Hiya folks,
Season’s over 😞. Let’s concentrate our discussion here for approximately the next 9 to 12 days or so until the World Series is over. Looks like monthly discussion threads will be the best way to go after this thread. I’ll start the next one a day or two after the World Series ends and once November starts. After that, I’ll just start one on the first of each month through approximately the end of March.
This loss in Game 6 against the Dodgers still rubs me raw personally, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see people wanna still talk about that, as well as the NLCS itself, although that sentiment seems to be waning now that a few days have passed since then. When looked upon as whole, the playoffs were fun and successful. Certain things were red flags and others were bright spots. Feel free to post any observations you’ve got, look forward to the future, or simply vent about whatever ails you in Metsland (not much it seems).
We can chit-chat about the World Series too here from our perspective when it starts in two days in Chavez Ravine. Schadenfreude is the word to keep in mind when it comes to that I believe since it’s the Dodgers and Yankees, lol. Let's keep everything on this thread for the sake of organization please, unless something big happens of course. We’ll do our best to try and organize our discussion threads this off-season in an informative way now that the Mets’ season is over. Everyone's input is welcome. Discuss…
I’m going to guess that resigning Pete is a fait accompli at this point, and I’m OK with it, but I do think it would be wiser to let him walk, move Vientos to 1B, and sign someone like Willy Adames to play 3B. I know he’s a SS, but he’s a big guy and an average fielder at best at SS. He’s regarded as a great clubhouse guy, so I think he’d fit really well in this locker room.
Tune in here for any news about it.
X - Mike Mayer @mikemayer22 - 3:36 PM · Oct 21, 2024 · 16.1K Views - ( New Window )
I’m going to guess that resigning Pete is a fait accompli at this point, and I’m OK with it, but I do think it would be wiser to let him walk, move Vientos to 1B, and sign someone like Willy Adames to play 3B. I know he’s a SS, but he’s a big guy and an average fielder at best at SS. He’s regarded as a great clubhouse guy, so I think he’d fit really well in this locker room.
Alonso has nothing to do with Adames imo. Those two and Vientos can hold down 1B, 3B, and DH, with Alonso and Vientos splitting 1B and DH mostly, with Vientos spelling Adames at 3B.
There would be a big of a logjam of IFs with 2B the only open position, with McNeil, Acuna, Mauricio, and Baty. But I see Adames as an option only if Soto doesn't sign with the Mets (which I don't expect him too). McNeil could play some OF, and they could trade 1 or more of those guys for some pitching.
As far as the game 6 loss on Sunday night, I'm with you. However, there was something about watching that game with Nimmo limping around, Manaea seemingly completely gassed, Maton and much of the bullpen on fumes, that it just kind of hit me that these guys took this thing literally as far as they could. And with how some of these seasons end for teams with an abundance of riches (and yes I understand the Mets payroll is technically high, although a lot of that money is not on the roster) there is something really cool about watching a team literally play to and beyond what it realistically should have in a given season.
The World Series hurts because I truly believe the winner of Mets/Dodgers is going to win it all. I do hate the Yankees presence in the series. I have nothing against the Yankees franchise, but the majority of their fans is a different story.
Anyway, curious to hear what Stearns will have to say. Excited about the offseason to come.
As far as the game 6 loss on Sunday night, I'm with you. However, there was something about watching that game with Nimmo limping around, Manaea seemingly completely gassed, Maton and much of the bullpen on fumes, that it just kind of hit me that these guys took this thing literally as far as they could. And with how some of these seasons end for teams with an abundance of riches (and yes I understand the Mets payroll is technically high, although a lot of that money is not on the roster) there is something really cool about watching a team literally play to and beyond what it realistically should have in a given season.
The World Series hurts because I truly believe the winner of Mets/Dodgers is going to win it all. I do hate the Yankees presence in the series. I have nothing against the Yankees franchise, but the majority of their fans is a different story.
Anyway, curious to hear what Stearns will have to say. Excited about the offseason to come.
I hear you man. I also believe that the winner of the NLCS would win the World Series. The best teams in baseball this year were in the National League in my opinion. Any of the Mets, Padres, or Phillies would have won the World Series had they been in it IMO. This was a missed opportunity. This Yankees team is eminently beatable. I'll give them credit for their trade for Chisholm. Superb move for them. Stanton's stepped for them too recently given them an all-important extra dimension offensively, which they'll need on order to keep up with the Dodgers offensively.
