Why does he insist on trying to turn Jones into Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes when he clearly is not? If Jones is your QB, you know going in that you have to have a game plan each week similar to the game plan vs Seattle. Jones is successful when he plays in a run based, play action attack. He is not successful in a 4 wide, shot gun offense. It really is very simple to understand, except apparently for the Giants HC. So the question is, is Daboll being stubborn, or is he deliberately conducting a soft tank on the season? The offensive gameplan in the 1st half on Sunday was a joke. Shot gun snaps 90% of the time, Jones looking to pass with no sniff of even attempting to establish the run or by extension, the play action. Again, if Jones is your QB, play to his strengths-stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.
Jones sucks.
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.
Jones sucks.
And this is relevant to my post how?
And well is being generous.
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Jones averaged 2.2 air yards per attempt.
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.
Jones sucks.
And this is relevant to my post how?
Because you stupidly think Daboll's offense is similar to those ran by Mahomes and Allen. The Daboll offense is remarkably conservative.
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In comment 16648433 BrettNYG10 said:
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Jones averaged 2.2 air yards per attempt.
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.
Jones sucks.
And this is relevant to my post how?
Because you stupidly think Daboll's offense is similar to those ran by Mahomes and Allen. The Daboll offense is remarkably conservative.
"we have done everything we possibly can to screw up Daniel"
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.
Jones sucks.
Take a look at Mahomes' charts. You might be surprised. His aDot this year is 5.2. Dead last among starters.
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Jones averaged 2.2 air yards per attempt.
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.
Jones sucks.
And this is relevant to my post how?
It's at least as relevant as your post was to begin with.
Just another DJ excuse.
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In comment 16648433 BrettNYG10 said:
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Jones averaged 2.2 air yards per attempt.
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.
Jones sucks.
And this is relevant to my post how?
It's at least as relevant as your post was to begin with.
Just another DJ excuse.
They want him to sling it. If he can't, he's not the guy. And yeah, I think that Jones would probably be better in a less spread oriented system--that was kind of what I thought the Giants were trying to build when they drafted him. But we're way past that on this second contract.
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In comment 16648435 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16648433 BrettNYG10 said:
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Jones averaged 2.2 air yards per attempt.
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.
Jones sucks.
And this is relevant to my post how?
It's at least as relevant as your post was to begin with.
Just another DJ excuse.
We'll never know that will we? Because Daboll didn't even try to replicate the success the offense had against Seattle, vs the Bengals.
Do you have a mouse in your pocket? Because if not, there's no "we." I do know. You refuse to.
"What do you like these plays against this look?"
"How do you feel about these packages on 1st down?"
"How do you feel about these packages on 2nd down?"
"How do you feel about these packages on 3rd down?"
"How do you feel about this goal line package?"
"How do you feel about these checkdown options?"
"What do you think about the gameplan overall?"
Etc.
In other words, this posts reeks of more excuse chasing by one of the C-suite members of the DJFC.
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In comment 16648478 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16648435 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16648433 BrettNYG10 said:
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Jones averaged 2.2 air yards per attempt.
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.
Jones sucks.
And this is relevant to my post how?
It's at least as relevant as your post was to begin with.
Just another DJ excuse.
We'll never know that will we? Because Daboll didn't even try to replicate the success the offense had against Seattle, vs the Bengals.
Do you have a mouse in your pocket? Because if not, there's no "we." I do know. You refuse to.
No, I'm just going to stick to my normal, intelligent view of reality where I can discern the difference between a lucky outlier performance and something that more closely resembles most of the rest of the dataset, and be able to do so without blaming the rest of the team, the coaching staff, the catering crew, the uniform manufacturer, etc.
Anyone else that might be to blame besides poor Danny?
I prefer an offense like Detroit's. Very good running game with the QB under center often maximizing PA.
Give it a rest, EightIQPoints, your QB is garbage, Bill Walsh could return from the grave and it wouldn't make any difference.
