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Bengals vs Giants Game Review – Daniel Jones I’M Done With You Recap! John and Eric look back at the Giants pathetic loss to the Bengals and more importantly look Daniel Jones and his play. They go over why it was worse than it seems and what the Giants SHOULD do with Jones and the quarterback position in general.
What are the three big things the Giants SHOULD do and we talk about the potential loss of Andrew Thomas (which has since been confirmed).
Thanks.
Spotify - Inside BBI - ( New Window )
Thanks.
That sweatshirt may be older than my kids (and they are out of the house). I have no idea.
Eric, come on man. When speaking about this game, drink alcohol my friend.
Amazon Music Link - ( New Window )
Ha, I missed that too. Lol
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I didn't remember calling Daniel a little bitch.
Ha, I missed that too. Lol
Mis-information. He is a big b.....
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I didn't remember calling Daniel a little bitch.
Ha, I missed that too. Lol
Regarding your comment about passing up the extra point attempt at 29-20 - there is a reason for that - a blocked kick return (which just happened to the Seahawks) makes it 29-22 with Seattle getting the ball. That being said, I think it is better not to worry about it and try to go up by 10.
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In comment 16648910 Eric from BBI said:
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I didn't remember calling Daniel a little bitch.
Ha, I missed that too. Lol
Regarding your comment about passing up the extra point attempt at 29-20 - there is a reason for that - a blocked kick return (which just happened to the Seahawks) makes it 29-22 with Seattle getting the ball. That being said, I think it is better not to worry about it and try to go up by 10.
Yeah, I know the "mathematics " but that weird 30 point barrier to me and being up 10 would have meant more.
Worried about a blocked extra point is pretty "scared ball" to me..
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Where did you get that sweatshirt?
Thanks.
That sweatshirt may be older than my kids (and they are out of the house). I have no idea.
Gotcha, my kids wear my old Giants stuff now too.
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In comment 16648930 jvm52106 said:
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In comment 16648910 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I didn't remember calling Daniel a little bitch.
Ha, I missed that too. Lol
Regarding your comment about passing up the extra point attempt at 29-20 - there is a reason for that - a blocked kick return (which just happened to the Seahawks) makes it 29-22 with Seattle getting the ball. That being said, I think it is better not to worry about it and try to go up by 10.
Yeah, I know the "mathematics " but that weird 30 point barrier to me and being up 10 would have meant more.
Worried about a blocked extra point is pretty "scared ball" to me..
Eh. It's smart. You're then up 9 and SEA cannot have any chances to score twice given that amount of time left.
Thanks. Yeah, it's time to just say what can be. Jones does nothing for this team period. I am going to post all over X, Facebook and send directly to the Giants- I want to interview John Mara!
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JVM, I feel exactly the same as you with DeVito. Get him in there and see what he can do. This season is over, time to see if DeVito is at least a nice backup to have for the future. Who knows, guy could come in with a better line than last year and Nabers and play lights out.
Thanks. Yeah, it's time to just say what can be. Jones does nothing for this team period. I am going to post all over X, Facebook and send directly to the Giants- I want to interview John Mara!
Mara can show us his two Super Bowl rings.
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JVM, I feel exactly the same as you with DeVito. Get him in there and see what he can do. This season is over, time to see if DeVito is at least a nice backup to have for the future. Who knows, guy could come in with a better line than last year and Nabers and play lights out.
Thanks. Yeah, it's time to just say what can be. Jones does nothing for this team period. I am going to post all over X, Facebook and send directly to the Giants- I want to interview John Mara!
Be careful, I hear he throws a mean office chair
As for this episode, I agree 100% with you guys. I think the fact that DeVito makes the most sense says a lot about our off season. Lock made no sense. He had no place in our future, he gives them no chance to win if needed. He was a safe choice that offers no competition whatsoever for Jones, regardless of how Jones is playing. At least with Taylor, we would have a shot to win a few games.
So, I agree to DeVito. He's also not an answer for the future as a starter. But, he still has a shot to stick as a cheap backup or #3. More importantly, as you said, at the very least, with a little time, he's going to make throws downfield and add some energy.
That right there is the state of things. Jones being bad at his job is not the story this year. The story is Schoen and Daboll being bad at their jobs.
To answer John's question about which quarterback we want to see start, my answer is Jones. It's what these people deserve, and it's the most likely path to a 4-13 humiliation and losing the locker room.
If Schoen had the stones to tell Mara that much better offensive players can't make Jones a franchise quarterback .We are in qb hell and maybe next years draft will get us that franchise qb that we need and covet but don't hold your breath. Frustration and despair seems to be driving us crazy because we can't get the quarterback back position right. I fear Schoen/Daboll are not the men that can solve our qb dilemma.
You move to Devito, trade Slayton and Ojulari and move towards 2025.
"Therapy". I reply, "Therapy. Eric makes me feel like I am not alone out there wandering the dark, cold nights of Giants football. It is a shared pain. It is a shared grief."
"OK." She wanders off shaking her head slightly.
We know. We know.
"Therapy". I reply, "Therapy. Eric makes me feel like I am not alone out there wandering the dark, cold nights of Giants football. It is a shared pain. It is a shared grief."
"OK." She wanders off shaking her head slightly.
We know. We know.
LOL
Your insult actually gets to the heart of the central contradiction of Jones: despite his physical size and his reputation for being tough, there's something very wimpy about the way he plays. It's not just the lack of touchdowns and impact at home; even in the away games, he seems to only put up just enough points to eeek out a win. He rarely buries teams or hits a kill shot to make it a 2 or 3 score game in the 4th quarter.
That right there is the state of things. Jones being bad at his job is not the story this year. The story is Schoen and Daboll being bad at their jobs.
