If he couldn't pass a physical in March, they could delay releasing him, but there's another $11M guarantee that kicks in the 5th day of the league year, in March.
So, past that point, only $12M rather than $23M would be at stake.
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
If he couldn't pass a physical in March, they could delay releasing him, but there's another $11M guarantee that kicks in the 5th day of the league year, in March.
So, past that point, only $12M rather than $23M would be at stake.
That's dependent on him being able to pass a physical before the next season starts. If they keep him past 5th day, but unable to regain health all guarantees are in play, unless there's a clause that he only gets one or the other. And, if he's on the roster for the first game, his whole salary becomes guaranteed.
This past year, there were legitimate concern that he wouldn't be available for game one. That scenario didn't play out, but if he's in a similar situation next year, it would be very dicey keeping him past March 5th.
In a situation where they're leaning toward releasing him (meaning a bad year), but he's still healthy, it would be foolish to play him down the stretch
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
Worst thing is a mediocre year that convinces them to stick with him.
RE: RE: Inability to pass a physical as of the time
That's dependent on him being able to pass a physical before the next season starts. If they keep him past 5th day, but unable to regain health all guarantees are in play, unless there's a clause that he only gets one or the other. And, if he's on the roster for the first game, his whole salary becomes guaranteed.
This past year, there were legitimate concern that he wouldn't be available for game one. That scenario didn't play out, but if he's in a similar situation next year, it would be very dicey keeping him past March 5th.
In a situation where they're leaning toward releasing him (meaning a bad year), but he's still healthy, it would be foolish to play him down the stretch
The 2025 league year begins on March 12, so the fifth day of league year will be March 16.
The injury guarantee and the non-injury guarantee that kicks in on March 16 are not additive, as OTC makes clear:
Quote:
$23 million of the 2025 base salary is guaranteed for injury at signing, with $12 million of that scheduled to vest into a full guarantee at the start of the 2025 league year.
There is a (slight) inconsistency between OTC and Spotrac on the amount of the vesting full guarantee. Spotrac has it at $11M rather than $12M (and specifying the 5th day).
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
Season hasn't started yet. Best thing is significant improvement on 2022 and a Super Bowl win! Now is the time to believe. We may only have one more week of hope left.
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
Worst thing is a mediocre year that convinces them to stick with him.
Giving him a 7th season off a mediocre year would be truly insane.
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
Worst thing is a mediocre year that convinces them to stick with him.
Giving him a 7th season off a mediocre year would be truly insane.
Problem is, a mediocre year from DJ, could mean a mediocre record for the Giants. And that would put the team out of range to draft one of the top QBs... and lead to a 7th season for DJ, off another Jones-caliber season.
then year 7 is the most likely outcome. Jones rightfully takes a lot of shit from the fans - being shackled to him is a miserable experience- but the guy is a legitimate backup/journeyman level NFL player.
He's not a guy they pulled out of an office or a bar to try playing QB. He's an NFL player. There are loads of guys at that level that can be mediocre when given full time practice reps and unlimited starts. He is one of them.
His history of mediocre play, plus his effective personal branding and ass kissing campaign, got him paid a massive contract and ordained as the permanent starter. If he manages another mediocre year, and the Giants are out or blue chip QB range in the draft, why would 2025 be any different?
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
Worst thing is a mediocre year that convinces them to stick with him.
Giving him a 7th season off a mediocre year would be truly insane.
Problem is, a mediocre year from DJ, could mean a mediocre record for the Giants. And that would put the team out of range to draft one of the top QBs... and lead to a 7th season for DJ, off another Jones-caliber season.
Exactly. Giants could convince themselves that he's the best available option. Short term, maybe. Most of us would agree, hell no, rip the damn band aid off and move on.
The absolute best would be for him to kick ass. Second best is sucking ass.
My belief is the moment they picked Nabers, Jones was all but guaranteed to be a Giant in 2025.
