The way you talk about Reese, I get the sense you didn't enjoy that season and run all that much.
I think if Shurmur had stayed on as head coach, Jones would have had bigger numbers, but ultimately resembled a player like Jameis Winston. Big numbers but too many turnovers to justify investment.
Damn what a horrible offseason. Nate Solder did Patrick Omameh a huge favor. I had forgotten how bad that signing was
Don't sleep on Pio!
Damn what a horrible offseason. Nate Solder did Patrick Omameh a huge favor. I had forgotten how bad that signing was
Gettleman also let some solid players walk. Okwara, Kennard, Pugh, and Richburg all had some good football left in them to various degrees. And the crowing achievement was trading JPP for the pick that became BJ Hill. And then trading BJ Hill for Billy Price.
Reese inherited the entire OL. He never added an OL in the draft from rounds 1-3 from 2007-2012.
I think any smart GM who understood Eli's skillset would have made a huge priority keeping the OL to a high standard. Philly/Dallas each had three AP/PB OL in 2017. The last PB OL Eli had was Snee in 2012.
+1,000,000. And not just in connection with football.
It still amazes me that anyone lumps Jerry Reese together with Gettleman. Reese made some decisions that were hard to defend contemporaneously, and many that were defensible at the time but turned out poorly. In a bottom-line business, he won two Super Bowls in eleven years as GM, with a roster he helped Ernie Accorsi build through the draft. That's a decent record no matter how badly his last five years sucked. Although Reese could be prickly and defensive, he was mostly respectful toward the press and the fans, and appreciative of all the organization had given him. Even the decision that got him fired doesn't look so bad now that Geno Smith is a solid NFL starter and Eli Manning has been out of the League for five years.
As for Gettleman, well... he drafted Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence and, um... Darius Slayton? And if we go back to 2005, he played some role in several good UFA signings.
Mara can’t retire soon enough. I hope Kate Mara is the next CEO of the team. At least it would make the annual Press conferences more watchable..
I'm going Rooney just because I think this guy would be the ultimate president of Jints Central...
Reese inherited the entire OL. He never added an OL in the draft from rounds 1-3 from 2007-2012.
Will Beatty has entered the chat.
And Reese picked one fewer offensive lineman in rounds 1-3 in the six year period from 2007-2012 as Accorsi did in the six year period of 2001-2006.
Reese picked Beatty on round two in 2009, and Accorsi picked Jeff Hatch on round 3 in 2002 and Chris Snee on round 2 in 2004.
Reese made a number of prescient and gutsy moves that worked out. Gettleman led a pro personnel team that hit on virtually every UFA. And Coughlin and the staff developed a number of mid-to-late round talents.
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I think this list captures Rabbit Foot Dave at his finest. Link - ( New Window )
Damn what a horrible offseason. Nate Solder did Patrick Omameh a huge favor. I had forgotten how bad that signing was
Gettleman also let some solid players walk. Okwara, Kennard, Pugh, and Richburg all had some good football left in them to various degrees. And the crowing achievement was trading JPP for the pick that became BJ Hill. And then trading BJ Hill for Billy Price.
I also forgot about the BJ Hill thing. The layers of suck with him are just too grand.
Do you think he's sitting there seeing BJ Hill play well and contend at the end of the season and admitted to himself he fucked up?
Or is he like "Don't worry Dave, you are smarter than everyone else. Billy Price is going to the Pro Bowl next year!!"
My favorite was people defending him because he 'recognized his mistakes quickly' after he inevitably cut somebody terrible that he signed.
Mara allowed it to happen which is a direct reflection on his lack of leadership and own decision-making.
Nicks done at 25
Cruz done at 27
JPP was all-world at 23 and the back injury limited his ascent
Chad Jones never played
Tuck was done at 30
Snee was done at 30
Webster was done at 30
Steve Smith was done at 24
Phillips was done at 25
Baas was done at 30
There's probably a few more
We got very few extended primes and loads and loads of talent that was completely cooked by their mid 20s. There were plenty of bad decisions made but Its just hard to survive that kind of talent drain.
