Contact Info
Administration
Coaching Staff
Coaching History
Annual Records
Hall Of Fame
Retired Jerseys
Ring Of Honor
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| @Schultz_Report Sources: The #Giants brought in CB Adoree' Jackson for a physical today and negotiations are underway on a deal to bring him back. A deal is not done, but the two sides are very interested. The Giants have been looking to add another viable corner. |
On the negative, boy did he make a lot of business decisions last year and he sure doesn't care about supporting in the run game.
If signed, all be guaranteed it's a one year deal and he can make money next year coming off a good season.
The league saw his play in 2023 and effort late in the season. It is his own fault, so sign on somewhere and prove yourself.
Quote:
If he’s signed.
If signed, all be guaranteed it's a one year deal and he can make money next year coming off a good season.
The league saw his play in 2023 and effort late in the season. It is his own fault, so sign on somewhere and prove yourself.
I'm very much hoping that by not landing a long term deal he learned a lesson
On the negative, boy did he make a lot of business decisions last year and he sure doesn't care about supporting in the run game.
Bitey
Not sure about knowing the system. Same DB coach, yes, but new DC is changing schemes and philosophy. Still agree he would be an upgrade.
On the negative, boy did he make a lot of business decisions last year and he sure doesn't care about supporting in the run game.
Agree. On the positive, he knows the systems. On the negative, he sucks.
Quote:
On the positives, he knows the system so will catch on fast and he's a better cover guy at the 2 than anyone on our roster right now.
On the negative, boy did he make a lot of business decisions last year and he sure doesn't care about supporting in the run game.
Bitey
Not sure about knowing the system. Same DB coach, yes, but new DC is changing schemes and philosophy. Still agree he would be an upgrade.
Is it the same scheme as when he was in Tennessee?
Yeah, I guess id prefer to sign a superstar corner too, but as it is, got to find someone whos is a) available and b) shows some interest in signing with the team. Standards go out the window when there is a huge need. It is what it is.
Quote:
In comment 16591384 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
On the positives, he knows the system so will catch on fast and he's a better cover guy at the 2 than anyone on our roster right now.
On the negative, boy did he make a lot of business decisions last year and he sure doesn't care about supporting in the run game.
Bitey
Not sure about knowing the system. Same DB coach, yes, but new DC is changing schemes and philosophy. Still agree he would be an upgrade.
Is it the same scheme as when he was in Tennessee?
Bowen took over for Pees the year after Adoree left, but was on staff when Adoree was there and runs a similar scheme to Pees, so Adoree has played in it and should have a short learning curve.
Quote:
Jeez, where are the standards?
Yeah, I guess id prefer to sign a superstar corner too, but as it is, got to find someone whos is a) available and b) shows some interest in signing with the team. Standards go out the window when there is a huge need. It is what it is.
So no standards, great way to assemble a team. All part of the plan Im sure.
Sure doesn't seem like a Bowen player. There was a period where the eye test said he was willing to attack his run fits, but that more or less disappeared as many have pointed out.
IIRC He CAN tackle and was one of the few who showed up for the Philly playoff game. "Business Decisions" are not cool, but there may be more to that story that we don't know - like shoulder injury.
If motivated like a couple of years ago to try and get another payday - you get a 1CB
Big question to answer however
Bowen wasn't the DC in 2020, it was mainly Vrabel who handled that. Bowen did make the defensive calls.
Yup.
It does, however, reinforce the idea that Schoen is struggling with his drafts.
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on his 1st 2 drafts as he didn't have his personnel department in place, but it bares watching.
Quote:
an act of desperation, or panic.
Yup.
I mean, what else can it be?
On the negative, boy did he make a lot of business decisions last year and he sure doesn't care about supporting in the run game.
Agreed. I said a few weeks ago that I would be really surprised if they brought back Jackson, but their willingness to do so shows what they think of the current state of our CBs after Banks. Despite his performance last year, generating no interest from any other teams, and not being in camp, they still think Jackson is a better #2 CB than anyone else on the roster right now. More proof is that they signed two CBs to the PS. They obviously have little confidence in McCloud, Flott, or Hawkins to be the starting #2 CB, at least right now.
A one year deal with incentives might work, assuming Jackson is motivated by the lack of interest from other teams. And as someone said, he's still only 28.
Quote:
In comment 16591396 Pepe LePugh said:
Quote:
In comment 16591384 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
On the positives, he knows the system so will catch on fast and he's a better cover guy at the 2 than anyone on our roster right now.
On the negative, boy did he make a lot of business decisions last year and he sure doesn't care about supporting in the run game.
Bitey
Not sure about knowing the system. Same DB coach, yes, but new DC is changing schemes and philosophy. Still agree he would be an upgrade.
Is it the same scheme as when he was in Tennessee?
Bowen took over for Pees the year after Adoree left, but was on staff when Adoree was there and runs a similar scheme to Pees, so Adoree has played in it and should have a short learning curve.
sounds good
A motivated (28 year old Jackson) with something to prove and trying to put together 17 games of good tape to get paid is a pretty nice add at this point when the price is likely peanuts.
We should expect at least a low-end legitimate CB2 with upside for better.
That’s how he got hurt in 22. Shouldn’t have had him back there in the first place.
I like it and I don't think it's desperation at all. Well planned, actually. As far as Adoree making business decisions, perhaps he's just a better cover corner than tackler. Not ideal but a lot of good CBs are like that. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if he was dealing with something. He may not be a big hitter but he was certainly willing to stick his nose in there. Not sure what happened.
