we mentioned in the season preview (the prediction one) was the Giants could find themselves competing for the division if the two top teams came back to the pack some.. Here we are, two weeks in and Washington is very beatable as we knew before the season started and Philly could easily be 0-2 right now and Dallas after beating Cleveland was DESTROYED by the Saints in their own stadium...
To be 0-2 and look so bad week one and so stupid in week 2 is even more disappointing. The fact that Dallas and Philly could be slipping will actually work even more against Daboll and possibly Schoen if the Giants flat out fall apart the rest of this season.
He is still giving the company line that they had no choice, which is ridiculous. He mentioned that there was no one available who they could have gotten, so of course they had to give Jones that contract, even through Darnold, Minshew, and Baker have all been available.
Then the more egregious part is the line "they couldn't have gotten Okereke if they tagged Jones". Bullshit. Sure, they might have had to choose between Saquon and Okereke last year, but what about all of the players they couldn't sign this year, and might not be able to sign next year because of the Jones contract? The bottom line is by choosing to give him that contract, they committed 52 million more dollars to him than if they tagged him and then let him walk after the disaster last year. Even if you account for the cost of signing a bridge starter this year (about 10-12 million), it still nets the Giants 40 million in extra cap space over 2 years without sacrificing QB play (any of those guys would play as well or better than Jones has over the past 2 years). So instead of talking about how we wouldn't be able to sign Okereke last year if we tagged him, how about we talk about the fact that we don't have a CB2 this year because they signed him to that contract. Or how we don't have a DT2, or swing tackle, or competent backup QB this year because they signed him.
Both his reporting and opinions seem very straight forward and give a good perspective of how the team is viewed without any fandom and or hot take garbage.
I know the kicker business dominates the train of thought but there were critical mistakes that blew this game as well. The drop, the fumble, the 2 point pass Slayton couldn't bring down. And the missed sack, Pinnock penalties extending drives and lack of stops outside the redzone.
There is a slew of things that cost you a one score game you could do 3 hours on what ifs.
in addition to Phillips I do feel that Nubin is close to breaking out. I feel like this Defense is playing on its heels and not downhill enough and I just pray that will change as guys get comfortable.
Yeah, I mentioned you specifically with that one. I just don't believe that will be the case. If we are bad enough where we would need a 3 game win streak to get to 4 wins late then Jones is already sitting on the bench and Daboll's fate is sealed.
Both his reporting and opinions seem very straight forward and give a good perspective of how the team is viewed without any fandom and or hot take garbage.
I know the kicker business dominates the train of thought but there were critical mistakes that blew this game as well. The drop, the fumble, the 2 point pass Slayton couldn't bring down. And the missed sack, Pinnock penalties extending drives and lack of stops outside the redzone.
There is a slew of things that cost you a one score game you could do 3 hours on what ifs.
in addition to Phillips I do feel that Nubin is close to breaking out. I feel like this Defense is playing on its heels and not downhill enough and I just pray that will change as guys get comfortable.
If you caught it, I harped big time on the defense, plus talked about those two bad miscues on offense.
I'm hoping the Giants win zero games. Schoen is as incompetent as Daboll and shouldn't survive this.
What's so frustrating is the utter lack of strategic thinking from the Giants. The thought that some meaningless wins at the end of the season could impact decisions...
The decisions on Jones, Daboll, and Schoen should already be made! The back channel discussions to Belichick (if that's the target) should already have begun.
that seems to thinking instead of reacting - that will change.. We have an OL that is actually doing its job thank you Father Carmen.. We have a QB that is starting to look a little comfortable and finding his receivers.. We have added players of significance and are starting to show it. We have a coach that needs to remember he was coach of the year and lets win some games. Now we see if it comes together the next few games will be telling.
but we are two games in and 9 teams are 0-2. Our own division is made up of teams that are coming back to the pack. The talk of meaningless wins can be had at the end of the year but it won't be now.
Too often we (fans) make comments and decisions that are easy to do in a vacuum but not so much if that were your job, your responsibility.
Dallas has a tough game against an 0-2 Ravens team that NEEDS to win in a very tough AFC. This game will be physical and taxing and Dallas didn't look good against New Orleans- at home.
If Dallas loses and suffers any physical losses they will be coming to NY on a two game losing streak and hurting. The Giants if they somehow beat Cleveland would be facing the Boys at home with the same record. (again, just playing scenarios)..
The league is far more "even" than most want to admit. Right now Daboll is coaching for his job and Schoen isn't that far behind.
but we are two games in and 9 teams are 0-2. Our own division is made up of teams that are coming back to the pack. The talk of meaningless wins can be had at the end of the year but it won't be now.
Too often we (fans) make comments and decisions that are easy to do in a vacuum but not so much if that were your job, your responsibility.
Dallas has a tough game against an 0-2 Ravens team that NEEDS to win in a very tough AFC. This game will be physical and taxing and Dallas didn't look good against New Orleans- at home.