To answer John's question about which quarterback we want to see start, my answer is Jones. It's what these people deserve, and it's the most likely path to a 4-13 humiliation and losing the locker room.
Joe Schoen & Brian Daboll know exactly what they have in Daniel Jones. This is the Daniel Jones transition year for the Giants whether or not fans approve. Next year starts a new QB cycle for this franchise. It’s possible that Jones may even be the starter at the beginning of 2025, but that would only be because his replacement needs a little time to view things from the sideline before being thrown into the fire.
DJ is the problem here though. He just doesn't challenge anyone in the vertical game, and every D coordinator in the league knows it. Daboll knows it too, you can see it in his interviews.
If Schoen had the stones to tell Mara that much better offensive players can't make Jones a franchise quarterback .We are in qb hell and maybe next years draft will get us that franchise qb that we need and covet but don't hold your breath. Frustration and despair seems to be driving us crazy because we can't get the quarterback back position right. I fear Schoen/Daboll are not the men that can solve our qb dilemma.
In reality, I think there's very little vitriol specifically directed towards Daniel Jones. People are justifiably sick of watching him play QB for the New York Giants, and of the people who inexplicably defend his poor play and puff out their chests every time he has one of his rare strong performances.
It's year six of this shit, and it's exhausting. I have no ill will towards Daniel Jones, I just look forward to the day he's not the QB for this team. I cannot fucking wait.
I do have complete contempt for John Mara. He’s at the epicenter of this mess.
If Schoen had the stones to tell Mara that much better offensive players can't make Jones a franchise quarterback .We are in qb hell and maybe next years draft will get us that franchise qb that we need and covet but don't hold your breath. Frustration and despair seems to be driving us crazy because we can't get the quarterback back position right. I fear Schoen/Daboll are not the men that can solve our qb dilemma.
Ok.
Do you have a boss at your job? One whose family started the company 100 years ago? One so pigheaded and sensitive to criticism that he only accepts credit for the company's success?
I have a feeling you would be replaced quickly after you told them they're wrong.
But for a few lucky breaks in his young football life, Jones would probably have graduated with an Economics degree from Princeton and would currently be one the most popular people at Merrill Lynch's wealth management office in Charlotte.
We know what he is, and he's playing to his best efforts (its what Daboll said). Unless they are tanking, then we wont know that strategy. But Jones needs a change of scenery at this point.
Its hard to be mad at him anymore. Its just bad and getting worse for the franchise. Leadership looks weak.
We know what he is, and he's playing to his best efforts (its what Daboll said). Unless they are tanking, then we wont know that strategy. But Jones needs a change of scenery at this point.
Its hard to be mad at him anymore. Its just bad and getting worse for the franchise. Leadership looks weak.
If you watched the video, it's not anger. As I repeatedly said, the situation just sucks the life out of you. Does anyone actually REALLY look forward to Giants games anymore? Or do you watch out of a morbid sense of impending doom?
The team should be putting their chips in the middle, yes, but not to save the season --to save the franchise. We should be sellers at the trade deadline and we should getting young guys out there. Andre Thomas is out --so be it. Get Neal the hell in there and figure his shit out. If it's ugly, it's ugly. Our wins don't come on the score card, they come in the individual performance of young players on this roster. This is a roster we can win with, we just need a guy behind center that can do what starting caliber NFL QBs do.
We know what he is, and he's playing to his best efforts (its what Daboll said). Unless they are tanking, then we wont know that strategy. But Jones needs a change of scenery at this point.
Its hard to be mad at him anymore. It's just bad and getting worse for the franchise. Leadership looks weak.
We've had 3 different GMs in the past decade.
We've had 5 different PCs in the past decade.
Who's to blame?
I can't see it any other way.
John Mara.
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on Jones. He should sit, no doubt. But at this point....Coach has to bench him. If he can't do that, then he needs to go. I doubt it is Shoen making that call. If its ownership, then not much we can do....but its no longer Jones' "fault" at this point.
We know what he is, and he's playing to his best efforts (its what Daboll said). Unless they are tanking, then we wont know that strategy. But Jones needs a change of scenery at this point.
Its hard to be mad at him anymore. It's just bad and getting worse for the franchise. Leadership looks weak.
We've had 3 different GMs in the past decade.
We've had 5 different PCs in the past decade.
Who's to blame?
I can't see it any other way.
John Mara.
PCs should be HCs.
The team should be putting their chips in the middle, yes, but not to save the season --to save the franchise. We should be sellers at the trade deadline and we should getting young guys out there. Andre Thomas is out --so be it. Get Neal the hell in there and figure his shit out. If it's ugly, it's ugly. Our wins don't come on the score card, they come in the individual performance of young players on this roster. This is a roster we can win with, we just need a guy behind center that can do what starting caliber NFL QBs do.
I think I addressed that in my point- it isn't about the better QB or even about wins (though we might win games and if we did it proves the system works just not Jones), but it is about believing that this organization is looking at being better and different, not tired and accepting..
If I saw him on the street, I would shake his hand. It doesn't mean I don't want a different, better quarterback running our team.
Eric lays it out perfectly. After many night games, you go to bed feeling the life has been sucked out of you and then you remember when you wake up.
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guy. He should have picked a different profession, one where you don't need to make fast decisions. He would be a great veterinarian or pharmacist, I think that was his calling.
But for a few lucky breaks in his young football life, Jones would probably have graduated with an Economics degree from Princeton and would currently be one the most popular people at Merrill Lynch's wealth management office in Charlotte.
and he'd be much happier probably, at least there wouldn't be people all over the internet blasting him
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on Jones. He should sit, no doubt. But at this point....Coach has to bench him. If he can't do that, then he needs to go. I doubt it is Shoen making that call. If its ownership, then not much we can do....but its no longer Jones' "fault" at this point.
