and the suffering incurred to re-watch the game. You were beyond fair and (just mho) actually sugar coated the atrocity of the QB situation whereas I think if there are any more nails needed in the DJ's coffin, it would alter the earth's geomagnetic field. Sometimes in data analysis and evaluation, if you have too many data points without experimental control those data points become superfluous and actually contribute to self-generated noise that obscures the signal.
He wants so badly to be a pass-first team, which I believe relates to SY's report that the offense is predictable. This weekend would have been a huge opportunity to establish the running game. Tracy has had two very productive games in a row. You have a new LT and the game was not out of hand in the first quarter. Get the ground game going. Give Josh some confidence on the end. But nope, still trying to bang the square peg in the round hole, and yes I know I beat the analogy to death but it's the truth. He tries to make this team be something it's not. DJ needs to manage the game, not throw it 40 times. He continually doesn't put his team in the best spot to win. You have to work with what you have. I think he falls short which is why its time to go!
on Riley. He got obliterated more than he made plays (as usual), hence the Giants adding a DT. I believe his playing time, as well as Davidson's will decrease.
It’s kinda irrelevant that Jones isn’t turnover it over
that the right decision is to continue to play Jones. And I simply can't get there.
He is simply not getting it done.
I did believe that the Giants had a better chance of winning games with him at QB vs Lock/TDV.
Jones has proven that he simply can't get through his progressions and complete passes downfield.
The evidence is further building that he doesn't have the arm to make the intermediate throws on the occasion that he DOES find the right guy.
At worst, Lock/TDV represent a modest step down, and there's plenty of reasons to thing there are things they will do better.
Now, with the OL missing its very best piece, the injury clause in Jones' contract is no longer the tail wagging the dog. It needs to be front and center in this decision. It's truly malfeasance to leave that as an afterthought.
If they think they're in a bad situation now, buckle up. Jones sustaining a serious injury would be a fucking disaster.
Typically I can at least put logic to decisions even when they're stupid one, but there's something going on with Daboll and the play calling I just can't figure out at all.
Jones stinks, we don't need to beat around this bush, he's not executing, he doesn't make plays when needed etc... On top of this Daboll has seemed to make a very direct comment at quality of his play in each presser. Things like "guys were open, we need to get the ball to them" where he doesn't say Daniel's name, but we all know what he's talking about.
Despite this, he just keeps putting more and more of the game in his hands.
The two together don't make sense at all. Its almost like he's punishing Schoen/Mara for sticking him with Jones, which I don't think is the case, but there's something odd to the behavior.
Time will tell, but I feel like there's something going on our beat reporters haven't touched on or gotten a feel for.
Since we can't execute any explosive plays, we are forced to work our way down the field with long drives dinking, and dunking. The chances of having a negative play or a penalty that puts you behind the chains go way up. We have seen it time and time again. How many illegal man down field penalties have cost us field position this year? It is a recipe for disaster. Good leaders learn from their mistakes and make corrections. Please tell me, in two years how many times have the Giants been hit with "THAT" penalty? How many? When are we going to fix it? Kills drives and kills the team who can't afford mistakes that kill dives. Giants fans are tired of the wash, rinse repeat cycle. I certainly know I am.
My son of 14 years old wanted to be a giant fan. He enjoys watching with me, but he just can't do it anymore. A decade of beatdowns and nothing to cheer for. He told me he has to move on to a team that's fun to watch. End the suffering. I mean I get it. He is absolutely right. I have been a fan for 42 years, as was my father, and my grandfather. Sucks that this is what has happened over the last 10 years to this team. They give no one any hope, season after season.
has drafted 4 Olinemen and signed about a dozen free agents, and when Thomas is out they are well below average. What a colossal failure.
The franchise came as close as you can to admitting they don't know how to evaluate linemen this offseason by not drafting any and following it up by hiring Chris Snee to specialize in scouting the position.
A few years too slow, but at least they're mindful of it.
...he's played about 23 games in his career, Jones over 69, that's three times as much. And we've seen all those games up close and personal. The guy can't produce points.
Again, the pass to Hyatt from Lock had zip and accuracy that DJ can only dream about - I haven't seen a pass like that from DJ ever. Sure he fumbled and looked rusty, he's coming off the bench in a game the Eagles are salavating over to pad their stats at that point.
And I suspect with Lock's mobility he'd make more plays in the passing game and on the run because he'll be willing to take a chance and has much better arm strength.
Playing Jones going forward is a mistake and will cost Daboll is job is my opinion - BUT
I can only surmise that the group of Daboll/JS/Mara have agreed to play Jones until the bye and with no improvement - a change will be made.
This, Jones stinks.
Also I would argue that not even trying to move the ball down the field, instead "always" just checking down (which the defense expects him to do), is a turnover. Jones makes it too easy on the defense.
SY'56
"When it’s not easy for him, he rarely gets it done. When it is easy for him, he sometimes gets it done."
Now I have some verbiage to describe how I feel about DJ's game. Rooted for him early in his career just cause he was the Giants QB, but he really is missing the "it factor".
I'm enjoying the college game more and more! Will be at ND vs Navy this weekend!!
He wants so badly to be a pass-first team, which I believe relates to SY's report that the offense is predictable. This weekend would have been a huge opportunity to establish the running game. Tracy has had two very productive games in a row. You have a new LT and the game was not out of hand in the first quarter. Get the ground game going. Give Josh some confidence on the end. But nope, still trying to bang the square peg in the round hole, and yes I know I beat the analogy to death but it's the truth. He tries to make this team be something it's not. DJ needs to manage the game, not throw it 40 times. He continually doesn't put his team in the best spot to win. You have to work with what you have. I think he falls short which is why its time to go!
Sy'56 and I are on the same page with the play-calling. Very weird, almost 3-to-1 pass-run ratio (worse when game was close).
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I've said it a few times--this team won games in 2022 with a vanilla approach. Run the ball a ton. Designed running/passing from Jones. More running. Easy to scan field/passing designed offense. AND IT WORKED. They scored enough pts to win 9 plus the playoff game. IT wasn't great but the D was even worse and yet, they won.
