Contact Info
Administration
Coaching Staff
Coaching History
Annual Records
Hall Of Fame
Retired Jerseys
Ring Of Honor
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| The Giants came in strong with an offer $3 to $4 million more than what he eventually accepted. |
Gary Zimmerman didn't want to live and work in the NY area, either. Whatcha gonna do?
Peace of mind is a good thing.
Tax guys earn their money with these guys. It’s got to be a nightmare keeping all that straight since taxes are based on the state in which each game is played
fixed (freakin typos)
I looked up Wisconsin taxes vs. New Jersey taxes and, at a glance, they're fairly similar. I doubt the tax rate made a big difference in his decision. It's not like Wisconsin is one of those no-income-tax states.
Some guys like the big city, some don't.
He also said it was better to wait in FA for a running back because the value was better and he did not stick to that so how are you so sure this is bullshit?
Agreed, if this is true we have the wrong GM.
Quote:
...Jacobs is exactly the type of guy that the Giants didn't want. A RB with significant wear on the tires with declining production.
fixed (freakin typos)
It does seem a bit contradictory. It is the athletic though. Who knows.
Quote:
Schoen specifically said he didn't want a $40 million QB handing off to a RB making $12 million.
He also said it was better to wait in FA for a running back because the value was better and he did not stick to that so how are you so sure this is bullshit?
Really? You don't see the difference to the tune of $10 mill per year.
I also see it as BS. Pay Josh Jacobs more money than Barkley?
Quote:
In comment 16592877 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...Jacobs is exactly the type of guy that the Giants didn't want. A RB with significant wear on the tires with declining production.
fixed (freakin typos)
It does seem a bit contradictory. It is the athletic though. Who knows.
Maybe a rumor spread by his agent to justify why he didn't get a big payday for his client? Kind of like "Hey, I got my guy a big deal, but he didn't want to play in NY!"
Gary Zimmerman didn't want to live and work in the NY area, either. Whatcha gonna do?
Zimmerman was a stud, too. I remember when that happened and Giants fans were NOT happy about it.
Quote:
In comment 16592869 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Schoen specifically said he didn't want a $40 million QB handing off to a RB making $12 million.
He also said it was better to wait in FA for a running back because the value was better and he did not stick to that so how are you so sure this is bullshit?
Really? You don't see the difference to the tune of $10 mill per year.
I also see it as BS. Pay Josh Jacobs more money than Barkley?
You are emotional and make bad points as a result.
I never said there wasn’t a difference in price.
I said that JS went back on another comment he had about RBs so why should we expect him to keep his word on another when faced with other evidence to the contrary?
But yes, after all the talk of not spending big on RBs, this seems unlikely unless there were crazy low guarantees associated with the contract.
Quote:
Schoen specifically said he didn't want a $40 million QB handing off to a RB making $12 million.
He also said it was better to wait in FA for a running back because the value was better and he did not stick to that so how are you so sure this is bullshit?
How is paying Jacobs $15M/year a good value?
Right. Schoen seemed adamant on this.
I like Jacobs better than Barkley because he's a north-south, one-cut back. But he wasn't worth the investment either.
Quote:
In comment 16592877 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...Jacobs is exactly the type of guy that the Giants didn't want. A RB with significant wear on the tires with declining production.
fixed (freakin typos)
It does seem a bit contradictory. It is the athletic though. Who knows.
But the article indicates that Jacobs is the source of that offer. He could be BS’ing.
@rydunleavy
To my understanding -- and we all know I pay a lot of attention to RB contracts -- #Giants never made Josh Jacobs an actual offer.
Jacobs signed with #Packers about an hour before Saquon Barkley signed with #Eagles.
Quote:
He got $12MM per, so the article is suggesting they offered $15-$16MM per. That’s ridiculous and I don’t think it fits with this regime’s philosophy.
It could mean $3-4M more over the course of the contract, not per year.
But yes, after all the talk of not spending big on RBs, this seems unlikely unless there were crazy low guarantees associated with the contract.
You’re right, it does look like the offer was $3-4M more in total, not per year. Still paying Jacob’s 4/$52M sounds pretty crazy given how the SB negotiations went.
You know, champagne, cocaine, and women every night.
