should have been the end of Jones. Daboll's reaction to his poor play that night said it all. Most of us pointed to that moment (when Daboll tossed the tablet) all offseason and we can never unsee it.
It is beyond stunning they came back to him this year. I've never seen anything like this.
Thanks for sitting through this. I couldn't - turned it off at halftime. At least I could turn the Yankees on.
Jones was worse than usual. Almost every ball he threw was a misfire.
You are correct, some teams are complete crap coming off pre-season. Some are VG.
But I though Daboll's play calling was terrible. I always thought Kafka had no feel, in game. If I didn't know Daboll was calling the plays, I would have thought it was Kafka. I had no clue as to what he was trying to do.
I just don't see how they can turn it around after 1 week of finally playing a full game together either. Seems like something that is going to take weeks to iron out and at that point, the season will be over.
Accurate and fair. It would love to hear what Bowen and Patterson have to say about Chatman. He actually got two more snaps than Davidson. Glad to hear your comments about DJ.
If and when they get that #2 corner, this could develop into a very good a and young secondary.
RE: pass rush - there is a big difference between OLB and DE, especially when you want to get pressure solely from the front 4. KT and BB looked lost when they could not elude the OTs (which was just about every snap), they simply did not have the strength or hand fighting ability or feet to react. And there is no true DE on the roster. I remember during the HardKnoocks, Bowen mentioned Basham as being a possible fit for his scheme. They better figure it out, this could be a real problem. (Wonder if they will be pondering a KT trade at some point?)
Muasau was a pleasant surprise. With McFaden and Adams(if he can stay healthy) - I think the DL and interior can be competitive - which leads us back to the missing Edge guys.
which of course is not a surprise and glad you could clesr up about open receivers which many said there were none..Sucks that Jones is so afraid to throw it deep even if it is to Nabers..
The secondary also if i am reading correctly did not play a horrible game and seems like there is talent there, the strongest unit is the safeties...Nubin is going to be a stud..
Also good review on Banks which i couldnt understand the hate he was getting on this site after he basically followed Jefferson all around the field
Surprisingly more positive individual performances than I expected
He doesn't deserve it, but Jones has one more week. Another ugly loss, this time to a Washington team who has only beaten us 6 times in the last 10 years with a rookie QB making his second ever start, and we are in abandon all hope territory.
Thanks Sy: great review on a awful game performance
I agree 100% with you on your closing thought#1.
You put the pads on you play with intensity.
Thst Jets joint practice was a waste of time with no intensity.
That’s on Daboll.
Sorry I’m old school when it comes to football.
Thank you Sy.
I was encouraged by what you said about DJ Davidson. Dex needs the help. I had checked PFF and IIRC they had him in the 30s so glad to see the truth is much better than PFFs guess.
They motioned WDR open; it's a throw based on footwork from the snap.
At the time, I thought nothing of the short gain.
Upon closer look, DJ held the ball until the defender could make the play. He had to see that WDR was open, instead of making the throw immediately.
thanks Sy, great job as always. I completely agree re lack of playing
time in preseason. The quality of SEP games today are worse than the AUG games in the 80s.
I have not been one to constantly bash Jones, it's boring, but this quote "but Jones failed to pull the trigger. I expect that to change in Week Two." puzzles me. Can you please elaborate on why you think it will be different? It's his 6th year. Even on 3rd down before the 1st FG, he rolled out with all receivers seemingly covered, we all see the S leave his man to chase Jones, and rather than float it over him for a sure TD, he keeps his head down and runs. He's making Dave Brown look good.
also that really should not be there.
Jones missed WanDale on a slant that seemed that WanDale sat down on and Jones anticipated him continuing across underneath. I think DJ was correct there - the middle was cleared out and had Wandale kept moving would have been a decent game - (2nd qtr).
But other than that, Jones was just awful - truly dreadful.
They motioned WDR open; it's a throw based on footwork from the snap.
At the time, I thought nothing of the short gain.
Upon closer look, DJ held the ball until the defender could make the play. He had to see that WDR was open, instead of making the throw immediately.
That 1st half tip by the a Vikings LB on the ball thrown to Malik? Same story. The ball should have come out of the pocket as Malik was turning around.
constantly and his passes are (almost always) on a very steep downward trajectory when coming across the middle and to the outside (swing or just in the flat) to either side.
Overall, SY referenced the same analogy I used in our video, Jones has become Knoblauch- he literally is almost pushing the ball out of his hand without any real belief this will work.
* I do think the Giants MUST play with more tempo if for no other reason to keep Jones out of his own head..
These should be huge reasons for a successful franchise. Yet the QB fucking sucks and brings everyone down with him. Costing people money and their careers. It's everyone else's fault though, right?
which of course is not a surprise and glad you could clesr up about open receivers which many said there were none..Sucks that Jones is so afraid to throw it deep even if it is to Nabers..
The secondary also if i am reading correctly did not play a horrible game and seems like there is talent there, the strongest unit is the safeties...Nubin is going to be a stud..
Also good review on Banks which i couldnt understand the hate he was getting on this site after he basically followed Jefferson all around the field
On Banks: Sy said this
“The athleticism is truly elite, but the nuances, forecasting, and accuracy of hands and feet are what will be needed to be a true CB1 in this league.”
To me, that means aside from being a great athlete, of which there are plenty in the league, he is still short the other traits to be a true CB1
Jones pump fakes the open WR and then checks it down. He doesn’t want to throw it deep. All22 - ( New Window )
Its an easy throw to, even if you throw it without hitting him in stride, put it on him and its an easy 20 yard gain and maybe he makes the safety miss
which of course is not a surprise and glad you could clesr up about open receivers which many said there were none..Sucks that Jones is so afraid to throw it deep even if it is to Nabers..
The secondary also if i am reading correctly did not play a horrible game and seems like there is talent there, the strongest unit is the safeties...Nubin is going to be a stud..
Also good review on Banks which i couldnt understand the hate he was getting on this site after he basically followed Jefferson all around the field
On Banks: Sy said this
“The athleticism is truly elite, but the nuances, forecasting, and accuracy of hands and feet are what will be needed to be a true CB1 in this league.”
To me, that means aside from being a great athlete, of which there are plenty in the league, he is still short the other traits to be a true CB1
He is not saying he doesnt habe that, he is saying that is what is needed, he also clearly stated he followed arguably the best receiver in football and did a good job
Dl wasn't leading the receivers so they could possibly get a bigger play. I remember the first 25 yard completion to Nabers, he basically did a 20 yard buttonhook, turned around and waited for the ball. A lot of other routes did the same thing. Seems like either BD or DJ himself didn't trust that DJ could hit a deep receiver in-stride.
"There were numerous plays where Jones had the target open. The play design, timing, and protection were all there. But it was like a catcher who can’t throw the ball back to the pitcher. Or for Yankees fans, like Chuck Knoblauch struggling with throwing the ball to first base on routine ground balls in 2000. There is a mental block."
It feels like reading this preview...Sy thinks Jones is significantly holding this entire team back.
I get the same sense: the team might be better than it showed but the QB is dragging the entire operation down. I don’t think Lock or DeVito would make much of a difference. We have the worst Qb room in the league. That means all 3 of them.
Thanks Sy - another tough slog of a year ahead for you with this team, but your insight and effort is much appreciated!
I absolutely love the misfire paradigm. Not just because it is an insightful way to evaluate quarterback passing quality and acutely identifies the severe lack of ability in Daniel Jones, which you clearly identified in 2019 and hasn't changed in the slightest since then, but it also articulates exactly what the DJ Era has been to this franchise. The greatest set of decision making misfires in Giants history, and the most rapid fall from grace of an elite franchise perhaps in NFL history.
Hopefully this is the moment of clarity that is needed for Mara and Schoen to permanently move off DJ. I see zero benefit for this team and the guys in that locker room having to endure another snap under center from this fraud of a player.
should have been the end of Jones. Daboll's reaction to his poor play that night said it all. Most of us pointed to that moment (when Daboll tossed the tablet) all offseason and we can never unsee it.
It is beyond stunning they came back to him this year. I've never seen anything like this.
This and the grim smile he gave in HK when he asked if this was the QB room they are going with tell me the decision to play Jones isn’t his. Even if you don’t think he’s an effective HC, he’s been around the league for a long time, he knows a good QB when he sees one, and when he doesn’t.
If it had been up to him, I think he would have benched Jones after that pick 6 v Seattle. It was vintage Daniel, the play worked to perfection, setting up Waller to be open in the back of the EZ, but Jones was late, hesitated, and then made a panicked throw outside. The Jones error can’t end soon enough.
It feels like reading this preview...Sy thinks Jones is significantly holding this entire team back.
I get the same sense: the team might be better than it showed but the QB is dragging the entire operation down. I don’t think Lock or DeVito would make much of a difference. We have the worst Qb room in the league. That means all 3 of them.
I think at least with Lock or Devito they would push the ball down the field..
should have been the end of Jones. Daboll's reaction to his poor play that night said it all. Most of us pointed to that moment (when Daboll tossed the tablet) all offseason and we can never unsee it.
It is beyond stunning they came back to him this year. I've never seen anything like this.
This and the grim smile he gave in HK when he asked if this was the QB room they are going with tell me the decision to play Jones isn’t his. Even if you don’t think he’s an effective HC, he’s been around the league for a long time, he knows a good QB when he sees one, and when he doesn’t.
If it had been up to him, I think he would have benched Jones after that pick 6 v Seattle. It was vintage Daniel, the play worked to perfection, setting up Waller to be open in the back of the EZ, but Jones was late, hesitated, and then made a panicked throw outside. The Jones error can’t end soon enough.
When asked about the offense a giants assistant I ran into said “we’re going to have to be creative to score points”.
The coaches know he isn’t it, but I don’t think it’s their call.
Jones pump fakes the open WR and then checks it down. He doesn’t want to throw it deep. All22 - ( New Window )
Its an easy throw to, even if you throw it without hitting him in stride, put it on him and its an easy 20 yard gain and maybe he makes the safety miss
That play right there is one of the first passes they look at to see if a QB has an NFL arm. He needs to zip it into the 2nd level before the S gets there. If you remember that Eli "Chad" under cover skit, Eli threw that pass and the coach turned to the OC and said we don't have anyone that can throw that. If Jones can complete that then what is he doing out there? I would bench him now for Lock. If Lock doesn't work then its DeVito. DJ would be a #3 QB
To get Daniel Jones in-game reps. Bad move IMO. But in the end, maybe it just doesn’t matter anymore.
"Unless Daboll crosses us up, DeVito may play the entire game."
M.S. : 8/23/2024 7:05 am : link
Daniel Jones needs reps, lots of them. IMO it would be a huge mistake to sit him against the Jets. He needs to see as much live action as possible. He should at least play the first half.
The players know when the QB gives them no chance to win.
