"there are obvious limitations"

If their best option has obvious limitations, why are the alternatives worse?

Fire Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll.

It's about that injury clause, Art

but clearly not to the Giants

I think it's questionable that he gives the team the best chance to win. The team scored more points with DeVito than Jones last year.

Puts them 0-4 at home and 0-3 in the division. Further it puts them at 2-5 with another Monday night game the following week.

I think at that point, we are at cross purposes......I can't root for the Giants to lose, but I know what meaningless wins are.
To me, the QB get the next 2 games, if he does not get a win and we are 2-6....that's Locke or DeVito time

In comment 16646845 gidiefor said:

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but clearly not to the Giants

Which simple highlights their incompetence

Why wouldn't DeVito or Lock offer a better chance? We are 2-4, and averaging 15 pts per game. Why can't we reach for the moon and do better? What happens with Lock, do we drop to 13 pts per game?

In comment 16646847 BrettNYG10 said:

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I think it's questionable that he gives the team the best chance to win. The team scored more points with DeVito than Jones last year.

I’ve been thinking the same.

In comment 16646847 BrettNYG10 said:

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I think it's questionable that he gives the team the best chance to win. The team scored more points with DeVito than Jones last year.

100% true that our offense moved the ball better with Taylor and DeVito last year than Jones. What do we have to lose at this point?

In comment 16646845 gidiefor said:

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but clearly not to the Giants

"That's not how we do business at 1925 Giants Way!"

Think the injury clause only comes in to play once we can say we are out of the playoff hunt. Until than they are going to keep running Jones out there. I have to believe they all know QB is the teams biggest need

I've had frustrations with Daboll here and there, but the bottom line is he's very limited as to what he can do as a play caller with Jones at the helm.

Its why I think Daboll survives and is given a chance to draft/develop a QB.

In comment 16646839 Go Terps said:

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If their best option has obvious limitations, why are the alternatives worse? Fire Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll.

can someone put a muzzle on their pet? Sick of the barking.

In comment 16646847 BrettNYG10 said:

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I think it's questionable that he gives the team the best chance to win. The team scored more points with DeVito than Jones last year.

I don’t think sitting Jones at this point would be giving up on the season. On the contrary, it may be necessary to try to save the season and some jobs. If Daboll can eek out a 5-6 record with DeVito while going 2-4 with Jones you can certainly argue it was Jones holding him back rather than the other way around.

In comment 16646853 PatersonPlank said:

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Why wouldn't DeVito or Lock offer a better chance? We are 2-4, and averaging 15 pts per game. Why can't we reach for the moon and do better? What happens with Lock, do we drop to 13 pts per game?

This. At some point you have to try something.

HOWEVER, sadly, this organization doesn't work that way.
WHEN, they are eliminated from the playoffs, THEN they will make a change, not until then. No matter how logical it looks,
Mara is always concerned with how things "look" from the outside. Benching a QB, whose not on his "last legs" (like McAdoo sold the Eli benching to Mara on), doesn't wash with John. They'll keep rolling Jones out, and letting the losses pile up, because that's how they do business. Sadly!

In comment 16646839 Go Terps said:

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If their best option has obvious limitations, why are the alternatives worse? Fire Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll.

The team tried to trade up for a QB in 2024 and their offers were rejected.

Pretty much everyone in NFL circles believes Schoen is picking good players, and Daboll is a good coach.

Seems like you just like to keep repeating things for the sake of it. They aren't getting fired. Quit your bitching.

...Giant's management committed professional incompetence when they made the conscious decision of not having a competent backup. They KNEW who and what Jones is. With the contract they gave him and the lack of a competent backup (Flacco, for instance, was out there, available), they made their decision. They have 'their' QB and he's just as incompetent as they are.

With last year's shit roster.

Yeah, he needed help from the defense but he was a *rookie*.


I feel like I am being lied to if the party line is no one else could do better.

In comment 16646847 BrettNYG10 said:

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I think it's questionable that he gives the team the best chance to win. The team scored more points with DeVito than Jones last year.

Very questionable.

In comment 16646875 Biteymax22 said:

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I've had frustrations with Daboll here and there, but the bottom line is he's very limited as to what he can do as a play caller with Jones at the helm. Its why I think Daboll survives and is given a chance to draft/develop a QB.

He was part of the decision making that bought the cow so he doesn't get the excuse that the cow doesn't produce any milk.

