As much as we want Jones to be bench and not play, he is the best quarterback the Giants have; second until we are eliminated from the playoffs, he will continue to be the starter. And as much as fans wants the young guys in the game and to lose to get a higher draft pick (which i can understand), these players are playing for their jobs, whether if it with us next season or a different team. It's a job just like us, we keep working at our work unless we get let go or leave.
I am never going to tell fans how they should root for their team and respect their opinion. We can see the defense getting better, especially the secondary. I think the defense will keep us in games and maybe we win some games. Regarding the offense, it does hurt losing Thomas for the year, but its next man up mentality; let's see how Ezeudu & Neal are like with this coach. Jones has been very inconsistent especially at home. If we want to win vs the Eagles and these home games, we have to score points (especially in the redzone). Until I see the Giants offense score points at home like the road and Jones being consistent in multiple games (not just 1), I don't see things changing. We do get Nabers back, so that's a plus. I will always be a fan, watch the games to root for my team, & hope things get better. Just have to take it 1 game at a time and hope for the best.
I do think Daboll & Schoen will be back in 2025. Just like anyone else, they will make mistakes. If we have a losing record, they will get a chance to draft their quarterback. You need to have continuity within the organization. You want the team to improve and make working for the Giants a great place. Just like any business, you want to have a good reputation & attract people by maintaining it. Would you want to work somewhere where people keep getting fire left and right every year or two? Of course not.
True, but if any of us performed at our jobs like DJ or the Giants as a whole performed at theirs, how long do you think we'd stay employed? 6 years apparently.
Continuity only matters if you have the right people. I am not sure we have the right people.
When he is leading the offense, we barely ever score touchdowns. The last several years prove this. Even successful drives are like epic marches through the desert that typically wind up with a negative play in the red zone that kills it or ends with a field goal attempt.
My opinion is to bench him because he provides no value other than sacrificing his body running into the line of scrimmage for an occasional first down. And hell, we can bring him in for a few plays to do that.
If Daboll is trying to win games and sneak into the playoffs, he should bench Jones and play DeVito. Jones is an anchor on this offense.
When he is leading the offense, we barely ever score touchdowns. The last several years prove this. Even successful drives are like epic marches through the desert that typically wind up with a negative play in the red zone that kills it or ends with a field goal attempt.
My opinion is to bench him because he provides no value other than sacrificing his body running into the line of scrimmage for an occasional first down. And hell, we can bring him in for a few plays to do that.
You watched different games than me if you think Devito is better than Jones...
Quote:
We won more games and scored more points without him.
When he is leading the offense, we barely ever score touchdowns. The last several years prove this. Even successful drives are like epic marches through the desert that typically wind up with a negative play in the red zone that kills it or ends with a field goal attempt.
My opinion is to bench him because he provides no value other than sacrificing his body running into the line of scrimmage for an occasional first down. And hell, we can bring him in for a few plays to do that.
You watched different games than me if you think Devito is better than Jones...
Devito certainly played just as well if not better. And that's with only a few rookie starts under his belt versus Jones' 60+.
See it through.
True, but if any of us performed at our jobs like DJ or the Giants as a whole performed at theirs, how long do you think we'd stay employed? 6 years apparently.
I agree that they been giving a lot of chances with Jones and he has the rest of the season to prove otherwise. Think of it this way: you at a company where you are not doing a great job, but at the same time, you are getting the proper guidance and part of a bad team. In that scenerio, it's both parties fault. Now you would think giving better training/team would make the employee be better. Now Jones has that and so far he hasn't improve. Most likely he is gone after this season, but we have to take 1 game at a time.
Continuity only matters if you have the right people. I am not sure we have the right people.
I agree, but you have to give Schoen/Daboll another year (maybe 2 if they draft a quarterback); now if things don't improve next season, then changes would need to be made. If things get better, then they are the right people. I know this is a result oriented business but you can't fire people every 2 year. You have to let it play out.
