Kudos for writing that up. Could not have been an enjoyable task. Sometimes I feel this franchise does not deserve such a professional web that is dedicated to it.
RE: RE: Not only did they have an open roster spot,
Is a career journeyman OC at best.. Saban fired him after a year while Kirby Smart worked for Saban 15 yrs … . Not at least having PC kicker travel with team incompetent could have been brought up game day
Team turning into a clusterfuck fast
Daboll overpraising DJ like he’s a rookie in presser pathetic
VDan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Not having a backup plan for a hobbled kicker is an inexcusable error, made worse by the fact that the Giants have been burned by this exact type of miscue in the past. And of course, the worst-case outcome unfolded for the Giants today. On this latest mistake and what it says about this regime
There are calculated risks and then there are devisions born out of arrogance and ignorance of the past! This is that type of situation and decision.. It should be a fire worthy offense!
It was the punt returner issue all over again. At least we didn't force them to punt so we didn't have to see that adventure today.
I gave Daboll the excuse to learn from his past mistakes because the team played hard down the stretch. Today he has proven to me he is not the guy without a doubt.
The bottom line is this is a tough franchise to work for
A young first time GM in Schoen and first time HC in Daboll navigating this franchise was always a tall order. You have to manage John Mara, Chris Mara, Tim McDonnell & Kevin Abrams. You also report to Steve Tisch. It's tough.
Guys like McAdoo, Shurmur & Judge also had no chance.
No one is selling. This is the fact of the franchise.
The Chargers have a similar family dynamic and they finally realized they needed to hire Harbaugh - good for them.
The same will be required here. I think this franchise needs someone tough and unapologetic at HC. Parcells and Coughljn were successful here. Maybe Mara was onto something with Flores.
I don't like how it ended for Vrabel in TEN, but I can see him working here. A tough mindset in the NFC East. Belichick obviously too, I think that needs to be the direction. Someone like that.
A young first time GM in Schoen and first time HC in Daboll navigating this franchise was always a tall order. You have to manage John Mara, Chris Mara, Tim McDonnell & Kevin Abrams. You also report to Steve Tisch. It's tough.
Guys like McAdoo, Shurmur & Judge also had no chance.
No one is selling. This is the fact of the franchise.
The Chargers have a similar family dynamic and they finally realized they needed to hire Harbaugh - good for them.
The same will be required here. I think this franchise needs someone tough and unapologetic at HC. Parcells and Coughljn were successful here. Maybe Mara was onto something with Flores.
I don't like how it ended for Vrabel in TEN, but I can see him working here. A tough mindset in the NFC East. Belichick obviously too, I think that needs to be the direction. Someone like that.
Good post Sean, I just said similar in a different thread. The Giants need to hire someone who is going to make them extremely uncomfortable. Right now I see Vrabel and Belichick as the only two names fitting that mold as well. It feels like Mara really tries to avoid hiring a big personality / known commodity at HC.
When are the national and local media going to start
He’s going to bring his cast of characters w him. Mcdaniels, Patricia, his kid, maybe Joe judge? Is this what we want? He did not do a great job at the end in New England, especially w personnel and I have to imagine he will want control again
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
They wouldn’t have needed to. They could have elevated McAtamney to buy 24 hours. Then have Gano do his warmups before inactives. They then could have made an updated decision on which kicker to activate. Really would have been no downside. Even without McAtamney, why not at least have Gillan handle kickoffs? There’s just no reason to wind up in this spot, again
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
They wouldn’t have needed to. They could have elevated McAtamney to buy 24 hours. Then have Gano do his warmups before inactives. They then could have made an updated decision on which kicker to activate. Really would have been no downside. Even without McAtamney, why not at least have Gillan handle kickoffs? There’s just no reason to wind up in this spot, again
there is a reason.
they are not meticulous.
they are not turning every stone.
they are not detail oriented.
1x i can excuse.
to have this happens 2x in a calendar year is just lack of carelessness to their jobs, to the player, to the game, to the organization, to the fans.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
They wouldn’t have needed to. They could have elevated McAtamney to buy 24 hours. Then have Gano do his warmups before inactives. They then could have made an updated decision on which kicker to activate. Really would have been no downside. Even without McAtamney, why not at least have Gillan handle kickoffs? There’s just no reason to wind up in this spot, again
there is a reason.
they are not meticulous.
they are not turning every stone.
they are not detail oriented.