My favorite was people defending him because he 'recognized his mistakes quickly' after he inevitably cut somebody terrible that he signed.
There were a lot of posters here who refused to ever admit DG was a disaster. No matter how many mistakes he made and how bad the team got, it was always just part of the plan that we were all too dumb to understand.
Nicks done at 25
Cruz done at 27
JPP was all-world at 23 and the back injury limited his ascent
Chad Jones never played
Tuck was done at 30
Snee was done at 30
Webster was done at 30
Steve Smith was done at 24
Phillips was done at 25
Baas was done at 30
There's probably a few more
We got very few extended primes and loads and loads of talent that was completely cooked by their mid 20s. There were plenty of bad decisions made but Its just hard to survive that kind of talent drain.
I've been saying this for years too. Reese got insanely unlucky. Kelce just retired after an All Pro season at 36 but we couldn't even get average play from Snee past 30.
Nicks was a heart-breaker. If he had a 7 year prime, we might take Martin over Odell.
Reese made a number of errors, but to hit home runs the on 2008 and 2009 first rounders and basically get nothing from them starting in 2013 just sucks.
My favorite was people defending him because he 'recognized his mistakes quickly' after he inevitably cut somebody terrible that he signed.
There were a lot of posters here who refused to ever admit DG was a disaster. No matter how many mistakes he made and how bad the team got, it was always just part of the plan that we were all too dumb to understand.
At the risk of defaming the departed, this is a classic.
Link - ( New Window )
No one wants to hear it because "Everyone has injuries!", but it's not an excuse when most of your best players have career ending injuries, or severely limiting injuries, in their 20s. In addition to your list, there was Terrell Thomas (career basically over at 25). Jonathan Goff got the starting MLB job in 2010 at age 25, played a very nice season....and never played again after blowing out his knee. There was Jake Ballard, who came from out of nowhere to have an excellent rookie season as a UDFA in 2011 only to blow out his knee in the Super Bowl, ending his career.
None of the Giants' good OL had long careers by OL standards. McKenzie retired at 32 and had been significantly declining for several years prior. Seubert retired at 31. Jason Peters is actually older than Snee and played LAST SEASON, a full decade after Snee retired.
So yeah, everyone deals with injuries, but for years not only did the Giants' best players get injured, but most of them either never played again or had diminished, truncated careers. Once they got hurt, that was mostly it, and that was brutal to overcome.
Let's say for argument's sake Pugh, Richburg, and Flowers were all over drafted by a full round. Wouldn't you expect some of the 2nd and 3rd round talent to be developed by the staff?
We are entering year 6…
Nicks done at 25
Cruz done at 27
JPP was all-world at 23 and the back injury limited his ascent
Chad Jones never played
Tuck was done at 30
Snee was done at 30
Webster was done at 30
Steve Smith was done at 24
Phillips was done at 25
Baas was done at 30
There's probably a few more
We got very few extended primes and loads and loads of talent that was completely cooked by their mid 20s. There were plenty of bad decisions made but Its just hard to survive that kind of talent drain.
Nicks kills me. He had HOF talent.
The Giants were hitting home run after home run drafting WRs, and didn't get 4 healthy years out of any of them.
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I was fine with the DG hire at the time--it looked like he got shafted in Carolina--but it was obvious very quickly that he was going to be a disaster. The Ogletree trade in March of that year was a huge red flag. Then the Solder signing and the Barkley pick made me realize the house was on fire.
My favorite was people defending him because he 'recognized his mistakes quickly' after he inevitably cut somebody terrible that he signed.
There were a lot of posters here who refused to ever admit DG was a disaster. No matter how many mistakes he made and how bad the team got, it was always just part of the plan that we were all too dumb to understand.
At the risk of defaming the departed, this is a classic. Link - ( New Window )
This is what makes BBI a special place. There is no escaping the historic receipts!
