The Andrew Thomas injury concerns me. At the time of this writing, we do not have an update on the foot injury. Whether it is good or bad, there is concern about his ankle/foot issues becoming a chronic thing that will eventually catch up to him.
This is why it’s absolutely insane they’ve wasted his time with Daniel Jones as his quarterback. If it does end up being a chronic issue that hampers him the rest of his career, it’s disappointing that we could have wasted his best years.
Because of the nature of the sport, windows are short and the Giants are wasting the primes of Thomas and Lawrence
"The few opportunities where he had a receiver open 10+ yards downfield? He misfired on all of them. Jones did not make a single thing happen through the air when throwing the ball over ten yards. The stat line is poor. The tape was worse."
Why is Daniel Jones so bad at MetLife? I mean we’ve seen him be at least serviceable on the road throughout his career. At Home he plays like a third string QB 95% of the time. I’ve never seen a professional athlete struggle to play at home more than he does, in any sport.
fruits of a rebuild finally. It felt like this was constantly happening over the last 10 years. You see base talent now and its one of the few reasons to tune in on Sunday with this team. The Higgins piece and a real QB combined with Tracey and is this offensive dare I say dangerous?
Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
That was me. Oh boy, Pinnock had a bad game. Knives and pitchforks out. Believe me, I like McKinney - but not at $17 mill per. vs $1 mill for Pinnock. Pinnock has played well up until that run, but we saw the entire LB core turn the wrong way too.
Sy, any chance Daboll pulls the plug on Jones? He cannot allow Jones to keep losing games that should have been won.
NYG is…a quarterback away…from being a contender. A real one.
I think Daboll and Schoen have mostly done good work, but the decision to continue with Jones has sabotaged virtually everything else they have done. QBs make the big money because it's the most important position, and Jints Central has totally flubbed it.
Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
That was me. Oh boy, Pinnock had a bad game. Knives and pitchforks out. Believe me, I like McKinney - but not at $17 mill per. vs $1 mill for Pinnock. Pinnock has played well up until that run, but we saw the entire LB core turn the wrong way too.
Sy, any chance Daboll pulls the plug on Jones? He cannot allow Jones to keep losing games that should have been won.
At no point in time has Pinnock been a better safety than McKinney. Doesn’t matter what they are being paid. (2nd contract compared to a rookie contract).
Year one they used him all kinds of ways.. up the seam.. our the back field.. Swing passes in the flat.. they even had him on one play as an option passer ( he kept it and ran it in for a TD ).. he showed he has solid hands
The next year they got Waller and relegated him to blocking ONLY... This year same thing.. sometimes a fullback or blocker but NEVER a receiver..
What the hell did he do piss in Daboll's Cheerios?
Year one they used him all kinds of ways.. up the seam.. our the back field.. Swing passes in the flat.. they even had him on one play as an option passer ( he kept it and ran it in for a TD ).. he showed he has solid hands
The next year they got Waller and relegated him to blocking ONLY... This year same thing.. sometimes a fullback or blocker but NEVER a receiver..
What the hell did he do piss in Daboll's Cheerios?
only a QB away, what are your thoughts on putting in one of our back-ups? At what point do they see what we see and try to spark some production with a change at QB. I guess Lock and Devito aren't considered "real ones" either.
Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
Again, this is "last game syndrome"... if you've read Sy's reports for the last two years, he has spoken very highly of Pinnock.
I am still astounded that Giants fans can't seem to remember games/game reviews past one week.
Pinnock has been a good player here, but at no point in time has been a better or “as good as” McKinney. That is false.
Xavier has always had good range, but you take away his two last-game interceptions against the Eagles, and he was only an above average safety last year.
Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
Again, this is "last game syndrome"... if you've read Sy's reports for the last two years, he has spoken very highly of Pinnock.
I am still astounded that Giants fans can't seem to remember games/game reviews past one week.
Pinnock has been a good player here, but at no point in time has been a better or “as good as” McKinney. That is false.
Xavier has always had good range, but you take away his two last-game interceptions against the Eagles, and he was only an above average safety last year.
PFF had him with 87.5 grade last season. If the Giants weren’t so bad last season, that merits inclusion into All-Pro conversation.
Why is Daniel Jones so bad at MetLife? I mean we’ve seen him be at least serviceable on the road throughout his career. At Home he plays like a third string QB 95% of the time. I’ve never seen a professional athlete struggle to play at home more than he does, in any sport.
My theory is that he is very anxious and high strung and his performance declines when he becomes more anxious at home. I don’t believe in his talent but at the same time I don’t believe his mindset is maximizing his talent.
One of the memories of Jones that always sticks with me is a shot of him on the sidelines in the big 2nd half comeback vs the Cardinals in. 2023. He looked very calm and completely composed as he played really good football. Where is that guy the rest of the time?
He was an above average safety for the Giants. He also broke his contract by riding an ATV that cost him half a playoff season. He's also a loose cannon on social media.
Liked him, never loved him. Glad he is doing well right now but I don't miss him. Same with Barkley.
NYG is…a quarterback away…from being a contender. A real one.
I think Daboll and Schoen have mostly done good work, but the decision to continue with Jones has sabotaged virtually everything else they have done. QBs make the big money because it's the most important position, and Jints Central has totally flubbed it.
Not belabor the million previous posts, they are aware.
We shall see if drafting Nabers vs. JJM, Penix or Nix was a mistake. I'm still good with the roster construction. I'm also good with ending the death by 100 cuts. Get Thomas, Thibs and Nabers healthy while losing enough to contend in 2025. One more season of pain to get to the QB we need.
as Townsend so brilliantly wrote and Daltrey screamed at the top of his lungs...
I'd gladly lose me to find you
I'd gladly give up all I have
To find you, I'd suffer anything and be glad
I'll pay any price just to get you
I'd work all my life, and I will
To win you, I'd stand naked, stoned and stabbed
I call that a bargain
The best I ever had
The best I ever had
He was an above average safety for the Giants. He also broke his contract by riding an ATV that cost him half a playoff season. He's also a loose cannon on social media.
Liked him, never loved him. Glad he is doing well right now but I don't miss him. Same with Barkley.
You know who I miss? A'Shawn Robinsion.
That’s all well and good, but my point sticks. Saying Pinnock is just as good as McKinney is FALSE. And that will be made clear when Pinnock comes up for Free Agency this offseason.
The Andrew Thomas injury concerns me. At the time of this writing, we do not have an update on the foot injury. Whether it is good or bad, there is concern about his ankle/foot issues becoming a chronic thing that will eventually catch up to him.
This is why it’s absolutely insane they’ve wasted his time with Daniel Jones as his quarterback. If it does end up being a chronic issue that hampers him the rest of his career, it’s disappointing that we could have wasted his best years.
Because of the nature of the sport, windows are short and the Giants are wasting the primes of Thomas and Lawrence
Every bad team has a few good players wasting away. It’s not exactly newsworthy.
However one thing to keep in mind is that, IMO, once you make this change there is no going back. Jones is a polarizing figure, and a vet, so its not like a rookie you can sit for a few games and then try again. Plus since I'm not in the locker room I don't know the effect putting in Lock will have. Will it be positive or negative on the rest of the team, none of us know.
I would switch now under the guise of trying to win and save the season, knowing full well it may do nothing. To me job#1 now is getting a QB for next year. Either get in position to draft someone you like, or sign an expensive veteran.
However one thing to keep in mind is that, IMO, once you make this change there is no going back. Jones is a polarizing figure, and a vet, so its not like a rookie you can sit for a few games and then try again. Plus since I'm not in the locker room I don't know the effect putting in Lock will have. Will it be positive or negative on the rest of the team, none of us know.
I would switch now under the guise of trying to win and save the season, knowing full well it may do nothing. To me job#1 now is getting a QB for next year. Either get in position to draft someone you like, or sign an expensive veteran.
Yes.
Another consideration is the injury clause in Jones' contract.
The Andrew Thomas injury concerns me. At the time of this writing, we do not have an update on the foot injury. Whether it is good or bad, there is concern about his ankle/foot issues becoming a chronic thing that will eventually catch up to him.
This is why it’s absolutely insane they’ve wasted his time with Daniel Jones as his quarterback. If it does end up being a chronic issue that hampers him the rest of his career, it’s disappointing that we could have wasted his best years.
Because of the nature of the sport, windows are short and the Giants are wasting the primes of Thomas and Lawrence
Every bad team has a few good players wasting away. It’s not exactly newsworthy.
Ok? I’d rather not waste their primes though.
Just because it happens to other teams doesn’t mean it’s just whatever.
are 25, 26 and 26 soon to be 27 years old respectively. They are entering their prime. Now is the time to get a QB, it's not like their prime window is closing shortly, health permitting.
For all the crap Schoen and Daboll get here, some deservedly, the quality of the roster has increased across the board, especially given where they started from with 35 players under contract with barely enough cap dollars to sign their draft picks. Now that they have weaned Mara off Saquon, lets hope Jones is next.
Concerning regarding Thomas especially if it is that same issue he had surgery on. Agree the 4th down throw to WDR was late and there is a thread below on it.