1x i can excuse.
to have this happens 2x in a calendar year is just lack of carelessness to their jobs, to the player, to the game, to the organization, to the fans.
time to move on.
I can even forgive when a coach makes a bad call during the heat of the moment. He literally has had days to process this info and still messed it up.
RE: not to mention what happened to gunner earlier this year
desperately chasing challenges, a gashed run defense unable to get off the field, Singletary's fumble, all delivering a well-earned defeat.
Daboll coached not to lose, and it backfired as it often does in football. He's been brutal in both games.
Jones played ok, but missed a number of open receivers and bird-dogged a few others, which hurt drives. He rarely finds a rhythm or plays above the X's and O's.
reminds me of Fassel's failure to have a backup long snapper against SF in the 2002 NFC Wild Card game and was forced to use Trey Junkin who was not able to long snap to the kicker.
Wasn’t there something different about the status of an International
Player’s exemption on the practice squad? Something about that he isn’t eligible for a standard elevation because he has to be signed first, meaning someone else needed to be demoted?
1) I was surprised to see Gano active. I was more surprised that they didn't elevate McAtamney. With an injured groin, it is perfectly reasonable to think he could injure it worse in a game.
2) Now, the hammy isn't directly related , so in theory, that could have happened any week and not having another PK active wouldn't have been a thought. But, it also might be related. It's possible he injured his hammy as a result of strains from walking and practicing with the injured groin.
3) The game boiled down to 5 plays. One, Gano hurt on the opening kickoff, which was the most critical. Two, the dropped 4th down pass. Three, the fumble. Four and Five the penalties on 3rd downs that would have otherwise forced punts and gotten them off the field.
RE: Wasn’t there something different about the status of an International
Player’s exemption on the practice squad? Something about that he isn’t eligible for a standard elevation because he has to be signed first, meaning someone else needed to be demoted?
The rules were changed this year to give more flexibility and the international player can be elevated like anyone else on the PS:
Quote:
New Rules for 2024 International Player Pathway Program:
Beginning in 2024, each of the 32 NFL clubs is eligible to fill a 17th roster spot on its practice squad, reserved for an international player. A participating club is permitted to elevate its international practice squad player to its active roster a maximum of three times throughout the season — increasing the flexibility for clubs to leverage the additional player, while creating more opportunity to play.
That said, McAtameney's status as the "extra" player the Giants keep around because he gives them an extra spot may have played into the decision not to activate him.
JM did make an XP and a couple of FGs this pre-season, but other than that, he hasn't made a kick for anybody since 2022. Twelve of 18 FGs that year for Rutgers got him replaced for 2023, when he only attempted one FG, which he missed.
We'll see now whether the Giants regard JM as their real back-up kicker or whether they hold a tryout for one with NFL experience.
desperately chasing challenges, a gashed run defense unable to get off the field, Singletary's fumble, all delivering a well-earned defeat.
Daboll coached not to lose, and it backfired as it often does in football. He's been brutal in both games.
Jones played ok, but missed a number of open receivers and bird-dogged a few others, which hurt drives. He rarely finds a rhythm or plays above the X's and O's.
Exactly. Plus, playing ok against the very poor defense that is the Commanders is not good enough. He had under 200 yards and comp 57% of his passes. He missed throws deep and on one series where we could have given the defense a rest he went three and out with three bad passes..
No, Jones didn't play well against the Commanders and Daboll sucked ass. He isn't what we need in a head coach. He plays not to lose and quite frankly you have to wonder how much of 2022 was luck- Titans game, Ravens game, Panthers with two early turnovers...
He is too arrogant for a guy who since we started 2022 at 6-2 has gone 9-18-1..
RE: RE: No kicker, Daboll chasing those lost points with bad choices
desperately chasing challenges, a gashed run defense unable to get off the field, Singletary's fumble, all delivering a well-earned defeat.