They couldn't WAIT to get away from that offense. Same with most here. "Not sustainable"--yea, bullshit. It was more than sustainable compared to this garbage. At least they were in games and winning some of them.
They failed to realize what Jones was good at and if they knew, they still tried to make this offense into something it isn't. KNOW your limitations, don't try and turn someone into something he isn't.
The giants out smart themselves year after year after year.
the staff and Schoen literally said they need to "open up the offense"
They should have built off 22 or gotten rid of Jones. INstead they half assed it. Sign Bark long term. Add another RB in the draft with legit talent. Add blocking TEs that can catch a pass once in a while. Add more road graders. Instead they add a fading Waller who doesn't block.
Sy'56 and I are on the same page with the play-calling. Very weird, almost 3-to-1 pass-run ratio (worse when game was close).
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I've said it a few times--this team won games in 2022 with a vanilla approach. Run the ball a ton. Designed running/passing from Jones. More running. Easy to scan field/passing designed offense. AND IT WORKED. They scored enough pts to win 9 plus the playoff game. IT wasn't great but the D was even worse and yet, they won.
They couldn't WAIT to get away from that offense. Same with most here. "Not sustainable"--yea, bullshit. It was more than sustainable compared to this garbage. At least they were in games and winning some of them.
They failed to realize what Jones was good at and if they knew, they still tried to make this offense into something it isn't. KNOW your limitations, don't try and turn someone into something he isn't.
The giants out smart themselves year after year after year.
100%. They know what DJ is. So why come out like you're the Greatest Show on Turf?
However please explain the benefit of playing Jones for another month vs the downside of him possibly getting hurt because of not having AT at tackle and his legs getting him in trouble from taking too many hits?
Thanks again
What jones ia "good at" isnt going to take you anywhere.
Since we can't execute any explosive plays, we are forced to work our way down the field with long drives dinking, and dunking. The chances of having a negative play or a penalty that puts you behind the chains go way up. We have seen it time and time again. How many illegal man down field penalties have cost us field position this year? It is a recipe for disaster. Good leaders learn from their mistakes and make corrections. Please tell me, in two years how many times have the Giants been hit with "THAT" penalty? How many? When are we going to fix it? Kills drives and kills the team who can't afford mistakes that kill dives. Giants fans are tired of the wash, rinse repeat cycle. I certainly know I am.
My son of 14 years old wanted to be a giant fan. He enjoys watching with me, but he just can't do it anymore. A decade of beatdowns and nothing to cheer for. He told me he has to move on to a team that's fun to watch. End the suffering. I mean I get it. He is absolutely right. I have been a fan for 42 years, as was my father, and my grandfather. Sucks that this is what has happened over the last 10 years to this team. They give no one any hope, season after season.
I used to talk weekly to my Dad and my brother about the Giants. Unfortunately, that stopped a few years ago. The Giants organization is an embarrassing disaster.
SY'56
"When it’s not easy for him, he rarely gets it done. When it is easy for him, he sometimes gets it done."
Now I have some verbiage to describe how I feel about DJ's game. Rooted for him early in his career just cause he was the Giants QB, but he really is missing the "it factor".
I'm enjoying the college game more and more! Will be at ND vs Navy this weekend!!
That line stood out to me as well as a perfect summation of Jones' ability, and why he sometimes has good games against terrible defenses. The fast start in 2022 was based solely on making everything easy for Jones. But that isn't sustainable, as we are seeing. If you can make difficult plays, you can't succeed as a QBin the NFL, and Jones has never been able to consistently make difficult plays. Now he is struggling with the easy ones too.
Sy'56 and I are on the same page with the play-calling. Very weird, almost 3-to-1 pass-run ratio (worse when game was close).
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I've said it a few times--this team won games in 2022 with a vanilla approach. Run the ball a ton. Designed running/passing from Jones. More running. Easy to scan field/passing designed offense. AND IT WORKED. They scored enough pts to win 9 plus the playoff game. IT wasn't great but the D was even worse and yet, they won.
They couldn't WAIT to get away from that offense. Same with most here. "Not sustainable"--yea, bullshit. It was more than sustainable compared to this garbage. At least they were in games and winning some of them.
They failed to realize what Jones was good at and if they knew, they still tried to make this offense into something it isn't. KNOW your limitations, don't try and turn someone into something he isn't.
The giants out smart themselves year after year after year.
From Duggan, last October
Quote:
What’s the problem?
Trying to identify the problem with the Giants’ offense is like pulling on a thread. Every issue just reveals a deeper problem. The result is the lowest-scoring offense in the league.
Aside from getting running back Saquon Barkley (high ankle) and left tackle Andrew Thomas (hamstring) back from injury, there aren’t any personnel upgrades coming at this point. So coach Brian Daboll and his staff are likely working around the clock trying to uncover schematic advantages like they provided last season to a less talented offense.
That’s a taller task now, as the Giants had the element of surprise early last season with a new staff. But the smoke and mirrors offense they cobbled together started to get solved by opponents as last season progressed.
Now, it appears that the book is out on the offense. The play-action bootlegs that so frequently set up quarterback Daniel Jones for big runs and easy completions have been blown up. San Francisco’s Nick Bosa nearly dumped Jones for a safety on a bootleg in Week 3 and Seattle’s Mario Edwards got a strip sack after Jones evaded a free rusher on a bootleg on Monday.
Not having Barkley likely makes those fakes less effective, but getting him back won’t solve the offense’s problems. Opponents have been driving hard on the short routes the Giants rely on to mitigate their pass-blocking deficiencies. Contested throws into traffic have resulted in an uptick in turnovers.
Jones has thrown seven interceptions in his last five games, dating back to the Giants’ 38-7 loss to the Eagles in the divisional round. He had five interceptions in the previous 17 games.
The Giants had a recipe that allowed them to keep games close last season. They’d lean on their run game and a conservative passing attack to hang around before making the clutch plays on offense and defense to pull out victories.
They haven’t been able to replicate that formula this season
The 22 offense was figured out by the rest of the league. It was never going to work again, especially after SB left.
You make some solid points. Agree with poster who mention Daboll with the Bills.
