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Jones history on deep passes

gogiants : 9/30/2024 9:16 pm
Here is a table of Daniel Jones’ deep passing history by season based on Pro Football Reference definition of deep passes. A per game number is shown to the right of each table.



Also included are the same for 2024 of a sample quarterbacks. I picked the first three based on PFN’s ranking of quarterbacks from 2023 to week 4 this year. I picked the top, middle and bottom ranked quarterbacks. Then added in Jayden Daniels and Patrick Mahomes as two who supposedly have strong arms.

Also included on the right is a list of the last six seasons of total attempted and completed deep passes across the league. Attempts per game, completions per game averages, as well as an average completion percentage on deep passes.

I just wanted to see the data and did not have an agenda in mind. Some things that stand out are
1. Jones had a good completion percentage on deep passes for his first four seasons.
2. After a big rookie season his deep attempts dropped off drastically.
3. His deep attempts are back up this year close to the league average.
4. Though his 30% completion percentage is low this year it compares not far off from Josh Allen (top QB by PFN) and Jared Goff (middle QB by PFN).
5. Even though Mahomes has a great completion percentage this year his attempts are way low and his interception percent is bad.

My gut takeaway is that it is still early this year. Jones is coming back from a serious injury and has only been playing 4 games in over a year. It is encouraging that more deep attempts are being made. This could be due to better O-Line protection and better receiving talent. Jones has played well against the Cowboys and Washington. I would not consider him the reason we lost those games. Sure he did not win those games either. The other two games not so but good enough to come out with a win in one of them. The fact that some deep misses were overthrows at least would tend to allay fears that his arm strength is shot. Keep taking those deep shots and lets go Giants!
Jesus Christ.  
rsjem1979 : 9/30/2024 9:18 pm : link
.
RE: Jesus Christ.  
knowledgetimmons : 9/30/2024 9:27 pm : link
In comment 16632308 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
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Fuck off retard. This is an interesting and well made thread.say something constructive before millering this thread. Clown.
RE: RE: Jesus Christ.  
eric2425ny : 9/30/2024 9:51 pm : link
In comment 16632314 knowledgetimmons said:
Quote:
In comment 16632308 rsjem1979 said:


Quote:


.



Fuck off retard. This is an interesting and well made thread.say something constructive before millering this thread. Clown.


That escalated quickly lol.
Jones completed a deep pass this year  
HardTruth : 9/30/2024 9:53 pm : link
I guess you do learn something new everyday
RE: RE: Jesus Christ.  
rsjem1979 : 9/30/2024 9:57 pm : link
In comment 16632314 knowledgetimmons said:
Quote:
In comment 16632308 rsjem1979 said:


Quote:


.



Fuck off retard. This is an interesting and well made thread.say something constructive before millering this thread. Clown.


Feel better?
Thanks for the time and effort  
mako J : 9/30/2024 10:03 pm : link
Interesting data. Are you willing to update this every quarter of the season and share again?
Same as my recollection.  
BigBlueNH : 9/30/2024 10:06 pm : link
I thought Jones threw a pretty good deep ball his first few seasons. The last 2 seasons he has been horrific. ???
RE: Thanks for the time and effort  
gogiants : 9/30/2024 10:06 pm : link
In comment 16632341 mako J said:
Quote:
Interesting data. Are you willing to update this every quarter of the season and share again?


Thanks. Yes I would update per quarter and share.
I would extend him now…  
IchabodGiant : 9/30/2024 10:09 pm : link
5 years minimum.
RE: I would extend him now…  
Wiggy : 9/30/2024 10:15 pm : link
In comment 16632347 IchabodGiant said:
Quote:
5 years minimum.
whoa whoa, don’t forget an ownership stake. guy has earned it
That was a lot of work and thanks  
HomerJones45 : 9/30/2024 10:15 pm : link
I disagree that his completion percentage is not far off Allen. 9% may not seem like much but that does not mean it isn't significant.

There are also the issues concerning the timing of his throws, where he puts the ball and what he sees, or doesn't see, on the field which would not necessarily be reflected in the numbers. For example, if there is a play to be made and he checks down, that is not a long pass but it is a missed opportunity.

Good work and thanks again.
Btw, what consititues a "deep pass"?  
HomerJones45 : 9/30/2024 10:23 pm : link
how was it defined?
RE: Btw, what consititues a  
gogiants : 9/30/2024 10:33 pm : link
In comment 16632358 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
how was it defined?