Daboll coached not to lose, and it backfired as it often does in football. He's been brutal in both games.
Jones played ok, but missed a number of open receivers and bird-dogged a few others, which hurt drives. He rarely finds a rhythm or plays above the X's and O's.
Exactly. Plus, playing ok against the very poor defense that is the Commanders is not good enough. He had under 200 yards and comp 57% of his passes. He missed throws deep and on one series where we could have given the defense a rest he went three and out with three bad passes..
No, Jones didn't play well against the Commanders and Daboll sucked ass. He isn't what we need in a head coach. He plays not to lose and quite frankly you have to wonder how much of 2022 was luck- Titans game, Ravens game, Panthers with two early turnovers...
He is too arrogant for a guy who since we started 2022 at 6-2 has gone 9-18-1..
John, by now you should be calmed down. Jones did play well - good enough to win. He did go deep 4 times, 2 over throws and one Nabers bounced off his hands(not an easy). He had only one three and out - the one after Singletary's fumble(that was the killer because they were going to score).
So basically he had one bad drive all day. One.
Surprisingly to me, most of his throws were good. Even the pass to Nabers on 4th down was on the money.
The two point conversions should/could have been caught, IIRC.
It wasn't a great day, but he had only seven series because the defense was the worst I have seen in years - Tim Lewis bad. I actually was surprised - maybe even shocked that he recovered.
VDan Duggan
@DDuggan21
Not having a backup plan for a hobbled kicker is an inexcusable error, made worse by the fact that the Giants have been burned by this exact type of miscue in the past. And of course, the worst-case outcome unfolded for the Giants today. On this latest mistake and what it says about this regime
I have to say, I, for one, was questioning not having the other PS kicker active before the game. When I heard Gano was getting ready to kick, I was surprised he was active. That's one thing. But, I expected to have the other PK on ready. It's not like a PK isn't putting pressure on their groin when kicking. So, hamstring aside from the opening kickoff, there was still a decent chance Gano would either not be 100% or would re-injure his groin. This was a terrible roster decision this week.
reminds me of Fassel's failure to have a backup long snapper against SF in the 2002 NFC Wild Card game and was forced to use Trey Junkin who was not able to long snap to the kicker.
Not quite what happened. The Giants LS was hurt and they specifically signed Junkin, a longtime LS for the role. He just F-d up.
But the deep throws were all off. The first one was close, but did not “bounce off Nabers’ hands.” He dove for it and may have touched it with his finger tips. The next two were air mailed and not even close to where they should have been.
Jones is ok on short and intermediate comebacks and crossers where his first read is open. Against a bad Washington defense they were open most of the day. But if the idea it to take shots down the field, yesterday was not a hopeful sign because his long range accuracy wasn’t good at all.
Can someone explain to me how the hit on Nabers that got him sent off the field was not a penalty. Defender lowered his head and lead with his helmet. Maybe I just do not understand the rule since neither of the announcers even mentioned the possibility despite every replay showing the helmet to helmet collision.
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
They wouldn’t have needed to. They could have elevated McAtamney to buy 24 hours. Then have Gano do his warmups before inactives. They then could have made an updated decision on which kicker to activate. Really would have been no downside. Even without McAtamney, why not at least have Gillan handle kickoffs? There’s just no reason to wind up in this spot, again
there is a reason.
they are not meticulous.
they are not turning every stone.
they are not detail oriented.
1x i can excuse.
to have this happens 2x in a calendar year is just lack of carelessness to their jobs, to the player, to the game, to the organization, to the fans.
time to move on.
Daboll does not respect special teams.
Its Washington & we expected a win, but in week two in the NFL
Nothing is a given. Ask SanFran, Dallas, Baltimore, etc. That said, game mismanagement, another bad defensive game and our recent 1st round draft picks are the most disheartening things to me. Last 1st; I expected a lot more from KT during THIS game. Evan Neal on the Bench. And I feel like BANKS has had a couple of BAD games against very good receivers. I love that Nabors had a very good game and will give him a pass on a couple of miscues. The Defense sucks especially the secondary. I do like Phillips and Dex is always Dex, but again feel like Bowen isn't putting players in there best spots. Its week 2 of this D but it was the Commanders. And not sure if its Daboll or Schoen or both but malpractice with the Gano 'sitch'. I think Daboll needs to get Kafka to either take over playcalling or make him more responsible for EVERYTHING else. Seems like maybe Brian has a little too much on his plate. ALL this wipes out another decent performance by a unit that has sucked for 12 years....kudos to the OL.
