Bill Simmons on Giants Maye Offer

I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB.

I don’t mind Simmons, but I find Cousin Sal to be insufferable and not even remotely funny.

And crazy not to accept it. But don't believe it's true.

the Pats were dumb not to accept it. I think Maye can be a good QB, but a trade like that can be franchise altering.

who’s made a generous offer for a QB and then turned down. The Patriots had a worse QB “room” than the Giants, and I don’t think there was any waffling over QB at 3 for them. They put on a nice little show but IMO we’re locked in on QB the whole time.

coming back to us as well. No way we do 1-2-3, 1-2-3 in back to back years like that BUT, we gain a ton of cap space next year if we move on from Jones.

In comment 16590424 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

who’s made a generous offer for a QB and then turned down. The Patriots had a worse QB “room” than the Giants, and I don’t think there was any waffling over QB at 3 for them. They put on a nice little show but IMO we’re locked in on QB the whole time.

^^^ This. And I doubt the offer was that high. But even if close, it was good, except as you said, the Patriots were far worse than the Giants.

In comment 16590423 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

the Pats were dumb not to accept it. I think Maye can be a good QB, but a trade like that can be franchise altering.

Absolutely. I can't believe Giants offered anywhere near that.

it was correspondingly smart not to accept it too.

The Pats would’ve been dumb to pass up Maye, and they aren’t.

I’m just dubious about how deep Simmons’ NFL connections are. NBA, sure, but I’ve never seen him display any behind the scenes knowledge of the NFL, even with his beloved Pats.

In comment 16590421 jeff57 said:

Quote:

And crazy not to accept it. But don't believe it's true.

+1

Joe Schoen would chase one draft prospect with all that draft capital!

If he had said that's what the Pat were asking for.

but it kinda doesn’t matter since I think we made a very good offer, whatever it was, and the Pats were moving forward with their QB of the future.

Schoen sees the same thing I see in Maye. But I'm still distressed we haven't come up with anything better than Lock and Cutlets behind DJ. I'll just take comfort in knowing we'll pivot off DJ for sure in the offseason, if he stinks again, given the scuttlebutt about Maye.

This will probably serve well as another example of rumors/news that I want to hear, therefore it is true.

I think there as been too much smoke around the supposed trade offer to the Pats for me to deny that Schoen is looking to upgrade the qb and wasn't just 'checking in' to see what the cost was. Regardless, information like this isn't verified as fact.

But, I wish they did more to address QB this year.

I forgot to add that if this information is not what I want to hear then it is false.

I had heard that was the original asking price from the Pats.

But I don’t think they were really listening. The chances of your draft choice matching up with a quality QB prospect when you need one happens once in forever. No one trades that no matter what.

what all of the other reports seemed to be. As mentioned I am not sure Simmons actually has inside sources in the NFL so this may be some artistic license with his storytelling.

May as well have swung for the fences at that point. And tried to move up to 2 or even 1

In comment 16590457 BillT said:

Quote:

But I don’t think they were really listening. The chances of your draft choice matching up with a quality QB prospect when you need one happens once in forever. No one trades that no matter what.

Exactly. The Pats never really wanted to trade the pick.

The Giants were clearly not ready to move on from Jones yet. It'd very obvious now in hindsight.

In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB.

I don't mind not getting the trade done, takes two to tango right?

But for plan B to just be running it back with Jones after not being able to make a trade is what I have an issue with

pretty convincingly that the Giants made a legit attempt to trade up for Maye and the Pats just weren't moving that pick.

Sucks but oh well. At least we did get a player that looks like a total stud.

first three teams all needed QBs and liked the same guys. NE needed a QB for the next decade and if they got one, he's worth more even than that offer.

In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB.

Pats weren't trading that pick for 5 1s. And we know the same whining assholes Are dying to post how great the 2nd tier guys are even when they got 17 for 30 w 2 INTs.

And if Maye is great they won't admit that Schoen offered enough anyway.

In comment 16590473 Chris684 said:

Quote:

The Giants were clearly not ready to move on from Jones yet. It'd very obvious now in hindsight.

So you are saying that Garofolo and Rappaport are also lying saying that JS offered 2 number ones and a number three?

Seems like you are really trying to hold on to a narrative despite multiple sources saying we did make a good offer

In comment 16590478 Scooter185 said:

Quote:

In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB. I don't mind not getting the trade done, takes two to tango right? But for plan B to just be running it back with Jones after not being able to make a trade is what I have an issue with

Because you don't do something just to do something...

In comment 16590464 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

what all of the other reports seemed to be. As mentioned I am not sure Simmons actually has inside sources in the NFL so this may be some artistic license with his storytelling.

Sounds more like what the Patriots would have needed to move out of that spot. And when you consider that the Giants ultimately drafted zero QBs, it's hard to believe they would have given up all of those picks for Maye but none of their own picks on JJM, Penix, Nix or even a later round developmental QB.

In comment 16590478 Scooter185 said:

Quote:

In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB. So then if they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they they wanted…then that was their back up plan…what do you think they should have done? I don't mind not getting the trade done, takes two to tango right? But for plan B to just be running it back with Jones after not being able to make a trade is what I have an issue with

In comment 16590484 Heisenberg said:

Quote:

first three teams all needed QBs and liked the same guys. NE needed a QB for the next decade and if they got one, he's worth more even than that offer.

Remember that next time a team going nowhere wins a few meaningless late season games with a meme QB and people go apeshit and call you a bad fan if you're not on board with it.

In comment 16590490 Mbavaro said:

Quote:

In comment 16590478 Scooter185 said: Quote: In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB. So then if they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they they wanted…then that was their back up plan…what do you think they should have done? I don't mind not getting the trade done, takes two to tango right? But for plan B to just be running it back with Jones after not being able to make a trade is what I have an issue with

Sorry for the multiple post

If they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they wanted…that was their back up plan

What do you think they should have done?

In comment 16590431 mittenedman said:

Quote:

it was correspondingly smart not to accept it too. The Pats would’ve been dumb to pass up Maye, and they aren’t.

It was “smart” to not accept an offer of FIVE additional picks - and the top picks a team could offer at that - to move back three spots? Wow.

and even though I don't believe this is true it wouldn't surprise me. If it is, however, I'm not a HUGE fan of Eliot Wolf.

Giants think of Jones as a tier 2 QB. IF the attempt to move up is true, and there's enough smoke to believe they made some attempt, the only argument being how much of an attempt, they believe Maye is going to be better.