Go Terps : 9/17/2018 2:42 pm : link
We're caught in a limbo where we are non-competitive now, but aren't really building anything for the future either. We've invested a blue chip pick in a running back, and have huge money tied up in a wide receiver. Those are the types of moves we killed Reese for, but Reese isn't here to kick around anymore. And within a year or two there's a good chance that we'll be overextending for a QB prospect when we could have just sat tight and had him.
It's just been a disaster.
Link - ( New Window )
The Giants were hitting home run after home run drafting WRs, and didn't get 4 healthy years out of any of them.
Hell even Manningham too, he had the injury bug as well.
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Gettleman has been a disaster
Go Terps : 9/17/2018 2:42 pm : link
We're caught in a limbo where we are non-competitive now, but aren't really building anything for the future either. We've invested a blue chip pick in a running back, and have huge money tied up in a wide receiver. Those are the types of moves we killed Reese for, but Reese isn't here to kick around anymore. And within a year or two there's a good chance that we'll be overextending for a QB prospect when we could have just sat tight and had him.
It's just been a disaster.
Link - ( New Window )
Two games into his tenure and you nailed it.
The Giants were hitting home run after home run drafting WRs, and didn't get 4 healthy years out of any of them.
Hell even Manningham too, he had the injury bug as well.
It's really ridiculous in hindsight. I think the Giants left a ring on the table in 2012. If Nicks and Bellinger are healthy Giants, I think they compete for the Super Bowl that year.
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Nicks, Cruz, Smith, and Beckham all had significant injuries that derailed their careers before the age of 27.
The Giants were hitting home run after home run drafting WRs, and didn't get 4 healthy years out of any of them.
Hell even Manningham too, he had the injury bug as well.
It's really ridiculous in hindsight. I think the Giants left a ring on the table in 2012. If Nicks and Bellinger are healthy Giants, I think they compete for the Super Bowl that year.
Something happened to that ‘12 team post Sandy.
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Gettleman has been a disaster
Go Terps : 9/17/2018 2:42 pm : link
We're caught in a limbo where we are non-competitive now, but aren't really building anything for the future either. We've invested a blue chip pick in a running back, and have huge money tied up in a wide receiver. Those are the types of moves we killed Reese for, but Reese isn't here to kick around anymore. And within a year or two there's a good chance that we'll be overextending for a QB prospect when we could have just sat tight and had him.
It's just been a disaster.
Link - ( New Window )
One need only read that thread to know that "trust the process" and "trust the experts" require healthy doses of skeptical, independent and objective reality. I still believe your Lamar Jackson call was the best prognostication I have seen in my seven years of following BBI. And how different the world would be today for Giants fans had Gettleman been similarly prescient.
2011 was a very flawed team. What it did establish was the brilliance of both TC and Eli.
Mara chose Reese over TC. He gave in to Tisch. Moving on from TC started all the way back at the end of 2010. The drafts, SB clock, Jernigan comments, Gilbride, etc. all confirm it.
bw in dc : 9/18/2018 12:14 am : link
In comment 14082101 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Circumstantial evidence my ass. Giants ownership doesn't give directives to preserve a player's legacy. In your fucked up world, ownership hires a GM and a new coach with the explicit instructions to keep the QB around, even if it is detrimental to the team. To "bow to the House Of Manning". They then build around the QB to make sure he's here for several more years and give him a shiny new RB to go with a top WR.
Unfortunately you are deep in denial. Let me help once again...
It was reported in Newsday after the Benchgate that Mara and Eli had a "very emotional talk" and Mara didn't want Eli to "go out like this". And he was basically heartbroken when Eli started to break down on TV after the benching was announced. Mara then said he wanted Eli to retire as a Giant and Eli wanted the same thing. So...
A few days later McAdoo is the made the scapegoat and fired. And a few days later Reese is fired to round out the house clean. Both are easy targets.
Then suddenly Accorsi is back in the picture. Do you think that's just coincidence? He drafted Eli. And then he strongly recommends that Gettleman, who was there when Eli was drafted, as the GM. Do you think that's just another coincidence?