I think the team offensively is a few players aways outside QB from competing for a SB.
Get no "well the rest of the roster looks improved" in my humble opinion.
They got into bed with Jones twice, and as much as I could give them a pass coming off a road playoff win in 2022, their response after 2023 in how they handled the QB position on this roster was negligent, reckless, incompetent or any other terrible way you want to describe it.
The way I see this roster is, Thomas and Lawrence were here. Okereke, Burns and Nabers were obviously solid acquisitions.
I'm not sure what else is so great about this roster. The results definitely don't speak to that.
1) Poor play design. The play action aspect forces Jones to turn his back to the defense. As a result, he's unable to see they are actually in zone and Hyatt's defender didn't follow him on the crosser. Therefore, Johnson's route would never have worked. The play action creates the need for additional time to read that side of the field after looking the near side safety off.
2) Eluemunor allows his defender to beat him immediately on his outside shoulder. On a play designed for the QB to roll to his right, that cannot happen.
3) Jones needed to recognize the play was dead in the water and just take the sack. The best outcome (throw away out of the endzone) was no longer on the table because of the immediate pressure.
Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
That was me. Oh boy, Pinnock had a bad game. Knives and pitchforks out. Believe me, I like McKinney - but not at $17 mill per. vs $1 mill for Pinnock. Pinnock has played well up until that run, but we saw the entire LB core turn the wrong way too.
Sy, any chance Daboll pulls the plug on Jones? He cannot allow Jones to keep losing games that should have been won.
At no point in time has Pinnock been a better safety than McKinney. Doesn’t matter what they are being paid. (2nd contract compared to a rookie contract).
Please stop. Pinnock has played very well and McKinney was fine last year - not $17 mill great. I was a $8-$10 mill resign believer. We will disagree on McKinney. Pinnock is not McKinney but I think Pinnock will tackle better and is absolutely better on the blitz.
They are asked to do different things in different defenses and given an even contract I would lean toward McKinney, yes.
It's as though Giants fans forgot the Giants were playing a team in their championship window, with their backs against the wall, and their defensive front back in place.
Yes their D has struggled in games thus far without key pieces upfront. Doesn't change the fact they are still an upper echelon team. The Giants were competitive again, despite missing a couple of important pieces to their team. Amazing to read this board's predictions and expectations week to week.
I know we're all sick of losing and moral victories. Spare me the "low bar" responses. I'm excited for Eagles game #1. Especially after how the defense has played vs. two of the best WR groups in the sport. Here comes another.
Nabers, Slayton, Tracy, WDR, Johnson. Let's go compete again.
Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
That was me. Oh boy, Pinnock had a bad game. Knives and pitchforks out. Believe me, I like McKinney - but not at $17 mill per. vs $1 mill for Pinnock. Pinnock has played well up until that run, but we saw the entire LB core turn the wrong way too.
Sy, any chance Daboll pulls the plug on Jones? He cannot allow Jones to keep losing games that should have been won.
At no point in time has Pinnock been a better safety than McKinney. Doesn’t matter what they are being paid. (2nd contract compared to a rookie contract).
Please stop. Pinnock has played very well and McKinney was fine last year - not $17 mill great. I was a $8-$10 mill resign believer. We will disagree on McKinney. Pinnock is not McKinney but I think Pinnock will tackle better and is absolutely better on the blitz.
They are asked to do different things in different defenses and given an even contract I would lean toward McKinney, yes.
Again you’re putting your personal biases to argue your point. The fact of the matter is that McKinney did sign a 4 year 67 million dollar contract on the open market. He has been more an above average safety since his 2nd season and is in All Pro consideration this season, on a good team. Pinnock is solid but he’s not as good as McKinney no matter how you want to spin it.
Get no "well the rest of the roster looks improved" in my humble opinion.
They got into bed with Jones twice, and as much as I could give them a pass coming off a road playoff win in 2022, their response after 2023 in how they handled the QB position on this roster was negligent, reckless, incompetent or any other terrible way you want to describe it.
The way I see this roster is, Thomas and Lawrence were here. Okereke, Burns and Nabers were obviously solid acquisitions.
I'm not sure what else is so great about this roster. The results definitely don't speak to that.
The NFL is a QB driven league
Outside of the Seattle game - our QB has been a bottom of league starter.
IMO, if Jayden Daniels is our QB from game 1 - we would be.... 5-1 ? And we definitely are making the playoffs in 2024.
Let's say we get more of a JJM, Penix or Nix in 2025
I still say we are immediately a playoff contender
Why is Daniel Jones so bad at MetLife? I mean we’ve seen him be at least serviceable on the road throughout his career. At Home he plays like a third string QB 95% of the time. I’ve never seen a professional athlete struggle to play at home more than he does, in any sport.
I wonder what that one would be titled "We Did Everything to Screw This Kid Up"
is Jones. A handful of good plays or even a few games doesn't change the fact that he is not an NFL QB, except maybe as a journeyman backup.
I don't care that benching him means we'd likely have to stay with Lock or DeVito. So what? Either is likely better than Jones, Jones is gone after this season anyway. Benching him also prevents him getting hurt, which could trigger his $23M injury guarantee.
is Jones. A handful of good plays or even a few games doesn't change the fact that he is not an NFL QB, except maybe as a journeyman backup.
I don't care that benching him means we'd likely have to stay with Lock or DeVito. So what? Either is likely better than Jones, Jones is gone after this season anyway. Benching him also prevents him getting hurt, which could trigger his $23M injury guarantee.
Regarding benching Jones, the Giants can win with DeVito. Going the other way, would that compromise Daboll and Schoen's chances of drafting another quarterback?
Also, Eric, I think you made a typo on the section for Andru Phillips.
Quote:
Her is an impactful presence for this defense already. He added 5 tackles, one for a loss.
Get no "well the rest of the roster looks improved" in my humble opinion.
They got into bed with Jones twice, and as much as I could give them a pass coming off a road playoff win in 2022, their response after 2023 in how they handled the QB position on this roster was negligent, reckless, incompetent or any other terrible way you want to describe it.
The way I see this roster is, Thomas and Lawrence were here. Okereke, Burns and Nabers were obviously solid acquisitions.
I'm not sure what else is so great about this roster. The results definitely don't speak to that.
The NFL is a QB driven league
Outside of the Seattle game - our QB has been a bottom of league starter.
IMO, if Jayden Daniels is our QB from game 1 - we would be.... 5-1 ? And we definitely are making the playoffs in 2024.
Let's say we get more of a JJM, Penix or Nix in 2025
I still say we are immediately a playoff contender
Well what in the hell are Schoen and Daboll waiting for? Even if you're telling me that their plan was to be "patient" and ride out Jones for 1 more year until they were in a better position to cut bait, then their "bridge" plan for the position was terrible as well.
Too many people still separate them from Daniel Jones. He is their guy. All their actions prove it, and given their actions this offseason, this type of season was obvious from a mile away.
16-ish PPG over 6 games, coming off of the crap Jones delivered last year and we still have Daboll telling us how hard he's working in these terrible and depressing post game interviews. I'd ask if we can at least se Drew Lock but we know he stinks as well, so can we at least maybe see DeVito?
Why is Daniel Jones so bad at MetLife? I mean we’ve seen him be at least serviceable on the road throughout his career. At Home he plays like a third string QB 95% of the time. I’ve never seen a professional athlete struggle to play at home more than he does, in any sport.
I can tell you it's unprecedented for NFL QBs. When I first looked at these splits in the 2023 offseason, I made a comparison with a large cross section of QBs and sometimes found a few QBs who were worse on the road (Drew Brees, Sam Darnold being examples), but not on the level of how much worse Jones is at home.
That picking a running back #4 overall is stupid when the overall quality of your roster is as poor as it was when they took Saquon. The only possible scenario where it might be a good idea is if it's a finishing piece, but even then it's a dubious idea as it is unlikely if you're picking #4 to begin with.
* This game sure looked like a chess match between Daboll and Lou Anarumo. It certainly seems Anarumo got the better of it. He emphasized coverage over blitzing. Daboll didn't adjust.
*Is there anyone that makes routine catches look more difficult than Slayton? He's a body catcher for sure, which comes with inherent risks that a hands catcher doesn't have to worry about.
*It's been discussed many times, but Deonte Banks continues to have problems playing the ball. Tee Higgins had several catches where he was able to juggle or bobble, then gain control without Banks being in position to break it up.
I thought JMS was a low-ceiling reach on draft day
That picking a running back #4 overall is stupid when the overall quality of your roster is as poor as it was when they took Saquon. The only possible scenario where it might be a good idea is if it's a finishing piece, but even then it's a dubious idea as it is unlikely if you're picking #4 to begin with.
So true. And picking one at #2 overall like we did is even worse ;)!!!!
* This game sure looked like a chess match between Daboll and Lou Anarumo. It certainly seems Anarumo got the better of it. He emphasized coverage over blitzing. Daboll didn't adjust.
*Is there anyone that makes routine catches look more difficult than Slayton? He's a body catcher for sure, which comes with inherent risks that a hands catcher doesn't have to worry about.