I don't believe Giants are 'all in' on DJ, but think they have more belief than most of BBI.

In comment 16590500 Harvest Blend said:

Quote:

and even though I don't believe this is true it wouldn't surprise me. If it is, however, I'm not a HUGE fan of Eliot Wolf.

err..... NOW a huge fan...

In comment 16590492 rsjem1979 said:

Quote:

In comment 16590484 Heisenberg said: Quote: first three teams all needed QBs and liked the same guys. NE needed a QB for the next decade and if they got one, he's worth more even than that offer. Remember that next time a team going nowhere wins a few meaningless late season games with a meme QB and people go apeshit and call you a bad fan if you're not on board with it.

I hear ya. Myself, I can't help but have fun when the Giants win. In my head, I know that better draft position gets us a QB but in my heart...

In comment 16590486 Mbavaro said:

Quote:

In comment 16590473 Chris684 said: Quote: The Giants were clearly not ready to move on from Jones yet. It'd very obvious now in hindsight. So you are saying that Garofolo and Rappaport are also lying saying that JS offered 2 number ones and a number three? Seems like you are really trying to hold on to a narrative despite multiple sources saying we did make a good offer

You are moving from thread to thread trying to defend your belief but at the end of the day, Drake Maye is not a Giant and their QB room got worse, not better.

Those are just the facts.

I have no doubt the Giants made an offer for Maye. I just don’t believe it was the strongest offer. Certainly not the one Simmons is claiming.

In comment 16590498 speedywheels said:

Quote:

In comment 16590431 mittenedman said: Quote: it was correspondingly smart not to accept it too. The Pats would’ve been dumb to pass up Maye, and they aren’t. It was “smart” to not accept an offer of FIVE additional picks - and the top picks a team could offer at that - to move back three spots? Wow.

It’s not “three spots” it’s the difference between getting a top QB prospect or not. Wouldn’t matter if it were one spot or twenty.

This is a little logically far-fetched.

We know four hours before the draft, Wolf and Schoen exchange some broad parameters. In this conversation there's no reference to a standing offer of two year's worth of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks. In fact Wolf comes out and says it would take something like that.

And we're to believe Schoen subsequently made an offer like that, and HBO decided not to include that dramatic moment in the program? That would have been the most compelling piece of offseason footage this decade.

In comment 16590509 Chris684 said:

Quote:

In comment 16590486 Mbavaro said: Quote: In comment 16590473 Chris684 said: Quote: The Giants were clearly not ready to move on from Jones yet. It'd very obvious now in hindsight. So you are saying that Garofolo and Rappaport are also lying saying that JS offered 2 number ones and a number three? Seems like you are really trying to hold on to a narrative despite multiple sources saying we did make a good offer You are moving from thread to thread trying to defend your belief but at the end of the day, Drake Maye is not a Giant and their QB room got worse, not better. Those are just the facts. I have no doubt the Giants made an offer for Maye. I just don’t believe it was the strongest offer. Certainly not the one Simmons is claiming.

I would say the offer that both Garofolo and Rappaport reported was a strong offer and that offer would dispel the notion that you claimed that they are all in on Jones

If they were all in…then no offer would even taken place for a player who they just signed to an extension the previous year

I believe JS know he F-ed up with the extension which is why they spent so much time in season last year and this off season heavy scouting QB’s…then had discussions with New England

He’s betting hard on the Giants under 4.5 wins this season. Says our QB, Line, and Defense are horrible.

Obviously Garafolo is Schoen's guy. What did he report the Giants offered?

In comment 16590529 christian said:

Quote:

Obviously Garafolo is Schoen's guy. What did he report the Giants offered?

How is that obvious?
I think Garofolo is the best in that biz
He along with Rappaport both reported we offered our number 1 this year and next year and a number 3 this year

In comment 16590538 Mbavaro said:

Quote:

Obviously Garafolo is Schoen's guy. What did he report the Giants offered? How is that obvious? I think Garofolo is the best in that biz He along with Rappaport both reported we offered our number 1 this year and next year and a number 3 this year

Can you point me to that reporting?

If you watched Hard Knocks, it was crystal clear Schoen was Garafolo's source during the offseason.

We already know they Giants offered two #1s. So the #2 and #3 next year is a bridge too far?

In comment 16590522 JoeyBigBlue said:

Quote:

He’s betting hard on the Giants under 4.5 wins this season. Says our QB, Line, and Defense are horrible.

He may be right...

But he's still butthurt over the Giants ruining the Pats perfect season.

I'm sure he was penning the epilogue of his book prior to the SB.

In comment 16590543 christian said:

Quote:

In comment 16590538 Mbavaro said: Quote: Obviously Garafolo is Schoen's guy. What did he report the Giants offered? How is that obvious? I think Garofolo is the best in that biz He along with Rappaport both reported we offered our number 1 this year and next year and a number 3 this year Can you point me to that reporting? If you watched Hard Knocks, it was crystal clear Schoen was Garafolo's source during the offseason.

I am not on twitter….it was posted here during draft time
See Eric’s post

I said it on draft day. Simmons has an extra 2 in there from what I was told.

I was told two 1s, a 2 and two 3s.

put to rest the argument that the Giants don't know they have a QB problem?

It's out in the open. They were going to give up two drafts to get one.

If Garafolo reported:
2024 1st & 3rd, 2025 1st

And Simmons is reporting:
2024 1st & 2nd & 3rd, 2025 1st & 2nd & 3rd

That's a huge difference.

In comment 16590544 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

We already know they Giants offered two #1s. So the #2 and #3 next year is a bridge too far?

I keep hearing Schoen's comment to Dan Morgan when negotiating the Burns deal "....we need players too!"
Seems like the 6 premium picks over two drafts would have been an almost historic level trade to move up 3 spots.
That said, I wanted Drake Maye as well.

In comment 16590544 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

We already know they Giants offered two #1s. So the #2 and #3 next year is a bridge too far?

Isn't it obvious. To accept that would undercut the recurring assertion that Schoen is all in on Joines and/or got his marching orders from Mara

In comment 16590494 Mbavaro said:

Quote:

In comment 16590490 Mbavaro said: Quote: In comment 16590478 Scooter185 said: Quote: In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB. So then if they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they they wanted…then that was their back up plan…what do you think they should have done? I don't mind not getting the trade done, takes two to tango right? But for plan B to just be running it back with Jones after not being able to make a trade is what I have an issue with Sorry for the multiple post If they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they wanted…that was their back up plan What do you think they should have done?

