Rebuild from the ground up. New front office, head coach, coaching staff, and QB. Everyone not named Dexter and Nabers is on the table for trade in the offseason. 10+ seasons of losing football and no real rebuild, just fresh coats of paints here and there, seems to not be working.
Dexter because his peak is now. If you do a teardown, he'll be on the downside by the time the team is competitive. So you'd have to entertain the thought of trading him.
Nabers sounds insane, right? Well, it's the same situation as Dexter in a way. He'd be up for his huge cap-breaking contract by the time you built a competitive roster. Moreoever, Nabers doesn't translate into wins as we've seen so far.
Thomas might be the only player I wouldn't listen for offers for, and then only because his value is low right now due to the season ending injury.
It isn't just Jones. Go watch the effort from Banks this season. Go back and watch Hard Knocks again - you'll never see a clearer depiction of company-wide incompetence. Consider the fact that their first round pick unknowingly bad mouthed the starting quarterback before he was drafted, and yet they drafted him anyway to play with that quarterback.
I can go on and on. If this were a ship it would sink before it left the harbor.
Strip it down to nothing. There's no baby in the bathwater here. Been that way for years.
The OL, when healthy was fine. Need some depth and and maybe another starter to become a strength. Receivers are good. RBs are fine.
Pass rush, the most important part on D, is good. Rest of the D is ok-ish. Could use some strengthening. Again, this is true of almost every team and is why the draft exists.
Football teams can't be the Process Sixers. There are too many players and it takes too long to acquire and assimilate the talent. Start with no good players and a rookie QB? How's that gonna go?
If Nabers stays on his trajectory, the Giants have 3 All Pro caliber players at important positions. Not every team has that. Some do. Many don't.
In the NBA, trading everyone hoping to land the next mega star makes sense. It does not make sense in a league with 22 starters and 30+ guys who see significant playing time. Especially when you are starting with some talent that is not old.
Start with Mara.
Do not need a complete tear down. Fix the QB position.
One new DL, OLB and ILB who are all VG starters. One new corner and maybe two but at least one new starter. Whatever you call it they will need a lot of good to very good players.
More than a teardown they need someone who believes that good football starts with high quality OL/front 7 play. That was the Giant Way until someone thought he could do better over a decade ago. They still haven't gotten it right.
I think we should try to add good players to the few we have - Dex, Burns, Thomas, Nabers and Phillips (yes I’m already including Dru).
It isn't just Jones. Go watch the effort from Banks this season. Go back and watch Hard Knocks again - you'll never see a clearer depiction of company-wide incompetence. Consider the fact that their first round pick unknowingly bad mouthed the starting quarterback before he was drafted, and yet they drafted him anyway to play with that quarterback.
I can go on and on. If this were a ship it would sink before it left the harbor.
Strip it down to nothing. There's no baby in the bathwater here. Been that way for years.
It would have been a real mistake not to pick the best player on the board because he said in less harsh words what 95 percent of Giants fans have been saying for at least two years. And he was leading the league in receiving after five games despite missing one. He's been getting the ball plenty.
That (not picking Nabers) is the kind of move the Giants have made for more than a decade. They avoid type A personalities like the plague. It seemed Thibs might be the exception, but he's been pretty calm since he was picked.
They need more guys who are ultra confident, hate to lose, and want to punish their opponent. I think that is one reason they have struggled on the O line. They keep picking guys with passive personalities.
Watch good O lines, they try to bury their opponent when run blocking. The only Giant O line who tries to do that rather than just control the other guy is Neal. On one of the tush push TDs you could see one of the Philly linemen on the ground at the bottom of the pile, with a bunch of guys on top of him, continuing to push forward on his hands and knees. He wasn't even blocking anyone. But he knew if he didn't, the guys behind him couldn't move forward. We don't have people giving that kind of effort.
We can't keep letting good players go just because we suck. Honestly, it's part of the reason we keep sucking
I know you can't keep everybody. But imagine our team with Julian Love, Leonard Williams, Xavier McKinney, Saquon, and all the others we've let walk...plus a decent QB
Not sure why fans always wanna "tear it down, trade everybody that's worth something"....then get mad when we're out "talented" every week
QB. yes HC ? (I really don't know)
I know people are emotional after yesterday, but think about what a "teardown" means. New front office, some mid-range free agents that happen to be available next year and a bunch of longshot rookies.
Way too over dramatic after a bad game on Sunday.
Nick Caserio found CJ Stroud.
It looks like both organizations are going to be formidable moving forward.
The compounding effect of finding the QB is enormous. That's the key to football resurrection.
Nick Caserio found CJ Stroud.