I did not find on the site a definition. However in the data the yards gained went only as low as 16 yards. maybe they have a definition somewhere and it is not dependent on yards gained with the problem of yac. But it looks like it is at least 16 yards.
I don’t think much of Jones as our QB  
Metnut : 9/30/2024 10:38 pm : link
but OP laid out his argument with facts and made some points worth thinking about. Many of the responses here were flat out rude and uncalled for.
Like JS said on Hard Knocks…  
thrunthrublue : 9/30/2024 10:43 pm : link
Giants paying Jones a hundred and fourty million, to hand the ball off….
RE: RE: Btw, what consititues a  
rsjem1979 : 9/30/2024 11:07 pm : link
In comment 16632366 gogiants said:
Quote:
In comment 16632358 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


how was it defined?



I did not find on the site a definition. However in the data the yards gained went only as low as 16 yards. maybe they have a definition somewhere and it is not dependent on yards gained with the problem of yac. But it looks like it is at least 16 yards.



Targets - pass targets, as given in the play-by-play account of the game. Note that pass locations are defined as long (15 or more yards) or short (less than 15 yards
Link - ( New Window )
Not sure I understand what I am looking at  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/30/2024 11:12 pm : link
...Does this say that in Joe Judge's first year, with Jason Garret as OC, Jones threw more deep passes (37) with a higher completion % (56.9%) than any other year, and no INTs on deep passes that year?

I don't recall that at all. I don't even see how that's possible.
RE: Not sure I understand what I am looking at  
outeiroj : 9/30/2024 11:20 pm : link
In comment 16632386 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...Does this say that in Joe Judge's first year, with Jason Garret as OC, Jones threw more deep passes (37) with a higher completion % (56.9%) than any other year, and no INTs on deep passes that year?

I don't recall that at all. I don't even see how that's possible.


No, that's not what it says simply put because Shurmur was the head coach in 2019, Judge was the HC in 2020
RE: RE: Not sure I understand what I am looking at  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/30/2024 11:22 pm : link
In comment 16632388 outeiroj said:
Quote:
In comment 16632386 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


...Does this say that in Joe Judge's first year, with Jason Garret as OC, Jones threw more deep passes (37) with a higher completion % (56.9%) than any other year, and no INTs on deep passes that year?

I don't recall that at all. I don't even see how that's possible.



No, that's not what it says simply put because Shurmur was the head coach in 2019, Judge was the HC in 2020


Look at the data under "2020" and tell me what it says
RE: RE: RE: Not sure I understand what I am looking at  
outeiroj : 9/30/2024 11:24 pm : link
In comment 16632389 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 16632388 outeiroj said:


Quote:


In comment 16632386 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


...Does this say that in Joe Judge's first year, with Jason Garret as OC, Jones threw more deep passes (37) with a higher completion % (56.9%) than any other year, and no INTs on deep passes that year?

I don't recall that at all. I don't even see how that's possible.



No, that's not what it says simply put because Shurmur was the head coach in 2019, Judge was the HC in 2020



Look at the data under "2020" and tell me what it says


I believe that shows he threw more in 2019 and completed more in 2020 for a higher %
Right, it says under Jason Garret, Jones had more deep completions  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/30/2024 11:31 pm : link
and a higher deep completion % than any other year, and with no INTs from deep passes. And that does not jibe with reality.

So I think the underlying data and whatever PFF is calling a "deep pass" is suspect.
Nice work  
AROCK1000 : 10/1/2024 12:28 am : link
He used to have a very high % of completed deep passes relative to the rest of the league.
Mahomes’ deep completion rate is unholy.  
cosmicj : 10/1/2024 12:56 am : link
Unholy.
...  
HitSquad : 10/1/2024 1:17 am : link
He'll get the deep ball timing back with more reps. He's a hard worker. At least the arm strength isn't an issue.
Arm Strength - ( New Window )
Keeping up with the Joneses  
Teletran1 : 10/1/2024 3:54 am : link
I'm not sure how it compares with the other QBs but many of the completions have been underthrown and poor passes.
This is good work BUT  
gary_from_chester : 10/1/2024 5:41 am : link
I hate stats, especially one that looks at a specific component without considering the complete picture. Does he throw his receivers open? Does he put the ball in a place that facilitates YAC? Does he fit throws into tight windows? Does he make big plays in key moments? Is he smart with the ball? Does he handle pressure?

