We broke the 500 subscriber mark so we will be giving away a mini NY Giants helmet (or another team of the winners choice).
We recorded this last night and then I put it together to post- finished around 12:30 this morning.
After all off season, Hard Knocks, the draft, Eric and I deciding to get the band back together and then putting these videos together- it was such a air out of the balloon moment last Sunday. I try not to be full doom and gloom but it is getting harder and harder not to head that way.
We went long on this last night and honestly we could have gone longer easily. The frustration of the last 13 years is just overwhelming as a fan.. As Eric said, his kids and my kids have never seen this team win with any consistency and not during their more "aware" years for sure..
We broke the 500 subscriber mark so we will be giving away a mini NY Giants helmet (or another team of the winners choice).
We recorded this last night and then I put it together to post- finished around 12:30 this morning.
After all off season, Hard Knocks, the draft, Eric and I deciding to get the band back together and then putting these videos together- it was such a air out of the balloon moment last Sunday. I try not to be full doom and gloom but it is getting harder and harder not to head that way.
We went long on this last night and honestly we could have gone longer easily. The frustration of the last 13 years is just overwhelming as a fan.. As Eric said, his kids and my kids have never seen this team win with any consistency and not during their more "aware" years for sure..
I'm proofing Sy's game review now... He used the same Chuck Knoblauch analogy you did.
We broke the 500 subscriber mark so we will be giving away a mini NY Giants helmet (or another team of the winners choice).
We recorded this last night and then I put it together to post- finished around 12:30 this morning.
After all off season, Hard Knocks, the draft, Eric and I deciding to get the band back together and then putting these videos together- it was such a air out of the balloon moment last Sunday. I try not to be full doom and gloom but it is getting harder and harder not to head that way.
We went long on this last night and honestly we could have gone longer easily. The frustration of the last 13 years is just overwhelming as a fan.. As Eric said, his kids and my kids have never seen this team win with any consistency and not during their more "aware" years for sure..
I'm proofing Sy's game review now... He used the same Chuck Knoblauch analogy you did.
We broke the 500 subscriber mark so we will be giving away a mini NY Giants helmet (or another team of the winners choice).
We recorded this last night and then I put it together to post- finished around 12:30 this morning.
After all off season, Hard Knocks, the draft, Eric and I deciding to get the band back together and then putting these videos together- it was such a air out of the balloon moment last Sunday. I try not to be full doom and gloom but it is getting harder and harder not to head that way.
We went long on this last night and honestly we could have gone longer easily. The frustration of the last 13 years is just overwhelming as a fan.. As Eric said, his kids and my kids have never seen this team win with any consistency and not during their more "aware" years for sure..
Some years we get the entertainment from what happens on the field.
Some years we get the entertainment from what happens off the field.
Just trying to help center you.
Yahoo Sports Power Rankings After Week 1 Have the Giants at #31,
31. New York Giants
"It's hard to feel good about anything with the Giants after that opener. General manager Joe Schoen, head coach Brian Daboll and quarterback Daniel Jones should all be worried. Also, a defense that allowed Sam Darnold to torch it might be a real problem all season."
IMO, something is just not adding up with this Giants team. It's one thing to get blown out by a Super Bowl contender, but Minnesota? The Giants may not have the greatest personnel, but they played below their talent this past Sunday. Football is such an emotional/momentum sport and the Giants looked stiff and slow right out of the gate. Are the players wondering why Joe Schoen kept Daniel Jones and let Saquon Barkley walk? Have the players tuned out Brian Daboll? Had the team lost faith in their signal-caller before the season even started? Did the players watch Hard Knocks and decide that Joe Schoen is an A-hole? What f-ing gives with this team???
I get we are going for a full housecleaning and I'm good with that, but I think you substantially underrated the role of Mara in all of this, particularly the Jones part. Now, Schoen may love Jones. But he may not. I don't think he had any choice in the matter because of Mara. I'm still fine with firing him, but a lot of this stuff goes straight to the top. And Schoen has done a pretty bad job with the non-QB stuff too.
This is more speculative, but Daboll to me looks like a beaten man whose career is shackled to a bum that he didn't choose. BD may or may not be a good coach but I don't think he's a moron. He sees the Jones stuff. And admittedly this is armchair analysis, but he looks like he knows it's over because of choices beyond his control.
This team isn't going to go 2-15. The important thing is going to be to remember how we all feel right now if they win some meaningless games to cobble together a 7-10 record.
Because I promise you if that happens Jones will be the quarterback again next year, and Schoen and Daboll will be back.
And I 100% agree with this fan base tuning out. I’m not even sure I’m going to watch the WFT game this Sunday if other plans come up. The Giants don’t deserve 3 hours of my attention, especially if the weather is nice.
Here’s the thing: what does significant improvement mean to Mara??
A 7-10 record sucks imv and not significant improvement.
I hate Daboll’s country club training camps. Team is unprepared to play football.
Joint practice with Jets was a waste of time with no intensity. A joke!!!
I actually feel like Daboll is somewhat disinterested with Jones as his starting QB.
He should have been more demanding about getting his QB pre draft.
I think you’re on target here. Something doesn’t quite add up. And don’t tell me it’s anything to do with Hard Knocks. Never seen such ridiculous criticism. But have no clue why this team looks this bad. They play below their talent level. The obvious is coaching but I have no clue.
This team isn't going to go 2-15. The important thing is going to be to remember how we all feel right now if they win some meaningless games to cobble together a 7-10 record.
Because I promise you if that happens Jones will be the quarterback again next year, and Schoen and Daboll will be back.
See I will disagree with that last part only because I felt (said already) that i think Schoen and Daboll are moving off Jones at the end of this year regardless. Now, your counter argument would be if that is true why bother with him at all now.
I am beginning to think they knew their cap pieces would be tight and that explains the juggling now without touching Jones's money. I know Eric got all heated when I brought this but my point was if the Giants touched Jones's money that would be the easiest way to get a LOT of space BUT that would mean he is staying longer. The Giants have not touched Jones's money and in fact have gone back to AT and DL multiple times to make some cap space. The idea clearly is to make sure his money can be cleared up this off season..
The negative to looking for a QB is quite frankly there will be at least 6 and possibly up to 10 teams legitimately looking for a QB (stopgap or long term) this upcoming off season. The Giants I think will go long term over stopgap but it all depends on the wins this year. If they cobble together 7-9 wins then maybe a VET for a year or two with a lower round QB pick is the way to go. I doubt that though, I think we go after the QB in the draft in RD 1.
Another opening day debacle, IMO, feels like a changing of the guard. As bad as the last decade has been, through all of it, i feel like Washington has still managed to be the cellar dweller of this division. I think that's changed now. We are the new official bottom feeder. We are a shjt franchise, and there's really no promise that it's ever going to change.
Laughed out loud when my wife brings me another beer.
I only did the insert of the BBI poster of the week once because the file was so big it was taking forever to load. That one took 1:15 minutes to load after IO added the intro and the one BBI poster of the week graphic.
This team isn't going to go 2-15. The important thing is going to be to remember how we all feel right now if they win some meaningless games to cobble together a 7-10 record.
Because I promise you if that happens Jones will be the quarterback again next year, and Schoen and Daboll will be back.
You can get to 7-10 and save about $35M.
I don't think John is correct about seeing this in practice
I said all along that we weren't going to know for sure until the bullets were firing live for real. Jones had a good camp last year. He finished strong this year. The issues are psychological and you are only going to see them on Sundays. You don't hear footsteps when your teammates can't hit you and sacks are only "wood be" sacks. This was always a distinct possibility, because this is what we saw from him last year. The hope was that in the time off he got his head straight. Clearly he didn't. So now we'll turn to Lock or Tommy, but the sooner the better.
RE: Here’s the thing: what does significant improvement mean to Mara??
"I actually feel like Daboll is somewhat disinterested with Jones as his starting QB."
This. Daboll wants to throw the ball downfield, get big chunks of yardage, pressure the defense. Is there a worse QB in football to try and do that with than DJ?
one small point of feedback. I have been letting my young kids listen to this podcast with me as they come out. Has been a great way for us to bond over the Giants. Couple in grade school, one in middle school.
Unfortunately, we had to cut this one off early because of the language.
However, I totally get the frustration, and I don't want you guys to adjust the format; it's great when you guys speak from your heart, and not try to hold things back. So, if the podcast is geared more towards adults, I get it.
I'll listen on my own; sounds like this episode is going to be a doozy!
Thank you for all the hard work you guys put into this.
one small point of feedback. I have been letting my young kids listen to this podcast with me as they come out. Has been a great way for us to bond over the Giants. Couple in grade school, one in middle school.
Unfortunately, we had to cut this one off early because of the language.
However, I totally get the frustration, and I don't want you guys to adjust the format; it's great when you guys speak from your heart, and not try to hold things back. So, if the podcast is geared more towards adults, I get it.
I'll listen on my own; sounds like this episode is going to be a doozy!
Thank you for all the hard work you guys put into this.
Gottcha.... and duly noted moving forward.
RE: RE: Here’s the thing: what does significant improvement mean to Mara??
"I actually feel like Daboll is somewhat disinterested with Jones as his starting QB."
This. Daboll wants to throw the ball downfield, get big chunks of yardage, pressure the defense. Is there a worse QB in football to try and do that with than DJ?
As Eric and John pointed out, DeVito is not an answer, but we saw last year he will throw the ball down the field. The clock on Daboll's career as an NFL coach may be ticking down now. I don't know why he is not at least trying to run the offense he keeps saying he wants to run.
He can't run that offense with Jones. If Schoen or Mara won't sign off on benching Jones, he should re-sign. If you can't stop the ship from sinking, you head to the life rafts.
I feel like the Commanders are going to beat the piss out of the Giants. Getting outclassed by a rookie qb in his second start with the prospect of having to face Myles Garrett in week 3 might be enough to relegate Jones to the bench to avoid being on the hook for an injury.
"I actually feel like Daboll is somewhat disinterested with Jones as his starting QB."
This. Daboll wants to throw the ball downfield, get big chunks of yardage, pressure the defense. Is there a worse QB in football to try and do that with than DJ?
As Eric and John pointed out, DeVito is not an answer, but we saw last year he will throw the ball down the field. The clock on Daboll's career as an NFL coach may be ticking down now. I don't know why he is not at least trying to run the offense he keeps saying he wants to run.
He can't run that offense with Jones. If Schoen or Mara won't sign off on benching Jones, he should re-sign. If you can't stop the ship from sinking, you head to the life rafts.
I kept saying it over and over, "What are we doing?"
Jones can't throw short and he won't throw long. And they have him running into the line on designed plays.
The fans don't want to see him take another snap. That's not me. It's the stadium.
Haha. Yeah, perhaps Eric should have said @ the beginning...'This is going to be R rated in terms of language. Don't have the kids listen!'
But I think he vocalized what 99.9% of us feel. We're sick & tired of this shit. We're fed up. We're beaten down. I don't want to hear excuses from the Howard Cross' & Dottinos of the world. Enough gaslighting.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Here’s the thing: what does significant improvement mean to Mara??
I have to admit I'm openly rooting for losses now. Because of they eke out a win in Washington (completely possible) the tenor of the conversation of going to change and the self-delusion will return.
I said the same thing about the dangers of actually winning in Washington with Daniel. That's why I want him benched now. There's no upside to playing Daniel at this point. None.
Either blow them out, or lose. Squeaking out an ugly win would be like our beating NE a year ago --no reason to feel good about it, and it costs the franchise.
I doubt that though, I think we go after the QB in the draft in RD 1.
Didn't we just spend the whole offseason saying you don't draft a QB just to draft a QB?
If they're in the exact same draft position they were just in, are they supposed to take QB4 over WR1?
I hear ya BUT we have WR 1 now, we have OT 1, quite frankly I think we gambled this year and lost. I think the love for Maye was real but the Pats weren't ever going to budge. I think the Giants (and I think Dottino hinted at this which may mean it was more true than I first thought)_ that bringing in a lower QB prospect (over the more widely regarded WR) in a year that Jones is playing no matter what would invite huge boo birds and calls for the "rookie, the unknown". If that is truly why we did what we did then yes, this group is effed and they are planning, playing and coaching scared..
Spot on in both content and emotion. Thank you Eric for quickly pivoting this program from a cheerleading paradigm to a Nightline vigil. Love your passionate energy and empathic frustration for all of us in complete disgust with this franchise.
I said the same thing about the dangers of actually winning in Washington with Daniel. That's why I want him benched now. There's no upside to playing Daniel at this point. None.
Agreed. There is only downside. (He might get hurt, which could trigger his $23M injury guarantee.)
I said the same thing about the dangers of actually winning in Washington with Daniel. That's why I want him benched now. There's no upside to playing Daniel at this point. None.
I'm with you, I would bench him right now. Let Lock get his feet wet vs a weak Wash D. At least Lock will be trying those passes when the receivers are open, rather than pumping until the defender shows up
I doubt that though, I think we go after the QB in the draft in RD 1.
Didn't we just spend the whole offseason saying you don't draft a QB just to draft a QB?
If they're in the exact same draft position they were just in, are they supposed to take QB4 over WR1?
I hear ya BUT we have WR 1 now, we have OT 1, quite frankly I think we gambled this year and lost. I think the love for Maye was real but the Pats weren't ever going to budge. I think the Giants (and I think Dottino hinted at this which may mean it was more true than I first thought)_ that bringing in a lower QB prospect (over the more widely regarded WR) in a year that Jones is playing no matter what would invite huge boo birds and calls for the "rookie, the unknown". If that is truly why we did what we did then yes, this group is effed and they are planning, playing and coaching scared..
Colin said the same thing when you interviewed him - that bringing in a better QB than Lock was undesirable for the impact it would have on Daniel.
