We're now settling into the familiar pattern with Jones. Outside of 2022, the team starts way underwater to begin the season (either 1-4 or 2-5) and he plays like 25th or 26th best QB in the league.
However, yesterday brought up new concerns for me as to whether the organization will actually move on from him in 2025. I thought posters like Go Terps, BW, and Christian were jumping the gun for thinking that Jones had a good chance to be back, but we're starting to see some early signs of Jones escaping accountability yet again.
Historically, when Jones gets hurt and the backup QB either matches his play (McCoy in 2020) or exceeds it (Taylor and DeVito in 2023), the organization chooses to ignore these results and just provides an excuse for Jones.
However, when the backup comes in and looks worse than Jones (Glennon/From in 2021, Lock in 2024), the organization sees it as validation that Jones isn't the problem.
It's the accountability doom loop, and we're seeing it creep up, from posters complaining about the OL, drops, and playcalling in the game thread, from the beat writers noting how Lock didn't look any better, to the fingers now being pointed at Daboll, to Papa and O'Hara in the post-game wondering why the OFFENSE continues to look so bad at home (ignoring that Taylor and DeVito had no trouble producing TDs at home). I'd pay attention to what Banks says this week and would also watch out for a Vacchiano tweet to see what the org is thinking.
Is Jones gone in 2025? Most likely. But I wouldn't rule out this org scapegoating another regime, not wanting to eat $22 million in dead cap, and an eager GM/head coach combo deciding to simply endure one year of Jones in order to get the job like Schoen/Daboll did in 2022. Then who knows, maybe Jones plays bad and is truly gone or he has another 2022-like season and we're back in extension land.
It almost makes me want Belichick because there's no freaking way he'd want Jones.
offenses like CAR/TEN/OAK look way better than us.
its not just QB talent.
he scapegoated kafka and took away playcalling last year.
well its all daboll now. hes broken, hes lost it.
offenses like CAR/TEN/OAK look way better than us.
its not just QB talent.
he scapegoated kafka and took away playcalling last year.
well its all daboll now. hes broken, hes lost it.
Yeah very weird how the offense always ends up looking broken under multiple coaches when you have a bottom tier QB running it.
-Joe Schoen is in job preservation mode and is going to start blaming Daboll.
-Daboll is going to blame his QBs.
I agree with Bobby Skinner in that Daboll wants to be done with Jones based on that press conference yesterday. But, Daboll knows he's got no one behind him at QB. And he's to blame for that. Per HK, he sat on the couch and nodded when the QB room came up.
Everyone needs to be fired. The only way to eradicate Jones is to fire the GM & HC. Stop doing half measures.
It doesn't have yo be one or the other.
How about they both stink!!!
They'll just blame the fans. See any time Schmeelk or Dottino speaks.
-Joe Schoen is in job preservation mode and is going to start blaming Daboll.
-Daboll is going to blame his QBs.
I agree with Bobby Skinner in that Daboll wants to be done with Jones based on that press conference yesterday. But, Daboll knows he's got no one behind him at QB. And he's to blame for that. Per HK, he sat on the couch and nodded when the QB room came up.
Everyone needs to be fired. The only way to eradicate Jones is to fire the GM & HC. Stop doing half measures.
we have already done that and it changed nothing.
Step one, truly step one is benching Jones NOW showing everyone they have moved off the Jones crazy train.
Then see how things go from there.
We had posters here last night telling us that Wilson was worse than Jones. I mean sure, he threw 3 TDs at home and his team scored 37 points, but he was cooked and not an option here.
The ONLY reason Wilson was not an option is because he was clearly told he would need to do what Lock did - tell the press he is here to be QB #2 and only play if Daniel is hurt. He smartly went to Pittsburgh and good for him realizing that while his best days are behind him, he is still a better QB than Daniel Jones.
-Joe Schoen is in job preservation mode and is going to start blaming Daboll.
-Daboll is going to blame his QBs.