2) They valued Jacobs much higher than Saquan. Like significantly higher. Which would be needed to clear a high end RB swap with John Mara for more money. The league also seemed to value Saquan more so the Giants would be outliers.
Probably devoted more words than it needed because it doesn’t track at all.
Quote:
In comment 16592869 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Schoen specifically said he didn't want a $40 million QB handing off to a RB making $12 million.
He also said it was better to wait in FA for a running back because the value was better and he did not stick to that so how are you so sure this is bullshit?
How is paying Jacobs $15M/year a good value?
I didn’t say it was. I’m pointing out that JS said the best FA RB deals happened when you patient to strike a bargain and then the Giants panicked and didn’t do that. Paying Singletary almost twice what he made last year and three times the years coming off a worse season than two seasons ago.
So the point isn’t that Jacobs was a good deal it was that the Giants don’t stick to their plan. (I’d guess due to John Mara’s palpitations)
@rydunleavy
To my understanding -- and we all know I pay a lot of attention to RB contracts -- #Giants never made Josh Jacobs an actual offer.
Jacobs signed with #Packers about an hour before Saquon Barkley signed with #Eagles.
Yeah I’m guessing this is correct. Doesn’t seem like Schoen would do this based on everything he’s said along with his actions.
I feel once Barkley flew the coop, Daboll and Schoen were set with signing Motor.
Part of that is surely going to a "winning" (even if just perceived) franchise. Or in our case, NOT!!
Quote:
In comment 16592886 Orville Redenbacher said:
Quote:
In comment 16592869 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Schoen specifically said he didn't want a $40 million QB handing off to a RB making $12 million.
He also said it was better to wait in FA for a running back because the value was better and he did not stick to that so how are you so sure this is bullshit?
Really? You don't see the difference to the tune of $10 mill per year.
I also see it as BS. Pay Josh Jacobs more money than Barkley?
You are emotional and make bad points as a result.
I never said there wasn’t a difference in price.
I said that JS went back on another comment he had about RBs so why should we expect him to keep his word on another when faced with other evidence to the contrary?
Emotional? You make up bullshit and when I pointed out that getting Singletary at value vs a high price RB is not Schoen going back on his remarks you call me emotional?
You are one strange ranger.
Quote:
Schoen specifically said he didn't want a $40 million QB handing off to a RB making $12 million.
He also said it was better to wait in FA for a running back because the value was better and he did not stick to that so how are you so sure this is bullshit?
He did wait, RBs flew off the board rather quickly when free agency started..The only notable RBs who got less AAV was Ekeler
Signing someone for almost 2X the AAV and 3X the years coming off a worse year is not a good value.
Some of you are so deep into the blue colored glasses it is alarming.
What they were clearly talking about is the kind of approach Houston had to getting Motor on an actual good deal last year. He did nothing to deserve anything more than that deal this year other than his agent knowing the Giants were desperate. A lot of agents seem to know how to do that with the Giants…
Could be.
A friend of mine grew up in a suburb of Albany.
Decades ago he moved to Texas for a couple years. He was asked a couple times if he had ever seen a tree before moving to Texas.
2) Why wasn't there anything on this in hard knocks?
3) Whether true or not, I'm happy it didn't happen. It's too much $. I actually think many will be pleasantly surprised by Singletary (and group).
But the article indicates that Jacobs is the source of that offer. He could be BS’ing.
Yes, it's not good reporting to present a player's version as fact without something solid from another source to back it up.
"Josh Jacob says" should be the headline. And people can take that for what it's worth.
What is the philosophy here?
That said - I do like Jacobs more than Barkley. He's an old school, do everything runner.
Maybe what really happened was, the Giants thought they could bully Saquon into submission with the crafty "positional value argument" to take a below market discount to help pay for the ludicrous contract given to DJ. When that blew up in their face, they tried to get an alternative top flight playmaker, but Jacobs just laughed in their face given what they did to Barkley. So then Schoen was forced to get a second tier running back in Singletary, and actually pay 50% more than what Houston paid last year for an average to below average player. So now the shadows of both Saquon and Jacobs will loom over Singletary's every carry this year.
Another brilliant move to boost locker room morale. Trust the process? My ass.