In comment 16646873 g56blue10 said:

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Think the injury clause only comes in to play once we can say we are out of the playoff hunt. Until than they are going to keep running Jones out there. I have to believe they all know QB is the teams biggest need

DJ has lead this team to 1 touchdown in 3 home games. Do you really believe he’s that much of a difference maker at this time?

7- 10 or 6-11 this year which will take us out of the picks for the top QB’s.

You know, I’m starting to enjoy the offseason more than the actual season. Optimism and hope is built from February to August, and is quickly shattered in September.

In comment 16646878 Mike from Ohio said:

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In comment 16646847 BrettNYG10 said: Quote: I think it's questionable that he gives the team the best chance to win. The team scored more points with DeVito than Jones last year. I don’t think sitting Jones at this point would be giving up on the season. On the contrary, it may be necessary to try to save the season and some jobs. If Daboll can eek out a 5-6 record with DeVito while going 2-4 with Jones you can certainly argue it was Jones holding him back rather than the other way around.

I'd say rolling with Jones, Lock, and DeVito was already giving up on the season, lol.

I'd play Lock, personally. He sucks but will at least be exciting and allow us to judge the WRs better because he throws the ball deep.

agree. Jones does not give the Giants the best chance to win. As others have noted, the offense was better with Taylor and DeVito last year. It almost certainly would be again this year with Lock or DeVito.

I agree that Jones' injury guarantee doesn't seem to be influencing the Giants coaches, if only because they keep calling designed runs for him. But it absolutely should, especially given his injury history.

In comment 16646913 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

In comment 16646839 Go Terps said: Quote: If their best option has obvious limitations, why are the alternatives worse? Fire Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll. The team tried to trade up for a QB in 2024 and their offers were rejected. Pretty much everyone in NFL circles believes Schoen is picking good players, and Daboll is a good coach. Seems like you just like to keep repeating things for the sake of it. They aren't getting fired. Quit your bitching.

They tried? That's like saying Jones is trying to be a passable starting QB. Who cares if they tried? They failed.

The Giants are 17-22-1 since these two jokers took over. Their big move is paying a really shitty QB 4/$160M.

You have incredible stamina for being incorrect, I'll give you that. I'm sorry to bitch; I actually care about the wins and losses.

In comment 16646845 gidiefor said:

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but clearly not to the Giants

And that is STUPID.

Although the glaring failure was that he failed to get an NFL level QB, and instead gave us 3 players who, if waived, may not be picked up by another team.

Schoen is a mixed bag. He has undoubtedly picked some good players. He also seems to have not maximized to top-10 picks in Neal and KT, and he signed a below average QB to a 4 year extension that is still a joke around the league.

If they keep Schoen I hope he gets much better. If they let him go, I think he won’t be difficult to replace.

best chance to win games. But obviously he's not giving us a very good chance. Things can always get worse, but at a certain point you have to see what the other guys can do. My guess is it will take two really bad games in a row for them to make a change. And if Jones has another game like the Seattle game, that will probably buy him some more time. Before the season, a few friends and I were speculating how long they'd keep him as the starter, and 11 games seemed like our consensus. 2 weeks in, it seemed like it would be much shorter. My current guess, other than an injury forcing him out sooner, is Pitt or Wash will be his last game starting for us.

In comment 16646876 Rory said:

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In comment 16646839 Go Terps said: Quote: If their best option has obvious limitations, why are the alternatives worse? Fire Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll. can someone put a muzzle on their pet? Sick of the barking.

The truth, especially over six years or more, really hurts.

In comment 16646962 JonC said:

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In comment 16646876 Rory said: Quote: In comment 16646839 Go Terps said: Quote: If their best option has obvious limitations, why are the alternatives worse? Fire Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll. can someone put a muzzle on their pet? Sick of the barking. The truth, especially over six years or more, really hurts.

Yeah let’s not talk about what is happening so posters like Rory can post more “YAY GO GIANTS, WE’RE #1” type stuff.

Terps has been more right about this organization than the pom pom wavers. It's just the truth.

GT is as fed up as this product as most of us are.

In comment 16646875 Biteymax22 said:

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I've had frustrations with Daboll here and there, but the bottom line is he's very limited as to what he can do as a play caller with Jones at the helm. Its why I think Daboll survives and is given a chance to draft/develop a QB.

