Daniel Jones: When would you have pulled the plug?

would not have picked him, and he's taken six years of joy out of fandom. Was rooting for them to acquire a QB in 2020, 2021, 2022, etc. Over it. So over it. Amateurs, all of them.

In comment 16605862 JonC said:

Quote:

would not have picked him, and he's taken six years of joy out of fandom. Was rooting for them to acquire a QB in 2020, 2021, 2022, etc. Over it. So over it. Amateurs, all of them.

I also never had any worry, no other team would come in and swoop him up, if the Giants did decide to move on early.

What I know now, I would have not resigned him. I originally was ok with the signing, it was worth the risk considering how he played in 22. My issue is we didn’t go after the QB this year.

I would have drafted JJ this year and would have had him sit the year no matter what. Than we could of drafted a WR at the top of the draft next year when you took over

this year was the first year i thought they were in a good position to draft that player and should have done so.

With Gettleman at the absolute latest

Many here said not to throw the baby out with the bathwater but there was no baby

but assuming I was stuck with that decision, I would have moved him when Schoen and Daboll came in. I don't know what I would have necessarily done at QB instead, but I was done with him by then.

In comment 16605862 JonC said:

Quote:

would not have picked him, and he's taken six years of joy out of fandom. Was rooting for them to acquire a QB in 2020, 2021, 2022, etc. Over it. So over it. Amateurs, all of them.

This ^

In comment 16605862 JonC said:

Quote:

would not have picked him, and he's taken six years of joy out of fandom. Was rooting for them to acquire a QB in 2020, 2021, 2022, etc. Over it. So over it. Amateurs, all of them.

Same. I watched a fair bit of him at Duke and never thought he was anything special. When he started getting talked up as a first-round pick, I was perplexed. When people suggested the Giants might draft him, I was annoyed. When they actually drafted him sixth overall, I was furious. I was willing to give him more time when he looked good at times as a rookie but, after the next two lousy seasons, I was done with him for good.

The giants should of picked up Jones 5th year option and gave him a 2 year tryout with daboll. Mara said we did everything possible to screw up this kid. We'll they should of given him 2 years which would of ended last off season and the giants could of walked away. Now they are on thr hook for about 65 million including this year and the dead cap hit next year.

I was never in favor of giving him a large/long term deal. I did not think it was good enough to earn anything. I thought it was good enough to bring him back on the cheap in hopes that it was the start of something.

I don't care that that deal is now dwarfed and brings him to the middle of the pack. I care that that deal, this season in particular, is a cap killer, and it was more than double his worth.

After the 2021 season. The thing that killed us was that was an QB draft year.

It was becoming clear at the end of 2019 he wasn't good. 2020 cemented it.

One thing I'll add is we KNOW the Giants loved Justin Herbert. I'm certain they had a higher grade on him than Jones. Given that, they should have drafted Herbert and traded Jones that off-season.

Philosophically there needs to be a mindset in place where it is always ok to upgrade at QB. I don't care if the starter was recently drafted or recently given a big contract.

The Giants don't just need to move on from Jones; they need to move on from full bloom love at QB.

.

he showed enough his rookie year to think he could be the answer. He needed to cut down on his TO’s but most of those were fumbles, and I thought that would be easier to clean up than INT’s would.

Midway through his 2nd season I saw enough to say I’d seen enough.

Tampa Bay. If you look at the final numbers Jones had some decent overall numbers in a close loss, but the real story was how many poor things he did during the game. Particularly around slow processing, throwing late downfield and continually putting the ball in harms way. He got picked off several times in that game (and a lot during first half of the season) and finished the game off by missing an easy throw for a 2-point conversion that would have tied the game.

After that game, the coaches didn't allow him to throw downfield any longer. And it worked because his interceptions went way down, but so did his passing touchdowns and overall offensive scoring.

And this trend continues through to current day. He is just a bad passing QB that could never develop.

In comment 16605888 ThomasG said:

Quote:

Tampa Bay. If you look at the final numbers Jones had some decent overall numbers in a close loss, but the real story was how many poor things he did during the game. Particularly around slow processing, throwing late downfield and continually putting the ball in harms way. He got picked off several times in that game (and a lot during first half of the season) and finished the game off by missing an easy throw for a 2-point conversion that would have tied the game. After that game, the coaches didn't allow him to throw downfield any longer. And it worked because his interceptions went way down, but so did his passing touchdowns and overall offensive scoring. And this trend continues through to current day. He is just a bad passing QB that could never develop.

Yup

this thread about Matthew Stafford is a gem to read years later
Stafford and Lions to part ways - ( New Window )

In comment 16605893 santacruzom said:

Quote:

this thread about Matthew Stafford is a gem to read years later Stafford and Lions to part ways - ( New Window )

Wow.

those who would never have wasted a pick drafting him.

The bold move would have been parting ways after his rookie year and drafting Herbert. But that would have been a ground-breaking move - giving up on a QB after his rookie year - and required real vision.

Unfortunately, Gettleman was not going to give him on his guy that early and Mara would never have signed on his Eli, Jr.

So, considering these variables, I would have made the move in 2021 for Fields. And tried to move Jones in a trade.

Not to pick up his 5th year option he shouldn't have played another game. At that point we should have brought someone else in and moved forward with them. So after 2021.

This is assuming that I don't have the option to go back in time and not draft him at all.

All more sensible than what we've done:

1. After the new GM/coach decided not to pick up his fifth-year option. You obviously scouted and didn't view him as worth $20M QB (or whatever the going rate was at the time).

2. When you couldn't sign him to a more reasonable contract, and/or sign Barkley long-term (if that was indeed the plan--sign Barkley long-term, franchise Daniel one more year to hedge your bets).

3. At any point last year when it became excruciatingly clear he was not a franchise QB--the first few games, when a journeyman backup and an undrafted QB with no real reps thoroughly outplayed him. Even if you're stuck a year with the contract, and cannot unload him, sign someone else and put him on ice for a year to avoid triggering the injury guarantee.