Giants just aren't built to be a very good running team though coaching is a big part of it imv. RB production per game of three very good teams: Ravens 140y/g, Eagles 128y/g and WFT 120y/g. Giants RB's average 70y/g with a 3.9 ypc. 2022 7-2 Giants start, Giants RB production was 125y/g.
Detroit has one of the best run games w/o having Goff run.
Sy'56 and I are on the same page with the play-calling. Very weird, almost 3-to-1 pass-run ratio (worse when game was close).
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I've said it a few times--this team won games in 2022 with a vanilla approach. Run the ball a ton. Designed running/passing from Jones. More running. Easy to scan field/passing designed offense. AND IT WORKED. They scored enough pts to win 9 plus the playoff game. IT wasn't great but the D was even worse and yet, they won.
They couldn't WAIT to get away from that offense. Same with most here. "Not sustainable"--yea, bullshit. It was more than sustainable compared to this garbage. At least they were in games and winning some of them.
They failed to realize what Jones was good at and if they knew, they still tried to make this offense into something it isn't. KNOW your limitations, don't try and turn someone into something he isn't.
The giants out smart themselves year after year after year.
How is the RB roster different this year from last year, just wondering...
are 6-0 with Mahomes having one of his worst statistical years (6TD to 8INTs). Good coaches adjust game plans to their opponents, but they also have to adjust it based on the roster and find a way to win with what they have.
In his first year, Daboll seemed to accept the limitations of his QB, OL and WR, but was able to overcome it by emphasizing the running attack and limiting opportunities for Jones to make mistakes. This year the Defense has been keeping games close, but Daboll seems intent on throwing caution to the wind to force the passing attack even when the Defenses are sitting in 2 high safety zones and sitting on routes while Jones stares down his receivers. I don't want Jones to tank a 3rd HC in 6 years, but at some point I think Daboll needs to go back to the 2022 formula and try to win games with what he has rather than force what he wants to happen in an idea offense. Jones was never going to be Josh Allen and the HC needs to accept that fact.
It's designing the training wheels offense for Jones in 2022. He's probably going to get fired, in particular, because he did such a good job coaching on offense in his 1st year.
Going into 22, everything was obvious. They declined the option. The roster was terrible. All we had to do was suck and (maybe) we get a QB out of it. Depends how bad we sucked.
After that, given Maras infatuation with Jones, there was no way to get away from him. But he'd made Jones run an actual NFL offense, then he's unshackled and has a chance to work with a real QB. So it does make some sense that Daboll doesn't want to bend over backwards to prop up Jones again.
The game seemed far worse than reading that review.
Outside of Dex's performance, it was a complete waste of time. The offense is abysmal with Jones at the helm and has zero signs of life. Actually getting worse although assume that is due to Thomas being out.
I can't even fathom how they scored 3 points as I had moved onto the Detroit/Minn game.
I may be done watching NYG games for year unless DeVito goes in.
Especially if that would ensure we could draft a future franchise QB. I’d sell anyone on this team for a QB who could make watching the Giants “watchable” again.
As for Daboll calling so many passes, I remember when Nick Sabin jumped on him for calling too many pass plays at the end of a game. On Sunday he had Ezedeu out there at left tackle — Give me a fucking break with all those passes.
Sy'56 and I are on the same page with the play-calling. Very weird, almost 3-to-1 pass-run ratio (worse when game was close).
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I've said it a few times--this team won games in 2022 with a vanilla approach. Run the ball a ton. Designed running/passing from Jones. More running. Easy to scan field/passing designed offense. AND IT WORKED. They scored enough pts to win 9 plus the playoff game. IT wasn't great but the D was even worse and yet, they won.
They couldn't WAIT to get away from that offense. Same with most here. "Not sustainable"--yea, bullshit. It was more than sustainable compared to this garbage. At least they were in games and winning some of them.
They failed to realize what Jones was good at and if they knew, they still tried to make this offense into something it isn't. KNOW your limitations, don't try and turn someone into something he isn't.
The giants out smart themselves year after year after year.
This is how I felt too. Even during 2022, I felt like Daboll couldn't wait to get away from the RPO offensive style and I think the Indianapolis and Minnesota (both games) had them believing they could be a more explosive offense.
The first series against the Eagles in the playoff game was telling; the coaches had confidence and I recall success on that drive throwing the ball. I think they got too confidence, which resulted in going for it on 4th down. Then reality set in.
The team isn't built for that style of offense against top defenses. I don't think they would have been able to compete against that Eagle team regardless of how they ran their offense, but the RPO style of offense gave us the best chance to be competitive.
It's designing the training wheels offense for Jones in 2022. He's probably going to get fired, in particular, because he did such a good job coaching on offense in his 1st year.
Going into 22, everything was obvious. They declined the option. The roster was terrible. All we had to do was suck and (maybe) we get a QB out of it. Depends how bad we sucked.
After that, given Maras infatuation with Jones, there was no way to get away from him. But he'd made Jones run an actual NFL offense, then he's unshackled and has a chance to work with a real QB. So it does make some sense that Daboll doesn't want to bend over backwards to prop up Jones again.
Sy'56 and I are on the same page with the play-calling. Very weird, almost 3-to-1 pass-run ratio (worse when game was close).
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I've said it a few times--this team won games in 2022 with a vanilla approach. Run the ball a ton. Designed running/passing from Jones. More running. Easy to scan field/passing designed offense. AND IT WORKED. They scored enough pts to win 9 plus the playoff game. IT wasn't great but the D was even worse and yet, they won.
They couldn't WAIT to get away from that offense. Same with most here. "Not sustainable"--yea, bullshit. It was more than sustainable compared to this garbage. At least they were in games and winning some of them.
They failed to realize what Jones was good at and if they knew, they still tried to make this offense into something it isn't. KNOW your limitations, don't try and turn someone into something he isn't.
The giants out smart themselves year after year after year.
The whole point is if Jones cant do more than what he was asked to do in 2022, to move on, because a "simple" offense is easy to defend and worries no defense in this league.
They will win nothing playing like 2022. Go look at that season again. It was fake. They limped into the last 5 games of the season and lucked into favorable matchups against bad teams.
This is not a team trying to figure out what it wants to be. They know what they want to be. They are determining if Jones can be part of it.