I'm on record as wanting JJM. Obviously today that would look bad if he tore his meniscus here as well, but couldn't predict that at the time.

I just see such a large gulf between "trade the farm" and "run it back with the QB we obviously don't want since we tried to trade the farm" that I can't believe there were no intermediate options.

In comment 16590558 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

put to rest the argument that the Giants don't know they have a QB problem? It's out in the open. They were going to give up two drafts to get one.

The good news is that they were willing to trade not just for any QB, but the one that they believed would be the best. Otherwise they would have shown more interest in McCarthy, Penix, or Nix....which is what Gettleman would have done.

In comment 16590456 dd in Mass said:

Quote:

I had heard that was the original asking price from the Pats.

That seems more realistic. I'd be stunned if Schoen offered that much, or that Mara would be OK if he did so.

In comment 16590569 Scooter185 said:

Quote:

In comment 16590494 Mbavaro said: Quote: In comment 16590490 Mbavaro said: Quote: In comment 16590478 Scooter185 said: Quote: In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB. So then if they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they they wanted…then that was their back up plan…what do you think they should have done? I don't mind not getting the trade done, takes two to tango right? But for plan B to just be running it back with Jones after not being able to make a trade is what I have an issue with Sorry for the multiple post If they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they wanted…that was their back up plan What do you think they should have done? I'm on record as wanting JJM. Obviously today that would look bad if he tore his meniscus here as well, but couldn't predict that at the time. I just see such a large gulf between "trade the farm" and "run it back with the QB we obviously don't want since we tried to trade the farm" that I can't believe there were no intermediate options.

Maybe they ranked Jones ahead of all but the top 3 QBs in this draft? It's their necks on the line, so they have to go with their evaluations.

In comment 16590574 Tom in NY said:

Quote:

In comment 16590569 Scooter185 said: Quote: In comment 16590494 Mbavaro said: Quote: In comment 16590490 Mbavaro said: Quote: In comment 16590478 Scooter185 said: Quote: In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB. So then if they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they they wanted…then that was their back up plan…what do you think they should have done? I don't mind not getting the trade done, takes two to tango right? But for plan B to just be running it back with Jones after not being able to make a trade is what I have an issue with Sorry for the multiple post If they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they wanted…that was their back up plan What do you think they should have done? I'm on record as wanting JJM. Obviously today that would look bad if he tore his meniscus here as well, but couldn't predict that at the time. I just see such a large gulf between "trade the farm" and "run it back with the QB we obviously don't want since we tried to trade the farm" that I can't believe there were no intermediate options. Maybe they ranked Jones ahead of all but the top 3 QBs in this draft? It's their necks on the line, so they have to go with their evaluations.

If that's the case, oof!

what they paid for Eli manning, and the pats still turned it down, I have a bridge to sell you.

Ask yourself why so many reports vary on what was or wasn’t offered. No one is saying the truth. They made an offer. That’s if. No one knows exact details and won’t know the exact details until the bodies are buried.

In comment 16590441 Beer Man said:

Quote:

If he had said that's what the Pat were asking for.

Exactly.

In comment 16590580 SirLoinOfBeef said:

Quote:

In comment 16590574 Tom in NY said: Quote: In comment 16590569 Scooter185 said: Quote: In comment 16590494 Mbavaro said: Quote: In comment 16590490 Mbavaro said: Quote: In comment 16590478 Scooter185 said: Quote: In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB. So then if they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they they wanted…then that was their back up plan…what do you think they should have done? I don't mind not getting the trade done, takes two to tango right? But for plan B to just be running it back with Jones after not being able to make a trade is what I have an issue with Sorry for the multiple post If they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they wanted…that was their back up plan What do you think they should have done? I'm on record as wanting JJM. Obviously today that would look bad if he tore his meniscus here as well, but couldn't predict that at the time. I just see such a large gulf between "trade the farm" and "run it back with the QB we obviously don't want since we tried to trade the farm" that I can't believe there were no intermediate options. Maybe they ranked Jones ahead of all but the top 3 QBs in this draft? It's their necks on the line, so they have to go with their evaluations. If that's the case, oof!

Why is that an "oof!"?
We won't know the answer to that for likely another 3+ years when we see what these other 3 QBs turn into.

In comment 16590560 christian said:

Quote:

If Garafolo reported: 2024 1st & 3rd, 2025 1st And Simmons is reporting: 2024 1st & 2nd & 3rd, 2025 1st & 2nd & 3rd That's a huge difference.

It's well known that teams up their offers when on the clock. Offering the additional #2 and #3 is totally believable and probably likely.

In comment 16590594 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16590560 christian said: Quote: If Garafolo reported: 2024 1st & 3rd, 2025 1st And Simmons is reporting: 2024 1st & 2nd & 3rd, 2025 1st & 2nd & 3rd That's a huge difference. It's well known that teams up their offers when on the clock. Offering the additional #2 and #3 is totally believable and probably likely.

And if you note, Hard Knocks did not include any trade talks with he Pats on the clock (or the Vikings, which we know they called the Giants).

and reject

.

In comment 16590595 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16590594 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 16590560 christian said: Quote: If Garafolo reported: 2024 1st & 3rd, 2025 1st And Simmons is reporting: 2024 1st & 2nd & 3rd, 2025 1st & 2nd & 3rd That's a huge difference. It's well known that teams up their offers when on the clock. Offering the additional #2 and #3 is totally believable and probably likely. And if you note, Hard Knocks did not include any trade talks with he Pats on the clock (or the Vikings, which we know they called the Giants).

It appeared to me that the Wolf/Schoen conversation where Wolf let him know they were not going to trade out took place long before they were on the clock....like before the draft actually started (Schoen was in his office not wearing a suit if I remember correctly.)

In comment 16590602 IchabodGiant said:

Quote:

.

Yep

Doesn’t fit the “narrative”

The broad parameters reported correspond in a lot of ways to the conversation Schoen and Wolf had on Hard Knocks. And in that conversation Schoen is asking, and implying he's offering. He says to Wolf:

Quote:

It'd be 6 this year, a one next year, and then something more this year isn't going to do it? It's got to be multiples in 25?

Quote:

I know the boat you're in, I'm trying to make it attractive.