Its why i dont think Daboll waits much longer, i dont think he will let another full game go by allowing the Qzb to bring down the entire team
I dunno, Daboll didn’t even budge an inch on the topic of Giants after Sunday. Every single question or insinuation I’ve heard about another QB has been immediately shut down.
Tiki made a good point on his radio show yesterday that he thinks it may come after the Dallas TNF game with the mini bye week that follows. It’s logical for sure, I’d argue it just pisses away 3 more games, but then again he never would have been my QB this year to begin with.
RE: RE: RE: This is how you lose a locker room fast
The players know when the QB gives them no chance to win.
Its why i dont think Daboll waits much longer, i dont think he will let another full game go by allowing the Qzb to bring down the entire team
I dunno, Daboll didn’t even budge an inch on the topic of Giants after Sunday. Every single question or insinuation I’ve heard about another QB has been immediately shut down.
Tiki made a good point on his radio show yesterday that he thinks it may come after the Dallas TNF game with the mini bye week that follows. It’s logical for sure, I’d argue it just pisses away 3 more games, but then again he never would have been my QB this year to begin with.
It feels like reading this preview...Sy thinks Jones is significantly holding this entire team back.
I get the same sense: the team might be better than it showed but the QB is dragging the entire operation down. I don’t think Lock or DeVito would make much of a difference. We have the worst Qb room in the league. That means all 3 of them.
I still have an open mind on Lock. I haven't really seen him play.
DeVito I have seen play and I do think he would be an upgrade over Jones in at least he throws the ball deep. He does hold it too long sometimes, but significantly less than Jones.
RE: RE: RE: This is how you lose a locker room fast
The players know when the QB gives them no chance to win.
Its why i dont think Daboll waits much longer, i dont think he will let another full game go by allowing the Qzb to bring down the entire team
I dunno, Daboll didn’t even budge an inch on the topic of Giants after Sunday. Every single question or insinuation I’ve heard about another QB has been immediately shut down.
Tiki made a good point on his radio show yesterday that he thinks it may come after the Dallas TNF game with the mini bye week that follows. It’s logical for sure, I’d argue it just pisses away 3 more games, but then again he never would have been my QB this year to begin with.
Daboll is not going to say anything publicly and we wont hear naything about reps because the media doesnt see it..
The first sign will be Devito being active
RE: RE: RE: The home game against Seattle last year
should have been the end of Jones. Daboll's reaction to his poor play that night said it all. Most of us pointed to that moment (when Daboll tossed the tablet) all offseason and we can never unsee it.
It is beyond stunning they came back to him this year. I've never seen anything like this.
This and the grim smile he gave in HK when he asked if this was the QB room they are going with tell me the decision to play Jones isn’t his. Even if you don’t think he’s an effective HC, he’s been around the league for a long time, he knows a good QB when he sees one, and when he doesn’t.
If it had been up to him, I think he would have benched Jones after that pick 6 v Seattle. It was vintage Daniel, the play worked to perfection, setting up Waller to be open in the back of the EZ, but Jones was late, hesitated, and then made a panicked throw outside. The Jones error can’t end soon enough.
When asked about the offense a giants assistant I ran into said “we’re going to have to be creative to score points”.
The coaches know he isn’t it, but I don’t think it’s their call.
Wow, that’s depressing. I also think it’s confirmation that Mara is still pulling the strings when it comes to Jones. I simply will not believe that Schoen would ignore Daboll wanting to make a change. I literally don’t give a shit what we saw on HK, there was a reason there were no cameras in Mara’s suite.
should have been the end of Jones. Daboll's reaction to his poor play that night said it all. Most of us pointed to that moment (when Daboll tossed the tablet) all offseason and we can never unsee it.
It is beyond stunning they came back to him this year. I've never seen anything like this.
This and the grim smile he gave in HK when he asked if this was the QB room they are going with tell me the decision to play Jones isn’t his. Even if you don’t think he’s an effective HC, he’s been around the league for a long time, he knows a good QB when he sees one, and when he doesn’t.
If it had been up to him, I think he would have benched Jones after that pick 6 v Seattle. It was vintage Daniel, the play worked to perfection, setting up Waller to be open in the back of the EZ, but Jones was late, hesitated, and then made a panicked throw outside. The Jones error can’t end soon enough.
When asked about the offense a giants assistant I ran into said “we’re going to have to be creative to score points”.
The coaches know he isn’t it, but I don’t think it’s their call.
Wow, that’s depressing. I also think it’s confirmation that Mara is still pulling the strings when it comes to Jones. I simply will not believe that Schoen would ignore Daboll wanting to make a change. I literally don’t give a shit what we saw on HK, there was a reason there were no cameras in Mara’s suite.
Exactly.
They gave us what they wanted us to see.Nothing more.
Daboll and Schoen don't want this kid as their QB. Never did IMO.
I cant understand why a Giants fan would be unwilling
on a historic day for the franchise, no less. Jones isn't Eli by a million miles. We honestly see him bullying the coach into playing Jones? I don't see that, or evidence for it.
Sy - given how poorly Van Roten played and how poor Runyan was in the running game, how can it make sense to keep Evan Neal on the sidelines and not at least try him at RG? We know he is a ferocious run blocker, and he might be at least as good as Van Roten in pass pro between JMS and JE. It just doesn't make any sense to have a recent top ten pick literally doing nothing for a team in such dire straits...
-Adoree’ Jackson appeared to be on a pitch count considering he was not with the team until just a couple weeks ago. The 36-yard pass interference on a 3rd-and-8 stop (which led to an eventual touchdown) was a bogus call from a traditionalist perspective, but it was another clear example of where the game is now. In my book, Jackson did everything he could there. Otherwise, his coverage was solid, and he made a quick tackle after a short third-down catch that was a nice play.
This needs to be addressed by the league. Heaving 3rd and long and QB's throwing up Hail Mary's that result in bullshit PI's, automatic first downs and moving the ball 40/50 yards down the field needs to be addressed by the rules committee. I don't know the answer but it needs to be addressed.
That play altered the course of the game. This team is not and has not been good at rebounding from dagger situations like that and it happened once again.
-Adoree’ Jackson appeared to be on a pitch count considering he was not with the team until just a couple weeks ago. The 36-yard pass interference on a 3rd-and-8 stop (which led to an eventual touchdown) was a bogus call from a traditionalist perspective, but it was another clear example of where the game is now. In my book, Jackson did everything he could there. Otherwise, his coverage was solid, and he made a quick tackle after a short third-down catch that was a nice play.
This needs to be addressed by the league. Heaving 3rd and long and QB's throwing up Hail Mary's that result in bullshit PI's, automatic first downs and moving the ball 40/50 yards down the field needs to be addressed by the rules committee. I don't know the answer but it needs to be addressed.
That play altered the course of the game. This team is not and has not been good at rebounding from dagger situations like that and it happened once again.
It was an awful awful call. But the league won't do shit about it. They'll say (1) did the call lead to a TD; (2) if so, what's the problem.
They knew Barkley was the better player. KT admitted he should have been paid before Jones. Now Jones is costing them. It's ugly.
Exactly. This was all about locker room psychology. It was about the Giants taking care of a fraud and nickel and diming an elite talent. Using the positional value argument could not have been more tone deaf and more stupid in terms of motivating a team...
RE: I cant understand why a Giants fan would be unwilling
To believe that pulling the plug on Jones is a decision that has to be brought to Mara for approval.
Its how this franchise has operated for years. Who plays QB for the NY Giants is something that gets discussed by ownership.
The last time someone tried to play games with the starting QB Mara hung the coach and GM out to dry and fired them.
I get that, any owner does and should have say in what QB is starting, but this is beyond ridiculous. To me, it’s pretty clear Daboll was done with Jones after the tablet throwing incident, and I simply will not believe that it is Schoen who is holding out on making a change.
So if the owner is so hell-bent on his guy being the starter that he is overruling his own personnel guys, THAT IS A BIG FUCKING PROBLEM! Mara did it before with Eli, agreeing to allow McAdoo to bench him, than throwing McAdoo under the bus when the blowback came. And then, even after all that, deciding that Eli was still good enough to build around.
This team will continue to flounder as long as the Mara clan is deeply involved in personnel decisions. We all hoped that Mara would give Schoen free rein, and Hard Knocks was designed to give that impression, but it doesn’t appear to be remotely true.
RE: RE: The players don't care about positional value
They knew Barkley was the better player. KT admitted he should have been paid before Jones. Now Jones is costing them. It's ugly.
Exactly. This was all about locker room psychology. It was about the Giants taking care of a fraud and nickel and diming an elite talent. Using the positional value argument could not have been more tone deaf and more stupid in terms of motivating a team...
Thomas’s quote on the oline last week was clearly directed at the QB.
RE: RE: The players don't care about positional value
They knew Barkley was the better player. KT admitted he should have been paid before Jones. Now Jones is costing them. It's ugly.
Exactly. This was all about locker room psychology. It was about the Giants taking care of a fraud and nickel and diming an elite talent. Using the positional value argument could not have been more tone deaf and more stupid in terms of motivating a team...
The other issue I think gets overlooked is where’s our Jordan Mason? Tank Bigsby? Charbonnet? Nearly every other team in the league has a running back that just steps in fairly cheaply and produces.
on a historic day for the franchise, no less. Jones isn't Eli by a million miles. We honestly see him bullying the coach into playing Jones? I don't see that, or evidence for it.
I don’t see how you don’t see any evidence for it. It’s circumstantial to be sure, but come on, neither Daboll or Schoen is going to come out and say, “yeah, we wanted to make a change but we’re overruled”.
Daboll’s interaction with Jones after the Seattle pick 6, his eagerness on HK with any QB Schoen brought up, his forced smile when Schoen said yes to Daboll’s “so this is our QB room this year” - all of that tells me Daboll was ready to move on last year. And I simply will not believe if he went to Schoen and pounded the table to make a change, that Schoen wouldn’t allow him to do it.
So if not, who was preventing them? There is only one other guy, and it was the 9ne with no cameras in his office suite.
Funny, first words I spoke out loud after kickoff...
...were "Late as usual, even on a check down" on the first pass play. Forget Theo, it's amazing that the RBs don't injure themselves from the unnatural movements they have to make to get a hand on some of the throws coming their general direction.
Thanks for the comments on Adofo-Mensah, Sy. Maybe he and everybody else should be analyzing Will McClay.
Learning something from your reviews makes the mental dumpster diving that is watching this team less miserable.
-Adoree’ Jackson appeared to be on a pitch count considering he was not with the team until just a couple weeks ago. The 36-yard pass interference on a 3rd-and-8 stop (which led to an eventual touchdown) was a bogus call from a traditionalist perspective, but it was another clear example of where the game is now. In my book, Jackson did everything he could there. Otherwise, his coverage was solid, and he made a quick tackle after a short third-down catch that was a nice play.
This needs to be addressed by the league. Heaving 3rd and long and QB's throwing up Hail Mary's that result in bullshit PI's, automatic first downs and moving the ball 40/50 yards down the field needs to be addressed by the rules committee. I don't know the answer but it needs to be addressed.