If Dallas loses and suffers any physical losses they will be coming to NY on a two game losing streak and hurting. The Giants if they somehow beat Cleveland would be facing the Boys at home with the same record. (again, just playing scenarios)..
The league is far more "even" than most want to admit. Right now Daboll is coaching for his job and Schoen isn't that far behind.
This isn't about the Giants' place in the standings, though. Schoen and Daboll have shown themselves to be incompetent. You're right that the league is right - it's designed to be that way - but that doesn't mean Schoen and Daboll are good at their jobs.
We should expect better. Much better. The expectation coming into the season should have been 10 wins and the playoffs. Instead we're hearing from someone who'd know that 7 wins is the actual number. That is so sad.
If the Giants somehow found themselves in the playoff hunt it'd have more to do with the rest of the league than it does with them. We know the Giants are poorly managed and poorly coached. Just because many other teams are also poorly run is no reason to maintain incompetence.
If the Giants somehow found themselves in the playoff hunt it'd have more to do with the rest of the league than it does with them. We know the Giants are poorly managed and poorly coached. Just because many other teams are also poorly run is no reason to maintain incompetence.
I get that but at the same time, you could say that about the 2011 team that struggled mightily most of the year. if the league is less the Giants need to be more (and still know you have to change things next year)..
I am not sold that these guys can turn it around, even in a league with lots of also rans BUT, quite frankly, you have a kicker and we win that game Sunday. (Forgetting all of the other things defensively that needed fixing).
Resetting every 2-3 years makes it difficult for any kind of cohesion. Especially with the OL.
We are dealing with a new DC now which looks bad. The OL is playing better with a new coach, but we are potentially looking at another new OL coach next year.
Schoen brings in Wink players only for Wink to leave.
This is how bad teams stay bad.
jvm said it and he's right. It's on Daboll that these coaches aren't working. They overhauled a huge part of the coaching staff. As Terps have said, if a change was possible then it should just have happened after last season. Because now it's possible you'll have new position coaches AGAIN after this season.
It's hard for crappy franchises to get out of this rut.
Resetting every 2-3 years makes it difficult for any kind of cohesion. Especially with the OL.
We are dealing with a new DC now which looks bad. The OL is playing better with a new coach, but we are potentially looking at another new OL coach next year.
Schoen brings in Wink players only for Wink to leave.
This is how bad teams stay bad.
jvm said it and he's right. It's on Daboll that these coaches aren't working. They overhauled a huge part of the coaching staff. As Terps have said, if a change was possible then it should just have happened after last season. Because now it's possible you'll have new position coaches AGAIN after this season.
It's hard for crappy franchises to get out of this rut.
Imagine the Giants had cleaned house after last season and hired the Jim Harbaugh/Joe Hortiz combo in January. How would we be feeling? The only argument against doing that was that Daboll/Schoen didn't deserve that fate after only two years.
Too much thought goes into what people deserve, and not enough goes into how we can improve.
Watching. Some good stuff from Connor. I think I'm mostly on the same page with Jon and Eric. With that said... After multiple bone head mistakes on Dabolls part. Anything short of the playoffs he should be gone. Schoen I'm indifferent about at this point.
Resetting every 2-3 years makes it difficult for any kind of cohesion. Especially with the OL.
We are dealing with a new DC now which looks bad. The OL is playing better with a new coach, but we are potentially looking at another new OL coach next year.
Schoen brings in Wink players only for Wink to leave.
This is how bad teams stay bad.
jvm said it and he's right. It's on Daboll that these coaches aren't working. They overhauled a huge part of the coaching staff. As Terps have said, if a change was possible then it should just have happened after last season. Because now it's possible you'll have new position coaches AGAIN after this season.
It's hard for crappy franchises to get out of this rut.
Imagine the Giants had cleaned house after last season and hired the Jim Harbaugh/Joe Hortiz combo in January. How would we be feeling? The only argument against doing that was that Daboll/Schoen didn't deserve that fate after only two years.
Too much thought goes into what people deserve, and not enough goes into how we can improve.
That to me is too easy to say now as Harbaugh brings a lot of questions too. Yes, he is a very good coach and they are off to a great start but I am not sure you wipe the slate clean after last season considering how bad injuries killed two different position groups for us.
Daboll knows he is on thin ice (based on Connor's report) but, I am inclined to give him the season. The one he hasn't done is lose the team (we saw that happen with Shurmur and McAdoo and to some extent Judge).
The kicker piece was a VERY damning thing Sunday but, I do think he deserves to win and keep or lose and lose...
Both his reporting and opinions seem very straight forward and give a good perspective of how the team is viewed without any fandom and or hot take garbage.
I know the kicker business dominates the train of thought but there were critical mistakes that blew this game as well. The drop, the fumble, the 2 point pass Slayton couldn't bring down. And the missed sack, Pinnock penalties extending drives and lack of stops outside the redzone.