The next shoe drops - Shurmur becomes the HC lead candidate. Why? He just brought Case Keenum back from the QB graveyard. Perfect. Maybe he can do the same resuscitate Eli.
Shortly thereafter it is plastered all over the media that everyone has watched all this video and Eli still has plenty in the tank. Mara is ecstatic. Just what he wants to hear...Is that just pure coincidence? Hell, no. That is everyone falling in line.
Then the plan is hatched - rebuild the oline, improve at RB, and lock down OBJ (which got bumpy when the grainy video surfaced). And let's see if we can add some pieces on D.
Now Eli is set to - on paper - with a better team offensively.
I actually get why Mara did this. He feels a big debt of gratitude towards Eli. As I've said in the past, that's human nature. Mara isn't coldblooded to simply severe ties after such a catastrophe with the benching...
But I think it's the wrong plan; and a reflection of an organization that made decisions based on emotion and not good football reasoning.
The organization has changed in some respects - credit to them. But some those insider Jints Cetral guys are still there.
2011 was a very flawed team. What it did establish was the brilliance of both TC and Eli.
Mara chose Reese over TC. He gave in to Tisch. Moving on from TC started all the way back at the end of 2010. The drafts, SB clock, Jernigan comments, Gilbride, etc. all confirm it.
And so it goes for St. Tommy. As always, all of thr credit for winning and none of the responsibility for losing.
There are so many aspects of the Gettleman era that drive me up the wall, but the one that takes the cake is him PUBLICLY saying he wouldn’t trade out of 2nd pick in ‘18 no matter what. When I first saw that, I thought it was satire.
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Gettleman has been a disaster
Go Terps : 9/17/2018 2:42 pm : link
We're caught in a limbo where we are non-competitive now, but aren't really building anything for the future either. We've invested a blue chip pick in a running back, and have huge money tied up in a wide receiver. Those are the types of moves we killed Reese for, but Reese isn't here to kick around anymore. And within a year or two there's a good chance that we'll be overextending for a QB prospect when we could have just sat tight and had him.
It's just been a disaster.
Link - ( New Window )
You catch a lot of grief here but I'm on board with a lot of what you have to say.
Exactly. And if people want to blame TC for the personnel side, then why the hell was Reese the GM at all? Reese could not effectively replace the Accorsi holdovers. When they aged out, it was lights out. Gilbride was scapegoated. End of story.
Coughlin and Manning put it perfectly after they lost to the eventual Super Bowl champs, and effectively took themselves out of the playoffs.
Said Manning: "We knew we had to play our best football at the end of the season to get into the playoffs, and we haven't done that. When you're not playing your best, teams can come out and embarrass you."
Let's focus here guys and not let Lines of Weirdness detail a cathartic Gettleman bashing.
Reese won 2 Super Bowls. We're talking about Gettleman who didn't have a single day with a winning record.
Let's focus here guys and not let Lines of Weirdness detail a cathartic Gettleman bashing.
Reese won 2 Super Bowls. We're talking about Gettleman who didn't have a single day with a winning record.
Thanks for getting the thread back on track! That slob!
It’s like we are caught in a timeless era of suck.
It's a remarkably bad accomplishment on Gettleman's part.
Christine would have earned more credibility with the thread acknowledging the difficult circumstances Dave stepped into. That is not her style though.
Let's focus here guys and not let Lines of Weirdness detail a cathartic Gettleman bashing.
Reese won 2 Super Bowls. We're talking about Gettleman who didn't have a single day with a winning record.
I think you're missing the forest through the trees.
Gettleman sucked. But it's not like the problem didn't exist before he got here and it's not like it went away when he left.
There are some constants that remain.
But go and proceed with DG bashing if it makes you feel better :)
Someone summon that awesome DG and computers pic.
Christine would have earned more credibility with the thread acknowledging the difficult circumstances Dave stepped into. That is not her style though.