Much needed clarity and conciseness as an antidote to the (completely understandable) but stultifying, voluminous (and repetitive, redundant and occasionally repugnant) thoughts presented here on BBI since 4pm Sunday!
That said, everyone's heart is in the right place!
Especially if that would ensure we could draft a future franchise QB. I’d sell anyone on this team for a QB who could make watching the Giants “watchable” again.
As for Daboll calling so many passes, I remember when Nick Sabin jumped on him for calling too many pass plays at the end of a game. On Sunday he had Ezedeu out there at left tackle — Give me a fucking break with all those passes.
probably an unpopular opinion but I would too. They are wasting the prime years of dex and Thomas with Jones at QB. I'd look at a full rebuild if you could get enough.
They will win nothing playing like 2022. Go look at that season again. It was fake. They limped into the last 5 games of the season and lucked into favorable matchups against bad teams.
The irony is certainly lost on members of the fanbase who remind us that the Giants "could" have been 4-1 this season that in 2022 they weren't more than a handful of plays away from starting 2-6 rather than 6-2.
Thanks Sy. Appreciate the analysis. My thought though is we are now
playing for next year. We can't let Jones get hurt. Bench him. We know what Lock is so make him your 3rd stringer. Devito won three games last year. His cockiness, and I mean that in a good way, may give them a spark. Crazy? Probably. But it's crazy we re in this situation again after all these years.
I have to question one thing here Sy and thats the Robinson
not dropping a pass. I deleted the game from my DVR so I can't confirm, but I distinctly remember a bullet DJ threw over the middle to Robinson with 2 defenders on him. It was probably the only accurate pass Jones threw all game but it bounced in and out of his hands. Am I mis-remembering? At the time my son and I reviewed it and he was complaining about Jones and I did until I saw what I THOUGHT was a catchable ball that Wandale dropped. I said DJ sucks but having Wandale and Slayton dropping his rare decent ones doesn't help.
DeVito at least will inject some life into this team
it's not even about wining at this point but giving fans a reason to watch the damn game.
I and probably others have no desire to watch the Giants with Jones at QB. Jones is perhaps the most boring QB I have ever seen play the game.
So DeVito loses... does it matter? At least he may give the fans a story line that will inspire them to watch the game. Maybe DeVito will even complete a pass that travels 20+ yards in the air. That would be exciting.
If we won games with him last year I see no reason why we cannot win a few games with him this year.
However please explain the benefit of playing Jones for another month vs the downside of him possibly getting hurt because of not having AT at tackle and his legs getting him in trouble from taking too many hits?
Thanks again
I think Jones gives NYG the best chance to run a functional offense and see what we truly have in Wan'Dale + Nabers
RE: I have to question one thing here Sy and thats the Robinson
not dropping a pass. I deleted the game from my DVR so I can't confirm, but I distinctly remember a bullet DJ threw over the middle to Robinson with 2 defenders on him. It was probably the only accurate pass Jones threw all game but it bounced in and out of his hands. Am I mis-remembering? At the time my son and I reviewed it and he was complaining about Jones and I did until I saw what I THOUGHT was a catchable ball that Wandale dropped. I said DJ sucks but having Wandale and Slayton dropping his rare decent ones doesn't help.
I watched it a bunch of times. Slay got his hand / arm downward on the ball. For what its worth, nobody in statistical analysis charted a drop there either.
RE: RE: I have to question one thing here Sy and thats the Robinson
not dropping a pass. I deleted the game from my DVR so I can't confirm, but I distinctly remember a bullet DJ threw over the middle to Robinson with 2 defenders on him. It was probably the only accurate pass Jones threw all game but it bounced in and out of his hands. Am I mis-remembering? At the time my son and I reviewed it and he was complaining about Jones and I did until I saw what I THOUGHT was a catchable ball that Wandale dropped. I said DJ sucks but having Wandale and Slayton dropping his rare decent ones doesn't help.
I watched it a bunch of times. Slay got his hand / arm downward on the ball. For what its worth, nobody in statistical analysis charted a drop there either.
Well in the postgame on the radio, Papa pretty much blamed the loss on Robinson for that drop. That's pretty much all he talked about.
RE: RE: RE: I have to question one thing here Sy and thats the Robinson
not dropping a pass. I deleted the game from my DVR so I can't confirm, but I distinctly remember a bullet DJ threw over the middle to Robinson with 2 defenders on him. It was probably the only accurate pass Jones threw all game but it bounced in and out of his hands. Am I mis-remembering? At the time my son and I reviewed it and he was complaining about Jones and I did until I saw what I THOUGHT was a catchable ball that Wandale dropped. I said DJ sucks but having Wandale and Slayton dropping his rare decent ones doesn't help.
I watched it a bunch of times. Slay got his hand / arm downward on the ball. For what its worth, nobody in statistical analysis charted a drop there either.
Well in the postgame on the radio, Papa pretty much blamed the loss on Robinson for that drop. That's pretty much all he talked about.
Not saying your wrong, Dave, just pointing out how disingenuous Papa is, and how he will break his back contorting himself to not say anything negative about Jones, or blame everyone else for his horribleness.
However please explain the benefit of playing Jones for another month vs the downside of him possibly getting hurt because of not having AT at tackle and his legs getting him in trouble from taking too many hits?
Thanks again
I think Jones gives NYG the best chance to run a functional offense and see what we truly have in Wan'Dale + Nabers
I think everyone knows what we have in Nabers and Wandale. What we need now is a QB that can maximize that talent and get the ball to them accurately and on time. Jones is the opposite of what they need
Sy'56 and I are on the same page with the play-calling. Very weird, almost 3-to-1 pass-run ratio (worse when game was close).
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I just said the same in the “Sy on NYG Front Office” thread. Its not a foregone conclusion at all that Jones gives them a better chance to win, DeVito still has upside which can be developed into a good backup or maybe a trade piece, energizes the fanbase and eliminates the injury guarantee risk. I’d go so far as to say its an obvious move at this point.