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So you are going to pretend this offense wasn't a success vs Seattle? Ok, keep living in the dream world.
No, I'm just going to stick to my normal, intelligent view of reality where I can discern the difference between a lucky outlier performance and something that more closely resembles most of the rest of the dataset, and be able to do so without blaming the rest of the team, the coaching staff, the catering crew, the uniform manufacturer, etc.
Anyone else that might be to blame besides poor Danny?
Give it a rest, EightIQPoints, your QB is garbage, Bill Walsh could return from the grave and it wouldn't make any difference.
I prefer an offense like Detroit's. Very good running game with the QB under center often maximizing PA.
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In comment 16648435 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16648433 BrettNYG10 said:
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Jones averaged 2.2 air yards per attempt.
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.
Jones sucks.
And this is relevant to my post how?
Because you stupidly think Daboll's offense is similar to those ran by Mahomes and Allen. The Daboll offense is remarkably conservative.
Look at the 1st half on Sunday. And what are you talking about? Daboll was the Bills OC with Allen and they still have the same QB and HC. It's the same offense.
Joe Brady was in high demand after LSU won the natty, do you really think he's running Daboll's offense? Where do you come up with this shit?
How many times did Daboll go 4-wide Sunday night? I'll wait.
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Every team in the NFL knows he's a shitty QB, they load the box and dare Jones to throw deep. You really don't think Daboll knows this? If he called more runs in the first half that netted few yards, the OP would be blaming Daboll for not trusting Jones enough.
Give it a rest, EightIQPoints, your QB is garbage, Bill Walsh could return from the grave and it wouldn't make any difference.
He's a shitty QB only in the offense Daboll wants to run. He isn't shitty in a run based, play action attack.
The Bengals already had 10 players within 10-11 yards of the LOS because they know Jones doesn't have the ability to beat them deep or outside the numbers, what do you think play-action is going to do?
And your infatuation with the Seattle game is just plain sad. There was nothing special about that performance, except if you're a truly unserious person who doesn't watch other NFL games.
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Lucky outlier performance? It's not so much an outlier performance. Rather, it a coach that stubbornly refuses to keep doing what's working. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Nearly every time Daboll comes out with a run based, play action attack the Giants offense led by Jones responds well. Conversely, nearly every time Daboll comes out with a 4 wide, shot gun based attack, this team and Jones struggles mightily. If you opened your eyes, you would see this.
How many times did Daboll go 4-wide Sunday night? I'll wait.
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Every team in the NFL knows he's a shitty QB, they load the box and dare Jones to throw deep. You really don't think Daboll knows this? If he called more runs in the first half that netted few yards, the OP would be blaming Daboll for not trusting Jones enough.
Give it a rest, EightIQPoints, your QB is garbage, Bill Walsh could return from the grave and it wouldn't make any difference.
He's a shitty QB only in the offense Daboll wants to run. He isn't shitty in a run based, play action attack.
He was shitty in Cutcliffe's offense. Then he was shitty in Shurmur's offense. Then he was shitty in Garrett's offense. Then he was shitty in Kitchens' offense. Then he was shitty in Kafka's offense. Now he's shitty in Daboll's offense.
At what point is he just shitty?
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In comment 16648531 Eightshamrocks said:
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Lucky outlier performance? It's not so much an outlier performance. Rather, it a coach that stubbornly refuses to keep doing what's working. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Nearly every time Daboll comes out with a run based, play action attack the Giants offense led by Jones responds well. Conversely, nearly every time Daboll comes out with a 4 wide, shot gun based attack, this team and Jones struggles mightily. If you opened your eyes, you would see this.
How many times did Daboll go 4-wide Sunday night? I'll wait.
Seriously? Did you not watch the 1st half? Daboll came out with a completely different game plan than the one vs Seattle.
Yeah, its not like other teams will notice and take away the run, stop the short passing game with so many people in the box or line up with 8 men at the first down line and dare DJ to throw over their head. Oh wait...