That play altered the course of the game. This team is not and has not been good at rebounding from dagger situations like that and it happened once again.
It was an awful awful call. But the league won't do shit about it. They'll say (1) did the call lead to a TD; (2) if so, what's the problem.
Why did Jackson even touch him? the ball was underthrown, should been a pick.
These should be huge reasons for a successful franchise. Yet the QB fucking sucks and brings everyone down with him. Costing people money and their careers. It's everyone else's fault though, right?
Agreed.
Very encouraging about JMS and Davidson. I thought JMS had at best an average game. What do I know.
Question, obviously Jones was a major issue here but what about the rest of the team. It looked like they were not well prepped to play. What are your thoughts on how this team is coached? Seems to me 2 years in a row the team was out coached in game 1.
Also, the personnel decisions just seemed odd. Phillips was having a great game and only plays 16 plays and Flott coming off injury is playing more and looked out of place. That’s just one example.
On D, the pass rush was non existent yet it seemed like there was no adjustment?
what are your thoughts on tempo of the game? They are down by 2 or more scores yet they are playing like it’s a one score game with runs, taking too much time in the huddle and no quickness or urgency. I think that’s on coaching.
Last, us fans can’t see practice, but I suspect Jones has similar issues yet no other QB got legit 1st team reps. If you were coaching, would you have brought in Lock for an open competition? Just seems like no matter who is coaching this team the game day decisions are very suspect. They start strong but quickly fall into head scratching decisions
on a historic day for the franchise, no less. Jones isn't Eli by a million miles. We honestly see him bullying the coach into playing Jones? I don't see that, or evidence for it.
I don’t see how you don’t see any evidence for it. It’s circumstantial to be sure, but come on, neither Daboll or Schoen is going to come out and say, “yeah, we wanted to make a change but we’re overruled”.
Daboll’s interaction with Jones after the Seattle pick 6, his eagerness on HK with any QB Schoen brought up, his forced smile when Schoen said yes to Daboll’s “so this is our QB room this year” - all of that tells me Daboll was ready to move on last year. And I simply will not believe if he went to Schoen and pounded the table to make a change, that Schoen wouldn’t allow him to do it.
So if not, who was preventing them? There is only one other guy, and it was the 9ne with no cameras in his office suite.
Coaches are almost always slower to pull the trigger than the fans wish. They spend the time building a plan and developing all training camp. Rarely do you see dramatic changes in the league made immediately after week 1. That's not just here, that's NFL wide.
and Schoen kept saying it was only about the first few games when they weren't sure Jones would be back healthy yet. Both guys have been on board with Jones since they signed him to that ridiculous contract and blaming Mara is weak when he obviously also wanted #26 to stick around but let Schoen and Daboll make that call.
I have to say the offensive play calling was not good for most of the game, hopefully Daboll shakes that off.
The defense is going to give up a high completion rates with the zone they run, basically the underneath is open on every play. They will have to get better at closing faster and tackling.
Agree about using game 1 to make too much of a judgement.
Not as hard on Jones as you considering it was his first game back after injury but it seemed clear he had some panic syndrome so the off target throws are not surprising nor are the misses. He will need to get over it fast.
Some good positives on the new guys. Giants need that.
That miss percentage you are utilizing is interesting. Look forward to seeing more on it.
and Schoen kept saying it was only about the first few games when they weren't sure Jones would be back healthy yet. Both guys have been on board with Jones since they signed him to that ridiculous contract and blaming Mara is weak when he obviously also wanted #26 to stick around but let Schoen and Daboll make that call.
If anyone still had any questions, here is John Mara just yesterday:
“I’m still glad we gave Daniel that contract.”
No accountability, not for Mara, and certainly not for Jones. There will be for Schoen and Daboll if this season continues to go south.
According to Carl Banks, LT thought the old timers would have outplayed the Giants on Sunday:
Quote:
“Lawrence looked at me at halftime and said, ‘Carl, I could pick 22 of us right now and go out and play better than these guys. We’d be in this game.’ The youngest guy in that line was probably 50 years old. Lawrence Taylor looked at me and said, ‘I can get 22 of us right now and go out there right now and whoop these guys’ ass.’”
do I root for rock bottom and hope they fire Daboll? Daboll scares the shit out of me all of a sudden. I was saying all Summer he seems to be a good offensive mind and his team didn't quit last season but the stubborn act and odd personnel moves is disconcerting to say the least. And then there's the lack of preparedness to start yet another season. And the way the QB and team looks to be getting worse. And if you're going to re-sign Jones, you had better be damn sure Jones is capable of running this downfield passing attack. So many things to be worried about. I know it's one week. Fine. But at some point we're all going to be rooting for rock bottom YET AGAIN. Rock bottom? 3-4 wins? And then what? We draft some QB from butt hump USA and all our problems go away?
Yes we need a QB, but at some point this staff needs to show they can cultivate and develop and maintain a winning program bad QB or not. And how the fuck are we supposed to buy in if the QB they re-signed turned into the worst starting QB in the NFL...I give up.
It's hard to possess any faith unless this team rips off some wins and sustained good play. It was easy to believe them after 2022 even if you were the most cynical and had no confidence in Jones. At least there was a 18 game sample size. 2022 might as well be 2002. It doesn't matter anymore.
SY - on TV the color commentator kept saying that whenever Dex left for a rest that Minny ran the ball inisde immeditately and did it with great success.
-Adoree’ Jackson appeared to be on a pitch count considering he was not with the team until just a couple weeks ago. The 36-yard pass interference on a 3rd-and-8 stop (which led to an eventual touchdown) was a bogus call from a traditionalist perspective, but it was another clear example of where the game is now. In my book, Jackson did everything he could there. Otherwise, his coverage was solid, and he made a quick tackle after a short third-down catch that was a nice play.
This needs to be addressed by the league. Heaving 3rd and long and QB's throwing up Hail Mary's that result in bullshit PI's, automatic first downs and moving the ball 40/50 yards down the field needs to be addressed by the rules committee. I don't know the answer but it needs to be addressed.
That play altered the course of the game. This team is not and has not been good at rebounding from dagger situations like that and it happened once again.
It was an awful awful call. But the league won't do shit about it. They'll say (1) did the call lead to a TD; (2) if so, what's the problem.
Watched alot of CFL this summer and they actually have a PI Challenge
to reliving the game, so I just went to the Studs and Duds to see the heroes and
goats of the game.
goats had to be a challenge because there had to be at least a dozen options.
I question that type of comment. People are so overreacting. Most people knew DJ would be gone after this year. Predictions for our win total by some were 3-7 games. Jones proved he is shell shocked on Sunday. People that want a high 2025 draft pick will get their wish. No real surprises so far. We don’t have a good back up QB. No surprise there either.
I did not watch HK. The HC and GM could be gone because there are too many questions and Mara may not trust them chosing the next QB. Seen this show in the 70’s. As a longtime fan (1956) I don’t get as excited as some. Disappointed yes.
-Adoree’ Jackson appeared to be on a pitch count considering he was not with the team until just a couple weeks ago. The 36-yard pass interference on a 3rd-and-8 stop (which led to an eventual touchdown) was a bogus call from a traditionalist perspective, but it was another clear example of where the game is now. In my book, Jackson did everything he could there. Otherwise, his coverage was solid, and he made a quick tackle after a short third-down catch that was a nice play.
This needs to be addressed by the league. Heaving 3rd and long and QB's throwing up Hail Mary's that result in bullshit PI's, automatic first downs and moving the ball 40/50 yards down the field needs to be addressed by the rules committee. I don't know the answer but it needs to be addressed.
That play altered the course of the game. This team is not and has not been good at rebounding from dagger situations like that and it happened once again.
It was an awful awful call. But the league won't do shit about it. They'll say (1) did the call lead to a TD; (2) if so, what's the problem.
If Jackson doesn't make such a lame attempt at trying to make it look like he got his head around as he was lunging toward the receiver who beat him, that call likely doesn't get made. His hilariously lunge and turn made it look like interference live. It wasn't till I saw the replay that I could tell what really happened. He should have just put both hands up in the air and not try to turn.
If Jackson doesn't make such a lame attempt at trying to make it look like he got his head around as he was lunging toward the receiver who beat him, that call likely doesn't get made. His hilariously lunge and turn made it look like interference live. It wasn't till I saw the replay that I could tell what really happened. He should have just put both hands up in the air and not try to turn.
Except that is what the league said is legal. If the DB turns and looks for the ball then it is not interference if there is contact. And what gives Jefferson the right to jump over and into Jackson who has every right to the ball in the air. And the ball was underthrown, giving Jackson an even greater right to the ball as he was closer to it.
The refs going to call whatever they want anyway and it almost always goes in favor of the WR
If Jackson doesn't make such a lame attempt at trying to make it look like he got his head around as he was lunging toward the receiver who beat him, that call likely doesn't get made. His hilariously lunge and turn made it look like interference live. It wasn't till I saw the replay that I could tell what really happened. He should have just put both hands up in the air and not try to turn.
Except that is what the league said is legal. If the DB turns and looks for the ball then it is not interference if there is contact. And what gives Jefferson the right to jump over and into Jackson who has every right to the ball in the air. And the ball was underthrown, giving Jackson an even greater right to the ball as he was closer to it.
The refs going to call whatever they want anyway and it almost always goes in favor of the WR
Dabolls horrendous play calling.
Daboll - why are we still taking delay of game penalties?! get the SHIT play in to your Shit QB so he can make a shit throw to the flats.
Daboll take a shot in the endzone after the defense gets you the ball on the opponents 20!
Daboll - why did you hire Shane Bowen? I'm extremely worried about a bend but dont break defense that has one good DL and a suspect secondary not to mention an offense that cant score.
Bowen why do you take Phillips out after causing a fumble and making a hell of a tackle to force a 4th and 2 from the goal line?
Bowen move on from McCloud after he cant take the right angle or set the edge.
Thats only in the first half. Just horrible to watch.
Just a few words about your very last statement about how Week One can lead to some odd outcomes and is not very predictive of how seasons actually unfold. I've seen this phenomenon enough times over 60 years to recognize the veracity of the statement.
But I have to make an exception with the 2024 New York Giants. Their listless game against Minny is a simple reflection of a debased franchise that lost its way years ago and doesn't have a clue how to steady the ship. There are a lot more embarrassing losses for the Giants in 2024 with numerous blowouts on the horizon.
RE: RE: I never saw Daboll give any impression he wanted to move on from Jones
and Schoen kept saying it was only about the first few games when they weren't sure Jones would be back healthy yet. Both guys have been on board with Jones since they signed him to that ridiculous contract and blaming Mara is weak when he obviously also wanted #26 to stick around but let Schoen and Daboll make that call.
If anyone still had any questions, here is John Mara just yesterday:
“I’m still glad we gave Daniel that contract.”