I agree that Jones has been inconsistent, doesn't win in big moments, & hasn't elevated the team. All I can say is if we have a losing season, we getting a quarterback in this draft (or maybe free agency if we don't draft); if we turn things around and Jones plays well consistently and we go to the playoffs, most likely he comes back. We have to see how this season plays out.
Quote:
We kept Gettleman for 4 years in the name of continuity, and we never once had a winning record in his 4 years. We have had continuity at QB with the 5th longest tenured QB in the league.
Continuity only matters if you have the right people. I am not sure we have the right people.
I agree, but you have to give Schoen/Daboll another year (maybe 2 if they draft a quarterback); now if things don't improve next season, then changes would need to be made. If things get better, then they are the right people. I know this is a result oriented business but you can't fire people every 2 year. You have to let it play out.
The counterargument to that is why would you let two people make a second consequential decision on a QB when they so badly missed on their first decision?
Daboll has a reputation as some sort of QB expert based on the development of Josh Allen, and Josh Allen alone. I’m not sure I agree that provides a ton of evidence about his expertise, or that Allen wouldn’t have developed just as fine without any one of 20 other coaches.
When he is leading the offense, we barely ever score touchdowns. The last several years prove this. Even successful drives are like epic marches through the desert that typically wind up with a negative play in the red zone that kills it or ends with a field goal attempt.
My opinion is to bench him because he provides no value other than sacrificing his body running into the line of scrimmage for an occasional first down. And hell, we can bring him in for a few plays to do that.
Jones wasn't great last year, but the offensive line was terrible as well. Even Tyrod & Devito was getting sack/pressure under center. This year we have more time of possession and moving the ball: the problem is we not finishing drive. I understand where you are coming from about benching Jones, but we know that's not going to happen. There is alot of games left & until were eliminated or if he gets hurt, Jones will be under center.
Quote:
We kept Gettleman for 4 years in the name of continuity, and we never once had a winning record in his 4 years. We have had continuity at QB with the 5th longest tenured QB in the league.
Continuity only matters if you have the right people. I am not sure we have the right people.
I agree, but you have to give Schoen/Daboll another year (maybe 2 if they draft a quarterback); now if things don't improve next season, then changes would need to be made. If things get better, then they are the right people. I know this is a result oriented business but you can't fire people every 2 year. You have to let it play out.
Schoen/Daboll deserve nothing. They made a poor evaluation of Jones and then backed it up with a awful contract.
They have done nothing to improve the most important position on the field. In fact, they haven't even tried with available free agents and rookies winning ball games as starters on numerous teams.
Nothing.
Quote:
We won more games and scored more points without him.
When he is leading the offense, we barely ever score touchdowns. The last several years prove this. Even successful drives are like epic marches through the desert that typically wind up with a negative play in the red zone that kills it or ends with a field goal attempt.
My opinion is to bench him because he provides no value other than sacrificing his body running into the line of scrimmage for an occasional first down. And hell, we can bring him in for a few plays to do that.
Jones wasn't great last year, but the offensive line was terrible as well. Even Tyrod & Devito was getting sack/pressure under center. This year we have more time of possession and moving the ball: the problem is we not finishing drive. I understand where you are coming from about benching Jones, but we know that's not going to happen. There is alot of games left & until were eliminated or if he gets hurt, Jones will be under center.
And despite the sack/pressure (and millions less in salary) Tyrod and Devito both showed they could throw the ball downfield, pass for TDs and win more games than Jones.
Being eliminated or not this season has zero bearing on the real future of this team.
If Daboll is trying to win games and sneak into the playoffs, he should bench Jones and play DeVito. Jones is an anchor on this offense.
How did Devito play verse the Raiders, Eagles and Saints last year? Tyrod came in vs the Eagles last year in the second half. Everyone talks about the 3 games Devito won, but no one talks about the game vs Raider/Saint/Eagles. And what we have seen from the tape of Lock, he is no better than Jones (he does take more chances to throw deep). I understand where you coming from & you make a point, but Jones is not getting benched.
To us fan, maybe. But for the players and the coach, they don't think its a lost season yet. I agree regarding the injury clause, but he will be the starter as of now.