*It's been discussed many times, but Deonte Banks continues to have problems playing the ball. Tee Higgins had several catches where he was able to juggle or bobble, then gain control without Banks being in position to break it up.
good post Mike. Agreed on all 3 points. To build on it, I'm hoping the offensive staff realizes going to Slayton and WDR (limited catch radius) on key 3/4 down conversions is poor player utilization. Especially on stick routes that lead to contested catches.
corps with a healthy Nabers and some development by Johnson (and the skills of Tracy and Singletary) is probably middle of the pack and that a good QB could happily run an effective offense with them.
Get no "well the rest of the roster looks improved" in my humble opinion.
They got into bed with Jones twice, and as much as I could give them a pass coming off a road playoff win in 2022, their response after 2023 in how they handled the QB position on this roster was negligent, reckless, incompetent or any other terrible way you want to describe it.
The way I see this roster is, Thomas and Lawrence were here. Okereke, Burns and Nabers were obviously solid acquisitions.
I'm not sure what else is so great about this roster. The results definitely don't speak to that.
The NFL is a QB driven league
Outside of the Seattle game - our QB has been a bottom of league starter.
IMO, if Jayden Daniels is our QB from game 1 - we would be.... 5-1 ? And we definitely are making the playoffs in 2024.
Let's say we get more of a JJM, Penix or Nix in 2025
I still say we are immediately a playoff contender
Well what in the hell are Schoen and Daboll waiting for? Even if you're telling me that their plan was to be "patient" and ride out Jones for 1 more year until they were in a better position to cut bait, then their "bridge" plan for the position was terrible as well.
Too many people still separate them from Daniel Jones. He is their guy. All their actions prove it, and given their actions this offseason, this type of season was obvious from a mile away.
16-ish PPG over 6 games, coming off of the crap Jones delivered last year and we still have Daboll telling us how hard he's working in these terrible and depressing post game interviews. I'd ask if we can at least se Drew Lock but we know he stinks as well, so can we at least maybe see DeVito?
Getting your QB is much different than other positions for many reasons:
1- When he's done with his rookie contract - to keep him will likely make him the highest paid player on the team regardless of where ranks as a starter
2- Getting a top QB is the best indicator of success in the post-season
3- QB is BY FAR the most important position on the team
4- The best way to get your QB is in the draft
5- Once you choose your starter - your entire offense must be created around their abilities and limitations.
Yes, DJ sucks as a starter.
No Lock is not better
Face it, 2024 is done
The answer is get your QB for 2025
There are no good answers for 2024
I agree with drafting Nabers
Why Daboll basically ignored the run in the first half. Especially after the great game Tracy had.
Cincy was playing 8 in the box because they knew Jones wouldn’t and couldn’t throw deep on them. If Daboll kept running Tracy into the LOS for no gain, everyone here would complain that he ran it too much.
The fact is that our QB hurts every part of this offense.
However one thing to keep in mind is that, IMO, once you make this change there is no going back. Jones is a polarizing figure, and a vet, so its not like a rookie you can sit for a few games and then try again. Plus since I'm not in the locker room I don't know the effect putting in Lock will have. Will it be positive or negative on the rest of the team, none of us know.
I would switch now under the guise of trying to win and save the season, knowing full well it may do nothing. To me job#1 now is getting a QB for next year. Either get in position to draft someone you like, or sign an expensive veteran.
I still think Daboll is coaching for his job and will use/overuse DJ, Nabers, Slay in an effort to save his ass.
Why Daboll basically ignored the run in the first half. Especially after the great game Tracy had.
Cincy was playing 8 in the box because they knew Jones wouldn’t and couldn’t throw deep on them. If Daboll kept running Tracy into the LOS for no gain, everyone here would complain that he ran it too much.
The fact is that our QB hurts every part of this offense.
Here is a better thought- if Jones hots WDR on that deep wide open pass everything changes.
The Bengals and Cowboys sat within 10-15 yards of the LOS (the safeties were deepest at 15 yards or so) and they just waited on the flat routes (multiple guys breaking parallel to each other).. Jones has to pic the right gut to be successful and since he picks his guy before the snap the defense can identify the target quickly and react.
Jones is the reason we are not succeeding. It isn't a question any more.
However one thing to keep in mind is that, IMO, once you make this change there is no going back. Jones is a polarizing figure, and a vet, so its not like a rookie you can sit for a few games and then try again. Plus since I'm not in the locker room I don't know the effect putting in Lock will have. Will it be positive or negative on the rest of the team, none of us know.
I would switch now under the guise of trying to win and save the season, knowing full well it may do nothing. To me job#1 now is getting a QB for next year. Either get in position to draft someone you like, or sign an expensive veteran.
I still think Daboll is coaching for his job and will use/overuse DJ, Nabers, Slay in an effort to save his ass.
I seriously doubt he is coaching for his job and I doubt his job is in jeopardy at all.
RE: RE: RE: I would make the change from Jones now
However one thing to keep in mind is that, IMO, once you make this change there is no going back. Jones is a polarizing figure, and a vet, so its not like a rookie you can sit for a few games and then try again. Plus since I'm not in the locker room I don't know the effect putting in Lock will have. Will it be positive or negative on the rest of the team, none of us know.
I would switch now under the guise of trying to win and save the season, knowing full well it may do nothing. To me job#1 now is getting a QB for next year. Either get in position to draft someone you like, or sign an expensive veteran.
I still think Daboll is coaching for his job and will use/overuse DJ, Nabers, Slay in an effort to save his ass.
I seriously doubt he is coaching for his job and I doubt his job is in jeopardy at all.
Maybe, but I bet Saleh thought the same thing.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I would make the change from Jones now
No. Some people would like to enjoy a season that is actually competitive beyond September.
Understood and very much agree
But that's why I keep saying it's death by 1000 cuts.
Since 2017, the giants have only had one winning season (2022 9-7-1 playoff win vs the Vikings)
The other six season - 6 wins was the MOST in any season
We finally have a good nucleus
Instead of another 6 win shit season, let's really make it count with a 3 -4 win season and get one of the 2-3 guys we think can turn around this franchise.
Of Daboll's abilities - I'm betting on his ability to develop a QB and build an offense that will work around him.
He has the other parts
Get the fucking QB
Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
That was me. Oh boy, Pinnock had a bad game. Knives and pitchforks out. Believe me, I like McKinney - but not at $17 mill per. vs $1 mill for Pinnock. Pinnock has played well up until that run, but we saw the entire LB core turn the wrong way too.
Sy, any chance Daboll pulls the plug on Jones? He cannot allow Jones to keep losing games that should have been won.
At no point in time has Pinnock been a better safety than McKinney. Doesn’t matter what they are being paid. (2nd contract compared to a rookie contract).
Please stop. Pinnock has played very well and McKinney was fine last year - not $17 mill great. I was a $8-$10 mill resign believer. We will disagree on McKinney. Pinnock is not McKinney but I think Pinnock will tackle better and is absolutely better on the blitz.
They are asked to do different things in different defenses and given an even contract I would lean toward McKinney, yes.
Again you’re putting your personal biases to argue your point. The fact of the matter is that McKinney did sign a 4 year 67 million dollar contract on the open market. He has been more an above average safety since his 2nd season and is in All Pro consideration this season, on a good team. Pinnock is solid but he’s not as good as McKinney no matter how you want to spin it.
with all do respect, who the fuck cares? Pinnock is more than sufficient at a tenth of the cost. Is McKinney going to make them a SB winner? NO. THis board cracks me up. All complaints they overrate their own talent, shoulda traded this guy or that guy, but here is a case where X got more money than he ever dreamed of (so good for him) and the Giants had a value on him and stuck to it. And were prepared with Pinnock and scouting and drafting Nubin. Safety is a non-issue for the Giants.
Why Daboll basically ignored the run in the first half. Especially after the great game Tracy had.
Cincy was playing 8 in the box because they knew Jones wouldn’t and couldn’t throw deep on them. If Daboll kept running Tracy into the LOS for no gain, everyone here would complain that he ran it too much.
The fact is that our QB hurts every part of this offense.
Daboll wasn't the problem at all on SNF. He did his job. He recognized the FG kicker was a mess. He saw the CIncy D selling out against the run. He gave Jones a game plan to win with. Jones didn't deliver enough plays. Can't have the pick in the RZ unless you go bananas and lead the team on 5 scoring drives. HE didn't. Can't miss the play to Robinson unless you make up for it. He didn't.
Daboll is a good offensive coach and the D is playing well.
Your comments on DJ are almost verbatim what you forewarned us against in April 2019. There is nothing new here. DJ is a backup talent at best. He beat a bad defense in Seattle last week and there was a literal coronation on this site. Comparisons were again being made of DJ to top ten quarterbacks. Predictions of the Giants scoring more than thirty points against the Bengals ran nauseatingly rampant. The delusional insanity of quarterback hell in full view. Newsflash: backup quarterbacks win games in the NFL. Mitch Trubisky threw six touchdowns in a game. Marcus Mariota won a playoff game. Blake Bortles put his team on his back to play in the AFC Championship game.