It looks like both organizations are going to be formidable moving forward.
The compounding effect of finding the QB is enormous. That's the key to football resurrection.
Peters was the guy I wanted. He had a big say in what went on in San Fran
It isn't just Jones. Go watch the effort from Banks this season. Go back and watch Hard Knocks again - you'll never see a clearer depiction of company-wide incompetence. Consider the fact that their first round pick unknowingly bad mouthed the starting quarterback before he was drafted, and yet they drafted him anyway to play with that quarterback.
I can go on and on. If this were a ship it would sink before it left the harbor.
Strip it down to nothing. There's no baby in the bathwater here. Been that way for years.
You will enjoy our podcast once I get it edited and uploaded.
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I know that there are people that think it's just the quarterback, but it isn't...and I'm saying this as one of the founders of the "Daniel Jones Sucks" bandwagon.
It isn't just Jones. Go watch the effort from Banks this season. Go back and watch Hard Knocks again - you'll never see a clearer depiction of company-wide incompetence. Consider the fact that their first round pick unknowingly bad mouthed the starting quarterback before he was drafted, and yet they drafted him anyway to play with that quarterback.
I can go on and on. If this were a ship it would sink before it left the harbor.
Strip it down to nothing. There's no baby in the bathwater here. Been that way for years.
You will enjoy our podcast once I get it edited and uploaded.
Looking forward to it. You guys are killing it.
Nick Caserio found CJ Stroud.
It looks like both organizations are going to be formidable moving forward.
The compounding effect of finding the QB is enormous. That's the key to football resurrection.
These jokers can't be trusted to find the next guy. The only reason they've got their jobs is Josh Allen.
Nick Caserio found CJ Stroud.
It looks like both organizations are going to be formidable moving forward.
The compounding effect of finding the QB is enormous. That's the key to football resurrection.
"Found" is pretty generous. They both needed QBs. They both drafted consensus best blue chip QB on the board. There are literally 10s of millions of people in the country who would have done the exact same thing. Maybe hundreds of millions.
Nick Caserio found CJ Stroud.
It looks like both organizations are going to be formidable moving forward.
The compounding effect of finding the QB is enormous. That's the key to football resurrection.
And we're probably 5-2 with either of those guys. The QB position here with Jones is such a black hole that it affects everything else. If you're on D, are you playing your ass off in the coming weeks knowing that your QB gives you no shot? Probably not.
The 2022 Texans were 3-13-1. Made the Divisional Round the next year. Drafting Stroud was the biggest reason why. Even lesser players can become good/average if they believe in the team. I don't see how any current Giant players can believe in what we have this year, and it unfortunately starts with DJ.
Mara is an horrible owner. I wish he'd sell, but he never will .
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Adam Peters found Jayden Daniels.
Nick Caserio found CJ Stroud.
It looks like both organizations are going to be formidable moving forward.
The compounding effect of finding the QB is enormous. That's the key to football resurrection.
"Found" is pretty generous. They both needed QBs. They both drafted consensus best blue chip QB on the board. There are literally 10s of millions of people in the country who would have done the exact same thing. Maybe hundreds of millions.
This is true. Those were easy picks.
Now consider the Giants, who are looking at 5-12 going into a pedestrian QB class. I can easily see them drafting Carson Beck (who stinks) in round 1, and then giving him the Daniel Jones scholarship because their jobs will be tied to him.
People are going to treat the next QB like a savior, and he probably isn't going to be.
i dont know how many times we need to see guys like harbough/payton come in and instantly change teams' entire culture before realizing that culture starts/ends with the head coach.
either there is accountability, toughness, and competence from the top down or there isnt.
The OL, when healthy was fine. Need some depth and and maybe another starter to become a strength. Receivers are good. RBs are fine.
Pass rush, the most important part on D, is good. Rest of the D is ok-ish. Could use some strengthening. Again, this is true of almost every team and is why the draft exists.
Football teams can't be the Process Sixers. There are too many players and it takes too long to acquire and assimilate the talent. Start with no good players and a rookie QB? How's that gonna go?
If Nabers stays on his trajectory, the Giants have 3 All Pro caliber players at important positions. Not every team has that. Some do. Many don't.
In the NBA, trading everyone hoping to land the next mega star makes sense. It does not make sense in a league with 22 starters and 30+ guys who see significant playing time. Especially when you are starting with some talent that is not old.
In the Philly blow-out, Hurts passed 4 times in the second half. There are games when the run D is far more important. Giants fans know this, as there is an uncountable number of games when they couldn't stop the run, and get off the field, in the second half.
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In comment 16656715 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Adam Peters found Jayden Daniels.