It takes a lot to assess and evaluate a QB’s play. DJ is what he is - a bottom third starter IMO. He’s not a bum as some on this site paint him, he’s not a good QB who needs more support as others paint him - he’s just not good enough. I don’t need any more data points or isolated stats. His ceiling is mediocre and we know what his floor is. He’s been really bad at the deep shots this year too - not all incompletions are equal.
Nice effort gogiants  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/1/2024 6:21 am : link
Data was pretty limited when I looked into this. I was hoping to find where on the field passes were going to (l/r sideline, post) and then distance and down/distance of play.

He definitely has missed a few (and way off). I don't think it is an arm strength issue but do think internal pressure and over thinking could be in play.

QB play 1st almost quarter of ‘24  
RetroJint : 10/1/2024 6:55 am : link
The QB play has been good enough for the Giants to have won 3 games . That doesn’t mean he’s played at a high level . It just means he hasn’t screwed up in a big way. The Giants have too many guys like that . But that concept is for another discussion.

Jones has been short and wide on the deep throws . To be fair his wide receivers have been tits-on-the-bull worthless making adjustments to the throws. And, for the Hyatt worshippers , his best (only?) + route is the sideline squeeze . DeVito and Taylor are very good dropping that throw in . Jones is not.

What happened to Jones ? Hard to say exactly , but I just deal with the end product . He has lost arm strength . Maybe it’s from the serious neck injuries . That’s conjecture . And maybe Daboll’s route tree , coupled with some truly gruesome downfield wide receiver play, has contributed to this malaise .

The Giants aren’t good enough to methodically march down the field for three touchdowns and two field goals a game. They need explosive plays . They are not getting it in the running game, either by the backs or Jones . And the vertical passing game is claustrophobic . Robinson and Nabers will not hold up to the enormous payload of hits they are taking .
RE: QB play 1st almost quarter of ‘24  
chuckydee9 : 10/1/2024 7:54 am : link
In comment 16632444 RetroJint said:
Quote:
The QB play has been good enough for the Giants to have won 3 games . That doesn’t mean he’s played at a high level . It just means he hasn’t screwed up in a big way. The Giants have too many guys like that . But that concept is for another discussion.

Jones has been short and wide on the deep throws . To be fair his wide receivers have been tits-on-the-bull worthless making adjustments to the throws. And, for the Hyatt worshippers , his best (only?) + route is the sideline squeeze . DeVito and Taylor are very good dropping that throw in . Jones is not.

What happened to Jones ? Hard to say exactly , but I just deal with the end product . He has lost arm strength . Maybe it’s from the serious neck injuries . That’s conjecture . And maybe Daboll’s route tree , coupled with some truly gruesome downfield wide receiver play, has contributed to this malaise .

The Giants aren’t good enough to methodically march down the field for three touchdowns and two field goals a game. They need explosive plays . They are not getting it in the running game, either by the backs or Jones . And the vertical passing game is claustrophobic . Robinson and Nabers will not hold up to the enormous payload of hits they are taking .

Depends on how you define good enough to have won. He had missed multiple throws in the Cleveland game that would've I've the win and he couldn't complete one of those critical throws. The defense had to save him. Dallas game was his daily. His receivers were wife open on multiple occasions, his OL was great at pass blocking. Yet he couldn't muster 21 points. Not sure how we simply want to give him credit.
RE: RE: QB play 1st almost quarter of ‘24  
chuckydee9 : 10/1/2024 7:55 am : link
In comment 16632457 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
In comment 16632444 RetroJint said:


Quote:


The QB play has been good enough for the Giants to have won 3 games . That doesn’t mean he’s played at a high level . It just means he hasn’t screwed up in a big way. The Giants have too many guys like that . But that concept is for another discussion.

Jones has been short and wide on the deep throws . To be fair his wide receivers have been tits-on-the-bull worthless making adjustments to the throws. And, for the Hyatt worshippers , his best (only?) + route is the sideline squeeze . DeVito and Taylor are very good dropping that throw in . Jones is not.

What happened to Jones ? Hard to say exactly , but I just deal with the end product . He has lost arm strength . Maybe it’s from the serious neck injuries . That’s conjecture . And maybe Daboll’s route tree , coupled with some truly gruesome downfield wide receiver play, has contributed to this malaise .