There is a slew of things that cost you a one score game you could do 3 hours on what ifs.
in addition to Phillips I do feel that Nubin is close to breaking out. I feel like this Defense is playing on its heels and not downhill enough and I just pray that will change as guys get comfortable.
If you caught it, I harped big time on the defense, plus talked about those two bad miscues on offense.
Wasn't trying to imply you didn't.
Just lamenting on how you could make a top 10 ways the Giants blew the game list.
That was as beatable a team you could face in the NFL.
I apologize if I'm misreading, but I take that as "Daboll didn't deserve to be fired after an injury-riddled 2023". I'm not even thinking about that; I'm saying only that Harbaugh is indisputably a better head coach than Daboll...and he was available (as were Belichick and Vrabel, also indisputably better coaches than Daboll).
So are we trying to get better, or are we wrapped up in what people deserve?
that the Beats were discussing how bad Gano looked in warm-ups and yet we trot him out there without a back-up and essentially lose the game when the 37 year old walks off limping!
Where is Mara????
Where is the accountability.
Daboll at the very least should have been shown the door! Schoen too. This is team is a train tumbling down the cliff and there is nothing from ownership????????
I said this back in December. If I were Mara I would have let Schoen and Daboll go and hired one of these three indisputably better options.
Bullshit - if you were Mara, you would have fired yourself out of spite!
If I were in Mara's shoes the Giants would be in a much better place. And that's not because I'm some kind of expert, it's because Mara has had a knack for choosing the worst possible path. A random number generator would have been a better CEO over this last 15 or so years.
Don't forget, Mara is also responsible for the stadium - a colossal failure.
RE: RE: RE: Also, this is not hindsight on my part
I said this back in December. If I were Mara I would have let Schoen and Daboll go and hired one of these three indisputably better options.
Bullshit - if you were Mara, you would have fired yourself out of spite!
If I were in Mara's shoes the Giants would be in a much better place. And that's not because I'm some kind of expert, it's because Mara has had a knack for choosing the worst possible path. A random number generator would have been a better CEO over this last 15 or so years.
Don't forget, Mara is also responsible for the stadium - a colossal failure.
I said this back in December. If I were Mara I would have let Schoen and Daboll go and hired one of these three indisputably better options.
Bullshit - if you were Mara, you would have fired yourself out of spite!
If I were in Mara's shoes the Giants would be in a much better place. And that's not because I'm some kind of expert, it's because Mara has had a knack for choosing the worst possible path. A random number generator would have been a better CEO over this last 15 or so years.
Don't forget, Mara is also responsible for the stadium - a colossal failure.
Like I said, you'd fire yourself.
Yeah, the Giants wouldn't stand for continuous improvement.
If the Giants are 0-8 or 1-7 after week eight (which is the 10/28/2024 Monday night game against Pittsburgh), they need to fire both Schoen and Daboll on 10/29/2024 (ironically the 95th anniversary of Black Tuesday) to ensure proper decisions are made at the trade deadline this year and effective planning is in place for the future BEFORE this season ends. And precisely to ensure that meaningless wins DO NOT happen this year! This silly "Giants Way" philosophy that major changes are not made in season makes zero sense.
And I agree with Sean. The back channel discussions with Belichick among others should be happening right now. The idea that Mara is waiting to see how many meaningless wins this team gets at the end of the season before making a judgment on the future leadership of this football team is lunacy.
If the Giants are 0-8 or 1-7 after week eight (which is the 10/28/2024 Monday night game against Pittsburgh), they need to fire both Schoen and Daboll on 10/29/2024 (ironically the 95th anniversary of Black Tuesday) to ensure proper decisions are made at the trade deadline this year and effective planning is in place for the future BEFORE this season ends. And precisely to ensure that meaningless wins DO NOT happen this year! This silly "Giants Way" philosophy that major changes are not made in season makes zero sense.
And I agree with Sean. The back channel discussions with Belichick among others should be happening right now. The idea that Mara is waiting to see how many meaningless wins this team gets at the end of the season before making a judgment on the future leadership of this football team is lunacy.
100%. I'd like to see Schoen trying to trade for Bryce Young today. Can he be better than Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito? Isn't Daboll supposed to be a QB whisperer?
Try to buy low and have a cheap cost controlled QB for a few years. What's the risk? Do something. Be proactive for once at QB.
I wouldn't expect the Giants to be proactive in any way
I can't, off the top of my head, recall them ever being proactive or innovative about anything. I think Connor nailed the vibe. All it's going to take is a few wins for them to run it back.
the note on Physicality from the jets and them saying the Giants aren't Physical, is a big deal IMO.
also the description of the feeding frenzy of the press after this game illustrates why the Giants are correct to vent all these people to see if they can handle the strain.
that seems to thinking instead of reacting - that will change.. We have an OL that is actually doing its job thank you Father Carmen.. We have a QB that is starting to look a little comfortable and finding his receivers.. We have added players of significance and are starting to show it. We have a coach that needs to remember he was coach of the year and lets win some games. Now we see if it comes together the next few games will be telling.