I hope Daniel plays all 17 games, and I hope he plays them all like he did against Minnesota. It's what they deserve.
all of the fans last year saying "You can't force a QB" and what they would like to see this year. Can you force a QB this year because you didn't last year?
The QB position in not about finding John Elway or bust, and of Elway is not available you take BPA. The Giants don't have someone who can play the position on the roster and they need to fix that. If that guy plays two years an you need to get another one? You do that!
This team needs a QB who has the potential to at least play at an NFL-average level. That should be the bar, not "Franchise Savior."
all of the fans last year saying "You can't force a QB" and what they would like to see this year. Can you force a QB this year because you didn't last year?
The QB position in not about finding John Elway or bust, and of Elway is not available you take BPA. The Giants don't have someone who can play the position on the roster and they need to fix that. If that guy plays two years an you need to get another one? You do that!
This team needs a QB who has the potential to at least play at an NFL-average level. That should be the bar, not "Franchise Savior."
If I were the GM I'd clear out the QB room, sign a vet like Darnold and draft 2 QBs.
I doubt that though, I think we go after the QB in the draft in RD 1.
Didn't we just spend the whole offseason saying you don't draft a QB just to draft a QB?
If they're in the exact same draft position they were just in, are they supposed to take QB4 over WR1?
I hear ya BUT we have WR 1 now, we have OT 1, quite frankly I think we gambled this year and lost. I think the love for Maye was real but the Pats weren't ever going to budge. I think the Giants (and I think Dottino hinted at this which may mean it was more true than I first thought)_ that bringing in a lower QB prospect (over the more widely regarded WR) in a year that Jones is playing no matter what would invite huge boo birds and calls for the "rookie, the unknown". If that is truly why we did what we did then yes, this group is effed and they are planning, playing and coaching scared..
Colin said the same thing when you interviewed him - that bringing in a better QB than Lock was undesirable for the impact it would have on Daniel.
I hope Daniel plays all 17 games, and I hope he plays them all like he did against Minnesota. It's what they deserve.
The funny thing is that for years, one of the things the DJFC has shouted from the rooftops is that Jones is built for NY. Unlike all of the other mentally weak pussies that play QB in the NFL, Jones can take he heat that comes with playing in NY. How many times did people compare him to Eli because "he can handle NY".
Well what happened to that? If he is so built for NY, is so mentally tough, why has the entire organization been terrified to even slightly challenge him? If he can handle NY, unlike all of these other QBs, why would they be so worried about the idea that he might have to compete for and win the job (so much so that the team and Lock had to publicly declare that Jones was the unquestioned starter)?
RE: Yahoo Sports Power Rankings After Week 1 Have the Giants at #31,
31. New York Giants
"It's hard to feel good about anything with the Giants after that opener. General manager Joe Schoen, head coach Brian Daboll and quarterback Daniel Jones should all be worried. Also, a defense that allowed Sam Darnold to torch it might be a real problem all season."
IMO, something is just not adding up with this Giants team. It's one thing to get blown out by a Super Bowl contender, but Minnesota? The Giants may not have the greatest personnel, but they played below their talent this past Sunday. Football is such an emotional/momentum sport and the Giants looked stiff and slow right out of the gate. Are the players wondering why Joe Schoen kept Daniel Jones and let Saquon Barkley walk? Have the players tuned out Brian Daboll? Had the team lost faith in their signal-caller before the season even started? Did the players watch Hard Knocks and decide that Joe Schoen is an A-hole? What f-ing gives with this team???
The level of frustration in that podcast equals mine....a fan since 1966 who has lived through the good and bad times equally. This is like the fumble. How are the fans and the players supposed to trust who Mara hires?
McAdoo, Shurmur, Gettleman, Schoen, Daboll, the list goes on. These are clearly people not able to do the job they represented themselves as being able to do.
It is clear from watching other teams wheel and deal, make their teams stronger, work the cap, celebrate their fans and put a team out there that gives hope and optimism; we are in the desert without shade, water or any mode of transportation.
So when I hear your frustration, Eric....That is all our frustration right now!
And for Daboll to say that Jones is starting again....against one of the many QB's that were slated to be first round picks; this will only further drive our desperation and confirm this organization is the worst in organized sports.
that Eric actually evoked the "He Who Should Not Be Named" former HC.
Here's a ridiculous thought, did the play calling suck, because Daboll has been told to give DJ a chance, and he knows that the DJ situation is beyond repair? Give him a vanilla playbook, because you know he's going to suck?
Hopefully the Jones experiment ends during the next game (not due to injury please), and we see the play calling improve.
all of the fans last year saying "You can't force a QB" and what they would like to see this year. Can you force a QB this year because you didn't last year?
The QB position in not about finding John Elway or bust, and of Elway is not available you take BPA. The Giants don't have someone who can play the position on the roster and they need to fix that. If that guy plays two years an you need to get another one? You do that!
This team needs a QB who has the potential to at least play at an NFL-average level. That should be the bar, not "Franchise Savior."
If I were the GM I'd clear out the QB room, sign a vet like Darnold and draft 2 QBs.
Completely on board with that approach. I do like the idea of taking one QB in the first round and a developmental guy later in the 5th or 6th round. Make a statement that the guy who plays the best will start.
Playing QB for the Giants should become a right that is earned, not a crown that is bestowed.
all of the fans last year saying "You can't force a QB" and what they would like to see this year. Can you force a QB this year because you didn't last year?
The QB position in not about finding John Elway or bust, and of Elway is not available you take BPA. The Giants don't have someone who can play the position on the roster and they need to fix that. If that guy plays two years an you need to get another one? You do that!
This team needs a QB who has the potential to at least play at an NFL-average level. That should be the bar, not "Franchise Savior."
If I were the GM I'd clear out the QB room, sign a vet like Darnold and draft 2 QBs.
Completely on board with that approach. I do like the idea of taking one QB in the first round and a developmental guy later in the 5th or 6th round. Make a statement that the guy who plays the best will start.
Playing QB for the Giants should become a right that is earned, not a crown that is bestowed.
The big fear is that the next QB will get the same long leash. Even if they move on from Jones, the fundamental problem remains.
I said the same thing about the dangers of actually winning in Washington with Daniel. That's why I want him benched now. There's no upside to playing Daniel at this point. None.
So if you see it, why can't an NFL head coach see it?
It's a problem - I hope I am wrong because I don't think Daboll is performing right now.
Gameday has his imprint all over it, from playcalling to who is actually playing.
all of the fans last year saying "You can't force a QB" and what they would like to see this year. Can you force a QB this year because you didn't last year?
The QB position in not about finding John Elway or bust, and of Elway is not available you take BPA. The Giants don't have someone who can play the position on the roster and they need to fix that. If that guy plays two years an you need to get another one? You do that!
This team needs a QB who has the potential to at least play at an NFL-average level. That should be the bar, not "Franchise Savior."
If I were the GM I'd clear out the QB room, sign a vet like Darnold and draft 2 QBs.
Exactly, there are other options besides drafting a QB in the first round and starting him if he isn't ready. Draft 1, hell draft 2 that you think have potential. Sign a vet and start him until someone else is ready. That is what I hoped they would do last year.
Couldn't be much worse than the garbage we are seeing now and at least it might be some hope for the future.
I do have one piece of advice. Eric, you keep talking over and interrupting John. There were a few points he couldn't finish that were interesting. I get it... You were obviously fired up for this one, but just letting you know in case you're looking for constructive feedback.
Smart analysis, but in a fan friendly/empathetic delivery.
I’m no podcast expert, but my only bit of technical feedback would be to try to talk over each other a little less
Yeah, this one was more "emotion" filled, which makes it a little harder to be the conductor. We have it so we both have points and subjects we want etc but I am the conductor, lead in, lead out etc. but last night was a bit more fire driven so that did make it harder for both of us. I will keep that in mind for the next video.
I do have one piece of advice. Eric, you keep talking over and interrupting John. There were a few points he couldn't finish that were interesting. I get it... You were obviously fired up for this one, but just letting you know in case you're looking for constructive feedback.
but I 100% disagree with the idea tat anyone other than John Mara is why Jones is still starting. That is not to absolve Schoen for not bringing in a better backup, but EVERYTHING that has happened with the QB position reeks of Mara.
I don't necessarily have an issue with going into the season with Jones as the starter, but even if you think he could be a competent QB, the very fact of his injury history should have precluded bringing in more talent. Then on top of that, the entire dog and pony show to make Lock go up to assure everyone (reassuring one person really) that Jones was the starter. Does anyone think Schoen or Daboll really cared? Or did Mara get his panties in a twist that people may think Jones isn't the starter.
I think Schoen could have convinced Mara that a trade-up to get Maye would still have allowed Jones to be the starter. But the decision not to bring in a decent backup QB is a fireable offense, and that is 100% on Schoen. How you decide to put ALL of your eggs in the Jones basket, if only for his injury history, was utterly foolish.
I have to admit I'm openly rooting for losses now. Because of they eke out a win in Washington (completely possible) the tenor of the conversation of going to change and the self-delusion will return.
This team has not only been terrible, but also terrible at sucking. We always manage to win some shit meaningless games and lost out on top QB slots in the draft. The best thing for us right now is to go full rock bottom.
the idea that if Mara really was the one not allowing a QB change, then Schoen or Daboll should call him out. That simply is not going to happen. Eric is correct when he says that none of McAdoo/Shurmur/Judge got HC jobs again, but you know what each of them got? Coordinator jobs.
If Daboll went public, he wouldn’t get hired as a ball boy. Now, he’s made plenty of money, he doesn’t NEED to work again, but let’s face it, these guys love the lifestyle. The camaraderie, the access, first class travel, hell, McAdoo worked as an unpaid advisor for a year! Daboll’s not giving that up.
the idea that if Mara really was the one not allowing a QB change, then Schoen or Daboll should call him out. That simply is not going to happen. Eric is correct when he says that none of McAdoo/Shurmur/Judge got HC jobs again, but you know what each of them got? Coordinator jobs.
If Daboll went public, he wouldn’t get hired as a ball boy. Now, he’s made plenty of money, he doesn’t NEED to work again, but let’s face it, these guys love the lifestyle. The camaraderie, the access, first class travel, hell, McAdoo worked as an unpaid advisor for a year! Daboll’s not giving that up.
Guys that the Giants fire have a habit of dropping off the face of the earth. I wonder if ownership is somehow making it hard for these guys to get jobs. We see people get fired and rehired elsewhere all the time.
Guys that the Giants fire have a habit of dropping off the face of the earth. I wonder if ownership is somehow making it hard for these guys to get jobs. We see people get fired and rehired elsewhere all the time.
Shurmur and Judge got coordinator jobs almost immediately, that McAdoo didn’t makes me wonder if the Mara’s bad-mouthed him for having the temerity to bench Eli?
It's really sad, as a fan, that getting two or three first downs on a drive and then punting the ball feels like a victory. Crossing midfield feels like an accomplishment. How pathetic. Ownership has destroyed the fan base, myself included.
the idea that if Mara really was the one not allowing a QB change, then Schoen or Daboll should call him out. That simply is not going to happen. Eric is correct when he says that none of McAdoo/Shurmur/Judge got HC jobs again, but you know what each of them got? Coordinator jobs.
If Daboll went public, he wouldn’t get hired as a ball boy. Now, he’s made plenty of money, he doesn’t NEED to work again, but let’s face it, these guys love the lifestyle. The camaraderie, the access, first class travel, hell, McAdoo worked as an unpaid advisor for a year! Daboll’s not giving that up.
You're correct.
I don't agree with this. The defensive coordinator that just embarrassed our offense is Brian Flores. The same Brian Flores who is currently suing multiple NFL teams for racism. The same Brian Flores who aired the dirty laundry of Stephen Ross compelling him to tank. If that guy can still get a defensive coordinator position, I don't see why Daboll would be blackballed from the league for calling out Mara's love of Jones
the idea that if Mara really was the one not allowing a QB change, then Schoen or Daboll should call him out. That simply is not going to happen. Eric is correct when he says that none of McAdoo/Shurmur/Judge got HC jobs again, but you know what each of them got? Coordinator jobs.
If Daboll went public, he wouldn’t get hired as a ball boy. Now, he’s made plenty of money, he doesn’t NEED to work again, but let’s face it, these guys love the lifestyle. The camaraderie, the access, first class travel, hell, McAdoo worked as an unpaid advisor for a year! Daboll’s not giving that up.
You're correct.
I don't agree with this. The defensive coordinator that just embarrassed our offense is Brian Flores. The same Brian Flores who is currently suing multiple NFL teams for racism. The same Brian Flores who aired the dirty laundry of Stephen Ross compelling him to tank. If that guy can still get a defensive coordinator position, I don't see why Daboll would be blackballed from the league for calling out Mara's love of Jones
Because if he doesn’t get hired, the NFL is making his argument for him.
One point of the Inside BBI discussion that I disagree with re DJ
is the view that DJ is now broken. He may be mentally broken now but he was never a good, instinctive player. His propensity to throw swing passes into the ground and hesitate on throwing the ball was evident in his VERY FIRST START.
In that first NFL start, he had an open RB in the flat and just did not pull the trigger on the throw until it was too late and the RB got stuffed. It was a throw that thousands of kids make on a playground everyday. That is a microcosm of his ability. Zero instinctiveness. The evidence was there in game one and his instincts as a QB have not moved one fucking fraction of a millimeter since them.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The one other quibble I had was with
the idea that if Mara really was the one not allowing a QB change, then Schoen or Daboll should call him out. That simply is not going to happen. Eric is correct when he says that none of McAdoo/Shurmur/Judge got HC jobs again, but you know what each of them got? Coordinator jobs.