I agree with Bobby Skinner in that Daboll wants to be done with Jones based on that press conference yesterday. But, Daboll knows he's got no one behind him at QB. And he's to blame for that. Per HK, he sat on the couch and nodded when the QB room came up.
Everyone needs to be fired. The only way to eradicate Jones is to fire the GM & HC. Stop doing half measures.
He nodded when the QB room came up? He was clearly not happy with it, the reason he asked was because he was incredulous that they would do this. The QB room is on one person, and it’s not Brian Daboll. Fire everybody, that’s fine, but firing Daboll and keeping Schoen would be the most Giants move ever. If one goes, both should go.
if he doesnt show it, its on him.
-Joe Schoen is in job preservation mode and is going to start blaming Daboll.
-Daboll is going to blame his QBs.
I agree with Bobby Skinner in that Daboll wants to be done with Jones based on that press conference yesterday. But, Daboll knows he's got no one behind him at QB. And he's to blame for that. Per HK, he sat on the couch and nodded when the QB room came up.
Everyone needs to be fired. The only way to eradicate Jones is to fire the GM & HC. Stop doing half measures.
Here's my concern though: they fire the GM and HC, Mara decides that going outside the org burned him, so he hires from within, either Brown, Cowden or Abrams, they get an eager-to-please head coach, and they all collectively decide that the best QBs in the draft aren't available and FA market stinks, and $22 million dead cap is a lot to absorb, plus did you see how bad Lock/DeVito looked? Then they collectively decide to just endure Jones for one more year.
You don't have to believe me. Listen to the players (see Nabers).
offenses like CAR/TEN/OAK look way better than us.
its not just QB talent.
he scapegoated kafka and took away playcalling last year.
well its all daboll now. hes broken, hes lost it.
It could just be, that Philly is just that much of a better team, but people would just rather fire the coach and GM.
The team may have bought a year with the fans by using the "we tried to trade up for Maye but couldn't" talk track, however I don't think they'll be able to sell Jones to the fan base next season, nor would any incoming coach want to be saddled with him.
I'm probably going to be proven wrong, but I just can't see him here next season nor can I see him finishing the season as our starting QB.
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And we all know one of the best ways to address systemic losing is to tell Superbowl winning pro bowl QB Russell Wilson to take a hike because it's Daniel Jones's job.
We had posters here last night telling us that Wilson was worse than Jones. I mean sure, he threw 3 TDs at home and his team scored 37 points, but he was cooked and not an option here.
The ONLY reason Wilson was not an option is because he was clearly told he would need to do what Lock did - tell the press he is here to be QB #2 and only play if Daniel is hurt. He smartly went to Pittsburgh and good for him realizing that while his best days are behind him, he is still a better QB than Daniel Jones.
That thread last night was classic BBI. Concluding that Russell Wilson is cooked after three possessions, on the day that our QB put up zero TDs at home for the SIXTH straight game, only for Wilson to turn it around and play a good game.
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the entire offense is broken beyond repair.
offenses like CAR/TEN/OAK look way better than us.
its not just QB talent.
he scapegoated kafka and took away playcalling last year.
well its all daboll now. hes broken, hes lost it.
It could just be, that Philly is just that much of a better team, but people would just rather fire the coach and GM.
Have you watched any other Eagles games this year? They are dreadful. We were the 'get right' game for them.
if he doesnt show it, its on him.
It won't, because Lock an Devito aren't NFL QBs, and it won't with Jones because he's not even backup caliber at home, where the Giant play 8-9 games every season.
Fire Daboll? Sure, but the main problem with this franchise is Jones as QB1.
More likely now is we get Belichick and we have a QB "room" with 2 of Jimmy G/Bailey Zappe/Jacoby Brissett
It doesn't have yo be one or the other.
How about they both stink!!!
Actually I think the people making excuses for Jones are just on to another excuse, Daboll and the playcalling.
It was the OL
It was the WRs
Well we got them improved, so now its the playcalling.
