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Clarification on the Jones Injury Clause?

WestCoastGMan : 10/15/2024 10:40 am
I have not heard a lot about this but if DJ gets hurt we are on the hook for 22 million for next year? But if he is healthy we can duck out of his options?
Why is this guy running head first into safeties like in Seattle game?
Thanks in advance for clarifications.
Big Blue View, July 20, 2024 may have the best summary I have seen  
Ivan15 : 10/15/2024 11:03 am : link
Of the injury clause and the Giant options.

Sorry, I can’t post or link. Maybe someone else can.
...  
26.2 : 10/15/2024 11:08 am : link
If he can't pass a physical by a certain date in March (new league year perhaps) his 2025 salary is guaranteed. Which is like 40 mil. If he can pass a physical, we can cut him and would be like 22 mil of dead money.

Sorry if this isn't exactly correct, but its how I remember it.
 
christian : 10/15/2024 11:14 am : link
23M of his 30M 2025 salary was guaranteed for injury at signing. We don't know the exact date, but presumably on March 15th (which is the trigger for a regular guarantee of 12M), if Jones has a football related injury that keeps him from passing a physical that 23M becomes guaranteed.
There's no particular triggering date for the $23M injury guarantee  
shyster : 10/15/2024 11:42 am : link
It depends on the Giants' decision to release DJ at a point at which he can't pass a physical.

In theory, if he couldn't pass a physical in March, but could in, say, June or July, the Giants would "only" take the $12M hit from the March vesting guarantee, not the full $23M hit, by releasing him in the summer.
Thanks for clarification  
WestCoastGMan : 10/15/2024 12:03 pm : link
So, best case scenario is DJ plays well and snaps out of it.
Medium case is he is healthy but we intend to release.
Worst case is he stinks and gets hurt(2023) for a long period past March.
Now if he gets hurts, gets his 23 mill, and somehow gets signed by another team is that kosher??
Hindsight is 20/20 BUT  
GiantBlue : 10/15/2024 12:11 pm : link
I still say they should have franchised Jones for one year and cut bait for free....and signed Barkley to a deal.

This QB hangs over our heads like an albatross and the hatchet of that injury clause if flying around ready to bang us in the back of the head!

Meanwhile it is still Jones or Lock or Davito.

Who at any other team fears that?
RE: Thanks for clarification  
shyster : 10/15/2024 12:18 pm : link
In comment 16648173 WestCoastGMan said:
Quote:

Now if he gets hurts, gets his 23 mill, and somehow gets signed by another team is that kosher??


If another team wants to pay him, yes, he could take their money as well. "Career ending" or "having to retire" are not the standard for the injury guarantee.

It's possible the Giants could have salary offset language in the contract for 2025, if he collected and were paid by another team, but I'm not aware of it.
i am now even more confused  
AROCK1000 : 10/15/2024 12:25 pm : link
lol
RE: There's no particular triggering date for the $23M injury guarantee  
Mad Mike : 10/15/2024 1:14 pm : link
In comment 16648149 shyster said:
Quote:
It depends on the Giants' decision to release DJ at a point at which he can't pass a physical.

In theory, if he couldn't pass a physical in March, but could in, say, June or July, the Giants would "only" take the $12M hit from the March vesting guarantee, not the full $23M hit, by releasing him in the summer.

Not that $12M is peanuts, but that's an important clarification I hadn't realized, thanks.
Shyster  
cosmicj : 10/15/2024 1:19 pm : link
That’s a really important clarification about the $12mm. Can you link to your source?
RE: i am now even more confused  
djm : 10/15/2024 2:00 pm : link
In comment 16648216 AROCK1000 said:
Quote:
lol


Same
RE: Hindsight is 20/20 BUT  
DefenseWins : 10/15/2024 2:06 pm : link
In comment 16648188 GiantBlue said:
Quote:

This QB hangs over our heads like an albatross and the hatchet of that injury clause if flying around ready to bang us in the back of the head!


No, it hangs in the heads of fans who worry too much about the contracts. Schoen has this all figured out. He created this contract knowing they could pull the rip cord.

Even after cutting Jones, we still have room to sign other QBs and we did not even know how much the cap will increase next year.
Giants in a tough spot 6 years and 6 games  
Blue21 : 10/15/2024 2:29 pm : link
we for sure know what he is. We bench him what message does this send to the team? Better be vocal about needing a spark and hope the team buys it. If they don't it could be ugly. Bad situation. I guess you gotta give him 7 or 8 games and hope he stays healthy.
RE: Shyster  
shyster : 10/15/2024 3:31 pm : link
In comment 16648301 cosmicj said:
Quote:
That’s a really important clarification about the $12mm. Can you link to your source?


From Over the Cap:

Quote:
$23 million of the 2025 base salary is guaranteed for injury at signing, with $12 million of that scheduled to vest into a full guarantee at the start of the 2025 league year.


Spotrac further specifies that "start of the 2025 league year" in this case means the fifth day of the league year, or March 16.

For 2025 free agent cap flexibility, it would be very important for NYG to be able to release a healthy Jones by March 16. The scenario I mention above where NYG could delay releasing him until the summer, if he were not healthy in March, would be a significant drag in that regard.

If it might help those still pondering, Giants have a minimum post-release dead cap hit for Jones of $22M, representing amortized bonus previously paid. If the $12M vests on March 16, that hit goes to $34M minimum. The remaining $11M of the $23M injury guarantee could push the dead cap hit to a max of $45M. As always, there is a choice with dead cap hit whether to take it all at once, or spread over two years with post-June 1 designation.

Jones' "live" cap hit for 2025 is $41M, representing $30M of 2025 salary and one year of amortized bonus of $11M. That's his drag on available 2025 cap until he's released.

otc - ( New Window )
 
christian : 10/15/2024 4:54 pm : link
Shyster is correct per usual.

Technically the injury guarantee is already triggered, as it was guaranteed at signing. So that's an inaccurate term. Any attempt the Giants make to terminate his agreement before the end of the term would require him to be injury-free, otherwise the injury guarantee *might* apply.

The team and the player can definitely disagree if the extent of the injury is the reason for termination and if that injury impacts the year in question. When Schoen cut Logan Ryan for instance, Ryan filed a grievance because he required surgery on his hand I believe. And the Giants lost.

Hypothetically my understanding is if the Giants cut Jones today, and he had a sprained ankle, he wouldn't win a grievance and claw any of his 2025 salary.

Practically, the Giants have no incentive to cut Jones until March 15th, as his 2024 salary is fully guaranteed. So that is the practical date as Shyster has described the Giants are working towards.

The cleanest way for the Giants to cut Jones is for him to be football injury free before the 12M in full guarantees vest on 3/15.
Assume DJ is injury free  
AROCK1000 : 10/15/2024 5:20 pm : link
And we release him Before 3/15/25
What is the actual cap hit?
RE: Assume DJ is injury free  
shyster : 10/15/2024 5:39 pm : link
In comment 16648637 AROCK1000 said:
Quote:
And we release him Before 3/15/25
What is the actual cap hit?


$22M, which could all be taken in 2025, or split over 2025 and 2026

That's two years worth of amortized bonus already paid, at $11M per.
Thank you  
cosmicj : 10/15/2024 5:42 pm : link
.
Yes thank you  
AROCK1000 : 10/15/2024 5:57 pm : link
I guess it would depend upon which QB is available during the off season.
If there is no one then we can take the 23M cap hit all at once.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/15/2024 6:01 pm : link
Clarification: he should be benched ASAP, lest he get injured and we are stuck with black hole again next season.
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