If Daboll went public, he wouldn’t get hired as a ball boy. Now, he’s made plenty of money, he doesn’t NEED to work again, but let’s face it, these guys love the lifestyle. The camaraderie, the access, first class travel, hell, McAdoo worked as an unpaid advisor for a year! Daboll’s not giving that up.
You're correct.
I don't agree with this. The defensive coordinator that just embarrassed our offense is Brian Flores. The same Brian Flores who is currently suing multiple NFL teams for racism. The same Brian Flores who aired the dirty laundry of Stephen Ross compelling him to tank. If that guy can still get a defensive coordinator position, I don't see why Daboll would be blackballed from the league for calling out Mara's love of Jones
Because if he doesn’t get hired, the NFL is making his argument for him.
Yeah, but the NFL didn't hire him, the Vikings did. I don't think Kevin O'Connell (a first time head coach who, like all coaches, is coaching for his job) hired someone just to help out the NFL not look racist
In hindsight, I think that was cheaper than signing Lock...?
The Steelers are paying their QBs $6M total.
That's why I can't stand the argument that Schoen couldn't do anything at the position.
3 goddamn offseasons and he's done nothing.
Looks like Pittsburgh is on the hook for $3.2M for Fields's 2024 salary. Wilson for $1.2M, btw. Combined, that's less than Lock.
I've never bought the argument, either, that Schoen was too hamstrung by the Jones contract to move him this year. A bigger cap hit with a better QB didn't stop a better HC, Sean Payton, from cutting Russell Wilson.
It's interesting listening to these guys mentioning flaws in Jones's games that many of us have been hammering for five years.
ability to throw into tight 'windows' and having success with it in his rookie season or am I imagining that? I think between that and his mobility It was what kept me believing he could be an average to above average QB. Once he went down with the injury last year I was done with him. Then he played against vegas looked like crap and got injured. I was angry. Now it has to be to the point where the Giants are planning for a QB. I don't think they are 'tanking' but they will move on end of year. They'd have to win 16 games and DJ look like Mahomes and even then, move on. He's an injury waiting to happen. Hes a turnover waiting to happen. Fans are hating on him and tuning out the Giants. I actually watch a Jets game last night and enjoyed it. Ridiculous.
When Costanza is referenced more than once in a pod,
and if you guys know my history, I am the last guy to do that.
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
Absolutely. They failed to manage up.
Regardless of that, we need to start asking about how the situation can be improved vs. who deserves to be the annual scapegoat.
Schoen and Daboll need to go - they are a poor match for this ownership. The Giants need to bring in someone with the cache to treat John Mara like this:
In hindsight, I think that was cheaper than signing Lock...?
The Steelers are paying their QBs $6M total.
That's why I can't stand the argument that Schoen couldn't do anything at the position.
3 goddamn offseasons and he's done nothing.
Looks like Pittsburgh is on the hook for $3.2M for Fields's 2024 salary. Wilson for $1.2M, btw. Combined, that's less than Lock.
I've never bought the argument, either, that Schoen was too hamstrung by the Jones contract to move him this year. A bigger cap hit with a better QB didn't stop a better HC, Sean Payton, from cutting Russell Wilson.
It's interesting listening to these guys mentioning flaws in Jones's games that many of us have been hammering for five years.
I disagree on the contrtact part. You don't make those decisions in a vaccum and as I said elsewhere I think Mara looks at the cap as more of an actual balance sheet than moveable funny money situation.
and if you guys know my history, I am the last guy to do that.
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
They’re all to blame. I hate to sound like a broken record, but the way Schoen has handled the QB position is football malpractice. Even if you genuinely believe he was legitimately interested in Maye…not to draft a QB or even upgrade the position from ‘23…it is MADNESS!
and if you guys know my history, I am the last guy to do that.
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
Absolutely. They failed to manage up.
Regardless of that, we need to start asking about how the situation can be improved vs. who deserves to be the annual scapegoat.
Schoen and Daboll need to go - they are a poor match for this ownership. The Giants need to bring in someone with the cache to treat John Mara like this:
But it looked to me like they kind of did that in Hard Knocks with Barkley. Hence, my point that at some point we have to stop turning Mara into the the bogeyman. Also, did anyone notice Woodstock's post from yesterday?
Daboll is definitely on the hot seat
9/8/2024 6:40 pm : link
I mean..that's obvious and Schoens seat is warm and that was before today's game. I want to say one more thing.
GoTerps is 100% percent correct. I was wrong. I assumed Mara pushed to give Jones the contract. Nope. The Daniel Jones contract is Joe Schoens and Dabolls doing. I was shocked when told, especially with how fast they moved to pivot away from him. It sounds nuts but it's true.
By appearing like they wanted to move off Jones, but it seems clear now they knew all along what they were doing.
I feel like I was in the twilight zone this offseason and during the draft.
And I don’t actually believe it was a Mara mandate, I think Mara’s feelings are always known, but John Mara wasn’t the one falling head over heels with the WR, calling him a “dawg”. That was our head coach.
Schoen and Daboll own this. Mara let Barkley walk to Philly. That has to count for a lot in terms of his willingness to let these guys operate in my opinion.
Daboll is definitely on the hot seat
9/8/2024 6:40 pm : link
I mean..that's obvious and Schoens seat is warm and that was before today's game. I want to say one more thing.
GoTerps is 100% percent correct. I was wrong. I assumed Mara pushed to give Jones the contract. Nope. The Daniel Jones contract is Joe Schoens and Dabolls doing. I was shocked when told, especially with how fast they moved to pivot away from him. It sounds nuts but it's true.
I'm not following this. Are you/someone saying Terps said all along that the Jones contract was not on Mara, but on Schoen and Daboll?
why everyone's convinced that Schoen and Daboll were "talked into" resigning Jones when they otherwise would've moved on after the 2022 season. The morning after the Philly playoff loss, they gave a joint press conference where practically the first words out of their mouths was that they wanted to bring Jones back.
Now, I think one could definitely argue (given hindsight) that Mara's attachment to Barkley was evident enough that Schoen felt pressured into negotiating a multi-year deal with Jones, leaving him free to franchise Barkley. If the deal with Jones could not be struck, they would've tagged him, and Barkley likely signs elsewhere. But that move would've also limited our cap flexibility to improve the roster in other areas, so maybe making the deal with Jones was the move Schoen preferred to make irrespective of what Mara would've wanted.
Have to show that the ship is on course and Jones is the only issue. The Lock situation complicates because he got so little work and we're not even sure where he is physically right now. But Daboll needs to show --what you saw, that's on Jones. I can take Drew Lock and do just what KOC did with Darnold, and with a half way competent QB, this team can be competitive.
That's really what has to happen here. Jones is already done. If these guys don't show that, then he can't be the only one who takes the fall. Not that I'm predicting that. Don't be surprised to see half measures with everything pinned on DJ. If these guys haven't proven that they're not every bit as responsible, than anything less then cleaning house is inexcusable (though exactly what I expect).
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
And that makes total sense that they were. Mara is not the sole source of every poor decision made inside the building. He hires crappy people to make the shitty decisions for him.
Former Mets catcher. He could hit, and should have had a long career. Except he couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher. Way worse than Knoblauch's problems. He would have try 2,3,4 times or more before allowing himself to release the ball. Eventually, they couldn't play him anymore.
I was somewhat more encouraged after reading this part of Sy's review. I assumed no one was getting open. But they were, we just have Mackey Sasser trying to play QB.
I hope Drew Locke is at least as good as Tyrod Taylor.
If not, letting Tyrod go was another brainless move. I know he's not a future #1, but TT was a competent backup, familiar with our system, who gave us a chance to win games.
Daboll is definitely on the hot seat
9/8/2024 6:40 pm : link
I mean..that's obvious and Schoens seat is warm and that was before today's game. I want to say one more thing.
GoTerps is 100% percent correct. I was wrong. I assumed Mara pushed to give Jones the contract. Nope. The Daniel Jones contract is Joe Schoens and Dabolls doing. I was shocked when told, especially with how fast they moved to pivot away from him. It sounds nuts but it's true.
Wow. This is a stinging indictment of both Schoen and Daboll. If this is true, they both need to be fired before the season ends. As early as the bye week frankly.
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
I don’t doubt that Schoen wanted to get the contract done so he could settle with Saquon. After 2022, they knew they couldn’t exactly cut Jones loose, they wanted him back but on their terms. The Saquon negotiations made that impossible.
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
I hadn't seen that. Wow.
I hope you're right that Mara will go after Belichick. I don't believe it's the best move at this point in his life, but at least it will make me want to watch this fucking team in 2025.
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
Seems convenient that 'someone in the organization' is now telling people that Jones contract was all Joe/Dabs. Not saying it isn't true, but I don't know if I totally buy that. It was probably a decision made collectively by Mara/Schoen/Dabs. Now, people are going to start pointing fingers @ others for that albatross of a deal.
Wow. This is a stinging indictment of both Schoen and Daboll. If this is true, they both need to be fired before the season ends. As early as the bye week frankly.
I was hammering away at that for the last year. When Mara said he was turning over the keys to the football operations to Schoen, I totally believed him.
Whether the things we saw were actually where decisions were made or a reality tv way to avoid showing competitive details and to make more digestible to the TV audience, we'll never know. But who cares. In silicon valley guys walk around in flip flops have bizarre habits and work odd crazy schedules. Wall Street is different. None of that matters.
I tell the people that work for me, if you do quality work get shit done and are accessible when I need you, I'm not going to hassle you about your working style. What matters is results. That's what I care about, and these guys haven't delivered. If NYG looked good and won, we wouldn't hear a word about HK or Barkley or any of that.
Schoen? You want to say he's an idiot or an office creature who will do anything to placate his boss? Its possible.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Wow. This is a stinging indictment of both Schoen and Daboll. If this is true, they both need to be fired before the season ends. As early as the bye week frankly.
I was hammering away at that for the last year. When Mara said he was turning over the keys to the football operations to Schoen, I totally believed him.
You absolutely called this from the beginning. One of the best early takes I have seen on BBI during my time here. Great job!
Schoen? You want to say he's an idiot or an office creature who will do anything to placate his boss? Its possible.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Here is my pushback on this. Going into 2023, I could see Daboll thinking he would be interested in seeing how Jones could do without the training wheels in 2022. So, if Schoen explained the limitations of the QB market, I could see that being an easy sell for Daboll...at least in the short-run...
Boy, John Mara should HATE Daniel Jones rather than adore him
I could see that Dabs component. Remember how pleased he was with Jones during and after that Colts game? I think he thought he could elevate Jones to another level, but I think he realized that wasn’t possible after the pick six last season vs. the Hawks.
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
I hadn't seen that. Wow.
I hope you're right that Mara will go after Belichick. I don't believe it's the best move at this point in his life, but at least it will make me want to watch this fucking team in 2025.
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
I really hope they don't go down the Belichick road. Coughlin was 69 years old when they decided the game had passed him by and forced him out. BB will be 73 next September and hasn't shown he still has his coaching mojo since Brady left New England.
And I agree what you said is plausible. But I think you actually agree with me on Daboll.
If they asked "Brian, your head coaching career is tied to Daniel Jones at 20% of the salary cap - yes or no?" Do you really think he's saying yes?
I don't disagree.
Differently said, I could see Schoen manipulating Daboll into signing off by saying the QB market is not good and they could re-evaluate at the end of 2023.
Prior to the season, many expected Jones to be pulled ala Russell Wilson and Derek Carr once they are out of contention. They cannot risk that injury guarantee. Meanwhile, they looked terrible Week 1 although and it is up in the air if they will defeat the lowly Commanders this weekend. The schedule becomes more difficult thereafter. With all that said, in this case, I hope Daboll and Schoen have some forethought and decide once and for all to play Lock (or Cutlets).
This isn't raising the white flag. This is being intelligent about moving forward.
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
There are a lot of people on this board who think posting about this team or Jones sucking means that it is enjoyable and you want more of it.
It is the exact opposite.
Like you, I post about this team as a way of venting frustration that Sundays just aren't fun like they used to be because this team isn't competitive and there is no sign it is getting better. It is hard to see that and say nothing (even though it is just venting because no decision makers are reading this).
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
There are a lot of people on this board who think posting about this team or Jones sucking means that it is enjoyable and you want more of it.
It is the exact opposite.
Like you, I post about this team as a way of venting frustration that Sundays just aren't fun like they used to be because this team isn't competitive and there is no sign it is getting better. It is hard to see that and say nothing (even though it is just venting because no decision makers are reading this).
Hopefully that pollyanna nonsense is a thing of the past - at least as it relates to Daniel Jones...
RE: I will never buy that Daboll is all in on Jones
Schoen? You want to say he's an idiot or an office creature who will do anything to placate his boss? Its possible.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Agree with you. Just because the Giants gave Jones that deal that doesn't equal "all-in" on him from Daboll.
It could mean Daboll was thinking give him a contract that we can deal with in the short term and still get a couple of other new bodies for my roster under the cap, and let's see how it goes. That's not all-in, that is punting the QB decision to another day and hope DJ keeps performing under my coaching.
Don't get me wrong, that contract was an abomination for such a low-talent passer like Jones. But unfortunately Schoen/Daboll saw a higher talented player in their 2022 evaluation process. Scary as that is.
RE: RE: I know you're constructing a plausible scenario
And I agree what you said is plausible. But I think you actually agree with me on Daboll.
If they asked "Brian, your head coaching career is tied to Daniel Jones at 20% of the salary cap - yes or no?" Do you really think he's saying yes?
I don't disagree.
Differently said, I could see Schoen manipulating Daboll into signing off by saying the QB market is not good and they could re-evaluate at the end of 2023.