4. Today. Right now. Stop wasting another second on this lost investment. Use the rest of the season to assess DeVito and see what you have.

#1 and #2 are consistent with actions at the time; the real actions are contradictory.

#3-4 is cutting your losses and just doing the smart thing when the evidence is so obvious.

(I'm with the crew that wouldn't have drafted him, but the OP seems to premise the question on pulling the plug, which means we had him in the first place.)

drafted Herbert when we had the opportunity. That was how the Cardinals moved on from Rosen and how we should have moved on from Jones.

.

In comment 16605906 Chris in LA said:

Quote:

3. At any point last year when it became excruciatingly clear he was not a franchise QB--the first few games, when a journeyman backup and an undrafted QB with no real reps thoroughly outplayed him. Even if you're stuck a year with the contract, and cannot unload him, sign someone else and put him on ice for a year to avoid triggering the injury guarantee.

I still can't get over this. Tommy DeVito, who isn't good, came in and made more plays as a UDFA than Jones has since 2019. How does that happening not act as a slap in the face of the organization, a screaming flashing warning light telling you "THIS GUY SUCKS!"?

In comment 16605909 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

.

When he wins 10+ for the Steelers and gets them to the AFC CG, you can kiss my arse. ;)

LOL -- most of us have the occasional or more frequent silly take. But I can see why one would quit the site after being so committed to stupidity.

In comment 16605893 santacruzom said:

Quote:

this thread about Matthew Stafford is a gem to read years later Stafford and Lions to part ways - ( New Window )

This is what makes BBI a treasure. There is no hiding from the historical record. It is a time capsule. Terps, Dunk, BW and Mike from Ohio preaching common sense...

In comment 16605917 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 16605906 Chris in LA said: Quote: 3. At any point last year when it became excruciatingly clear he was not a franchise QB--the first few games, when a journeyman backup and an undrafted QB with no real reps thoroughly outplayed him. Even if you're stuck a year with the contract, and cannot unload him, sign someone else and put him on ice for a year to avoid triggering the injury guarantee. I still can't get over this. Tommy DeVito, who isn't good, came in and made more plays as a UDFA than Jones has since 2019. How does that happening not act as a slap in the face of the organization, a screaming flashing warning light telling you "THIS GUY SUCKS!"?

I can answer this one, the sycophants were all claiming that TD played against the easy teams and Jones got the good ones. Even if true, it’s not a good look when an UDFA QB with no practice reps outplays your $40M starter.

If they'd drafted a QB then they'd be in a much better place today. They either would have hit with Allen or Jackson (though I'm guessing Jackson want even on their board as a QB) or missed with Darnold/Rosen; look at the four teams that picked those QBs - all four are in a better place at QB than the Giants are.

It's ok to draft a QB and miss. It's not ok to pretend a shitty QB is good. They MUST remember that when they take the next QB. 2 years is the leash. That's it.

In comment 16605903 Biteymax22 said:

Quote:

Not to pick up his 5th year option he shouldn't have played another game. At that point we should have brought someone else in and moved forward with them. So after 2021. This is assuming that I don't have the option to go back in time and not draft him at all.

This.

In comment 16605893 santacruzom said:

Quote:

this thread about Matthew Stafford is a gem to read years later Stafford and Lions to part ways - ( New Window )

Tough scene here.
Aged like milk in the hot sun - ( New Window )

revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right?

In comment 16605919 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16605909 Greg from LI said: Quote: . When he wins 10+ for the Steelers and gets them to the AFC CG, you can kiss my arse. ;)

bw, you know I love ya, but you force me to bring up the distant past: remember when you thought Chris Redman was going to be an NFL star? 😆

You ever hear from Mark S anymore? I can only imagine the things he has to say about Jones.

1) would have never drafted him in 2019

2) 2020 when Herbert was available

3) after they declined the 5th year option. They declined it for a reason but then paid him off of a mediocre year. Made zero sense.

In comment 16605937 4xchamps said:

Quote:

revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right?

For five years, I've been told I'm an idiot who doesn't know anything. And that's probably more true than not when it comes to football, but....yeah, I and others had Jones pegged all along. You think I'm happy that we were right? Hell fuck no. But you guys always got the cause and effect mixed up here. We all wanted Jones gone not because we wanted to be vindicated, but because we wanted the Giants to win and we were confident that they wouldn't do that with Jones at QB.

I was mostly checked out of that season because of the weird Covid atmosphere and total lack of excitement over the roster, so it was a lot of box score checking. It became clear, however, looking at the box scores and checking out threads here that he wasn't making any progress from season 1 to season 2, which is usually a giant red flag for any QB with rare exceptions like Drew Brees.

In comment 16605939 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

bw, you know I love ya, but you force me to bring up the distant past: remember when you thought Chris Redman was going to be an NFL star? 😆 You ever hear from Mark S anymore? I can only imagine the things he has to say about Jones.

Star? I had Redman in Canton. ;)

I connect with Mark S every so often, yes. I'm glad you brought him up because I've been meaning to reach back out.

In comment 16605937 4xchamps said:

Quote:

revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right?

You seem quite unhappy participating in this community.

In comment 16605937 4xchamps said:

Quote:

revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right?

Do you have something better to do?

Maybe you can start a thread on what we should look for in the big upcoming divisional game with WFT. That should get plenty of hits for you to discuss.

but I was not on board with DJ once the FA conversation started in 2022. I didn't think he was bad but he wasn't a franchise QB and no that Minnesota game didn't change that. The eagles game did solidify it though. Did I think he was a bad QB? No.. But he wasn't a 40M/year QB. And thats when I was done with him.

In comment 16605956 christian said:

Quote:

In comment 16605937 4xchamps said: Quote: revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right? You seem quite unhappy participating in this community.

Our favorite poster makes a lot of appearances in that Stafford thread - our Fatfriend in Charlotte.