No accountability, not for Mara, and certainly not for Jones. There will be for Schoen and Daboll if this season continues to go south.
That was back in May.
RE: Sy'56 great game review and insights as always
Just a few words about your very last statement about how Week One can lead to some odd outcomes and is not very predictive of how seasons actually unfold. I've seen this phenomenon enough times over 60 years to recognize the veracity of the statement.
But I have to make an exception with the 2024 New York Giants. Their listless game against Minny is a simple reflection of a debased franchise that lost its way years ago and doesn't have a clue how to steady the ship. There are a lot more embarrassing losses for the Giants in 2024 with numerous blowouts on the horizon.
If Jackson doesn't make such a lame attempt at trying to make it look like he got his head around as he was lunging toward the receiver who beat him, that call likely doesn't get made. His hilariously lunge and turn made it look like interference live. It wasn't till I saw the replay that I could tell what really happened. He should have just put both hands up in the air and not try to turn.
Except that is what the league said is legal. If the DB turns and looks for the ball then it is not interference if there is contact. And what gives Jefferson the right to jump over and into Jackson who has every right to the ball in the air. And the ball was underthrown, giving Jackson an even greater right to the ball as he was closer to it.
The refs going to call whatever they want anyway and it almost always goes in favor of the WR
The problems is he didn't get turn. He just failed in a way to try to make it look like he had his head turned. He had no idea where the ball was. He only has a right to the ball if he's making a play for it. He never did. He looked like an UDFA rookie in preseason on that play.
restraint. You could have hammered Jones, but you made a thoughtful, non emotional assessment.
I am surprised you didn’t have more to say about the HC, on several levels from play calling to personnel choices, to schemes and adjustments (or lack there of).
To me, he was as much a problem as Jones was.
If Jackson doesn't make such a lame attempt at trying to make it look like he got his head around as he was lunging toward the receiver who beat him, that call likely doesn't get made. His hilariously lunge and turn made it look like interference live. It wasn't till I saw the replay that I could tell what really happened. He should have just put both hands up in the air and not try to turn.
Except that is what the league said is legal. If the DB turns and looks for the ball then it is not interference if there is contact. And what gives Jefferson the right to jump over and into Jackson who has every right to the ball in the air. And the ball was underthrown, giving Jackson an even greater right to the ball as he was closer to it.
The refs going to call whatever they want anyway and it almost always goes in favor of the WR
The problems is he didn't get turn. He just failed in a way to try to make it look like he had his head turned. He had no idea where the ball was. He only has a right to the ball if he's making a play for it. He never did. He looked like an UDFA rookie in preseason on that play.
Look again. He was turned and Jefferson came over Jackson's shoulder and back. So how was he not turned. I agree it didn't look like he saw the ball. But that does not matter, he only needs to look back for the ball. It does not say he needs to see it.
...Mackey Sasser is the catcher that couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher.
Dale Murphy had a related problem as a catcher. He could throw the ball back to the pitcher, but not accurately. This was the reason the Braves moved him to the outfield.
RE: SO many other issues aside from DJs shit play this game
Dabolls horrendous play calling.
Daboll - why are we still taking delay of game penalties?! get the SHIT play in to your Shit QB so he can make a shit throw to the flats.
Daboll take a shot in the endzone after the defense gets you the ball on the opponents 20!
Daboll - why did you hire Shane Bowen? I'm extremely worried about a bend but dont break defense that has one good DL and a suspect secondary not to mention an offense that cant score.
Bowen why do you take Phillips out after causing a fumble and making a hell of a tackle to force a 4th and 2 from the goal line?
Bowen move on from McCloud after he cant take the right angle or set the edge.
Thats only in the first half. Just horrible to watch.
time in preseason. The quality of SEP games today are worse than the AUG games in the 80s.
I have not been one to constantly bash Jones, it's boring, but this quote "but Jones failed to pull the trigger. I expect that to change in Week Two." puzzles me. Can you please elaborate on why you think it will be different? It's his 6th year. Even on 3rd down before the 1st FG, he rolled out with all receivers seemingly covered, we all see the S leave his man to chase Jones, and rather than float it over him for a sure TD, he keeps his head down and runs. He's making Dave Brown look good.
I think he knows he can't figure out the golf swing on the fly. It didn't work. He is up against the wall and he will to let it rip in week 2. If not - his time may be over.
RE: RE: thanks Sy, great job as always. I completely agree re lack of playing
I think he knows he can't figure out the golf swing on the fly. It didn't work. He is up against the wall and he will to let it rip in week 2. If not - his time may be over.
Week 2 is an interesting collision.
Jones has owned Washington. But Quinn has owned Jones as the DC in Dallas.
We'll see what Quinn can do with a less talented cast...
They just weren't ready. They weren't! Two years in a row they come out flat and I think a weak training camp in terms of reps together contributed to the poor play.
This is on Daboll and the coaches!!!!
Simply put, if Jones doesn't have a big game vs the Commanders and we lose because he misfires or throws bad interceptions again, the season is lost as the next six games are brutal.
If we start 0 - 2, there will be tremendous pressure to bench Jones and essentially end the Daboll regime but don't fall for it folks. Jones is better then Lock right now, IMHO, despite his flaws. But if we lose to Dallas as well then you have no choice but to go to Lock.
An 0 - 3 start would signal firings and a time for a complete rehaul of this team. Daboll and Schoen inherited Jones, yes, but they also paid him cause they didn't keep the 5th year option on him due to his injuries. Just bad luck or bad evaluations or both?
...Mackey Sasser is the catcher that couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher.
Dale Murphy had a related problem as a catcher. He could throw the ball back to the pitcher, but not accurately. This was the reason the Braves moved him to the outfield.
World Darts Champion Eric Bristow, aka "The Crafty Cockney" succumbed to dartitis, where he was unable to let go of his darts properly. It fairly ruined his game.
There's probably a ten pin bowler out there somewhere with the same problem.
RE: RE: RE: I never saw Daboll give any impression he wanted to move on from Jones
If anyone still had any questions, here is John Mara just yesterday:
“I’m still glad we gave Daniel that contract.”
No accountability, not for Mara, and certainly not for Jones. There will be for Schoen and Daboll if this season continues to go south.
That was back in May.
It was on August 1, as I stated earlier in the thread.
Quote:
"Listen, I'm still happy we gave him that contract because I felt he played really well for us in '22," Mara said during an event to unveil a mural at the Hackensack Medical Center to celebrate the team's 100th season. "Last year he got hurt and, let's be honest, when he was playing, we weren't blocking anybody. So let's give him a chance with a better offensive line and some weapons around him and see what he can do."
...Mackey Sasser is the catcher that couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher.
Dale Murphy had a related problem as a catcher. He could throw the ball back to the pitcher, but not accurately. This was the reason the Braves moved him to the outfield.
World Darts Champion Eric Bristow, aka "The Crafty Cockney" succumbed to dartitis, where he was unable to let go of his darts properly. It fairly ruined his game.
There's probably a ten pin bowler out there somewhere with the same problem.
Ian Baker-Finch is a golfer who won the 1991 British Open. By the mid '90s, he had completely lost the ability to compete on the tour, retiring from professional golf after shooting a 92 in the first round of the 1997 British Open. He shanked and hooked shots like a weekend duffer.
RE: RE: thanks Sy, great job as always. I completely agree re lack of playing
time in preseason. The quality of SEP games today are worse than the AUG games in the 80s.
I have not been one to constantly bash Jones, it's boring, but this quote "but Jones failed to pull the trigger. I expect that to change in Week Two." puzzles me. Can you please elaborate on why you think it will be different? It's his 6th year. Even on 3rd down before the 1st FG, he rolled out with all receivers seemingly covered, we all see the S leave his man to chase Jones, and rather than float it over him for a sure TD, he keeps his head down and runs. He's making Dave Brown look good.
I think he knows he can't figure out the golf swing on the fly. It didn't work. He is up against the wall and he will to let it rip in week 2. If not - his time may be over.
Jack Nicklaus often describes his mental process of fixing his golf swing...mid shot...in some cases he is talking about a particular shot on a particular hole-40 years earlier....unreal
DJ got thrown to the lions too quickly and probably will never recover.
They just weren't ready. They weren't! Two years in a row they come out flat and I think a weak training camp in terms of reps together contributed to the poor play.
This is on Daboll and the coaches!!!!
Simply put, if Jones doesn't have a big game vs the Commanders and we lose because he misfires or throws bad interceptions again, the season is lost as the next six games are brutal.
If we start 0 - 2, there will be tremendous pressure to bench Jones and essentially end the Daboll regime but don't fall for it folks. Jones is better then Lock right now, IMHO, despite his flaws. But if we lose to Dallas as well then you have no choice but to go to Lock.
An 0 - 3 start would signal firings and a time for a complete rehaul of this team. Daboll and Schoen inherited Jones, yes, but they also paid him cause they didn't keep the 5th year option on him due to his injuries. Just bad luck or bad evaluations or both?
there's a question at this point as to who could possibly be worse than Jones who has thrown more pick 6's than td pass since he signed his gift letter. As a passer, he is third best on his own team. Jones has been God awful in multiple starts going back to the 2022 playoff in Philadelphia. The Giants should be willing to take the risk.
RE: RE: thanks Sy, great job as always. I completely agree re lack of playing
time in preseason. The quality of SEP games today are worse than the AUG games in the 80s.
I have not been one to constantly bash Jones, it's boring, but this quote "but Jones failed to pull the trigger. I expect that to change in Week Two." puzzles me. Can you please elaborate on why you think it will be different? It's his 6th year. Even on 3rd down before the 1st FG, he rolled out with all receivers seemingly covered, we all see the S leave his man to chase Jones, and rather than float it over him for a sure TD, he keeps his head down and runs. He's making Dave Brown look good.
I think he knows he can't figure out the golf swing on the fly. It didn't work. He is up against the wall and he will to let it rip in week 2. If not - his time may be over.
Gotcha. Thanks.
RE: RE: Why does Daboll seem so preternaturally calm
should have been the end of Jones. Daboll's reaction to his poor play that night said it all. Most of us pointed to that moment (when Daboll tossed the tablet) all offseason and we can never unsee it.
It is beyond stunning they came back to him this year. I've never seen anything like this.
This and the grim smile he gave in HK when he asked if this was the QB room they are going with tell me the decision to play Jones isn’t his. Even if you don’t think he’s an effective HC, he’s been around the league for a long time, he knows a good QB when he sees one, and when he doesn’t.
If it had been up to him, I think he would have benched Jones after that pick 6 v Seattle. It was vintage Daniel, the play worked to perfection, setting up Waller to be open in the back of the EZ, but Jones was late, hesitated, and then made a panicked throw outside. The Jones error can’t end soon enough.
When asked about the offense a giants assistant I ran into said “we’re going to have to be creative to score points”.
The coaches know he isn’t it, but I don’t think it’s their call.