I agree with those thoughts. I also think giving Daboll a chance with a competent QB is the right thing to do.

With the “let it play out”, “stop talking about the bad stuff”, etc lines. Like clockwork since Gettleman got here.

Assembling a very good coaching staff. Bowen proved a lot to me the last three weeks. Bricillo has already radically improved his unit. And I think Daboll is a quality offensive mind, which is something I also thought when he was in Buffalo.

Instead of a reset, let’s both sign a vet QB and draft one in the first one.

In comment 16646873 g56blue10 said:

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Think the injury clause only comes in to play once we can say we are out of the playoff hunt. Until than they are going to keep running Jones out there. I have to believe they all know QB is the teams biggest need

"What’s that? Ah - Playoffs? Don’t talk about - playoffs? You kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game!"

In comment 16646975 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Terps has been more right about this organization than the pom pom wavers. It's just the truth. GT is as fed up as this product as most of us are.

Ah, you have a gift for understatement. If this was a third world country we'd be storming the palace by now.

In comment 16646975 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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Terps has been more right about this organization than the pom pom wavers. It's just the truth. GT is as fed up as this product as most of us are.

+1

before the Defense starts to break down because the offense simply can't score points. The only thing the Offense is good at right now is time of possession, which helps, but Defensive players simply aren't going to keep up their level of play with no hope.

I've seen this scenario back in the 1970's, we had a playoff level Defense, but the Offense was incompetent (to the point where our best defensive player, Harry Carson, was thinking of retiring).

If Daboll/Schoen can't pull Jones because Lock/DeVito are not an option, then he needs to hire Ryan Tannehill before the Jags do (if they haven't already). Continuing with Jones is simply giving up on the season (which they may have already decided to do).

For every 8 games or so, he will have a good game or two, a horrible game or two, and the rest mediocre. Some variance, but he has never been a consistently average QB, let alone a good QB. I don't know what the DJFC is looking at. One good, even great game every once in a while isn't acceptable, especially for a QB in his 6th year. Spare me the excuses.

Our QB has obvious limitations after 6 years and 3 with this regime

And they have not made a single QB draft choice in 24 picks or brought in a potential QB in FA or trade to challenge as a starter in 3 years

And in fact gave Mr OBVIOUS limitations a 4/160 yr deal

This is an attempt to shift the narrative and protect jobs of Schoen/Daboll

Over last 2 years

DeVito was 3-3

This narrative we dont have a better choice is factually incorrect

“Obvious limitations “ acceptable after 3 years?

And why on Earth should it be tolerated at THE most important position?

In comment 16646840 Scooter185 said:

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It's about that injury clause, Art

_________
I could be way wrong but I remember only one QB who was too injured to start the next season. That was Alex Smith. I’m sure there are others but it doesn’t happen often, hence the guarantee.

Considering DJ limits the field of play and continues making elementary mistakes, a QB change is just common sense. The injury clause makes it an essential move sooner than later.

complicated. If the QB is the problem, which he is, you don’t fire the HC, you fire the QB.
Then you give the HC, who’s an excellent offensive mind, the opportunity to pick his own QB.

...as we all know, but that "pretty much everyone in NFL circles" statement is based on what exactly? Do you honestly believe NFL types give their honest opinion to the media? I happen to know 2 people currently employed by NFL teams (not the Giants), and their opinions, especially on Schoen, are not very flattering ("useful idiot" is my favorite). I know that is not evidence of anything, but we shouldn't be naive enough to believe what people say is actually what they feel.

because I believe better alternatives are out there. However, I don't trust the Giants to identify and hire these better alternatives. I also believe that both Schoen and Daboll are still early in their careers as first-time GM and HC and are capable of improving, though of course it's a gamble to assume they will.

In comment 16647301 Arnie D. said:

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complicated. If the QB is the problem, which he is, you don’t fire the HC, you fire the QB. Then you give the HC, who’s an excellent offensive mind, the opportunity to pick his own QB.

The rub is that, aside from an unrealistic trade proposal to a team very unlikely to trade, neither the GM nor the HC have advocated acquiring another QB and have dramatically misjudged the one they have.

Have they learned from that? It's anyone's guess.

if Belicheck doesn't want the job.

Schoen is nothing special, neither is Daboll, could be better with a better QB, but they are both mediocre.

he may screw up our draft pick. Deja vu all over again.