The Giants aren’t good enough to methodically march down the field for three touchdowns and two field goals a game. They need explosive plays . They are not getting it in the running game, either by the backs or Jones . And the vertical passing game is claustrophobic . Robinson and Nabers will not hold up to the enormous payload of hits they are taking .


Depends on how you define good enough to have won. He had missed multiple throws in the Cleveland game that would've I've the win and he couldn't complete one of those critical throws. The defense had to save him. Dallas game was his daily. His receivers were wife open on multiple occasions, his OL was great at pass blocking. Yet he couldn't muster 21 points. Not sure how we simply want to give him credit.

Holy shit.. sorry about the post. Typing on phone is crap today..
Thanks for posting this.  
Section331 : 10/1/2024 8:18 am : link
I’m assuming deep passes are any over 20 yards in the air? These stats are very helpful, but you have to balance it with the eye test. The true “deep” passes are where Jones has been really bad at. There is a difference between a 20 yd pass and a 40-50 yard pass.

Jones isn’t just missing these, they are woefully short. That he’s been able to throw them in the past with some accuracy tells me there is either something physically wrong, or a problem with his mechanics. Given his neck injuries, I fear it may be the former.
Thank you for putting this together  
Biteymax22 : 10/1/2024 8:31 am : link
However I'd warn taking too much from an analysis like this. For starters, we're 4 games into the season and sample sizes are low and numbers can easily be skewed.

One reception either way (more or less) changes the number by 6% because we're working with such little data, so an instance like the play where Malik Nabers had 10+ yards of separation and was standing still against the Cowboys brings Jones to 20% rather than 13.6%, that's a large difference when viewing by percentage only.

To date, Jones' success on 20+ plays have all been to Nabers and all on plays where he's facing the QB. Jones has yet to complete a pass where he's leading the WR in a true "deep pass" situation.

While there is some hope from the past that Jones can get it together and start hitting these, the reality is that he's left a TON of yards on the ball by just outright missing open WR's running down the field. There have been plays in every game he couldn't connect on that would have influenced the game.
RE: Thank you for putting this together  
Biteymax22 : 10/1/2024 8:33 am : link
In comment 16632470 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
However I'd warn taking too much from an analysis like this. For starters, we're 4 games into the season and sample sizes are low and numbers can easily be skewed.

One reception either way (more or less) changes the number by 6% because we're working with such little data, so an instance like the play where Malik Nabers had 10+ yards of separation and was standing still against the Cowboys brings Jones to 20% rather than 13.6%, that's a large difference when viewing by percentage only.

To date, Jones' success on 20+ plays have all been to Nabers and all on plays where he's facing the QB. Jones has yet to complete a pass where he's leading the WR in a true "deep pass" situation.

While there is some hope from the past that Jones can get it together and start hitting these, the reality is that he's left a TON of yards on the ball by just outright missing open WR's running down the field. There have been plays in every game he couldn't connect on that would have influenced the game.


* yards on the field, not ball.... sorry
This is a reasonable thread idea  
Dave on the UWS : 10/1/2024 8:59 am : link
backed up by REAL data.
I'm in the camp that the two neck injuries have sapped enough arm strength that Jones' throwing motion (especially on deeper throws) has changed and not for the better. He was always a marginal starter, at best middle of the pack.
He's no longer even that.
RE: I don’t think much of Jones as our QB  
Mike from Ohio : 10/1/2024 9:56 am : link
In comment 16632371 Metnut said:
Quote:
but OP laid out his argument with facts and made some points worth thinking about. Many of the responses here were flat out rude and uncalled for.


And don't forget the immediate jump to a slur! That was done really nicely.

More of what you would expect from that poser.
In a lot of ways  
UberAlias : 10/1/2024 11:32 am : link
Deep throws can be a bit like 3pt shots in basketball. Also, overthrows can sometimes be tied to nerves. It's possible he'll start hitting on more of them. What's more concerning to me though is the depth of targets in general. It's frustrating that we seem to need 6-8 plays just to reach mid field. When you play that game, there just isn't any margin for error. An offsides or a drop can easily be drive ender.
RE: RE: I don’t think much of Jones as our QB  
knowledgetimmons : 10/1/2024 11:42 am : link
In comment 16632548 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 16632371 Metnut said:


Quote:


but OP laid out his argument with facts and made some points worth thinking about. Many of the responses here were flat out rude and uncalled for.



And don't forget the immediate jump to a slur! That was done really nicely.

More of what you would expect from that poser.