Looking a little comfortable finding one receiver? In one game? Against a league co-bottom feeder?
And, of all things, the coach needs to completely forget about the coach of the year award. Resting on one's single laurel, gets everyone but owners fired.
I did want to say that this is a wonderful podcast and we are
Eric, you always strike the right tone! When we're frustrated and/or angry; you are frustrated and angry.
When there are positives to point out, you do it.
You both put into word what we feel and you do it so well!
Thank you!
Your guests are marvelous too! If you don't have time to catch the whole podcast, listen to the part with Conor! Really, really good stuff! Thank you, Eric!!!
If the Giants are 0-8 or 1-7 after week eight (which is the 10/28/2024 Monday night game against Pittsburgh), they need to fire both Schoen and Daboll on 10/29/2024 (ironically the 95th anniversary of Black Tuesday) to ensure proper decisions are made at the trade deadline this year and effective planning is in place for the future BEFORE this season ends. And precisely to ensure that meaningless wins DO NOT happen this year! This silly "Giants Way" philosophy that major changes are not made in season makes zero sense.
And I agree with Sean. The back channel discussions with Belichick among others should be happening right now. The idea that Mara is waiting to see how many meaningless wins this team gets at the end of the season before making a judgment on the future leadership of this football team is lunacy.
100%. I'd like to see Schoen trying to trade for Bryce Young today. Can he be better than Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito? Isn't Daboll supposed to be a QB whisperer?
Try to buy low and have a cheap cost controlled QB for a few years. What's the risk? Do something. Be proactive for once at QB.
Eric, you always strike the right tone! When we're frustrated and/or angry; you are frustrated and angry.
When there are positives to point out, you do it.
You both put into word what we feel and you do it so well!
Thank you!
Your guests are marvelous too! If you don't have time to catch the whole podcast, listen to the part with Conor! Really, really good stuff! Thank you, Eric!!!
Appreciate it. Things will keep getting better. I am truly enjoying myself again.
Oh, so we take everything that Connor Hughes and the Jets as Gospel
Listen, I'm as fed up as everyone with where this team stands. But Hughes has been anti Giants for as long as I can remember andi certainly don't see the Jets being world beaters right now.
RE: Oh, so we take everything that Connor Hughes and the Jets as Gospel
He is still giving the company line that they had no choice, which is ridiculous. He mentioned that there was no one available who they could have gotten, so of course they had to give Jones that contract, even through Darnold, Minshew, and Baker have all been available.
Then the more egregious part is the line "they couldn't have gotten Okereke if they tagged Jones". Bullshit. Sure, they might have had to choose between Saquon and Okereke last year, but what about all of the players they couldn't sign this year, and might not be able to sign next year because of the Jones contract? The bottom line is by choosing to give him that contract, they committed 52 million more dollars to him than if they tagged him and then let him walk after the disaster last year. Even if you account for the cost of signing a bridge starter this year (about 10-12 million), it still nets the Giants 40 million in extra cap space over 2 years without sacrificing QB play (any of those guys would play as well or better than Jones has over the past 2 years). So instead of talking about how we wouldn't be able to sign Okereke last year if we tagged him, how about we talk about the fact that we don't have a CB2 this year because they signed him to that contract. Or how we don't have a DT2, or swing tackle, or competent backup QB this year because they signed him.
Yeah I'm just listening now and that is absolutely maddening. Baker Mayfield who is significantly better than Daniel Jones signed for 1 year and $4 million. This is just complete insanity and ignorance.
RE: Oh, so we take everything that Connor Hughes and the Jets as Gospel
Listen, I'm as fed up as everyone with where this team stands. But Hughes has been anti Giants for as long as I can remember andi certainly don't see the Jets being world beaters right now.
Connor worked for this site for a full year, back in Odell's first season.
RE: RE: RE: Also, this is not hindsight on my part
I said this back in December. If I were Mara I would have let Schoen and Daboll go and hired one of these three indisputably better options.
Bullshit - if you were Mara, you would have fired yourself out of spite!
If I were in Mara's shoes the Giants would be in a much better place. And that's not because I'm some kind of expert, it's because Mara has had a knack for choosing the worst possible path. A random number generator would have been a better CEO over this last 15 or so years.
Don't forget, Mara is also responsible for the stadium - a colossal failure.
one comment by Connor jumped out at me. i don’t know if he misspoke or what but he said “Daniel Jones is a good deep ball thrower” or something along those lines. i almost drove my car off the road.
"Organizational decision" to re-up Jones after 2022
watch Connor's expression after John asks whether the rumors that the Jones contract was all on Schoen and Daboll... His expression helps absolve Schoen and Daboll to a good degree.
There is zero chance in hell the Jones signing was not heavily influenced by ownership. Zero.
one comment by Connor jumped out at me. i don’t know if he misspoke or what but he said “Daniel Jones is a good deep ball thrower” or something along those lines. i almost drove my car off the road.