And to be fair, I didn’t watch a snap of this game. What bothers me most is his offensive approach, I’m not surprised to hear he abandoned the run again. He wants this offense to be multi dimensional and the run/pass ratio seems week-week which I would get if the QB showed a capability of being able to turn it on and off; Jones is anything but that.
Its a damned if you do, damned if you don’t though. I want him to stick with pro style, heavy PA even if the run game isn’t working; if he does this and they average 2 YPC most will say “the run’s not working; switch it up”
Maybe he wouldn’t need to do this with DeVito but I really believe the above approach maximizes the QB talent on the roster.
RE: RE: I have to question one thing here Sy and thats the Robinson
not dropping a pass. I deleted the game from my DVR so I can't confirm, but I distinctly remember a bullet DJ threw over the middle to Robinson with 2 defenders on him. It was probably the only accurate pass Jones threw all game but it bounced in and out of his hands. Am I mis-remembering? At the time my son and I reviewed it and he was complaining about Jones and I did until I saw what I THOUGHT was a catchable ball that Wandale dropped. I said DJ sucks but having Wandale and Slayton dropping his rare decent ones doesn't help.
I watched it a bunch of times. Slay got his hand / arm downward on the ball. For what its worth, nobody in statistical analysis charted a drop there either.
Ok, can't say I saw that obviously. Still not a fan of Wandale. Felt that from the time we picked him. He is a 'luxury' pick to me. And I am not absolving Jones. His accuracy just continues to get worse and worse.
However please explain the benefit of playing Jones for another month vs the downside of him possibly getting hurt because of not having AT at tackle and his legs getting him in trouble from taking too many hits?
Thanks again
I think Jones gives NYG the best chance to run a functional offense and see what we truly have in Wan'Dale + Nabers
It appears Davoli still agrees. Let's hope Jones doesn't get injured.
see the game, but I agree with everything you said. I get to watch maybe...MAYBE 4 Giants games a year if I'm lucky, and I'm tired of watching losing efforts. I think this year's draft class was pretty solid, but it's time to start putting meat on the table. Soup and crackers is getting old.
are 6-0 with Mahomes having one of his worst statistical years (6TD to 8INTs). Good coaches adjust game plans to their opponents, but they also have to adjust it based on the roster and find a way to win with what they have.
In his first year, Daboll seemed to accept the limitations of his QB, OL and WR, but was able to overcome it by emphasizing the running attack and limiting opportunities for Jones to make mistakes. This year the Defense has been keeping games close, but Daboll seems intent on throwing caution to the wind to force the passing attack even when the Defenses are sitting in 2 high safety zones and sitting on routes while Jones stares down his receivers. I don't want Jones to tank a 3rd HC in 6 years, but at some point I think Daboll needs to go back to the 2022 formula and try to win games with what he has rather than force what he wants to happen in an idea offense. Jones was never going to be Josh Allen and the HC needs to accept that fact.
I've been watching the Chiefs a lot the last couple of years, and this year Reid has done a great job. They're doing it with an aging Travis Kelce, no regular receivers to speak of, and a mixed bag running back by committee. They do what they need to to win. We can't say that. It's depressing.
Yes that miss of Slayton wide open by 10 yards is just a microcosm for Jones...
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
He has an injury guarantee.
He is simply not getting it done.
I did believe that the Giants had a better chance of winning games with him at QB vs Lock/TDV.
Jones has proven that he simply can't get through his progressions and complete passes downfield.
The evidence is further building that he doesn't have the arm to make the intermediate throws on the occasion that he DOES find the right guy.
At worst, Lock/TDV represent a modest step down, and there's plenty of reasons to thing there are things they will do better.
Now, with the OL missing its very best piece, the injury clause in Jones' contract is no longer the tail wagging the dog. It needs to be front and center in this decision. It's truly malfeasance to leave that as an afterthought.
If they think they're in a bad situation now, buckle up. Jones sustaining a serious injury would be a fucking disaster.
Typically I can at least put logic to decisions even when they're stupid one, but there's something going on with Daboll and the play calling I just can't figure out at all.
Jones stinks, we don't need to beat around this bush, he's not executing, he doesn't make plays when needed etc... On top of this Daboll has seemed to make a very direct comment at quality of his play in each presser. Things like "guys were open, we need to get the ball to them" where he doesn't say Daniel's name, but we all know what he's talking about.
Despite this, he just keeps putting more and more of the game in his hands.
The two together don't make sense at all. Its almost like he's punishing Schoen/Mara for sticking him with Jones, which I don't think is the case, but there's something odd to the behavior.
Time will tell, but I feel like there's something going on our beat reporters haven't touched on or gotten a feel for.
My son of 14 years old wanted to be a giant fan. He enjoys watching with me, but he just can't do it anymore. A decade of beatdowns and nothing to cheer for. He told me he has to move on to a team that's fun to watch. End the suffering. I mean I get it. He is absolutely right. I have been a fan for 42 years, as was my father, and my grandfather. Sucks that this is what has happened over the last 10 years to this team. They give no one any hope, season after season.
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
Is Jones audibling out of passes?
It only seemed noticeable when they were in 21, QB under C. Is he reacting to the presnap alignment of the defense and calling off runs?
Alternative is Daboll trying prove a point to Mara?
The franchise came as close as you can to admitting they don't know how to evaluate linemen this offseason by not drafting any and following it up by hiring Chris Snee to specialize in scouting the position.
A few years too slow, but at least they're mindful of it.
Great review Sy - no sugar coating, fair objective analysis.
I think AJ Brown did get away with a push off on that TD though.
How about Banks for a dud for not hustling. That is inexcusable.
Again, the pass to Hyatt from Lock had zip and accuracy that DJ can only dream about - I haven't seen a pass like that from DJ ever. Sure he fumbled and looked rusty, he's coming off the bench in a game the Eagles are salavating over to pad their stats at that point.
And I suspect with Lock's mobility he'd make more plays in the passing game and on the run because he'll be willing to take a chance and has much better arm strength.
Playing Jones going forward is a mistake and will cost Daboll is job is my opinion - BUT
I can only surmise that the group of Daboll/JS/Mara have agreed to play Jones until the bye and with no improvement - a change will be made.
This, Jones stinks.