Any injury with a significant rehab (torn ligament, tendon, etc.) from today on means he won't pass a physical in March. That would actually help his chances of sticking in one respect. Meaning, if they've already paid 23M of his 2025 salary, 7M is a small price to pay to keep him if he projects to be ready for camp.
He'd have to be injured at a time or variety that puts his 2025 season in jeopardy for them not to just keep him in my view.
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
Worst thing is a mediocre year that convinces them to stick with him.
Any circumstance that leads the Giants to thinking Jones’ value to the team in 2025 is anything greater that “placeholder until the rookie is ready” is a terrible outcome for the Giants. It will simply push off for another year the date this team becomes a potential contender.
I hope DJ has an amazing year this year. And when it is done, we need to draft his replacement and trade him for anything we can get. No level of play should result in a conclusion that he is an NFL level QB who can be counted on to remain healthy. That horse is out of the barn.
My belief is the moment they picked Nabers, Jones was all but guaranteed to be a Giant in 2025.
Any injury with a significant rehab (torn ligament, tendon, etc.) from today on means he won't pass a physical in March. That would actually help his chances of sticking in one respect. Meaning, if they've already paid 23M of his 2025 salary, 7M is a small price to pay to keep him if he projects to be ready for camp.
He'd have to be injured at a time or variety that puts his 2025 season in jeopardy for them not to just keep him in my view.
I couldn't disagree more. He has to exceed expectations (which are sadly very low) for that to happen IMO. And this HAS to be the actual "no excuses" season. I don't want to hear a single world about the OL, his playmakers, the play calling, etc. it's put up or shut up time
I think Jones would have to be benched or have a phenomenally bad season to not be a Giant in 2025.
The economics of his deal make it very easy to justify him being the bridge quarterback.
He's owed the lowest new cash amount of any year in his deal in 2025. From a cash perspective, the Giants can keep Jones for 1 year at 30M for 2025.
Let's say he's healthy - in March they have to make a 12M down payment on his 2025 salary or cut him. This is before the draft, so he has that leverage. If they draft a quarterback, then it's only an incremental 18M to keep him as the bridge.
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
100% agree! Let's hope he proves 99.6245% of the people on this board wrong.
And gives himself a chance to prove he is a starting caliber QB. If both those things happen, then the organization gets to decide whether they go get another future QB.
If either one of those goals isn’t met, a new QB is a near certainty
I'm a founding member of the Jones Hater Club. But there are only so many times the Giants can choose Jones, before it's illogical to believe they won't choose Jones.
Obvioiusly, the best case scenario is Jones thrives
this year with a better OL, a true #1WR, an athletic TE, a decent RB committee on board. I mean thrives to the point of being a legit top 10 QB who seems to have some staying power. I agree with whoever it was that said, the next best scenario is actually him stinking terribly. Sadly, that may be true. Anything in the middle almost certainly means they have a season similar to last year, where they have enough wins to offer a sliver of hope, but also keep them out of the top spots for the top QBs. An mediocre/OK season likely cements Jones as the QB moving forward.
I'd be very curious to know what the Giants brass really thinks and exactly what kind of season they need to see from him.
To me, they should need to see a modern offense with him
I'm a founding member of the Jones Hater Club. But there are only so many times the Giants can choose Jones, before it's illogical to believe they won't choose Jones.
I think that is a fair statement. I don’t think Jones is being evaluated on whether or not he is a legitimate NFL-level starting QB. I think the front office is looking for definitive proof that he isn’t. In the absence of definitive proof, they will continue to believe it is the rest of the roster’s fault that the offense doesn’t work.
management are giving 6 years to this nothing of a QB,and there's every possibility of a 7th year on top of that. Anyone wondering why the Giants have sucked for years and years...it's this sort of thinking...sticking with Dave Brown the Second for 6 or even 7 years...what a travesty.
management are giving 6 years to this nothing of a QB,and there's every possibility of a 7th year on top of that. Anyone wondering why the Giants have sucked for years and years...it's this sort of thinking...sticking with Dave Brown the Second for 6 or even 7 years...what a travesty.