This is great. No, it's not a top tier CB but at his best, Jackson is pretty darn good and has a lot of incentive to be so again.
@DDuggan21
Didn’t see this coming. Did not hear very favorable reviews from inside the organization on Jackson’s play after last season
Quote:
On the positives, he knows the system so will catch on fast and he's a better cover guy at the 2 than anyone on our roster right now.
On the negative, boy did he make a lot of business decisions last year and he sure doesn't care about supporting in the run game.
Agreed. I said a few weeks ago that I would be really surprised if they brought back Jackson, but their willingness to do so shows what they think of the current state of our CBs after Banks. Despite his performance last year, generating no interest from any other teams, and not being in camp, they still think Jackson is a better #2 CB than anyone else on the roster right now. More proof is that they signed two CBs to the PS. They obviously have little confidence in McCloud, Flott, or Hawkins to be the starting #2 CB, at least right now.
A one year deal with incentives might work, assuming Jackson is motivated by the lack of interest from other teams. And as someone said, he's still only 28.
29 Sept. 18.
Maybe it was him and Wink not getting along, but I'd be amazed if he played hard ever again.
A motivated (28 year old Jackson) with something to prove and trying to put together 17 games of good tape to get paid is a pretty nice add at this point when the price is likely peanuts.
We should expect at least a low-end legitimate CB2 with upside for better.
Should be noted that he played in the slot last year and clearly wasn't very good. He's better suited for the perimeter.
Quote:
On the positives, he knows the system so will catch on fast and he's a better cover guy at the 2 than anyone on our roster right now.
On the negative, boy did he make a lot of business decisions last year and he sure doesn't care about supporting in the run game.
Agree. On the positive, he knows the systems. On the negative, he sucks.
What makes you guys think he knows the system. He was here two years ago under a different DC
If he comes back, I don't see him getting #22 from Dru Phillips. His old number with the Titans, #25, seems to be available. He wore #2 with USC, in the event he can get that from Lock.
Kind of sad that we are beggars. I was hoping that Flott would be able to make the move to CB2 but I guess with his injury in camp the coaches don't feel confident in him.
I think you can seriously question Schoen's decisions here. Based on Hard Knocks, he was banking on a starting-quality outside CB being available in the 2nd round. When does that ever happen?
And then based on the beats' reports, he was hoping that a CB would be available after cut day, but that seems risky as well. And of course nothing materialized.
Quote:
In comment 16591384 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
On the positives, he knows the system so will catch on fast and he's a better cover guy at the 2 than anyone on our roster right now.
On the negative, boy did he make a lot of business decisions last year and he sure doesn't care about supporting in the run game.
Agree. On the positive, he knows the systems. On the negative, he sucks.
What makes you guys think he knows the system. He was here two years ago under a different DC
Where was he before the Giants?
they thought adoree was worth like 11m in new money last year, and he was voted a captain.
he had a terrible season but unless he completely turned into a pumpkin there's got to me some upside there and on a 1 year cheap deal there is no risk.
Quote:
Now that he wouldn’t be our #1 CB, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them using him returning punts.
That’s how he got hurt in 22. Shouldn’t have had him back there in the first place.
I agree about in 22 but he’s a good returner and things have changed with our DB’s since then. We have a CB1 in Banks.
I was just wondering if this was part of their interest now.
Beggars? Jackson is at the top of a group that -- like RBs last year -- has an unusual glut of top talent. If the Giants sign him, it'll be a win-win: he'll get paid "market" which will be far less than had we signed him back in March.
And I think with our new Alpha Dog Burns Adoree won't be making business decisions. The gestalt is different now.
And if that's the case, the secondary goes from questionable and certain early weakness to strengh.
Just smart business and roster planning by the Giants.
Check out today's podcast (shameless plug).
Quote:
That applies to both Adoree and the Giants.
Beggars? Jackson is at the top of a group that -- like RBs last year -- has an unusual glut of top talent. If the Giants sign him, it'll be a win-win: he'll get paid "market" which will be far less than had we signed him back in March.
And I think with our new Alpha Dog Burns Adoree won't be making business decisions. The gestalt is different now.
And if that's the case, the secondary goes from questionable and certain early weakness to strengh.
Just smart business and roster planning by the Giants.
Is this some dry humor Im not familiar with? Like is this a prank?
For the record, I like the signing.
Quote:
We’ve got six CBs. Does one of them go. Hawkins, Flott, McCoud, Simmons? Someone else?
Check out today's podcast (shameless plug).
My guess would be Simmons to the PS.
For the record, I like the signing.
For sure. I didn't say Adoree wasn't (figuratively) a beggar :)
But the Giants aren't.
they thought adoree was worth like 11m in new money last year, and he was voted a captain.
he had a terrible season but unless he completely turned into a pumpkin there's got to me some upside there and on a 1 year cheap deal there is no risk.
I am one of the few here who think he really wasn't all that great in 2022. He wasn't tested because the Giants threw out dreck at CB2, but I don't agree that he was the defensive MVP. I would say that would be McKinney before be fucked his hand up.
Jackson played well against the Titans in game 1, but he had a lot of stinkers too. He was flat-out bad against Dallas and Seattle. Geno Smith (!!!) torched him.
Jackson Advanced Stats 2022 Gamelog- Pro Football Reference. - ( New Window )
Quote:
witherspoon had 1 better year bc jackson was terrible last year, but adoree was the teams defensive mvp in 2022.
they thought adoree was worth like 11m in new money last year, and he was voted a captain.
he had a terrible season but unless he completely turned into a pumpkin there's got to me some upside there and on a 1 year cheap deal there is no risk.