Needless to say, unfortunately, he was wrong on Stafford.

but after the the first neck injury I thought he should retire. How long did Peyton Manning play after his neck injury? He wasn't the same afterwards but he started from a much higher skill level than DJ.

checked out on him after 2021, I kept thinking it was the coaching and lack of talent around him holding him back until then. I figured 2022 he'd be a stop-gap as the team would do poorly enough to get someone else in 2023. Then 2022 happened, "Okay, I guess Daboll figured something out with him and they can ride him out for the next couple of seasons and while they develop someone on the bench."

2023 was done again. After passing on the available QBs "Well, they're stuck with them because of the contract, with at least an average line and Nabers/Wan'dale he should be able to at least do the minimum to get them into next season." It's fan abuse at this point.

I told friends that a Minshew or similar caliber back-up QB would be pointless to sign because it'd wouldn't change the win column. Probably not, but at least they'd be able to get the ball out and let the young players on offense develop..

In comment 16605965 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16605956 christian said: Quote: In comment 16605937 4xchamps said: Quote: revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right? You seem quite unhappy participating in this community. Our favorite poster makes a lot of appearances in that Stafford thread - our Fatfriend in Charlotte. Needless to say, unfortunately, he was wrong on Stafford.

He was like the Michael Jordan of being loud and wrong on threads. Miss it.

but I was on record as willing to take a chance on other QBs in that same draft who haven't panned out, so I can't claim victory on that one.

In fairness, and I said it before the game was played and I haven't budged an inch, the Seattle game last year was his last opportunity. I thought we could have finally had something with him after 2022 and it was alarming how fast, dramatic and obvious his regression back to a crappy player was early last season. I just thought if he was the QB we needed he would have shown out in that Seattle game against a team that was not great. That performance was so pitiful and Daboll compounded it with a completely organic reaction that was so telling.

In short, week 6 last year. I haven't given him another thought as a decent QB in this league since. I thought the Giants agreed....little did I know.

In comment 16605862 JonC said:

Quote:

would not have picked him, and he's taken six years of joy out of fandom. Was rooting for them to acquire a QB in 2020, 2021, 2022, etc. Over it. So over it. Amateurs, all of them.

This, I never would have picked him, nor Barkley. What a F'n disaster.

In comment 16605945 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 16605937 4xchamps said: Quote: revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right? For five years, I've been told I'm an idiot who doesn't know anything. And that's probably more true than not when it comes to football, but....yeah, I and others had Jones pegged all along. You think I'm happy that we were right? Hell fuck no. But you guys always got the cause and effect mixed up here. We all wanted Jones gone not because we wanted to be vindicated, but because we wanted the Giants to win and we were confident that they wouldn't do that with Jones at QB.

A Virginia kinda confirms that

JK

In comment 16605922 christian said:

Quote:

LOL -- most of us have the occasional or more frequent silly take. But I can see why one would quit the site after being so committed to stupidity.

Oh he’s still reading

Against Wake Forest, yeah, but I'll take whatever football happiness I can get at this point.

Between the Giants and UVA, I'm not sure why I even watch football anymore.

In comment 16605937 4xchamps said:

Quote:

revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right?

Except it wasn't revisionist history. A bunch of amateurs got it right and the brass blew an easy one.

whom would you have replaced him with..

Kenny Pickett
Baker Mayfield
Herbert
Fields
Willis
Darnold

et al. That's where I got stuck with this in multiple years.

In comment 16606000 RAIN said:

Quote:

whom would you have replaced him with.. Kenny Pickett Baker Mayfield Herbert Fields Willis Darnold et al. That's where I got stuck with this in multiple years.

After 2021, I would have gladly dumped Jones for Mayfield. I believe I said exactly that at the time.

a perfect chance at a clean break after 2022 with no financial ramifications.

It would have taken balls to do after a playoff season, but there is always a way to get something done and they would have been vindicated by Jones' poor play (or backup status) elsewhere.

Daboll and Schoen had the goodwill to do just about anything they wanted at that time and the fans would have listened. The team overall blew it and now nobody trusts this franchise especially since they paid and keep trotting Jones out there. Irony.

Herbert in 2020. I was banging the table for them to do it, and heard DG loved him. Therein lies a big part of the problem in forcing a crucial draft pick.

In comment 16606000 RAIN said:

Quote:

whom would you have replaced him with.. Kenny Pickett Baker Mayfield Herbert Fields Willis Darnold et al. That's where I got stuck with this in multiple years.

Fear of missing can't keep the team from trying to move on from a known poor player.

I've said it a million times; the Giants should be drafting a QB at some point in the draft every single year. Every. Single. Year.

In comment 16606000 RAIN said:

Quote:

whom would you have replaced him with.. Kenny Pickett Baker Mayfield Herbert Fields Willis Darnold et al. That's where I got stuck with this in multiple years.

My entire point of view was based on the idea that, right or wrong, Eli was the quarterback through 2019. So there was absolutely zero point to drafting a quarterback in 2019 if you weren't going to start him right away. And if you were going to take a flyer on DJ, the later second round was the earliest point to do so.

So drafting Josh Allen (edge) was a no brainer at six in 2019. And then Justin Herbert was a no brainer in 2020. Add Micah Parsons as the no brainer in 2021, and this franchise would be an unequivocal Super Bowl contender today. And none of this is rocket science. It was simply the best player available at the moment their draft card was due in the first round of each of those three drafts. A monkey with a Mel Kiper draft guide could have done a better job than Gettleman and the vaunted scouting department of this franchise.

And this is not hind sight. It is not revisionist history. It was well established on this forum at the time of each of those drafts by plenty of folks, including many on this very thread.