From that it seems like a bit of a jump in the next four hours to officially go to 1,2,3 in 2024 and 1,2,3 in 2025. But more than anything, Hard Knocks decides not show that?

Eric, that's fair. Who knows why Hard Knocks didn't explain the Vikings offer they teased. As a fan of the team, but also consumer of the made for TV story line, that was lame.

Maybe the Giants vetoed the final offer to the Pats being shown too. But those are the money shots.

on both ends...and I get it.

If you think Maye is the guy, you give whatever you got to make it happen...and if you can take him...you don't trade out of the spot.

I don't think there's much NOT to believe here.

Plenty of teams have given up the farm to get a QB in the draft - sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't...but IMO..it's worth trying every time.

In comment 16590614 christian said:

Quote:

Eric, that's fair. Who knows why Hard Knocks didn't explain the Vikings offer they teased. As a fan of the team, but also consumer of the made for TV story line, that was lame. Maybe the Giants vetoed the final offer to the Pats being shown too. But those are the money shots.

In the HK teaser leading into the FA episode, they made it seem Schoen made an offer to Barkley. So, it's clear things were manipulated.

I get the sense it wasn't Wolf's call. I think Schoen knew that too. If what Simmons is saying is true, I'm encouraged at least. But, still upset seeing the QB depth chart.

that a 2024 1, 2 & 3 and and 2025 1, 2 & 3 was what the Patriots wanted and Schoen correctly rejected that offer.

If Schoen truly did offer 2024 and 2025 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders, he should submit his resignation.

And if the he did make that offer and the Patriots rejected it, then they'll be cellar dwellers for a long time as they're being led by incompetents.

In comment 16590595 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

And if you note, Hard Knocks did not include any trade talks with he Pats on the clock (or the Vikings, which we know they called the Giants).

Right before the draft started, Schoen did his "what-if" walk-through with Mara and Tisch and said the opportunity to move up was off. So, they were focused on WRs, and if the sequence wasn't right, they would move down.

In other words, the opportunity was dead.

In comment 16590630 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16590595 Eric from BBI said: Quote: And if you note, Hard Knocks did not include any trade talks with he Pats on the clock (or the Vikings, which we know they called the Giants). Right before the draft started, Schoen did his "what-if" walk-through with Mara and Tisch and said the opportunity to move up was off. So, they were focused on WRs, and if the sequence wasn't right, they would move down. In other words, the opportunity was dead.

That's a good point. Unless something was edited out, which it probably was not.

In comment 16590456 dd in Mass said:

Quote:

I had heard that was the original asking price from the Pats.

Based on what I'd heard and could glean from tea leaves, I suspect this was correct.

In comment 16590519 christian said:

Quote:

This is a little logically far-fetched. We know four hours before the draft, Wolf and Schoen exchange some broad parameters. In this conversation there's no reference to a standing offer of two year's worth of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks. In fact Wolf comes out and says it would take something like that. And we're to believe Schoen subsequently made an offer like that, and HBO decided not to include that dramatic moment in the program? That would have been the most compelling piece of offseason footage this decade.

Apparently the Giants had a lot of say about what went into the final cut of those episodes, so it could be they didn’t want that offer to get out. It could hurt efforts to move up next year if teams knew how much they offered the Pats.

Again, I’m not assuming that offer was really made. We don’t know where or how Simmons got that intel.

In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB.

I think it has little to do with Maye and everything to do with removing Penix/JJM/Nix from the draft board at #6, even though they ultimately went 8, 10, 12. It's hard to believe our offensive genius coach couldn't work one of them into a good starter.

In comment 16590645 Section331 said:

Quote:

Apparently the Giants had a lot of say about what went into the final cut of those episodes, so it could be they didn’t want that offer to get out. It could hurt efforts to move up next year if teams knew how much they offered the Pats.

Schoen has said this was not true. The only content control they had was making sure their proprietary info - draft board, etc - could not be viewed.

Given Garafolo has direct access to Schoen's brain as reflected in Hard Knocks, my guess is Team Schoen let it be known they offered two firsts and a third.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Team Wolf took Schoen's comments to mean an offer of multiple picks in 2024 and 2025.

Reporting is a game of telephone. I think both reports could be reflective of what each party felt happened.

I’m calling bullshit on this report.

In comment 16590560 christian said:

Quote:

If Garafolo reported: 2024 1st & 3rd, 2025 1st And Simmons is reporting: 2024 1st & 2nd & 3rd, 2025 1st & 2nd & 3rd That's a huge difference.

could also be initial and final offers

In 2022, He was full of praise for Jones, saying that he hated betting against him and that he could succeed in any era. in the 2023 preview episode with cousin Sal, he was making the case that Jones was better than Prescott!

Now in 2024, Jones is a bottom-3 QB who will sink the Giants season in his words.

Listen, I don't think the 2023 season can be dismissed but that's one hell of a swing lmao. On brand for him.

In comment 16590423 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

the Pats were dumb not to accept it. I think Maye can be a good QB, but a trade like that can be franchise altering.

This.

My God, why wouldn't they do this, given the state of that roster?

In comment 16590448 ChrisRick said:

Quote:

This will probably serve well as another example of rumors/news that I want to hear, therefore it is true. I think there as been too much smoke around the supposed trade offer to the Pats for me to deny that Schoen is looking to upgrade the qb and wasn't just 'checking in' to see what the cost was. Regardless, information like this isn't verified as fact.

To me the smoke indicates that Schoen and the Giants felt Maye is a generational talent more than it reveals a strong desire to upgrade the QB position.

Could be called many things over his long and impressive career. Serious football analyst and reporter are not among them.

In comment 16590614 christian said:

Quote:

Eric, that's fair. Who knows why Hard Knocks didn't explain the Vikings offer they teased. As a fan of the team, but also consumer of the made for TV story line, that was lame. Maybe the Giants vetoed the final offer to the Pats being shown too. But those are the money shots.

My guess is the Giants did not want the real offer being broadcast. There is no good to the Giants in letting the world know that.

If you look at his rookie year throwing (minus fumbles) and his playoff year and win vs Vikings 2022 (ball security, legs, efficient) he isn't nearly as bad as people think.

The problem is he gets hurt a lot and he isn't elite. He isn't in the top 5 tier and doesn't have the skills ever to be top 5. However, if you put talent around him like I think we have this year he will produce better than people think.