Also I would argue that not even trying to move the ball down the field, instead "always" just checking down (which the defense expects him to do), is a turnover. Jones makes it too easy on the defense.
"When it’s not easy for him, he rarely gets it done. When it is easy for him, he sometimes gets it done."
Now I have some verbiage to describe how I feel about DJ's game. Rooted for him early in his career just cause he was the Giants QB, but he really is missing the "it factor".
I'm enjoying the college game more and more! Will be at ND vs Navy this weekend!!
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
agree on both.
I hope Sy didnt sneeze from blowing dust off these mid-season disaster reviews LOL. The names change but the song remains the same.
BINGO! Good coaches adapt to the personnel.
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I've said it a few times--this team won games in 2022 with a vanilla approach. Run the ball a ton. Designed running/passing from Jones. More running. Easy to scan field/passing designed offense. AND IT WORKED. They scored enough pts to win 9 plus the playoff game. IT wasn't great but the D was even worse and yet, they won.
They couldn't WAIT to get away from that offense. Same with most here. "Not sustainable"--yea, bullshit. It was more than sustainable compared to this garbage. At least they were in games and winning some of them.
They failed to realize what Jones was good at and if they knew, they still tried to make this offense into something it isn't. KNOW your limitations, don't try and turn someone into something he isn't.
The giants out smart themselves year after year after year.
They should have built off 22 or gotten rid of Jones. INstead they half assed it. Sign Bark long term. Add another RB in the draft with legit talent. Add blocking TEs that can catch a pass once in a while. Add more road graders. Instead they add a fading Waller who doesn't block.
See you next season.
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Sy'56 and I are on the same page with the play-calling. Very weird, almost 3-to-1 pass-run ratio (worse when game was close).
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I've said it a few times--this team won games in 2022 with a vanilla approach. Run the ball a ton. Designed running/passing from Jones. More running. Easy to scan field/passing designed offense. AND IT WORKED. They scored enough pts to win 9 plus the playoff game. IT wasn't great but the D was even worse and yet, they won.
They couldn't WAIT to get away from that offense. Same with most here. "Not sustainable"--yea, bullshit. It was more than sustainable compared to this garbage. At least they were in games and winning some of them.
They failed to realize what Jones was good at and if they knew, they still tried to make this offense into something it isn't. KNOW your limitations, don't try and turn someone into something he isn't.
The giants out smart themselves year after year after year.
100%. They know what DJ is. So why come out like you're the Greatest Show on Turf?
Thanks again
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In comment 16657079 Eric from BBI said:
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100%. They know what DJ is. So why come out like you're the Greatest Show on Turf?
Do they though? I don't blame Daboll for stuffing DJ down the Giants organization throat. How ya like them apples.
My son of 14 years old wanted to be a giant fan. He enjoys watching with me, but he just can't do it anymore. A decade of beatdowns and nothing to cheer for. He told me he has to move on to a team that's fun to watch. End the suffering. I mean I get it. He is absolutely right. I have been a fan for 42 years, as was my father, and my grandfather. Sucks that this is what has happened over the last 10 years to this team. They give no one any hope, season after season.
I used to talk weekly to my Dad and my brother about the Giants. Unfortunately, that stopped a few years ago. The Giants organization is an embarrassing disaster.
Not buying it.
I love Dex, and Nabers looks like a star.
But the best part of the Giants is reading Sy’s post-game reviews and pre-draft write ups!
"When it’s not easy for him, he rarely gets it done. When it is easy for him, he sometimes gets it done."
Now I have some verbiage to describe how I feel about DJ's game. Rooted for him early in his career just cause he was the Giants QB, but he really is missing the "it factor".
I'm enjoying the college game more and more! Will be at ND vs Navy this weekend!!
That line stood out to me as well as a perfect summation of Jones' ability, and why he sometimes has good games against terrible defenses. The fast start in 2022 was based solely on making everything easy for Jones. But that isn't sustainable, as we are seeing. If you can make difficult plays, you can't succeed as a QBin the NFL, and Jones has never been able to consistently make difficult plays. Now he is struggling with the easy ones too.
Which is why he should be under center, in a run heavy offense.
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
Also the QB sneaks on 2nd and inches...where is there at least an attempt for a play action long ball?
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Sy'56 and I are on the same page with the play-calling. Very weird, almost 3-to-1 pass-run ratio (worse when game was close).
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I've said it a few times--this team won games in 2022 with a vanilla approach. Run the ball a ton. Designed running/passing from Jones. More running. Easy to scan field/passing designed offense. AND IT WORKED. They scored enough pts to win 9 plus the playoff game. IT wasn't great but the D was even worse and yet, they won.
They couldn't WAIT to get away from that offense. Same with most here. "Not sustainable"--yea, bullshit. It was more than sustainable compared to this garbage. At least they were in games and winning some of them.
They failed to realize what Jones was good at and if they knew, they still tried to make this offense into something it isn't. KNOW your limitations, don't try and turn someone into something he isn't.
The giants out smart themselves year after year after year.
From Duggan, last October
Trying to identify the problem with the Giants’ offense is like pulling on a thread. Every issue just reveals a deeper problem. The result is the lowest-scoring offense in the league.
Aside from getting running back Saquon Barkley (high ankle) and left tackle Andrew Thomas (hamstring) back from injury, there aren’t any personnel upgrades coming at this point. So coach Brian Daboll and his staff are likely working around the clock trying to uncover schematic advantages like they provided last season to a less talented offense.
That’s a taller task now, as the Giants had the element of surprise early last season with a new staff. But the smoke and mirrors offense they cobbled together started to get solved by opponents as last season progressed.
Now, it appears that the book is out on the offense. The play-action bootlegs that so frequently set up quarterback Daniel Jones for big runs and easy completions have been blown up. San Francisco’s Nick Bosa nearly dumped Jones for a safety on a bootleg in Week 3 and Seattle’s Mario Edwards got a strip sack after Jones evaded a free rusher on a bootleg on Monday.
Not having Barkley likely makes those fakes less effective, but getting him back won’t solve the offense’s problems. Opponents have been driving hard on the short routes the Giants rely on to mitigate their pass-blocking deficiencies. Contested throws into traffic have resulted in an uptick in turnovers.