Pretty much every GM inherits difficult circumstances. Outside of retirement situations like the Giants with Reese or the Ravens with DeCosta, there is an opening because the team has sucked.
Yes, I am being a bit hypocritical. But I always enjoy old banter with my Fatfriend in Charlotte. Just reminiscing, really... ;)
In addition to have to fixing so many talent issues on the team, Dave also had to work with an Eli mandate. I don't think there is any chance that Ernie told Mara, "let's have Dave determine what happens with Eli." The decision was made before Dave imv and I think it was the right one.
I would have drafted Allen in '18.
In addition to have to fixing so many talent issues on the team, Dave also had to work with an Eli mandate. I don't think there is any chance that Ernie told Mara, "let's have Dave determine what happens with Eli." The decision was made before Dave imv and I think it was the right one.
I would have drafted Allen in '18.
The Eli "mandate" was clear as day to everyone well before Gettleman was hired. If he didn't like the limitations of the job, the simplest thing would have been to take himself out of the running.
Imagine being in your late 60s and taking a job that gives you no control over the most important position in sports.
So yeah, either Gettleman agreed with the decision that had been made about Eli, or he's a spineless dipshit.
I think it's pretty silly to believe Gettleman then decided to go to New York and have the most important player predetermined against his will.
The fan fiction is scraping the barrel now.
Reese inherited the entire OL. He never added an OL in the draft from rounds 1-3 from 2007-2012.
He drafted Will Beatty in the 2nd round of the 2009 draft. But he was a reach, injury prone and mentally soft. So of course Reese gave him a second contract, lol.
I think it's pretty silly to believe Gettleman then decided to go to New York and have the most important player predetermined against his will.
The fan fiction is scraping the barrel now.
Really...
I mean - DG was not the brightest bulb in the box, but you don't think he was capable of learning the very valuable lesson of listening to your superiors or it will cost you your job in the NFL?
You don't think he figured out - hey man - the owners are really calling the shots on some things in this league - not the GM?
Dude was out of work on his last leg - you don't think he was willing to tell Jints Central whatever they wanted to hear to have Big Blue take him back?
That's really fan fiction.....
As described above pretty well, he was either on board or a total wimp. I don't have much love for Dave Gettleman, but I don't think he was the latter.
As described above pretty well, he was either on board or a total wimp. I don't have much love for Dave Gettleman, but I don't think he was the latter.
If he was so proud he wouldn't of went out like a wimp - which is exactly what happened.
His Carolina exit was a show. He left NY without so much as a whisper. He was a total cuck for the franchise he loved so much.
I would totally buy this - EXCEPT - Schoen and Co. first order of business was to pass on DJ's 5th year option.
It's the main reason I can't buy this line of thinking b/c the rest of their actions make so much more sense if this were a given.
Yup. The lack of nuance makes for some strange hagiography.
They were absolutely the fall guys in the tangled web Mara wove.
Mara specifically asked each to collaborate and draw up a plan to sit Eli. They obliged. Apparently, Mara had second thoughts when he was out of town, but never got back to them to give them different direction.
So, McAdoo and Reese executed the plan.
But then fans and media revolted when they saw Eli breakdown. And Mara could not handle that. His palpitations kicked in. And Reese and McAdoo were fed to the lions.
One of Mara's more cowardly moments...
I can only imagine the voicemails.
Message number one: "Hey John it's JR. Shit didn't go well, call me back."
Message number two: "John it's Eli. WTF was that. Call me right now."
Unfortunately, it's 1940s era basketball
A franchise that has been lost for years.
Wake up.
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The way I see it, the guys that got screwed were McAdoo and Reese. They wanted to play basketball on grass with Patrick Mahomes. Instead we're now trying to play basketball on grass with Daniel Jones.
Totally agreed.
They weren’t without faults - but they were the scapegoats for sure.
They were absolutely the fall guys in the tangled web Mara wove.
Mara specifically asked each to collaborate and draw up a plan to sit Eli. They obliged. Apparently, Mara had second thoughts when he was out of town, but never got back to them to give them different direction.