In comment 16606011 The Mike said:

Quote:

In comment 16606000 RAIN said: Quote: whom would you have replaced him with.. Kenny Pickett Baker Mayfield Herbert Fields Willis Darnold et al. That's where I got stuck with this in multiple years. My entire point of view was based on the idea that, right or wrong, Eli was the quarterback through 2019. So there was absolutely zero point to drafting a quarterback in 2019 if you weren't going to start him right away. And if you were going to take a flyer on DJ, the later second round was the earliest point to do so. So drafting Josh Allen (edge) was a no brainer at six in 2019. And then Justin Herbert was a no brainer in 2020. Add Micah Parsons as the no brainer in 2021, and this franchise would be an unequivocal Super Bowl contender today. And none of this is rocket science. It was simply the best player available at the moment their draft card was due in the first round of each of those three drafts. A monkey with a Mel Kiper draft guide could have done a better job than Gettleman and the vaunted scouting department of this franchise. And this is not hind sight. It is not revisionist history. It was well established on this forum at the time of each of those drafts by plenty of folks, including many on this very thread.

Yup

In comment 16606006 GiantTuff1 said:

Quote:

a perfect chance at a clean break after 2022 with no financial ramifications. It would have taken balls to do after a playoff season, but there is always a way to get something done and they would have been vindicated by Jones' poor play (or backup status) elsewhere. Daboll and Schoen had the goodwill to do just about anything they wanted at that time and the fans would have listened. The team overall blew it and now nobody trusts this franchise especially since they paid and keep trotting Jones out there. Irony.

The fan reaction if the season goes where it’s headed is going to be 1000x worse than the backlash for letting Jones walk after the playoff year and possibly tanking.

And the Giants should have moved on at that point to drafting a new QB (Mac Jones or Justin Fields) or signing a veteran FA of significance and drafting a mid-to-late rd QB and begin the “rebuild” process by moving on from major guys like Saquon

Its really impossible to believe that Jones made it through the 2021 season where he started 1-5 with 4 Tds to 4 ints and proceeded to get a season ending neck injury and an unrelated neck surgery in offseason and emerge from it without some form of serious competition arriving in FA or the draft

He was 9-17 as starter with 21 TDs to 17 ints over last 2 seasons over 26 games and was completely unchallenged and unquestioned as starter

Geno Smith, Carr and the other middling qb's who were free agents at that time. Jones wasn't worth any more than those guys. If he didn't want to sign for something in that neighborhood or less, it's on the phone to Mayfield, Trubisky, Minshew, Dobbs etc, and spend the money elsewhere on the team. If Jones walked, he walked; he just wasn't that good.

In comment 16606006 GiantTuff1 said:

Quote:

a perfect chance at a clean break after 2022 with no financial ramifications. It would have taken balls to do after a playoff season, but there is always a way to get something done and they would have been vindicated by Jones' poor play (or backup status) elsewhere. Daboll and Schoen had the goodwill to do just about anything they wanted at that time and the fans would have listened. The team overall blew it and now nobody trusts this franchise especially since they paid and keep trotting Jones out there. Irony.

Agree - and here's the thing.... The GM, coach, and front-office are the professionals. They scouted him before the season and hedged their bets by not picking up the option. If you had looked at 2022 even casually, you would have seen the Eagles game was a much more telling barometer of both Jones and the state of the team in general than the Vikings game. I remember multiple posters saying that. And I would expect our front office to do more than a casual, fan-level review!

As JonC notes, non-professionals could see it, so the people who have made a living out of this and are paid millions for their expertise sure as HELL should have seen it. Entirely foreseeable and predictable.

There wasn't a single moment this past Sunday that wasn't 100% foreseeable. That's why I'm livid right now - you keep doing the same thing and expecting different results?

After the playoff loss, Eagles QBs were laughing, saying he's a one-read QB and they knew where he was going. I'll dig it up, but I remember the rookie Seattle DB said the same thing last year. As others have, and as Minnesota players said after Sunday's game.

This has been plain as day to casual fans. Jones is just not able to process and make decisions quickly enough--even with the substantial scheming we're doing to hide his weaknesses.

Enough is enough.

Yessir, good post.

...

I never liked the pick and unfortunately I was correct.

Don't expect him to be a terrible as he was in week 1. He is not the answer here but I think they delay benching him as a PR move.

In comment 16605956 christian said:

Quote:

In comment 16605937 4xchamps said: Quote: revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right? You seem quite unhappy participating in this community.

He pulls off the amazing combination of being consistently wrong, and consistently condescending about it. One of the worst on BBI.

Mike, that's it, the Giants should hire this guy:

About the 5th year.
Once you didn't want him back, waffling got us here.

He shouldn't have started a game after that 2021 Denver game. That was not a good team to lose to like that and he still looked bad. That fumble was a joke.

Glennon starts every game and they go 0-17. Oh well. Maybe it's the shake up they needed.

In comment 16606049 Chris in LA said:

Quote:

After the playoff loss, Eagles QBs were laughing, saying he's a one-read QB and they knew where he was going. I'll dig it up, but I remember the rookie Seattle DB said the same thing last year. As others have, and as Minnesota players said after Sunday's game. This has been plain as day to casual fans. Jones is just not able to process and make decisions quickly enough--even with the substantial scheming we're doing to hide his weaknesses. Enough is enough.

The Seattle DB is Devon Witherspoon. Who said...

Quote:

"We knew he liked to stare down his first target," Witherspoon told NFL Network after the game. "We were just trusting the game plan the coaches laid out for us..."

In comment 16605965 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16605956 christian said: Quote: In comment 16605937 4xchamps said: Quote: revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right? You seem quite unhappy participating in this community. Our favorite poster makes a lot of appearances in that Stafford thread - our Fatfriend in Charlotte. Needless to say, unfortunately, he was wrong on Stafford.

Ooof, this one is particularly bad


an inverse proportion of condescension and knowledge - ( New Window )

absolutely did not want to draft Jones at #6. I also saw several of his games at Duke. I thought he was a second round player, even acknowledging that his OL was putrid and his WRs dropped the second most passes of any group of WRs in D1 football that year IIRC. Because QBs are routinely overdrafted, I would have grudgingly accepted taking him at #17, if only to get the fifth year option. But at #6 we passed on Josh Allen.

