Knowing they may need wins to keep their jobs?
This is the one thing that is uneasy with me if Mara doesn't give Schoen some assurances he will be back. Everything that is done now should be firmly with an eye on 2025 and beyond. Wins no longer matter, in fact they're probably a detriment. But going forward if wins determine their fate, I'm worried they won't do what's best for the franchise.
I believe we need to gut it and sell of anything of value with the sole purpose of accumulating as much draft capital as possible to:
1) Move up to take the QB if need be.
2) Draft as many young players as possible.
Nothing else should matter from this week forward.
Slayton, Singletary, Okereke, Van Roten, Ojulari, Robinson, Simmons, etc.
And I know this will be unpopular, but I would listen to offers for Dex. He's 26 and will be 28-29 by the time we are ready to compete even in the best case scenario. No more half measures. Gut it. Dex would land at least a first and likely much more. That would go an extremely long way in securing the Qb we truly want. Fan favorites shouldn't matter anymore. Winning should matter.
But I'm sure I wasted my time writing this and we'll trade no one and probably win 6 total games and be picking at 9.
Problem is there are only a couple of guys with trade value, and if Sy is right, not much trade value.
Delusions of winning and being poor at self-scouting have been the root of so much bad thinking here for more than a decade. Schoen does not appear to be the inflection point at properly managing UP and shifting it either.
I would keep Dex, tho.
The Giants won enough games to fall to the sixth spot. They picked a good WR but still have tweedle dumpoff as their QB.
It all goes to the point that Mara is a short-sided, weak strategist and as long as he pulls the strings, this team will need dumb luck to pull out of the cellar.
I don't think we'll trade anyone.
Fuck em. Fuck em all.
I'd do one of those Brock Osweiler deals for Jones. Give up Dex just to have some other team take Jones off the Giants hands.
What a fleece that'd be, huh?
If this team understood the importance of QB, and has the long view, they would be trading away players for picks, and accumulating picks to trade up for the QB they like. They should be trading back in the draft for future picks if they don't like the QBs available to them. I thought they were on that path after trading Leo. But then, instead of using that pick to try to make the godfather offer, they traded for Burns (while giving him a massive contract) and stayed put in the draft and took the WR. Are either of those bad moves in a vacuum? No, but they sure as hell would be in a better spot to fix their main problem (QB) if they had a couple of extra 1sts or 2nds in upcoming draft.
If we are being honest, we are more likely to be buyers than sellers.
Do it today Schoen. I know you’re reading BBI looking for advice, particularly career advice.
Delusions of winning and being poor at self-scouting have been the root of so much bad thinking here for more than a decade. Schoen does not appear to be the inflection point at properly managing UP and shifting it either.
I would keep Dex, tho.
Dexter will be wearing an eagle uniform in 2 years
No one wants Van Roten, Singletary, or Simmons. Van Roten costs nothing and will help keep DJ's injury clause that much safer. Singletary would result in $3M dead money for probably nothing back to cut. Simmons has been benched.
What is wrong with Robinson that you're trying to get rid of him on a rookie deal?
Slayton and Ojulari are the only options and there are no starter level players behind either.
The roster is weak and half of this is just creating more issues that people want to fix with 5/6/7th round picks and those picks one help one iota in moving up in the draft. The cap is good, they don't need to offload anyone to fix it for next year.
This will never be a sound strategy in the NFL.
Then don't get rid of talent on good contracts for nothing.
Tampa Bay?
While I hope there is a liquidation event at 1925 Giants Way, I maintain that Mara holds onto those words very tightly. And he wants the team to keep fighting. Hoping for a turnaround and another magic carpet ride.
Alas, I would say there is a better chance we are buyers by November 5th.
What a friggin excellent point! Wish someone on the inside would beat this into our ownership and front office.
Also, since Schoen did a ton of trading back in the first draft, he's seemed to have reverse stance and not really value draft picks. People talk about the Burns deal last year, is it possible that if we added those 2 picks to the Patriots they would have traded with us and we'd have Maye?
Enough of the Slayton talk. He's not even worth a 7th round pick.
Agree with this 100%. Be willing to trade someone is not the same as shopping them for whatever you can get.
Dex is an amazing player and I would hate to see him go, but his career is not on the same timeline as the Giants being competitive.
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But I'd listen to offers. I've always believed that no one is truly untouchable in a trade, just that some guys should have a price tag beyond what most teams would ever consider. If someone wants him badly enough to massively overpay, I think it would be worth discussing.
Agree with this 100%. Be willing to trade someone is not the same as shopping them for whatever you can get.
Dex is an amazing player and I would hate to see him go, but his career is not on the same timeline as the Giants being competitive.
I agree with that completely. Plus, Dex hasn't moved the needle wins and losses wise so no matter what we must look at the next few years, not the right now.
agree, and wouldn't Dex look great in a Lions uniform. They might give up a lot to get him
That being said, I don't think there is a chance in hell Mara allows Schoen to do it.
They sold last year. They sold in 20-2021 (maybe, I blocked those seasons out from memory) they sold when what's his name was the HC here. They always sell. They always suck.
I don't think the ok to bench Jones is coming until the bye week after the Germany game. That will give them the convenient excuse of having two weeks to get Lock/DeVito ready to start.
They sold last year. They sold in 20-2021 (maybe, I blocked those seasons out from memory) they sold when what's his name was the HC here. They always sell. They always suck.