I prefer an offense like Detroit's. Very good running game with the QB under center often maximizing PA.
They do this at times with good results. Then they outthink themselves like the 1st half of the Bengals game.
I prefer an offense like Detroit's. Very good running game with the QB under center often maximizing PA.
If I were a new fan to the NFL trying to find a team to root for, the Lions would be on the short list for sure.
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Every team in the NFL knows he's a shitty QB, they load the box and dare Jones to throw deep. You really don't think Daboll knows this? If he called more runs in the first half that netted few yards, the OP would be blaming Daboll for not trusting Jones enough.
Give it a rest, EightIQPoints, your QB is garbage, Bill Walsh could return from the grave and it wouldn't make any difference.
He's a shitty QB only in the offense Daboll wants to run. He isn't shitty in a run based, play action attack.
And yet none of the head coaches or OCs Jones has played under, has been able to understand that - thereby unleashing the greatness of DJ.
It's mind boggling...
Incredible.
LoL, right? What a jerk Daboll is for confusing Jones by scheming so many open receivers
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In comment 16648531 Eightshamrocks said:
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Lucky outlier performance? It's not so much an outlier performance. Rather, it a coach that stubbornly refuses to keep doing what's working. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Nearly every time Daboll comes out with a run based, play action attack the Giants offense led by Jones responds well. Conversely, nearly every time Daboll comes out with a 4 wide, shot gun based attack, this team and Jones struggles mightily. If you opened your eyes, you would see this.
How many times did Daboll go 4-wide Sunday night? I'll wait.
Seriously? Did you not watch the 1st half? Daboll came out with a completely different game plan than the one vs Seattle.
This has been explained to you at least a dozen times in this thread, and at least as many in another thread. Daboll couldn't use the same playbook because Cincy was loading the box, daring your darling to beat them deep.
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In comment 16648543 Section331 said:
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In comment 16648531 Eightshamrocks said:
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Lucky outlier performance? It's not so much an outlier performance. Rather, it a coach that stubbornly refuses to keep doing what's working. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Nearly every time Daboll comes out with a run based, play action attack the Giants offense led by Jones responds well. Conversely, nearly every time Daboll comes out with a 4 wide, shot gun based attack, this team and Jones struggles mightily. If you opened your eyes, you would see this.
How many times did Daboll go 4-wide Sunday night? I'll wait.
Seriously? Did you not watch the 1st half? Daboll came out with a completely different game plan than the one vs Seattle.
This has been explained to you at least a dozen times in this thread, and at least as many in another thread. Daboll couldn't use the same playbook because Cincy was loading the box, daring your darling to beat them deep.
Not to mention, the fact that you think "it worked against Seattle!" means it will work against Cincy shows how little you know about football. You don't think Cincy watches film?
This has been explained to you at least a dozen times in this thread, and at least as many in another thread. Daboll couldn't use the same playbook because Cincy was loading the box, daring your darling to beat them deep.
The rules have been established by DJFC.
NYG wins it's because of Jones.
NYG loses it's because of Daboll.
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In comment 16648543 Section331 said:
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In comment 16648531 Eightshamrocks said:
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Lucky outlier performance? It's not so much an outlier performance. Rather, it a coach that stubbornly refuses to keep doing what's working. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Nearly every time Daboll comes out with a run based, play action attack the Giants offense led by Jones responds well. Conversely, nearly every time Daboll comes out with a 4 wide, shot gun based attack, this team and Jones struggles mightily. If you opened your eyes, you would see this.
How many times did Daboll go 4-wide Sunday night? I'll wait.
Seriously? Did you not watch the 1st half? Daboll came out with a completely different game plan than the one vs Seattle.
This has been explained to you at least a dozen times in this thread, and at least as many in another thread. Daboll couldn't use the same playbook because Cincy was loading the box, daring your darling to beat them deep.