Wow, that’s depressing. I also think it’s confirmation that Mara is still pulling the strings when it comes to Jones. I simply will not believe that Schoen would ignore Daboll wanting to make a change. I literally don’t give a shit what we saw on HK, there was a reason there were no cameras in Mara’s suite.
I am in this camp.
RE: I cant understand why a Giants fan would be unwilling
on a historic day for the franchise, no less. Jones isn't Eli by a million miles. We honestly see him bullying the coach into playing Jones? I don't see that, or evidence for it.
I don’t see how you don’t see any evidence for it. It’s circumstantial to be sure, but come on, neither Daboll or Schoen is going to come out and say, “yeah, we wanted to make a change but we’re overruled”.
Daboll’s interaction with Jones after the Seattle pick 6, his eagerness on HK with any QB Schoen brought up, his forced smile when Schoen said yes to Daboll’s “so this is our QB room this year” - all of that tells me Daboll was ready to move on last year. And I simply will not believe if he went to Schoen and pounded the table to make a change, that Schoen wouldn’t allow him to do it.
So if not, who was preventing them? There is only one other guy, and it was the 9ne with no cameras in his office suite.
The puppet master.
RE: RE: I cant understand why a Giants fan would be unwilling
To believe that pulling the plug on Jones is a decision that has to be brought to Mara for approval.
Its how this franchise has operated for years. Who plays QB for the NY Giants is something that gets discussed by ownership.
The last time someone tried to play games with the starting QB Mara hung the coach and GM out to dry and fired them.
I get that, any owner does and should have say in what QB is starting, but this is beyond ridiculous. To me, it’s pretty clear Daboll was done with Jones after the tablet throwing incident, and I simply will not believe that it is Schoen who is holding out on making a change.
So if the owner is so hell-bent on his guy being the starter that he is overruling his own personnel guys, THAT IS A BIG FUCKING PROBLEM! Mara did it before with Eli, agreeing to allow McAdoo to bench him, than throwing McAdoo under the bus when the blowback came. And then, even after all that, deciding that Eli was still good enough to build around.
This team will continue to flounder as long as the Mara clan is deeply involved in personnel decisions. We all hoped that Mara would give Schoen free rein, and Hard Knocks was designed to give that impression, but it doesn’t appear to be remotely true.
Your posts are on point.
Look at the history... This ownership has showed their hand and pattern of behavior when before there was not enough history of their actions so they could hide behind the fall guys they eloquently set up and allow the fans to guillotine said falls guys all the while keeping the fanbase either confused or falsely satiated... Except now it's become obvious what is going on if you simply ask yourself what consistent factor (ownership) and behavior remains despite the revolving door of GM's and coaches?
It is beyond stunning they came back to him this year. I've never seen anything like this.
Jones was worse than usual. Almost every ball he threw was a misfire.
You are correct, some teams are complete crap coming off pre-season. Some are VG.
But I though Daboll's play calling was terrible. I always thought Kafka had no feel, in game. If I didn't know Daboll was calling the plays, I would have thought it was Kafka. I had no clue as to what he was trying to do.
If and when they get that #2 corner, this could develop into a very good a and young secondary.
RE: pass rush - there is a big difference between OLB and DE, especially when you want to get pressure solely from the front 4. KT and BB looked lost when they could not elude the OTs (which was just about every snap), they simply did not have the strength or hand fighting ability or feet to react. And there is no true DE on the roster. I remember during the HardKnoocks, Bowen mentioned Basham as being a possible fit for his scheme. They better figure it out, this could be a real problem. (Wonder if they will be pondering a KT trade at some point?)
Muasau was a pleasant surprise. With McFaden and Adams(if he can stay healthy) - I think the DL and interior can be competitive - which leads us back to the missing Edge guys.
The secondary also if i am reading correctly did not play a horrible game and seems like there is talent there, the strongest unit is the safeties...Nubin is going to be a stud..
Also good review on Banks which i couldnt understand the hate he was getting on this site after he basically followed Jefferson all around the field
You put the pads on you play with intensity.
Thst Jets joint practice was a waste of time with no intensity.
That’s on Daboll.
Sorry I’m old school when it comes to football.
I was encouraged by what you said about DJ Davidson. Dex needs the help. I had checked PFF and IIRC they had him in the 30s so glad to see the truth is much better than PFFs guess.
They motioned WDR open; it's a throw based on footwork from the snap.
At the time, I thought nothing of the short gain.
Upon closer look, DJ held the ball until the defender could make the play. He had to see that WDR was open, instead of making the throw immediately.
I have not been one to constantly bash Jones, it's boring, but this quote "but Jones failed to pull the trigger. I expect that to change in Week Two." puzzles me. Can you please elaborate on why you think it will be different? It's his 6th year. Even on 3rd down before the 1st FG, he rolled out with all receivers seemingly covered, we all see the S leave his man to chase Jones, and rather than float it over him for a sure TD, he keeps his head down and runs. He's making Dave Brown look good.
All22 - ( New Window )
Jones missed WanDale on a slant that seemed that WanDale sat down on and Jones anticipated him continuing across underneath. I think DJ was correct there - the middle was cleared out and had Wandale kept moving would have been a decent game - (2nd qtr).
But other than that, Jones was just awful - truly dreadful.
They motioned WDR open; it's a throw based on footwork from the snap.
At the time, I thought nothing of the short gain.
Upon closer look, DJ held the ball until the defender could make the play. He had to see that WDR was open, instead of making the throw immediately.
That 1st half tip by the a Vikings LB on the ball thrown to Malik? Same story. The ball should have come out of the pocket as Malik was turning around.
Overall, SY referenced the same analogy I used in our video, Jones has become Knoblauch- he literally is almost pushing the ball out of his hand without any real belief this will work.
* I do think the Giants MUST play with more tempo if for no other reason to keep Jones out of his own head..
The secondary also if i am reading correctly did not play a horrible game and seems like there is talent there, the strongest unit is the safeties...Nubin is going to be a stud..
Also good review on Banks which i couldnt understand the hate he was getting on this site after he basically followed Jefferson all around the field
On Banks: Sy said this
“The athleticism is truly elite, but the nuances, forecasting, and accuracy of hands and feet are what will be needed to be a true CB1 in this league.”
To me, that means aside from being a great athlete, of which there are plenty in the league, he is still short the other traits to be a true CB1
Its an easy throw to, even if you throw it without hitting him in stride, put it on him and its an easy 20 yard gain and maybe he makes the safety miss
Quote:
which of course is not a surprise and glad you could clesr up about open receivers which many said there were none..Sucks that Jones is so afraid to throw it deep even if it is to Nabers..
The secondary also if i am reading correctly did not play a horrible game and seems like there is talent there, the strongest unit is the safeties...Nubin is going to be a stud..
Also good review on Banks which i couldnt understand the hate he was getting on this site after he basically followed Jefferson all around the field
On Banks: Sy said this
“The athleticism is truly elite, but the nuances, forecasting, and accuracy of hands and feet are what will be needed to be a true CB1 in this league.”
To me, that means aside from being a great athlete, of which there are plenty in the league, he is still short the other traits to be a true CB1
He is not saying he doesnt habe that, he is saying that is what is needed, he also clearly stated he followed arguably the best receiver in football and did a good job
I get the same sense: the team might be better than it showed but the QB is dragging the entire operation down. I don’t think Lock or DeVito would make much of a difference. We have the worst Qb room in the league. That means all 3 of them.
I absolutely love the misfire paradigm. Not just because it is an insightful way to evaluate quarterback passing quality and acutely identifies the severe lack of ability in Daniel Jones, which you clearly identified in 2019 and hasn't changed in the slightest since then, but it also articulates exactly what the DJ Era has been to this franchise. The greatest set of decision making misfires in Giants history, and the most rapid fall from grace of an elite franchise perhaps in NFL history.
Hopefully this is the moment of clarity that is needed for Mara and Schoen to permanently move off DJ. I see zero benefit for this team and the guys in that locker room having to endure another snap under center from this fraud of a player.
It is beyond stunning they came back to him this year. I've never seen anything like this.
This and the grim smile he gave in HK when he asked if this was the QB room they are going with tell me the decision to play Jones isn’t his. Even if you don’t think he’s an effective HC, he’s been around the league for a long time, he knows a good QB when he sees one, and when he doesn’t.
If it had been up to him, I think he would have benched Jones after that pick 6 v Seattle. It was vintage Daniel, the play worked to perfection, setting up Waller to be open in the back of the EZ, but Jones was late, hesitated, and then made a panicked throw outside. The Jones error can’t end soon enough.
I guess the ideal is Neal reclaiming the RT spot and Jermaine E moving inside.
Quote:
It feels like reading this preview...Sy thinks Jones is significantly holding this entire team back.
I get the same sense: the team might be better than it showed but the QB is dragging the entire operation down. I don’t think Lock or DeVito would make much of a difference. We have the worst Qb room in the league. That means all 3 of them.
I think at least with Lock or Devito they would push the ball down the field..
I mean Daboll was 3-3 with Tommy Devito at QB
Quote:
should have been the end of Jones. Daboll's reaction to his poor play that night said it all. Most of us pointed to that moment (when Daboll tossed the tablet) all offseason and we can never unsee it.
It is beyond stunning they came back to him this year. I've never seen anything like this.
This and the grim smile he gave in HK when he asked if this was the QB room they are going with tell me the decision to play Jones isn’t his. Even if you don’t think he’s an effective HC, he’s been around the league for a long time, he knows a good QB when he sees one, and when he doesn’t.
If it had been up to him, I think he would have benched Jones after that pick 6 v Seattle. It was vintage Daniel, the play worked to perfection, setting up Waller to be open in the back of the EZ, but Jones was late, hesitated, and then made a panicked throw outside. The Jones error can’t end soon enough.
When asked about the offense a giants assistant I ran into said “we’re going to have to be creative to score points”.
The coaches know he isn’t it, but I don’t think it’s their call.
Its why i dont think Daboll waits much longer, i dont think he will let another full game go by allowing the Qzb to bring down the entire team
I half wonder if this is why Thibodeaux was a no show.
Quote:
Jones pump fakes the open WR and then checks it down. He doesn’t want to throw it deep. All22 - ( New Window )
Its an easy throw to, even if you throw it without hitting him in stride, put it on him and its an easy 20 yard gain and maybe he makes the safety miss
That play right there is one of the first passes they look at to see if a QB has an NFL arm. He needs to zip it into the 2nd level before the S gets there. If you remember that Eli "Chad" under cover skit, Eli threw that pass and the coach turned to the OC and said we don't have anyone that can throw that. If Jones can complete that then what is he doing out there? I would bench him now for Lock. If Lock doesn't work then its DeVito. DJ would be a #3 QB
And they hear it from friends and family. You don’t think Nabers pals aren’t telling him that he isn’t getting the rock because the QB is incompetent?
"Unless Daboll crosses us up, DeVito may play the entire game."