Means justify ends, Jesus Christ is a slur as well. I won't apologize for taking necessary steps to call out adversaries of thoughtful discourse. Alternatively, we could continue to have banal threads about the 89 ways DJ is the sole reason why NY is 1-3.

Mike, we don't need to hear you say the same things 25 times a day, but I applaud your perseverance.
I have been a Giants fan for 60 years  
Capt. : 10/1/2024 11:52 am : link
I like watching the games, but I don't have the time or desire to get this technical regarding the game.
That being said, I thought this was an interesting and well-done post. Thank you for your time and effort
Breakdown  
mako J : 10/1/2024 12:13 pm : link
6 completions:
2- Nabers
2 - Slayton
1 - Bellinger
1 - Johnson

Looking forward to seeing how these numbers evolve. Hoping for more deep crossers and TE seams. Need to get the run game going because a lot of times these plays come off play action.
RE: RE: RE: I don’t think much of Jones as our QB  
Scooter185 : 10/1/2024 12:32 pm : link
In comment 16632683 knowledgetimmons said:
Quote:
In comment 16632548 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


In comment 16632371 Metnut said:


Quote:


but OP laid out his argument with facts and made some points worth thinking about. Many of the responses here were flat out rude and uncalled for.



And don't forget the immediate jump to a slur! That was done really nicely.

More of what you would expect from that poser.



Means justify ends, Jesus Christ is a slur as well. I won't apologize for taking necessary steps to call out adversaries of thoughtful discourse. Alternatively, we could continue to have banal threads about the 89 ways DJ is the sole reason why NY is 1-3.

Mike, we don't need to hear you say the same things 25 times a day, but I applaud your perseverance.


The ironic thing is that it's not posts like Rsjems that derail threads, it's the vitriolic replies like yours. If you had just ignored it and replied to the OP, Mike wouldn't have had anything to say.

Best Deep Pass I Ever Saw Jones Throw  
LTIsTheGreatest : 10/1/2024 12:38 pm : link
was in the 2022 season opener in Tennesee when he hit Sterling Shepard with a long TD pass
Daniel Jones's Best Passes  
DC Gmen Fan : 10/1/2024 12:45 pm : link
I hardly remember most of these lol.
DJ Deep passes - ( New Window )
RE: Daniel Jones's Best Passes  
rsjem1979 : 10/1/2024 12:55 pm : link
In comment 16632745 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
I hardly remember most of these lol. DJ Deep passes - ( New Window )


Honestly it's a pretty sad collection of a 6th-year NFL QB's best career throws.
I don’t think this data is accurate by the OP  
HardTruth : 10/1/2024 1:22 pm : link
On Jones deep passes

This seems like the correct stat

‘According to The 33rd Team’s stats, Jones is 2 of 13 for 67 yards and one interception on deep passes of 20+ attempted air yards, a -0.03 EPA, and a 16.5 passer rating.’


What standard was used for this “deep pass” numbers by the OP?
RE: Daniel Jones's Best Passes  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/1/2024 1:29 pm : link
In comment 16632745 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
I hardly remember most of these lol. DJ Deep passes - ( New Window )


Lots of passes to Golden Tate, weird.
RE: I don’t think this data is accurate by the OP  
gogiants : 10/1/2024 1:39 pm : link
In comment 16632787 HardTruth said:
Quote:
On Jones deep passes

This seems like the correct stat

‘According to The 33rd Team’s stats, Jones is 2 of 13 for 67 yards and one interception on deep passes of 20+ attempted air yards, a -0.03 EPA, and a 16.5 passer rating.’


What standard was used for this “deep pass” numbers by the OP?


deep passes arer defined as 15 yards or more.
RE: RE: I don’t think this data is accurate by the OP  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/1/2024 1:59 pm : link
In comment 16632804 gogiants said:
Quote:
In comment 16632787 HardTruth said:


Quote:


On Jones deep passes

This seems like the correct stat

‘According to The 33rd Team’s stats, Jones is 2 of 13 for 67 yards and one interception on deep passes of 20+ attempted air yards, a -0.03 EPA, and a 16.5 passer rating.’


What standard was used for this “deep pass” numbers by the OP?



deep passes arer defined as 15 yards or more.


Is that air yards or does it include YAC?
How Low Have The Giants Fallen, If This is Important To Analyze?  
JoeDonLooney : 10/1/2024 2:10 pm : link
How many TDs has Jones thrown this year? How many victories in 4 games against average to weak teams? What is Jones' record over his career? Is Jones being paid more than $40 million per year for these type of results?