If Daniel Jones goes 11-6 this year, he will finally achieve the same winning percentage for his career as Dave Brown. And a seventh year to still look forward to! We haven't seen this kind of productivity since "Bluto" Blutarsky's seven year grade point average at Faber College...
If Jones has a middling season & he's brought back, one of two things will be clear: 1) either this team is delusional (one might argue that already) or 2) there's really incentive to win & we're all wasting our time.
Really shows how we were taken to the cleaners. We bid against ourselves and added this ridiculous injury guarantee that is going to have most of us holding our breath every time DJ gets tackled. Even if he’s decent this year, it’ll always be in the back of my mind that one bad hit or foot plant can torpedo next season’s cap.
It is hard to watch JS saying they need to improve backup
There are clearly things going on behind the scenes that echo John Mara's public statements.
Seeing them not improve the backup position coming off a truly abomidable year for Jones makes you wonder what it would take to actually get rid of him.
Take a step back from the Drake Maye thing, the lonesome data point that says they are at all serious about replacing Jones and see:
1) The backup QB position wasn't improved when the GM was clearly identifying that as a strong need going into the offseason
2) The owner for god knows what reason doubles down on an atrocious contract after an abomidable season
The most important decision maker, the owner, dosen't want to replace or challenge Jones and regardless of the other signaling that signal is VERY clear.
This whole Jones situation is the strangest and most horrifying "attempts" to compete I've witnessed as a fan. But what makes it even odder is the fact that it seems like the people that are least enthusiastic about him as a QB are the most realistic about his chances to remain here.
While part of the Jones defense now seems to be "well he's better than anything else out there, they are definitely going to get rid of him if he doesn't perform."
Yeah... So what about all the other times he didn't perform?
He's going to be our QB until the pitchforks come out again. If you wonder why some people are so interested in making sure people have a realistic view of this situation. There you go.
understanding is that there is a $22M cap hit for cutting Jones next year, which would b the highest in team history. That increases to $45M IIRC if his injury guarantee is triggered. His cap hit for 2025 is about $41.5M, which is almost $20M more than the cap hit for releasing him. That and his injury history should be more than enough to justify releasing him after this season unless he has a phenomenal year. Jones won't be "cheap" at $30M if he is mediocre or below average, especially since cutting him would save the Giants almost $20M in cap space.
I also think unless he's fantastic this year, it is in the best interest of Jones and the Giants to part ways. Jones already needs a fresh start, but certainly will if he has yet another mediocre or below average year. Schoen and Daboll also need to be allowed to find and groom their own QB.
I'm still not sure whether Schoen or Mara are more responsible for the disastrous contract the Giants gave Jones. But all we can do right now is go forward. We all hope that Jones has a terrific year that justifies bringing him back for one more season in 2025, but understand that he should be cut next spring if that does not happen.
In simple terms, what is the cap savings of cutting Jones vs cap hit to bringing him back next year?
You can set you'd watch to this point being floated by the state media by late October when we are 2 games put of the #7 seed and Jones is averaging his typical 200 yards/1 TD.
I think Jones would have to be benched or have a phenomenally bad season to not be a Giant in 2025.
I don't think he needs to have a phenomenally bad season, and I think his injury guarantee means he's likely to be on abnormally short leash. If and when it becomes clear this team isn't going to threaten for the playoffs, they're going to pull the plug on him. They CAN'T afford to leave him out there to suffer a serious injury in a lost cause season that will leave them on he hook for his injury guarantee in 2025. Better to put DeVito out there and see to what extent he improves with more game reps.
As much of an effort as we saw Schoen make to trade up for Drake Maye, I can't credit any theories which suggest the team is looking for excuses to hold onto Jones beyond this season. It would take a pretty remarkable season for that to even be on the table.
Shyster and fkap. Schoen already discussed this a couple months back.
Giants could be looking at a lot of big changes at seasons end beyond just the QB which will have an impact. Then you have the draft and FA market. Big TBD.