0-4 Sunday.
When has he hit a deep ball last, and one of consequence?
1. Surprised Connor and the fellas didn’t mention Ojulari as possible trade bait. He’s not that far removed from the draft, so a lot of teams did plenty of work on him him and surely think they could make something out of him. Maybe that he just hasn’t had the right coaching or motivation with the Giants. Young pass rushers (ones who have flashed talent like AO) don’t grow on trees, either.
2. That line about Jones winning 11 games for the Eagles made me laugh out loud. Was he kidding?!
3. John must be the friendliest podcast host I’ve ever heard in my life. Every time Eric gets out of line, John. always says “no, no, no, no…you’re good!”
4. Y’all are crushing it. Bravo!
#1- the Gano decision was so bad and obvious that Hughes and Duggan are using binoculars in warmups to scout his injury and noticed he didn’t look good and needed his groin wrapped
#2- he clearly states the Giants “defense “ of having to sign Jones for 4/160 instead of a 1/32 tag is that they “couldn’t have rounded out the roster” specifically meaning the signing of Okereke
How can you think if commiting so much cap space to the most important position by leveraging it with the signing of a solid if unspectacular Inside Linebacker?
This is just absolutely ridiculous and incompetent decision making coming from Schoen/Daboll
Just where is the long term strategic thinking?
RE: Interesting hearing the Jets' assessment on Jones
According to our CEO, we have an established franchise QB on a good contract and two of the most respected football personnel evaluators in the league in Chris and Tim. It's hard to imagine a better landing spot.
RE: Interesting hearing the Jets' assessment on Jones
The kicker was a dumb move - but defense lost that game.
Hughes said the thing about Jones that everyone forgets - lack of options, showed some ability, and had a nothing to work with especially OLine. Is he the answer - wouldn't bet on it. But....
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To be 0-2 and look so bad week one and so stupid in week 2 is even more disappointing. The fact that Dallas and Philly could be slipping will actually work even more against Daboll and possibly Schoen if the Giants flat out fall apart the rest of this season.
Good to hear about the Oline, Nabers, & Burns at least.
Then the more egregious part is the line "they couldn't have gotten Okereke if they tagged Jones". Bullshit. Sure, they might have had to choose between Saquon and Okereke last year, but what about all of the players they couldn't sign this year, and might not be able to sign next year because of the Jones contract? The bottom line is by choosing to give him that contract, they committed 52 million more dollars to him than if they tagged him and then let him walk after the disaster last year. Even if you account for the cost of signing a bridge starter this year (about 10-12 million), it still nets the Giants 40 million in extra cap space over 2 years without sacrificing QB play (any of those guys would play as well or better than Jones has over the past 2 years). So instead of talking about how we wouldn't be able to sign Okereke last year if we tagged him, how about we talk about the fact that we don't have a CB2 this year because they signed him to that contract. Or how we don't have a DT2, or swing tackle, or competent backup QB this year because they signed him.
I know the kicker business dominates the train of thought but there were critical mistakes that blew this game as well. The drop, the fumble, the 2 point pass Slayton couldn't bring down. And the missed sack, Pinnock penalties extending drives and lack of stops outside the redzone.
There is a slew of things that cost you a one score game you could do 3 hours on what ifs.
in addition to Phillips I do feel that Nubin is close to breaking out. I feel like this Defense is playing on its heels and not downhill enough and I just pray that will change as guys get comfortable.
Oof.
The Giants' standards for everything are so low.
Oof.
The Giants' standards for everything are so low.
Yeah, I mentioned you specifically with that one. I just don't believe that will be the case. If we are bad enough where we would need a 3 game win streak to get to 4 wins late then Jones is already sitting on the bench and Daboll's fate is sealed.
I know the kicker business dominates the train of thought but there were critical mistakes that blew this game as well. The drop, the fumble, the 2 point pass Slayton couldn't bring down. And the missed sack, Pinnock penalties extending drives and lack of stops outside the redzone.
There is a slew of things that cost you a one score game you could do 3 hours on what ifs.
in addition to Phillips I do feel that Nubin is close to breaking out. I feel like this Defense is playing on its heels and not downhill enough and I just pray that will change as guys get comfortable.
If you caught it, I harped big time on the defense, plus talked about those two bad miscues on offense.
What's so frustrating is the utter lack of strategic thinking from the Giants. The thought that some meaningless wins at the end of the season could impact decisions...
The decisions on Jones, Daboll, and Schoen should already be made! The back channel discussions to Belichick (if that's the target) should already have begun.
Too often we (fans) make comments and decisions that are easy to do in a vacuum but not so much if that were your job, your responsibility.
Dallas has a tough game against an 0-2 Ravens team that NEEDS to win in a very tough AFC. This game will be physical and taxing and Dallas didn't look good against New Orleans- at home.