We know what he is, and he's playing to his best efforts (its what Daboll said). Unless they are tanking, then we wont know that strategy. But Jones needs a change of scenery at this point.
Its hard to be mad at him anymore. It's just bad and getting worse for the franchise. Leadership looks weak.
We've had 3 different GMs in the past decade.
We've had 5 different PCs in the past decade.
Who's to blame?
I can't see it any other way.
John Mara.
For me, it is more frustration with DJ that he can't execute some pretty basic QB fundamentals. My anger is directed to the front office of the Giants for creating this disfunctional mess and allowing it to continue for so long. That start with John Mara, but is not limited to Mara. The Giants Way now stands for incompetence.
I do have complete contempt for John Mara. He’s at the epicenter of this mess.
This is where I'm at. I'm sure Jones is counting the days to leave the NYC metro area forever.
The fools that paid him can go to hell. And that very much includes Schoen and Daboll, who either supported paying him or were available of convincing Mara that it was stupidity. Either way, they're part of the problem.
I want to see Jones on a bus out of town, permanently. Whatever needs to happen to move that along, do it.
I want to see Jones on a bus out of town, permanently. Whatever needs to happen to move that along, do it.
This ^.
Daniel Jones gives this team the best chance to lose games. The absolute last thing we need is meaningless wins from talentless backups who inject energy into this team. Focus instead on achieving the benefits of hitting rock bottom this year and starting over agin in 2025. This disastrous season was a fait accompli the day that Joe Schoen committed to that ignorant contract with DJ. It was the most fatal act of GM incompetence I have ever seen in any sport. He and DJ can share that bus ride together as far as I am concerned...
I hear ya and I agree 100%! The only contradiction I’ve read to this on BBI is the “concern” that a back-up might actually win a few meaningless games thus depriving the Giants once more of a premium Top 3 draft position.
We've had 3 different GMs in the past decade.
We've had 5 different HCs in the past decade.
Who's to blame?
I can't see it any other way.
John Mara.
Careful, you'll get all of the Mara loyalists pissed. Look, Schoen and Daboll may end up not being the right guys, but both are well-respected NFL personnel and Coach. They didn't become stupid all of a sudden.
They know what a liability Jones is. Daboll has spent his tenure here trying to scheme around it. His post-game presser barely concealed his contempt for Jones - he's working as hard as he can to be as good as he can, what does that even mean? - I think he's frustrated being stuck with Jones.
So is Schoen insisting on Jones playing? Maybe, but I find it hard to believe that he would ignore his HC pleading to make a change.
Now, I don't think Mara has put a "you have to play Daniel" edict down, but I do think he likely said "you guys decided to pay him, you need to figure it out."
I've been "Team Daniel" for a very long time, but it's painfully clear that he is NOT the answer, and in fact, he's a big reason the Giants don't have a slightly better record this season, specifically.
It's baffling to me that Brian Daboll is sticking with it ... maybe to the point that he'll ride Jones right out of a head coaching job sooner rather than later. Like you both, I don't want to see Jones under center this weekend, but know we will.
I've joked that I wonder if there are so many QB keeper types of plays because deep down, Daboll knows that an injured Daniel Jones is the only way he can get away with starting someone else. Maybe I'm not even joking at this point.
Anyhow, this sucks ... but you guys are doing good stuff. As always, thanks.
“It’s not the 70s, people aren’t just going to come back to this”
I've been "Team Daniel" for a very long time, but it's painfully clear that he is NOT the answer, and in fact, he's a big reason the Giants don't have a slightly better record this season, specifically.
It's baffling to me that Brian Daboll is sticking with it ... maybe to the point that he'll ride Jones right out of a head coaching job sooner rather than later. Like you both, I don't want to see Jones under center this weekend, but know we will.
I've joked that I wonder if there are so many QB keeper types of plays because deep down, Daboll knows that an injured Daniel Jones is the only way he can get away with starting someone else. Maybe I'm not even joking at this point.
Anyhow, this sucks ... but you guys are doing good stuff. As always, thanks.
Thanks!
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on Jones. He should sit, no doubt. But at this point....Coach has to bench him. If he can't do that, then he needs to go. I doubt it is Shoen making that call. If its ownership, then not much we can do....but its no longer Jones' "fault" at this point.
We know what he is, and he's playing to his best efforts (its what Daboll said). Unless they are tanking, then we wont know that strategy. But Jones needs a change of scenery at this point.
Its hard to be mad at him anymore. Its just bad and getting worse for the franchise. Leadership looks weak.
If you watched the video, it's not anger. As I repeatedly said, the situation just sucks the life out of you. Does anyone actually REALLY look forward to Giants games anymore? Or do you watch out of a morbid sense of impending doom?
Go get a coach, a GM, an owner, whatever, but do SOMETHING!
I disagree with you here. Whenever a player isn't the one crapping the bed, they are the greatest. See Cutlets. THAT SAID, They can't keep Jones in. He WILL get injured. We Will be stuck with him and we will get screwed. I think you run Lock out there let him 'develop' or crap the bed. Wind up with better picks in 2025, lose a little more of the fan base, and pick a QB in the spring. Let DJ go to Minnesota, Seattle or Carolina to become the best regular season QB only to get crushed in the playoffs. We need to move on.
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Gives them less possibility of talking themselves back into Jones
I disagree with you here. Whenever a player isn't the one crapping the bed, they are the greatest. See Cutlets. THAT SAID, They can't keep Jones in. He WILL get injured. We Will be stuck with him and we will get screwed. I think you run Lock out there let him 'develop' or crap the bed. Wind up with better picks in 2025, lose a little more of the fan base, and pick a QB in the spring. Let DJ go to Minnesota, Seattle or Carolina to become the best regular season QB only to get crushed in the playoffs. We need to move on.