I am one of the few here who think he really wasn't all that great in 2022. He wasn't tested because the Giants threw out dreck at CB2, but I don't agree that he was the defensive MVP. I would say that would be McKinney before be fucked his hand up.
Jackson played well against the Titans in game 1, but he had a lot of stinkers too. He was flat-out bad against Dallas and Seattle. Geno Smith (!!!) torched him. Jackson Advanced Stats 2022 Gamelog- Pro Football Reference. - ( New Window )
every corner in the NFL gets beat occasionally. do you remember what justin jefferson did the first time they played MIN without him and what he did the second time they played?
hawkins is the easy call imo. he is a practice squad player.
i forgot that they put him in the nickel last year. certainly at least in part explains his poor season (along with some business decisions when things went south). hopefully back on the outside he can get back to playing well.
Quote:
In comment 16591477 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
witherspoon had 1 better year bc jackson was terrible last year, but adoree was the teams defensive mvp in 2022.
they thought adoree was worth like 11m in new money last year, and he was voted a captain.
he had a terrible season but unless he completely turned into a pumpkin there's got to me some upside there and on a 1 year cheap deal there is no risk.
I am one of the few here who think he really wasn't all that great in 2022. He wasn't tested because the Giants threw out dreck at CB2, but I don't agree that he was the defensive MVP. I would say that would be McKinney before be fucked his hand up.
Jackson played well against the Titans in game 1, but he had a lot of stinkers too. He was flat-out bad against Dallas and Seattle. Geno Smith (!!!) torched him. Jackson Advanced Stats 2022 Gamelog- Pro Football Reference. - ( New Window )
every corner in the NFL gets beat occasionally. do you remember what justin jefferson did the first time they played MIN without him and what he did the second time they played?
Good point, thanks.
But playing Jackson who sucks anyway, has little interest in making tough tackles and has no future value...what for?
Adding him back to the roster is bad business.
Because it's a shitty outcome, not a good one.
The amount of premium draft picks that the Giants have spend on DBs in the past 10 years is mind-boggling.
They did replace him. He's coming back as CB2, not CB1.
Quote:
very disappointing situation given it's been two years or so since they decided to begin replacing him.
They did replace him. He's coming back as CB2, not CB1.
Shouldn't be back at all.
That’s what I thought.
It's less than a week before the first games start and Adoree is looking for work. That's why he wants to come back. The Giants CBs are a candidate to be the very worst in the NFL. That's why the Giants might be interested in a 28-year old available for peanuts who played like a borderline CB1 only two years ago.
Everyone is aware of what happened last year. When it's 3rd and 7 and we all want the D to get off the field and give our pass rush a chance, I think AJ is worth a shot considering everyone else NYG there has other than Banks.
Quote:
They'll draft a cb next year high
The amount of premium draft picks that the Giants have spend on DBs in the past 10 years is mind-boggling.
+1. Remember taking Sam Beal in the third round of the supplemental draft?
You'll take shit on BBI, from someone, for saying anything -- especially anything positive about a current or to-be Giant whose not am 11-time All Pro or ever made a bad play.
I don't know if this has been confirmed, but I think Hawkins starting was mostly due to Martindale.
Quote:
This staff put him in as a STARTER. He was clearly not ready, still looks clueless out there. They should get some shit for that. WTF were they seeing?
I don't know if this has been confirmed, but I think Hawkins starting was mostly due to Martindale.
Why should they get shit? He impressed in camp. They played him. He didn't rise to the occasion (in his defense, neither did anyone else except Okereke). They benched him. Quickly.
Good job by the staff.
Quote:
They'll draft a cb next year high
The amount of premium draft picks that the Giants have spend on DBs in the past 10 years is mind-boggling.
how do you say that. Are the Giants picking more DB's than other teams with "premium picks". Every year there are like 6 db's drafted in the first round. News flash -- It is a premium position.
I like it and I don't think it's desperation at all. Well planned, actually. As far as Adoree making business decisions, perhaps he's just a better cover corner than tackler. Not ideal but a lot of good CBs are like that. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if he was dealing with something. He may not be a big hitter but he was certainly willing to stick his nose in there. Not sure what happened.
This is great. No, it's not a top tier CB but at his best, Jackson is pretty darn good and has a lot of incentive to be so again.
I have always been an Adoree' Jackson fan and you have laid out a plausible scenario. It would be nice if everything plays out just the way you describe it.
But I don't believe it will. Why? Because your scenario just sounds like everything surrounding Adoree' Jackson has been tied up into a neat little bow. And that's just not real life when it comes to the NFL, especially for guys who have been on the couch and have missed training camp in its entirety. It is also difficult to believe that -- at this stage in his career -- Jackson is going to do a 180 from last season's horrid performance.
I know those names are arbitrary and useless, but as a fan of a certain age adding an old guy at DB just before the season starts invites a certain kind of nostalgia.
Best of luck to Adoree if he signs.
Quote:
We’ve got six CBs. Does one of them go. Hawkins, Flott, McCoud, Simmons? Someone else?
Check out today's podcast (shameless plug).
I know those names are arbitrary and useless, but as a fan of a certain age adding an old guy at DB just before the season starts invites a certain kind of nostalgia.
Best of luck to Adoree if he signs.
28 is old?