M.S. : 8/23/2024 7:05 am : link
Daniel Jones needs reps, lots of them. IMO it would be a huge mistake to sit him against the Jets. He needs to see as much live action as possible. He should at least play the first half.
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The players know when the QB gives them no chance to win.
Its why i dont think Daboll waits much longer, i dont think he will let another full game go by allowing the Qzb to bring down the entire team
I dunno, Daboll didn’t even budge an inch on the topic of Giants after Sunday. Every single question or insinuation I’ve heard about another QB has been immediately shut down.
Tiki made a good point on his radio show yesterday that he thinks it may come after the Dallas TNF game with the mini bye week that follows. It’s logical for sure, I’d argue it just pisses away 3 more games, but then again he never would have been my QB this year to begin with.
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In comment 16604168 Sean said:
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The players know when the QB gives them no chance to win.
Its why i dont think Daboll waits much longer, i dont think he will let another full game go by allowing the Qzb to bring down the entire team
I dunno, Daboll didn’t even budge an inch on the topic of Giants after Sunday. Every single question or insinuation I’ve heard about another QB has been immediately shut down.
Tiki made a good point on his radio show yesterday that he thinks it may come after the Dallas TNF game with the mini bye week that follows. It’s logical for sure, I’d argue it just pisses away 3 more games, but then again he never would have been my QB this year to begin with.
Should read “on the topic of a qb switch”
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It feels like reading this preview...Sy thinks Jones is significantly holding this entire team back.
I get the same sense: the team might be better than it showed but the QB is dragging the entire operation down. I don’t think Lock or DeVito would make much of a difference. We have the worst Qb room in the league. That means all 3 of them.
I still have an open mind on Lock. I haven't really seen him play.
DeVito I have seen play and I do think he would be an upgrade over Jones in at least he throws the ball deep. He does hold it too long sometimes, but significantly less than Jones.
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In comment 16604168 Sean said:
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The players know when the QB gives them no chance to win.
Its why i dont think Daboll waits much longer, i dont think he will let another full game go by allowing the Qzb to bring down the entire team
I dunno, Daboll didn’t even budge an inch on the topic of Giants after Sunday. Every single question or insinuation I’ve heard about another QB has been immediately shut down.
Tiki made a good point on his radio show yesterday that he thinks it may come after the Dallas TNF game with the mini bye week that follows. It’s logical for sure, I’d argue it just pisses away 3 more games, but then again he never would have been my QB this year to begin with.
Daboll is not going to say anything publicly and we wont hear naything about reps because the media doesnt see it..
The first sign will be Devito being active
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In comment 16604053 Chris684 said:
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should have been the end of Jones. Daboll's reaction to his poor play that night said it all. Most of us pointed to that moment (when Daboll tossed the tablet) all offseason and we can never unsee it.
It is beyond stunning they came back to him this year. I've never seen anything like this.
This and the grim smile he gave in HK when he asked if this was the QB room they are going with tell me the decision to play Jones isn’t his. Even if you don’t think he’s an effective HC, he’s been around the league for a long time, he knows a good QB when he sees one, and when he doesn’t.
If it had been up to him, I think he would have benched Jones after that pick 6 v Seattle. It was vintage Daniel, the play worked to perfection, setting up Waller to be open in the back of the EZ, but Jones was late, hesitated, and then made a panicked throw outside. The Jones error can’t end soon enough.
When asked about the offense a giants assistant I ran into said “we’re going to have to be creative to score points”.
The coaches know he isn’t it, but I don’t think it’s their call.
Wow, that’s depressing. I also think it’s confirmation that Mara is still pulling the strings when it comes to Jones. I simply will not believe that Schoen would ignore Daboll wanting to make a change. I literally don’t give a shit what we saw on HK, there was a reason there were no cameras in Mara’s suite.
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In comment 16604160 Section331 said:
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In comment 16604053 Chris684 said:
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should have been the end of Jones. Daboll's reaction to his poor play that night said it all. Most of us pointed to that moment (when Daboll tossed the tablet) all offseason and we can never unsee it.
It is beyond stunning they came back to him this year. I've never seen anything like this.
This and the grim smile he gave in HK when he asked if this was the QB room they are going with tell me the decision to play Jones isn’t his. Even if you don’t think he’s an effective HC, he’s been around the league for a long time, he knows a good QB when he sees one, and when he doesn’t.
If it had been up to him, I think he would have benched Jones after that pick 6 v Seattle. It was vintage Daniel, the play worked to perfection, setting up Waller to be open in the back of the EZ, but Jones was late, hesitated, and then made a panicked throw outside. The Jones error can’t end soon enough.
When asked about the offense a giants assistant I ran into said “we’re going to have to be creative to score points”.
The coaches know he isn’t it, but I don’t think it’s their call.
Wow, that’s depressing. I also think it’s confirmation that Mara is still pulling the strings when it comes to Jones. I simply will not believe that Schoen would ignore Daboll wanting to make a change. I literally don’t give a shit what we saw on HK, there was a reason there were no cameras in Mara’s suite.
Exactly.
They gave us what they wanted us to see.Nothing more.
Daboll and Schoen don't want this kid as their QB. Never did IMO.
Its how this franchise has operated for years. Who plays QB for the NY Giants is something that gets discussed by ownership.
The last time someone tried to play games with the starting QB Mara hung the coach and GM out to dry and fired them.
This needs to be addressed by the league. Heaving 3rd and long and QB's throwing up Hail Mary's that result in bullshit PI's, automatic first downs and moving the ball 40/50 yards down the field needs to be addressed by the rules committee. I don't know the answer but it needs to be addressed.
That play altered the course of the game. This team is not and has not been good at rebounding from dagger situations like that and it happened once again.
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-Adoree’ Jackson appeared to be on a pitch count considering he was not with the team until just a couple weeks ago. The 36-yard pass interference on a 3rd-and-8 stop (which led to an eventual touchdown) was a bogus call from a traditionalist perspective, but it was another clear example of where the game is now. In my book, Jackson did everything he could there. Otherwise, his coverage was solid, and he made a quick tackle after a short third-down catch that was a nice play.
This needs to be addressed by the league. Heaving 3rd and long and QB's throwing up Hail Mary's that result in bullshit PI's, automatic first downs and moving the ball 40/50 yards down the field needs to be addressed by the rules committee. I don't know the answer but it needs to be addressed.
That play altered the course of the game. This team is not and has not been good at rebounding from dagger situations like that and it happened once again.
It was an awful awful call. But the league won't do shit about it. They'll say (1) did the call lead to a TD; (2) if so, what's the problem.
Exactly. This was all about locker room psychology. It was about the Giants taking care of a fraud and nickel and diming an elite talent. Using the positional value argument could not have been more tone deaf and more stupid in terms of motivating a team...
Its how this franchise has operated for years. Who plays QB for the NY Giants is something that gets discussed by ownership.
The last time someone tried to play games with the starting QB Mara hung the coach and GM out to dry and fired them.
I get that, any owner does and should have say in what QB is starting, but this is beyond ridiculous. To me, it’s pretty clear Daboll was done with Jones after the tablet throwing incident, and I simply will not believe that it is Schoen who is holding out on making a change.
So if the owner is so hell-bent on his guy being the starter that he is overruling his own personnel guys, THAT IS A BIG FUCKING PROBLEM! Mara did it before with Eli, agreeing to allow McAdoo to bench him, than throwing McAdoo under the bus when the blowback came. And then, even after all that, deciding that Eli was still good enough to build around.
This team will continue to flounder as long as the Mara clan is deeply involved in personnel decisions. We all hoped that Mara would give Schoen free rein, and Hard Knocks was designed to give that impression, but it doesn’t appear to be remotely true.
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They knew Barkley was the better player. KT admitted he should have been paid before Jones. Now Jones is costing them. It's ugly.
Exactly. This was all about locker room psychology. It was about the Giants taking care of a fraud and nickel and diming an elite talent. Using the positional value argument could not have been more tone deaf and more stupid in terms of motivating a team...
Thomas’s quote on the oline last week was clearly directed at the QB.
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They knew Barkley was the better player. KT admitted he should have been paid before Jones. Now Jones is costing them. It's ugly.
Exactly. This was all about locker room psychology. It was about the Giants taking care of a fraud and nickel and diming an elite talent. Using the positional value argument could not have been more tone deaf and more stupid in terms of motivating a team...
The other issue I think gets overlooked is where’s our Jordan Mason? Tank Bigsby? Charbonnet? Nearly every other team in the league has a running back that just steps in fairly cheaply and produces.
I don’t see how you don’t see any evidence for it. It’s circumstantial to be sure, but come on, neither Daboll or Schoen is going to come out and say, “yeah, we wanted to make a change but we’re overruled”.
Daboll’s interaction with Jones after the Seattle pick 6, his eagerness on HK with any QB Schoen brought up, his forced smile when Schoen said yes to Daboll’s “so this is our QB room this year” - all of that tells me Daboll was ready to move on last year. And I simply will not believe if he went to Schoen and pounded the table to make a change, that Schoen wouldn’t allow him to do it.
So if not, who was preventing them? There is only one other guy, and it was the 9ne with no cameras in his office suite.
Thanks for the comments on Adofo-Mensah, Sy. Maybe he and everybody else should be analyzing Will McClay.
Learning something from your reviews makes the mental dumpster diving that is watching this team less miserable.
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-Adoree’ Jackson appeared to be on a pitch count considering he was not with the team until just a couple weeks ago. The 36-yard pass interference on a 3rd-and-8 stop (which led to an eventual touchdown) was a bogus call from a traditionalist perspective, but it was another clear example of where the game is now. In my book, Jackson did everything he could there. Otherwise, his coverage was solid, and he made a quick tackle after a short third-down catch that was a nice play.
This needs to be addressed by the league. Heaving 3rd and long and QB's throwing up Hail Mary's that result in bullshit PI's, automatic first downs and moving the ball 40/50 yards down the field needs to be addressed by the rules committee. I don't know the answer but it needs to be addressed.
That play altered the course of the game. This team is not and has not been good at rebounding from dagger situations like that and it happened once again.
It was an awful awful call. But the league won't do shit about it. They'll say (1) did the call lead to a TD; (2) if so, what's the problem.
Why did Jackson even touch him? the ball was underthrown, should been a pick.
Agreed.
Very encouraging about JMS and Davidson. I thought JMS had at best an average game. What do I know.
Also, the personnel decisions just seemed odd. Phillips was having a great game and only plays 16 plays and Flott coming off injury is playing more and looked out of place. That’s just one example.
On D, the pass rush was non existent yet it seemed like there was no adjustment?
what are your thoughts on tempo of the game? They are down by 2 or more scores yet they are playing like it’s a one score game with runs, taking too much time in the huddle and no quickness or urgency. I think that’s on coaching.