Quote:
In comment 16592878 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 16592877 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...Jacobs is exactly the type of guy that the Giants didn't want. A RB with significant wear on the tires with declining production.
fixed (freakin typos)
It does seem a bit contradictory. It is the athletic though. Who knows.
Maybe a rumor spread by his agent to justify why he didn't get a big payday for his client? Kind of like "Hey, I got my guy a big deal, but he didn't want to play in NY!"
I could buy that.
they would offer Jacobs such a large contract and nothing to barkley?
Jacobs would turn down THAT MUCH more money because of the market?
My guess is the offer was 8-9 million if they even made an offer at all.
That said, I think they will be fine with Singletary
+1
I feel once Barkley flew the coop, Daboll and Schoen were set with signing Motor.
This is what I think too. It’s entirely possible someone from the Giants staff had a conversation with Jacob’s agents to ask what kind of money they were looking for.
It’s possible said convo included discussion about Jacobs not necessarily loving NYC, concerns about the home turf, and that it might take a premium for NY to sign him away from other interested parties
But that doesn’t equate to the Giants making a firm offer for a few million more per year, that was rejected
And my own opinion here - no fucking way a 26 year old RB is taking a few million less per year. He knows this was likely his last best shot at getting paid
Notable the article’s author isn’t Duggan or Charlotte Carroll, the 2 who cover the Giants for the Athletic. The writer looks to be a NFL generalist
Quote:
I thought as business entity NYG are NY in name only and is NJ based. NJ taxes ain't cheat either, but its not NY taxes.
Tax guys earn their money with these guys. It’s got to be a nightmare keeping all that straight since taxes are based on the state in which each game is played
That's also my understanding. Jacobs could set up residency in FL which has no income tax and then pay income tax to whatever state he plays in on a given play date.
Yeah I believe that one.
Quote:
than the Tri-State Area, there's not a lot the Giants can do about that. Taxes, same, though the extra money might have taken care of that.
Gary Zimmerman didn't want to live and work in the NY area, either. Whatcha gonna do?
Zimmerman was a stud, too. I remember when that happened and Giants fans were NOT happy about it.
Of course not! They could have had Reggie White!
This "report" comes from a supposed interview Jacobs gave where he also said the Chiefs made him a better offer but that he hates them with a passion and wouldn't play there
This could be a case of Pompei just looking for clicks or it could be Jacobs intentionally trolling people - but the question to that would be to ask why
Quote:
In comment 16592863 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
than the Tri-State Area, there's not a lot the Giants can do about that. Taxes, same, though the extra money might have taken care of that.
Gary Zimmerman didn't want to live and work in the NY area, either. Whatcha gonna do?
Zimmerman was a stud, too. I remember when that happened and Giants fans were NOT happy about it.
Of course not! They could have had Reggie White!
This still haunts me.
The story was that Parcells wanted White. Zimmerman became a Hall of Famer and the Giants ended up with terrific players after the trade.
But holy hell, can you imagine that Giants' defense with White?
I stand by my assessment that Daboll is a proponent of RBBC.
That's only $3 million more than Singletary on a 3-year with 2 year out deal. Might the Giants have offered $15MM guaranteed to Jacobs for a similar 2/3 deal? Sure. I wouldn't call that a monster contract.
Agree, I'm calling BS on this one.
This. No way they were giving a RB 4 years either. People would had for ale shit over anything even close to that GB deal.
If Green Bay so chooses, it can be a 2/23M agreement. That would have been a fine commitment for the Giants to make.
If Green Bay so chooses, it can be a 2/23M agreement. That would have been a fine commitment for the Giants to make.
If Green Bay so chooses, it can be a 2/23M agreement. That would have been a fine commitment for the Giants to make.
His guaranteed $$ for year 2 is mostly roster bonus. Yhey can move on if they want. Really it's a one year $12.5MM deal.
If Green Bay so chooses, it can be a 2/23M agreement. That would have been a fine commitment for the Giants to make.
His guaranteed $$ for year 2 is mostly roster bonus. Yhey can move on if they want. Really it's a one year $12.5MM deal.
If Jacobs is cut after 2024, his total cash paid and corresponding cap charges will be 14.8M.
He has a 2024 1.2M salary + 600K workout bonus (that's presumably been earned) + 500K per game roster bonus + 12.5M signing bonus.