Saying he needs to have a phenomenal or elite season is not the standard that should be used. He also is not cheap next season if they keep him and you still have the injury clause.
He also is not cheap next season if they keep him and you still have the injury clause.
The new cash commitment to keep Jones for the 2025 season would 30.5M, by far the lowest in his agreement.
A 1-year 30.5M contract would make a quarterback the 20th highest paid QB in 2025 as it stands today.
A 30.5M AAV for context would be 2nd lowest non-rookie AAV among projected starting quarterbacks in 2025. The only player under contract for the 2025 season as a presumptive starter with a lower AAV is Gardner Minshew.
He is not cheap and the injury clause does not go away next season so that is a factor.
His contract does not carry an injury clause for 2026. If he's injured in 2025, no money is guaranteed in 2026.
As a vested veteran, if he's on the roster for the 2025 season, his full salary is guaranteed.
So for all intents and purposes, the injury clause is moot if they choose to keep him on the roster for 2025. He's getting paid that full amount no matter what.
So, in practicality he'd be in the bottom 3rd of compensated quarterbacks and the injury clause would no have impact on his in-year or future compensation.
I think Cap hit is the more relevant consideration
and I don't see Jones as being cheap in 2025. Hurts at least for now is a much cheaper QB though that contract has different risks.
Regardless, I don't think Jones being phenomenal or elite will the standard used moving forward and there are other factors that may come be in play outside of DJ.
Thank you for the IC tidbit regarding 2025 not being a major consideration.
The reason in my view the cash output is the important consideration, the Giants could certainly mimic the risks the Eagles took and park a bunch of money in the future (and either extend or absorb as dead money). The Giants could drive Jones's 2025 cap hit way down if they wanted to.
I don't disagree paying Jones 30M for 2025 (regardless of how they do the cap accounting) is a significant amount of money. But relative to the QB market, it's towards the bottom.
They could certainly go the route of signing a player like Darnold or Brissett in the 10-12M range instead.
There's a wide range to mediocre, and much of that is subjective. The lower end of the spectrum is, IMO, not worth bringing back at the currently scheduled amount.
Although we're talking catastrophic injury with the clause, lesser injuries come into play as well. What if he misses another 3 or 4 (or more) games and heals? He would cement his status as a QB whose availability is questionable. On top of mediocrity, that's not a good trait.
Even taking into account the notion of 'why wouldn't they bring him back, since they've done so time and again' (and really, it has been only once that they had to make the choice, so far), I don't think putrid is the only scenario he gets the boot.
under contract for 2025 aside from Jones. Regardless of how the season plays out, if the Giants draft a QB in the next draft, Jones will almost certainly be back in 2025 as opposed to starting the rookie week 1.
The argument Christian just put forth is the argument for why Jones stays the starter in 2025 as opposed to letting him go and grabbing a Darnold or Brissett to keep the seat warm.
Fkap, the other and arguably more important component is timing.
Let's say Jones has a middling season, the Giants go 7-10, but Daboll and Schoen keep their jobs.
A month before the draft they have to decide whether to make a 12M deposit on Jones for 2025. They won't be picking high enough to 100% ensure they get their desired prospect at QB, so there will likely be enough certainty to make that down payment.
And then what happens if they come out of the draft without a blue chip QB? Are they going to cut Jones over 18M if they aren't highly confident they have a bona fide replacement?
I think there are plenty of good counter arguments, but I believe the timing and the economics end up being just as important as his play.
situation will be as big of a factor as to what the Giants do in 2025 at the QB position. Jones is not the only one who will have to earn the right to stay.
Fkap, the other and arguably more important component is timing.
Let's say Jones has a middling season, the Giants go 7-10, but Daboll and Schoen keep their jobs.
A month before the draft they have to decide whether to make a 12M deposit on Jones for 2025. They won't be picking high enough to 100% ensure they get their desired prospect at QB, so there will likely be enough certainty to make that down payment.