Jones has thrown seven interceptions in his last five games, dating back to the Giants’ 38-7 loss to the Eagles in the divisional round. He had five interceptions in the previous 17 games.
The Giants had a recipe that allowed them to keep games close last season. They’d lean on their run game and a conservative passing attack to hang around before making the clutch plays on offense and defense to pull out victories.
They haven’t been able to replicate that formula this season
The 22 offense was figured out by the rest of the league. It was never going to work again, especially after SB left.
Link - ( New Window )
Giants just aren't built to be a very good running team though coaching is a big part of it imv. RB production per game of three very good teams: Ravens 140y/g, Eagles 128y/g and WFT 120y/g. Giants RB's average 70y/g with a 3.9 ypc. 2022 7-2 Giants start, Giants RB production was 125y/g.
Detroit has one of the best run games w/o having Goff run.
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Sy'56 and I are on the same page with the play-calling. Very weird, almost 3-to-1 pass-run ratio (worse when game was close).
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I've said it a few times--this team won games in 2022 with a vanilla approach. Run the ball a ton. Designed running/passing from Jones. More running. Easy to scan field/passing designed offense. AND IT WORKED. They scored enough pts to win 9 plus the playoff game. IT wasn't great but the D was even worse and yet, they won.
They couldn't WAIT to get away from that offense. Same with most here. "Not sustainable"--yea, bullshit. It was more than sustainable compared to this garbage. At least they were in games and winning some of them.
They failed to realize what Jones was good at and if they knew, they still tried to make this offense into something it isn't. KNOW your limitations, don't try and turn someone into something he isn't.
The giants out smart themselves year after year after year.
How is the RB roster different this year from last year, just wondering...
But, hey, the QB doesn't turn the ball over!
Great, so Gillan will get a lot of opportunities.
In his first year, Daboll seemed to accept the limitations of his QB, OL and WR, but was able to overcome it by emphasizing the running attack and limiting opportunities for Jones to make mistakes. This year the Defense has been keeping games close, but Daboll seems intent on throwing caution to the wind to force the passing attack even when the Defenses are sitting in 2 high safety zones and sitting on routes while Jones stares down his receivers. I don't want Jones to tank a 3rd HC in 6 years, but at some point I think Daboll needs to go back to the 2022 formula and try to win games with what he has rather than force what he wants to happen in an idea offense. Jones was never going to be Josh Allen and the HC needs to accept that fact.
Going into 22, everything was obvious. They declined the option. The roster was terrible. All we had to do was suck and (maybe) we get a QB out of it. Depends how bad we sucked.
After that, given Maras infatuation with Jones, there was no way to get away from him. But he'd made Jones run an actual NFL offense, then he's unshackled and has a chance to work with a real QB. So it does make some sense that Daboll doesn't want to bend over backwards to prop up Jones again.
I can't even fathom how they scored 3 points as I had moved onto the Detroit/Minn game.
I may be done watching NYG games for year unless DeVito goes in.
As for Daboll calling so many passes, I remember when Nick Sabin jumped on him for calling too many pass plays at the end of a game. On Sunday he had Ezedeu out there at left tackle — Give me a fucking break with all those passes.
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Sy'56 and I are on the same page with the play-calling. Very weird, almost 3-to-1 pass-run ratio (worse when game was close).
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I've said it a few times--this team won games in 2022 with a vanilla approach. Run the ball a ton. Designed running/passing from Jones. More running. Easy to scan field/passing designed offense. AND IT WORKED. They scored enough pts to win 9 plus the playoff game. IT wasn't great but the D was even worse and yet, they won.
They couldn't WAIT to get away from that offense. Same with most here. "Not sustainable"--yea, bullshit. It was more than sustainable compared to this garbage. At least they were in games and winning some of them.
They failed to realize what Jones was good at and if they knew, they still tried to make this offense into something it isn't. KNOW your limitations, don't try and turn someone into something he isn't.
The giants out smart themselves year after year after year.
This is how I felt too. Even during 2022, I felt like Daboll couldn't wait to get away from the RPO offensive style and I think the Indianapolis and Minnesota (both games) had them believing they could be a more explosive offense.
The first series against the Eagles in the playoff game was telling; the coaches had confidence and I recall success on that drive throwing the ball. I think they got too confidence, which resulted in going for it on 4th down. Then reality set in.
The team isn't built for that style of offense against top defenses. I don't think they would have been able to compete against that Eagle team regardless of how they ran their offense, but the RPO style of offense gave us the best chance to be competitive.
Going into 22, everything was obvious. They declined the option. The roster was terrible. All we had to do was suck and (maybe) we get a QB out of it. Depends how bad we sucked.
After that, given Maras infatuation with Jones, there was no way to get away from him. But he'd made Jones run an actual NFL offense, then he's unshackled and has a chance to work with a real QB. So it does make some sense that Daboll doesn't want to bend over backwards to prop up Jones again.
This is a good point
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Sy'56 and I are on the same page with the play-calling. Very weird, almost 3-to-1 pass-run ratio (worse when game was close).
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I've said it a few times--this team won games in 2022 with a vanilla approach. Run the ball a ton. Designed running/passing from Jones. More running. Easy to scan field/passing designed offense. AND IT WORKED. They scored enough pts to win 9 plus the playoff game. IT wasn't great but the D was even worse and yet, they won.
They couldn't WAIT to get away from that offense. Same with most here. "Not sustainable"--yea, bullshit. It was more than sustainable compared to this garbage. At least they were in games and winning some of them.
They failed to realize what Jones was good at and if they knew, they still tried to make this offense into something it isn't. KNOW your limitations, don't try and turn someone into something he isn't.
The giants out smart themselves year after year after year.
The whole point is if Jones cant do more than what he was asked to do in 2022, to move on, because a "simple" offense is easy to defend and worries no defense in this league.
They will win nothing playing like 2022. Go look at that season again. It was fake. They limped into the last 5 games of the season and lucked into favorable matchups against bad teams.
This is not a team trying to figure out what it wants to be. They know what they want to be. They are determining if Jones can be part of it.
That said, everyone's heart is in the right place!