The only scenario where Jacobs would have cost them 12.5M is if they cut him during camp.
If he has a complete disaster of a season he'll be cut before the league year begins in 2025. Otherwise they'll keep him for a total incremental cash cost of 8.17M for 2025.
Okay so since this came out, a league source tells me the Giants never made an offer to Jacobs. Apologies for the spikes in blood pressures. And please permit Joe Schoen to see another sunrise.
Welp
Dan Pompei on X - ( New Window )
Quote:
@danpompei
Okay so since this came out, a league source tells me the Giants never made an offer to Jacobs. Apologies for the spikes in blood pressures. And please permit Joe Schoen to see another sunrise.
Welp
Dan Pompei on X - ( New Window )
Freakin' hack.
Quote:
The practical guaranteed cash in his deal is all paid the first 2 years. There are literally no guarantees in year 3 & 4.
If Green Bay so chooses, it can be a 2/23M agreement. That would have been a fine commitment for the Giants to make.
His guaranteed $$ for year 2 is mostly roster bonus. Yhey can move on if they want. Really it's a one year $12.5MM deal.
If Jacobs is cut after 2024, his total cash paid and corresponding cap charges will be 14.8M.
He has a 2024 1.2M salary + 600K workout bonus (that's presumably been earned) + 500K per game roster bonus + 12.5M signing bonus.
The only scenario where Jacobs would have cost them 12.5M is if they cut him during camp.
If he has a complete disaster of a season he'll be cut before the league year begins in 2025. Otherwise they'll keep him for a total incremental cash cost of 8.17M for 2025.
Exactly -- $12.5MM in guaranteed money.
Then asked to have a chance to match.
Now this....
It's not really a 12.5M deal. As the contract stands today if he's on the roster 1 year, it's a 14.8M deal. If he's on the roster 2 years, it's a 23M deal.
Maybe what really happened was, the Giants thought they could bully Saquon into submission with the crafty "positional value argument" to take a below market discount to help pay for the ludicrous contract given to DJ. When that blew up in their face, they tried to get an alternative top flight playmaker, but Jacobs just laughed in their face given what they did to Barkley. So then Schoen was forced to get a second tier running back in Singletary, and actually pay 50% more than what Houston paid last year for an average to below average player. So now the shadows of both Saquon and Jacobs will loom over Singletary's every carry this year.
Another brilliant move to boost locker room morale. Trust the process? My ass.
So basically you made this rant over a false story👍👍👍
Quote:
@danpompei
Okay so since this came out, a league source tells me the Giants never made an offer to Jacobs. Apologies for the spikes in blood pressures. And please permit Joe Schoen to see another sunrise.
Welp
Dan Pompei on X - ( New Window )
Gotta love the guys here defending that it could have been true, lol. Derp!
Quote:
Whether the offer was real or just an initial discussion with his agent, it is another data point indicating the Giants appear to be a rudderless mess. How can you possibly have a roster building thesis based on the religion of positional value, literally pushing out our best playmaker because of the idea that running backs are low value commodities, and then aggressively pursue a less talented running back in Jacobs and offer exactly what Saquon wanted in the first place?
Maybe what really happened was, the Giants thought they could bully Saquon into submission with the crafty "positional value argument" to take a below market discount to help pay for the ludicrous contract given to DJ. When that blew up in their face, they tried to get an alternative top flight playmaker, but Jacobs just laughed in their face given what they did to Barkley. So then Schoen was forced to get a second tier running back in Singletary, and actually pay 50% more than what Houston paid last year for an average to below average player. So now the shadows of both Saquon and Jacobs will loom over Singletary's every carry this year.
Another brilliant move to boost locker room morale. Trust the process? My ass.
So basically you made this rant over a false story👍👍👍
The Giants only denied making him a formal offer. I absolutely believe that Jacobs and/or his agent had this discussion informally and have no doubt about the numbers since they are precisely what Saquon was looking for. Jacobs has no reason to lie. What does he possibly gain by trying to embarrass the Giants? Especially when we are playing their division rival this week.
The truth is, it is irrelevant what is in the media or posted on BBI. Jacobs is teammates with McKinney so whatever actually happened has been long well understood by all of the people who matter - the players in our locker room.