Seems convenient that 'someone in the organization' is now telling people that Jones contract was all Joe/Dabs. Not saying it isn't true, but I don't know if I totally buy that. It was probably a decision made collectively by Mara/Schoen/Dabs. Now, people are going to start pointing fingers @ others for that albatross of a deal.
Could be that the rats are deserting the sinking ship, but you would think the usual suspects in the sporting press would be leaking it if that were the case.
Could also be true. Seems that Daboll and Schoen have incredibly big heads for not having accomplished a whole lot.
It's kind of sad in a way. The group of posters on here who vilified anyone being realistic about Jones, all gave up on him after a week.
Team Jones may get lucky again this weekend as Jones runs into the Washington. The team he has owned.
If NYG wins and Jones puts up 200 passing yards, 1 passing TD, maybe 1 running TD and no turnovers, he will get another stay of execution.
And then the mouthpieces for 1925 Giants Way, Banks and Papa, come out and say the rust is starting to come off and Jones is now trending the right way...
It's so easy to write the script with this cast of buffoons.
RE: RE: I will never buy that Daboll is all in on Jones
Schoen? You want to say he's an idiot or an office creature who will do anything to placate his boss? Its possible.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Here is my pushback on this. Going into 2023, I could see Daboll thinking he would be interested in seeing how Jones could do without the training wheels in 2022. So, if Schoen explained the limitations of the QB market, I could see that being an easy sell for Daboll...at least in the short-run...
I don’t even think it’s that complicated. They made the playoffs, Jones played reasonably well, there was ZERO chance they weren’t resigning him. The only questions were for how much and how long. Those 2 issues are 100% on Schoen, even if he asked Daboll his opinion (which I doubt he would).
I simply will not understand firing the HC because they made a bad contract with their QB. It would be like firing the GM because the HC blew a call in a playoff game.
I think Daboll was all in after 2023, and all out after
the Seattle game last season. At the end of 2023, he probably thought he could elevate his play, and the other options weren't great. At some point, last season I'm sure he said "Mother_ucker!!! We _ucked up."
With the mega-contract making him uncuttable this year, he had to play him, at least initially. Will be very interesting to see how soon he makes a move at QB. There's no way DJ is "his guy" anymore.
As for Schoene, he's the main culprit with 2 big f'ups. (1) Grossly overpaying DJ, and (2) failing to bring in any viable alternative (Fields, even Tyrod). With a starter as weak as DJ, we should have been at the top of the backup QB market. We should have been able to do better than Locke. (I won't blame him for not passing on Nabers and selecting Nix/Penix/JJ, as I think we'll have better QB options in 2025.)
It's kind of sad in a way. The group of posters on here who vilified anyone being realistic about Jones, all gave up on him after a week.
Team Jones may get lucky again this weekend as Jones runs into the Washington. The team he has owned.
If NYG wins and Jones puts up 200 passing yards, 1 passing TD, maybe 1 running TD and no turnovers, he will get another stay of execution.
And then the mouthpieces for 1925 Giants Way, Banks and Papa, come out and say the rust is starting to come off and Jones is now trending the right way...
It's so easy to write the script with this cast of buffoons.
If Baker can hit for the cycle against WFT, Jones can probably manage a single.
It's kind of sad in a way. The group of posters on here who vilified anyone being realistic about Jones, all gave up on him after a week.
If the Giants win this week it will be back to positivity. I guarantee it. "We're 1-1. We started 1-1 in '86 and '11, and '0-2 in '07!"
The game to keep an eye on is the next home game - Thursday night against Dallas week 4. If there's a game that's going to get ugly in a lot of different ways...
Was at the game, Section 140 aginst the wall last row
Been a fan since Fran Tarkenton. Wearing my No 8 shirt.
We were able to see the alumni section with Shockey sitting with Parcells.
Loved the half time show.
Left at the end of the third.
Eric, you nailed it.
Worst game I ever saw out of Jones.
Spending my Sundays working on my cars and sailboat from now on...
It's kind of sad in a way. The group of posters on here who vilified anyone being realistic about Jones, all gave up on him after a week.
Team Jones may get lucky again this weekend as Jones runs into the Washington. The team he has owned.
If NYG wins and Jones puts up 200 passing yards, 1 passing TD, maybe 1 running TD and no turnovers, he will get another stay of execution.
And then the mouthpieces for 1925 Giants Way, Banks and Papa, come out and say the rust is starting to come off and Jones is now trending the right way...
It's so easy to write the script with this cast of buffoons.
They get paid by the organization and that is how it works if you want to keep your job.
is good. Ideally, the fans would apply the pressure with an economic boycott and stop subjecting themselves to this horrible product.
Unfortunately, it's easier than ever for fans to sell tickets to other teams' fans, and profit off that exchange. That's not ideal for ownership, but as long as someone is buying parking, food, drinks, etc, that still goes to the top and bottom lines for ownership.
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
I always thought Mara was the driving force behind the Jones contract, although I am not sure that this one comment will convince me otherwise. But if that is true, the absent a miraculous turnaround, Schoen and Daboll should both be fired at the end of the season. The Jones contract is much worse than the contracts that DG gave to Golladay and Solder. And it will get even worse if Jones is injured and the Giants have to pay his $23M injury guarantee.
the discussion at the 1:17 minute mark about the Van Ginkel INT is not coaching, IMV.
The QB is responsible for reading the defense and snuffing out potentially bad plays before they occur. If you guys could see that the play had catastrophe written all over it, then why the hell didn't Jones see that? And call a timeout...
all of the fans last year saying "You can't force a QB" and what they would like to see this year. Can you force a QB this year because you didn't last year?
The QB position in not about finding John Elway or bust, and of Elway is not available you take BPA. The Giants don't have someone who can play the position on the roster and they need to fix that. If that guy plays two years an you need to get another one? You do that!
This team needs a QB who has the potential to at least play at an NFL-average level. That should be the bar, not "Franchise Savior."
If I were the GM I'd clear out the QB room, sign a vet like Darnold and draft 2 QBs.
Completely on board with that approach. I do like the idea of taking one QB in the first round and a developmental guy later in the 5th or 6th round. Make a statement that the guy who plays the best will start.
Playing QB for the Giants should become a right that is earned, not a crown that is bestowed.
The big fear is that the next QB will get the same long leash. Even if they move on from Jones, the fundamental problem remains.
Long intros are engagement killers on YouTube. If someone finds your channel, odds are they'll click away 30 seconds in.
Keep the intro at ten to fifteen seconds MAX. Put the long one at the end as an outro.
yeah, I would start each podcast shoring one or two of the key plays from the previous week's game using the radio announcers. Plays that you would go on to discuss at some point during the podcast. Of course, this is all assuming you can do this from a legal perspective.
the discussion at the 1:17 minute mark about the Van Ginkel INT is not coaching, IMV.
The QB is responsible for reading the defense and snuffing out potentially bad plays before they occur. If you guys could see that the play had catastrophe written all over it, then why the hell didn't Jones see that? And call a timeout...
Solid point, he had to see the disaster that was coming..
I totally agree that Jones shouldn't play another down for the Giants ever again. There is no upside. The downside of course is that he could get hurt to the point where he can't pass a physical next year, which would trigger his $23M injury guarantee. He is as you say "broken" and can't be fixed.
Jones is going to start against Washington. But I still think his "leash" is short, and another two or at most three games like Minnesota will get him benched. At some point it has to happen out of fairness to the other players.
I totally agree that Jones shouldn't play another down for the Giants ever again. There is no upside. The downside of course is that he could get hurt to the point where he can't pass a physical next year, which would trigger his $23M injury guarantee. He is as you say "broken" and can't be fixed.
Jones is going to start against Washington. But I still think his "leash" is short, and another two or at most three games like Minnesota will get him benched. At some point it has to happen out of fairness to the other players.
While I agree with you on what SHOULD happen, what about anything they’ve done makes you think they will pull the plug on the Daniel Jones experiment? I’m done thinking they are that smart. I’ll believe it when I see it
I totally agree that Jones shouldn't play another down for the Giants ever again. There is no upside. The downside of course is that he could get hurt to the point where he can't pass a physical next year, which would trigger his $23M injury guarantee. He is as you say "broken" and can't be fixed.
Jones is going to start against Washington. But I still think his "leash" is short, and another two or at most three games like Minnesota will get him benched. At some point it has to happen out of fairness to the other players.
While I agree with you on what SHOULD happen, what about anything they’ve done makes you think they will pull the plug on the Daniel Jones experiment? I’m done thinking they are that smart. I’ll believe it when I see it
Because a mutiny will happen. The first true sign that things are heading in that direction would be for Devito to be active on game day.
of what Eric said is what I said to my fiance. This isn’t fun, I want to watch a team that is at least competitive. It’s insane to feel like the entire season is over after one drive. All I wanted from this season was to feel like things were moving in the right direction. It’s not, I’m out on Schoen and Daboll, I don’t know what will have to happen to get me back on board. Jones is absolutely broken. The team is broken. The franchise is broken. Is the way out as simple as getting a competent QB? My initial reaction to the schedule release was that this team was not better than any opponent. Two wins maybe, against Washington and Carolina. Training camp made me feel like maybe 7 wins give or take a couple was more realistic. I’m back to being surprised if they beat anyone, which unfortunately they will, and it’ll unfortunately take them out of range from drafting a QB, again. I want football to be fun again.
of what Eric said is what I said to my fiance. This isn’t fun, I want to watch a team that is at least competitive. It’s insane to feel like the entire season is over after one drive. All I wanted from this season was to feel like things were moving in the right direction. It’s not, I’m out on Schoen and Daboll, I don’t know what will have to happen to get me back on board. Jones is absolutely broken. The team is broken. The franchise is broken. Is the way out as simple as getting a competent QB? My initial reaction to the schedule release was that this team was not better than any opponent. Two wins maybe, against Washington and Carolina. Training camp made me feel like maybe 7 wins give or take a couple was more realistic. I’m back to being surprised if they beat anyone, which unfortunately they will, and it’ll unfortunately take them out of range from drafting a QB, again. I want football to be fun again.
Teams like the Chiefs and the Steelers play a lot of starters over multiple games in preseason.
?
I don't know what you are referring to.
I thought John was suggesting that every team in the NFL basically doesn't play anyone in the preseason. Which is why QB play in week 1 was so poor across the NFL (true)...
RE: RE: RE: It's wrong what was said at the end...
Teams like the Chiefs and the Steelers play a lot of starters over multiple games in preseason.
?
I don't know what you are referring to.
I thought John was suggesting that every team in the NFL basically doesn't play anyone in the preseason. Which is why QB play in week 1 was so poor across the NFL (true)...
You want me to list the teams that didn't play their starters? It will bw far more than 2 teams.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It's wrong what was said at the end...
You want me to list the teams that didn't play their starters? It will bw far more than 2 teams.
I know the majority of the league doesn't. But it's not every team.
Every wonder why, however, the Chiefs and Steelers seems to start off most years with wins and good Septembers. Perhaps it's because they have less rust than most teams...That's my point.
On the other hand, the Rams play nobody. And McVay is more than willing to manage through that with the intent on peaking late.
I said the same thing about the dangers of actually winning in Washington with Daniel. That's why I want him benched now. There's no upside to playing Daniel at this point. None.
💯
But wait you’re wrong. Like the Dumb and Dumber line it keeps alive the fantasy that maaaaybe Jones can still be the guy. “So you’re saying there’s a chance?”
Seems convenient that 'someone in the organization' is now telling people that Jones contract was all Joe/Dabs. Not saying it isn't true, but I don't know if I totally buy that. It was probably a decision made collectively by Mara/Schoen/Dabs. Now, people are going to start pointing fingers @ others for that albatross of a deal.
Possibly the Giants PR machine already in effect. They are more effective than the team as a whole.
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
And how do we know that woodstock’s source is not a Mara PR tool?
A Mara PR tool would be talking to Paul Schwartz not a nobody like me. I'm gonna try to make it as clear as I can.
Mara likes Jones and wants him to succeed as NY QB. He was obviously pro signing Daniel. Everyone knows that
So was Joe Schoen. When Joe signed him to the contract it=Joe getting his QB. Joe owns the signing of Jones not Mara. They both were on the same page. But in the end Joe made the call.
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
And how do we know that woodstock’s source is not a Mara PR tool?
A Mara PR tool would be talking to Paul Schwartz not a nobody like me. I'm gonna try to make it as clear as I can.
Mara likes Jones and wants him to succeed as NY QB. He was obviously pro signing Daniel. Everyone knows that
So was Joe Schoen. When Joe signed him to the contract it=Joe getting his QB. Joe owns the signing of Jones not Mara. They both were on the same page. But in the end Joe made the call.
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
And how do we know that woodstock’s source is not a Mara PR tool?
A Mara PR tool would be talking to Paul Schwartz not a nobody like me. I'm gonna try to make it as clear as I can.
Mara likes Jones and wants him to succeed as NY QB. He was obviously pro signing Daniel. Everyone knows that
So was Joe Schoen. When Joe signed him to the contract it=Joe getting his QB. Joe owns the signing of Jones not Mara. They both were on the same page. But in the end Joe made the call.
Schoen definitely owns the contract, but there is absolutely some blme-shifting going on here. Let's be honest, there was absolutely no way Mara would have signed off on letting Jones walk after 2022. No. Way.
Schoen bears the brunt of responsibility, that is totally fair, but for Mara to try to pass this all off as Schoen's decision is beyond disingenuous. And we've seen this film before, things go bad, the Mara's circle the wagons and blame everyone else.
Everyone not named Mara is right now wondering about their future should there be a shakeup. The easiest and surest to keep your job is to align yourself with the Mara's and re-spin their take.