Beside the Packers, Commanders, & Patriots game, how did Devito look in the other games he played? I think going into this season, the team wanted Jones to start & give him another chance. I think they should had provide competition to Jones as a backup whether if it was Russell Wilson, Sam Darnold, Flacco or someone else.
Now, I have no interest in seeing Lock, regardless of his arm. His entire resume is awful and I think that was somewhat intentional, so that Jones had no competition. Had they re-signed Taylor, a very strong argument could be made for Taylor to start as early as week 1.
But, DeVito is interesting. Do I think he will be a very good NFL QB? Probably not. But, that sliver of doubt is important. And the fact that he is still cheap. He has a shot to still be here next year. In fact, he has the best shot of the 3, right now, to still be here. I'd like to find out what he is, if he can be a reasonable backup, etc. And, that also prevents the Jones injury clause.
If Jones got hurt in-game, I think Lock makes sense simply because he is practicing as QB and has more experience, even if that experience sucks. But, if we want someone to start a game, it should be DeVito. As Eric or John asked on their episode this week, if no QB was announced for this Sunday, who would get a louder ovation if he ran off the bench for the opening series? Not that this should make the decision, but it would almost certainly be DeVito. He at least offers a sliver of hope. More importantly, he offers energy and excitement. Yes, he will make some mistakes and take some sacks. But, he will also take shots downfield.
Quote:
It is certainly not clear that Jones is the best QB on this roster or that he gives the Giants the best chance to win. Last year showed that, and this year has done nothing to disprove this.
If Daboll is trying to win games and sneak into the playoffs, he should bench Jones and play DeVito. Jones is an anchor on this offense.
How did Devito play verse the Raiders, Eagles and Saints last year? Tyrod came in vs the Eagles last year in the second half. Everyone talks about the 3 games Devito won, but no one talks about the game vs Raider/Saint/Eagles.
Maybe we should give DeVito 6 years/60 starts and see if he can beat your expectations?
Quote:
In comment 16651922 Blue The Dog said:
Quote:
We kept Gettleman for 4 years in the name of continuity, and we never once had a winning record in his 4 years. We have had continuity at QB with the 5th longest tenured QB in the league.
Continuity only matters if you have the right people. I am not sure we have the right people.
I agree, but you have to give Schoen/Daboll another year (maybe 2 if they draft a quarterback); now if things don't improve next season, then changes would need to be made. If things get better, then they are the right people. I know this is a result oriented business but you can't fire people every 2 year. You have to let it play out.
The counterargument to that is why would you let two people make a second consequential decision on a QB when they so badly missed on their first decision?
Daboll has a reputation as some sort of QB expert based on the development of Josh Allen, and Josh Allen alone. I’m not sure I agree that provides a ton of evidence about his expertise, or that Allen wouldn’t have developed just as fine without any one of 20 other coaches.
Going into the 2022 season, they didn't pick up his 5ht year option & the draft didn't have any good quarterbacks. Jones played well (was consistent, kept the turnover less, had comeback victories, & won a playoff game). I don't blame them for giving him a contract and we were picking 25th in the 2023 draft. How could we expect the offensive line to play poorly last year? And who would succeed with that offensive line. In thsi 2024 draft, they wanted to trade up with the Patriot and get a quarterback, but it didn't workout. So if we have a losing season and we picking in the top 10, they will have their chance to get their quarterback. And if they do draft a quarterback.
Now, I have no interest in seeing Lock, regardless of his arm. His entire resume is awful and I think that was somewhat intentional, so that Jones had no competition. Had they re-signed Taylor, a very strong argument could be made for Taylor to start as early as week 1.
But, DeVito is interesting. Do I think he will be a very good NFL QB? Probably not. But, that sliver of doubt is important. And the fact that he is still cheap. He has a shot to still be here next year. In fact, he has the best shot of the 3, right now, to still be here. I'd like to find out what he is, if he can be a reasonable backup, etc. And, that also prevents the Jones injury clause.