I know those names are arbitrary and useless, but as a fan of a certain age adding an old guy at DB just before the season starts invites a certain kind of nostalgia.
Best of luck to Adoree if he signs.
This!
Quote:
They'll draft a cb next year high
The amount of premium draft picks that the Giants have spend on DBs in the past 10 years is mind-boggling.
Spending the picks isn’t the issue alone, in today’s NFL DB is a need for almost every team every year
It’s the whiffing on picks, or failing to develop them or both (at all positions) that’s killed the Giants the past decade
Quote:
Walls and Duerson.
I know those names are arbitrary and useless, but as a fan of a certain age adding an old guy at DB just before the season starts invites a certain kind of nostalgia.
Best of luck to Adoree if he signs.
28 is old?
He'll be 29 Sept. 18.
I recall speculation that both Giants and AJ had a 'if not married by 30, give me a call' type relationship.
Making a premature assumption of a contract, will be interesting if it comes before, or after, the season begins and the vet, on the roster, guarantee is in play.
So why the shock and surprise and especially the outrage?
Jackson and the Giants know exactly what they're getting. If either side could do better, they'd be with someone else.
Quote:
In comment 16591561 aquidneck said:
Quote:
Walls and Duerson.
I know those names are arbitrary and useless, but as a fan of a certain age adding an old guy at DB just before the season starts invites a certain kind of nostalgia.
Best of luck to Adoree if he signs.
28 is old?
He'll be 29 Sept. 18.
Oh well in that case I guess it's time to put him down.
Quote:
That applies to both Adoree and the Giants.
Kind of sad that we are beggars. I was hoping that Flott would be able to make the move to CB2 but I guess with his injury in camp the coaches don't feel confident in him.
I think you can seriously question Schoen's decisions here. Based on Hard Knocks, he was banking on a starting-quality outside CB being available in the 2nd round. When does that ever happen?
And then based on the beats' reports, he was hoping that a CB would be available after cut day, but that seems risky as well. And of course nothing materialized.
Just gets you to wondering if we had traded down a few spots and taken Odunze instead of Nabers whether we could have gained enough ammo to move up in the 2nd and been able to grab one of the available starting-caliber outside CB's instead of waiting and taking Nubin and later Dru Phillips, who is more suited for the slot position. Guess time will tell whether Nabers lights it up enough to make the difference between him and Odunze overshadow what could have equated to a starting outside CB.
Perhaps some of Jacksons issues last year were with Martindale??
Quote:
In comment 16591518 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
They'll draft a cb next year high
The amount of premium draft picks that the Giants have spend on DBs in the past 10 years is mind-boggling.
Spending the picks isn’t the issue alone, in today’s NFL DB is a need for almost every team every year
It’s the whiffing on picks, or failing to develop them or both (at all positions) that’s killed the Giants the past decade
^This. It's not so much the volume of picks, it's the lack of return. The two are of course related because the latter definitely influences the former. We have to keep drafting CBs because we can't properly evaluate which CBs to draft. We've had the same problem with the OL. Having to constantly redraft the same position group is a telltale sign of bad drafting.
Remember DeAndre Baker? We spent three picks on him, including a first.
Quote:
Walls and Duerson.
I know those names are arbitrary and useless, but as a fan of a certain age adding an old guy at DB just before the season starts invites a certain kind of nostalgia.
Best of luck to Adoree if he signs.
28 is old?
Football years are like dog years.
Quote:
In comment 16591564 HBart said:
Quote:
In comment 16591561 aquidneck said:
Quote:
Walls and Duerson.
I know those names are arbitrary and useless, but as a fan of a certain age adding an old guy at DB just before the season starts invites a certain kind of nostalgia.
Best of luck to Adoree if he signs.
28 is old?
He'll be 29 Sept. 18.
Oh well in that case I guess it's time to put him down.
No.
He's just not really 28.
Can he help? Maybe.
Or I could be reading this all wrong.
Like hearing that.
Were the Giants actually looking to sign Witherspoon?
Quote:
to get Witherspoon to sign. Clock is ticking.
Were the Giants actually looking to sign Witherspoon?
I think there's a hint of asshattery here. Hope it proves true
The play where he was trailing the receiver, but stuck his hand out and knocked it away before the WR could catch it and gain a sizeable YAC.
+1. We traded one of the few third round picks we hit on, B.J. Hill, for Billy Price. We also added a seventh round pick to the deal. Fantastic.
week 2 against arizona he played well. allowed 4 rec on 6 targets for 40 yards, no tds.
week 3 his reps were all against Deebo, CMC, kittle. he allowed 4 rec on 7 targets for 77 yards and 1 td to deebo with 1 pbu. again not great but that's not an easy matchup to win. i remember deebo making a bunch of difficult 3rd down catches.
week 4 he faced lockett and jsn, allowed 3 rec on 4 targets for 34 yards.
week 5 he faced tyreek and cedrick wilson, alloed 4/4 for 46 yards, no tds. in a game with a ton of big plays by hill they apparently werent against him (tyreek's 69 yard td was on hawkins, the guy adoree is likely going to replace on the roster).
week 6 against buf he faced diggs/shakir, allowed 4/4 for 63 yards, no tds.
he missed week 7 vs WSH with a neck injury - so up until that that point the 1/3 mark of the season he'd only allowed 1 td to deebo.
week 8 he held lazard to 3/4 for 45 yards - and none of them were in the slot. so it looks like that experiment ended midseason.
week 9 he held davante adams to 1 reception for 6 yards.