So, McAdoo and Reese executed the plan.
But then fans and media revolted when they saw Eli breakdown. And Mara could not handle that. His palpitations kicked in. And Reese and McAdoo were fed to the lions.
One of Mara's more cowardly moments...
2019 Out of the league
2020 Quarterbacks Coach, Jaguars
2021 Consultant, Cowboys
2022 OC, Panthers (20th points, 29th yards)
2023 Out of the League
2024 Senior offensive assistant, Patriots
That's the one that got away?
Zeitler didnt suck here, he just couldnt carry a shit unit.
They botched the cap so bad they couldnt afford to keep him.
2019 Out of the league
2020 Quarterbacks Coach, Jaguars
2021 Consultant, Cowboys
2022 OC, Panthers (20th points, 29th yards)
2023 Out of the League
2024 Senior offensive assistant, Patriots
That's the one that got away?
I wouldn't discount Mara's ability to make it hard for someone to get a job after they leave the Giants.
And of course he was a cap casualty during the get Daniel Weapons off season.
He was also a total asshole and treated other in the building like shit.
How anyone could read that and complain about fans being upset right now...
Maybe BW remembers, but there was a nickname for Dave that really pushed his buttons. Maybe it was Dave F' Gettleman?
I once pressed my Fatfriend why he defended Gettleman so ferociously.
If I recall, FMiC is pretty good friends with Brandon Beane, GM/Bills. And I recall FMiC saying he did some work with the Panthers (tech stuff...maybe?). So, he met Gettleman either through Beane or during the work he did.
Since Beane was under Gettleman at Carolina, my guess is Beane is very fond of him and that has influenced FMiC's POV.
Maybe FMiC will make a cameo and give us his reasons.
But if you supported Dave Gettleman and his GM decisions after more than just a few months on the job, I don't know what to tell you other than you are a moron.
I will always, repeat...always, miss his press conferences though. They were simply "must-see-tv". Easily the most entertaining part of NY Giants football since 2012, on or off the field.
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The way I see it, the guys that got screwed were McAdoo and Reese. They wanted to play basketball on grass with Patrick Mahomes. Instead we're now trying to play basketball on grass with Daniel Jones.
They were absolutely the fall guys in the tangled web Mara wove.
Mara specifically asked each to collaborate and draw up a plan to sit Eli. They obliged. Apparently, Mara had second thoughts when he was out of town, but never got back to them to give them different direction.
So, McAdoo and Reese executed the plan.
But then fans and media revolted when they saw Eli breakdown. And Mara could not handle that. His palpitations kicked in. And Reese and McAdoo were fed to the lions.
One of Mara's more cowardly moments...
What’s odd is that those 2 never resurrected anywhere else.
This thread is depressing
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But the biggest story of the decline of the Giants was crippling long term injuries. Some careers were cut short early in their primes. Many ended during their primes. These are off the top of my head, so they might not be exact
Nicks done at 25
Cruz done at 27
JPP was all-world at 23 and the back injury limited his ascent
Chad Jones never played
Tuck was done at 30
Snee was done at 30
Webster was done at 30
Steve Smith was done at 24
Phillips was done at 25
Baas was done at 30
There's probably a few more
We got very few extended primes and loads and loads of talent that was completely cooked by their mid 20s. There were plenty of bad decisions made but Its just hard to survive that kind of talent drain.
I've been saying this for years too. Reese got insanely unlucky. Kelce just retired after an All Pro season at 36 but we couldn't even get average play from Snee past 30.
Nicks was a heart-breaker. If he had a 7 year prime, we might take Martin over Odell.
Reese made a number of errors, but to hit home runs the on 2008 and 2009 first rounders and basically get nothing from them starting in 2013 just sucks.
I've said this before but if Nicks and Cruz hadn't had their careers derailed, we almost certainly would've drafted Donald or Martin instead of Beckham.