What DJ did last week is no different from what DeVito did last year. It was an aberration. An exception to the unequivocal rule which we witnessed again on Sunday. That DJ is not much more than a free rider when this team wins games, and the primary cause in explaining why this team loses games. He will ultimately be crowned with the ignominy of being the worst quarterback in NFL history with sixty or more starts.
And the simple fact is, Schoen and Daboll hitched their wagon to this guy and their credibility in that locker room has to be shot at this point. Yes, Schoen has made some good draft picks and made some decent free agent acquisitions. But let's face it, the two best players on this team continue to be Gettleman picks. And Daboll is clearly coaching not to win a championship, but to save his job. He has reinserted the 2022 offense and put back the training wheels and guard rails on his quarterback. Which enables this team to beat bad teams, but can never beat good teams. And with an improved defense this year, a dumbed down offense will likely get him to six or seven wins. But does this tell us anything about his ability to win championships? No! It simply results in meaningless and forgettable late season wins.
So where does that leave this team? In a deep ditch desperately digging deeper.
That this team is just lacking a QB. A “real” QB he said.
Why on Earth would entrust the two guys Schoen/Daboll who could not recognize they did not have a real QB for 3 years and did absolutely nothing about it except pay him to get us our next QB?
Schoen/Daboll cannot be disembodied from this catastrophe.
with all do respect, who the fuck cares? Pinnock is more than sufficient at a tenth of the cost. Is McKinney going to make them a SB winner? NO. THis board cracks me up. All complaints they overrate their own talent, shoulda traded this guy or that guy, but here is a case where X got more money than he ever dreamed of (so good for him) and the Giants had a value on him and stuck to it. And were prepared with Pinnock and scouting and drafting Nubin. Safety is a non-issue for the Giants. [/quote]
If you’re going to jump in a conversation that has NOTHING to do with you, then at least know what the fuck the conversation is about.
That this team is just lacking a QB. A “real” QB he said.
Why on Earth would entrust the two guys Schoen/Daboll who could not recognize they did not have a real QB for 3 years and did absolutely nothing about it except pay him to get us our next QB?
Schoen/Daboll cannot be disembodied from this catastrophe.
Jones is the reason we are not succeeding. It isn't a question any more.
Quite myopic. It takes 11+ players and staff to succeed on any given Sunday. Just last week they were quite successful without Nabers and Singletary. This past game, not so much. On the season so far, not good enough. But competitive against some quality opponents and improving. Looking forward to getting Nabers back and seeing where it goes.
definitely return. There is not evidence to say he is a sure keeper and I agree that he chose Jones. The remaining division (NFCE is not very good) games are critical for any chance to return. He is an offensive coach and the O is the bigger problem right now.
definitely return. There is not evidence to say he is a sure keeper and I agree that he chose Jones. The remaining division (NFCE is not very good) games are critical for any chance to return. He is an offensive coach and the O is the bigger problem right now.
If Ben Johnson wants to come here Daboll can spend the year smoking cigars in his pool and not working.
He trashes Jones's performance and his contract. Yet, no mention of how poor Daboll's first half game plan was. See my main post about this. Yes, Jones was bad, but his coach did him no favors.
He trashes Jones's performance and his contract. Yet, no mention of how poor Daboll's first half game plan was. See my main post about this. Yes, Jones was bad, but his coach did him no favors.
He trashes Jones's performance and his contract. Yet, no mention of how poor Daboll's first half game plan was. See my main post about this. Yes, Jones was bad, but his coach did him no favors.
Jones had open receivers all day. He just couldn’t hit them or didn’t see them. So sure, I guess Daboll did him no favors by scheming receivers open and putting the pressure on his $40M QB to actually throw some accurate passes to the correct target.
He trashes Jones's performance and his contract. Yet, no mention of how poor Daboll's first half game plan was. See my main post about this. Yes, Jones was bad, but his coach did him no favors.
Jones had open receivers all day. He just couldn’t hit them or didn’t see them. So sure, I guess Daboll did him no favors by scheming receivers open and putting the pressure on his $40M QB to actually throw some accurate passes to the correct target.
Hold on a minute. Why not come out with the same gameplan that was so successful against Seattle? I'm guessing it was because Daboll outsmarted himself. He didn't do that because he was assuming that's what the Bengals were expecting him to do. Sometimes coaches overanalyze too much. He should have come out with the same offense, and if the Bengals stopped it, then you adjust. Don't go into adjusting before you even know if you have to.
with Sy about getting Tee to pair with Nabers would be great. Get a decent QB here in along with a WR or Tee's caliber to pair with Nabers and Wan'dale and you can start cooking.
He trashes Jones's performance and his contract. Yet, no mention of how poor Daboll's first half game plan was. See my main post about this. Yes, Jones was bad, but his coach did him no favors.
Jones had open receivers all day. He just couldn’t hit them or didn’t see them. So sure, I guess Daboll did him no favors by scheming receivers open and putting the pressure on his $40M QB to actually throw some accurate passes to the correct target.
Hold on a minute. Why not come out with the same gameplan that was so successful against Seattle? I'm guessing it was because Daboll outsmarted himself. He didn't do that because he was assuming that's what the Bengals were expecting him to do. Sometimes coaches overanalyze too much. He should have come out with the same offense, and if the Bengals stopped it, then you adjust. Don't go into adjusting before you even know if you have to.
Bullshit. And I don’t want to see you defending Daniel Jones EVER again. The fact that you now readily admit that he cannot handle any kind of responsibility in even the dumbed down offense that Daboll has tried to cater for him tells you all you need to know about your favorite QB. Daboll didn’t ask him to do anything a high school QB couldn’t do. And he still failed. Again. Just shut up now.
He trashes Jones's performance and his contract. Yet, no mention of how poor Daboll's first half game plan was. See my main post about this. Yes, Jones was bad, but his coach did him no favors.
Jones had open receivers all day. He just couldn’t hit them or didn’t see them. So sure, I guess Daboll did him no favors by scheming receivers open and putting the pressure on his $40M QB to actually throw some accurate passes to the correct target.
Hold on a minute. Why not come out with the same gameplan that was so successful against Seattle? I'm guessing it was because Daboll outsmarted himself. He didn't do that because he was assuming that's what the Bengals were expecting him to do. Sometimes coaches overanalyze too much. He should have come out with the same offense, and if the Bengals stopped it, then you adjust. Don't go into adjusting before you even know if you have to.
Bullshit. And I don’t want to see you defending Daniel Jones EVER again. The fact that you now readily admit that he cannot handle any kind of responsibility in even the dumbed down offense that Daboll has tried to cater for him tells you all you need to know about your favorite QB. Daboll didn’t ask him to do anything a high school QB couldn’t do. And he still failed. Again. Just shut up now.
You will not tell me what to do. The Giants should be running an offense similar to the Lions. Run based, play action attack. Period. That is the type of QB Jones is.
He trashes Jones's performance and his contract. Yet, no mention of how poor Daboll's first half game plan was. See my main post about this. Yes, Jones was bad, but his coach did him no favors.
Jones had open receivers all day. He just couldn’t hit them or didn’t see them. So sure, I guess Daboll did him no favors by scheming receivers open and putting the pressure on his $40M QB to actually throw some accurate passes to the correct target.
Hold on a minute. Why not come out with the same gameplan that was so successful against Seattle? I'm guessing it was because Daboll outsmarted himself. He didn't do that because he was assuming that's what the Bengals were expecting him to do. Sometimes coaches overanalyze too much. He should have come out with the same offense, and if the Bengals stopped it, then you adjust. Don't go into adjusting before you even know if you have to.
Whose gameplan is better, Brian Daboll's or Eightshamrocks's? Who can tell?
That this team is just lacking a QB. A “real” QB he said.
Why on Earth would entrust the two guys Schoen/Daboll who could not recognize they did not have a real QB for 3 years and did absolutely nothing about it except pay him to get us our next QB?
Schoen/Daboll cannot be disembodied from this catastrophe.
They dont have to be held blameless, but i also dont think capital punishment for the crime of belief in a player makes sense, especially when the owner was waving pom poms for said QB.
If you fired head coaches and GMs for misplaced belief in "I can fix him" there would be no one left to hire.
We also dont know to what extent they were individually on board with signing jones because everything the Giants do under John Mara regarding the QB needs to be run past Mara. Maybe Daboll lost that vote 2 to 1.
That this team is just lacking a QB. A “real” QB he said.
Why on Earth would entrust the two guys Schoen/Daboll who could not recognize they did not have a real QB for 3 years and did absolutely nothing about it except pay him to get us our next QB?
Schoen/Daboll cannot be disembodied from this catastrophe.
The jury is very much out on their QB eval skills. It’s ok to say we lack the information to have an opinion on this point. We’ll know a lot more when Penix starts to play.
I was very nervous about McCarthy and Nix was a hard pass. Schoen probably made the right call passing on Sam Howell. One miss may be Will Levis who was picked shortly after Banks. But Levis is not having a good year.
Mara to replace Jones, that's another red flag for Daboll/Schoen.
While I don't necessarily disagree, you see how he reacted and his reasoning behind not keeping Barkley, a player who won him nothing and got hurt a lot.