So just win the first two games and win with big throws down field that garner film and have defenses focused on the deep ball so we can begin to unravel a strong run game that churns. We need a ball control offense that can go over the top easily with deep speed to Nabers, Hyatt and Robinson.

Honestly, if Bellinger becomes that 60-650-5 type guy who gets the easy ones this offense will have the pieces to move the ball IF it stays healthy.

In comment 16590558 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

put to rest the argument that the Giants don't know they have a QB problem? It's out in the open. They were going to give up two drafts to get one.

Maybe they know there's potentially a problem, but they don't know there's potentially more than one solution.

In comment 16590602 IchabodGiant said:

Quote:

.

The words "Bill Simmons" in a thread title somehow can have that effect.

the more they offered

#1- at some point you have to know that you arent getting a deal and are wasting time and that this exposes your organization

How so? Well as people acknowledge this shows we dont like our QB and since you arent getting a trade, this only hurts you

Ex . If you are trying to buy a home and you are pursuing your “dream home “ and you keep offering more & more - beyond what you can reasonably pay but cant an acceptance

And now your lease is up so you have to renew and cant buy a different home

Would anyone say this is smart?

The Pats weren’t accepting a trade to 6 and everyone knew it. It doesn’t reflect well on us that we pursued it to the end and exposed Jones and opened up the fan base to expect a QB

#2- if the Giants felt they needed a QB that bad to make such a big offer to the point you have exposed you are “done” with Jones, then how is it possible you go into the year with no viable alternative?

This is why so many feel so unenthusiastic about the upcoming year

This is how you get Emmanuel Acho saying

“When you walk into an NFL locker room and Daniel Jones is your starting quarterback, you are admitting not just to the 53 players, plus the ten practice squad players, you are admitting to the fans, ‘We are submitting during the season, we are already saying mercy, we are losing.’
“You are betraying the entire organization when you make Daniel Jones the starter, because all of their work is void by starting Daniel Jones. That’s like adding all of the numbers into a calculator and hitting ‘times zero’--you will always end up with zero.”

Simmons doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground. Did Bezos buy the Celtics yet? KD sign with the Knicks?

Most BBI’ers: “They need to do everything they could to trade up and get a QB.”

But Chi, Wash are def taking QBs and NE has just as big or a bigger need than the Giants. Why would they trade back?

Most BBI’ers: “ Because asshat info has them saying they aren’t in love with Maye and want to trade back. So Schoen should do everything possible to get Maye. If that’s who you want, you trade everything you can to get it done.”

Most BBI’ers: “I don’t believe what Schefter, Rapoport, Garafolo and some asshats are reporting. They need to offer more. I know NE def wants to move down. JS is dropping the ball here.”

Most BBI’ers: “I don’t believe what I saw on Hard Knocks. JS sucks. He should’ve tried harder to move up.”

Most BBI’ers: “JS sucks. He loves DJ, gave him the worst contract ever. He doesn’t want to move on from him. It was all BS trying to move up for a QB. We’re in QB hell we’re never going to win. I can’t believe we’re running it back with the same QB.”

Now this report comes out proving Schoen and the Giants wanted to move on from DJ and tried everything they could to up for Maye….
Most BBI’ers:
“I don’t believe Simmons. I’m going to believe all the rumors I heard before and during the draft and what was shown on Hard Knocks.”

“I can’t believe Schoen offered that much. That’s way too much!”

But but but you said you wanted to move up no matter the cost. Schoen tried to get it done but NE said no because they wanted Maye as much if not more than we did. There’s nothing more Schoen could’ve done. Is shows he 100% tried to move on from DJ…

Most BBI’ers: I can’t believe we’re stuck with DJ another year. I can’t believe he didn’t try harder to move up. Garafolo said a 1&2 and a 1 next year. That didn’t get it done. They should’ve offered more. But I can’t believe he offered that much that’s crazy.

That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell around here. Can’t make it up…

That's how teams get better. Was Bellinger butt hurt because they drafted Theo? If so, then use it as motivation to improve, prove who is better. Same for DJ. If he isn't mentally strong enough to handle this then he shouldn't be an NFL QB.

I have no issue walking away from a trade if the price was ridiculous, my issue is the lack of a better Plan B.

In comment 16590752 HardTruth said:

Quote:

the more they offered #1- at some point you have to know that you arent getting a deal and are wasting time and that this exposes your organization How so? Well as people acknowledge this shows we dont like our QB and since you arent getting a trade, this only hurts you Ex . If you are trying to buy a home and you are pursuing your “dream home “ and you keep offering more & more - beyond what you can reasonably pay but cant an acceptance And now your lease is up so you have to renew and cant buy a different home Would anyone say this is smart? The Pats weren’t accepting a trade to 6 and everyone knew it. It doesn’t reflect well on us that we pursued it to the end and exposed Jones and opened up the fan base to expect a QB #2- if the Giants felt they needed a QB that bad to make such a big offer to the point you have exposed you are “done” with Jones, then how is it possible you go into the year with no viable alternative? This is why so many feel so unenthusiastic about the upcoming year This is how you get Emmanuel Acho saying “When you walk into an NFL locker room and Daniel Jones is your starting quarterback, you are admitting not just to the 53 players, plus the ten practice squad players, you are admitting to the fans, ‘We are submitting during the season, we are already saying mercy, we are losing.’ “You are betraying the entire organization when you make Daniel Jones the starter, because all of their work is void by starting Daniel Jones. That’s like adding all of the numbers into a calculator and hitting ‘times zero’--you will always end up with zero.”

That’s a pretty bad take.
1) No matter what they weren’t going far this year regardless. This is still a rebuilding team. There’s glaring needs at CB, DL, backup edge rusher and possibly OL.
2) They were in love with Nabers. He has the chance to be in the same conversation with Chase, Jefferson, Lamb. He’s an elite prospect which they desperately needed on offense.
3) They obviously weren’t high on JJM, Nix or Penix. They had Nabers with a much higher grade. Watching hard knocks there was no other mention of taking a QB. If Nabers went 5, they were trying to trade back and take Bowers. They didn’t believe in the other QBs.
4) DJ still was guaranteed to be on this team this year no matter what. There were no QBs available in a trade or FA that would make us into a contender.