DJ is coming back next year. The way the contract is constructed, it is a virtual certainty. Why take a big dead cap hit by cutting him when for the same marginal cost of a backup he can simply be that guy? So the injury issue is frankly moot. Next year he will either be a backup or a bridge to the guy they draft in 2025. And then, at some point in January 2026, there will be a shout of freedom such that the world has never heard when he is finally cut.
So the best course of action is to have DJ start the rest of the season. This does two things: 1) it gives this team the best chance to lose the most possible games in 2024 and best possible draft position for 2025 and 2) Mara will finally capitulate to the self-evident fact that it has always been DJ who was weakest link for this offense and the primary problem with this team. And the entire narrative that the "Giants let DJ down" will be permanently and forever replaced with "it was Mara/Gettleman/Schoen/DJ who let the Giants franchise and its fans down for these six years".
The true vitriol on this site is from that group of posters on here the attacked anybody being critical of his play for years. That group may have gotten smaller and more silent (out of pure embarrassment), but they still very much exist.
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In comment 16649392 ajr2456 said:
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Gives them less possibility of talking themselves back into Jones
I disagree with you here. Whenever a player isn't the one crapping the bed, they are the greatest. See Cutlets. THAT SAID, They can't keep Jones in. He WILL get injured. We Will be stuck with him and we will get screwed. I think you run Lock out there let him 'develop' or crap the bed. Wind up with better picks in 2025, lose a little more of the fan base, and pick a QB in the spring. Let DJ go to Minnesota, Seattle or Carolina to become the best regular season QB only to get crushed in the playoffs. We need to move on.
DJ is coming back next year. The way the contract is constructed, it is a virtual certainty. Why take a big dead cap hit by cutting him when for the same marginal cost of a backup he can simply be that guy? So the injury issue is frankly moot. Next year he will either be a backup or a bridge to the guy they draft in 2025. And then, at some point in January 2026, there will be a shout of freedom such that the world has never heard when he is finally cut.
So the best course of action is to have DJ start the rest of the season. This does two things: 1) it gives this team the best chance to lose the most possible games in 2024 and best possible draft position for 2025 and 2) Mara will finally capitulate to the self-evident fact that it has always been DJ who was weakest link for this offense and the primary problem with this team. And the entire narrative that the "Giants let DJ down" will be permanently and forever replaced with "it was Mara/Gettleman/Schoen/DJ who let the Giants franchise and its fans down for these six years".
Sorry, you lost me.
If we cut Jones next year, we eat $22mil in dead cap. If we keep Jones next year he makes around $40 million correct?
"The Giants are Back!..."
My ass.
The true vitriol on this site is from that group of posters on here the attacked anybody being critical of his play for years. That group may have gotten smaller and more silent (out of pure embarrassment), but they still very much exist.
This
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In comment 16648930 jvm52106 said:
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In comment 16648910 Eric from BBI said:
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I didn't remember calling Daniel a little bitch.
Ha, I missed that too. Lol
Regarding your comment about passing up the extra point attempt at 29-20 - there is a reason for that - a blocked kick return (which just happened to the Seahawks) makes it 29-22 with Seattle getting the ball. That being said, I think it is better not to worry about it and try to go up by 10.
Yeah, I know the "mathematics " but that weird 30 point barrier to me and being up 10 would have meant more.
Worried about a blocked extra point is pretty "scared ball" to me..
It's not scared call there is literally no practical reason to go for 30. Even if they did go for 30, it's not like all of those 30 were by the offense, so who cares?
And why is that?
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In comment 16649451 Dinger said:
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In comment 16649392 ajr2456 said:
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Gives them less possibility of talking themselves back into Jones
I disagree with you here. Whenever a player isn't the one crapping the bed, they are the greatest. See Cutlets. THAT SAID, They can't keep Jones in. He WILL get injured. We Will be stuck with him and we will get screwed. I think you run Lock out there let him 'develop' or crap the bed. Wind up with better picks in 2025, lose a little more of the fan base, and pick a QB in the spring. Let DJ go to Minnesota, Seattle or Carolina to become the best regular season QB only to get crushed in the playoffs. We need to move on.
DJ is coming back next year. The way the contract is constructed, it is a virtual certainty. Why take a big dead cap hit by cutting him when for the same marginal cost of a backup he can simply be that guy? So the injury issue is frankly moot. Next year he will either be a backup or a bridge to the guy they draft in 2025. And then, at some point in January 2026, there will be a shout of freedom such that the world has never heard when he is finally cut.
So the best course of action is to have DJ start the rest of the season. This does two things: 1) it gives this team the best chance to lose the most possible games in 2024 and best possible draft position for 2025 and 2) Mara will finally capitulate to the self-evident fact that it has always been DJ who was weakest link for this offense and the primary problem with this team. And the entire narrative that the "Giants let DJ down" will be permanently and forever replaced with "it was Mara/Gettleman/Schoen/DJ who let the Giants franchise and its fans down for these six years".
Sorry, you lost me.
If we cut Jones next year, we eat $22mil in dead cap. If we keep Jones next year he makes around $40 million correct?
My understanding is it is closer to thirty... So the incremental of keeping him is less than ten. Christian has made this case on other posts.
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In comment 16649482 The Mike said:
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In comment 16649451 Dinger said:
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In comment 16649392 ajr2456 said:
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Gives them less possibility of talking themselves back into Jones
I disagree with you here. Whenever a player isn't the one crapping the bed, they are the greatest. See Cutlets. THAT SAID, They can't keep Jones in. He WILL get injured. We Will be stuck with him and we will get screwed. I think you run Lock out there let him 'develop' or crap the bed. Wind up with better picks in 2025, lose a little more of the fan base, and pick a QB in the spring. Let DJ go to Minnesota, Seattle or Carolina to become the best regular season QB only to get crushed in the playoffs. We need to move on.