It's like trying to work around your stubborn dad.
We have a good defense, playoff caliber - need help for Dex and CB1 (I consider Banks a good CB2) and we can be elite.
Offense - we have an OL that is at least average; have the stud WR1. Need WR2 (like Higgins as Sy mentioned) and hope TE develops and then we have plenty of weapons to be a good offense…. If we have a good WB.
I’m in favor of benching Jones now and playing out the season with Tommy Cutlets. They won’t do it, but it does more for the longer term team build - you get to see if Tommy can be a solid backup, you avoid the Jones injury risk, and if the team struggles - so be it, you improve your draft positioning as a result. It’s not a tank, it’s a strategic move.
We have a good defense, playoff caliber - need help for Dex and CB1 (I consider Banks a good CB2) and we can be elite.
Offense - we have an OL that is at least average; have the stud WR1. Need WR2 (like Higgins as Sy mentioned) and hope TE develops and then we have plenty of weapons to be a good offense…. If we have a good WB.
I’m in favor of benching Jones now and playing out the season with Tommy Cutlets. They won’t do it, but it does more for the longer term team build - you get to see if Tommy can be a solid backup, you avoid the Jones injury risk, and if the team struggles - so be it, you improve your draft positioning as a result. It’s not a tank, it’s a strategic move.
The point is - it’s not as hopeless as it looks.
Conversely, if we continue trotting Jones out there for the last 11 games, it seems pretty hopeless to me.
for the last 11 games. How many more games can they possibly win with him. Maybe they beat Carolina and wind up with 3 wins. At best 4 wins if he plays another game like Seattle.
We don’t need DeVito coming in and stealing a few wins. Look what that did for us last year. We likely have Daniels or Maye right now if DeVito didn’t get those meaningless wins last year.
Year one they used him all kinds of ways.. up the seam.. our the back field.. Swing passes in the flat.. they even had him on one play as an option passer ( he kept it and ran it in for a TD ).. he showed he has solid hands
The next year they got Waller and relegated him to blocking ONLY... This year same thing.. sometimes a fullback or blocker but NEVER a receiver..
What the hell did he do piss in Daboll's Cheerios?
This is an interesting question. Especially considering we aren't a downfield team.
This is why it’s absolutely insane they’ve wasted his time with Daniel Jones as his quarterback. If it does end up being a chronic issue that hampers him the rest of his career, it’s disappointing that we could have wasted his best years.
Because of the nature of the sport, windows are short and the Giants are wasting the primes of Thomas and Lawrence
Now we just need to get in the position to pick them and evaluate them correctly... Some extra assets in the draft wouldn't hurt.
That was me. Oh boy, Pinnock had a bad game. Knives and pitchforks out. Believe me, I like McKinney - but not at $17 mill per. vs $1 mill for Pinnock. Pinnock has played well up until that run, but we saw the entire LB core turn the wrong way too.
Sy, any chance Daboll pulls the plug on Jones? He cannot allow Jones to keep losing games that should have been won.
I think Daboll and Schoen have mostly done good work, but the decision to continue with Jones has sabotaged virtually everything else they have done. QBs make the big money because it's the most important position, and Jints Central has totally flubbed it.
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Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
That was me. Oh boy, Pinnock had a bad game. Knives and pitchforks out. Believe me, I like McKinney - but not at $17 mill per. vs $1 mill for Pinnock. Pinnock has played well up until that run, but we saw the entire LB core turn the wrong way too.
Sy, any chance Daboll pulls the plug on Jones? He cannot allow Jones to keep losing games that should have been won.
At no point in time has Pinnock been a better safety than McKinney. Doesn’t matter what they are being paid. (2nd contract compared to a rookie contract).
Again, this is "last game syndrome"... if you've read Sy's reports for the last two years, he has spoken very highly of Pinnock.
I am still astounded that Giants fans can't seem to remember games/game reviews past one week.
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Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
Again, this is "last game syndrome"... if you've read Sy's reports for the last two years, he has spoken very highly of Pinnock.
I am still astounded that Giants fans can't seem to remember games/game reviews past one week.
Pinnock has been a good player here, but at no point in time has been a better or “as good as” McKinney. That is false.
The next year they got Waller and relegated him to blocking ONLY... This year same thing.. sometimes a fullback or blocker but NEVER a receiver..
What the hell did he do piss in Daboll's Cheerios?
He is consistently bad. Hence a 1-14 prime time. Hence him being terrible at home
Hence going 8 straight prime time games with no pass TDs to his own team
Hence not throwing a pass TD to his owm team at home since 2022
Hence going 154 consecutive passes without a pass TD to his own team . 2nd most ever
Hence throwing the least TDs to pass attempts to start a season in NFL history. TWICE! (2021 & 2023)
Hence not throwing more than 2 TDs in a game since his rookie season
Hence never throwing 2 or more TDs in a game for 3 consecutive games. He never did it in college either
His usual performance is under 200 yds and 0-1 TDs in his career
He is very consistent
The next year they got Waller and relegated him to blocking ONLY... This year same thing.. sometimes a fullback or blocker but NEVER a receiver..
What the hell did he do piss in Daboll's Cheerios?
The Johnson has surpassed him on the depth chart.
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In comment 16647953 JoeyBigBlue said:
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Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
Again, this is "last game syndrome"... if you've read Sy's reports for the last two years, he has spoken very highly of Pinnock.
I am still astounded that Giants fans can't seem to remember games/game reviews past one week.
Pinnock has been a good player here, but at no point in time has been a better or “as good as” McKinney. That is false.
Xavier has always had good range, but you take away his two last-game interceptions against the Eagles, and he was only an above average safety last year.
Now we just need to get in the position to pick them and evaluate them correctly... Some extra assets in the draft wouldn't hurt.
We also clearly need DL. I see a QB in the first round and DE in the 2nd with extra front 7 picks later depending on the scouting.
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In comment 16647977 Eric from BBI said:
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In comment 16647953 JoeyBigBlue said:
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Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
Again, this is "last game syndrome"... if you've read Sy's reports for the last two years, he has spoken very highly of Pinnock.
I am still astounded that Giants fans can't seem to remember games/game reviews past one week.
Pinnock has been a good player here, but at no point in time has been a better or “as good as” McKinney. That is false.
Xavier has always had good range, but you take away his two last-game interceptions against the Eagles, and he was only an above average safety last year.
PFF had him with 87.5 grade last season. If the Giants weren’t so bad last season, that merits inclusion into All-Pro conversation.
My theory is that he is very anxious and high strung and his performance declines when he becomes more anxious at home. I don’t believe in his talent but at the same time I don’t believe his mindset is maximizing his talent.
One of the memories of Jones that always sticks with me is a shot of him on the sidelines in the big 2nd half comeback vs the Cardinals in. 2023. He looked very calm and completely composed as he played really good football. Where is that guy the rest of the time?
I use my eyes.
He was an above average safety for the Giants. He also broke his contract by riding an ATV that cost him half a playoff season. He's also a loose cannon on social media.
Liked him, never loved him. Glad he is doing well right now but I don't miss him. Same with Barkley.
You know who I miss? A'Shawn Robinsion.
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NYG is…a quarterback away…from being a contender. A real one.
I think Daboll and Schoen have mostly done good work, but the decision to continue with Jones has sabotaged virtually everything else they have done. QBs make the big money because it's the most important position, and Jints Central has totally flubbed it.
Not belabor the million previous posts, they are aware.
We shall see if drafting Nabers vs. JJM, Penix or Nix was a mistake. I'm still good with the roster construction. I'm also good with ending the death by 100 cuts. Get Thomas, Thibs and Nabers healthy while losing enough to contend in 2025. One more season of pain to get to the QB we need.
I'd gladly lose me to find you
I'd gladly give up all I have
To find you, I'd suffer anything and be glad
I'll pay any price just to get you
I'd work all my life, and I will
To win you, I'd stand naked, stoned and stabbed
I call that a bargain
The best I ever had
The best I ever had
Now we just need to get in the position to pick them and evaluate them correctly... Some extra assets in the draft wouldn't hurt.
+1
I use my eyes.
He was an above average safety for the Giants. He also broke his contract by riding an ATV that cost him half a playoff season. He's also a loose cannon on social media.
Liked him, never loved him. Glad he is doing well right now but I don't miss him. Same with Barkley.
You know who I miss? A'Shawn Robinsion.
That’s all well and good, but my point sticks. Saying Pinnock is just as good as McKinney is FALSE. And that will be made clear when Pinnock comes up for Free Agency this offseason.
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The Andrew Thomas injury concerns me. At the time of this writing, we do not have an update on the foot injury. Whether it is good or bad, there is concern about his ankle/foot issues becoming a chronic thing that will eventually catch up to him.
This is why it’s absolutely insane they’ve wasted his time with Daniel Jones as his quarterback. If it does end up being a chronic issue that hampers him the rest of his career, it’s disappointing that we could have wasted his best years.
Because of the nature of the sport, windows are short and the Giants are wasting the primes of Thomas and Lawrence
Every bad team has a few good players wasting away. It’s not exactly newsworthy.