STOP IT! Enough of these analyses. The Giants have no future with Jones. We fans need no analysis by anyone, including you, to explain Johns' performance.

HE STINKS! Move on. Pray God the Giants draft a franchise QB in '25.
 
christian : 10/1/2024 2:38 pm : link
Its most certainly something the Giants are considering as they evaluate his play.

Jones is middle of the pack in the NFL in total pass yards (14th, 881 yards). And he's also middle of the pack (15th, 416) in completed air yards.

I'm a founding member of the DJHC, but he's having a better season passing the ball than most fans are giving him credit for and it's not a performance close to getting him benched.

The Giants problem is primarily the amount of drops they've had and the amount of poor deep throws Jones has made. But this isn't tragedy level quarterback play.
RE: …  
Eric on Li : 10/1/2024 2:42 pm : link
In comment 16632847 christian said:
Quote:
Its most certainly something the Giants are considering as they evaluate his play.

Jones is middle of the pack in the NFL in total pass yards (14th, 881 yards). And he's also middle of the pack (15th, 416) in completed air yards.

I'm a founding member of the DJHC, but he's having a better season passing the ball than most fans are giving him credit for and it's not a performance close to getting him benched.

The Giants problem is primarily the amount of drops they've had and the amount of poor deep throws Jones has made. But this isn't tragedy level quarterback play.


this is exactly how i see it, only thing id add is that the trend has been up each week with the exception of the missed deep balls vs dallas which were glaring.

the inconsistent running game (and fumbles) have also made them one dimensional and put more pressure on the passing game.

that they are 1-3 despite jones playing good on his scale is not a particularly good endorsement of anything except regime change.
Now I have seen it all  
Mike from Ohio : 10/1/2024 2:51 pm : link
Eric on LI and christian in agreement on a topic related to the Giants.
RE: Now I have seen it all  
Eric on Li : 10/1/2024 3:01 pm : link
In comment 16632864 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Eric on LI and christian in agreement on a topic related to the Giants.


it used to happen all the time until the last several months. when his contrarian instincts push away from conventional wisdom it's occasionally into the arms of my charts and graphs.
RE: RE: RE: I don’t think this data is accurate by the OP  
gogiants : 10/1/2024 3:05 pm : link
In comment 16632818 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
In comment 16632804 gogiants said:
Quote:
In comment 16632787 HardTruth said:
Quote:
On Jones deep passes

This seems like the correct stat

‘According to The 33rd Team’s stats, Jones is 2 of 13 for 67 yards and one interception on deep passes of 20+ attempted air yards, a -0.03 EPA, and a 16.5 passer rating.’


What standard was used for this “deep pass” numbers by the OP?



deep passes arer defined as 15 yards or more.



Is that air yards or does it include YAC?


the definition of a "Deep" pass is 15+ air yards.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don’t think this data is accurate by the OP  
gogiants : 10/1/2024 3:09 pm : link
In comment 16632889 gogiants said:
Quote:
In comment 16632818 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


In comment 16632804 gogiants said:
Quote:
In comment 16632787 HardTruth said:
Quote:
On Jones deep passes

This seems like the correct stat

‘According to The 33rd Team’s stats, Jones is 2 of 13 for 67 yards and one interception on deep passes of 20+ attempted air yards, a -0.03 EPA, and a 16.5 passer rating.’


What standard was used for this “deep pass” numbers by the OP?



deep passes arer defined as 15 yards or more.



Is that air yards or does it include YAC?



the definition of a "Deep" pass is 15+ air yards.


if you run the query the deep pass is defined as 15+ air yards. In the details section on the plays they show the total yards gained on the play

https://stathead.com/tiny/xAUhl - ( New Window )
 
christian : 10/1/2024 3:16 pm : link
Gogiants -- just FYI a lot of the fantasy and stat sites define a deep pass as 20+ a/yards -- but personally I think 15 is plenty far :)
 
christian : 10/1/2024 3:19 pm : link
Eric, Mike, if you want to witness my head explode -- I actually also agree with Lines of Scrimmage that the Giants need more rushing horse power from their backs. Especially if this what to expect from Jones in the run game.
don't let  
The Jake : 10/1/2024 3:27 pm : link
one slice of data obscure what you can see with your own eyes.