Can someone explain to me how the hit on Nabers that got him sent off the field was not a penalty. Defender lowered his head and lead with his helmet. Maybe I just do not understand the rule since neither of the announcers even mentioned the possibility despite every replay showing the helmet to helmet collision.
Yes, in the college game that would have been a penalty for targeting and there would have been a review to see if the defensive player should be ejected.
Can someone explain to me how the hit on Nabers that got him sent off the field was not a penalty. Defender lowered his head and lead with his helmet. Maybe I just do not understand the rule since neither of the announcers even mentioned the possibility despite every replay showing the helmet to helmet collision.
There was another possibility play where he was out of bounds and was clearly hit late! Maybe me just being a homer?
Giants' defense forced 0 punts and 0 turnovers, permitting Washington to control the game through - yup - Smashmouth football.
We can howl all we want about whether the staff should've anticipated an injury to its placekicker, whether Daniel Jones' deep passes should be two inches shorter than they are, and what happens if Malik Nabers catches that fourth down pass.
But this defense is not a quality unit, and it starts at the top.
They didn't even need to sign him, just elevate him.
Quote:
But they also a kicker on the practice squad, who has likely had reps with the current personnel. Wow.
They didn't even need to sign him, just elevate him.
Incredible.
“Why do things that happen to stupid people keep happening to me?”
👏
Here we are again.
Hey Pat Hanlon - if you're reading this tell John it's time to hire a grown up.
Team turning into a clusterfuck fast
Daboll overpraising DJ like he’s a rookie in presser pathetic
Be honest
Who thought that the Giants would be tied with Dallas
in the division
THIS LATE IN THE SEASON???
@DDuggan21
Not having a backup plan for a hobbled kicker is an inexcusable error, made worse by the fact that the Giants have been burned by this exact type of miscue in the past. And of course, the worst-case outcome unfolded for the Giants today. On this latest mistake and what it says about this regime
👏
Here we are again.
Hey Pat Hanlon - if you're reading this tell John it's time to hire a grown up.
Mbavaro has been quiet.
I gave Daboll the excuse to learn from his past mistakes because the team played hard down the stretch. Today he has proven to me he is not the guy without a doubt.
Guys like McAdoo, Shurmur & Judge also had no chance.
No one is selling. This is the fact of the franchise.
The Chargers have a similar family dynamic and they finally realized they needed to hire Harbaugh - good for them.
The same will be required here. I think this franchise needs someone tough and unapologetic at HC. Parcells and Coughljn were successful here. Maybe Mara was onto something with Flores.
I don't like how it ended for Vrabel in TEN, but I can see him working here. A tough mindset in the NFC East. Belichick obviously too, I think that needs to be the direction. Someone like that.
Quote:
🤡
👏
Here we are again.
Hey Pat Hanlon - if you're reading this tell John it's time to hire a grown up.
Mbavaro has been quiet.
A lot of people have been.
Guys like McAdoo, Shurmur & Judge also had no chance.
No one is selling. This is the fact of the franchise.
The Chargers have a similar family dynamic and they finally realized they needed to hire Harbaugh - good for them.
The same will be required here. I think this franchise needs someone tough and unapologetic at HC. Parcells and Coughljn were successful here. Maybe Mara was onto something with Flores.
I don't like how it ended for Vrabel in TEN, but I can see him working here. A tough mindset in the NFC East. Belichick obviously too, I think that needs to be the direction. Someone like that.
Good post Sean, I just said similar in a different thread. The Giants need to hire someone who is going to make them extremely uncomfortable. Right now I see Vrabel and Belichick as the only two names fitting that mold as well. It feels like Mara really tries to avoid hiring a big personality / known commodity at HC.