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
And how do we know that woodstock’s source is not a Mara PR tool?
A Mara PR tool would be talking to Paul Schwartz not a nobody like me. I'm gonna try to make it as clear as I can.
Mara likes Jones and wants him to succeed as NY QB. He was obviously pro signing Daniel. Everyone knows that
So was Joe Schoen. When Joe signed him to the contract it=Joe getting his QB. Joe owns the signing of Jones not Mara. They both were on the same page. But in the end Joe made the call.
Teams like the Chiefs and the Steelers play a lot of starters over multiple games in preseason.
The Chiefs make a big PR deal about Mahomes playing in the pre-season, but what actually happens?
Week 1 KC: Mahomes played one possession.
Week 1 NYG: Giants don't play starters but had two days of joint practices with the Lions. The Chiefs don't do joint practices.
Week 2 KC: Mahomes played two possessions in the 1Q. For the Chiefs' next possession, with 3:13 still remaining in the 1Q, Mahomes is on the sidelines, not to return.
Week 2 NYG: Giants play starters, including Jones, the entire first half, five offensive possessions.
Week 3: Nobody plays starters. Giants have a joint practice with the Jets.
Total preseason game possessions played: Jones 5, Mahomes 3. And the Giants have three days of joint practices the Chiefs don't have.
Teams like the Chiefs and the Steelers play a lot of starters over multiple games in preseason.
The Chiefs make a big PR deal about Mahomes playing in the pre-season, but what actually happens?
Week 1 KC: Mahomes played one possession.
Week 1 NYG: Giants don't play starters but had two days of joint practices with the Lions. The Chiefs don't do joint practices.
Week 2 KC: Mahomes played two possessions in the 1Q. For the Chiefs' next possession, with 3:13 still remaining in the 1Q, Mahomes is on the sidelines, not to return.
Week 2 NYG: Giants play starters, including Jones, the entire first half, five offensive possessions.
Week 3: Nobody plays starters. Giants have a joint practice with the Jets.
Total preseason game possessions played: Jones 5, Mahomes 3. And the Giants have three days of joint practices the Chiefs don't have.
KC is the reigning SB champ and Mahomes is the best player in the league. The Giants won 6 games, their starter is coming off an ACL and hadn't played in 9 months.
I know that coaches love to point at joint practices as more productive than preseason, and I get why, but for QB's they aren't remotely the same. You don't get hit in joint practices, so it isn't the same game prep for QB's as it is for others.
Now if your KC with Mahomes, who cares, he doesn't need the live reps, but if your QB hasn't played in 9 months? He needs to play when real bullets are flying. That isn't happening with joint sessions.
RE: RE: RE: It's wrong what was said at the end...
KC is the reigning SB champ and Mahomes is the best player in the league. The Giants won 6 games, their starter is coming off an ACL and hadn't played in 9 months.
I know that coaches love to point at joint practices as more productive than preseason, and I get why, but for QB's they aren't remotely the same. You don't get hit in joint practices, so it isn't the same game prep for QB's as it is for others.
Now if your KC with Mahomes, who cares, he doesn't need the live reps, but if your QB hasn't played in 9 months? He needs to play when real bullets are flying. That isn't happening with joint sessions.
If you wish to beat that drum, you can beat it. I don't happen to agree. Daniel Jones is who he is and exposing him and other starters (who would have to be out there with him) to more risk of injury in pre-season won't change that.
The point I was responding to is the claim the Chiefs are doing something notably different. They're not.
While I was just watching the intro to the new episode...
one small point of feedback. I have been letting my young kids listen to this podcast with me as they come out. Has been a great way for us to bond over the Giants. Couple in grade school, one in middle school.
Unfortunately, we had to cut this one off early because of the language.
However, I totally get the frustration, and I don't want you guys to adjust the format; it's great when you guys speak from your heart, and not try to hold things back. So, if the podcast is geared more towards adults, I get it.
I'll listen on my own; sounds like this episode is going to be a doozy!
Thank you for all the hard work you guys put into this.
Gottcha.... and duly noted moving forward.
Finally got to listen during some mid-day drive time today, I thought to myself it was good to hear Eric swearing so much, you were speaking for all of us!
But the point about kids listening in is a good one:)
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We recorded this last night and then I put it together to post- finished around 12:30 this morning.
After all off season, Hard Knocks, the draft, Eric and I deciding to get the band back together and then putting these videos together- it was such a air out of the balloon moment last Sunday. I try not to be full doom and gloom but it is getting harder and harder not to head that way.
We went long on this last night and honestly we could have gone longer easily. The frustration of the last 13 years is just overwhelming as a fan.. As Eric said, his kids and my kids have never seen this team win with any consistency and not during their more "aware" years for sure..
We recorded this last night and then I put it together to post- finished around 12:30 this morning.
After all off season, Hard Knocks, the draft, Eric and I deciding to get the band back together and then putting these videos together- it was such a air out of the balloon moment last Sunday. I try not to be full doom and gloom but it is getting harder and harder not to head that way.
We went long on this last night and honestly we could have gone longer easily. The frustration of the last 13 years is just overwhelming as a fan.. As Eric said, his kids and my kids have never seen this team win with any consistency and not during their more "aware" years for sure..
I'm proofing Sy's game review now... He used the same Chuck Knoblauch analogy you did.
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We broke the 500 subscriber mark so we will be giving away a mini NY Giants helmet (or another team of the winners choice).
We recorded this last night and then I put it together to post- finished around 12:30 this morning.
After all off season, Hard Knocks, the draft, Eric and I deciding to get the band back together and then putting these videos together- it was such a air out of the balloon moment last Sunday. I try not to be full doom and gloom but it is getting harder and harder not to head that way.
We went long on this last night and honestly we could have gone longer easily. The frustration of the last 13 years is just overwhelming as a fan.. As Eric said, his kids and my kids have never seen this team win with any consistency and not during their more "aware" years for sure..
I'm proofing Sy's game review now... He used the same Chuck Knoblauch analogy you did.
Nice!! Woot woot..
We recorded this last night and then I put it together to post- finished around 12:30 this morning.
After all off season, Hard Knocks, the draft, Eric and I deciding to get the band back together and then putting these videos together- it was such a air out of the balloon moment last Sunday. I try not to be full doom and gloom but it is getting harder and harder not to head that way.
We went long on this last night and honestly we could have gone longer easily. The frustration of the last 13 years is just overwhelming as a fan.. As Eric said, his kids and my kids have never seen this team win with any consistency and not during their more "aware" years for sure..
Some years we get the entertainment from what happens on the field.
Some years we get the entertainment from what happens off the field.
Just trying to help center you.
Senior writer
31. New York Giants
"It's hard to feel good about anything with the Giants after that opener. General manager Joe Schoen, head coach Brian Daboll and quarterback Daniel Jones should all be worried. Also, a defense that allowed Sam Darnold to torch it might be a real problem all season."
IMO, something is just not adding up with this Giants team. It's one thing to get blown out by a Super Bowl contender, but Minnesota? The Giants may not have the greatest personnel, but they played below their talent this past Sunday. Football is such an emotional/momentum sport and the Giants looked stiff and slow right out of the gate. Are the players wondering why Joe Schoen kept Daniel Jones and let Saquon Barkley walk? Have the players tuned out Brian Daboll? Had the team lost faith in their signal-caller before the season even started? Did the players watch Hard Knocks and decide that Joe Schoen is an A-hole? What f-ing gives with this team???
I don't know why we go so long on these. It doesn't feel like it. And I get pretty animated again throughout this, like my predictions near the end.
I get we are going for a full housecleaning and I'm good with that, but I think you substantially underrated the role of Mara in all of this, particularly the Jones part. Now, Schoen may love Jones. But he may not. I don't think he had any choice in the matter because of Mara. I'm still fine with firing him, but a lot of this stuff goes straight to the top. And Schoen has done a pretty bad job with the non-QB stuff too.
This is more speculative, but Daboll to me looks like a beaten man whose career is shackled to a bum that he didn't choose. BD may or may not be a good coach but I don't think he's a moron. He sees the Jones stuff. And admittedly this is armchair analysis, but he looks like he knows it's over because of choices beyond his control.
How far our beloved Giants have fallen.
This team isn't going to go 2-15. The important thing is going to be to remember how we all feel right now if they win some meaningless games to cobble together a 7-10 record.
Because I promise you if that happens Jones will be the quarterback again next year, and Schoen and Daboll will be back.
And I 100% agree with this fan base tuning out. I’m not even sure I’m going to watch the WFT game this Sunday if other plans come up. The Giants don’t deserve 3 hours of my attention, especially if the weather is nice.
I hate Daboll’s country club training camps. Team is unprepared to play football.
Joint practice with Jets was a waste of time with no intensity. A joke!!!
I actually feel like Daboll is somewhat disinterested with Jones as his starting QB.
He should have been more demanding about getting his QB pre draft.
This team isn't going to go 2-15. The important thing is going to be to remember how we all feel right now if they win some meaningless games to cobble together a 7-10 record.
Because I promise you if that happens Jones will be the quarterback again next year, and Schoen and Daboll will be back.
See I will disagree with that last part only because I felt (said already) that i think Schoen and Daboll are moving off Jones at the end of this year regardless. Now, your counter argument would be if that is true why bother with him at all now.
I am beginning to think they knew their cap pieces would be tight and that explains the juggling now without touching Jones's money. I know Eric got all heated when I brought this but my point was if the Giants touched Jones's money that would be the easiest way to get a LOT of space BUT that would mean he is staying longer. The Giants have not touched Jones's money and in fact have gone back to AT and DL multiple times to make some cap space. The idea clearly is to make sure his money can be cleared up this off season..
The negative to looking for a QB is quite frankly there will be at least 6 and possibly up to 10 teams legitimately looking for a QB (stopgap or long term) this upcoming off season. The Giants I think will go long term over stopgap but it all depends on the wins this year. If they cobble together 7-9 wins then maybe a VET for a year or two with a lower round QB pick is the way to go. I doubt that though, I think we go after the QB in the draft in RD 1.
I only did the insert of the BBI poster of the week once because the file was so big it was taking forever to load. That one took 1:15 minutes to load after IO added the intro and the one BBI poster of the week graphic.
Will be easier on shorter vids (an hour or so).
This team isn't going to go 2-15. The important thing is going to be to remember how we all feel right now if they win some meaningless games to cobble together a 7-10 record.
Because I promise you if that happens Jones will be the quarterback again next year, and Schoen and Daboll will be back.
You can get to 7-10 and save about $35M.
This. Daboll wants to throw the ball downfield, get big chunks of yardage, pressure the defense. Is there a worse QB in football to try and do that with than DJ?
Unfortunately, we had to cut this one off early because of the language.
However, I totally get the frustration, and I don't want you guys to adjust the format; it's great when you guys speak from your heart, and not try to hold things back. So, if the podcast is geared more towards adults, I get it.
I'll listen on my own; sounds like this episode is going to be a doozy!
Thank you for all the hard work you guys put into this.
This was tremendous Eric. Laughed throughout the discussion.
Keep it up!
Unfortunately, we had to cut this one off early because of the language.
However, I totally get the frustration, and I don't want you guys to adjust the format; it's great when you guys speak from your heart, and not try to hold things back. So, if the podcast is geared more towards adults, I get it.
I'll listen on my own; sounds like this episode is going to be a doozy!
Thank you for all the hard work you guys put into this.
Gottcha.... and duly noted moving forward.
This. Daboll wants to throw the ball downfield, get big chunks of yardage, pressure the defense. Is there a worse QB in football to try and do that with than DJ?
As Eric and John pointed out, DeVito is not an answer, but we saw last year he will throw the ball down the field. The clock on Daboll's career as an NFL coach may be ticking down now. I don't know why he is not at least trying to run the offense he keeps saying he wants to run.
He can't run that offense with Jones. If Schoen or Mara won't sign off on benching Jones, he should re-sign. If you can't stop the ship from sinking, you head to the life rafts.
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Real honest and not holding back.
I don't know why we go so long on these. It doesn't feel like it. And I get pretty animated again throughout this, like my predictions near the end.
Didn't we just spend the whole offseason saying you don't draft a QB just to draft a QB?
If they're in the exact same draft position they were just in, are they supposed to take QB4 over WR1?
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"I actually feel like Daboll is somewhat disinterested with Jones as his starting QB."
This. Daboll wants to throw the ball downfield, get big chunks of yardage, pressure the defense. Is there a worse QB in football to try and do that with than DJ?
As Eric and John pointed out, DeVito is not an answer, but we saw last year he will throw the ball down the field. The clock on Daboll's career as an NFL coach may be ticking down now. I don't know why he is not at least trying to run the offense he keeps saying he wants to run.
He can't run that offense with Jones. If Schoen or Mara won't sign off on benching Jones, he should re-sign. If you can't stop the ship from sinking, you head to the life rafts.
I kept saying it over and over, "What are we doing?"
Jones can't throw short and he won't throw long. And they have him running into the line on designed plays.
The fans don't want to see him take another snap. That's not me. It's the stadium.
What are we doing?
But I think he vocalized what 99.9% of us feel. We're sick & tired of this shit. We're fed up. We're beaten down. I don't want to hear excuses from the Howard Cross' & Dottinos of the world. Enough gaslighting.
What are we doing?
I've been asking this question for years.
I have to admit I'm openly rooting for losses now. Because of they eke out a win in Washington (completely possible) the tenor of the conversation of going to change and the self-delusion will return.
Lol...I remember when I had to call the poster named Titlehead Breastlehead!
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I doubt that though, I think we go after the QB in the draft in RD 1.
Didn't we just spend the whole offseason saying you don't draft a QB just to draft a QB?
If they're in the exact same draft position they were just in, are they supposed to take QB4 over WR1?