weeks 10/11 he was again out with a concussion/neck injury.
week 12 vs NE he only allowed 3 rec on 6 targets for 12 yards.
week 14 he held doubs to 1 rec on 4 targets for 5 yards.
week 15 he gave up his 2nd and final td of the year to juwan johnson which was 23 yards. allowed 4 catches on 4 targets for 74 yards in the game.
week 16 philly he allowed 6 rec on 12 targets for 66 yards with an INT and no tds.
week 17 vs LAR he allowed 6/11 for 135 including an 80 yarder which had 77 rac yards to puka (no tds). id guess that was a missed tackle.
week 18 vs philly he allowed 6/8 for 65 yards no tds.
bottom line we all watched the games and know he wasnt as good as 2022 on the field at at any point. i dont doubt he was making some business decisions along the way - especially after the head/neck injuries. but playing slot those first few weeks was a failed experiment that im sure wasnt his idea. he played the best WRs in the league in those first 10 weeks and held his own - and most importantly unlike hawkins wasnt giving up 50+ yard tds. you cannot roster and play players who give up plays like that regularly, and hawkins tackling is even worse than jacksons (which was at times not bad). this is a no risk add.
Or I could be reading this all wrong.
He won't be getting big money. Second, it's really unlikely a guy who hasn't practice in 8 months is going to play much next Sunday after 3 or 4 practices.
Wouldn't be against it. But bringing in a guy with a big injury history and rushing him into games would be pretty risky.
Quote:
In comment 16591564 HBart said:
Quote:
In comment 16591561 aquidneck said:
Quote:
Walls and Duerson.
I know those names are arbitrary and useless, but as a fan of a certain age adding an old guy at DB just before the season starts invites a certain kind of nostalgia.
Best of luck to Adoree if he signs.
28 is old?
He'll be 29 Sept. 18.
Oh well in that case I guess it's time to put him down.
There is less than nothing that speaks of desperation here. A player is available that might improve the team. Jackson didn't play great last year and had a handful of frustrating misses but he didn't suck. There's tremendous value to the team (any team) in familiar, proven players if they fill a need.
And football is a team sport. Should this signing come to pass we may be stunned at how well he plays when he's really just the same guy surrounded by more talent in a better system and with better leadership.
agreed, should not have come to this and pretty poor reflection that after a full offseason of it as a known area of weakness they let it get to this.
I get that it will happen in a league where such great value is placed on familiarity, but you'd like to do this type of stuff with maybe your 3rd RB, 4th WR, swing T or some other depth position. Not one of your starting corners.
I'm not alarmist by any means, but Schoen and Daboll keep drifting further from their year 1 success in my opinion. The odds are stacked against them having a solid year 3.
if they need an outside corner i think definitely adoree. king has bounced around a lot and i assume it's for good reason. he's been scrapping deals like this one for adoree for several seasons now without sticking anywhere.
if the needed a slot then maybe you go king bc he has played there a lot more.
witherspoon vs adoree is a close call outside either way, witherspoon maybe higher floor, adoree maybe higher ceiling.
Schoen & co. have almost entirely turned over the roster in 3 seasons. We only had 6 picks this past draft (most people believe Burns was worth a 2nd and 5th). As mentioned above, guys like Walls and Madison were older vets added shortly before the season and helped us greatly.
Also, it's been suggested this is a contingency & possibly motivation for Witherspoon. I wouldn't judge this visit just yet.
But on the Giants the league notices.
Let's hope he is all in....as he saw his NFL life reaching the end.
Neither the player, nor the Giants wanted this.....built off of necessity.
Could be a nice 1 year win/win!
Quote:
Indictment in the front office. And not a good one.
agreed, should not have come to this and pretty poor reflection that after a full offseason of it as a known area of weakness they let it get to this.
Depending on if he signs, and for how much, it's quite possibly precisely the opposite: a great move by the FO.
Quote:
Indictment in the front office. And not a good one.
agreed, should not have come to this and pretty poor reflection that after a full offseason of it as a known area of weakness they let it get to this.
Exactly, especially after they knew for two seasons it was heading in this direction.
Quote:
In comment 16591518 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
They'll draft a cb next year high
The amount of premium draft picks that the Giants have spend on DBs in the past 10 years is mind-boggling.
how do you say that. Are the Giants picking more DB's than other teams with "premium picks". Every year there are like 6 db's drafted in the first round. News flash -- It is a premium position.
What exactly are you arguing? Check the Giants draft history in the first three rounds of the draft for the past 10 years and get back to me.
week 2 against arizona he played well. allowed 4 rec on 6 targets for 40 yards, no tds.
week 3 his reps were all against Deebo, CMC, kittle. he allowed 4 rec on 7 targets for 77 yards and 1 td to deebo with 1 pbu. again not great but that's not an easy matchup to win. i remember deebo making a bunch of difficult 3rd down catches.
week 4 he faced lockett and jsn, allowed 3 rec on 4 targets for 34 yards.
week 5 he faced tyreek and cedrick wilson, alloed 4/4 for 46 yards, no tds. in a game with a ton of big plays by hill they apparently werent against him (tyreek's 69 yard td was on hawkins, the guy adoree is likely going to replace on the roster).
week 6 against buf he faced diggs/shakir, allowed 4/4 for 63 yards, no tds.
he missed week 7 vs WSH with a neck injury - so up until that that point the 1/3 mark of the season he'd only allowed 1 td to deebo.