If Dallas loses and suffers any physical losses they will be coming to NY on a two game losing streak and hurting. The Giants if they somehow beat Cleveland would be facing the Boys at home with the same record. (again, just playing scenarios)..
The league is far more "even" than most want to admit. Right now Daboll is coaching for his job and Schoen isn't that far behind.
Too often we (fans) make comments and decisions that are easy to do in a vacuum but not so much if that were your job, your responsibility.
Dallas has a tough game against an 0-2 Ravens team that NEEDS to win in a very tough AFC. This game will be physical and taxing and Dallas didn't look good against New Orleans- at home.
If Dallas loses and suffers any physical losses they will be coming to NY on a two game losing streak and hurting. The Giants if they somehow beat Cleveland would be facing the Boys at home with the same record. (again, just playing scenarios)..
The league is far more "even" than most want to admit. Right now Daboll is coaching for his job and Schoen isn't that far behind.
This isn't about the Giants' place in the standings, though. Schoen and Daboll have shown themselves to be incompetent. You're right that the league is right - it's designed to be that way - but that doesn't mean Schoen and Daboll are good at their jobs.
We should expect better. Much better. The expectation coming into the season should have been 10 wins and the playoffs. Instead we're hearing from someone who'd know that 7 wins is the actual number. That is so sad.
I get that but at the same time, you could say that about the 2011 team that struggled mightily most of the year. if the league is less the Giants need to be more (and still know you have to change things next year)..
I am not sold that these guys can turn it around, even in a league with lots of also rans BUT, quite frankly, you have a kicker and we win that game Sunday. (Forgetting all of the other things defensively that needed fixing).
We are dealing with a new DC now which looks bad. The OL is playing better with a new coach, but we are potentially looking at another new OL coach next year.
Schoen brings in Wink players only for Wink to leave.
This is how bad teams stay bad.
jvm said it and he's right. It's on Daboll that these coaches aren't working. They overhauled a huge part of the coaching staff. As Terps have said, if a change was possible then it should just have happened after last season. Because now it's possible you'll have new position coaches AGAIN after this season.
It's hard for crappy franchises to get out of this rut.
We are dealing with a new DC now which looks bad. The OL is playing better with a new coach, but we are potentially looking at another new OL coach next year.
Schoen brings in Wink players only for Wink to leave.
This is how bad teams stay bad.
jvm said it and he's right. It's on Daboll that these coaches aren't working. They overhauled a huge part of the coaching staff. As Terps have said, if a change was possible then it should just have happened after last season. Because now it's possible you'll have new position coaches AGAIN after this season.
It's hard for crappy franchises to get out of this rut.
Imagine the Giants had cleaned house after last season and hired the Jim Harbaugh/Joe Hortiz combo in January. How would we be feeling? The only argument against doing that was that Daboll/Schoen didn't deserve that fate after only two years.
Too much thought goes into what people deserve, and not enough goes into how we can improve.
Quote:
Resetting every 2-3 years makes it difficult for any kind of cohesion. Especially with the OL.
We are dealing with a new DC now which looks bad. The OL is playing better with a new coach, but we are potentially looking at another new OL coach next year.
Schoen brings in Wink players only for Wink to leave.
This is how bad teams stay bad.
jvm said it and he's right. It's on Daboll that these coaches aren't working. They overhauled a huge part of the coaching staff. As Terps have said, if a change was possible then it should just have happened after last season. Because now it's possible you'll have new position coaches AGAIN after this season.
It's hard for crappy franchises to get out of this rut.
Imagine the Giants had cleaned house after last season and hired the Jim Harbaugh/Joe Hortiz combo in January. How would we be feeling? The only argument against doing that was that Daboll/Schoen didn't deserve that fate after only two years.
Too much thought goes into what people deserve, and not enough goes into how we can improve.
That to me is too easy to say now as Harbaugh brings a lot of questions too. Yes, he is a very good coach and they are off to a great start but I am not sure you wipe the slate clean after last season considering how bad injuries killed two different position groups for us.
Daboll knows he is on thin ice (based on Connor's report) but, I am inclined to give him the season. The one he hasn't done is lose the team (we saw that happen with Shurmur and McAdoo and to some extent Judge).
The kicker piece was a VERY damning thing Sunday but, I do think he deserves to win and keep or lose and lose...
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Both his reporting and opinions seem very straight forward and give a good perspective of how the team is viewed without any fandom and or hot take garbage.
I know the kicker business dominates the train of thought but there were critical mistakes that blew this game as well. The drop, the fumble, the 2 point pass Slayton couldn't bring down. And the missed sack, Pinnock penalties extending drives and lack of stops outside the redzone.
There is a slew of things that cost you a one score game you could do 3 hours on what ifs.
in addition to Phillips I do feel that Nubin is close to breaking out. I feel like this Defense is playing on its heels and not downhill enough and I just pray that will change as guys get comfortable.
If you caught it, I harped big time on the defense, plus talked about those two bad miscues on offense.