Quote:
In comment 16592957 The Mike said:
Quote:
Whether the offer was real or just an initial discussion with his agent, it is another data point indicating the Giants appear to be a rudderless mess. How can you possibly have a roster building thesis based on the religion of positional value, literally pushing out our best playmaker because of the idea that running backs are low value commodities, and then aggressively pursue a less talented running back in Jacobs and offer exactly what Saquon wanted in the first place?
Maybe what really happened was, the Giants thought they could bully Saquon into submission with the crafty "positional value argument" to take a below market discount to help pay for the ludicrous contract given to DJ. When that blew up in their face, they tried to get an alternative top flight playmaker, but Jacobs just laughed in their face given what they did to Barkley. So then Schoen was forced to get a second tier running back in Singletary, and actually pay 50% more than what Houston paid last year for an average to below average player. So now the shadows of both Saquon and Jacobs will loom over Singletary's every carry this year.
Another brilliant move to boost locker room morale. Trust the process? My ass.
So basically you made this rant over a false story👍👍👍
The Giants only denied making him a formal offer. I absolutely believe that Jacobs and/or his agent had this discussion informally and have no doubt about the numbers since they are precisely what Saquon was looking for. Jacobs has no reason to lie. What does he possibly gain by trying to embarrass the Giants? Especially when we are playing their division rival this week.
The truth is, it is irrelevant what is in the media or posted on BBI. Jacobs is teammates with McKinney so whatever actually happened has been long well understood by all of the people who matter - the players in our locker room.
What does the "playing a division rival" point have to do with any of this? Kinda tossed that in there and I'm confused by it.
Quote:
Schoen specifically said he didn't want a $40 million QB handing off to a RB making $12 million.
He also said it was better to wait in FA for a running back because the value was better and he did not stick to that so how are you so sure this is bullshit?
The fact that the Giants did not formally offer Jacobs a contract does not change the point that Jacobs is making. He simply chose to go to the Packers before the Giants made him that formal offer. Do I believe Jacobs? As I said, he has no reason to lie. Unless a valid reason exists for him to lie publicly about something that could be less relevant to anything that matters to him, and, since the Giants screwed up just about every possible aspect of Saquon's tenure here, I'll continue to give Jacobs the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
Quote:
Really it's a one year $12.5MM deal.
It's not really a 12.5M deal. As the contract stands today if he's on the roster 1 year, it's a 14.8M deal. If he's on the roster 2 years, it's a 23M deal.
Same as any other player. $12.5 million guaranteed = just that. He earned his roster bonus last week. Now he'll earn his salary. Then, after the last game this season, he's owed nothing. Not even his game worn jockstrap.
Like I said, essentially a one year deal.
Presumably his workout bonus was tied to participation in the non-mandatory offseason program, so that's been paid.
As a vested veteran his 2024 salary will be guaranteed the first day of the season.
I'm not disputing the Packers can cut Jacobs after the 2024 and not owe him new cash, but the full cash paid will be 14.8M, not the 12.5M you described. That's the point I'm disputing. The only hypothetical scenario it was essentially a 12.5M deal is if they signed him, then cut him before the season started.
And the real question becomes, how bad of a season would he have to have for the Packers to not elect to pay him 48% less a real cash for 2025.
Presumably his workout bonus was tied to participation in the non-mandatory offseason program, so that's been paid.
As a vested veteran his 2024 salary will be guaranteed the first day of the season.
I'm not disputing the Packers can cut Jacobs after the 2024 and not owe him new cash, but the full cash paid will be 14.8M, not the 12.5M you described. That's the point I'm disputing. The only hypothetical scenario it was essentially a 12.5M deal is if they signed him, then cut him before the season started.
And the real question becomes, how bad of a season would he have to have for the Packers to not elect to pay him 48% less a real cash for 2025.
Like any other player.
Once more with feeling: $12.5MM guaranteed. You can stop now.
Quote:
In comment 16592869 Joey in VA said:
Quote:
Schoen specifically said he didn't want a $40 million QB handing off to a RB making $12 million.
He also said it was better to wait in FA for a running back because the value was better and he did not stick to that so how are you so sure this is bullshit?