And going back to my first point. It’s still a rebuilding team. They got some nice building blocks in this draft and FA. This wasn’t an all in year. Why was it QB or bust this year? Most teams at the top of the draft don’t need a QB next year. The Raiders and Giants… and possibly the Titans need QBs the most. If DJ is terrible like you all claim he is then we should have a very good shot at the 1st QB taken next year. So say getting Beck, who might be a better prospect than Maye and getting Nabers who’s one of the best WR coming out since Chase this year sets this team up for a good future.

The Holy Grail was included in the deal.

End of story.

but he does have sources, for whatever it's worth.

In comment 16590691 Lambuth_Special said:

Quote:

In 2022, He was full of praise for Jones, saying that he hated betting against him and that he could succeed in any era. in the 2023 preview episode with cousin Sal, he was making the case that Jones was better than Prescott! Now in 2024, Jones is a bottom-3 QB who will sink the Giants season in his words. Listen, I don't think the 2023 season can be dismissed but that's one hell of a swing lmao. On brand for him.

TOTALLY on brand for him, except that he usually does that week-to-week.

with another on-target post.

In comment 16590752 HardTruth said:

Quote:

the more they offered #1- at some point you have to know that you arent getting a deal and are wasting time and that this exposes your organization How so? Well as people acknowledge this shows we dont like our QB and since you arent getting a trade, this only hurts you Ex . If you are trying to buy a home and you are pursuing your “dream home “ and you keep offering more & more - beyond what you can reasonably pay but cant an acceptance And now your lease is up so you have to renew and cant buy a different home Would anyone say this is smart? The Pats weren’t accepting a trade to 6 and everyone knew it. It doesn’t reflect well on us that we pursued it to the end and exposed Jones and opened up the fan base to expect a QB #2- if the Giants felt they needed a QB that bad to make such a big offer to the point you have exposed you are “done” with Jones, then how is it possible you go into the year with no viable alternative? This is why so many feel so unenthusiastic about the upcoming year This is how you get Emmanuel Acho saying “When you walk into an NFL locker room and Daniel Jones is your starting quarterback, you are admitting not just to the 53 players, plus the ten practice squad players, you are admitting to the fans, ‘We are submitting during the season, we are already saying mercy, we are losing.’ “You are betraying the entire organization when you make Daniel Jones the starter, because all of their work is void by starting Daniel Jones. That’s like adding all of the numbers into a calculator and hitting ‘times zero’--you will always end up with zero.”

#2 describes my angst towards the situation. Well articulated HT

In comment 16590691 Lambuth_Special said:

Quote:

In 2022, He was full of praise for Jones, saying that he hated betting against him and that he could succeed in any era. in the 2023 preview episode with cousin Sal, he was making the case that Jones was better than Prescott! Now in 2024, Jones is a bottom-3 QB who will sink the Giants season in his words. Listen, I don't think the 2023 season can be dismissed but that's one hell of a swing lmao. On brand for him.

Well to be fair, a lot of people have swung on Jones from 2022 to now, including apparently our own front office.

are you really comfortable using the word "proves" with this Simmons "report"?

HardTruth...great post.

In comment 16590702 santacruzom said:

Quote:

In comment 16590448 ChrisRick said: Quote: This will probably serve well as another example of rumors/news that I want to hear, therefore it is true. I think there as been too much smoke around the supposed trade offer to the Pats for me to deny that Schoen is looking to upgrade the qb and wasn't just 'checking in' to see what the cost was. Regardless, information like this isn't verified as fact. To me the smoke indicates that Schoen and the Giants felt Maye is a generational talent more than it reveals a strong desire to upgrade the QB position.

Certainly could be. No dispute here.

Here's what we know. Four hours before the draft Schoen and Wolf were trading hypotheticals like the first conversation between a dealer and buyer at the car lot.

Then in the period of time it required to change into a suit and hunt down Daboll and his bosses, he was telling them they weren't trading up.

Maybe he made this Godfather offer while changing his pants. Otherwise I think Simmons is full of it.

In comment 16590586 djm said:

Quote:

what they paid for Eli manning, and the pats still turned it down, I have a bridge to sell you.

one consideration in comparing the offer to the eli trade is that the chargers did get back a top tier QB prospect immediately.
an imaginary tradeup from 3-1 to get caleb williams while including drake maye in the package might be more comparable to eli/rivers trade.
plus qb trade values inflated from 20 years ago. just fwiw.

I cannot understand a plan where the alternatives are:

A. Hope the Pats will trade with us
B. Pay a top five salary cap cost for the worst QB depth chart in the NFL

That's not a plan.

I listened to the podcast (I'm assuming it's the NFC preview with Cousin Sal), and I didn't get the impression Simmons was saying the trade was as steep as indicated in the OP or that he was operating with inside information.

In comment 16590925 Go Terps said:

Quote:

I listened to the podcast (I'm assuming it's the NFC preview with Cousin Sal), and I didn't get the impression Simmons was saying the trade was as steep as indicated in the OP or that he was operating with inside information.

Shocker, right?

Of course, you could be listening to the podcast and drawing a conclusion that fits your "narrative"... ;)

.

In comment 16590938 Sean said:

Quote:

.

Just was about to post that. They think we’re going to be so bad they spent less than 3 minutes on us.

.

In comment 16590935 bw in dc said:

Quote:

I listened to the podcast (I'm assuming it's the NFC preview with Cousin Sal), and I didn't get the impression Simmons was saying the trade was as steep as indicated in the OP or that he was operating with inside information. Shocker, right? Of course, you could be listening to the podcast and drawing a conclusion that fits your "narrative"... ;)

Wait, so no one is conspicuously missing from this thread?

is if JJM was in the top 10 of their draftboard. Once that didn't happen, Kraft backed off his position.

Schoen had 2024 #1, a 2025 #1 and a 2025 #3 on the table. I was told he added another pick on draft day.

The Pats needed a QB and weren't comfortable going with JJM

In comment 16590606 Mbavaro said:

Quote:

In comment 16590602 IchabodGiant said: Quote: . Yep Doesn’t fit the “narrative”

Who is missing that you two want to hear from? You seem to be aligned fairly often.

In comment 16590776 DeVito32 said:

Quote:

That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell around here. Can’t make it up…

And yet you did literally just make all of that up!

There is no such thing as "most BBIers" having one take on this topic. You don't understand what you are reading.

Has no inside info in the Patriots front office. He's just a diehard fan that gets his info from message boards like most of us. I'm not sure why this thread has gone on as long as it did.