I hear ya BUT we have WR 1 now, we have OT 1, quite frankly I think we gambled this year and lost. I think the love for Maye was real but the Pats weren't ever going to budge. I think the Giants (and I think Dottino hinted at this which may mean it was more true than I first thought)_ that bringing in a lower QB prospect (over the more widely regarded WR) in a year that Jones is playing no matter what would invite huge boo birds and calls for the "rookie, the unknown". If that is truly why we did what we did then yes, this group is effed and they are planning, playing and coaching scared..
Agreed. There is only downside. (He might get hurt, which could trigger his $23M injury guarantee.)
We're a passionate and fed-up fan base. Don't change a damn thing, Eric.
I'm with you, I would bench him right now. Let Lock get his feet wet vs a weak Wash D. At least Lock will be trying those passes when the receivers are open, rather than pumping until the defender shows up
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In comment 16604102 jvm52106 said:
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I doubt that though, I think we go after the QB in the draft in RD 1.
Didn't we just spend the whole offseason saying you don't draft a QB just to draft a QB?
If they're in the exact same draft position they were just in, are they supposed to take QB4 over WR1?
I hear ya BUT we have WR 1 now, we have OT 1, quite frankly I think we gambled this year and lost. I think the love for Maye was real but the Pats weren't ever going to budge. I think the Giants (and I think Dottino hinted at this which may mean it was more true than I first thought)_ that bringing in a lower QB prospect (over the more widely regarded WR) in a year that Jones is playing no matter what would invite huge boo birds and calls for the "rookie, the unknown". If that is truly why we did what we did then yes, this group is effed and they are planning, playing and coaching scared..
Colin said the same thing when you interviewed him - that bringing in a better QB than Lock was undesirable for the impact it would have on Daniel.
I hope Daniel plays all 17 games, and I hope he plays them all like he did against Minnesota. It's what they deserve.
Actually, a number of Native American tribes said it didn’t bother them at all.
The QB position in not about finding John Elway or bust, and of Elway is not available you take BPA. The Giants don't have someone who can play the position on the roster and they need to fix that. If that guy plays two years an you need to get another one? You do that!
This team needs a QB who has the potential to at least play at an NFL-average level. That should be the bar, not "Franchise Savior."
The QB position in not about finding John Elway or bust, and of Elway is not available you take BPA. The Giants don't have someone who can play the position on the roster and they need to fix that. If that guy plays two years an you need to get another one? You do that!
This team needs a QB who has the potential to at least play at an NFL-average level. That should be the bar, not "Franchise Savior."
If I were the GM I'd clear out the QB room, sign a vet like Darnold and draft 2 QBs.
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In comment 16604200 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16604102 jvm52106 said:
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I doubt that though, I think we go after the QB in the draft in RD 1.
Didn't we just spend the whole offseason saying you don't draft a QB just to draft a QB?
If they're in the exact same draft position they were just in, are they supposed to take QB4 over WR1?
I hear ya BUT we have WR 1 now, we have OT 1, quite frankly I think we gambled this year and lost. I think the love for Maye was real but the Pats weren't ever going to budge. I think the Giants (and I think Dottino hinted at this which may mean it was more true than I first thought)_ that bringing in a lower QB prospect (over the more widely regarded WR) in a year that Jones is playing no matter what would invite huge boo birds and calls for the "rookie, the unknown". If that is truly why we did what we did then yes, this group is effed and they are planning, playing and coaching scared..
Colin said the same thing when you interviewed him - that bringing in a better QB than Lock was undesirable for the impact it would have on Daniel.
I hope Daniel plays all 17 games, and I hope he plays them all like he did against Minnesota. It's what they deserve.
The funny thing is that for years, one of the things the DJFC has shouted from the rooftops is that Jones is built for NY. Unlike all of the other mentally weak pussies that play QB in the NFL, Jones can take he heat that comes with playing in NY. How many times did people compare him to Eli because "he can handle NY".
Well what happened to that? If he is so built for NY, is so mentally tough, why has the entire organization been terrified to even slightly challenge him? If he can handle NY, unlike all of these other QBs, why would they be so worried about the idea that he might have to compete for and win the job (so much so that the team and Lock had to publicly declare that Jones was the unquestioned starter)?
Senior writer
31. New York Giants
"It's hard to feel good about anything with the Giants after that opener. General manager Joe Schoen, head coach Brian Daboll and quarterback Daniel Jones should all be worried. Also, a defense that allowed Sam Darnold to torch it might be a real problem all season."
IMO, something is just not adding up with this Giants team. It's one thing to get blown out by a Super Bowl contender, but Minnesota? The Giants may not have the greatest personnel, but they played below their talent this past Sunday. Football is such an emotional/momentum sport and the Giants looked stiff and slow right out of the gate. Are the players wondering why Joe Schoen kept Daniel Jones and let Saquon Barkley walk? Have the players tuned out Brian Daboll? Had the team lost faith in their signal-caller before the season even started? Did the players watch Hard Knocks and decide that Joe Schoen is an A-hole? What f-ing gives with this team???
McAdoo, Shurmur, Gettleman, Schoen, Daboll, the list goes on. These are clearly people not able to do the job they represented themselves as being able to do.
It is clear from watching other teams wheel and deal, make their teams stronger, work the cap, celebrate their fans and put a team out there that gives hope and optimism; we are in the desert without shade, water or any mode of transportation.
So when I hear your frustration, Eric....That is all our frustration right now!
And for Daboll to say that Jones is starting again....against one of the many QB's that were slated to be first round picks; this will only further drive our desperation and confirm this organization is the worst in organized sports.
Hey, I gave you and two others "BBI Post of the Week" honors.
Here's a ridiculous thought, did the play calling suck, because Daboll has been told to give DJ a chance, and he knows that the DJ situation is beyond repair? Give him a vanilla playbook, because you know he's going to suck?
Hopefully the Jones experiment ends during the next game (not due to injury please), and we see the play calling improve.
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all of the fans last year saying "You can't force a QB" and what they would like to see this year. Can you force a QB this year because you didn't last year?
The QB position in not about finding John Elway or bust, and of Elway is not available you take BPA. The Giants don't have someone who can play the position on the roster and they need to fix that. If that guy plays two years an you need to get another one? You do that!
This team needs a QB who has the potential to at least play at an NFL-average level. That should be the bar, not "Franchise Savior."
If I were the GM I'd clear out the QB room, sign a vet like Darnold and draft 2 QBs.
Completely on board with that approach. I do like the idea of taking one QB in the first round and a developmental guy later in the 5th or 6th round. Make a statement that the guy who plays the best will start.
Playing QB for the Giants should become a right that is earned, not a crown that is bestowed.
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In comment 16604369 Mike from Ohio said:
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all of the fans last year saying "You can't force a QB" and what they would like to see this year. Can you force a QB this year because you didn't last year?
The QB position in not about finding John Elway or bust, and of Elway is not available you take BPA. The Giants don't have someone who can play the position on the roster and they need to fix that. If that guy plays two years an you need to get another one? You do that!
This team needs a QB who has the potential to at least play at an NFL-average level. That should be the bar, not "Franchise Savior."
If I were the GM I'd clear out the QB room, sign a vet like Darnold and draft 2 QBs.
Completely on board with that approach. I do like the idea of taking one QB in the first round and a developmental guy later in the 5th or 6th round. Make a statement that the guy who plays the best will start.
Playing QB for the Giants should become a right that is earned, not a crown that is bestowed.
The big fear is that the next QB will get the same long leash. Even if they move on from Jones, the fundamental problem remains.
So if you see it, why can't an NFL head coach see it?
It's a problem - I hope I am wrong because I don't think Daboll is performing right now.
Gameday has his imprint all over it, from playcalling to who is actually playing.
I’m no podcast expert, but my only bit of technical feedback would be to try to talk over each other a little less
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all of the fans last year saying "You can't force a QB" and what they would like to see this year. Can you force a QB this year because you didn't last year?
The QB position in not about finding John Elway or bust, and of Elway is not available you take BPA. The Giants don't have someone who can play the position on the roster and they need to fix that. If that guy plays two years an you need to get another one? You do that!
This team needs a QB who has the potential to at least play at an NFL-average level. That should be the bar, not "Franchise Savior."
If I were the GM I'd clear out the QB room, sign a vet like Darnold and draft 2 QBs.
Exactly, there are other options besides drafting a QB in the first round and starting him if he isn't ready. Draft 1, hell draft 2 that you think have potential. Sign a vet and start him until someone else is ready. That is what I hoped they would do last year.
Couldn't be much worse than the garbage we are seeing now and at least it might be some hope for the future.
I do have one piece of advice. Eric, you keep talking over and interrupting John. There were a few points he couldn't finish that were interesting. I get it... You were obviously fired up for this one, but just letting you know in case you're looking for constructive feedback.
I’m no podcast expert, but my only bit of technical feedback would be to try to talk over each other a little less
Yeah, this one was more "emotion" filled, which makes it a little harder to be the conductor. We have it so we both have points and subjects we want etc but I am the conductor, lead in, lead out etc. but last night was a bit more fire driven so that did make it harder for both of us. I will keep that in mind for the next video.
I’m no podcast expert, but my only bit of technical feedback would be to try to talk over each other a little less
That's on me. I don't think I normally do it, but it was non-stop by me in this episode.
I do have one piece of advice. Eric, you keep talking over and interrupting John. There were a few points he couldn't finish that were interesting. I get it... You were obviously fired up for this one, but just letting you know in case you're looking for constructive feedback.
Agreed.
Agree with jvm that this opener was much worse than last year.
You two have a nice chemistry with each other imv. Keep up the good work.
I don't necessarily have an issue with going into the season with Jones as the starter, but even if you think he could be a competent QB, the very fact of his injury history should have precluded bringing in more talent. Then on top of that, the entire dog and pony show to make Lock go up to assure everyone (reassuring one person really) that Jones was the starter. Does anyone think Schoen or Daboll really cared? Or did Mara get his panties in a twist that people may think Jones isn't the starter.
I think Schoen could have convinced Mara that a trade-up to get Maye would still have allowed Jones to be the starter. But the decision not to bring in a decent backup QB is a fireable offense, and that is 100% on Schoen. How you decide to put ALL of your eggs in the Jones basket, if only for his injury history, was utterly foolish.
everyone knew/knows what is coming... it is just a matter of time.
whether it is enough to save Schoens/Daboll's job is TBD.
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What are we doing?
I've been asking this question for years.
I have to admit I'm openly rooting for losses now. Because of they eke out a win in Washington (completely possible) the tenor of the conversation of going to change and the self-delusion will return.
This team has not only been terrible, but also terrible at sucking. We always manage to win some shit meaningless games and lost out on top QB slots in the draft. The best thing for us right now is to go full rock bottom.
If Daboll went public, he wouldn’t get hired as a ball boy. Now, he’s made plenty of money, he doesn’t NEED to work again, but let’s face it, these guys love the lifestyle. The camaraderie, the access, first class travel, hell, McAdoo worked as an unpaid advisor for a year! Daboll’s not giving that up.
If Daboll went public, he wouldn’t get hired as a ball boy. Now, he’s made plenty of money, he doesn’t NEED to work again, but let’s face it, these guys love the lifestyle. The camaraderie, the access, first class travel, hell, McAdoo worked as an unpaid advisor for a year! Daboll’s not giving that up.
You're correct.
Shurmur and Judge got coordinator jobs almost immediately, that McAdoo didn’t makes me wonder if the Mara’s bad-mouthed him for having the temerity to bench Eli?
It's really sad, as a fan, that getting two or three first downs on a drive and then punting the ball feels like a victory. Crossing midfield feels like an accomplishment. How pathetic. Ownership has destroyed the fan base, myself included.
In hindsight, I think that was cheaper than signing Lock...?
I agree 100%. That's why the playcalling sucked so bad imo.
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the idea that if Mara really was the one not allowing a QB change, then Schoen or Daboll should call him out. That simply is not going to happen. Eric is correct when he says that none of McAdoo/Shurmur/Judge got HC jobs again, but you know what each of them got? Coordinator jobs.
If Daboll went public, he wouldn’t get hired as a ball boy. Now, he’s made plenty of money, he doesn’t NEED to work again, but let’s face it, these guys love the lifestyle. The camaraderie, the access, first class travel, hell, McAdoo worked as an unpaid advisor for a year! Daboll’s not giving that up.
You're correct.
I don't agree with this. The defensive coordinator that just embarrassed our offense is Brian Flores. The same Brian Flores who is currently suing multiple NFL teams for racism. The same Brian Flores who aired the dirty laundry of Stephen Ross compelling him to tank. If that guy can still get a defensive coordinator position, I don't see why Daboll would be blackballed from the league for calling out Mara's love of Jones
In hindsight, I think that was cheaper than signing Lock...?
The Steelers are paying their QBs $6M total.
That's why I can't stand the argument that Schoen couldn't do anything at the position.
3 goddamn offseasons and he's done nothing.
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In comment 16604677 Section331 said:
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the idea that if Mara really was the one not allowing a QB change, then Schoen or Daboll should call him out. That simply is not going to happen. Eric is correct when he says that none of McAdoo/Shurmur/Judge got HC jobs again, but you know what each of them got? Coordinator jobs.
If Daboll went public, he wouldn’t get hired as a ball boy. Now, he’s made plenty of money, he doesn’t NEED to work again, but let’s face it, these guys love the lifestyle. The camaraderie, the access, first class travel, hell, McAdoo worked as an unpaid advisor for a year! Daboll’s not giving that up.
You're correct.