I would switch now under the guise of trying to win and save the season, knowing full well it may do nothing. To me job#1 now is getting a QB for next year. Either get in position to draft someone you like, or sign an expensive veteran.
I would switch now under the guise of trying to win and save the season, knowing full well it may do nothing. To me job#1 now is getting a QB for next year. Either get in position to draft someone you like, or sign an expensive veteran.
Yes.
Another consideration is the injury clause in Jones' contract.
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The Andrew Thomas injury concerns me. At the time of this writing, we do not have an update on the foot injury. Whether it is good or bad, there is concern about his ankle/foot issues becoming a chronic thing that will eventually catch up to him.
This is why it’s absolutely insane they’ve wasted his time with Daniel Jones as his quarterback. If it does end up being a chronic issue that hampers him the rest of his career, it’s disappointing that we could have wasted his best years.
Because of the nature of the sport, windows are short and the Giants are wasting the primes of Thomas and Lawrence
Every bad team has a few good players wasting away. It’s not exactly newsworthy.
Ok? I’d rather not waste their primes though.
Just because it happens to other teams doesn’t mean it’s just whatever.
It sucks to suck. Goes without saying.
It sucks to suck. Goes without saying.
Making an observation isn’t whining. But carry on.
For all the crap Schoen and Daboll get here, some deservedly, the quality of the roster has increased across the board, especially given where they started from with 35 players under contract with barely enough cap dollars to sign their draft picks. Now that they have weaned Mara off Saquon, lets hope Jones is next.
I think the team offensively is a few players aways outside QB from competing for a SB.
Do you mean using him at OLB?
They got into bed with Jones twice, and as much as I could give them a pass coming off a road playoff win in 2022, their response after 2023 in how they handled the QB position on this roster was negligent, reckless, incompetent or any other terrible way you want to describe it.
The way I see this roster is, Thomas and Lawrence were here. Okereke, Burns and Nabers were obviously solid acquisitions.
I'm not sure what else is so great about this roster. The results definitely don't speak to that.
1) Poor play design. The play action aspect forces Jones to turn his back to the defense. As a result, he's unable to see they are actually in zone and Hyatt's defender didn't follow him on the crosser. Therefore, Johnson's route would never have worked. The play action creates the need for additional time to read that side of the field after looking the near side safety off.
2) Eluemunor allows his defender to beat him immediately on his outside shoulder. On a play designed for the QB to roll to his right, that cannot happen.
3) Jones needed to recognize the play was dead in the water and just take the sack. The best outcome (throw away out of the endzone) was no longer on the table because of the immediate pressure.
Team failure.
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In comment 16647953 JoeyBigBlue said:
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Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
That was me. Oh boy, Pinnock had a bad game. Knives and pitchforks out. Believe me, I like McKinney - but not at $17 mill per. vs $1 mill for Pinnock. Pinnock has played well up until that run, but we saw the entire LB core turn the wrong way too.
Sy, any chance Daboll pulls the plug on Jones? He cannot allow Jones to keep losing games that should have been won.
At no point in time has Pinnock been a better safety than McKinney. Doesn’t matter what they are being paid. (2nd contract compared to a rookie contract).
Please stop. Pinnock has played very well and McKinney was fine last year - not $17 mill great. I was a $8-$10 mill resign believer. We will disagree on McKinney. Pinnock is not McKinney but I think Pinnock will tackle better and is absolutely better on the blitz.
They are asked to do different things in different defenses and given an even contract I would lean toward McKinney, yes.
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He has size and speed. Is he being used wrong at tackle?
Do you mean using him at OLB?
No pass rush DE - I advocated for it last week. I think he would be great off the edge.
Yes their D has struggled in games thus far without key pieces upfront. Doesn't change the fact they are still an upper echelon team. The Giants were competitive again, despite missing a couple of important pieces to their team. Amazing to read this board's predictions and expectations week to week.
I know we're all sick of losing and moral victories. Spare me the "low bar" responses. I'm excited for Eagles game #1. Especially after how the defense has played vs. two of the best WR groups in the sport. Here comes another.
Nabers, Slayton, Tracy, WDR, Johnson. Let's go compete again.
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In comment 16647970 section125 said:
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In comment 16647953 JoeyBigBlue said:
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Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
That was me. Oh boy, Pinnock had a bad game. Knives and pitchforks out. Believe me, I like McKinney - but not at $17 mill per. vs $1 mill for Pinnock. Pinnock has played well up until that run, but we saw the entire LB core turn the wrong way too.
Sy, any chance Daboll pulls the plug on Jones? He cannot allow Jones to keep losing games that should have been won.
At no point in time has Pinnock been a better safety than McKinney. Doesn’t matter what they are being paid. (2nd contract compared to a rookie contract).
Please stop. Pinnock has played very well and McKinney was fine last year - not $17 mill great. I was a $8-$10 mill resign believer. We will disagree on McKinney. Pinnock is not McKinney but I think Pinnock will tackle better and is absolutely better on the blitz.
They are asked to do different things in different defenses and given an even contract I would lean toward McKinney, yes.
Again you’re putting your personal biases to argue your point. The fact of the matter is that McKinney did sign a 4 year 67 million dollar contract on the open market. He has been more an above average safety since his 2nd season and is in All Pro consideration this season, on a good team. Pinnock is solid but he’s not as good as McKinney no matter how you want to spin it.
They got into bed with Jones twice, and as much as I could give them a pass coming off a road playoff win in 2022, their response after 2023 in how they handled the QB position on this roster was negligent, reckless, incompetent or any other terrible way you want to describe it.
The way I see this roster is, Thomas and Lawrence were here. Okereke, Burns and Nabers were obviously solid acquisitions.
I'm not sure what else is so great about this roster. The results definitely don't speak to that.
The NFL is a QB driven league
Outside of the Seattle game - our QB has been a bottom of league starter.
IMO, if Jayden Daniels is our QB from game 1 - we would be.... 5-1 ? And we definitely are making the playoffs in 2024.
Let's say we get more of a JJM, Penix or Nix in 2025
I still say we are immediately a playoff contender
I wonder what that one would be titled "We Did Everything to Screw This Kid Up"
I don't care that benching him means we'd likely have to stay with Lock or DeVito. So what? Either is likely better than Jones, Jones is gone after this season anyway. Benching him also prevents him getting hurt, which could trigger his $23M injury guarantee.
I don't care that benching him means we'd likely have to stay with Lock or DeVito. So what? Either is likely better than Jones, Jones is gone after this season anyway. Benching him also prevents him getting hurt, which could trigger his $23M injury guarantee.
Regarding benching Jones, the Giants can win with DeVito. Going the other way, would that compromise Daboll and Schoen's chances of drafting another quarterback?
Also, Eric, I think you made a typo on the section for Andru Phillips.
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Get no "well the rest of the roster looks improved" in my humble opinion.
They got into bed with Jones twice, and as much as I could give them a pass coming off a road playoff win in 2022, their response after 2023 in how they handled the QB position on this roster was negligent, reckless, incompetent or any other terrible way you want to describe it.
The way I see this roster is, Thomas and Lawrence were here. Okereke, Burns and Nabers were obviously solid acquisitions.
I'm not sure what else is so great about this roster. The results definitely don't speak to that.
The NFL is a QB driven league
Outside of the Seattle game - our QB has been a bottom of league starter.
IMO, if Jayden Daniels is our QB from game 1 - we would be.... 5-1 ? And we definitely are making the playoffs in 2024.
Let's say we get more of a JJM, Penix or Nix in 2025
I still say we are immediately a playoff contender
Well what in the hell are Schoen and Daboll waiting for? Even if you're telling me that their plan was to be "patient" and ride out Jones for 1 more year until they were in a better position to cut bait, then their "bridge" plan for the position was terrible as well.
Too many people still separate them from Daniel Jones. He is their guy. All their actions prove it, and given their actions this offseason, this type of season was obvious from a mile away.
16-ish PPG over 6 games, coming off of the crap Jones delivered last year and we still have Daboll telling us how hard he's working in these terrible and depressing post game interviews. I'd ask if we can at least se Drew Lock but we know he stinks as well, so can we at least maybe see DeVito?
Been wondering the same thing.
I can tell you it's unprecedented for NFL QBs. When I first looked at these splits in the 2023 offseason, I made a comparison with a large cross section of QBs and sometimes found a few QBs who were worse on the road (Drew Brees, Sam Darnold being examples), but not on the level of how much worse Jones is at home.
*Is there anyone that makes routine catches look more difficult than Slayton? He's a body catcher for sure, which comes with inherent risks that a hands catcher doesn't have to worry about.
*It's been discussed many times, but Deonte Banks continues to have problems playing the ball. Tee Higgins had several catches where he was able to juggle or bobble, then gain control without Banks being in position to break it up.
So true. And picking one at #2 overall like we did is even worse ;)!!!!
*Is there anyone that makes routine catches look more difficult than Slayton? He's a body catcher for sure, which comes with inherent risks that a hands catcher doesn't have to worry about.