In comment 16590888 bw in dc said:

Quote:

are you really comfortable using the word "proves" with this Simmons "report"? HardTruth...great post.

No im not.. but like Eric said, Is it that too far fetched? If you believe Garafolo’s intel, why wouldn’t you think they still tried to up the offer to get it done?

In comment 16590924 Go Terps said:

Quote:

I cannot understand a plan where the alternatives are: A. Hope the Pats will trade with us B. Pay a top five salary cap cost for the worst QB depth chart in the NFL That's not a plan.

If I had to put $ on it, I think Schoen wanted Drake. But he didn't want to give up the farm up for him & he knew John-whose love for Jones will forever confound me-would love if we got another weapon for Jones so there wasn't a ton of pressure on Schoen to move up.

In comment 16590440 M.S. said:

Quote:

Joe Schoen would chase one draft prospect with all that draft capital!

Nobody said they were chasing Maye. they could have been preparing themselves in the event that Daniels slipped to #3.

The Pats could have been serious about trading with the Giants if the redskins took Maye.

So many assumptions here without anyone really knowing anything. The real draft discussions did not happen on camera. Why? The fucking cameraman would have leaked it.

In comment 16590752 HardTruth said:

Quote:

This is how you get Emmanuel Acho saying “When you walk into an NFL locker room and Daniel Jones is your starting quarterback, you are admitting not just to the 53 players, plus the ten practice squad players, you are admitting to the fans, ‘We are submitting during the season, we are already saying mercy, we are losing.’ “You are betraying the entire organization when you make Daniel Jones the starter, because all of their work is void by starting Daniel Jones. That’s like adding all of the numbers into a calculator and hitting ‘times zero’--you will always end up with zero.”

Who gives a flying fuck what Emmanuel Acho has to say? Why not just quote Go Terps or SanFranGiantsFan (or whatever his name is), at least they've seen just about every snap Jones has taken and we know them well enough to put a value on their opinion. But Emmanuel Acho? The name sounded familiar but I had to google him: he's just a retired ballplayer whoring for clicks. At least Go Terps and SFGPQRECfan give a shit about the team!

Insightful but very troubling paradigm. I hadn't considered the implications of "desperation for a quarterback". Especially on DJ's confidence and the state of the locker room.

The amount of pressure mounting on this kid as we enter the season, deserved or not, is not what you want.

In comment 16590998 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

In comment 16590776 DeVito32 said: Quote: That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell around here. Can’t make it up… And yet you did literally just make all of that up! There is no such thing as "most BBIers" having one take on this topic. You don't understand what you are reading.

Go back and read every post and comment since the draft about Schoen not getting a QB and running it back again with DJ. Either they complain Schoen didn’t try hard enough to move up, they don’t believe he offered enough, they pick and choose what asshat or reporter to believe to fit their narrative.

Here’s a fact. Nobody 100% knows the exact final offer to the Pat’s but Schoen & other top Giants execs. Fact#2. Schoen tried to move up for a QB. So he was trying to move on from DJ after this year. Fact#3 DJ was going to be on this team this year no matter what. Fact#4- JJM, Nix, Penix were never options.

And now today, with Simmons report, whether you believe it or not, they’re pissed that they’d give up that much, yet were pissed he didn’t give up enough to move up.

Final fact. The Pats were never trading out of that spot unless they got an unrealistic offer that no GM in their right mind would do. They needed Maye as much if not more than the Giants do. Also the smokescreen that they really preferred JJM over Maye is total bullshit since they didn’t make the trade. They wanted Maye period.

So I’m sick of most people here complaining that Schoen didn’t really want to move on from DJ which is simply not true. He got an elite wr in Nabers and mostly likely will go all in on a QB next year. Yet every pass DJ misses, or Nix, Maye, Penix make will be a shit on DJ and front office post.

You obviously don’t know what you’re reading.. or you haven’t read a thing since the draft.

In comment 16591086 DeVito32 said:

Quote:

Final fact. The Pats were never trading out of that spot unless they got an unrealistic offer that no GM in their right mind would do. They needed Maye as much if not more than the Giants do. Also the smokescreen that they really preferred JJM over Maye is total bullshit since they didn’t make the trade. They wanted Maye period. So I’m sick of most people here complaining that Schoen didn’t really want to move on from DJ which is simply not true. He got an elite wr in Nabers and mostly likely will go all in on a QB next year. Yet every pass DJ misses, or Nix, Maye, Penix make will be a shit on DJ and front office post.

You have no idea if it's a "fact" the Pats were never going to move the 3rd pick. You are guessing because that's what you want the outcome to be to suit your POV.

A strong case can be made that Schoen wanted an insurance policy at QB because he was concerned most about Jones's healthy, not his skills. And he was close enough in the order to at least be in the hunt for a young QB on a rookie contract. He was hoping he could get the stars aligned on his terms.

But not once has/did Schoen ever say his consideration for making a move up had anything to do with Jones's ability to perform. Why the hell do you think he has cited the Minnesota playoff win so frequently? It's always been about Jones's availability to perform.

And that's the problem here for you and your ilk. You can't accept the distinct possibility that Schoen still likes Jones and knows his owner feels similarly. And he was just as content taking Nabers as he was getting Maye on his terms.

He failed, and now he's trotting out the quest group of QBs in the league.

"He tried to trade up for Maye" isn't going to make it ok when they are 3-8 and struggling to put 20 points on the board.

Schoen's handling of QB has been shambolic.

In comment 16591105 Go Terps said:

Quote:

He failed, and now he's trotting out the quest group of QBs in the league. "He tried to trade up for Maye" isn't going to make it ok when they are 3-8 and struggling to put 20 points on the board. Schoen's handling of QB has been shambolic.

Right. I can live with the Jones contract. I'm fine they tried to move up for Maye. What I'm not fine with was there were no other options explored. McCarthy, Nix & Penix all weren't good enough for arguably the worst QB room in the league? Not even a developmental QB.

The QB depth chart is unacceptable.

In comment 16591111 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 16591105 Go Terps said: Quote: He failed, and now he's trotting out the quest group of QBs in the league. "He tried to trade up for Maye" isn't going to make it ok when they are 3-8 and struggling to put 20 points on the board. Schoen's handling of QB has been shambolic. Right. I can live with the Jones contract. I'm fine they tried to move up for Maye. What I'm not fine with was there were no other options explored. McCarthy, Nix & Penix all weren't good enough for arguably the worst QB room in the league? Not even a developmental QB. The QB depth chart is unacceptable.