DJ is coming back next year. The way the contract is constructed, it is a virtual certainty. Why take a big dead cap hit by cutting him when for the same marginal cost of a backup he can simply be that guy? So the injury issue is frankly moot. Next year he will either be a backup or a bridge to the guy they draft in 2025. And then, at some point in January 2026, there will be a shout of freedom such that the world has never heard when he is finally cut.
So the best course of action is to have DJ start the rest of the season. This does two things: 1) it gives this team the best chance to lose the most possible games in 2024 and best possible draft position for 2025 and 2) Mara will finally capitulate to the self-evident fact that it has always been DJ who was weakest link for this offense and the primary problem with this team. And the entire narrative that the "Giants let DJ down" will be permanently and forever replaced with "it was Mara/Gettleman/Schoen/DJ who let the Giants franchise and its fans down for these six years".
Sorry, you lost me.
If we cut Jones next year, we eat $22mil in dead cap. If we keep Jones next year he makes around $40 million correct?
My understanding is it is closer to thirty... So the incremental of keeping him is less than ten. Christian has made this case on other posts.
That is conflating numbers. The Giants owe Daniel Jones 22 million is cap dollars from his signing bonus, which is prorated over the 2 years left on the contract. Soz if the Giants cut him, they take the full cap hit in 2025, rather than 11 in 2025 and 11 in 2026. If the Giants keep him, Jones gets an additional 30 million in base salary for 2025. So the additional cost of keeping him is 30 million.
Basically, if Jones is cut this offseason, they have 22 million against the 2025 cap and nothing on the 2026 cap. If they keep him for next year, it's 41 million against the cap for 2025, and 11 on the cap for 2026. The point being, bringing Jones back is a 30 million dollar proposition
We know, the bad games don’t count and only the good ones do.
Basically, if Jones is cut this offseason, they have 22 million against the 2025 cap and nothing on the 2026 cap. If they keep him for next year, it's 41 million against the cap for 2025, and 11 on the cap for 2026. The point being, bringing Jones back is a 30 million dollar proposition
Really, this is the correct math?
It would be insane to have dollars attributable to Jones under the 2026 cap. Even as a backup.
- If they cut Jones after this season they have 22.21M left to account for
- If he's a Giant in 2025 they 22.21M + 30.5M = 52.71M left to account for
They have the tools to divvy up those numbers across 1 or 2 years (via post June designation, void years, etc.)
The reason I believe Jones has a strong chance of returning in the event he has a moderately productive season, is that in terms of real new money he would cost 30.5M.
That's not a huge sum of money for a 1-year bridge guy, with nothing guaranteed after.
- If they cut Jones after this season they have 22.21M left to account for
- If he's a Giant in 2025 they 22.21M + 30.5M = 52.71M left to account for
They have the tools to divvy up those numbers across 1 or 2 years (via post June designation, void years, etc.)
The reason I believe Jones has a strong chance of returning in the event he has a moderately productive season, is that in terms of real new money he would cost 30.5M.
That's not a huge sum of money for a 1-year bridge guy, with nothing guaranteed after.
I disagree pretty heavily on that last point. If they truly are looking for a bridge, 30 million is extremely high.
Recent examples of bridge QB contracts:
Minshew - 2024 - $25 million over 2 years
Darnold - 2024 - $10 million for 1 year
Brisket - 2024 - $8 million for 1 year
Mayfield - 2023 - $4 million for 1 year
My reaction to the Seattle game was basically "So what? Daniel Jones still sucks." That reaction made you angry.
What reaction do you want?
I knew that would get me in trouble as soon as I said it.
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Looking forward to seeing the game thread reactions if we take a lead against Philly on Sunday.
My reaction to the Seattle game was basically "So what? Daniel Jones still sucks." That reaction made you angry.
What reaction do you want?
Jones could throw for 599 yards and 4 tds Sunday and it wouldn’t matter. It’s over
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Looking forward to seeing the game thread reactions if we take a lead against Philly on Sunday.
My reaction to the Seattle game was basically "So what? Daniel Jones still sucks." That reaction made you angry.
What reaction do you want?
Is this supposed to be an argument?
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The easiest way to think about the cap implications is to not worry about the years, but just focus on the dollars.
- If they cut Jones after this season they have 22.21M left to account for
- If he's a Giant in 2025 they 22.21M + 30.5M = 52.71M left to account for
They have the tools to divvy up those numbers across 1 or 2 years (via post June designation, void years, etc.)
The reason I believe Jones has a strong chance of returning in the event he has a moderately productive season, is that in terms of real new money he would cost 30.5M.
That's not a huge sum of money for a 1-year bridge guy, with nothing guaranteed after.
I disagree pretty heavily on that last point. If they truly are looking for a bridge, 30 million is extremely high.
Recent examples of bridge QB contracts:
Minshew - 2024 - $25 million over 2 years
Darnold - 2024 - $10 million for 1 year
Brisket - 2024 - $8 million for 1 year
Mayfield - 2023 - $4 million for 1 year
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Sounds familiar....
I knew that would get me in trouble as soon as I said it.
The real number is 19.3 mil. If we cut him after this year, the cap savings is 19.3. You can spread out the signing bonus, but the savings don't change, just the year it gets applied to. That 19.3 mil is what you'll have to replace him. I don't know who the replacement candidates are or what they'll cost.