And then what happens if they come out of the draft without a blue chip QB? Are they going to cut Jones over 18M if they aren't highly confident they have a bona fide replacement?
I think there are plenty of good counter arguments, but I believe the timing and the economics end up being just as important as his play.
Absolutely, there's a lot of moving parts, and a lot of it is subjective, and a lot depends on who is doing the thinking. You and I can agree on the 'facts', and each of us will interpret them differently.
7-10, for example, is too simplistic. Maybe DJ played at the higher end of middling, and a 10-7 season slipped away because of, say, defense. I guarantee a huge portion of BBI will blame DJ for not playing good enough to overcome an iffy defense, while some will say he played good enough to win. The bottom line is what Schoen/Daboll think of his play. IF they align with the 'should have played better' crowd, they might decide dumping DJ, and changing jockeys (gives an excuse) might give them better job security than going into the following year with another same old -same old sub-par W-L likelihood.
If he couldn't pass a physical in March, they could delay releasing him, but there's another $11M guarantee that kicks in the 5th day of the league year, in March.
So, past that point, only $12M rather than $23M would be at stake.
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
If he couldn't pass a physical in March, they could delay releasing him, but there's another $11M guarantee that kicks in the 5th day of the league year, in March.
So, past that point, only $12M rather than $23M would be at stake.
That's dependent on him being able to pass a physical before the next season starts. If they keep him past 5th day, but unable to regain health all guarantees are in play, unless there's a clause that he only gets one or the other. And, if he's on the roster for the first game, his whole salary becomes guaranteed.
This past year, there were legitimate concern that he wouldn't be available for game one. That scenario didn't play out, but if he's in a similar situation next year, it would be very dicey keeping him past March 5th.
In a situation where they're leaning toward releasing him (meaning a bad year), but he's still healthy, it would be foolish to play him down the stretch
Quote:
we haven't played a down of football yet LOL
I agree!
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
Worst thing is a mediocre year that convinces them to stick with him.
That's dependent on him being able to pass a physical before the next season starts. If they keep him past 5th day, but unable to regain health all guarantees are in play, unless there's a clause that he only gets one or the other. And, if he's on the roster for the first game, his whole salary becomes guaranteed.
This past year, there were legitimate concern that he wouldn't be available for game one. That scenario didn't play out, but if he's in a similar situation next year, it would be very dicey keeping him past March 5th.
In a situation where they're leaning toward releasing him (meaning a bad year), but he's still healthy, it would be foolish to play him down the stretch
The 2025 league year begins on March 12, so the fifth day of league year will be March 16.
The injury guarantee and the non-injury guarantee that kicks in on March 16 are not additive, as OTC makes clear:
There is a (slight) inconsistency between OTC and Spotrac on the amount of the vesting full guarantee. Spotrac has it at $11M rather than $12M (and specifying the 5th day).
Quote:
we haven't played a down of football yet LOL
I agree!
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
Season hasn't started yet. Best thing is significant improvement on 2022 and a Super Bowl win! Now is the time to believe. We may only have one more week of hope left.
The injury guarantee is a valid question to discuss.
Quote:
In comment 16593167 fish3321 said:
Quote:
we haven't played a down of football yet LOL
I agree!
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
Worst thing is a mediocre year that convinces them to stick with him.
Giving him a 7th season off a mediocre year would be truly insane.
Quote:
In comment 16593179 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 16593167 fish3321 said:
Quote:
we haven't played a down of football yet LOL
I agree!
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
Worst thing is a mediocre year that convinces them to stick with him.
Giving him a 7th season off a mediocre year would be truly insane.
Problem is, a mediocre year from DJ, could mean a mediocre record for the Giants. And that would put the team out of range to draft one of the top QBs... and lead to a 7th season for DJ, off another Jones-caliber season.
He's not a guy they pulled out of an office or a bar to try playing QB. He's an NFL player. There are loads of guys at that level that can be mediocre when given full time practice reps and unlimited starts. He is one of them.