Last, us fans can’t see practice, but I suspect Jones has similar issues yet no other QB got legit 1st team reps. If you were coaching, would you have brought in Lock for an open competition? Just seems like no matter who is coaching this team the game day decisions are very suspect. They start strong but quickly fall into head scratching decisions
Why did Jackson even touch him? the ball was underthrown, should been a pick.
Jackson had no idea where the ball was and ran into the WR's chest when the WR tried to come back for the ball.
A lot like his DPI that lost the Jets game in OT last year.
deja vu - ( New Window )
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The players know when the QB gives them no chance to win.
And they hear it from friends and family. You don’t think Nabers pals aren’t telling him that he isn’t getting the rock because the QB is incompetent?
Schoen's own son told him on HK they need a new qb
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on a historic day for the franchise, no less. Jones isn't Eli by a million miles. We honestly see him bullying the coach into playing Jones? I don't see that, or evidence for it.
I don’t see how you don’t see any evidence for it. It’s circumstantial to be sure, but come on, neither Daboll or Schoen is going to come out and say, “yeah, we wanted to make a change but we’re overruled”.
Daboll’s interaction with Jones after the Seattle pick 6, his eagerness on HK with any QB Schoen brought up, his forced smile when Schoen said yes to Daboll’s “so this is our QB room this year” - all of that tells me Daboll was ready to move on last year. And I simply will not believe if he went to Schoen and pounded the table to make a change, that Schoen wouldn’t allow him to do it.
So if not, who was preventing them? There is only one other guy, and it was the 9ne with no cameras in his office suite.
LOL thanks Sy!-this is gonna be a loooong season.
The defense is going to give up a high completion rates with the zone they run, basically the underneath is open on every play. They will have to get better at closing faster and tackling.
Not as hard on Jones as you considering it was his first game back after injury but it seemed clear he had some panic syndrome so the off target throws are not surprising nor are the misses. He will need to get over it fast.
Some good positives on the new guys. Giants need that.
That miss percentage you are utilizing is interesting. Look forward to seeing more on it.
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Why did Jackson even touch him? the ball was underthrown, should been a pick.
Jackson had no idea where the ball was and ran into the WR's chest when the WR tried to come back for the ball.
A lot like his DPI that lost the Jets game in OT last year. deja vu - ( New Window )
Typical. They should have left him on the couch.
Thanks for the reminder re the Jet game LOL
If anyone still had any questions, here is John Mara just yesterday:
“I’m still glad we gave Daniel that contract.”
No accountability, not for Mara, and certainly not for Jones. There will be for Schoen and Daboll if this season continues to go south.
Yes, I’ll try to find the tweet I saw it on.
✔️
Yes we need a QB, but at some point this staff needs to show they can cultivate and develop and maintain a winning program bad QB or not. And how the fuck are we supposed to buy in if the QB they re-signed turned into the worst starting QB in the NFL...I give up.
It's hard to possess any faith unless this team rips off some wins and sustained good play. It was easy to believe them after 2022 even if you were the most cynical and had no confidence in Jones. At least there was a 18 game sample size. 2022 might as well be 2002. It doesn't matter anymore.
Did you also see this?
Yikes... thanks for catching that.
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-Adoree’ Jackson appeared to be on a pitch count considering he was not with the team until just a couple weeks ago. The 36-yard pass interference on a 3rd-and-8 stop (which led to an eventual touchdown) was a bogus call from a traditionalist perspective, but it was another clear example of where the game is now. In my book, Jackson did everything he could there. Otherwise, his coverage was solid, and he made a quick tackle after a short third-down catch that was a nice play.
This needs to be addressed by the league. Heaving 3rd and long and QB's throwing up Hail Mary's that result in bullshit PI's, automatic first downs and moving the ball 40/50 yards down the field needs to be addressed by the rules committee. I don't know the answer but it needs to be addressed.
That play altered the course of the game. This team is not and has not been good at rebounding from dagger situations like that and it happened once again.
It was an awful awful call. But the league won't do shit about it. They'll say (1) did the call lead to a TD; (2) if so, what's the problem.
Watched alot of CFL this summer and they actually have a PI Challenge
If anyone still had any questions, here is John Mara just yesterday:
“I’m still glad we gave Daniel that contract.”
No accountability, not for Mara, and certainly not for Jones. There will be for Schoen and Daboll if this season continues to go south.
False alarm. The Mara quote is from August 1.
There were/are tweets since yesterday citing it, but the quote is from August 1.
It's on Raanan's twitter from that date, among other places.
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If anyone still had any questions, here is John Mara just yesterday:
“I’m still glad we gave Daniel that contract.”
No accountability, not for Mara, and certainly not for Jones. There will be for Schoen and Daboll if this season continues to go south.
False alarm. The Mara quote is from August 1.
There were/are tweets since yesterday citing it, but the quote is from August 1.
It's on Raanan's twitter from that date, among other places.
Thanks for that, my mistake.
goats of the game.
goats had to be a challenge because there had to be at least a dozen options.
I did not watch HK. The HC and GM could be gone because there are too many questions and Mara may not trust them chosing the next QB. Seen this show in the 70’s. As a longtime fan (1956) I don’t get as excited as some. Disappointed yes.
Because the league wants more points and spotting the ball at the foul almost always leads to more points.
He got told to calm down after last year.
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-Adoree’ Jackson appeared to be on a pitch count considering he was not with the team until just a couple weeks ago. The 36-yard pass interference on a 3rd-and-8 stop (which led to an eventual touchdown) was a bogus call from a traditionalist perspective, but it was another clear example of where the game is now. In my book, Jackson did everything he could there. Otherwise, his coverage was solid, and he made a quick tackle after a short third-down catch that was a nice play.
This needs to be addressed by the league. Heaving 3rd and long and QB's throwing up Hail Mary's that result in bullshit PI's, automatic first downs and moving the ball 40/50 yards down the field needs to be addressed by the rules committee. I don't know the answer but it needs to be addressed.
That play altered the course of the game. This team is not and has not been good at rebounding from dagger situations like that and it happened once again.
It was an awful awful call. But the league won't do shit about it. They'll say (1) did the call lead to a TD; (2) if so, what's the problem.
If Jackson doesn't make such a lame attempt at trying to make it look like he got his head around as he was lunging toward the receiver who beat him, that call likely doesn't get made. His hilariously lunge and turn made it look like interference live. It wasn't till I saw the replay that I could tell what really happened. He should have just put both hands up in the air and not try to turn.
If Jackson doesn't make such a lame attempt at trying to make it look like he got his head around as he was lunging toward the receiver who beat him, that call likely doesn't get made. His hilariously lunge and turn made it look like interference live. It wasn't till I saw the replay that I could tell what really happened. He should have just put both hands up in the air and not try to turn.
Except that is what the league said is legal. If the DB turns and looks for the ball then it is not interference if there is contact. And what gives Jefferson the right to jump over and into Jackson who has every right to the ball in the air. And the ball was underthrown, giving Jackson an even greater right to the ball as he was closer to it.
The refs going to call whatever they want anyway and it almost always goes in favor of the WR
Cant win. Everone wanted him not to yell and scream last year, now he's controlling it and it still gets questioned, lol.
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If Jackson doesn't make such a lame attempt at trying to make it look like he got his head around as he was lunging toward the receiver who beat him, that call likely doesn't get made. His hilariously lunge and turn made it look like interference live. It wasn't till I saw the replay that I could tell what really happened. He should have just put both hands up in the air and not try to turn.
Except that is what the league said is legal. If the DB turns and looks for the ball then it is not interference if there is contact. And what gives Jefferson the right to jump over and into Jackson who has every right to the ball in the air. And the ball was underthrown, giving Jackson an even greater right to the ball as he was closer to it.
The refs going to call whatever they want anyway and it almost always goes in favor of the WR
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
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When he is sitting in the middle of a shit-storm?
Resigned, alas, to his fate. ;0)
Guaranteed contracts for HCs doesn't suck either.
Daboll - why are we still taking delay of game penalties?! get the SHIT play in to your Shit QB so he can make a shit throw to the flats.
Daboll take a shot in the endzone after the defense gets you the ball on the opponents 20!
Daboll - why did you hire Shane Bowen? I'm extremely worried about a bend but dont break defense that has one good DL and a suspect secondary not to mention an offense that cant score.
Bowen why do you take Phillips out after causing a fumble and making a hell of a tackle to force a 4th and 2 from the goal line?
Bowen move on from McCloud after he cant take the right angle or set the edge.
Thats only in the first half. Just horrible to watch.
Just a few words about your very last statement about how Week One can lead to some odd outcomes and is not very predictive of how seasons actually unfold. I've seen this phenomenon enough times over 60 years to recognize the veracity of the statement.
But I have to make an exception with the 2024 New York Giants. Their listless game against Minny is a simple reflection of a debased franchise that lost its way years ago and doesn't have a clue how to steady the ship. There are a lot more embarrassing losses for the Giants in 2024 with numerous blowouts on the horizon.
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and Schoen kept saying it was only about the first few games when they weren't sure Jones would be back healthy yet. Both guys have been on board with Jones since they signed him to that ridiculous contract and blaming Mara is weak when he obviously also wanted #26 to stick around but let Schoen and Daboll make that call.
If anyone still had any questions, here is John Mara just yesterday:
“I’m still glad we gave Daniel that contract.”
No accountability, not for Mara, and certainly not for Jones. There will be for Schoen and Daboll if this season continues to go south.
That was back in May.
Just a few words about your very last statement about how Week One can lead to some odd outcomes and is not very predictive of how seasons actually unfold. I've seen this phenomenon enough times over 60 years to recognize the veracity of the statement.
But I have to make an exception with the 2024 New York Giants. Their listless game against Minny is a simple reflection of a debased franchise that lost its way years ago and doesn't have a clue how to steady the ship. There are a lot more embarrassing losses for the Giants in 2024 with numerous blowouts on the horizon.
I won't argue against that
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If Jackson doesn't make such a lame attempt at trying to make it look like he got his head around as he was lunging toward the receiver who beat him, that call likely doesn't get made. His hilariously lunge and turn made it look like interference live. It wasn't till I saw the replay that I could tell what really happened. He should have just put both hands up in the air and not try to turn.
Except that is what the league said is legal. If the DB turns and looks for the ball then it is not interference if there is contact. And what gives Jefferson the right to jump over and into Jackson who has every right to the ball in the air. And the ball was underthrown, giving Jackson an even greater right to the ball as he was closer to it.
The refs going to call whatever they want anyway and it almost always goes in favor of the WR
The problems is he didn't get turn. He just failed in a way to try to make it look like he had his head turned. He had no idea where the ball was. He only has a right to the ball if he's making a play for it. He never did. He looked like an UDFA rookie in preseason on that play.
I am surprised you didn’t have more to say about the HC, on several levels from play calling to personnel choices, to schemes and adjustments (or lack there of).
To me, he was as much a problem as Jones was.