The goal, assuming we draft a QB, then sit him for a year, is to win games. We know that isn't happening with DJ. Should he turn things around and learn how to win, we're having an entirely different discussion. I would not, barring some modest improvement, pay DJ 19.3 mil. If we're going to lose, just pay some schmuck 5 mil, and spend the other 14 mil to keep whomever this year's Mckinney is, or bring in a FA.
I'd only pay 19 mil to a QB that gives us a good chance at the playoffs. DJ isn't in that category.
I think the mostly likely sequence of events that lead to Daboll + Schoen both being retained is Jones playing at/near his 2022 level.
So if Jones is coming off a reasonably good season, what might they do? I think it's very likely they would choose to pay Jones 30M for 2025 and attempt to draft his replacement.
I don't think the cap accounting will factor heavily. What will factor heavily is how much new compensation Jones earns.
Keep this in mind, for the 2023 and 2024 season he earned 41M a year. Keeping him for 2025 is a full 10M cheaper.
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Looking forward to seeing the game thread reactions if we take a lead against Philly on Sunday.
Is this supposed to be an argument?
Unless Jones suddenly becomes the QB he's never been, a win is a sugar high and little more.
I think the mostly likely sequence of events that lead to Daboll + Schoen both being retained is Jones playing at/near his 2022 level.
So if Jones is coming off a reasonably good season, what might they do? I think it's very likely they would choose to pay Jones 30M for 2025 and attempt to draft his replacement.
I don't think the cap accounting will factor heavily. What will factor heavily is how much new compensation Jones earns.
Keep this in mind, for the 2023 and 2024 season he earned 41M a year. Keeping him for 2025 is a full 10M cheaper.
Would you say he's had a reasonably good year, so far? With the exception of a couple of really awful games, he hasn't sucked. His accuracy (at all levels) is iffy, and points haven't been there. To be fair, his team mates have had drops/fumbles at inopportune times.
In a scenario where it's a close call, the cap loses some relevancy. In a scenario where Schoen/Daboll see an available replacement equal to DJ at half the cost, the cap absolutely comes in to play.
If that makes me a 'bad fan', so be it. I'm sick & fucking tired of watching this shit.
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Jones...
Three home games: 0 TDs, 4 INTs.
Three road games: 6 TDs, 0 INTs.
I hope we beat the fucking pants off of Philly on Sunday but it doesn't change the fact that Daniel Jones is inconsistent at best and is done here.
I hope we beat the fucking pants off of Philly on Sunday but it doesn't change the fact that Daniel Jones is inconsistent at best and is done here.
They are very beatable for sure.
And icing on the cake would be neutralizing Barkley and Tracy/Singletary out-performing him.
If that makes me a 'bad fan', so be it. I'm sick & fucking tired of watching this shit.
I'm much more concerned on the bigger picture items:
1. Who is the GM in January 2025?
2. Who is the HC in January 2025?
3. What is the approach towards QB for 2025?
Nothing else really matters. It really sucks because I did really like Schoen & Daboll. I think Daboll has a chance to be a good head coach. But, Jones just clouds everything. And it's year 6 of Jones with NYG and year 3 of Jones with this regime.
It's hard to be enthusiastic about this regime picking their own QB when they'd be entering year 4 without any real progress.
Keep this in mind, for the 2023 and 2024 season he earned 41M a year. Keeping him for 2025 is a full 10M cheaper.
Would you say he's had a reasonably good year, so far? With the exception of a couple of really awful games, he hasn't sucked. His accuracy (at all levels) is iffy, and points haven't been there. To be fair, his team mates have had drops/fumbles at inopportune times.
In a scenario where it's a close call, the cap loses some relevancy. In a scenario where Schoen/Daboll see an available replacement equal to DJ at half the cost, the cap absolutely comes in to play.
I think the Giants will judge him on the full body of work in 2024. If the Giants win 7 games and he goes 3500/20/10, I think that favors Jones for two reasons:
1) They'll likely be picking outside of the top 5 and not control their destiny in landing one of the top college QBs
2) 12M of his 30M salary is guaranteed a month before the draft
That means they'd have to cut Jones before pro days are even complete. Otherwise they have to put a down payment they don't get back.
In that scenario I think they just keep him as insurance and go into the draft hoping for the best.
He's like the girlfriend you think could be marriage material one day, but she just keeps making bad decisions. At some point you can't risk it.
Or in this case, clean the infected wound.
Leaving him on is just more malaise.
But I dont think Schoen gave himself an escape hatch. I think he gave himself a slush fund
Jones contract was constructed so that Y1 gave them room to add for a 2 year run and then they create more room in Y3 by using Jones contract by converting money to sign more players. The Giants have done the FA splurge with McAdoo in 2016, Judge in 2021 and Daboll in 2022. It was planned again
They already did this by tapping into the well before the ink was dry.
“New York has restructured Jones' contract just days before the start of the 2023 season, per ESPN. The Giants created $6.315 million in cap space by converting $8.42 million of Jones's salary into a signing bonus. Jones' cap figures increased by $2.105 million in each of the 2024, 2025, and 2026 seasons as a result. “
If this was planned to be an out, why make it a more expensive one before it even started? Its 22 mil now but it was under 20 when it was signed
Overall, what a bad position this team has put itself in. The coach feels a need to claw out a few wins to save his job, but those wins that help keep his job may take us out of range to draft a QB next year. We also now have a starting QB with a large injury guarantee and no left tackle to protect him.
It feels like we're staring at the headlights of a car coming towards us and can't get out of the way.
There is no fucking way he is being brought back under any circumstances unless he starts winning at home, and these wins have to happen on Sunday and the next home game against Washington.
In fact, if he flops against Philly and they lose, I give him a 50 percent chance of even making it to the Washington game. There's a reason Banks and Schwartz are grumbling pretty loud.