His history of mediocre play, plus his effective personal branding and ass kissing campaign, got him paid a massive contract and ordained as the permanent starter. If he manages another mediocre year, and the Giants are out or blue chip QB range in the draft, why would 2025 be any different?
Quote:
In comment 16593181 fkap said:
Quote:
In comment 16593179 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 16593167 fish3321 said:
Quote:
we haven't played a down of football yet LOL
I agree!
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
Worst thing is a mediocre year that convinces them to stick with him.
Giving him a 7th season off a mediocre year would be truly insane.
Problem is, a mediocre year from DJ, could mean a mediocre record for the Giants. And that would put the team out of range to draft one of the top QBs... and lead to a 7th season for DJ, off another Jones-caliber season.
Exactly. Giants could convince themselves that he's the best available option. Short term, maybe. Most of us would agree, hell no, rip the damn band aid off and move on.
The absolute best would be for him to kick ass. Second best is sucking ass.
Any injury with a significant rehab (torn ligament, tendon, etc.) from today on means he won't pass a physical in March. That would actually help his chances of sticking in one respect. Meaning, if they've already paid 23M of his 2025 salary, 7M is a small price to pay to keep him if he projects to be ready for camp.
He'd have to be injured at a time or variety that puts his 2025 season in jeopardy for them not to just keep him in my view.
Quote:
In comment 16593167 fish3321 said:
Quote:
we haven't played a down of football yet LOL
I agree!
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
Worst thing is a mediocre year that convinces them to stick with him.
Any circumstance that leads the Giants to thinking Jones’ value to the team in 2025 is anything greater that “placeholder until the rookie is ready” is a terrible outcome for the Giants. It will simply push off for another year the date this team becomes a potential contender.
I hope DJ has an amazing year this year. And when it is done, we need to draft his replacement and trade him for anything we can get. No level of play should result in a conclusion that he is an NFL level QB who can be counted on to remain healthy. That horse is out of the barn.
Any injury with a significant rehab (torn ligament, tendon, etc.) from today on means he won't pass a physical in March. That would actually help his chances of sticking in one respect. Meaning, if they've already paid 23M of his 2025 salary, 7M is a small price to pay to keep him if he projects to be ready for camp.
He'd have to be injured at a time or variety that puts his 2025 season in jeopardy for them not to just keep him in my view.
I couldn't disagree more. He has to exceed expectations (which are sadly very low) for that to happen IMO. And this HAS to be the actual "no excuses" season. I don't want to hear a single world about the OL, his playmakers, the play calling, etc. it's put up or shut up time
I'm calling my shot now. If week 1 is bad Banks and or Papa will lash out at the fans for their negativity impacting his play. Just watch
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Barring a phenomenal season from Jones, I don’t think he’s back in ‘25.
I'm calling my shot now. If week 1 is bad Banks and or Papa will lash out at the fans for their negativity impacting his play. Just watch
That is not much of a prediction. Banks and Papa will be in full Baghdad Bob mode from the opening snap of the season.
The economics of his deal make it very easy to justify him being the bridge quarterback.
He's owed the lowest new cash amount of any year in his deal in 2025. From a cash perspective, the Giants can keep Jones for 1 year at 30M for 2025.
Let's say he's healthy - in March they have to make a 12M down payment on his 2025 salary or cut him. This is before the draft, so he has that leverage. If they draft a quarterback, then it's only an incremental 18M to keep him as the bridge.
All of these factors really help him.
I think the Giants planned for this to be a 3/112M deal all along.
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we haven't played a down of football yet LOL
I agree!
But for the sake of the thread's intent to figure out the future possibilities I'll add lets hope he plays 17 or more games at a high level. High enough where keeping him is plausible even if we decide to draft a QB round 1 this next draft which we may. You need to develop guys and Jones would understand.
Best thing is solid play and a winning season.
Worst thing is another few bad games and an injury.
If Jones is crap its over and we cut him but yes it makes a big difference if he is healthy or not.