That's one of the things that bugs me most. They were so high on Maye that they were willing to trade up for him but we're unwilling to take one of the other three even after a trade down to 9.

So they had Maye miles ahead of the other three. Between that questionable scouting assessment, their genius decision to pay Jones, and signing Lock to be the backup...it's starting to look like these QB gurus should be sending their paychecks to Josh Allen.

points:

(1) Schoen tried to move up to #3. He made a fair offer of our #1 this year and a #1 and #3 in 2025. dd in Mass also said that Schoen added another pick on draft day. But the Patriots didn't want to trade the pick. Any initial willingness they might have had to so ended when their own draft board didn't have JJM (and presumably Nix) in the top 10.

(2) Even if the Giants had traded with the Bears, they apparently would have either taken Odunze or Bowers at #9, not JJM or Nix. They had those players, Harrison, Nabers, and probably others ranked ahead of both QBs. It will nonetheless be valid to criticize Schoen for not taking JJM or Nix if either, or both, become franchise QBs. But as of draft day, the Giants, like every other team, not surprisingly stuck to their board and drafted the highest rated player, Nabers.

(3) Taking a developmental QB wasn't really an option this year. I liked Rattler move than most, but agree that his personality likely wouldn't have worked in NY. I also would have put in a waiver claim for Pratt, but he was a seventh round pick, and looks like a better version of Kyle Lauletta. It's defensible to stay with DeVito instead. Milton has a rocket launcher for an arm but has had accuracy issues and lasted until the sixth round.

If Nabers plays like an "Alpha" and the OL provides better pass protection, Jones should be at least average. But he's still likely gone after this season, or the spring of 2026 at the latest. The attempted major move for Maye shows that Schoen and Daboll both want to move on from him. I am sure they will draft a QB next year.

the people that try to act like this trade attempt means we aren’t too committed to a QB that doesn’t have it.

But there are a lot of more important data points that say we aren’t ready to move on from this QB hell

1) His insane contract and our owner doubling down on it even after his horrific season

2) The lack of any legit competition for him

3) The fact that close to where we picked 3 other teams, one with a much better QB than Jones already on saw their future QBs. If the Giants were serious about replacing Jones they take one of those guys

They aren’t serious about it. Why do people even try to grasp at this point?

In comment 16591100 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16591086 DeVito32 said: Quote: Final fact. The Pats were never trading out of that spot unless they got an unrealistic offer that no GM in their right mind would do. They needed Maye as much if not more than the Giants do. Also the smokescreen that they really preferred JJM over Maye is total bullshit since they didn’t make the trade. They wanted Maye period. So I’m sick of most people here complaining that Schoen didn’t really want to move on from DJ which is simply not true. He got an elite wr in Nabers and mostly likely will go all in on a QB next year. Yet every pass DJ misses, or Nix, Maye, Penix make will be a shit on DJ and front office post. You have no idea if it's a "fact" the Pats were never going to move the 3rd pick. You are guessing because that's what you want the outcome to be to suit your POV. A strong case can be made that Schoen wanted an insurance policy at QB because he was concerned most about Jones's healthy, not his skills. And he was close enough in the order to at least be in the hunt for a young QB on a rookie contract. He was hoping he could get the stars aligned on his terms. But not once has/did Schoen ever say his consideration for making a move up had anything to do with Jones's ability to perform. Why the hell do you think he has cited the Minnesota playoff win so frequently? It's always been about Jones's availability to perform. And that's the problem here for you and your ilk. You can't accept the distinct possibility that Schoen still likes Jones and knows his owner feels similarly. And he was just as content taking Nabers as he was getting Maye on his terms.

LOL Are you serious? So you don’t remember this conversation on Hard Knocks? Here’s the article of the conversation. Or go back and re watch the episode. So you not only don’t believe literal footage of the conversation, you don’t believe what Garafolo, Rapoport, several others including the most recent report by Simmons that he tried to move up. We all know for a fact Jones was a guarantee to be on the roster this year. So regardless, Joe Schoen wasn’t going to shit on DJ on hard knocks, in the paper, or anywhere. It’s also possible that he does still believe in DJ. It’s possible that even if they got Maye they would’ve started DJ this year.

But it’s a literal fact Schoen tried to trade up for Maye and the Pats said no unless it was multiple picks in 2024 & 2025.

So it’s actually you who are wrong and trying creat an outcome to suit your POV. And its’s actually the problem here for you and your ilk. You can't accept the distinct possibility that Schoen tried hard to trade up for DJs replacement and wasn’t going to be fleeced. There is a limit to what he would pay and no GM in their right mind would give multiple picks in 2024 and 2025 including both 1s. And that’s why I said it’s a fact the Pats weren’t trading back and were taking Maye. The only way they were trading down is if the deal was unrealistic.

'Hard Knocks': Patriots rejected Giants' draft day trade offer on Maye - ( New Window )

I think it is strange when fans on either side of the aisle (the giants don’t want to move on from Jones! And the It is obvious they want to move on from Jones!) act as if their view is the obvious choice. It is reasonable to believe either one.

if you want to fire someone in any job you line up their replacement.

Not having a viable replacement means you aren’t serious about replacing them.

Logical both ways.

You saw on hard knocks that they moved towards the WR for the draft.

Make the case I’m all ears

Perhaps you don’t have all of the information? Maybe there is more to the story?
Acting as if your view is the only way to look at something is certainly arrogant.

Saying you’re all ears indicates you are open minded. I have not seen anything from you in any of your conversations with others that shows that virtue.

Let us be honest here, you wouldn’t change your mind even if something was proven. Just another poster stirring up shit and probably a dupe as well.

Where did I say Schoen didn't try to trade up? I said the reason why I think he did.

Try reading left to right. RIF.

In comment 16591194 ChrisRick said:

Quote:

Perhaps you don’t have all of the information? Maybe there is more to the story? Acting as if your view is the only way to look at something is certainly arrogant. Saying you’re all ears indicates you are open minded. I have not seen anything from you in any of your conversations with others that shows that virtue. Let us be honest here, you wouldn’t change your mind even if something was proven. Just another poster stirring up shit and probably a dupe as well.

So you making a case is devil’s advocate? That’s the best you got? That shows there isn’t a case. Thanks

I’m not moving on this because I move with the facts and you don’t have them