As for Daboll calling so many passes, I remember when Nick Sabin jumped on him for calling too many pass plays at the end of a game. On Sunday he had Ezedeu out there at left tackle — Give me a fucking break with all those passes.
probably an unpopular opinion but I would too. They are wasting the prime years of dex and Thomas with Jones at QB. I'd look at a full rebuild if you could get enough.
They will win nothing playing like 2022. Go look at that season again. It was fake. They limped into the last 5 games of the season and lucked into favorable matchups against bad teams.
The irony is certainly lost on members of the fanbase who remind us that the Giants "could" have been 4-1 this season that in 2022 they weren't more than a handful of plays away from starting 2-6 rather than 6-2.
I and probably others have no desire to watch the Giants with Jones at QB. Jones is perhaps the most boring QB I have ever seen play the game.
So DeVito loses... does it matter? At least he may give the fans a story line that will inspire them to watch the game. Maybe DeVito will even complete a pass that travels 20+ yards in the air. That would be exciting.
If we won games with him last year I see no reason why we cannot win a few games with him this year.
Thanks again
I think Jones gives NYG the best chance to run a functional offense and see what we truly have in Wan'Dale + Nabers
I watched it a bunch of times. Slay got his hand / arm downward on the ball. For what its worth, nobody in statistical analysis charted a drop there either.
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not dropping a pass. I deleted the game from my DVR so I can't confirm, but I distinctly remember a bullet DJ threw over the middle to Robinson with 2 defenders on him. It was probably the only accurate pass Jones threw all game but it bounced in and out of his hands. Am I mis-remembering? At the time my son and I reviewed it and he was complaining about Jones and I did until I saw what I THOUGHT was a catchable ball that Wandale dropped. I said DJ sucks but having Wandale and Slayton dropping his rare decent ones doesn't help.
I watched it a bunch of times. Slay got his hand / arm downward on the ball. For what its worth, nobody in statistical analysis charted a drop there either.
Well in the postgame on the radio, Papa pretty much blamed the loss on Robinson for that drop. That's pretty much all he talked about.
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In comment 16657720 Dinger said:
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not dropping a pass. I deleted the game from my DVR so I can't confirm, but I distinctly remember a bullet DJ threw over the middle to Robinson with 2 defenders on him. It was probably the only accurate pass Jones threw all game but it bounced in and out of his hands. Am I mis-remembering? At the time my son and I reviewed it and he was complaining about Jones and I did until I saw what I THOUGHT was a catchable ball that Wandale dropped. I said DJ sucks but having Wandale and Slayton dropping his rare decent ones doesn't help.
I watched it a bunch of times. Slay got his hand / arm downward on the ball. For what its worth, nobody in statistical analysis charted a drop there either.
Well in the postgame on the radio, Papa pretty much blamed the loss on Robinson for that drop. That's pretty much all he talked about.
Not saying your wrong, Dave, just pointing out how disingenuous Papa is, and how he will break his back contorting himself to not say anything negative about Jones, or blame everyone else for his horribleness.
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However please explain the benefit of playing Jones for another month vs the downside of him possibly getting hurt because of not having AT at tackle and his legs getting him in trouble from taking too many hits?
Thanks again
I think Jones gives NYG the best chance to run a functional offense and see what we truly have in Wan'Dale + Nabers
I think everyone knows what we have in Nabers and Wandale. What we need now is a QB that can maximize that talent and get the ball to them accurately and on time. Jones is the opposite of what they need
However, I would move onto DeVito. If you don't think he has potential, why did the team bother to put him on the 53-man roster?
I just said the same in the “Sy on NYG Front Office” thread. Its not a foregone conclusion at all that Jones gives them a better chance to win, DeVito still has upside which can be developed into a good backup or maybe a trade piece, energizes the fanbase and eliminates the injury guarantee risk. I’d go so far as to say its an obvious move at this point.
Its a damned if you do, damned if you don’t though. I want him to stick with pro style, heavy PA even if the run game isn’t working; if he does this and they average 2 YPC most will say “the run’s not working; switch it up”
Maybe he wouldn’t need to do this with DeVito but I really believe the above approach maximizes the QB talent on the roster.
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not dropping a pass. I deleted the game from my DVR so I can't confirm, but I distinctly remember a bullet DJ threw over the middle to Robinson with 2 defenders on him. It was probably the only accurate pass Jones threw all game but it bounced in and out of his hands. Am I mis-remembering? At the time my son and I reviewed it and he was complaining about Jones and I did until I saw what I THOUGHT was a catchable ball that Wandale dropped. I said DJ sucks but having Wandale and Slayton dropping his rare decent ones doesn't help.
I watched it a bunch of times. Slay got his hand / arm downward on the ball. For what its worth, nobody in statistical analysis charted a drop there either.
Ok, can't say I saw that obviously. Still not a fan of Wandale. Felt that from the time we picked him. He is a 'luxury' pick to me. And I am not absolving Jones. His accuracy just continues to get worse and worse.
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However please explain the benefit of playing Jones for another month vs the downside of him possibly getting hurt because of not having AT at tackle and his legs getting him in trouble from taking too many hits?
Thanks again
I think Jones gives NYG the best chance to run a functional offense and see what we truly have in Wan'Dale + Nabers
It appears Davoli still agrees. Let's hope Jones doesn't get injured.
In his first year, Daboll seemed to accept the limitations of his QB, OL and WR, but was able to overcome it by emphasizing the running attack and limiting opportunities for Jones to make mistakes. This year the Defense has been keeping games close, but Daboll seems intent on throwing caution to the wind to force the passing attack even when the Defenses are sitting in 2 high safety zones and sitting on routes while Jones stares down his receivers. I don't want Jones to tank a 3rd HC in 6 years, but at some point I think Daboll needs to go back to the 2022 formula and try to win games with what he has rather than force what he wants to happen in an idea offense. Jones was never going to be Josh Allen and the HC needs to accept that fact.
I've been watching the Chiefs a lot the last couple of years, and this year Reid has done a great job. They're doing it with an aging Travis Kelce, no regular receivers to speak of, and a mixed bag running back by committee. They do what they need to to win. We can't say that. It's depressing.