How ya feeling now? The author admitted it was shit. Get a read on who understands this whole thing before you call me out. Me 1. Popcorn dick 0.
I’m feeling great. I asked you why you were so sure and pointed out something you either glossed over or missed. If you were more sure you’d come back before your “vindication.” The Giants don’t have much credibility around this stuff because the guy in charge had “palpitations” over this and the GM professed a logical and reasonable approach to FA that wasn’t followed. So is it surprising to hear they did something else not in line with that professed reasonable approach? No. That actually seems highly in line with Mr. Palpitations who clearly still overvalues the position along with his nephew.
Seems like a case where the Giants got embarrassed and they had every reason to be and forced a retraction on a technicality. Whether the offer was official or not I do believe they looked into him seriously. As Mike pointed out he has no reason to lie and the Giants have every reason to be embarrassed.
I care not for your score keeping. I’ve seen you with some major minuses beyond this imagined glorious victory you’ve had here.
If you want to have meaningful discussions about the economics, either be accurate or have the decency to admit when you make a mistake.
Jacobs himself isn't the best relayer of facts. Remember, this is the guy who thinks he can't wear green in Brazil.
The fact that the Giants did not formally offer Jacobs a contract does not change the point that Jacobs is making. He simply chose to go to the Packers before the Giants made him that formal offer. Do I believe Jacobs? As I said, he has no reason to lie. Unless a valid reason exists for him to lie publicly about something that could be less relevant to anything that matters to him, and, since the Giants screwed up just about every possible aspect of Saquon's tenure here, I'll continue to give Jacobs the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
I'd offer that the reason to lie is self-promotion or self aggrandizement. "I took less money to be here, didn't want the noise, taxes or the big city" plays great in cities like Green Bay. The entire article is a puff piece on the player, after all. He's selling himself.
The other reason to lie is that *sometimes people lie* because they're odd. This lie can easily be dismissed and didn't make sense in the context that we had with Hard Knocks, which existed before this Jacobs interview.
Quote:
The point was that Josh Jacobs has no reason to lie here. The only possible reason might be to leak something to distract a locker room immediately prior to a game. In this case, since the Giants are playing the Vikings, he would have no incentive to do so.
The fact that the Giants did not formally offer Jacobs a contract does not change the point that Jacobs is making. He simply chose to go to the Packers before the Giants made him that formal offer. Do I believe Jacobs? As I said, he has no reason to lie. Unless a valid reason exists for him to lie publicly about something that could be less relevant to anything that matters to him, and, since the Giants screwed up just about every possible aspect of Saquon's tenure here, I'll continue to give Jacobs the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
I'd offer that the reason to lie is self-promotion or self aggrandizement. "I took less money to be here, didn't want the noise, taxes or the big city" plays great in cities like Green Bay. The entire article is a puff piece on the player, after all. He's selling himself.
The other reason to lie is that *sometimes people lie* because they're odd. This lie can easily be dismissed and didn't make sense in the context that we had with Hard Knocks, which existed before this Jacobs interview.
The same Josh Jacobs who in part owes his College National Championship ring and future NFL career to Brian Daboll at Alabama, is now lying about Daboll's NFL team to somehow prop himself up? A guy who two years ago was the NFL all pro running back with the second best all time season for the Raiders, only behind Marcus Allen, feels an urgent need to sell himself with an off the charts controversial lie? A guy who is preparing to play against Saquon Barkley on Friday in the first ever NFL game in Sao Paolo tells a lie which, having now trended on social media for three days, is just about the most motivating thing anyone could say to fire up Saquon in this game?
If Jacobs is lying, it is literally the dumbest lie in human history. I think it is more likely that he inadvertently and mistakenly shared a confidential truth with the media that I am guessing he is profusely regretting.
Nope - ( New Window )
But I feel like the idea of desperation isn't very well thought through. Zooming out who is more "desperate"
1) An elite RB at the top of his game just signing a big deal with a playoff contender
2) Members of the media that have lots of choices of storylines heading into a new season
3) A once proud franchise now with the 3rd worst record the last 10 years who just lost a former #2 pick publicly on a TV show where professionals in that field say they embarassed themselves. AND the GM / Owner seemed to want to go in very different directions to a point of palpitations for one of them.
There is an obvious desperate party here and it isn't the media.