If Jones got hurt in-game, I think Lock makes sense simply because he is practicing as QB and has more experience, even if that experience sucks. But, if we want someone to start a game, it should be DeVito. As Eric or John asked on their episode this week, if no QB was announced for this Sunday, who would get a louder ovation if he ran off the bench for the opening series? Not that this should make the decision, but it would almost certainly be DeVito. He at least offers a sliver of hope. More importantly, he offers energy and excitement. Yes, he will make some mistakes and take some sacks. But, he will also take shots downfield.
Last year toward the end of the season, having Thomas back & Evan Neal not playing will provide more time for the quarterback to develop plays (including deep throw). I understand where you are coming from putting Devito in, but i don't see that happening until the team is eliminated from the playoffs. I agree that they should had provided competition to Jones this year.
Quote:
In comment 16651964 ThomasG said:
Quote:
We won more games and scored more points without him.
When he is leading the offense, we barely ever score touchdowns. The last several years prove this. Even successful drives are like epic marches through the desert that typically wind up with a negative play in the red zone that kills it or ends with a field goal attempt.
My opinion is to bench him because he provides no value other than sacrificing his body running into the line of scrimmage for an occasional first down. And hell, we can bring him in for a few plays to do that.
Jones wasn't great last year, but the offensive line was terrible as well. Even Tyrod & Devito was getting sack/pressure under center. This year we have more time of possession and moving the ball: the problem is we not finishing drive. I understand where you are coming from about benching Jones, but we know that's not going to happen. There is alot of games left & until were eliminated or if he gets hurt, Jones will be under center.
And despite the sack/pressure (and millions less in salary) Tyrod and Devito both showed they could throw the ball downfield, pass for TDs and win more games than Jones.
Being eliminated or not this season has zero bearing on the real future of this team.
Having Thomas back toward the end of last year & having phillip as your right tackle certainly helps give you more time to throw. I understand where you coming from, i really am, but Daboll is not going to bench Jones, definitely not now. In their mindset, they believe the season is still alive & that Jones give them the best chance.
Quote:
In comment 16651922 Blue The Dog said:
Quote:
We kept Gettleman for 4 years in the name of continuity, and we never once had a winning record in his 4 years. We have had continuity at QB with the 5th longest tenured QB in the league.
Continuity only matters if you have the right people. I am not sure we have the right people.
I agree, but you have to give Schoen/Daboll another year (maybe 2 if they draft a quarterback); now if things don't improve next season, then changes would need to be made. If things get better, then they are the right people. I know this is a result oriented business but you can't fire people every 2 year. You have to let it play out.
Schoen/Daboll deserve nothing. They made a poor evaluation of Jones and then backed it up with a awful contract.
They have done nothing to improve the most important position on the field. In fact, they haven't even tried with available free agents and rookies winning ball games as starters on numerous teams.
Nothing.
Jones had a good 2022 season & I don't blame them for giving him a contract; and we didn't expect the offensive line to be that bad last year & Jones missing games didn't help either (granted he didn't play well). I do agree that the Giants should had provided competition to the quarterback room; Going into this season, I think the Giants wanted Jones to start and give him another chance.
I understand where you are coming from. I don't think John Mara wants to fire Daboll/Schoen this year. Brian Daboll won coach of the year in 2022 since the Giants won more games & went to the playoffs. Granted last year we had injuries and player regress, but the team never quit on Daboll. Schoen was part of the staff that turn the Bills around. It even took time for them to become better. I think this coach/GM duo is better than what we had prior & lets see how this season plays out.
There is no data to back this up
Jones is 3-9 over the last 2 years with 8 TDs and 10 INTs in 12 games
DeVito is 3-3 over last 2 years with 8 TDs & 3 INTs in 6 games
DeVito has won in prime time
DeVito has thrown 3 TDs in a game
DeVito has thrown home TDs
DeVito has won back to back games
DeVito has beaten a playoff bound team
How much worse of a record would we have with #2 or 3 QB?
Or would we have a better record with them?
We continue to have Jones and we continue to get poor results over an extended period of time for the past six years.
That doggie doesn’t hunt….