I would have used the FT on him after the Minnesota playoff win despite the $32.5M cap hit, and then let him go after the next season.

I was completely done with him as a fan after that hideous pick six against Seattle where he had Waller wide open in the end zone.

also would have strongly considered drafting Herbert in 2020 and trading Jones, although there is no way that would have happened.

In comment 16606080 santacruzom said:

Quote:

Ooof, this one is particularly bad an inverse proportion of condescension and knowledge - ( New Window )

Look, my Fatfriend may have been out of the country when this happened. Sometimes life gets in the way. Hopefully, this helps him if he's lurking... ;)

Even with the contract I would have drafted McCarthy.

UVA was a crap program for three decades before George Welsh.
Have to be very fortunate again to become relevant.

As soon as the Rams traded for Stafford, I knew to put my future on them to win the whole shabang.

In comment 16605937 4xchamps said:

Quote:

revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right?

interactive
Overview
Usage examples
Similar and opposite words
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
adjective
(of two people or things) influencing or having an effect on each other.
"fully sighted children in interactive play with others with defective vision"
allowing a two-way flow of information between a computer and a computer-user; responding to a user's input.
"a fully interactive map of the area"

In comment 16605965 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 16605956 christian said: Quote: In comment 16605937 4xchamps said: Quote: revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right? You seem quite unhappy participating in this community. Our favorite poster makes a lot of appearances in that Stafford thread - our Fatfriend in Charlotte. Needless to say, unfortunately, he was wrong on Stafford.

Not to mention our friend “Bryan” who said Jones would be as good as Stafford

Even if it meant Barkley walked.

.

That's what I remembered. And I remember being annoyed because the Eagles said it the season before. For F's sake, we're a year later and it's the same damned thing. Trotting him out for another snap is professional malpractice.

In comment 16606109 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

Quote: RE: Pat McAfee is pretty convinced the Colts are the destination with bw in dc : 1/26/2021 3:23 pm : link In comment 15134969 Zeke's Alibi said: Rodgers was just very good on McAfee's show (AR's weekly Tuesday appearance). Guy is a breath of fresh air with his candor, whether you agree or disagree with his opinions. I would love to see Rodgers with Reich or BB. Indy seems much closer to really competing, however, than the Pats, who have a lot of leaks in their dam...

I get a lot wrong, but I'm not sure what the issue is here. I said I would like to see Rodgers in Indy or New England.

Was the joke

In comment 16606028 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

In comment 16606006 GiantTuff1 said: Quote: a perfect chance at a clean break after 2022 with no financial ramifications. It would have taken balls to do after a playoff season, but there is always a way to get something done and they would have been vindicated by Jones' poor play (or backup status) elsewhere. Daboll and Schoen had the goodwill to do just about anything they wanted at that time and the fans would have listened. The team overall blew it and now nobody trusts this franchise especially since they paid and keep trotting Jones out there. Irony. The fan reaction if the season goes where it’s headed is going to be 1000x worse than the backlash for letting Jones walk after the playoff year and possibly tanking.

As it should be.

In comment 16606049 Chris in LA said:

Quote:

After the playoff loss, Eagles QBs were laughing, saying he's a one-read QB and they knew where he was going. I'll dig it up, but I remember the rookie Seattle DB said the same thing last year. As others have, and as Minnesota players said after Sunday's game. This has been plain as day to casual fans. Jones is just not able to process and make decisions quickly enough--even with the substantial scheming we're doing to hide his weaknesses. Enough is enough.

Good posts Chris.

The reason I’m so critical of Mara and 75% think Schoen and Daboll are being held hostage on this situation is we have seen this song and dance before with holding onto an owner loved QB much too long before (Eli), and we are seeing it again. I tend to believe this is coming top down because is so defies logic that there is almost no way Schoen and Daboll and the whole staff could be this deaf, blind, and stupid.

I have been a pretty consistent optimist. Liked enough of his historic game to think that he could do something with an improved OL and very talented receiving corps. I thought he played well except for fumbling his rookie year. Under Judge he made a horrible team look occasionally decent. Would have given him his option if medicals checked out. 2022 seemed like vindication. Team was awful in 2023 and he did not help. He had one good half and that Seattle game was an abomination.

But last week stands alone. Could not pull the trigger. This is not arm strength, nor is this processing. He is broken. This is Chuck Knoblach level of bad throws. He should not play again for the Giants. If you think you can win this year play Lock. If not play Devito and see if maybe he has something.

Barkley pick reaction. I think the Barkley pick was a reaction to the 2017 debacle and the Eagles winning the Superbowl. So you could go back to the Eli Manning benching to stop Mara from having to cover his tracks. That said they would have done something else stupid even if Eli was not benched. So I go back to the Atlanta Philadelphia playoff game and have the DB who decided to jump in the air to knee the ball in the air for an Eagles' completion stay on the ground and catch the pick 6 Nock Foles served up. The Eagles don't win the Superbowl and whatever happens with the Giants happens. Chances are Jones isn't drafted and whatever alternate universe of suck Mara has steered the franchise would be reality but hey, at least the Eagles would have not won the Superbowl

In comment 16606150 GiantTuff1 said:

Quote:

The reason I’m so critical of Mara and 75% think Schoen and Daboll are being held hostage on this situation is we have seen this song and dance before with holding onto an owner loved QB much too long before (Eli), and we are seeing it again. I tend to believe this is coming top down because is so defies logic that there is almost no way Schoen and Daboll and the whole staff could be this deaf, blind, and stupid.

Did you watch Hard Knocks? Palpitations signed-off on the trade idea for Schoen to move up if he wanted to make a deal. Why would Mara allow that if he is so dedicated to Jones?