week 8 he held lazard to 3/4 for 45 yards - and none of them were in the slot. so it looks like that experiment ended midseason.
week 9 he held davante adams to 1 reception for 6 yards.
weeks 10/11 he was again out with a concussion/neck injury.
week 12 vs NE he only allowed 3 rec on 6 targets for 12 yards.
week 14 he held doubs to 1 rec on 4 targets for 5 yards.
week 15 he gave up his 2nd and final td of the year to juwan johnson which was 23 yards. allowed 4 catches on 4 targets for 74 yards in the game.
week 16 philly he allowed 6 rec on 12 targets for 66 yards with an INT and no tds.
week 17 vs LAR he allowed 6/11 for 135 including an 80 yarder which had 77 rac yards to puka (no tds). id guess that was a missed tackle.
week 18 vs philly he allowed 6/8 for 65 yards no tds.
bottom line we all watched the games and know he wasnt as good as 2022 on the field at at any point. i dont doubt he was making some business decisions along the way - especially after the head/neck injuries. but playing slot those first few weeks was a failed experiment that im sure wasnt his idea. he played the best WRs in the league in those first 10 weeks and held his own - and most importantly unlike hawkins wasnt giving up 50+ yard tds. you cannot roster and play players who give up plays like that regularly, and hawkins tackling is even worse than jacksons (which was at times not bad). this is a no risk add.
Great research Eric. I’m feeling better now….sign him and cut Hawkins….i would feel better.
Quote:
In comment 16591520 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 16591518 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
They'll draft a cb next year high
The amount of premium draft picks that the Giants have spend on DBs in the past 10 years is mind-boggling.
Spending the picks isn’t the issue alone, in today’s NFL DB is a need for almost every team every year
It’s the whiffing on picks, or failing to develop them or both (at all positions) that’s killed the Giants the past decade
^This. It's not so much the volume of picks, it's the lack of return. The two are of course related because the latter definitely influences the former. We have to keep drafting CBs because we can't properly evaluate which CBs to draft. We've had the same problem with the OL. Having to constantly redraft the same position group is a telltale sign of bad drafting.
Remember DeAndre Baker? We spent three picks on him, including a first.
This exactly, and this was my point (some here--not you and Paulie--are too dense to understand unless it's completely spelled out for them, apparently). The Giants have used 1/3 of their Day 1 and Day 2 picks on DBs because they keep whiffing on guys like Apple, Darrin Thompson, Baker, Beal and Robinson. And I guess Flott if the coaches don't want him starting. Guys that actually hit, like Love and McKinney, they let walk.
The Giants do not feel that they can acquire a front-line CB.
Jackson as the second or third CB is better than Hawkins, Flott, McCloud, or Phillips.
He is not a slot corner but can hold his own, playing on the outside.
His tackling and run support is less than desirable.
The Giants can scheme around his deficiencies.
He is more of a man cover rather than zone CB. But zone coverage is a misnomer. There can be man-coverage within a zone concept. Jackson can be effective if he is used properly.
they easily could have. they visited both tredavious white and darious williams in march, both got reasonable deals. whatever they give adoree + the dead money they are eating from some FA signings they cut already (holmes, mills, jordan phillips) could have paid for them and they can easily create more space if they want right now.
it's clear adoree jackson wasnt a priority for them so that they had to settle instead of getting guys they prioritized as potential upgrades is a swing and miss.
Quote:
Unless you're delusional enough to believe they could have solved Tackle, both guard spots, WR, pass rush, starting CB and RB all in one offseason.
they easily could have. they visited both tredavious white and darious williams in march, both got reasonable deals. whatever they give adoree + the dead money they are eating from some FA signings they cut already (holmes, mills, jordan phillips) could have paid for them and they can easily create more space if they want right now.
it's clear adoree jackson wasnt a priority for them so that they had to settle instead of getting guys they prioritized as potential upgrades is a swing and miss.
Lay out how they could filled every position then. "They easily could have" doesnt cut it. They are right on the cap, every dollar was spent filling other gaping holes. If they got the CB, they probably dont get one of the other positions. It was always realistically going to be a trade off.
Quote:
In comment 16591676 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Unless you're delusional enough to believe they could have solved Tackle, both guard spots, WR, pass rush, starting CB and RB all in one offseason.
they easily could have. they visited both tredavious white and darious williams in march, both got reasonable deals. whatever they give adoree + the dead money they are eating from some FA signings they cut already (holmes, mills, jordan phillips) could have paid for them and they can easily create more space if they want right now.
it's clear adoree jackson wasnt a priority for them so that they had to settle instead of getting guys they prioritized as potential upgrades is a swing and miss.
Lay out how they could filled every position then. "They easily could have" doesnt cut it. They are right on the cap, every dollar was spent filling other gaping holes. If they got the CB, they probably dont get one of the other positions. It was always realistically going to be a trade off.
they are right at the cap by design (see below & link) and i did lay out exactly how they could have filled this particular position that we know they considered a major need in HK with a player we know they liked. so to repeat:
tredavious white's (who they hosted on a FA visit in March) cap # right now is 3.48m for LAR for 1 year, a deal signed in mid-april after the giants meeting. dead money to the vet FAs they've already cut plus whatever they pay adoree will likely equal very close to that same amount. they actually hosted darious williams first, his cap # is slightly higher at 4.6m.
white signed with LAR after nyg gave jalen mills $500k gtd on 3/13, resigned darnay holmes (100k gtd) on march 20th, and just before they signed jordan phillips with $500k guaranteed and matthew adams with 1m guaranteed on 4/12. probably money that had been part of their offer to white that the rams beat, which they could have easily upped if they wanted to. we arent talking about big chunks of $ here.
https://overthecap.com/restructure - ( New Window )
He is more of a vet who can step in if the guys they are pushing cant cut it.