I take no pride in saying this - but I feel very confident that a number of BBIers could have made a better throw to Darius Slayton on the offsides/blown play from last week than Daniel Jones did.

That the head coach, GM, and owner don't view that as a five alarm fire continues to be mind boggling, week in and week out.
and for what it's worth  
The Jake : 10/1/2024 3:28 pm : link
I couldn't care less about the "why" behind it.

neck injury, hearing footsteps, got worse against the pass rush, has the yips, who fucking cares?

the guy can only complete short passes.

that's a big fucking problem!
And right on cue a bot returns  
mako J : 10/1/2024 4:08 pm : link
To mar a productive thread.
RE: Btw, what consititues a  
MNP70 : 10/1/2024 4:09 pm : link
In comment 16632358 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
how was it defined?


Beginning in 2006, the NFL classified every pass attempt as either 'short' or 'deep,' where deep means anything past 15 yards. About 19% of pass attempts are classified as deep
RE: …  
Eric on Li : 10/1/2024 4:34 pm : link
In comment 16632909 christian said:
Quote:
Eric, Mike, if you want to witness my head explode -- I actually also agree with Lines of Scrimmage that the Giants need more rushing horse power from their backs. Especially if this what to expect from Jones in the run game.


🙃
RE: RE: …  
flyswimwalk : 10/1/2024 5:46 pm : link
Agreed. So far, Jones' performance has been average or okay. He hasn’t led the team to wins despite certain challenges, but he has put them in a position to win—other factors just haven’t clicked yet. That’s what separates a top QB from an average one.

Consider this scenario, assuming everything else stayed the same except:
- If we had an average kicker, like every other team, in the Commanders game, we would’ve won.
- If we had just an average running game in the Cowboys game—not the worst in the league—we would’ve won.

That would put us at 3-1 with the same QB play. No miracles from a kicker or an unstoppable running game needed. Wouldn’t the narrative around Jones be much different then? But his peromance were the same in both scenarios.

In comment 16632852 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 16632847 christian said:


Quote:


Its most certainly something the Giants are considering as they evaluate his play.

Jones is middle of the pack in the NFL in total pass yards (14th, 881 yards). And he's also middle of the pack (15th, 416) in completed air yards.

I'm a founding member of the DJHC, but he's having a better season passing the ball than most fans are giving him credit for and it's not a performance close to getting him benched.

The Giants problem is primarily the amount of drops they've had and the amount of poor deep throws Jones has made. But this isn't tragedy level quarterback play.



this is exactly how i see it, only thing id add is that the trend has been up each week with the exception of the missed deep balls vs dallas which were glaring.

the inconsistent running game (and fumbles) have also made them one dimensional and put more pressure on the passing game.

that they are 1-3 despite jones playing good on his scale is not a particularly good endorsement of anything except regime change.
This is just then redefining deep pass  
HardTruth : 10/2/2024 7:03 am : link
Who selected 15 yards?

And why 15 yards?

Because the standard has basically been 20+ yards and Jones is 2 for 14 with an INT on those

Is it just that by redefining it to 15 yds that Jones appears to be better at it?

Because as much as you want to spin this 15 yd stat into a “deep pass”, the fact is at 20+ yards his numbers are atrocious

Here is a simple Google query on it

People also ask
What does the NFL consider a deep pass?

Short: Throws where the target depth was between 0 and 9 yards.

Intermediate: Throws where the target depth was between 10 and 19 yards.

Deep: Throws where the target depth was at least 20 yards.
Let’s extrapolate this stat to show why Jones cant score  
HardTruth : 10/2/2024 7:33 am : link
So the data shows that Jones can throw the short pass (clearly) and seemingly based on this info he is adequate at the 15 yd pass (intermediate or “deep” as defined here)

But Jones is not good at all at the 20 yd pass

Well guess what the “red zone” is ? 20 yds

So Jones cant connect on a pass from outside the red zone, over 20 yards

And once we get in the red zone, he can throw the ball 0-15 yds alright but now the field has shrunk and the defenders arent spread out as much so he has 21 guys in front of him occupying that very small under 20 yard zone

This makes it immeasurably more difficult to complete the same pass

Hence Jones career long struggle with TD passes
As an example  
HardTruth : 10/2/2024 7:38 am : link
Jones threw 40 passes on Sunday

20 of his 20 completions were 6 yds or less in the air

Of his 40 passes, ZERO were actually in the end zone
Two pages in  
Blueworm : 10/2/2024 7:39 am : link
And the stats are wrong?
RE: RE: RE: …  
Eric on Li : 10/2/2024 9:07 am : link
In comment 16633062 flyswimwalk said:
Quote:
Agreed. So far, Jones' performance has been average or okay. He hasn’t led the team to wins despite certain challenges, but he has put them in a position to win—other factors just haven’t clicked yet. That’s what separates a top QB from an average one.