100% agree! Let's hope he proves 99.6245% of the people on this board wrong.
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The timing of the DJ payments is important. That looks like yet another mistake Schoen made in the negotiations. Or maybe it was Abrams.
I think the Giants planned for this to be a 3/112M deal all along.
He's had 4 or 5 games in 5 seasons and we're already greasing the skids for year 7 lol
If either one of those goals isn’t met, a new QB is a near certainty
I'd be very curious to know what the Giants brass really thinks and exactly what kind of season they need to see from him.
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we haven't played a down of football yet LOL
The injury guarantee is a valid question to discuss.
I think that is a fair statement. I don’t think Jones is being evaluated on whether or not he is a legitimate NFL-level starting QB. I think the front office is looking for definitive proof that he isn’t. In the absence of definitive proof, they will continue to believe it is the rest of the roster’s fault that the offense doesn’t work.
Oh wait...they didn't. Where is Wentz?
If Daniel Jones goes 11-6 this year, he will finally achieve the same winning percentage for his career as Dave Brown. And a seventh year to still look forward to! We haven't seen this kind of productivity since "Bluto" Blutarsky's seven year grade point average at Faber College...
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In comment 16593167 fish3321 said:
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we haven't played a down of football yet LOL
The injury guarantee is a valid question to discuss.
It certainly is. Will it effect Daboll's offensive game plan using designed QB runs?
It's a valid and extremely vital question to ask. How much longer do you want the Giants to repeat the same mistake?
There are clearly things going on behind the scenes that echo John Mara's public statements.
Seeing them not improve the backup position coming off a truly abomidable year for Jones makes you wonder what it would take to actually get rid of him.
Take a step back from the Drake Maye thing, the lonesome data point that says they are at all serious about replacing Jones and see:
1) The backup QB position wasn't improved when the GM was clearly identifying that as a strong need going into the offseason
2) The owner for god knows what reason doubles down on an atrocious contract after an abomidable season
The most important decision maker, the owner, dosen't want to replace or challenge Jones and regardless of the other signaling that signal is VERY clear.
This whole Jones situation is the strangest and most horrifying "attempts" to compete I've witnessed as a fan. But what makes it even odder is the fact that it seems like the people that are least enthusiastic about him as a QB are the most realistic about his chances to remain here.
While part of the Jones defense now seems to be "well he's better than anything else out there, they are definitely going to get rid of him if he doesn't perform."
Yeah... So what about all the other times he didn't perform?
He's going to be our QB until the pitchforks come out again. If you wonder why some people are so interested in making sure people have a realistic view of this situation. There you go.
I also think unless he's fantastic this year, it is in the best interest of Jones and the Giants to part ways. Jones already needs a fresh start, but certainly will if he has yet another mediocre or below average year. Schoen and Daboll also need to be allowed to find and groom their own QB.
I'm still not sure whether Schoen or Mara are more responsible for the disastrous contract the Giants gave Jones. But all we can do right now is go forward. We all hope that Jones has a terrific year that justifies bringing him back for one more season in 2025, but understand that he should be cut next spring if that does not happen.
Link - ( New Window )
You can set you'd watch to this point being floated by the state media by late October when we are 2 games put of the #7 seed and Jones is averaging his typical 200 yards/1 TD.
I don't think he needs to have a phenomenally bad season, and I think his injury guarantee means he's likely to be on abnormally short leash. If and when it becomes clear this team isn't going to threaten for the playoffs, they're going to pull the plug on him. They CAN'T afford to leave him out there to suffer a serious injury in a lost cause season that will leave them on he hook for his injury guarantee in 2025. Better to put DeVito out there and see to what extent he improves with more game reps.
As much of an effort as we saw Schoen make to trade up for Drake Maye, I can't credit any theories which suggest the team is looking for excuses to hold onto Jones beyond this season. It would take a pretty remarkable season for that to even be on the table.
Giants could be looking at a lot of big changes at seasons end beyond just the QB which will have an impact. Then you have the draft and FA market. Big TBD.