Sorry, but the keys to the football operations at 1925 Giants Way are with Joe Schoen. He's calling the shots on football personnel.

The myth in all of this there should be no way Schoen could possibly like Jones. Alas, he does. And he's quadrupled down on the idea over two years.

New regime in. 5th year option declined. There was no upside in keeping him around. He should have been traded for a conditional draft pick.

It's why I so hated Mara's comments saying they've done everything possible to screw the kid up. Why say that? Schoen hasn't even been on the job for a day and you are making your opinion known. He should have been traded and Tyrod Taylor the starter.

Always a half measure.

I hated the pick at the time so I would have never drafted in the first place. But after he was a Giant? I would have let him go after '21.

In '22, Dabs/Kafka got all the juice out of him that they could running a very conservative, limited offense. Once they tried opening it up in '23, it went to hell in a hand basket. & it very well might cost Schoen & Dabs their respective gigs, which-@ the time-I'm completely fine with. Dabs almost seems resigned to his fate.

.

In comment 16606080 santacruzom said:

Quote:

In comment 16605965 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 16605956 christian said: Quote: In comment 16605937 4xchamps said: Quote: revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right? You seem quite unhappy participating in this community. Our favorite poster makes a lot of appearances in that Stafford thread - our Fatfriend in Charlotte. Needless to say, unfortunately, he was wrong on Stafford. Ooof, this one is particularly bad an inverse proportion of condescension and knowledge - ( New Window )

But still need to be careful with what you read.

Even archived posts have been known to be altered from time to time.

In comment 16605893 santacruzom said:

Quote:

this thread about Matthew Stafford is a gem to read years later Stafford and Lions to part ways - ( New Window )

I was wrong about the 11th pick which ended up being Toney. That would have been a great hypothetical trade for NYG.

Is keep him and Daboll repeating their putrid approach to scoring….run the table all the way up to nov. 10 in Germany, play that game with last Sunday’s incompetence and lock up the #1 pick and let Little Bill pick a qb….(JS needs his walking papers too)….With coach Belichick his giants will NEVER give up a 100 yard drive, which was the most demoralizing element to the first game. Stadium’s PA system should have been playing “WIPEOUT” during that entire Vikings drive.

I don't post much, sorry for the long post and if the format is bad.

I wasn't extremely excited about the pick but I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Thought he would sit behind Eli for a season.

Then came his 1st career start vs TB, which was a fantastic game to start a career, followed by a bad stretch that I thought might be part of the learning curve for a rookie, and then he set a few rookie records, 24 passing TDs in 12 games (which I believe was on pace for most in a full rookie season), and four games with 4+ TDs, not bad at all for a rookie season. The biggest complaints I remember were about his fumbles. I can't believe how much he's regressed from his rookie season to his 6th one. He has never passed for 3 touchdowns in a game ever since. Actually, he's never thrown for exactly 3 TD in any game in his career, which is incredibly odd.

Then came the 2020 season, 2 touchdowns in 4 games to open the season, only 47 points scored. Ironically, I started giving up on him during his good streak, when he was slow to pass the ball in the 2point conversion to tie the game vs TB. Then I lost a little more faith with each passing game, @ CIN (yes, even in a win), vs ARI and @ BAL. At that point was the first time I was ready to move on.

But Daniel had the knack to flash once in a while so you'd reconsider giving him a shot, especially since this was our only option since ownership would never move on. The clutch game vs DAL to close the 2020 season and possibly make the playoffs was a good one. 2021 was a mess, with the lone bright spot being the NO game, I couldn't believe how the Giants didn't move on then. Especially with the neck injury.

2022 was a nice season to watch, not necessarily a great QB season, but a great leader of the team season by Daniel, capped off by one of his best games @ MIN in the playoffs. After that game? Everything has been a completely disaster, even his lone good moment @ ARI last season was only possible because he played like shit before halftime. And the Cardinals were a terrible team.

So, to summarise, I was ready to move on ever since the BAL game in 2020 and the most iconic play that made me doubt him was the late 2 point attempt vs TB.

The only pass I give ownership and the GM is that I believe it was too soon in the Daniel Jones saga to draft Justin Herbert, then 2021 and 2022 were very bad QB drafts (outside of Brock Purdy which nobody knew would be good). 2023 is the 1st draft where opportunity and cost could line up, and it definitely lined up in 2024, inexcusable to leave this past draft without a QB, no matter how good Nabers might become.

Just a final observation, imo, if your QB isn't Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, or in the same tier, you should NEVER stop trying to upgrade the position, wheter it's through the Draft, Free Agency, a trade, whatever it takes. The only way to guarantee you'll fail is if you never try.

I would have franchised him and be done with him now.

From that '21 Stafford thread-

Yeah, agree with GT.
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 1/23/2021 7:30 pm : link
We'd be fortunate if Jones becomes Stafford. Again, I'm not willing to give up on DJ at this moment, but he needs to show a lot this upcoming season.

I also said in that threat that I thought the Pats would be good in '21, which they were.

(Patting myself on the back, Haha.)

In comment 16606206 jomps said:

Quote:

I don't post much, sorry for the long post and if the format is bad. I wasn't extremely excited about the pick but I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Thought he would sit behind Eli for a season. Then came his 1st career start vs TB, which was a fantastic game to start a career, followed by a bad stretch that I thought might be part of the learning curve for a rookie, and then he set a few rookie records, 24 passing TDs in 12 games (which I believe was on pace for most in a full rookie season), and four games with 4+ TDs, not bad at all for a rookie season. The biggest complaints I remember were about his fumbles. I can't believe how much he's regressed from his rookie season to his 6th one. He has never passed for 3 touchdowns in a game ever since. Actually, he's never thrown for exactly 3 TD in any game in his career, which is incredibly odd. Then came the 2020 season, 2 touchdowns in 4 games to open the season, only 47 points scored. Ironically, I started giving up on him during his good streak, when he was slow to pass the ball in the 2point conversion to tie the game vs TB. Then I lost a little more faith with each passing game, @ CIN (yes, even in a win), vs ARI and @ BAL. At that point was the first time I was ready to move on. But Daniel had the knack to flash once in a while so you'd reconsider giving him a shot, especially since this was our only option since ownership would never move on. The clutch game vs DAL to close the 2020 season and possibly make the playoffs was a good one. 2021 was a mess, with the lone bright spot being the NO game, I couldn't believe how the Giants didn't move on then. Especially with the neck injury. 2022 was a nice season to watch, not necessarily a great QB season, but a great leader of the team season by Daniel, capped off by one of his best games @ MIN in the playoffs. After that game? Everything has been a completely disaster, even his lone good moment @ ARI last season was only possible because he played like shit before halftime. And the Cardinals were a terrible team. So, to summarise, I was ready to move on ever since the BAL game in 2020 and the most iconic play that made me doubt him was the late 2 point attempt vs TB. The only pass I give ownership and the GM is that I believe it was too soon in the Daniel Jones saga to draft Justin Herbert, then 2021 and 2022 were very bad QB drafts (outside of Brock Purdy which nobody knew would be good). 2023 is the 1st draft where opportunity and cost could line up, and it definitely lined up in 2024, inexcusable to leave this past draft without a QB, no matter how good Nabers might become. Just a final observation, imo, if your QB isn't Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, or in the same tier, you should NEVER stop trying to upgrade the position, wheter it's through the Draft, Free Agency, a trade, whatever it takes. The only way to guarantee you'll fail is if you never try.

Great post.

Oh yeah. Totally forgot about that 2 point conversion fuck up of his in the TV game.

In comment 16606206 jomps said:

Quote:

I don't post much, sorry for the long post and if the format is bad. I wasn't extremely excited about the pick but I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Thought he would sit behind Eli for a season. Then came his 1st career start vs TB, which was a fantastic game to start a career, followed by a bad stretch that I thought might be part of the learning curve for a rookie, and then he set a few rookie records, 24 passing TDs in 12 games (which I believe was on pace for most in a full rookie season), and four games with 4+ TDs, not bad at all for a rookie season. The biggest complaints I remember were about his fumbles. I can't believe how much he's regressed from his rookie season to his 6th one. He has never passed for 3 touchdowns in a game ever since. Actually, he's never thrown for exactly 3 TD in any game in his career, which is incredibly odd. Then came the 2020 season, 2 touchdowns in 4 games to open the season, only 47 points scored. Ironically, I started giving up on him during his good streak, when he was slow to pass the ball in the 2point conversion to tie the game vs TB. Then I lost a little more faith with each passing game, @ CIN (yes, even in a win), vs ARI and @ BAL. At that point was the first time I was ready to move on. But Daniel had the knack to flash once in a while so you'd reconsider giving him a shot, especially since this was our only option since ownership would never move on. The clutch game vs DAL to close the 2020 season and possibly make the playoffs was a good one. 2021 was a mess, with the lone bright spot being the NO game, I couldn't believe how the Giants didn't move on then. Especially with the neck injury. 2022 was a nice season to watch, not necessarily a great QB season, but a great leader of the team season by Daniel, capped off by one of his best games @ MIN in the playoffs. After that game? Everything has been a completely disaster, even his lone good moment @ ARI last season was only possible because he played like shit before halftime. And the Cardinals were a terrible team. So, to summarise, I was ready to move on ever since the BAL game in 2020 and the most iconic play that made me doubt him was the late 2 point attempt vs TB. The only pass I give ownership and the GM is that I believe it was too soon in the Daniel Jones saga to draft Justin Herbert, then 2021 and 2022 were very bad QB drafts (outside of Brock Purdy which nobody knew would be good). 2023 is the 1st draft where opportunity and cost could line up, and it definitely lined up in 2024, inexcusable to leave this past draft without a QB, no matter how good Nabers might become. Just a final observation, imo, if your QB isn't Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, or in the same tier, you should NEVER stop trying to upgrade the position, wheter it's through the Draft, Free Agency, a trade, whatever it takes. The only way to guarantee you'll fail is if you never try.

Great post. Very fair points. Last year’s 6 games after the contract should have been the final nail.

In comment 16606158 St. Jimmy said:

Quote:

Barkley pick reaction. I think the Barkley pick was a reaction to the 2017 debacle and the Eagles winning the Superbowl. So you could go back to the Eli Manning benching to stop Mara from having to cover his tracks. That said they would have done something else stupid even if Eli was not benched. So I go back to the Atlanta Philadelphia playoff game and have the DB who decided to jump in the air to knee the ball in the air for an Eagles' completion stay on the ground and catch the pick 6 Nock Foles served up. The Eagles don't win the Superbowl and whatever happens with the Giants happens. Chances are Jones isn't drafted and whatever alternate universe of suck Mara has steered the franchise would be reality but hey, at least the Eagles would have not won the Superbowl

Interesting theory on the 2017 Eagles Superbowl win. I was hoping for the opposite reaction; that the Giants would realize they had been thoroughly lapped by their division rival and would finally stop making half-assed moves to recreate the 2011 season. Of course they did the opposite.

That moron Falcons DB jumping up for NO reason and the ball bouncing straight up in the air directly into an Eagle players hands, that has to be one of the most infuriating plays I've ever seen in my life in all of sports.

Atlanta Falcons. What a joke of a franchise. Absolutely good for nothing.

In comment 16606463 Route 9 said:

Quote:

That moron Falcons DB jumping up for NO reason and the ball bouncing straight up in the air directly into an Eagle players hands, that has to be one of the most infuriating plays I've ever seen in my life in all of sports. Atlanta Falcons. What a joke of a franchise. Absolutely good for nothing.

When that played happened I knew the Eagles were winning the Super Bowl.

I had some faith they'd punch the ball in the end zone when they quickly moved the ball down the field. I was actually in the parking lot for that stupid ass game.