Nick Caserio found CJ Stroud.
It looks like both organizations are going to be formidable moving forward.
The compounding effect of finding the QB is enormous. That's the key to football resurrection.
"Found" is pretty generous. They both needed QBs. They both drafted consensus best blue chip QB on the board. There are literally 10s of millions of people in the country who would have done the exact same thing. Maybe hundreds of millions.
This is true. Those were easy picks.
Now consider the Giants, who are looking at 5-12 going into a pedestrian QB class. I can easily see them drafting Carson Beck (who stinks) in round 1, and then giving him the Daniel Jones scholarship because their jobs will be tied to him.
People are going to treat the next QB like a savior, and he probably isn't going to be.
I sort of agree with you in principle, but I think you're blowing the magnitude way way out of the water. The idea that the 2024 guy is good and the 2025 guy sucks is just wrong. Nobody in the world can operate with anything close to that level of certainty with that tier of QB prospect. Maybe Penix or JJ has a 30% chance of being a top 10 QB and (pick your 25 guy) has a 20% chance.
Pick your #s, pick your prospects.
But its just a massive overraction to talk about it like that.
Quote:
Adam Peters found Jayden Daniels.
Nick Caserio found CJ Stroud.
It looks like both organizations are going to be formidable moving forward.
The compounding effect of finding the QB is enormous. That's the key to football resurrection.
"Found" is pretty generous. They both needed QBs. They both drafted consensus best blue chip QB on the board. There are literally 10s of millions of people in the country who would have done the exact same thing. Maybe hundreds of millions.
Found was the wrong word.
But I'm going to push back a bit here.
There were a lot of question marks about Stroud and, supposedly, his athleticism and playing in Day's QB-friendly system at talent laden Ohio State.
And Daniels was considered a physical risk based on his body type and his playing style.
So, I give those guys a lot of credit for stepping up and making the picks regardless how it might appear in hindsight. They still took the risk as first time GMs.
Quote:
Adam Peters found Jayden Daniels.
Nick Caserio found CJ Stroud.
It looks like both organizations are going to be formidable moving forward.
The compounding effect of finding the QB is enormous. That's the key to football resurrection.
"Found" is pretty generous. They both needed QBs. They both drafted consensus best blue chip QB on the board. There are literally 10s of millions of people in the country who would have done the exact same thing. Maybe hundreds of millions.
There are 10s of millions of people who would've drafted Evan Neal #7 overall too, but that was a mistake 5 other teams didn't make.
This is great...
Quote:
In comment 16656715 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Adam Peters found Jayden Daniels.
Nick Caserio found CJ Stroud.
It looks like both organizations are going to be formidable moving forward.
The compounding effect of finding the QB is enormous. That's the key to football resurrection.
"Found" is pretty generous. They both needed QBs. They both drafted consensus best blue chip QB on the board. There are literally 10s of millions of people in the country who would have done the exact same thing. Maybe hundreds of millions.
Found was the wrong word.
But I'm going to push back a bit here.
There were a lot of question marks about Stroud and, supposedly, his athleticism and playing in Day's QB-friendly system at talent laden Ohio State.
And Daniels was considered a physical risk based on his body type and his playing style.
So, I give those guys a lot of credit for stepping up and making the picks regardless how it might appear in hindsight. They still took the risk as first time GMs.
Yeah I'm not giving then any credit at all for drafting the board that everyone in tbe country had.
You want to say picking Daniels over Maye? Yeah that's a decision. Looking good so far. But Maye looks decent too. We'll see. If Daniels turns out a lot better then they deserve credit for that.
Stroud? No way. They desperately needed a QB and everyone in the world had Young and Stroud at the top. Stroud fell to them and they took him. Easiest thing in the world. That's like giving the Sonics/Thunder credit for picking Kevin Durant. Now...if Carolina picked Stroud and Houston passed on Young, that would be worth some credit.
I sort of agree with you in principle, but I think you're blowing the magnitude way way out of the water. The idea that the 2024 guy is good and the 2025 guy sucks is just wrong. Nobody in the world can operate with anything close to that level of certainty with that tier of QB prospect. Maybe Penix or JJ has a 30% chance of being a top 10 QB and (pick your 25 guy) has a 20% chance.
Pick your #s, pick your prospects.
But its just a massive overraction to talk about it like that.
There's obviously no guarantee one way or another, but there is definitely a danger that the new guy will get the Daniel Jones scholarship.
I just don't understand trusting these guys based on their body of work here.
Neither of them should be the architect of the next phase. The Giants need a program leader at HC. Not GM, not ownership, not some nebulous executive role.
and Dexter and Nabers are indeed tradeable assets.