Other than Leo last year, who else have they sold when their season is over by Halloween? The fact that Saquon and McKinney walked for nothing should tell you that they haven't been true sellers
It's admitting you've made mistakes.
That is never the "Giants Way".
The Giants love to make the cover-up worse than the crime and hang onto players when she should be dealing them just to save face.
Let's' face it, we're stuck with John Mara and his incompetence.
The only players worth a damn are Thomas, Dex and Nabers, and none of them are getting traded
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until they get the green light to bench Daniel. Which i think might be coming soon. My best guess at this point is that if/when we get smoked by Pittsburgh, they get approval to bench Daniel. At that point they can start moving on trades.
I don't think the ok to bench Jones is coming until the bye week after the Germany game. That will give them the convenient excuse of having two weeks to get Lock/DeVito ready to start.
You could be right - we're just guessing here. But Daboll touching the stove by bringing in Lock on Sunday makes me think we might see some movement faster than that. I don't think Daniel has been sat down for performance before. Fan sentiment seems to be approaching unanimous too.
Other than Leo last year, who else have they sold when their season is over by Halloween? The fact that Saquon and McKinney walked for nothing should tell you that they haven't been true sellers
Those are two perfect examples.
But I think this is where the Mara interference was likely in play. I could see Schoen wanting to offload Barkley. But we now know Mara covets popularity. So, it's not hard to conclude he wanted to continue seeing fans wearing #26 jerseys in the stands at JetLife. And resisted Schoen's intentions.
The only piece the Giants have that other teams want is Dex. You want to blow it up - you want to legit start over and get some pieces- that's your only guy that is going to get you any valuable assets in return.
Ain't that the truth. Good call.
What would make you pull the trigger on a Dex trade? 2 1st round picks? 3 1sts?
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this team always sells. I'd rather see guts driving them to add players.
They sold last year. They sold in 20-2021 (maybe, I blocked those seasons out from memory) they sold when what's his name was the HC here. They always sell. They always suck.
Other than Leo last year, who else have they sold when their season is over by Halloween? The fact that Saquon and McKinney walked for nothing should tell you that they haven't been true sellers
McKinney currently slated to net a 4th round comp. Doubt they would have gotten much more at the deadline. They were in talks with both as free agents.
Throwing some wooden chairs into the cold ocean in a vain attempt to save a life will not stop the ship from sinking nor save anyone.
It is clear hypothermia is setting in for those that didn't get in a life boat.
It is clear this ship is going down hard.
They sold last year. They sold in 20-2021 (maybe, I blocked those seasons out from memory) they sold when what's his name was the HC here. They always sell. They always suck.
Maybe we should reach out to Seattle and see if Leonard Williams is available?
Throwing some wooden chairs into the cold ocean in a vain attempt to save a life will not stop the ship from sinking nor save anyone.
It is clear hypothermia is setting in for those that didn't get in a life boat.
It is clear this ship is going down hard.
Very cinematic. I enjoyed it.
Plus, Dex is 360 pounds. Knees, hips and ankles under that much stress don't usually have a long shelf life.
However, I'm not trading Dex just to trade him.
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In comment 16658401 djm said:
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this team always sells. I'd rather see guts driving them to add players.
They sold last year. They sold in 20-2021 (maybe, I blocked those seasons out from memory) they sold when what's his name was the HC here. They always sell. They always suck.
Other than Leo last year, who else have they sold when their season is over by Halloween? The fact that Saquon and McKinney walked for nothing should tell you that they haven't been true sellers
McKinney currently slated to net a 4th round comp. Doubt they would have gotten much more at the deadline. They were in talks with both as free agents.
We don't know if he is going to net that. Additionally, a 4th rounder this year is worth more than a 4th round next year.
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this team always sells. I'd rather see guts driving them to add players.
They sold last year. They sold in 20-2021 (maybe, I blocked those seasons out from memory) they sold when what's his name was the HC here. They always sell. They always suck.
Maybe we should reach out to Seattle and see if Leonard Williams is available?
Excellent counterpoint to the OP - Do the NYG have the REAL balls to be buyers at the deadline???
Been done before...just sayin'
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until they get the green light to bench Daniel. Which i think might be coming soon. My best guess at this point is that if/when we get smoked by Pittsburgh, they get approval to bench Daniel. At that point they can start moving on trades.
I don't think the ok to bench Jones is coming until the bye week after the Germany game. That will give them the convenient excuse of having two weeks to get Lock/DeVito ready to start.
If Jones shits the bed vs. Carolina, there's no way he should be starting from that point on.
As for benching Jones. It's a catch 22. If they do that, they've given up on the season, and that's not in Mara's, Daboll's, or Schoen's DNA. Problem is, if they play him with the compromised, Thomas-less OL, he's gonna get killed anyway.
Either way, Jones isn't likely to finish the season. One way (tanking behind DeVito or Luck) is far better for the future of the franchise. But these guys are too ultra competitive to do it.
The other way, playing Jones till he's inevitably injured, saddles them with his contract on the books next year.
Since they won't bench the guy who gives them the best chance to win, they're stuck on the train track with a great view of the train coming.
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I don't think we'll trade anyone.
At this point, I really think Schoen needs to extend Slayton. He is probably the 2nd best WR on the squad. They need him.
“A camel is a horse designed by a committee.”