This is why he seemed none too happy in the post game presser. He is doing everything, except taking the snaps for the guy himself, and he still is getting mediocre to crappy play.
Buffalo actually has been building and emphasizing the run game more the past two seasons. When BD was the OC they had the highest percentage of 4 WR's.
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He's not a big believer in building a top rushing team with the RB's. Former DB playing perimeter ball.
I prefer an offense like Detroit's. Very good running game with the QB under center often maximizing PA.
I agree with this
+1
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Jones averaged 2.2 air yards per attempt.
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.
Jones sucks.
And this is relevant to my post how?
The Giants play in tbe smallest effective field space in the league. Teams have to defend us 15 yards deep and can give up the field side sideline. This is PhD level scheming required to move the ball under these constraints.
Daboll has to build scheme that allows him to essentially tell Jones who to throw to before the snap. And the receiver can only be located in that small box. And all the defenders are near the line of scrimmage to easily stop the run.
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In comment 16648548 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16648543 Section331 said:
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In comment 16648531 Eightshamrocks said:
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Lucky outlier performance? It's not so much an outlier performance. Rather, it a coach that stubbornly refuses to keep doing what's working. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Nearly every time Daboll comes out with a run based, play action attack the Giants offense led by Jones responds well. Conversely, nearly every time Daboll comes out with a 4 wide, shot gun based attack, this team and Jones struggles mightily. If you opened your eyes, you would see this.
How many times did Daboll go 4-wide Sunday night? I'll wait.
Seriously? Did you not watch the 1st half? Daboll came out with a completely different game plan than the one vs Seattle.
This has been explained to you at least a dozen times in this thread, and at least as many in another thread. Daboll couldn't use the same playbook because Cincy was loading the box, daring your darling to beat them deep.
So why not run some two TE sets? Why not bring in an HBack? Why not bring in an extra blocker? Why not run more screens?
And somewhere in the background DJ is yelling "MOM, quit posting, you're embarrassing me!"
Cutlets no passes vs the jets last year and this very conservative route with Jones are Dabol saying I need a QB.
Don't know how he views Lock.
To the President of the DJFC, it’s never Daniel’s fault.
1) Try to do the thing that the Bengals' opponents did successfully, regardless of whether it suited us, or
2) Do the opposite of what we had done successfully before, thinking that the Bengals would prepare to stop our strengths. And wouldn't we fool them?
In either case, he outsmarted himself and he depended on Jones to do things he wasn't good at. As bad as Jones was, we would have won with Nabers.
It's just as likely Jones would have been forcing the ball there and been intercepted 3 times.
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In comment 16648435 Eightshamrocks said:
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In comment 16648433 BrettNYG10 said:
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Jones averaged 2.2 air yards per attempt.
Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes throw the ball past the line of scrimmage.
Jones sucks.
And this is relevant to my post how?
It's at least as relevant as your post was to begin with.
Just another DJ excuse.
We'll never know that will we? Because Daboll didn't even try to replicate the success the offense had against Seattle, vs the Bengals.
This is what you are running for a vet starter in year 6. What does that tell you about the qb and his limitations?
1) Try to do the thing that the Bengals' opponents did successfully, regardless of whether it suited us, or
2) Do the opposite of what we had done successfully before, thinking that the Bengals would prepare to stop our strengths. And wouldn't we fool them?
In either case, he outsmarted himself and he depended on Jones to do things he wasn't good at. As bad as Jones was, we would have won with Nabers.
I have no sympathy for him or Schoen. They knew what they had when they gave him the contract, so being stuck with this guy is tough shit. And if they didn't know, they shouldn't be here.
The last thing I have for either is sympathy.
I think Daboll in the right circumstances could be a very successful coach. But if he hasn't developed the discernment necessary or the equity required to avoid a disaster like Jones, he's not ready.
I think Schoen is a total sucker. The Hard Knocks clip of him complaining about negotiating with Barkley told me everything I need to know about him.