How soon people forget everything else that has or needed to be accomplished. That’s why I value these keyboard gm’s opinions less than a bag of dog crap
EX: Daniel Jones......where is the development?
Why?
Because some aren't jacked up on potentially signing a player who phoned in a number of plays last year? Coupled with the lack of development at the position as well?
Sorry man.
it is all of the above. we never know the exact splits but the coaching staff and scouts share in choosing draft picks.
they knew CB was a big need, we saw them say it on hard knocks. adoree could end up working out very cheaply but they were left scraping bottom of the barrel, and they ended up reuniting with a player they clearly preferred not to have to. another reactive move.
Flott hasnt developed into an *outside* corner, but there were always going to be questions if he could ever be that. He played just about every snap last year at Slot, and he played a lot.
They better not overpay for this knucklehead
I am not ready to get rid of Schoen or Dabs but how many years should they get? I think 5 is about the limit. If you cannot turn this team around in 5 years it will be time for a change. And I think both have 5 year contracts.
Flott literally played a ton last year in the slot, when he was drsfted he was considered a slot guy, thisbyear they are trying him out as the number 2 outside corner, cant sya hr hasnt developed when this is the first year he is playing the position..
Mcfadden has become a starting caliber ILB..
Pinnock was not a drsft pick bit he has become a good safety
Belton everytime he played last year caused a bunch of turnovers
Thibs is becoming a very good edge player and hopefully will take another leap
Wandale has become a very good slot receicer and is tough to cover..
You cant say there has been no development, yeah Neal and Ez3udu are dissapointments, but not every draft pick has been misses
I am not ready to get rid of Schoen or Dabs but how many years should they get? I think 5 is about the limit. If you cannot turn this team around in 5 years it will be time for a change. And I think both have 5 year contracts.
How is being young an excuse? jist because you have zero patience doesnt make it an excuse..
You act like this team has zero talent, they habe aton of talent its just young so what happens to a young secondary? they are going to make mistakes they are going to get beat, does it mean they suck? no they are young...
Quote:
They'll draft a cb next year high
The amount of premium draft picks that the Giants have spend on DBs in the past 10 years is mind-boggling.
Quote:
if Jackson was to be signed?
I am not ready to get rid of Schoen or Dabs but how many years should they get? I think 5 is about the limit. If you cannot turn this team around in 5 years it will be time for a change. And I think both have 5 year contracts.
How is being young an excuse? jist because you have zero patience doesnt make it an excuse..
You act like this team has zero talent, they habe aton of talent its just young so what happens to a young secondary? they are going to make mistakes they are going to get beat, does it mean they suck? no they are young...
5 years should absolutely be a limit. By the same token, 3 years is the reasonable floor. I agree with almost all of Schoen's moves this season, but even if I didn't I wouldn't pronounce him and the team anything but WIP with this a critical year 1 of judgement window.
Re: Adoree, if signed. There's little to judge without a crystal ball. It may be they were OK with what we had, or even better than OK, knowing there'd still be growing pains. And then, with Jackson surprisingly still available, and with leverage and foresight, adding him seems like a better alternative.
Or it could signal real concern with the group, which still doesn't impugn them for giving them a chance. Flott's injury added uncertainty. Like him or not, he was pencilled in as the starter and his injury derailed that -- whether he'd have raised his game or not will never be known.
Quote:
But the development of players from the coaching staff. Flott was a 3rd pick two seasons ago, and he still has not developed into a starting caliber player. Same with Neal and Ezeudu, who were high draft picks.
Flott literally played a ton last year in the slot, when he was drsfted he was considered a slot guy, thisbyear they are trying him out as the number 2 outside corner, cant sya hr hasnt developed when this is the first year he is playing the position..
Mcfadden has become a starting caliber ILB..
Pinnock was not a drsft pick bit he has become a good safety
Belton everytime he played last year caused a bunch of turnovers
Thibs is becoming a very good edge player and hopefully will take another leap
Wandale has become a very good slot receicer and is tough to cover..
You cant say there has been no development, yeah Neal and Ez3udu are dissapointments, but not every draft pick has been misses
Wan'Dale had 60 catches for 525 yards last year. He has all the talent and flashes in the world, but has yet to produce anything tangible.
Are you just baiting the "we need natural grass to replace this horrible turf" crew???? ;)
Shopping hungry
Quote:
In comment 16591726 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
But the development of players from the coaching staff. Flott was a 3rd pick two seasons ago, and he still has not developed into a starting caliber player. Same with Neal and Ezeudu, who were high draft picks.
Flott literally played a ton last year in the slot, when he was drsfted he was considered a slot guy, thisbyear they are trying him out as the number 2 outside corner, cant sya hr hasnt developed when this is the first year he is playing the position..
Mcfadden has become a starting caliber ILB..
Pinnock was not a drsft pick bit he has become a good safety
Belton everytime he played last year caused a bunch of turnovers
Thibs is becoming a very good edge player and hopefully will take another leap
Wandale has become a very good slot receicer and is tough to cover..
You cant say there has been no development, yeah Neal and Ez3udu are dissapointments, but not every draft pick has been misses
Wan'Dale had 60 catches for 525 yards last year. He has all the talent and flashes in the world, but has yet to produce anything tangible.