Fuck Matt Ryan forever.

Dallas put Dak on the tag twice, I believe

because he should have never been drafted at #6. All the flags were there. Unfortunately, you could see it coming from a mile away with Gettleman's man-crush and all the beats were on it. The only question was would Jones be at 6 or would they try to wait until 17. Gettleman's lust never sleeps.

reason Jones is still here is that the Giants front office
loves him on a personal level and worse doesn't see him for the player he is.

Dabol and Schoen may not survive a 3 win season....which this will be.

In comment 16606206 jomps said:

Quote:

I don't post much, sorry for the long post and if the format is bad. I wasn't extremely excited about the pick but I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Thought he would sit behind Eli for a season. Then came his 1st career start vs TB, which was a fantastic game to start a career, followed by a bad stretch that I thought might be part of the learning curve for a rookie, and then he set a few rookie records, 24 passing TDs in 12 games (which I believe was on pace for most in a full rookie season), and four games with 4+ TDs, not bad at all for a rookie season. The biggest complaints I remember were about his fumbles. I can't believe how much he's regressed from his rookie season to his 6th one. He has never passed for 3 touchdowns in a game ever since. Actually, he's never thrown for exactly 3 TD in any game in his career, which is incredibly odd. Then came the 2020 season, 2 touchdowns in 4 games to open the season, only 47 points scored. Ironically, I started giving up on him during his good streak, when he was slow to pass the ball in the 2point conversion to tie the game vs TB. Then I lost a little more faith with each passing game, @ CIN (yes, even in a win), vs ARI and @ BAL. At that point was the first time I was ready to move on. But Daniel had the knack to flash once in a while so you'd reconsider giving him a shot, especially since this was our only option since ownership would never move on. The clutch game vs DAL to close the 2020 season and possibly make the playoffs was a good one. 2021 was a mess, with the lone bright spot being the NO game, I couldn't believe how the Giants didn't move on then. Especially with the neck injury. 2022 was a nice season to watch, not necessarily a great QB season, but a great leader of the team season by Daniel, capped off by one of his best games @ MIN in the playoffs. After that game? Everything has been a completely disaster, even his lone good moment @ ARI last season was only possible because he played like shit before halftime. And the Cardinals were a terrible team. So, to summarise, I was ready to move on ever since the BAL game in 2020 and the most iconic play that made me doubt him was the late 2 point attempt vs TB. The only pass I give ownership and the GM is that I believe it was too soon in the Daniel Jones saga to draft Justin Herbert, then 2021 and 2022 were very bad QB drafts (outside of Brock Purdy which nobody knew would be good). 2023 is the 1st draft where opportunity and cost could line up, and it definitely lined up in 2024, inexcusable to leave this past draft without a QB, no matter how good Nabers might become. Just a final observation, imo, if your QB isn't Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, or in the same tier, you should NEVER stop trying to upgrade the position, wheter it's through the Draft, Free Agency, a trade, whatever it takes. The only way to guarantee you'll fail is if you never try.

great post. the bolded paragraph is dead on and the biggest factor that most wistfully ignore.

people may have felt better if judge had drafted fields/mac (21), or dabs had drafted willis/pickett/corral (22) or levis (23) but you could have drafted all of those guys and nothing would be different about where the team is right now.

In comment 16607190 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

great post. the bolded paragraph is dead on and the biggest factor that most wistfully ignore. people may have felt better if judge had drafted fields/mac (21), or dabs had drafted willis/pickett/corral (22) or levis (23) but you could have drafted all of those guys and nothing would be different about where the team is right now.

This is wrong. Had they drafted any of those QBs in '21/'22 the current QB might very well be any one of the six first round '24 QBs, and we wouldn't be on the hook for $47M for Jones this year. It would have been better to take a QB in the first round every year from '21 to '24 than to have what actually happened.

resigned him.

hated the contract extension.

If they felt they needed another season with him after the playoff run, then he just should have been franchised an let Barkley go

As a wise man once said: You don't pay a QB big bucks to hand off to an expensive running back...

I’m a firm believer that QBs emerge as real talents by their 3rd season. The previous week, Jones has one of his best games ever in a comeback win vs the Saints. I’m sure we all remember it. Going into the Oct 10 game vs Dallas, I was ready to see Jones play consistently well, this time against a downright good team.

Instead he stunk. Missed throws. Awful. Then he got injured.

That was it.

saw Barkley jettisoned in favor of Jones. If Mara/Schoen/Daboll stretch the leash even longer, they are risking a total collapse.

At some point Jones may even wish he doesn’t see the field again, he has his money. Mara gave Jones 80M, he should feel bad for Jones. He should feel bad for us.

instincts were lacking and I would NEVER have signed him to the contract he received after 2022. That was insane.

In comment 16607464 SomeFan said:

Quote:

instincts were lacking and I would NEVER have signed him to the contract he received after 2022. That was insane.

I am okay with the contract (will get to why below) but have a bigger problem with how they have addressed the position in general. It was criminal going into the season with a QB who is often injured and two guys who are bodies beneath a helmet as backup QBs.

The contract was not an issue for me because it was a two year contract. They knew they were playing Jones last year. If they drafted a rookie this year, they could still afford both with Jones getting paid big money + a rookie contract.

The one thing that fucked us was our inability to sign a veteran free agent (ie Cousins) with the Jones salary on the books. I think Cousins (or someone similar) is our QB next year.

This year, I would sign Tannehill to be our starter if we could find a way to afford him. Then, keep him as our backup next year. Dump Jones and hold onto cutlets as our #3

in that Stafford thread. I'm not a I told you so kinda guy but its good perspective and how else are you going to learn?

I was a big Jones fan, I thought he could be very high level but I was done after last year. I wanted Penix very badly in the draft and have really gone scorched earth with Schoen sticking with Jones. I no longer believe he's the right guy either. I hope its not Schoen picking our next QB, he has no fuckin clue on QB play or roster building.