Lock not looking any better has to do with Lock not being that good and being rusty. People are open, listen to Nabers, listen to people like colin@bgn, or watch the 22 tape. If the QB only checks what can you do. The defenses know if they give him a certain look, then he will check down every time to his trust 5 yd curl. They gameplan for it, which is why every short pass is contested.
You don't have to believe me. Listen to the players (see Nabers).
The problem is we've seen this rot before in 2021 and parts of 2023. The players get mad, but often the org and segments of the fanbase just turn their targets toward the players and coaching staff, and Jones continues to have backers within the org and locker room. We're seeing the "Jones isn't the only problem" narrative from both people who back Jones and people who hate him, and I'm not convinced the org won't see it as a reason to roster Jones again in 2025 rather than eat a $22 million dead cap.
They told Super Bowl winning QB Russell Wilson to take a hike. They're above nothing as far as I'm concerned.
Couple points:
*Chris Bisignano has been reporting on Giants Insider all year as fact "Daniel Jones will not be the Giants QB next year".
*Schoen said on Hard Knocks the contract was essentially a 2-year type prove it deal, and they were looking for DJ to take the next step with better personnel. He clearly hasn't.
Even if these 2 bozos are allowed to stick around (I hope not), they are not going with DJ next year. They will cut him and move on. Zero question.
You don't have to believe me. Listen to the players (see Nabers).
...I'm just not sure what the point of it is. Jones is THE number one problem right now, and he has been. A couple of feel nice wins with DeVito may be the last thing we need --that is EXACTLY why we're in this mess. I don't even want to discuss this team anymore. Get me a freaking QB. That's all.
More likely now is we get Belichick and we have a QB "room" with 2 of Jimmy G/Bailey Zappe/Jacoby Brissett
Somehow worse than Jones.
(1) Jones won't be here next year.
(2) The fans will have some hope that Lock or DeVito might at least produce a marginally functional offense, which could help ticket sales and therefore revenue.
(3) There is no chance that Jones will get hurt and be able to invoke his $23M injury guarantee next March.
I agree with whoever said that Daboll's best chance of saving his job is if Lock or DeVito get a few unexpected wins. Although that would obviously hurt our draft status, it would at least be some proof that Daboll can coach QBs. Jones is simply beyond the ability of any QB coach to help.
Couple points:
*Chris Bisignano has been reporting on Giants Insider all year as fact "Daniel Jones will not be the Giants QB next year".
*Schoen said on Hard Knocks the contract was essentially a 2-year type prove it deal, and they were looking for DJ to take the next step with better personnel. He clearly hasn't.
Even if these 2 bozos are allowed to stick around (I hope not), they are not going with DJ next year. They will cut him and move on. Zero question.
I agree in principal, but what if Schoen doesn't survive? I think Schoen would very likley move on from Jones in an attempt to save his career, but a new GM might just decide to eat 2025 rather than absorb the dead cap. Then Jones is either is on the bench in 2025 or stinks and is gone, or he may pull a whodini act and put up a decent season and who knows from there.
You don't have to believe me. Listen to the players (see Nabers).
To some extent this is true, but again we've seen this in 2021. When the team falls apart, everyone is on the chopping block except Jones.
To some extent this is true, but again we've seen this in 2021. When the team falls apart, everyone is on the chopping block except Jones.
I’ve lost so much respect for Carl. He really has become a total shill.
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"This one was a team loss"
To some extent this is true, but again we've seen this in 2021. When the team falls apart, everyone is on the chopping block except Jones.
I’ve lost so much respect for Carl. He really has become a total shill.
And he follows a familiar pattern that everyone in the org doe, year after year. The team loses a few games where Jones looks bad, and they start to hint that they're getting to the point where they recognize Jones is the problem (ie Banks last week). THen eventually the entire team falls apart and then they pivot to "Jones isn't the only problem here."
But with Andrew Thomas out for the season, this at-best-adequate O-line is now going to be certifiably awful. We are doomed.
But with Andrew Thomas out for the season, this at-best-adequate O-line is now going to be certifiably awful. We are doomed.