Just lamenting on how you could make a top 10 ways the Giants blew the game list.
That was as beatable a team you could face in the NFL.
Both Dallas & Philly are 1-1 with head coaches on very thin ice. Belichick may have his pick.
I get the concern over Belichick's age, but if you want him it's not a given he'll want to even come here. Those conversations need to happen asap.
So are we trying to get better, or are we wrapped up in what people deserve?
Both Dallas & Philly are 1-1 with head coaches on very thin ice. Belichick may have his pick.
I get the concern over Belichick's age, but if you want him it's not a given he'll want to even come here. Those conversations need to happen asap.
They should be happening behind the scenes.
Bullshit - if you were Mara, you would have fired yourself out of spite!
Where is Mara????
Where is the accountability.
Daboll at the very least should have been shown the door! Schoen too. This is team is a train tumbling down the cliff and there is nothing from ownership????????
I am blown away by this.
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I said this back in December. If I were Mara I would have let Schoen and Daboll go and hired one of these three indisputably better options.
Bullshit - if you were Mara, you would have fired yourself out of spite!
If I were in Mara's shoes the Giants would be in a much better place. And that's not because I'm some kind of expert, it's because Mara has had a knack for choosing the worst possible path. A random number generator would have been a better CEO over this last 15 or so years.
Don't forget, Mara is also responsible for the stadium - a colossal failure.
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In comment 16614136 Go Terps said:
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I said this back in December. If I were Mara I would have let Schoen and Daboll go and hired one of these three indisputably better options.
Bullshit - if you were Mara, you would have fired yourself out of spite!
If I were in Mara's shoes the Giants would be in a much better place.
BOLD!
I would love to see this on many levels.
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In comment 16614136 Go Terps said:
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I said this back in December. If I were Mara I would have let Schoen and Daboll go and hired one of these three indisputably better options.
Bullshit - if you were Mara, you would have fired yourself out of spite!
If I were in Mara's shoes the Giants would be in a much better place. And that's not because I'm some kind of expert, it's because Mara has had a knack for choosing the worst possible path. A random number generator would have been a better CEO over this last 15 or so years.
Don't forget, Mara is also responsible for the stadium - a colossal failure.
Like I said, you'd fire yourself.
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In comment 16614182 section125 said:
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In comment 16614136 Go Terps said:
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I said this back in December. If I were Mara I would have let Schoen and Daboll go and hired one of these three indisputably better options.
Bullshit - if you were Mara, you would have fired yourself out of spite!
If I were in Mara's shoes the Giants would be in a much better place. And that's not because I'm some kind of expert, it's because Mara has had a knack for choosing the worst possible path. A random number generator would have been a better CEO over this last 15 or so years.
Don't forget, Mara is also responsible for the stadium - a colossal failure.
Like I said, you'd fire yourself.
Yeah, the Giants wouldn't stand for continuous improvement.
And I agree with Sean. The back channel discussions with Belichick among others should be happening right now. The idea that Mara is waiting to see how many meaningless wins this team gets at the end of the season before making a judgment on the future leadership of this football team is lunacy.
And I agree with Sean. The back channel discussions with Belichick among others should be happening right now. The idea that Mara is waiting to see how many meaningless wins this team gets at the end of the season before making a judgment on the future leadership of this football team is lunacy.
100%. I'd like to see Schoen trying to trade for Bryce Young today. Can he be better than Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito? Isn't Daboll supposed to be a QB whisperer?
Try to buy low and have a cheap cost controlled QB for a few years. What's the risk? Do something. Be proactive for once at QB.
also the description of the feeding frenzy of the press after this game illustrates why the Giants are correct to vent all these people to see if they can handle the strain.
And, of all things, the coach needs to completely forget about the coach of the year award. Resting on one's single laurel, gets everyone but owners fired.
Eric, you always strike the right tone! When we're frustrated and/or angry; you are frustrated and angry.
When there are positives to point out, you do it.
You both put into word what we feel and you do it so well!
Thank you!
Your guests are marvelous too! If you don't have time to catch the whole podcast, listen to the part with Conor! Really, really good stuff! Thank you, Eric!!!
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If the Giants are 0-8 or 1-7 after week eight (which is the 10/28/2024 Monday night game against Pittsburgh), they need to fire both Schoen and Daboll on 10/29/2024 (ironically the 95th anniversary of Black Tuesday) to ensure proper decisions are made at the trade deadline this year and effective planning is in place for the future BEFORE this season ends. And precisely to ensure that meaningless wins DO NOT happen this year! This silly "Giants Way" philosophy that major changes are not made in season makes zero sense.
And I agree with Sean. The back channel discussions with Belichick among others should be happening right now. The idea that Mara is waiting to see how many meaningless wins this team gets at the end of the season before making a judgment on the future leadership of this football team is lunacy.
100%. I'd like to see Schoen trying to trade for Bryce Young today. Can he be better than Drew Lock or Tommy DeVito? Isn't Daboll supposed to be a QB whisperer?