I don't agree with this. The defensive coordinator that just embarrassed our offense is Brian Flores. The same Brian Flores who is currently suing multiple NFL teams for racism. The same Brian Flores who aired the dirty laundry of Stephen Ross compelling him to tank. If that guy can still get a defensive coordinator position, I don't see why Daboll would be blackballed from the league for calling out Mara's love of Jones
Because if he doesn’t get hired, the NFL is making his argument for him.
In that first NFL start, he had an open RB in the flat and just did not pull the trigger on the throw until it was too late and the RB got stuffed. It was a throw that thousands of kids make on a playground everyday. That is a microcosm of his ability. Zero instinctiveness. The evidence was there in game one and his instincts as a QB have not moved one fucking fraction of a millimeter since them.
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In comment 16604692 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16604677 Section331 said:
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the idea that if Mara really was the one not allowing a QB change, then Schoen or Daboll should call him out. That simply is not going to happen. Eric is correct when he says that none of McAdoo/Shurmur/Judge got HC jobs again, but you know what each of them got? Coordinator jobs.
If Daboll went public, he wouldn’t get hired as a ball boy. Now, he’s made plenty of money, he doesn’t NEED to work again, but let’s face it, these guys love the lifestyle. The camaraderie, the access, first class travel, hell, McAdoo worked as an unpaid advisor for a year! Daboll’s not giving that up.
You're correct.
I don't agree with this. The defensive coordinator that just embarrassed our offense is Brian Flores. The same Brian Flores who is currently suing multiple NFL teams for racism. The same Brian Flores who aired the dirty laundry of Stephen Ross compelling him to tank. If that guy can still get a defensive coordinator position, I don't see why Daboll would be blackballed from the league for calling out Mara's love of Jones
Because if he doesn’t get hired, the NFL is making his argument for him.
Yeah, but the NFL didn't hire him, the Vikings did. I don't think Kevin O'Connell (a first time head coach who, like all coaches, is coaching for his job) hired someone just to help out the NFL not look racist
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
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for a conditional 6th round pick.
In hindsight, I think that was cheaper than signing Lock...?
The Steelers are paying their QBs $6M total.
That's why I can't stand the argument that Schoen couldn't do anything at the position.
3 goddamn offseasons and he's done nothing.
Looks like Pittsburgh is on the hook for $3.2M for Fields's 2024 salary. Wilson for $1.2M, btw. Combined, that's less than Lock.
I've never bought the argument, either, that Schoen was too hamstrung by the Jones contract to move him this year. A bigger cap hit with a better QB didn't stop a better HC, Sean Payton, from cutting Russell Wilson.
It's interesting listening to these guys mentioning flaws in Jones's games that many of us have been hammering for five years.
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
Absolutely. They failed to manage up.
Regardless of that, we need to start asking about how the situation can be improved vs. who deserves to be the annual scapegoat.
Schoen and Daboll need to go - they are a poor match for this ownership. The Giants need to bring in someone with the cache to treat John Mara like this:
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In comment 16604718 bw in dc said:
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for a conditional 6th round pick.
In hindsight, I think that was cheaper than signing Lock...?
The Steelers are paying their QBs $6M total.
That's why I can't stand the argument that Schoen couldn't do anything at the position.
3 goddamn offseasons and he's done nothing.
Looks like Pittsburgh is on the hook for $3.2M for Fields's 2024 salary. Wilson for $1.2M, btw. Combined, that's less than Lock.
I've never bought the argument, either, that Schoen was too hamstrung by the Jones contract to move him this year. A bigger cap hit with a better QB didn't stop a better HC, Sean Payton, from cutting Russell Wilson.
It's interesting listening to these guys mentioning flaws in Jones's games that many of us have been hammering for five years.
I disagree on the contrtact part. You don't make those decisions in a vaccum and as I said elsewhere I think Mara looks at the cap as more of an actual balance sheet than moveable funny money situation.
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
They’re all to blame. I hate to sound like a broken record, but the way Schoen has handled the QB position is football malpractice. Even if you genuinely believe he was legitimately interested in Maye…not to draft a QB or even upgrade the position from ‘23…it is MADNESS!
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and if you guys know my history, I am the last guy to do that.
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
Absolutely. They failed to manage up.
Regardless of that, we need to start asking about how the situation can be improved vs. who deserves to be the annual scapegoat.
Schoen and Daboll need to go - they are a poor match for this ownership. The Giants need to bring in someone with the cache to treat John Mara like this:
But it looked to me like they kind of did that in Hard Knocks with Barkley. Hence, my point that at some point we have to stop turning Mara into the the bogeyman. Also, did anyone notice Woodstock's post from yesterday?
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
They’re going to have to own it, I agree, but whether they should is another question.
9/8/2024 6:40 pm : link
I mean..that's obvious and Schoens seat is warm and that was before today's game. I want to say one more thing.
GoTerps is 100% percent correct. I was wrong. I assumed Mara pushed to give Jones the contract. Nope. The Daniel Jones contract is Joe Schoens and Dabolls doing. I was shocked when told, especially with how fast they moved to pivot away from him. It sounds nuts but it's true.
I feel like I was in the twilight zone this offseason and during the draft.
And I don’t actually believe it was a Mara mandate, I think Mara’s feelings are always known, but John Mara wasn’t the one falling head over heels with the WR, calling him a “dawg”. That was our head coach.
Schoen and Daboll own this. Mara let Barkley walk to Philly. That has to count for a lot in terms of his willingness to let these guys operate in my opinion.
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Daboll is definitely on the hot seat
9/8/2024 6:40 pm : link
I mean..that's obvious and Schoens seat is warm and that was before today's game. I want to say one more thing.
GoTerps is 100% percent correct. I was wrong. I assumed Mara pushed to give Jones the contract. Nope. The Daniel Jones contract is Joe Schoens and Dabolls doing. I was shocked when told, especially with how fast they moved to pivot away from him. It sounds nuts but it's true.
I'm not following this. Are you/someone saying Terps said all along that the Jones contract was not on Mara, but on Schoen and Daboll?
Now, I think one could definitely argue (given hindsight) that Mara's attachment to Barkley was evident enough that Schoen felt pressured into negotiating a multi-year deal with Jones, leaving him free to franchise Barkley. If the deal with Jones could not be struck, they would've tagged him, and Barkley likely signs elsewhere. But that move would've also limited our cap flexibility to improve the roster in other areas, so maybe making the deal with Jones was the move Schoen preferred to make irrespective of what Mara would've wanted.
That's really what has to happen here. Jones is already done. If these guys don't show that, then he can't be the only one who takes the fall. Not that I'm predicting that. Don't be surprised to see half measures with everything pinned on DJ. If these guys haven't proven that they're not every bit as responsible, than anything less then cleaning house is inexcusable (though exactly what I expect).
I was somewhat more encouraged after reading this part of Sy's review. I assumed no one was getting open. But they were, we just have Mackey Sasser trying to play QB.
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Daboll is definitely on the hot seat
9/8/2024 6:40 pm : link
I mean..that's obvious and Schoens seat is warm and that was before today's game. I want to say one more thing.
GoTerps is 100% percent correct. I was wrong. I assumed Mara pushed to give Jones the contract. Nope. The Daniel Jones contract is Joe Schoens and Dabolls doing. I was shocked when told, especially with how fast they moved to pivot away from him. It sounds nuts but it's true.
Wow. This is a stinging indictment of both Schoen and Daboll. If this is true, they both need to be fired before the season ends. As early as the bye week frankly.
I don’t doubt that Schoen wanted to get the contract done so he could settle with Saquon. After 2022, they knew they couldn’t exactly cut Jones loose, they wanted him back but on their terms. The Saquon negotiations made that impossible.
I hadn't seen that. Wow.
I hope you're right that Mara will go after Belichick. I don't believe it's the best move at this point in his life, but at least it will make me want to watch this fucking team in 2025.
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
Wow. This is a stinging indictment of both Schoen and Daboll. If this is true, they both need to be fired before the season ends. As early as the bye week frankly.
I was hammering away at that for the last year. When Mara said he was turning over the keys to the football operations to Schoen, I totally believed him.
Keep the intro at ten to fifteen seconds MAX. Put the long one at the end as an outro.
I tell the people that work for me, if you do quality work get shit done and are accessible when I need you, I'm not going to hassle you about your working style. What matters is results. That's what I care about, and these guys haven't delivered. If NYG looked good and won, we wouldn't hear a word about HK or Barkley or any of that.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
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Wow. This is a stinging indictment of both Schoen and Daboll. If this is true, they both need to be fired before the season ends. As early as the bye week frankly.
I was hammering away at that for the last year. When Mara said he was turning over the keys to the football operations to Schoen, I totally believed him.
You absolutely called this from the beginning. One of the best early takes I have seen on BBI during my time here. Great job!
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EOM
Hey, I gave you and two others "BBI Post of the Week" honors.
Keep the intro at ten to fifteen seconds MAX. Put the long one at the end as an outro.
Yeah, we know and it will be addressed. Thank you though, appreciate the feedback.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Here is my pushback on this. Going into 2023, I could see Daboll thinking he would be interested in seeing how Jones could do without the training wheels in 2022. So, if Schoen explained the limitations of the QB market, I could see that being an easy sell for Daboll...at least in the short-run...
If they asked "Brian, your head coaching career is tied to Daniel Jones at 20% of the salary cap - yes or no?" Do you really think he's saying yes?
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woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
I hadn't seen that. Wow.
I hope you're right that Mara will go after Belichick. I don't believe it's the best move at this point in his life, but at least it will make me want to watch this fucking team in 2025.
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
I really hope they don't go down the Belichick road. Coughlin was 69 years old when they decided the game had passed him by and forced him out. BB will be 73 next September and hasn't shown he still has his coaching mojo since Brady left New England.
I have said here plenty that I want these 2 guys to succeed here. I really do. But not anymore after this (if true). Holy shit.
If they asked "Brian, your head coaching career is tied to Daniel Jones at 20% of the salary cap - yes or no?" Do you really think he's saying yes?
I don't disagree.
Differently said, I could see Schoen manipulating Daboll into signing off by saying the QB market is not good and they could re-evaluate at the end of 2023.
Prior to the season, many expected Jones to be pulled ala Russell Wilson and Derek Carr once they are out of contention. They cannot risk that injury guarantee. Meanwhile, they looked terrible Week 1 although and it is up in the air if they will defeat the lowly Commanders this weekend. The schedule becomes more difficult thereafter. With all that said, in this case, I hope Daboll and Schoen have some forethought and decide once and for all to play Lock (or Cutlets).
This isn't raising the white flag. This is being intelligent about moving forward.
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
There are a lot of people on this board who think posting about this team or Jones sucking means that it is enjoyable and you want more of it.
It is the exact opposite.
Like you, I post about this team as a way of venting frustration that Sundays just aren't fun like they used to be because this team isn't competitive and there is no sign it is getting better. It is hard to see that and say nothing (even though it is just venting because no decision makers are reading this).
It's crystal clear they both wanted to keep him after 2023, and were fine keeping him for 2024.
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I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
There are a lot of people on this board who think posting about this team or Jones sucking means that it is enjoyable and you want more of it.
It is the exact opposite.
Like you, I post about this team as a way of venting frustration that Sundays just aren't fun like they used to be because this team isn't competitive and there is no sign it is getting better. It is hard to see that and say nothing (even though it is just venting because no decision makers are reading this).
Hopefully that pollyanna nonsense is a thing of the past - at least as it relates to Daniel Jones...
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Agree with you. Just because the Giants gave Jones that deal that doesn't equal "all-in" on him from Daboll.
It could mean Daboll was thinking give him a contract that we can deal with in the short term and still get a couple of other new bodies for my roster under the cap, and let's see how it goes. That's not all-in, that is punting the QB decision to another day and hope DJ keeps performing under my coaching.
Don't get me wrong, that contract was an abomination for such a low-talent passer like Jones. But unfortunately Schoen/Daboll saw a higher talented player in their 2022 evaluation process. Scary as that is.
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And I agree what you said is plausible. But I think you actually agree with me on Daboll.
If they asked "Brian, your head coaching career is tied to Daniel Jones at 20% of the salary cap - yes or no?" Do you really think he's saying yes?
I don't disagree.
Differently said, I could see Schoen manipulating Daboll into signing off by saying the QB market is not good and they could re-evaluate at the end of 2023.
Yes, this sounds closer to reality
Could also be true. Seems that Daboll and Schoen have incredibly big heads for not having accomplished a whole lot.
Team Jones may get lucky again this weekend as Jones runs into the Washington. The team he has owned.
If NYG wins and Jones puts up 200 passing yards, 1 passing TD, maybe 1 running TD and no turnovers, he will get another stay of execution.
And then the mouthpieces for 1925 Giants Way, Banks and Papa, come out and say the rust is starting to come off and Jones is now trending the right way...
It's so easy to write the script with this cast of buffoons.
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Schoen? You want to say he's an idiot or an office creature who will do anything to placate his boss? Its possible.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Here is my pushback on this. Going into 2023, I could see Daboll thinking he would be interested in seeing how Jones could do without the training wheels in 2022. So, if Schoen explained the limitations of the QB market, I could see that being an easy sell for Daboll...at least in the short-run...
I don’t even think it’s that complicated. They made the playoffs, Jones played reasonably well, there was ZERO chance they weren’t resigning him. The only questions were for how much and how long. Those 2 issues are 100% on Schoen, even if he asked Daboll his opinion (which I doubt he would).
I simply will not understand firing the HC because they made a bad contract with their QB. It would be like firing the GM because the HC blew a call in a playoff game.
With the mega-contract making him uncuttable this year, he had to play him, at least initially. Will be very interesting to see how soon he makes a move at QB. There's no way DJ is "his guy" anymore.