Welcome aboard. Unfortunately, I'm skeptical the org will see it your way.
We might get "looks like Schoen also failed to re-build the oline, Jones had no chance after the first six games, let's play out 2025 rather than absorb $22 mmillion."
And spare me the Mara family dramatics/overrides. If the GM/HC can't stand up and say this current QB is our biggest issue then they are the wrong guys.
Anybody that can't say that would be the wrong guy.
Manning isn't coming to the Giants any more than Eli was ever going to play for the Chargers, he won't want to be in his Uncle's shadow. I'd bet $$ on Arch Manning ending up with the LA Rams, it's in the NFL's interest
You can't rule out this line of thinking:
Schoen et all aren't enamored with any of the 2025 college QBs. They don't see any immediate upgrades over Jones. The crop is considered multi-year projects that won't yield early results. In other words, too risky for a high investment.
So, with Jones being relatively cheap vis-a-vis his peers, they run it back and replace Lock.
And they use the loss of Thomas as the major reason Jones went sideways. They suggest Thomas was actually hurt when they played Cincinnati. Both the Cincinnati and Philly were games where Jones produced QBRs < 20.
The draft and offseason are once again used to bring in more reinforcements for Jones. And that's an easy sell for Schoen and Daboll because Mara loves Jones. It's like selling a drug addict crack.
I want to be wrong again, but these jerkoffs actually like Jones.
offenses like CAR/TEN/OAK look way better than us.
its not just QB talent.
he scapegoated kafka and took away playcalling last year.
well its all daboll now. hes broken, hes lost it.
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draft Arch Manning
Manning isn't coming to the Giants any more than Eli was ever going to play for the Chargers, he won't want to be in his Uncle's shadow. I'd bet $$ on Arch Manning ending up with the LA Rams, it's in the NFL's interest
Not to mention, this org has become more of a shit show than the SD Chargers were in 2004. Archie's gong to think twice about letting his grandson play here.
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You can't rule out this line of thinking:
Schoen et all aren't enamored with any of the 2025 college QBs. They don't see any immediate upgrades over Jones. The crop is considered multi-year projects that won't yield early results. In other words, too risky for a high investment.
So, with Jones being relatively cheap vis-a-vis his peers, they run it back and replace Lock.
And they use the loss of Thomas as the major reason Jones went sideways. They suggest Thomas was actually hurt when they played Cincinnati. Both the Cincinnati and Philly were games where Jones produced QBRs < 20.
The draft and offseason are once again used to bring in more reinforcements for Jones. And that's an easy sell for Schoen and Daboll because Mara loves Jones. It's like selling a drug addict crack.
I want to be wrong again, but these jerkoffs actually like Jones.
Jones had a sizeable portion of the Giant fanbase in his corner even going into this year. That isn't the case any longer. MetLife will be boo-ville the minute he steps on the field if they try to run it back again next year.
It doesn't have yo be one or the other.
How about they both stink!!!
I think this is probably incorrect. Specifically, many of the Jones apologists have used Daboll as a DJ excuse, and vice versa.
I think very few - if any - of the posters who have made excuses for DJ are actually the same people who are making excuses for Daboll.
(1) Jones won't be here next year.
(2) The fans will have some hope that Lock or DeVito might at least produce a marginally functional offense, which could help ticket sales and therefore revenue.
(3) There is no chance that Jones will get hurt and be able to invoke his $23M injury guarantee next March.
I agree with whoever said that Daboll's best chance of saving his job is if Lock or DeVito get a few unexpected wins. Although that would obviously hurt our draft status, it would at least be some proof that Daboll can coach QBs. Jones is simply beyond the ability of any QB coach to help.
Mara should ORDER Daboll to bench Jones? I'd be satisfied if he just allowed it. We don't need the performative nonsense of pretending that it's been Daboll's call all along with absolutely no approval necessary from above.
Jones had a sizeable portion of the Giant fanbase in his corner even going into this year. That isn't the case any longer. MetLife will be boo-ville the minute he steps on the field if they try to run it back again next year.