There is no data to back this up
Jones is 3-9 over the last 2 years with 8 TDs and 10 INTs in 12 games
DeVito is 3-3 over last 2 years with 8 TDs & 3 INTs in 6 games
DeVito has won in prime time
DeVito has thrown 3 TDs in a game
DeVito has thrown home TDs
DeVito has won back to back games
DeVito has beaten a playoff bound team
Devito & Jones have both won 1 primetime game (Commanders), in prior years Jone had games where he threw more than 3 touchdowns in a game including home touchdowns (prior year than 2023 & Commanders, Jets, Lions in 2019, Jones has won back to back games in the past (Bears, Packers, Ravens, Jaguars, 4 games back to back wins), Jones beat the Ravens & Jaguars in 2022 (both playoff teams). Granted he hasn't played well at home this year & last year, the offensive line was terrible & he was getting pressure right away.
How did Devito look in the other games beside the Packers, Patriots, & Commander games? I get we all want a change and maybe that sparks something, but in reality that is not going to happen. Just cause we fans want something, doesn't mean it will happen.
Not trying to back Jones up nor am I saying we shouldn't give these other quarterback a chance at some point of the season, just stating the reality.
Granted the Jets game he was thrown in the game since Tyrod got hurt; and the Raiders game, okay we can say he getting adjusted playing with the 1st team players (didn't have a good game). We lost in a blowout vs the Saints & Devito was holding us back against the 1st Eagles game, which is why we switch quarterback after half time.
Regarding Lock, yes he won vs the Eagles as a Seahawks quarterback last year, but he didn't play well vs the 49ers in the other game he started. How has he played when he was at Denver?
Can we really say that they both are better than Jones? Granted Jones has been inconsistent & hasn't elevated the team or won in big moment most of the time. And I understand making a change and hope we provide a spark to the team; but what happen if we change quarterback and we lose the same way?
In the offseason, we should had brought someone like Sam Darnold, Joe Flacco, or Russell Wilson as the backup to not only start if Jones cant play but to provide competition like Tyrod did. I think going into this season, the Giants wanted Jones to start so he can have another chance with a better cast around him; we just brought in a quarterback to just be the backup, plain and simple.
To the players & the coaches, the season is not over & they believe Jones give the best chance to win. Nothing is going to change until we are eliminated or if Jones gets hurt. Anything can happen down the road, but all we can do as fan is to take it 1 game at a time and hope for the best.
So next year we will have a different qb, hopefully someone from the draft so we can put the money we save from cutting Jones into building the roster.
Can't take the risk of Jones getting hurt. He should be benched now since getting into the playoffs is a long shot and even if we did we are going no where.
This is where Mara should step on and say bench Jones now but he won't.
That is the problem with Mara he wants to get into the playoffs so badly that he does not look at the big picture in regards to building a sustainable winning team.
When, in fact, they are always eliminated by actually just showing up and playing more games.
You want to stave off elimination? Root for more bye weeks.
When, in fact, they are always eliminated by actually just showing up and playing more games.
You want to stave off elimination? Root for more bye weeks.
Yeah I hear ya; when your team is bad & they don't make plays on both side, creating penalty, not finishing drives, turn the ball over, get blown out in the past, & don't play your best in spotlight, they usually don't win & its hard to watch. With the right people, team does get better.
So next year we will have a different qb, hopefully someone from the draft so we can put the money we save from cutting Jones into building the roster.
Can't take the risk of Jones getting hurt. He should be benched now since getting into the playoffs is a long shot and even if we did we are going no where.
This is where Mara should step on and say bench Jones now but he won't.
That is the problem with Mara he wants to get into the playoffs so badly that he does not look at the big picture in regards to building a sustainable winning team.
I agree that even if this team makes it to the playoffs, they not going far (but it is a progress especially how last season went & you never know what can happen then). Jones injury clause is concerning but I don't think he will be bench, at least for now.
Never know what would happen if Jones was on another team; look at Sam Darnold playing well with the Vikings & how Geno smith turn his career around with Seattle.