As for Schoene, he's the main culprit with 2 big f'ups. (1) Grossly overpaying DJ, and (2) failing to bring in any viable alternative (Fields, even Tyrod). With a starter as weak as DJ, we should have been at the top of the backup QB market. We should have been able to do better than Locke. (I won't blame him for not passing on Nabers and selecting Nix/Penix/JJ, as I think we'll have better QB options in 2025.)
Team Jones may get lucky again this weekend as Jones runs into the Washington. The team he has owned.
If NYG wins and Jones puts up 200 passing yards, 1 passing TD, maybe 1 running TD and no turnovers, he will get another stay of execution.
And then the mouthpieces for 1925 Giants Way, Banks and Papa, come out and say the rust is starting to come off and Jones is now trending the right way...
It's so easy to write the script with this cast of buffoons.
If Baker can hit for the cycle against WFT, Jones can probably manage a single.
If the Giants win this week it will be back to positivity. I guarantee it. "We're 1-1. We started 1-1 in '86 and '11, and '0-2 in '07!"
The game to keep an eye on is the next home game - Thursday night against Dallas week 4. If there's a game that's going to get ugly in a lot of different ways...
We were able to see the alumni section with Shockey sitting with Parcells.
Loved the half time show.
Left at the end of the third.
Eric, you nailed it.
Worst game I ever saw out of Jones.
Spending my Sundays working on my cars and sailboat from now on...
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It's kind of sad in a way. The group of posters on here who vilified anyone being realistic about Jones, all gave up on him after a week.
Team Jones may get lucky again this weekend as Jones runs into the Washington. The team he has owned.
If NYG wins and Jones puts up 200 passing yards, 1 passing TD, maybe 1 running TD and no turnovers, he will get another stay of execution.
And then the mouthpieces for 1925 Giants Way, Banks and Papa, come out and say the rust is starting to come off and Jones is now trending the right way...
It's so easy to write the script with this cast of buffoons.
They get paid by the organization and that is how it works if you want to keep your job.
Unfortunately, it's easier than ever for fans to sell tickets to other teams' fans, and profit off that exchange. That's not ideal for ownership, but as long as someone is buying parking, food, drinks, etc, that still goes to the top and bottom lines for ownership.
I always thought Mara was the driving force behind the Jones contract, although I am not sure that this one comment will convince me otherwise. But if that is true, the absent a miraculous turnaround, Schoen and Daboll should both be fired at the end of the season. The Jones contract is much worse than the contracts that DG gave to Golladay and Solder. And it will get even worse if Jones is injured and the Giants have to pay his $23M injury guarantee.
The QB is responsible for reading the defense and snuffing out potentially bad plays before they occur. If you guys could see that the play had catastrophe written all over it, then why the hell didn't Jones see that? And call a timeout...
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In comment 16604372 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16604369 Mike from Ohio said:
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all of the fans last year saying "You can't force a QB" and what they would like to see this year. Can you force a QB this year because you didn't last year?
The QB position in not about finding John Elway or bust, and of Elway is not available you take BPA. The Giants don't have someone who can play the position on the roster and they need to fix that. If that guy plays two years an you need to get another one? You do that!
This team needs a QB who has the potential to at least play at an NFL-average level. That should be the bar, not "Franchise Savior."
If I were the GM I'd clear out the QB room, sign a vet like Darnold and draft 2 QBs.
Completely on board with that approach. I do like the idea of taking one QB in the first round and a developmental guy later in the 5th or 6th round. Make a statement that the guy who plays the best will start.
Playing QB for the Giants should become a right that is earned, not a crown that is bestowed.
The big fear is that the next QB will get the same long leash. Even if they move on from Jones, the fundamental problem remains.
Keep the intro at ten to fifteen seconds MAX. Put the long one at the end as an outro.
The QB is responsible for reading the defense and snuffing out potentially bad plays before they occur. If you guys could see that the play had catastrophe written all over it, then why the hell didn't Jones see that? And call a timeout...
Solid point, he had to see the disaster that was coming..
I totally agree that Jones shouldn't play another down for the Giants ever again. There is no upside. The downside of course is that he could get hurt to the point where he can't pass a physical next year, which would trigger his $23M injury guarantee. He is as you say "broken" and can't be fixed.
Jones is going to start against Washington. But I still think his "leash" is short, and another two or at most three games like Minnesota will get him benched. At some point it has to happen out of fairness to the other players.
I totally agree that Jones shouldn't play another down for the Giants ever again. There is no upside. The downside of course is that he could get hurt to the point where he can't pass a physical next year, which would trigger his $23M injury guarantee. He is as you say "broken" and can't be fixed.
Jones is going to start against Washington. But I still think his "leash" is short, and another two or at most three games like Minnesota will get him benched. At some point it has to happen out of fairness to the other players.
While I agree with you on what SHOULD happen, what about anything they’ve done makes you think they will pull the plug on the Daniel Jones experiment? I’m done thinking they are that smart. I’ll believe it when I see it
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show. Thanks.
I totally agree that Jones shouldn't play another down for the Giants ever again. There is no upside. The downside of course is that he could get hurt to the point where he can't pass a physical next year, which would trigger his $23M injury guarantee. He is as you say "broken" and can't be fixed.
Jones is going to start against Washington. But I still think his "leash" is short, and another two or at most three games like Minnesota will get him benched. At some point it has to happen out of fairness to the other players.
While I agree with you on what SHOULD happen, what about anything they’ve done makes you think they will pull the plug on the Daniel Jones experiment? I’m done thinking they are that smart. I’ll believe it when I see it
Because a mutiny will happen. The first true sign that things are heading in that direction would be for Devito to be active on game day.
?
I don't know what you are referring to.
Ok so you are saying 2 out of 32 teams do that..
Agree, the fanbase is burned out on this garbage.
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Teams like the Chiefs and the Steelers play a lot of starters over multiple games in preseason.
Ok so you are saying 2 out of 32 teams do that..
It seems kind of nit picky on that one subject.
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Teams like the Chiefs and the Steelers play a lot of starters over multiple games in preseason.
?
I don't know what you are referring to.
I thought John was suggesting that every team in the NFL basically doesn't play anyone in the preseason. Which is why QB play in week 1 was so poor across the NFL (true)...
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In comment 16605180 bw in dc said:
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Teams like the Chiefs and the Steelers play a lot of starters over multiple games in preseason.
?
I don't know what you are referring to.
I thought John was suggesting that every team in the NFL basically doesn't play anyone in the preseason. Which is why QB play in week 1 was so poor across the NFL (true)...
You want me to list the teams that didn't play their starters? It will bw far more than 2 teams.
You want me to list the teams that didn't play their starters? It will bw far more than 2 teams.
I know the majority of the league doesn't. But it's not every team.
Every wonder why, however, the Chiefs and Steelers seems to start off most years with wins and good Septembers. Perhaps it's because they have less rust than most teams...That's my point.
On the other hand, the Rams play nobody. And McVay is more than willing to manage through that with the intent on peaking late.
This is what Daboll is doing. He knows he cannot win with the qb that was hoisted upon him.
Play him for 17 games go 0-17 and make Mara fire me. Thats what i would do.
Refuse to start anyone else at qb.
💯
But wait you’re wrong. Like the Dumb and Dumber line it keeps alive the fantasy that maaaaybe Jones can still be the guy. “So you’re saying there’s a chance?”
And how do we know that woodstock’s source is not a Mara PR tool?
Possibly the Giants PR machine already in effect. They are more effective than the team as a whole.
In fact the starters should play most of the preseason because they need the practice playing together as a GD team!
Since when do lousy teams not need practice?
Another reason why we suck
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woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
And how do we know that woodstock’s source is not a Mara PR tool?
A Mara PR tool would be talking to Paul Schwartz not a nobody like me. I'm gonna try to make it as clear as I can.
Mara likes Jones and wants him to succeed as NY QB. He was obviously pro signing Daniel. Everyone knows that
So was Joe Schoen. When Joe signed him to the contract it=Joe getting his QB. Joe owns the signing of Jones not Mara. They both were on the same page. But in the end Joe made the call.
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In comment 16604793 Eric from BBI said:
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woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
And how do we know that woodstock’s source is not a Mara PR tool?
A Mara PR tool would be talking to Paul Schwartz not a nobody like me. I'm gonna try to make it as clear as I can.
Mara likes Jones and wants him to succeed as NY QB. He was obviously pro signing Daniel. Everyone knows that
So was Joe Schoen. When Joe signed him to the contract it=Joe getting his QB. Joe owns the signing of Jones not Mara. They both were on the same page. But in the end Joe made the call.
Then Schoen isn't the right man for this job.
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In comment 16604793 Eric from BBI said:
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woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
And how do we know that woodstock’s source is not a Mara PR tool?
A Mara PR tool would be talking to Paul Schwartz not a nobody like me. I'm gonna try to make it as clear as I can.
Mara likes Jones and wants him to succeed as NY QB. He was obviously pro signing Daniel. Everyone knows that
So was Joe Schoen. When Joe signed him to the contract it=Joe getting his QB. Joe owns the signing of Jones not Mara. They both were on the same page. But in the end Joe made the call.
Schoen definitely owns the contract, but there is absolutely some blme-shifting going on here. Let's be honest, there was absolutely no way Mara would have signed off on letting Jones walk after 2022. No. Way.
Schoen bears the brunt of responsibility, that is totally fair, but for Mara to try to pass this all off as Schoen's decision is beyond disingenuous. And we've seen this film before, things go bad, the Mara's circle the wagons and blame everyone else.
Everyone not named Mara is right now wondering about their future should there be a shakeup. The easiest and surest to keep your job is to align yourself with the Mara's and re-spin their take.
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In comment 16604793 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
And how do we know that woodstock’s source is not a Mara PR tool?
A Mara PR tool would be talking to Paul Schwartz not a nobody like me. I'm gonna try to make it as clear as I can.
Mara likes Jones and wants him to succeed as NY QB. He was obviously pro signing Daniel. Everyone knows that
So was Joe Schoen. When Joe signed him to the contract it=Joe getting his QB. Joe owns the signing of Jones not Mara. They both were on the same page. But in the end Joe made the call.
Speaking of Paul Schwartz
Daniel Jones’ stunning ineptitude has made for a massive Giants mess - ( New Window )
Jones has been the one common denominator. Get a NFL competent qb and watch those complaints disappear.
The Chiefs make a big PR deal about Mahomes playing in the pre-season, but what actually happens?
Week 1 KC: Mahomes played one possession.
Week 1 NYG: Giants don't play starters but had two days of joint practices with the Lions. The Chiefs don't do joint practices.
Week 2 KC: Mahomes played two possessions in the 1Q. For the Chiefs' next possession, with 3:13 still remaining in the 1Q, Mahomes is on the sidelines, not to return.
Week 2 NYG: Giants play starters, including Jones, the entire first half, five offensive possessions.
Week 3: Nobody plays starters. Giants have a joint practice with the Jets.
Total preseason game possessions played: Jones 5, Mahomes 3. And the Giants have three days of joint practices the Chiefs don't have.
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Teams like the Chiefs and the Steelers play a lot of starters over multiple games in preseason.
The Chiefs make a big PR deal about Mahomes playing in the pre-season, but what actually happens?
Week 1 KC: Mahomes played one possession.
Week 1 NYG: Giants don't play starters but had two days of joint practices with the Lions. The Chiefs don't do joint practices.
Week 2 KC: Mahomes played two possessions in the 1Q. For the Chiefs' next possession, with 3:13 still remaining in the 1Q, Mahomes is on the sidelines, not to return.
Week 2 NYG: Giants play starters, including Jones, the entire first half, five offensive possessions.
Week 3: Nobody plays starters. Giants have a joint practice with the Jets.
Total preseason game possessions played: Jones 5, Mahomes 3. And the Giants have three days of joint practices the Chiefs don't have.
KC is the reigning SB champ and Mahomes is the best player in the league. The Giants won 6 games, their starter is coming off an ACL and hadn't played in 9 months.
I know that coaches love to point at joint practices as more productive than preseason, and I get why, but for QB's they aren't remotely the same. You don't get hit in joint practices, so it isn't the same game prep for QB's as it is for others.
Now if your KC with Mahomes, who cares, he doesn't need the live reps, but if your QB hasn't played in 9 months? He needs to play when real bullets are flying. That isn't happening with joint sessions.
KC is the reigning SB champ and Mahomes is the best player in the league. The Giants won 6 games, their starter is coming off an ACL and hadn't played in 9 months.
I know that coaches love to point at joint practices as more productive than preseason, and I get why, but for QB's they aren't remotely the same. You don't get hit in joint practices, so it isn't the same game prep for QB's as it is for others.
Now if your KC with Mahomes, who cares, he doesn't need the live reps, but if your QB hasn't played in 9 months? He needs to play when real bullets are flying. That isn't happening with joint sessions.
If you wish to beat that drum, you can beat it. I don't happen to agree. Daniel Jones is who he is and exposing him and other starters (who would have to be out there with him) to more risk of injury in pre-season won't change that.
The point I was responding to is the claim the Chiefs are doing something notably different. They're not.
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one small point of feedback. I have been letting my young kids listen to this podcast with me as they come out. Has been a great way for us to bond over the Giants. Couple in grade school, one in middle school.
Unfortunately, we had to cut this one off early because of the language.
However, I totally get the frustration, and I don't want you guys to adjust the format; it's great when you guys speak from your heart, and not try to hold things back. So, if the podcast is geared more towards adults, I get it.
I'll listen on my own; sounds like this episode is going to be a doozy!
Thank you for all the hard work you guys put into this.
Gottcha.... and duly noted moving forward.
Finally got to listen during some mid-day drive time today, I thought to myself it was good to hear Eric swearing so much, you were speaking for all of us!
But the point about kids listening in is a good one:)