1-7-1 at Metlife since the Barkley 35-carry game against the Texas in 2022. 5 touchdown passes, 10 interceptions in that span. 0 touchdowns, 8 incerceptions in his last five home games.
Forget whether Schoen and Daboll want to live and die with Jones, I think there might be an outside chance that Mara nudges for a change if there's a few more home embarrassments.
He is BAD. He has always been bad.
In 2021 he went 1-5 and set an NFL record for lowest TDs to pass attempts in NFL history with 2 TDs to over 180 passes.
1-14 on prime time didn’t happen in the last few weeks.
Some of you keep saying he is gone, the Giants cant keep him. They cant go on like this
They have been for 6 years!
They just rolled it back after Jones went 1-5 with 2 TDs in 150+ pass attempts (the second worst ever to his own record)
They rolled it back despite having the 6 pick in a QB draft . Despite having guys like Russell Wilson, Sam Darnold, Joe Flacco, and Andy Dalton available as free agents. Justin Fields available by trade for peanuts.
What Im saying is - this isnt different. Its been this way. Why would we expect the Giants to suddenly see there is a problem and do something about it?
He is BAD. He has always been bad.
In 2021 he went 1-5 and set an NFL record for lowest TDs to pass attempts in NFL history with 2 TDs to over 180 passes.
1-14 on prime time didn’t happen in the last few weeks.
Some of you keep saying he is gone, the Giants cant keep him. They cant go on like this
They have been for 6 years!
They just rolled it back after Jones went 1-5 with 2 TDs in 150+ pass attempts (the second worst ever to his own record)
They rolled it back despite having the 6 pick in a QB draft . Despite having guys like Russell Wilson, Sam Darnold, Joe Flacco, and Andy Dalton available as free agents. Justin Fields available by trade for peanuts.
What Im saying is - this isnt different. Its been this way. Why would we expect the Giants to suddenly see there is a problem and do something about it?
Mostly because they've exhausted all available excuses and the recency bias for continuing with him (2022 season) is fading.
His league-worst 2023 was an anamoly. His 2022 was also an anamoly. He is now what he's always been: around the 23-26th best QB, but now the home/away splits have become comically imbalanced to the point where he's unplayable at home. He was never this bad at home even at his worst. So you now you have people like Banks getting fed up. Philly and Maybe Washington are his last stand.
If that makes me a 'bad fan', so be it. I'm sick & fucking tired of watching this shit.
First, agreed - I would play golf with my friends 100 times out of 100 over watching the Giants. Maybe even with my enemies..
More to the point of apathy, i don't think there is a single post on here about the game this week. On Thursday. Against the friggin Eagles. With Saquon. And still, as crazy as it sounds, not eliminated from winning the division. And I get it. I agree. But it truly is amazing if you step back and think about it.
This has to end, the sooner the better.
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I believe both Eric & John hit on it, but it can't be understated...it is amazing-AMAZING-how apathetic most of this fan base is @ this point. The Giants have beaten their most diehard fans into the ground. A friend of mine got a tee time for 12:30 on Sunday & asked me if I'm game & the Giants being on @ 1 didn't even cross my mind until like 5 other considerations popped up. I have no interest in watching Daniel Jones play. None.
If that makes me a 'bad fan', so be it. I'm sick & fucking tired of watching this shit.
First, agreed - I would play golf with my friends 100 times out of 100 over watching the Giants. Maybe even with my enemies..
More to the point of apathy, i don't think there is a single post on here about the game this week. On Thursday. Against the friggin Eagles. With Saquon. And still, as crazy as it sounds, not eliminated from winning the division. And I get it. I agree. But it truly is amazing if you step back and think about it.
Try and find a Giants player or coach who even talks about winning or expressing a desire to win. I mean beyond platitudes like “we want to win every game” etc. Daboll now refers to it as the “result we want” .
He is BAD. He has always been bad.
In 2021 he went 1-5 and set an NFL record for lowest TDs to pass attempts in NFL history with 2 TDs to over 180 passes.
1-14 on prime time didn’t happen in the last few weeks.
Some of you keep saying he is gone, the Giants cant keep him. They cant go on like this
They have been for 6 years!
They just rolled it back after Jones went 1-5 with 2 TDs in 150+ pass attempts (the second worst ever to his own record)
They rolled it back despite having the 6 pick in a QB draft . Despite having guys like Russell Wilson, Sam Darnold, Joe Flacco, and Andy Dalton available as free agents. Justin Fields available by trade for peanuts.
What Im saying is - this isnt different. Its been this way. Why would we expect the Giants to suddenly see there is a problem and do something about it?
Yessir. Truth again.
This has to end, the sooner the better.
One key factor is so many other units are putting their weight. Defense leads the league in sacks, OL is performing decently. At some point it won't matter how much he is personally liked.
There's no more Schmeelk or Dottino damage control to be had if that trend continues. At some point Dex or Burns is going to lose it in a post-game presser and that's that. Probably this very next game.
Jones manages to throw just 1 TD pass in a 3 game win streak and people somehow thought this was good and freaked out when he injured his hamstring
The Giants actually pull their biggest win of the season or in many seasons at Seattle with his backup Colt McCoy and Jones returns to the lineup to get absolutely trucked by the Cardinals at home throwing just for 127 yards and vs Baltimore
However Jones manages his best game of year the last week of season with a win over Dallas and he had 227 yds 2 TDs and an INT as suddenly all is forgotten as the 6-10 Giants were “robbed” of the playoffs
Jones threw 11 TDs to 10 INTs with under 3000 yds passing on the season. And had 5 wins
Yet here we are 4 years later. There is no bottom for Jones
I remember his fans continuing to bring up his three big games from his rookie year and getting annoyed whenever anyone pointed out how bad those defenses were.