For all the crap that Pat Leonard and Jordan Rannan take here, some of it deserved, at least they're not Mara toads.
Quote:
But they also a kicker on the practice squad, who has likely had reps with the current personnel. Wow.
They didn't even need to sign him, just elevate him.
Schoen playing chess when everyone else playing checkers.
And all we needed were PATs. Not FGs. PATs. We lost by three PATs.
The conversion rate for PATs in 2023 was 96%. We only lose in regulation if we don’t have a kicker. And we didn’t have a kicker today.
@DDuggan21
They wouldn’t have needed to. They could have elevated McAtamney to buy 24 hours. Then have Gano do his warmups before inactives. They then could have made an updated decision on which kicker to activate. Really would have been no downside. Even without McAtamney, why not at least have Gillan handle kickoffs? There’s just no reason to wind up in this spot, again
@DDuggan21
They wouldn’t have needed to. They could have elevated McAtamney to buy 24 hours. Then have Gano do his warmups before inactives. They then could have made an updated decision on which kicker to activate. Really would have been no downside. Even without McAtamney, why not at least have Gillan handle kickoffs? There’s just no reason to wind up in this spot, again
there is a reason.
they are not meticulous.
they are not turning every stone.
they are not detail oriented.
1x i can excuse.
to have this happens 2x in a calendar year is just lack of carelessness to their jobs, to the player, to the game, to the organization, to the fans.
time to move on.
Mr. John Mara, your father would be deeply ashamed.
and the lack of plan at backup PR.
you thought they would learn from that, but no.
just dumb.
Quote:
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
They wouldn’t have needed to. They could have elevated McAtamney to buy 24 hours. Then have Gano do his warmups before inactives. They then could have made an updated decision on which kicker to activate. Really would have been no downside. Even without McAtamney, why not at least have Gillan handle kickoffs? There’s just no reason to wind up in this spot, again
there is a reason.
they are not meticulous.
they are not turning every stone.
they are not detail oriented.
1x i can excuse.
to have this happens 2x in a calendar year is just lack of carelessness to their jobs, to the player, to the game, to the organization, to the fans.
time to move on.
I can even forgive when a coach makes a bad call during the heat of the moment. He literally has had days to process this info and still messed it up.
and the lack of plan at backup PR.
you thought they would learn from that, but no.
just dumb.
It would have been much better if they didn’t activate a punt returner this week. No need for one today.
Daboll coached not to lose, and it backfired as it often does in football. He's been brutal in both games.
Jones played ok, but missed a number of open receivers and bird-dogged a few others, which hurt drives. He rarely finds a rhythm or plays above the X's and O's.
BTW, the Vikings beat the 49ers today...Hmmm
Mr. John Mara, your father would be deeply ashamed.
You mean Wellington? Who ruined Giants football for 15 years?...
2) Now, the hammy isn't directly related , so in theory, that could have happened any week and not having another PK active wouldn't have been a thought. But, it also might be related. It's possible he injured his hammy as a result of strains from walking and practicing with the injured groin.
3) The game boiled down to 5 plays. One, Gano hurt on the opening kickoff, which was the most critical. Two, the dropped 4th down pass. Three, the fumble. Four and Five the penalties on 3rd downs that would have otherwise forced punts and gotten them off the field.
The rules were changed this year to give more flexibility and the international player can be elevated like anyone else on the PS:
New Rules for 2024 International Player Pathway Program:
Beginning in 2024, each of the 32 NFL clubs is eligible to fill a 17th roster spot on its practice squad, reserved for an international player. A participating club is permitted to elevate its international practice squad player to its active roster a maximum of three times throughout the season — increasing the flexibility for clubs to leverage the additional player, while creating more opportunity to play.
That said, McAtameney's status as the "extra" player the Giants keep around because he gives them an extra spot may have played into the decision not to activate him.
JM did make an XP and a couple of FGs this pre-season, but other than that, he hasn't made a kick for anybody since 2022. Twelve of 18 FGs that year for Rutgers got him replaced for 2023, when he only attempted one FG, which he missed.