*It's been discussed many times, but Deonte Banks continues to have problems playing the ball. Tee Higgins had several catches where he was able to juggle or bobble, then gain control without Banks being in position to break it up.
good post Mike. Agreed on all 3 points. To build on it, I'm hoping the offensive staff realizes going to Slayton and WDR (limited catch radius) on key 3/4 down conversions is poor player utilization. Especially on stick routes that lead to contested catches.
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In comment 16648048 kelly said:
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He has size and speed. Is he being used wrong at tackle?
Do you mean using him at OLB?
No pass rush DE - I advocated for it last week. I think he would be great off the edge.
This team doesn't have pass rush DEs. They have DTs and OLBs.
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In comment 16648086 Chris684 said:
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Get no "well the rest of the roster looks improved" in my humble opinion.
They got into bed with Jones twice, and as much as I could give them a pass coming off a road playoff win in 2022, their response after 2023 in how they handled the QB position on this roster was negligent, reckless, incompetent or any other terrible way you want to describe it.
The way I see this roster is, Thomas and Lawrence were here. Okereke, Burns and Nabers were obviously solid acquisitions.
I'm not sure what else is so great about this roster. The results definitely don't speak to that.
The NFL is a QB driven league
Outside of the Seattle game - our QB has been a bottom of league starter.
IMO, if Jayden Daniels is our QB from game 1 - we would be.... 5-1 ? And we definitely are making the playoffs in 2024.
Let's say we get more of a JJM, Penix or Nix in 2025
I still say we are immediately a playoff contender
Well what in the hell are Schoen and Daboll waiting for? Even if you're telling me that their plan was to be "patient" and ride out Jones for 1 more year until they were in a better position to cut bait, then their "bridge" plan for the position was terrible as well.
Too many people still separate them from Daniel Jones. He is their guy. All their actions prove it, and given their actions this offseason, this type of season was obvious from a mile away.
16-ish PPG over 6 games, coming off of the crap Jones delivered last year and we still have Daboll telling us how hard he's working in these terrible and depressing post game interviews. I'd ask if we can at least se Drew Lock but we know he stinks as well, so can we at least maybe see DeVito?
Getting your QB is much different than other positions for many reasons:
1- When he's done with his rookie contract - to keep him will likely make him the highest paid player on the team regardless of where ranks as a starter
2- Getting a top QB is the best indicator of success in the post-season
3- QB is BY FAR the most important position on the team
4- The best way to get your QB is in the draft
5- Once you choose your starter - your entire offense must be created around their abilities and limitations.
Yes, DJ sucks as a starter.
No Lock is not better
Face it, 2024 is done
The answer is get your QB for 2025
There are no good answers for 2024
I agree with drafting Nabers
Just another reason that getting the right one is so important.
Cincy was playing 8 in the box because they knew Jones wouldn’t and couldn’t throw deep on them. If Daboll kept running Tracy into the LOS for no gain, everyone here would complain that he ran it too much.
The fact is that our QB hurts every part of this offense.
I would switch now under the guise of trying to win and save the season, knowing full well it may do nothing. To me job#1 now is getting a QB for next year. Either get in position to draft someone you like, or sign an expensive veteran.
I still think Daboll is coaching for his job and will use/overuse DJ, Nabers, Slay in an effort to save his ass.
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Why Daboll basically ignored the run in the first half. Especially after the great game Tracy had.
Cincy was playing 8 in the box because they knew Jones wouldn’t and couldn’t throw deep on them. If Daboll kept running Tracy into the LOS for no gain, everyone here would complain that he ran it too much.
The fact is that our QB hurts every part of this offense.
Here is a better thought- if Jones hots WDR on that deep wide open pass everything changes.
The Bengals and Cowboys sat within 10-15 yards of the LOS (the safeties were deepest at 15 yards or so) and they just waited on the flat routes (multiple guys breaking parallel to each other).. Jones has to pic the right gut to be successful and since he picks his guy before the snap the defense can identify the target quickly and react.
Jones is the reason we are not succeeding. It isn't a question any more.
No. Some people would like to enjoy a season that is actually competitive beyond September.
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However one thing to keep in mind is that, IMO, once you make this change there is no going back. Jones is a polarizing figure, and a vet, so its not like a rookie you can sit for a few games and then try again. Plus since I'm not in the locker room I don't know the effect putting in Lock will have. Will it be positive or negative on the rest of the team, none of us know.
I would switch now under the guise of trying to win and save the season, knowing full well it may do nothing. To me job#1 now is getting a QB for next year. Either get in position to draft someone you like, or sign an expensive veteran.
I still think Daboll is coaching for his job and will use/overuse DJ, Nabers, Slay in an effort to save his ass.
I seriously doubt he is coaching for his job and I doubt his job is in jeopardy at all.
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In comment 16648022 PatersonPlank said:
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However one thing to keep in mind is that, IMO, once you make this change there is no going back. Jones is a polarizing figure, and a vet, so its not like a rookie you can sit for a few games and then try again. Plus since I'm not in the locker room I don't know the effect putting in Lock will have. Will it be positive or negative on the rest of the team, none of us know.
I would switch now under the guise of trying to win and save the season, knowing full well it may do nothing. To me job#1 now is getting a QB for next year. Either get in position to draft someone you like, or sign an expensive veteran.
I still think Daboll is coaching for his job and will use/overuse DJ, Nabers, Slay in an effort to save his ass.
I seriously doubt he is coaching for his job and I doubt his job is in jeopardy at all.
Maybe, but I bet Saleh thought the same thing.
.....
I seriously doubt he is coaching for his job and I doubt his job is in jeopardy at all.
Maybe, but I bet Saleh thought the same thing.
Completely different set of rules. Schoen knows they need a QB and the team is improved.
Saleh had his QB and kept effing up.
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All-Pros at every position.
No. Some people would like to enjoy a season that is actually competitive beyond September.
Understood and very much agree
But that's why I keep saying it's death by 1000 cuts.
Since 2017, the giants have only had one winning season (2022 9-7-1 playoff win vs the Vikings)
The other six season - 6 wins was the MOST in any season
We finally have a good nucleus
Instead of another 6 win shit season, let's really make it count with a 3 -4 win season and get one of the 2-3 guys we think can turn around this franchise.
Of Daboll's abilities - I'm betting on his ability to develop a QB and build an offense that will work around him.
He has the other parts
Get the fucking QB
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In comment 16647974 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 16647970 section125 said:
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In comment 16647953 JoeyBigBlue said:
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Said that Jason Pinnock is just as good as Xavier McKinney… LOL
That was me. Oh boy, Pinnock had a bad game. Knives and pitchforks out. Believe me, I like McKinney - but not at $17 mill per. vs $1 mill for Pinnock. Pinnock has played well up until that run, but we saw the entire LB core turn the wrong way too.
Sy, any chance Daboll pulls the plug on Jones? He cannot allow Jones to keep losing games that should have been won.
At no point in time has Pinnock been a better safety than McKinney. Doesn’t matter what they are being paid. (2nd contract compared to a rookie contract).
Please stop. Pinnock has played very well and McKinney was fine last year - not $17 mill great. I was a $8-$10 mill resign believer. We will disagree on McKinney. Pinnock is not McKinney but I think Pinnock will tackle better and is absolutely better on the blitz.
They are asked to do different things in different defenses and given an even contract I would lean toward McKinney, yes.
Again you’re putting your personal biases to argue your point. The fact of the matter is that McKinney did sign a 4 year 67 million dollar contract on the open market. He has been more an above average safety since his 2nd season and is in All Pro consideration this season, on a good team. Pinnock is solid but he’s not as good as McKinney no matter how you want to spin it.
with all do respect, who the fuck cares? Pinnock is more than sufficient at a tenth of the cost. Is McKinney going to make them a SB winner? NO. THis board cracks me up. All complaints they overrate their own talent, shoulda traded this guy or that guy, but here is a case where X got more money than he ever dreamed of (so good for him) and the Giants had a value on him and stuck to it. And were prepared with Pinnock and scouting and drafting Nubin. Safety is a non-issue for the Giants.
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Why Daboll basically ignored the run in the first half. Especially after the great game Tracy had.
Cincy was playing 8 in the box because they knew Jones wouldn’t and couldn’t throw deep on them. If Daboll kept running Tracy into the LOS for no gain, everyone here would complain that he ran it too much.
The fact is that our QB hurts every part of this offense.
Daboll wasn't the problem at all on SNF. He did his job. He recognized the FG kicker was a mess. He saw the CIncy D selling out against the run. He gave Jones a game plan to win with. Jones didn't deliver enough plays. Can't have the pick in the RZ unless you go bananas and lead the team on 5 scoring drives. HE didn't. Can't miss the play to Robinson unless you make up for it. He didn't.
Daboll is a good offensive coach and the D is playing well.
What DJ did last week is no different from what DeVito did last year. It was an aberration. An exception to the unequivocal rule which we witnessed again on Sunday. That DJ is not much more than a free rider when this team wins games, and the primary cause in explaining why this team loses games. He will ultimately be crowned with the ignominy of being the worst quarterback in NFL history with sixty or more starts.