On December 22, 2019, Jones threw 5 TDs against the Redskins. It was his 11th start. 54 starts later, it remains the last time he threw more than two TDs in a game.
For the life of my ryan, I don't get why you still white knight the guy. He only provides you with 4-5 barely-credible opportunities a year to pat yourself on the back and say everyone else was wrong, and it's pretty obvious you'd like more than that. Why stick with Jones? He's not going to grant them.
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Jones' NFL future wasn't looking so bright, and play matched his college scouting reports more often than not. He's just only ever excelled versus mediocre or worse defenses. It's that simple in my view.
I remember his fans continuing to bring up his three big games from his rookie year and getting annoyed whenever anyone pointed out how bad those defenses were.
On December 22, 2019, Jones threw 5 TDs against the Redskins. It was his 11th start. 54 starts later, it remains the last time he threw more than two TDs in a game.
It certainly was a harbinger of things to follow.
Totally agree that there just isn’t any excitement watching the Giants
Yes, and no.
Giants obviously want better than what they're getting. If they don't, there's no point in following the Giants. They flirted with drafting a QB last year. My thought is that they signed him to that deal with the forecast that he'll improve as they add pieces around him. Instead, he stunk up the joint, suffered another neck injury, then an ACL. Two more injuries to his long history. This year, he's worse than ever with the long ball. I don't remember ever being this bad deep. This year, they're struggling to score.
So, on the one hand, why expect change? Hope for a new QB and a brighter tomorrow fades.
On the other hand, they got him a top WR. They got him a functional OL. He hasn't responded all that well, and he is the leader of an O that isn't winning. Hope for a brighter tomorrow revolves around Schoen/Daboll (or whomever replaces Dabs) feeling their seats getting warm and/or them finally realizing DJ can't pilot the Giants to a winning season.
Things have changed. There's another year of meh, at best. There's another couple of injuries. The long ball has gotten worse.
Much, of course, revolves around the remainder of the season. Going 5-6 will be an accomplishment, and while I would welcome it (except at draft time), I'm not holding my breath. Does his accuracy improve, or does he continue to miss wide open receivers? Will the OL fall to shit without AT, giving DJ an excuse? Does he suffer yet another injury?
And, the big worry is that excuses get too much weight. We could have won a couple more games so far except for the kicker situation and some untimely drops/fumbles. It isn't all the fault of DJ.
Jones manages to throw just 1 TD pass in a 3 game win streak and people somehow thought this was good and freaked out when he injured his hamstring
The Giants actually pull their biggest win of the season or in many seasons at Seattle with his backup Colt McCoy and Jones returns to the lineup to get absolutely trucked by the Cardinals at home throwing just for 127 yards and vs Baltimore
However Jones manages his best game of year the last week of season with a win over Dallas and he had 227 yds 2 TDs and an INT as suddenly all is forgotten as the 6-10 Giants were “robbed” of the playoffs
Jones threw 11 TDs to 10 INTs with under 3000 yds passing on the season. And had 5 wins
Yet here we are 4 years later. There is no bottom for Jones
No argument from me, I also thought 2020 showed everything you needed to see from him. I tuned out for most of that season due to being completely unexcited about Judge and the roster plus the weird Covid era, but I did get interested enough to try and watch that Cardinals game and lasted about 15 minutes.
Nevertheless, the Giants - in their glacier-like pace to move on anything - were of course going to run it back with him in 2021. It's much different in 2024 with a much improved roster and large contract. There's no hiding for him and I'm leaning toward him being benched if they flop in these upcoming home division games.
And, the big worry is that excuses get too much weight. We could have won a couple more games so far except for the kicker situation and some untimely drops/fumbles. It isn't all the fault of DJ.
Good post, but on this point: Everyone but the Natan Peterman's of the world can probably fall assbackward into throwing a TD at home in five games, nevermind throwing zero TDs and 8 INTs. There isn't any legit excuse the org can use for him in this regard and that's why Banks went in on him this week.
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And, the big worry is that excuses get too much weight. We could have won a couple more games so far except for the kicker situation and some untimely drops/fumbles. It isn't all the fault of DJ.
Good post, but on this point: Everyone but the Natan Peterman's of the world can probably fall assbackward into throwing a TD at home in five games, nevermind throwing zero TDs and 8 INTs. There isn't any legit excuse the org can use for him in this regard and that's why Banks went in on him this week.
There may not be objectively legitimate excuses, sure, but there will still be excuses!
How could any franchise keep sending out such a ridiculous performer year in and year out?
Insane.
I want to see Jones on a bus out of town, permanently. Whatever needs to happen to move that along, do it.
If Jones gets seriously injured there will be no bus with a seat assigned to him headed out of town….
How could any franchise keep sending out such a ridiculous performer year in and year out?
Insane.
If you take away the 24 TD passes in the 13 played games in his rookie season, he's thrown 44 in 53 games since.
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Has there ever been in the Super Bowl era anything quite as remarkable as a guy this bad who never loses his job?
How could any franchise keep sending out such a ridiculous performer year in and year out?
Insane.
If you take away the 24 TD passes in the 13 played games in his rookie season, he's thrown 44 in 53 games since.
If any of my corners or safeties allowed a Daniel Jones touchdown pass, I would bench them for the next game.
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Has there ever been in the Super Bowl era anything quite as remarkable as a guy this bad who never loses his job?
How could any franchise keep sending out such a ridiculous performer year in and year out?
Insane.
If you take away the 24 TD passes in the 13 played games in his rookie season, he's thrown 44 in 53 games since.
I think your response actually answers the question posed above: after the Jones pick was completely blasted by the media, ownership saw Jones perform very well in some games his rookie year. They probably felt more than a little satisfaction from being vindicated, and they probably want a reason to feel it again.