Consider this scenario, assuming everything else stayed the same except:
- If we had an average kicker, like every other team, in the Commanders game, we would’ve won.
- If we had just an average running game in the Cowboys game—not the worst in the league—we would’ve won.

That would put us at 3-1 with the same QB play. No miracles from a kicker or an unstoppable running game needed. Wouldn’t the narrative around Jones be much different then? But his peromance were the same in both scenarios.

In comment 16632852 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 16632847 christian said:


Quote:


Its most certainly something the Giants are considering as they evaluate his play.

Jones is middle of the pack in the NFL in total pass yards (14th, 881 yards). And he's also middle of the pack (15th, 416) in completed air yards.

I'm a founding member of the DJHC, but he's having a better season passing the ball than most fans are giving him credit for and it's not a performance close to getting him benched.

The Giants problem is primarily the amount of drops they've had and the amount of poor deep throws Jones has made. But this isn't tragedy level quarterback play.



this is exactly how i see it, only thing id add is that the trend has been up each week with the exception of the missed deep balls vs dallas which were glaring.

the inconsistent running game (and fumbles) have also made them one dimensional and put more pressure on the passing game.

that they are 1-3 despite jones playing good on his scale is not a particularly good endorsement of anything except regime change.



id even leave cowboys game out of it and just take the win vs commanders with a breathing kicker - then both they are 2-2 like every NFCE team and while the season isn't off to a rollicking start, they are in the mix instead of desperately needing a win @ Seattle.

and that's despite the 3rd/4th down drops end of game in WAS/DAL, the missed deep shots, inconsistent running game, defense being sloppy, total no show vs Min etc. They'd be a 2-2 team with lots of ways to improve over the season if they just clean up their own house.
RE: QB play 1st almost quarter of ‘24  
Racer : 10/2/2024 12:27 pm : link
In comment 16632444 RetroJint said:
Quote:
The QB play has been good enough for the Giants to have won 3 games . That doesn’t mean he’s played at a high level . It just means he hasn’t screwed up in a big way. The Giants have too many guys like that . But that concept is for another discussion.

Jones has been short and wide on the deep throws . To be fair his wide receivers have been tits-on-the-bull worthless making adjustments to the throws. And, for the Hyatt worshippers , his best (only?) + route is the sideline squeeze . DeVito and Taylor are very good dropping that throw in . Jones is not.

What happened to Jones ? Hard to say exactly , but I just deal with the end product . He has lost arm strength . Maybe it’s from the serious neck injuries . That’s conjecture . And maybe Daboll’s route tree , coupled with some truly gruesome downfield wide receiver play, has contributed to this malaise .

The Giants aren’t good enough to methodically march down the field for three touchdowns and two field goals a game. They need explosive plays . They are not getting it in the running game, either by the backs or Jones . And the vertical passing game is claustrophobic . Robinson and Nabers will not hold up to the enormous payload of hits they are taking .


You need to post more (again). Thanks.
RE: RE: RE: Jesus Christ.  
Racer : 10/2/2024 12:27 pm : link
In comment 16632337 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
In comment 16632314 knowledgetimmons said:


Quote:


In comment 16632308 rsjem1979 said:


Quote:


.



Fuck off retard. This is an interesting and well made thread.say something constructive before millering this thread. Clown.



Feel better?


See above. You need to post less.
RE: RE: Jesus Christ.  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/2/2024 12:38 pm : link
In comment 16632314 knowledgetimmons said:
Quote:
In comment 16632308 rsjem1979 said:


Quote:


.



Fuck off retard. This is an interesting and well made thread.say something constructive before millering this thread. Clown.

Is this real? How much did you drink?
RE: Daniel Jones's Best Passes  
Giantimistic : 10/2/2024 6:46 pm : link
In comment 16632745 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
I hardly remember most of these lol. DJ Deep passes - ( New Window )


Jones and Slayton as seen in some of the best of these have had such perfect timing and were in sync. The fact that he is not as in sync with Slayton anymore lends me to believe he has been affected by injury.
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