And the simple fact is, Schoen and Daboll hitched their wagon to this guy and their credibility in that locker room has to be shot at this point. Yes, Schoen has made some good draft picks and made some decent free agent acquisitions. But let's face it, the two best players on this team continue to be Gettleman picks. And Daboll is clearly coaching not to win a championship, but to save his job. He has reinserted the 2022 offense and put back the training wheels and guard rails on his quarterback. Which enables this team to beat bad teams, but can never beat good teams. And with an improved defense this year, a dumbed down offense will likely get him to six or seven wins. But does this tell us anything about his ability to win championships? No! It simply results in meaningless and forgettable late season wins.
So where does that leave this team? In a deep ditch desperately digging deeper.
like saying the one trait I don't see with the receivers is catching
Why on Earth would entrust the two guys Schoen/Daboll who could not recognize they did not have a real QB for 3 years and did absolutely nothing about it except pay him to get us our next QB?
Schoen/Daboll cannot be disembodied from this catastrophe.
with all do respect, who the fuck cares? Pinnock is more than sufficient at a tenth of the cost. Is McKinney going to make them a SB winner? NO. THis board cracks me up. All complaints they overrate their own talent, shoulda traded this guy or that guy, but here is a case where X got more money than he ever dreamed of (so good for him) and the Giants had a value on him and stuck to it. And were prepared with Pinnock and scouting and drafting Nubin. Safety is a non-issue for the Giants. [/quote]
If you’re going to jump in a conversation that has NOTHING to do with you, then at least know what the fuck the conversation is about.
Why on Earth would entrust the two guys Schoen/Daboll who could not recognize they did not have a real QB for 3 years and did absolutely nothing about it except pay him to get us our next QB?
Schoen/Daboll cannot be disembodied from this catastrophe.
This ^
Quite myopic. It takes 11+ players and staff to succeed on any given Sunday. Just last week they were quite successful without Nabers and Singletary. This past game, not so much. On the season so far, not good enough. But competitive against some quality opponents and improving. Looking forward to getting Nabers back and seeing where it goes.
If Ben Johnson wants to come here Daboll can spend the year smoking cigars in his pool and not working.
Give it a rest
Jones had open receivers all day. He just couldn’t hit them or didn’t see them. So sure, I guess Daboll did him no favors by scheming receivers open and putting the pressure on his $40M QB to actually throw some accurate passes to the correct target.
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He trashes Jones's performance and his contract. Yet, no mention of how poor Daboll's first half game plan was. See my main post about this. Yes, Jones was bad, but his coach did him no favors.
Jones had open receivers all day. He just couldn’t hit them or didn’t see them. So sure, I guess Daboll did him no favors by scheming receivers open and putting the pressure on his $40M QB to actually throw some accurate passes to the correct target.
I know that's a hot take but I'm very dubious about this staff on the whole.
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In comment 16648461 Eightshamrocks said:
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He trashes Jones's performance and his contract. Yet, no mention of how poor Daboll's first half game plan was. See my main post about this. Yes, Jones was bad, but his coach did him no favors.
Jones had open receivers all day. He just couldn’t hit them or didn’t see them. So sure, I guess Daboll did him no favors by scheming receivers open and putting the pressure on his $40M QB to actually throw some accurate passes to the correct target.
Hold on a minute. Why not come out with the same gameplan that was so successful against Seattle? I'm guessing it was because Daboll outsmarted himself. He didn't do that because he was assuming that's what the Bengals were expecting him to do. Sometimes coaches overanalyze too much. He should have come out with the same offense, and if the Bengals stopped it, then you adjust. Don't go into adjusting before you even know if you have to.
Bullshit. And I don’t want to see you defending Daniel Jones EVER again. The fact that you now readily admit that he cannot handle any kind of responsibility in even the dumbed down offense that Daboll has tried to cater for him tells you all you need to know about your favorite QB. Daboll didn’t ask him to do anything a high school QB couldn’t do. And he still failed. Again. Just shut up now.
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In comment 16648487 BigBlueShock said:
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In comment 16648461 Eightshamrocks said:
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He trashes Jones's performance and his contract. Yet, no mention of how poor Daboll's first half game plan was. See my main post about this. Yes, Jones was bad, but his coach did him no favors.
Jones had open receivers all day. He just couldn’t hit them or didn’t see them. So sure, I guess Daboll did him no favors by scheming receivers open and putting the pressure on his $40M QB to actually throw some accurate passes to the correct target.
Hold on a minute. Why not come out with the same gameplan that was so successful against Seattle? I'm guessing it was because Daboll outsmarted himself. He didn't do that because he was assuming that's what the Bengals were expecting him to do. Sometimes coaches overanalyze too much. He should have come out with the same offense, and if the Bengals stopped it, then you adjust. Don't go into adjusting before you even know if you have to.
Bullshit. And I don’t want to see you defending Daniel Jones EVER again. The fact that you now readily admit that he cannot handle any kind of responsibility in even the dumbed down offense that Daboll has tried to cater for him tells you all you need to know about your favorite QB. Daboll didn’t ask him to do anything a high school QB couldn’t do. And he still failed. Again. Just shut up now.
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In comment 16648461 Eightshamrocks said:
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He trashes Jones's performance and his contract. Yet, no mention of how poor Daboll's first half game plan was. See my main post about this. Yes, Jones was bad, but his coach did him no favors.
Jones had open receivers all day. He just couldn’t hit them or didn’t see them. So sure, I guess Daboll did him no favors by scheming receivers open and putting the pressure on his $40M QB to actually throw some accurate passes to the correct target.
Hold on a minute. Why not come out with the same gameplan that was so successful against Seattle? I'm guessing it was because Daboll outsmarted himself. He didn't do that because he was assuming that's what the Bengals were expecting him to do. Sometimes coaches overanalyze too much. He should have come out with the same offense, and if the Bengals stopped it, then you adjust. Don't go into adjusting before you even know if you have to.
Whose gameplan is better, Brian Daboll's or Eightshamrocks's? Who can tell?
Why on Earth would entrust the two guys Schoen/Daboll who could not recognize they did not have a real QB for 3 years and did absolutely nothing about it except pay him to get us our next QB?
Schoen/Daboll cannot be disembodied from this catastrophe.
They dont have to be held blameless, but i also dont think capital punishment for the crime of belief in a player makes sense, especially when the owner was waving pom poms for said QB.
If you fired head coaches and GMs for misplaced belief in "I can fix him" there would be no one left to hire.
We also dont know to what extent they were individually on board with signing jones because everything the Giants do under John Mara regarding the QB needs to be run past Mara. Maybe Daboll lost that vote 2 to 1.
Why on Earth would entrust the two guys Schoen/Daboll who could not recognize they did not have a real QB for 3 years and did absolutely nothing about it except pay him to get us our next QB?
Schoen/Daboll cannot be disembodied from this catastrophe.
The jury is very much out on their QB eval skills. It’s ok to say we lack the information to have an opinion on this point. We’ll know a lot more when Penix starts to play.
I was very nervous about McCarthy and Nix was a hard pass. Schoen probably made the right call passing on Sam Howell. One miss may be Will Levis who was picked shortly after Banks. But Levis is not having a good year.
While I don't necessarily disagree, you see how he reacted and his reasoning behind not keeping Barkley, a player who won him nothing and got hurt a lot.
It's like trying to work around your stubborn dad.
We have a good defense, playoff caliber - need help for Dex and CB1 (I consider Banks a good CB2) and we can be elite.
Offense - we have an OL that is at least average; have the stud WR1. Need WR2 (like Higgins as Sy mentioned) and hope TE develops and then we have plenty of weapons to be a good offense…. If we have a good WB.
I’m in favor of benching Jones now and playing out the season with Tommy Cutlets. They won’t do it, but it does more for the longer term team build - you get to see if Tommy can be a solid backup, you avoid the Jones injury risk, and if the team struggles - so be it, you improve your draft positioning as a result. It’s not a tank, it’s a strategic move.
The point is - it’s not as hopeless as it looks.
We have a good defense, playoff caliber - need help for Dex and CB1 (I consider Banks a good CB2) and we can be elite.
Offense - we have an OL that is at least average; have the stud WR1. Need WR2 (like Higgins as Sy mentioned) and hope TE develops and then we have plenty of weapons to be a good offense…. If we have a good WB.
I’m in favor of benching Jones now and playing out the season with Tommy Cutlets. They won’t do it, but it does more for the longer term team build - you get to see if Tommy can be a solid backup, you avoid the Jones injury risk, and if the team struggles - so be it, you improve your draft positioning as a result. It’s not a tank, it’s a strategic move.
The point is - it’s not as hopeless as it looks.
Conversely, if we continue trotting Jones out there for the last 11 games, it seems pretty hopeless to me.
We don’t need DeVito coming in and stealing a few wins. Look what that did for us last year. We likely have Daniels or Maye right now if DeVito didn’t get those meaningless wins last year.
The next year they got Waller and relegated him to blocking ONLY... This year same thing.. sometimes a fullback or blocker but NEVER a receiver..
What the hell did he do piss in Daboll's Cheerios?
This is an interesting question. Especially considering we aren't a downfield team.