At this point, I don't rule out Jones pulling an Eli and crying after a game. That would spark a wave of sympathy and guarantee a 2025 run-back.
Probably something Team Jones should consider at this point... ;)
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-John Mara has palpitations.
-Joe Schoen is in job preservation mode and is going to start blaming Daboll.
-Daboll is going to blame his QBs.
I agree with Bobby Skinner in that Daboll wants to be done with Jones based on that press conference yesterday. But, Daboll knows he's got no one behind him at QB. And he's to blame for that. Per HK, he sat on the couch and nodded when the QB room came up.
Everyone needs to be fired. The only way to eradicate Jones is to fire the GM & HC. Stop doing half measures.
Here's my concern though: they fire the GM and HC, Mara decides that going outside the org burned him, so he hires from within, either Brown, Cowden or Abrams, they get an eager-to-please head coach, and they all collectively decide that the best QBs in the draft aren't available and FA market stinks, and $22 million dead cap is a lot to absorb, plus did you see how bad Lock/DeVito looked? Then they collectively decide to just endure Jones for one more year.
There's something to that.
Just make Tim McDonnell the GM, let them ride Jones out to the end of his contract, get it all out there so there's no more doubt. Short term misery, but long term, it's not a terrible idea if it gets this team to finally modernize.
Jones is the main problem with the offense, rip off the band-aid and get him out. Then tomorrow the sun will rise on a new day and everything will look much better
And they use the loss of Thomas as the major reason Jones went sideways. They suggest Thomas was actually hurt when they played Cincinnati. Both the Cincinnati and Philly were games where Jones produced QBRs < 20.
"If the Seattle tape wasn't a mirage, and I don't think it was, then we still believe Jones has what it takes to be a franchise QB."
I do think this organization is negatively polarized against the segment of the fanbase that is critical toward them, as well as certain media pundits, and will willingly make stupid decisions in opposition to them. They are clearly annoyed about getting mocked for Jones pick in 2019 and are clinging to 2022 as some of kind grand validation of their vision.
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In comment 16655584 Blue21 said:
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You can't rule out this line of thinking:
Schoen et all aren't enamored with any of the 2025 college QBs. They don't see any immediate upgrades over Jones. The crop is considered multi-year projects that won't yield early results. In other words, too risky for a high investment.
So, with Jones being relatively cheap vis-a-vis his peers, they run it back and replace Lock.
And they use the loss of Thomas as the major reason Jones went sideways. They suggest Thomas was actually hurt when they played Cincinnati. Both the Cincinnati and Philly were games where Jones produced QBRs < 20.
The draft and offseason are once again used to bring in more reinforcements for Jones. And that's an easy sell for Schoen and Daboll because Mara loves Jones. It's like selling a drug addict crack.
I want to be wrong again, but these jerkoffs actually like Jones.
Jones had a sizeable portion of the Giant fanbase in his corner even going into this year. That isn't the case any longer. MetLife will be boo-ville the minute he steps on the field if they try to run it back again next year.
Normally I would agree with you, but all the evidence I see indicates that the Giants organization is mostly resentful toward the fans who dislike Jones.
A primary example of this schmeelk. I listed to a guest appearance he had on Big Blue Banter last offseason, and after talking about the 2023 QB draft class, he pivoted to talking about Jones returning in 2024, and started with the "I know the fans are mad at him" schtick before jumping into excuses de jour for his 2023 play (No Barkley and Thomas, tough schedule, dog eat his homework). What I took from this is he couldn't even objectively admit Jones was bad in 2023, just that they fans were mad at him.
The GM wasn't willing to give up the picks to go up and get a young QB (which I agreed with considering that the rest of the roster is dogwater as well). In my opinion, the really damning decision was to not sign a backup that would have made it a QB competition.
Because they didn't and Jones is who we suspected he was, we have 11 games of basically unwatchable football ahead of us. Hopefully we don't win a couple of meaningless games at the end of the season to screw the draft for ourselves yet again.