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In comment 16604678 k2tampa said:
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If Jackson doesn't make such a lame attempt at trying to make it look like he got his head around as he was lunging toward the receiver who beat him, that call likely doesn't get made. His hilariously lunge and turn made it look like interference live. It wasn't till I saw the replay that I could tell what really happened. He should have just put both hands up in the air and not try to turn.
Except that is what the league said is legal. If the DB turns and looks for the ball then it is not interference if there is contact. And what gives Jefferson the right to jump over and into Jackson who has every right to the ball in the air. And the ball was underthrown, giving Jackson an even greater right to the ball as he was closer to it.
The refs going to call whatever they want anyway and it almost always goes in favor of the WR
The problems is he didn't get turn. He just failed in a way to try to make it look like he had his head turned. He had no idea where the ball was. He only has a right to the ball if he's making a play for it. He never did. He looked like an UDFA rookie in preseason on that play.
Look again. He was turned and Jefferson came over Jackson's shoulder and back. So how was he not turned. I agree it didn't look like he saw the ball. But that does not matter, he only needs to look back for the ball. It does not say he needs to see it.
But moot point, it was called.
Dale Murphy had a related problem as a catcher. He could throw the ball back to the pitcher, but not accurately. This was the reason the Braves moved him to the outfield.
Daboll - why are we still taking delay of game penalties?! get the SHIT play in to your Shit QB so he can make a shit throw to the flats.
Daboll take a shot in the endzone after the defense gets you the ball on the opponents 20!
Daboll - why did you hire Shane Bowen? I'm extremely worried about a bend but dont break defense that has one good DL and a suspect secondary not to mention an offense that cant score.
Bowen why do you take Phillips out after causing a fumble and making a hell of a tackle to force a 4th and 2 from the goal line?
Bowen move on from McCloud after he cant take the right angle or set the edge.
Thats only in the first half. Just horrible to watch.
Not physically - when he lets it rip he looks the same but I think the mental block and hesitation have made things look rocky.
I have not been one to constantly bash Jones, it's boring, but this quote "but Jones failed to pull the trigger. I expect that to change in Week Two." puzzles me. Can you please elaborate on why you think it will be different? It's his 6th year. Even on 3rd down before the 1st FG, he rolled out with all receivers seemingly covered, we all see the S leave his man to chase Jones, and rather than float it over him for a sure TD, he keeps his head down and runs. He's making Dave Brown look good.
I think he knows he can't figure out the golf swing on the fly. It didn't work. He is up against the wall and he will to let it rip in week 2. If not - his time may be over.
I think he knows he can't figure out the golf swing on the fly. It didn't work. He is up against the wall and he will to let it rip in week 2. If not - his time may be over.
Week 2 is an interesting collision.
Jones has owned Washington. But Quinn has owned Jones as the DC in Dallas.
We'll see what Quinn can do with a less talented cast...
This is on Daboll and the coaches!!!!
Simply put, if Jones doesn't have a big game vs the Commanders and we lose because he misfires or throws bad interceptions again, the season is lost as the next six games are brutal.
If we start 0 - 2, there will be tremendous pressure to bench Jones and essentially end the Daboll regime but don't fall for it folks. Jones is better then Lock right now, IMHO, despite his flaws. But if we lose to Dallas as well then you have no choice but to go to Lock.
An 0 - 3 start would signal firings and a time for a complete rehaul of this team. Daboll and Schoen inherited Jones, yes, but they also paid him cause they didn't keep the 5th year option on him due to his injuries. Just bad luck or bad evaluations or both?
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...Mackey Sasser is the catcher that couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher.
Dale Murphy had a related problem as a catcher. He could throw the ball back to the pitcher, but not accurately. This was the reason the Braves moved him to the outfield.
World Darts Champion Eric Bristow, aka "The Crafty Cockney" succumbed to dartitis, where he was unable to let go of his darts properly. It fairly ruined his game.
There's probably a ten pin bowler out there somewhere with the same problem.
If anyone still had any questions, here is John Mara just yesterday:
“I’m still glad we gave Daniel that contract.”
No accountability, not for Mara, and certainly not for Jones. There will be for Schoen and Daboll if this season continues to go south.
That was back in May.
It was on August 1, as I stated earlier in the thread.
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In comment 16604129 sb from NYT Forum said:
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...Mackey Sasser is the catcher that couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher.
Dale Murphy had a related problem as a catcher. He could throw the ball back to the pitcher, but not accurately. This was the reason the Braves moved him to the outfield.
World Darts Champion Eric Bristow, aka "The Crafty Cockney" succumbed to dartitis, where he was unable to let go of his darts properly. It fairly ruined his game.
There's probably a ten pin bowler out there somewhere with the same problem.
Ian Baker-Finch is a golfer who won the 1991 British Open. By the mid '90s, he had completely lost the ability to compete on the tour, retiring from professional golf after shooting a 92 in the first round of the 1997 British Open. He shanked and hooked shots like a weekend duffer.
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time in preseason. The quality of SEP games today are worse than the AUG games in the 80s.
I have not been one to constantly bash Jones, it's boring, but this quote "but Jones failed to pull the trigger. I expect that to change in Week Two." puzzles me. Can you please elaborate on why you think it will be different? It's his 6th year. Even on 3rd down before the 1st FG, he rolled out with all receivers seemingly covered, we all see the S leave his man to chase Jones, and rather than float it over him for a sure TD, he keeps his head down and runs. He's making Dave Brown look good.
I think he knows he can't figure out the golf swing on the fly. It didn't work. He is up against the wall and he will to let it rip in week 2. If not - his time may be over.
Jack Nicklaus often describes his mental process of fixing his golf swing...mid shot...in some cases he is talking about a particular shot on a particular hole-40 years earlier....unreal
DJ got thrown to the lions too quickly and probably will never recover.
This is on Daboll and the coaches!!!!
Simply put, if Jones doesn't have a big game vs the Commanders and we lose because he misfires or throws bad interceptions again, the season is lost as the next six games are brutal.
If we start 0 - 2, there will be tremendous pressure to bench Jones and essentially end the Daboll regime but don't fall for it folks. Jones is better then Lock right now, IMHO, despite his flaws. But if we lose to Dallas as well then you have no choice but to go to Lock.
An 0 - 3 start would signal firings and a time for a complete rehaul of this team. Daboll and Schoen inherited Jones, yes, but they also paid him cause they didn't keep the 5th year option on him due to his injuries. Just bad luck or bad evaluations or both?
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time in preseason. The quality of SEP games today are worse than the AUG games in the 80s.
I have not been one to constantly bash Jones, it's boring, but this quote "but Jones failed to pull the trigger. I expect that to change in Week Two." puzzles me. Can you please elaborate on why you think it will be different? It's his 6th year. Even on 3rd down before the 1st FG, he rolled out with all receivers seemingly covered, we all see the S leave his man to chase Jones, and rather than float it over him for a sure TD, he keeps his head down and runs. He's making Dave Brown look good.
I think he knows he can't figure out the golf swing on the fly. It didn't work. He is up against the wall and he will to let it rip in week 2. If not - his time may be over.
Gotcha. Thanks.
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When he is sitting in the middle of a shit-storm?
He got told to calm down after last year.
Just like McAdoo got told to look more presentable so he slicked his hair back.
The Giants are concerned with all the wrong things. Square peg in round hole syndrome.
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In comment 16604160 Section331 said:
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In comment 16604053 Chris684 said:
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should have been the end of Jones. Daboll's reaction to his poor play that night said it all. Most of us pointed to that moment (when Daboll tossed the tablet) all offseason and we can never unsee it.
It is beyond stunning they came back to him this year. I've never seen anything like this.
This and the grim smile he gave in HK when he asked if this was the QB room they are going with tell me the decision to play Jones isn’t his. Even if you don’t think he’s an effective HC, he’s been around the league for a long time, he knows a good QB when he sees one, and when he doesn’t.
If it had been up to him, I think he would have benched Jones after that pick 6 v Seattle. It was vintage Daniel, the play worked to perfection, setting up Waller to be open in the back of the EZ, but Jones was late, hesitated, and then made a panicked throw outside. The Jones error can’t end soon enough.
When asked about the offense a giants assistant I ran into said “we’re going to have to be creative to score points”.
The coaches know he isn’t it, but I don’t think it’s their call.
Wow, that’s depressing. I also think it’s confirmation that Mara is still pulling the strings when it comes to Jones. I simply will not believe that Schoen would ignore Daboll wanting to make a change. I literally don’t give a shit what we saw on HK, there was a reason there were no cameras in Mara’s suite.
I am in this camp.
Its how this franchise has operated for years. Who plays QB for the NY Giants is something that gets discussed by ownership.
The last time someone tried to play games with the starting QB Mara hung the coach and GM out to dry and fired them.
+1
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on a historic day for the franchise, no less. Jones isn't Eli by a million miles. We honestly see him bullying the coach into playing Jones? I don't see that, or evidence for it.
I don’t see how you don’t see any evidence for it. It’s circumstantial to be sure, but come on, neither Daboll or Schoen is going to come out and say, “yeah, we wanted to make a change but we’re overruled”.
Daboll’s interaction with Jones after the Seattle pick 6, his eagerness on HK with any QB Schoen brought up, his forced smile when Schoen said yes to Daboll’s “so this is our QB room this year” - all of that tells me Daboll was ready to move on last year. And I simply will not believe if he went to Schoen and pounded the table to make a change, that Schoen wouldn’t allow him to do it.
So if not, who was preventing them? There is only one other guy, and it was the 9ne with no cameras in his office suite.
The puppet master.
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To believe that pulling the plug on Jones is a decision that has to be brought to Mara for approval.
Its how this franchise has operated for years. Who plays QB for the NY Giants is something that gets discussed by ownership.
The last time someone tried to play games with the starting QB Mara hung the coach and GM out to dry and fired them.
I get that, any owner does and should have say in what QB is starting, but this is beyond ridiculous. To me, it’s pretty clear Daboll was done with Jones after the tablet throwing incident, and I simply will not believe that it is Schoen who is holding out on making a change.
So if the owner is so hell-bent on his guy being the starter that he is overruling his own personnel guys, THAT IS A BIG FUCKING PROBLEM! Mara did it before with Eli, agreeing to allow McAdoo to bench him, than throwing McAdoo under the bus when the blowback came. And then, even after all that, deciding that Eli was still good enough to build around.
This team will continue to flounder as long as the Mara clan is deeply involved in personnel decisions. We all hoped that Mara would give Schoen free rein, and Hard Knocks was designed to give that impression, but it doesn’t appear to be remotely true.
Your posts are on point.
Look at the history... This ownership has showed their hand and pattern of behavior when before there was not enough history of their actions so they could hide behind the fall guys they eloquently set up and allow the fans to guillotine said falls guys all the while keeping the fanbase either confused or falsely satiated... Except now it's become obvious what is going on if you simply ask yourself what consistent factor (ownership) and behavior remains despite the revolving door of GM's and coaches?