We'll see now whether the Giants regard JM as their real back-up kicker or whether they hold a tryout for one with NFL experience.
nfl.com - ( New Window )
Daboll coached not to lose, and it backfired as it often does in football. He's been brutal in both games.
Jones played ok, but missed a number of open receivers and bird-dogged a few others, which hurt drives. He rarely finds a rhythm or plays above the X's and O's.
Exactly. Plus, playing ok against the very poor defense that is the Commanders is not good enough. He had under 200 yards and comp 57% of his passes. He missed throws deep and on one series where we could have given the defense a rest he went three and out with three bad passes..
No, Jones didn't play well against the Commanders and Daboll sucked ass. He isn't what we need in a head coach. He plays not to lose and quite frankly you have to wonder how much of 2022 was luck- Titans game, Ravens game, Panthers with two early turnovers...
He is too arrogant for a guy who since we started 2022 at 6-2 has gone 9-18-1..
Quote:
desperately chasing challenges, a gashed run defense unable to get off the field, Singletary's fumble, all delivering a well-earned defeat.
Daboll coached not to lose, and it backfired as it often does in football. He's been brutal in both games.
Jones played ok, but missed a number of open receivers and bird-dogged a few others, which hurt drives. He rarely finds a rhythm or plays above the X's and O's.
Exactly. Plus, playing ok against the very poor defense that is the Commanders is not good enough. He had under 200 yards and comp 57% of his passes. He missed throws deep and on one series where we could have given the defense a rest he went three and out with three bad passes..
No, Jones didn't play well against the Commanders and Daboll sucked ass. He isn't what we need in a head coach. He plays not to lose and quite frankly you have to wonder how much of 2022 was luck- Titans game, Ravens game, Panthers with two early turnovers...
He is too arrogant for a guy who since we started 2022 at 6-2 has gone 9-18-1..
John, by now you should be calmed down. Jones did play well - good enough to win. He did go deep 4 times, 2 over throws and one Nabers bounced off his hands(not an easy). He had only one three and out - the one after Singletary's fumble(that was the killer because they were going to score).
So basically he had one bad drive all day. One.
Surprisingly to me, most of his throws were good. Even the pass to Nabers on 4th down was on the money.
The two point conversions should/could have been caught, IIRC.
It wasn't a great day, but he had only seven series because the defense was the worst I have seen in years - Tim Lewis bad. I actually was surprised - maybe even shocked that he recovered.
@DDuggan21
Not having a backup plan for a hobbled kicker is an inexcusable error, made worse by the fact that the Giants have been burned by this exact type of miscue in the past. And of course, the worst-case outcome unfolded for the Giants today. On this latest mistake and what it says about this regime
Jones is ok on short and intermediate comebacks and crossers where his first read is open. Against a bad Washington defense they were open most of the day. But if the idea it to take shots down the field, yesterday was not a hopeful sign because his long range accuracy wasn’t good at all.
Quote:
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
They wouldn’t have needed to. They could have elevated McAtamney to buy 24 hours. Then have Gano do his warmups before inactives. They then could have made an updated decision on which kicker to activate. Really would have been no downside. Even without McAtamney, why not at least have Gillan handle kickoffs? There’s just no reason to wind up in this spot, again
there is a reason.
they are not meticulous.
they are not turning every stone.
they are not detail oriented.
1x i can excuse.
to have this happens 2x in a calendar year is just lack of carelessness to their jobs, to the player, to the game, to the organization, to the fans.
time to move on.
Yes, in the college game that would have been a penalty for targeting and there would have been a review to see if the defensive player should be ejected.
Those should be reviewable plays because these blind mice running around in white & black stripes can't be trusted with players health.
They all stood around looking at the ground as Nabers, a bright young star, was led off the field.
Until they adopt the college rule, players health is no longer the concern that Goodell and the NFL claim it is.
Ridiculous. And I would say the same if it was McLaurin.
There was another possibility play where he was out of bounds and was clearly hit late! Maybe me just being a homer?
We can howl all we want about whether the staff should've anticipated an injury to its placekicker, whether Daniel Jones' deep passes should be two inches shorter than they are, and what happens if Malik Nabers catches that fourth down pass.
But this defense is not a quality unit, and it starts at the top.