At the risk of defaming the departed, this is a classic. Link - ( New Window )
That thread is an amazing read for longtime posters. Relieved I didn’t post on it ha ha
That thread is an amazing read for longtime posters. Relieved I didn’t post on it ha ha
I didn't even realize I had posted on it. But I think I passed the test.
Don't forget trading JPP who may still be an active player, for some scrub named Alec Olgletree. Who lasted, what a few years with us then washed out of the league.
It's all in there. And if you didn't get it there, the post draft press conference should have been an immediate firing.
Before a game was played, it was obvious we had zero chance to be successful with Gettleman. Most GMs are kind of the same these days. Gettleman was an outlier - much much dumber, less curious, archaic, lazy, arrogant than anyone else.
The Giants with Gettleman was like sitting at the toughest poker game in tbe world as a guy who doesn't know if 3 of a kind beats 2 pair. We had no chance.
People sometimes rhetorically ask "do you think you could do a better job" than a coach or a GM. In this case the answer is yes. I could personally find hundreds of people who could do a better job than Gettleman. You could walk into any office building in America and find dozens of people who could do a better job. They wouldn't know as much about football, but in terms of leadership, intelligence, decision making, how to run an organization, how to deal with people, strategic thinking - they are standard deviations better than Gettleman. He was a complete abomination in every way. The fact that the Giants hired him and employed him for 4 years shows that they were both dumb and not serious about winning. And that's hard to deal with as a fan.
It's all in there. And if you didn't get it there, the post draft press conference should have been an immediate firing.
Before a game was played, it was obvious we had zero chance to be successful with Gettleman. Most GMs are kind of the same these days. Gettleman was an outlier - much much dumber, less curious, archaic, lazy, arrogant than anyone else.
The Giants with Gettleman was like sitting at the toughest poker game in tbe world as a guy who doesn't know if 3 of a kind beats 2 pair. We had no chance.
People sometimes rhetorically ask "do you think you could do a better job" than a coach or a GM. In this case the answer is yes. I could personally find hundreds of people who could do a better job than Gettleman. You could walk into any office building in America and find dozens of people who could do a better job. They wouldn't know as much about football, but in terms of leadership, intelligence, decision making, how to run an organization, how to deal with people, strategic thinking - they are standard deviations better than Gettleman. He was a complete abomination in every way. The fact that the Giants hired him and employed him for 4 years shows that they were both dumb and not serious about winning. And that's hard to deal with as a fan.
Yeah, he was referencing 1950s football. Yikes.
Pass the ball, stop the pass. Any team architect who isn't starting there failed before they started.
The last two SB's were won in large part because of running the ball and stopping the run. Pretty basic analysis clearly shows this.
Giants two most recent SB's were won in large part due to this.
Beane has called Gettleman his mentor.
Pass the ball, stop the pass. Any team architect who isn't starting there failed before they started.
And it's not as if he actually accomplished building his own flawed structure anyway.
Just a truly awful failure in the top spot.
Passing Offense Rank 9th
Rushing offense Rank 12th
Additionally 10 teams have played in conference championship and not been a top 10 rushing team, only 7 teams have played in championship and not have been a top 10 passing team.
And as a reminder the 2011 Giants were the worst rushing offense in the league, and had 2 playoff games where they rushed for fewer than 100 yards including the NFCC where they rushed for 85 yards on 26 attempts for an average of 3.2 YPC.
It's absolutely true they rushed the ball better in the Super Bowl. So is the prevailing theory it's OK to suck running the ball all regular season, and suck rushing the ball in 2/3 playoff games so long as you rush the ball at a league average clip in the Super Bowl?
Pass the ball, stop the pass. Any team architect who isn't starting there failed before they started.
And it's not as if he actually accomplished building his own flawed structure anyway.
Just a truly awful failure in the top spot.
It truly is. In Barkley's tenure as a Giant they were a top 10 rushing team once, 2022. And a big part of that was Jones.
Who could have guessed trying to build a running team around Weekend at Manning's was a loser.