Saying he needs to have a phenomenal or elite season is not the standard that should be used. He also is not cheap next season if they keep him and you still have the injury clause.
The new cash commitment to keep Jones for the 2025 season would 30.5M, by far the lowest in his agreement.
A 1-year 30.5M contract would make a quarterback the 20th highest paid QB in 2025 as it stands today.
A 30.5M AAV for context would be 2nd lowest non-rookie AAV among projected starting quarterbacks in 2025. The only player under contract for the 2025 season as a presumptive starter with a lower AAV is Gardner Minshew.
His contract does not carry an injury clause for 2026. If he's injured in 2025, no money is guaranteed in 2026.
As a vested veteran, if he's on the roster for the 2025 season, his full salary is guaranteed.
So for all intents and purposes, the injury clause is moot if they choose to keep him on the roster for 2025. He's getting paid that full amount no matter what.
So, in practicality he'd be in the bottom 3rd of compensated quarterbacks and the injury clause would no have impact on his in-year or future compensation.
Regardless, I don't think Jones being phenomenal or elite will the standard used moving forward and there are other factors that may come be in play outside of DJ.
Thank you for the IC tidbit regarding 2025 not being a major consideration.
I don't disagree paying Jones 30M for 2025 (regardless of how they do the cap accounting) is a significant amount of money. But relative to the QB market, it's towards the bottom.
They could certainly go the route of signing a player like Darnold or Brissett in the 10-12M range instead.
There's a wide range to mediocre, and much of that is subjective. The lower end of the spectrum is, IMO, not worth bringing back at the currently scheduled amount.
Although we're talking catastrophic injury with the clause, lesser injuries come into play as well. What if he misses another 3 or 4 (or more) games and heals? He would cement his status as a QB whose availability is questionable. On top of mediocrity, that's not a good trait.
Even taking into account the notion of 'why wouldn't they bring him back, since they've done so time and again' (and really, it has been only once that they had to make the choice, so far), I don't think putrid is the only scenario he gets the boot.
The argument Christian just put forth is the argument for why Jones stays the starter in 2025 as opposed to letting him go and grabbing a Darnold or Brissett to keep the seat warm.
Let's say Jones has a middling season, the Giants go 7-10, but Daboll and Schoen keep their jobs.
A month before the draft they have to decide whether to make a 12M deposit on Jones for 2025. They won't be picking high enough to 100% ensure they get their desired prospect at QB, so there will likely be enough certainty to make that down payment.
And then what happens if they come out of the draft without a blue chip QB? Are they going to cut Jones over 18M if they aren't highly confident they have a bona fide replacement?
I think there are plenty of good counter arguments, but I believe the timing and the economics end up being just as important as his play.
Let's say Jones has a middling season, the Giants go 7-10, but Daboll and Schoen keep their jobs.
A month before the draft they have to decide whether to make a 12M deposit on Jones for 2025. They won't be picking high enough to 100% ensure they get their desired prospect at QB, so there will likely be enough certainty to make that down payment.
And then what happens if they come out of the draft without a blue chip QB? Are they going to cut Jones over 18M if they aren't highly confident they have a bona fide replacement?
I think there are plenty of good counter arguments, but I believe the timing and the economics end up being just as important as his play.
Absolutely, there's a lot of moving parts, and a lot of it is subjective, and a lot depends on who is doing the thinking. You and I can agree on the 'facts', and each of us will interpret them differently.
7-10, for example, is too simplistic. Maybe DJ played at the higher end of middling, and a 10-7 season slipped away because of, say, defense. I guarantee a huge portion of BBI will blame DJ for not playing good enough to overcome an iffy defense, while some will say he played good enough to win. The bottom line is what Schoen/Daboll think of his play. IF they align with the 'should have played better' crowd, they might decide dumping DJ, and changing jockeys (gives an excuse) might give them better job security than going into the following year with another same old -same old sub-par W-L likelihood.