He cant throw the ball to himself.im not sure what the expectation is here when 90% of BBI agrees that the OL cant support a pass offense and 60% thinks we dont actually have NFL qbs on the roster.
Quote:
mentioned in his latest podcast, this board continues to devolve into a blubbering mess of contrivagty and negativity for ever blade of grass that exists. Insufferable this place has become.
Are you just baiting the "we need natural grass to replace this horrible turf" crew???? ;)
LMAO... that was good.
I agree for draftees and UDFAs. Vets know how to play the position. They just need to pick up the terminology and some nuance. For them it is not rocket science.
Jackson played for Bowen in Tennessee. He had a rough year last year but he’s only 28 and outside last year he’s been a solid cover corner. If he’s motivated, I love the move.
Quote:
In comment 16591777 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16591726 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
But the development of players from the coaching staff. Flott was a 3rd pick two seasons ago, and he still has not developed into a starting caliber player. Same with Neal and Ezeudu, who were high draft picks.
Flott literally played a ton last year in the slot, when he was drsfted he was considered a slot guy, thisbyear they are trying him out as the number 2 outside corner, cant sya hr hasnt developed when this is the first year he is playing the position..
Mcfadden has become a starting caliber ILB..
Pinnock was not a drsft pick bit he has become a good safety
Belton everytime he played last year caused a bunch of turnovers
Thibs is becoming a very good edge player and hopefully will take another leap
Wandale has become a very good slot receicer and is tough to cover..
You cant say there has been no development, yeah Neal and Ez3udu are dissapointments, but not every draft pick has been misses
Wan'Dale had 60 catches for 525 yards last year. He has all the talent and flashes in the world, but has yet to produce anything tangible.
He cant throw the ball to himself.im not sure what the expectation is here when 90% of BBI agrees that the OL cant support a pass offense and 60% thinks we dont actually have NFL qbs on the roster.
Rather then "everybody gets a pass" I'm closer to "blame everybody for the offense not being good."
Quote:
In comment 16591807 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 16591777 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16591726 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
But the development of players from the coaching staff. Flott was a 3rd pick two seasons ago, and he still has not developed into a starting caliber player. Same with Neal and Ezeudu, who were high draft picks.
Flott literally played a ton last year in the slot, when he was drsfted he was considered a slot guy, thisbyear they are trying him out as the number 2 outside corner, cant sya hr hasnt developed when this is the first year he is playing the position..
Mcfadden has become a starting caliber ILB..
Pinnock was not a drsft pick bit he has become a good safety
Belton everytime he played last year caused a bunch of turnovers
Thibs is becoming a very good edge player and hopefully will take another leap
Wandale has become a very good slot receicer and is tough to cover..
You cant say there has been no development, yeah Neal and Ez3udu are dissapointments, but not every draft pick has been misses
Wan'Dale had 60 catches for 525 yards last year. He has all the talent and flashes in the world, but has yet to produce anything tangible.
He cant throw the ball to himself.im not sure what the expectation is here when 90% of BBI agrees that the OL cant support a pass offense and 60% thinks we dont actually have NFL qbs on the roster.
Rather then "everybody gets a pass" I'm closer to "blame everybody for the offense not being good."
Its an oversimplification in both those quotes. Its not one or the other.
Quote:
In comment 16591828 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 16591807 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
In comment 16591777 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16591726 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
But the development of players from the coaching staff. Flott was a 3rd pick two seasons ago, and he still has not developed into a starting caliber player. Same with Neal and Ezeudu, who were high draft picks.
Flott literally played a ton last year in the slot, when he was drsfted he was considered a slot guy, thisbyear they are trying him out as the number 2 outside corner, cant sya hr hasnt developed when this is the first year he is playing the position..
Mcfadden has become a starting caliber ILB..
Pinnock was not a drsft pick bit he has become a good safety
Belton everytime he played last year caused a bunch of turnovers
Thibs is becoming a very good edge player and hopefully will take another leap
Wandale has become a very good slot receicer and is tough to cover..
You cant say there has been no development, yeah Neal and Ez3udu are dissapointments, but not every draft pick has been misses
Wan'Dale had 60 catches for 525 yards last year. He has all the talent and flashes in the world, but has yet to produce anything tangible.
He cant throw the ball to himself.im not sure what the expectation is here when 90% of BBI agrees that the OL cant support a pass offense and 60% thinks we dont actually have NFL qbs on the roster.
Rather then "everybody gets a pass" I'm closer to "blame everybody for the offense not being good."
Its an oversimplification in both those quotes. Its not one or the other.
Sure, that's fair, but your initial statement was "he can't throw the ball to himself," which is also an oversimplification. I don't blame Wan'Dale as much as the O line or QBs but he also can shoulder some of the burden, too.
By young I mean under 30
Bowen's defense requires CBs to be able to tackle well. That does not fit Jackson.
Quote:
The 4 pages of posts before are mostly negative about bringing him back, but he is young. He was really good a couple of years ago. A strong pass rush can help a player like Adoree. I think it would be a good move.
Bowen's defense requires CBs to be able to tackle well. That does not fit Jackson.
You are remember last year more. He was good in 2021 and 2022. He gave up about a 52% completion, only had about a 7.5% miss tackle rate compared to 12.5% in 2023, while having 113 tackle in 23 games for '21/'22 which is pretty good for a CB. He also has only gave up 2 TDs in each of the last 3 years... sign me up for that.