Try to buy low and have a cheap cost controlled QB for a few years. What's the risk? Do something. Be proactive for once at QB.
I don't think he's for sale.
But, maybe we should confirm with Terps.
Please hold............
I don't think he's for sale.
But, maybe we should confirm with Terps.
Please hold............
You wish. I'm not moving back to Jersey anyway.
And Belichick doing both jobs sounds like a recipe for disaster, but what else is new with the Giants.
Eric, you always strike the right tone! When we're frustrated and/or angry; you are frustrated and angry.
When there are positives to point out, you do it.
You both put into word what we feel and you do it so well!
Thank you!
Your guests are marvelous too! If you don't have time to catch the whole podcast, listen to the part with Conor! Really, really good stuff! Thank you, Eric!!!
Appreciate it. Things will keep getting better. I am truly enjoying myself again.
Huh?
Then the more egregious part is the line "they couldn't have gotten Okereke if they tagged Jones". Bullshit. Sure, they might have had to choose between Saquon and Okereke last year, but what about all of the players they couldn't sign this year, and might not be able to sign next year because of the Jones contract? The bottom line is by choosing to give him that contract, they committed 52 million more dollars to him than if they tagged him and then let him walk after the disaster last year. Even if you account for the cost of signing a bridge starter this year (about 10-12 million), it still nets the Giants 40 million in extra cap space over 2 years without sacrificing QB play (any of those guys would play as well or better than Jones has over the past 2 years). So instead of talking about how we wouldn't be able to sign Okereke last year if we tagged him, how about we talk about the fact that we don't have a CB2 this year because they signed him to that contract. Or how we don't have a DT2, or swing tackle, or competent backup QB this year because they signed him.
Yeah I'm just listening now and that is absolutely maddening. Baker Mayfield who is significantly better than Daniel Jones signed for 1 year and $4 million. This is just complete insanity and ignorance.
Connor worked for this site for a full year, back in Odell's first season.
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In comment 16614136 Go Terps said:
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I said this back in December. If I were Mara I would have let Schoen and Daboll go and hired one of these three indisputably better options.
Bullshit - if you were Mara, you would have fired yourself out of spite!
If I were in Mara's shoes the Giants would be in a much better place. And that's not because I'm some kind of expert, it's because Mara has had a knack for choosing the worst possible path. A random number generator would have been a better CEO over this last 15 or so years.
Don't forget, Mara is also responsible for the stadium - a colossal failure.
I saw what you did there.
one comment by Connor jumped out at me. i don’t know if he misspoke or what but he said “Daniel Jones is a good deep ball thrower” or something along those lines. i almost drove my car off the road.
There is zero chance in hell the Jones signing was not heavily influenced by ownership. Zero.
one comment by Connor jumped out at me. i don’t know if he misspoke or what but he said “Daniel Jones is a good deep ball thrower” or something along those lines. i almost drove my car off the road.
0-4 Sunday.
When has he hit a deep ball last, and one of consequence?
2. That line about Jones winning 11 games for the Eagles made me laugh out loud. Was he kidding?!
3. John must be the friendliest podcast host I’ve ever heard in my life. Every time Eric gets out of line, John. always says “no, no, no, no…you’re good!”
4. Y’all are crushing it. Bravo!
No surprise Daboll is running a "just throw to Nabers" offense.
#2- he clearly states the Giants “defense “ of having to sign Jones for 4/160 instead of a 1/32 tag is that they “couldn’t have rounded out the roster” specifically meaning the signing of Okereke
How can you think if commiting so much cap space to the most important position by leveraging it with the signing of a solid if unspectacular Inside Linebacker?
This is just absolutely ridiculous and incompetent decision making coming from Schoen/Daboll
Just where is the long term strategic thinking?
I'm a great driver, as long as I don't have to turn and can just keep driving in a straight line.
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Which is that he can be ok if you don't ask him to do post-snap reading of defenses.
I'm a great driver, as long as I don't have to turn and can just keep driving in a straight line.
Our QB is good, as long as he doesn't need to understand what he is seeing, make decisions or think.
Thank you Joe and Brian. Good job not letting a guy like that get away in free agency.
No surprise Daboll is running a "just throw to Nabers" offense.
Citation Daniel Jones post game comments
“Dabs told me what he wanted, and like always I followed the plan”
Vrabel or Belichick are strong options- but they are going to have a lot of suitors. Will the Giants be all that attractive?
No surprise Daboll is running a "just throw to Nabers" offense.
is there a more damning "kiss of death" than the Jets thinking that DJ is a good quarterback?
what more evidence do you need MARA!?!?!?
The kicker was a dumb move - but defense lost that game.
Hughes said the thing about Jones that everyone forgets - lack of options, showed some ability, and had a nothing to work with especially OLine. Is he the answer - wouldn't bet on it. But....
Would like to see a stat on missed tackles.