Judge is all class. Jazz is cool and fits in like a glove here in NY, especially with that squad. Overall likeable team. A bit banal, but likeable nonetheless. Chisholm was a home run acquisition and gave them a lot of added life. Happy for him personally. Soto is just a freak. Best hitter in baseball, and arguably the best overall player. He's made all the difference for them.
Screw their fans though (the majority, not all).
Pete never get's credit for it, but he's actually become a really solid defensive 1st baseman too. I don't like that he doesn't rip his throws to second, but everything else he does well.
And Vientos is doing fine at 3rd. Keep him there and keep Pete. Not sure what it'll take. I don't think many teams are looking to outbid us for a 1B. Maybe 6 for $150M?
We do have a ton of work to do this offseason, though. I think the Manaea, Quintana, and Severino deals are all up? Winker and Iglesias and Bader are up. All guys that had good years.
The Yankees, Cubs, Nats, D-backs, and Giants.
Anyone else?
@bkfan09
🚨🚨🚨 Mets have just signed 17 Yr old pitcher Darling Perez from the Dominican Republic 🇩🇴. Perez is 17 so he’s technically in the 2024 class , but the Mets might hold him over till January to announce him for the 2025 class
@bkfan09
🚨🚨🚨 Mets have just signed 17 Yr old pitcher Darling Perez from the Dominican Republic 🇩🇴. Perez is 17 so he’s technically in the 2024 class , but the Mets might hold him over till January to announce him for the 2025 class
what a name!
@bkfan09
🚨🚨🚨 Mets have just signed 17 Yr old pitcher Darling Perez from the Dominican Republic 🇩🇴. Perez is 17 so he’s technically in the 2024 class , but the Mets might hold him over till January to announce him for the 2025 class
The Mets had roughly 300,000 left to spend prior to this signing (no clue what he got, but almost certainly not 300,000 or close).
most all writers (including passan below) have been out there reporting the amount of money coming off the books for the mets this offseason. we know how cohen is. alonso just had an excellent first real postseason. they have DH open too. they have lots of young depth coming up at other positions.
there are 2 unique middle of the order bats out there, i just cant see them missing on both. and i think they will be aggressive finalists for both.
The Mets have somewhere in the range of $190 million in salaries coming off the books this winter, including some difficult decisions to make: Alonso, one of the franchise's most popular players, enters free agency after a postseason with four home runs and a .999 OPS. Potentially gone as well are Iglesias, Martinez, Winker and Bader, who all contributed on the field and in the shift in clubhouse culture, and left-hander Sean Manaea, who can opt out of the deal he signed in January.
Without any of those players their payroll currently clocks in around $160 million, and for a roster that needs augmentation more than reimagination.
It's a great place to start. Especially for Stearns, perhaps the best in the business at finding value around the edges to complement a team of stars. But the assumption is also that a team that for three consecutive years has run out a payroll in the $300 million-plus range will remain among the game's highest-spending teams.
Which is fitting timing this winter. Because rarely does a player of Juan Soto's caliber and age reach free agency. The Yankees right fielder will spend his 26th birthday playing in Game 1 of the World Series, and after a champion is crowned, the free agent sweepstakes for his services will begin. As much as the Yankees are favored to re-sign him on a deal of more than $500 million, especially after the run to their first World Series since 2009, Cohen and Stearns understand the rarity of high-floor, high-ceiling position players like Soto and how few will reach free agency over the coming offseasons.
In the winter of 2025, it's Toronto first baseman Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Houston outfielder Kyle Tucker. The season after is relatively barren. Come the 2027 offseason, catchers Adley Rutschman and William Contreras headline the class. This might be the Mets' best opportunity to land a true franchise superstar without having to deplete its farm system.
Why the Mets' 2024 MLB playoff run is start of something big Jeff Passan, ESPN Oct 21, 2024, 01:10 PM ET - ( New Window )
They should move on from Jeff McNeil and Starling Marte
Potential free agents after 2026 season
Catcher: Salvador Perez, Jonah Heim, Alejandro Kirk, Tyler Stephenson, Mitch Garver, Tom Murphy, Ryan Jeffers, Jake Rogers
First base: Yandy Díaz, Rhys Hoskins, Nathaniel Lowe, Ryan Mountcastle, Andrew Vaughn, Seth Brown
Second base: Ozzie Albies (club option), Brandon Lowe, Jonathan India, Jeff McNeil (club option), Nico Hoerner, Gavin Lux, DJ LeMahieu, Mauricio Dubón
Third base: Alec Bohm, Jeimer Candelario (club option), Anthony Rendon, Ramón Urías, Patrick Wisdom, Josh Rojas, Edmundo Sosa
Shortstop: J.P. Crawford, Orlando Arcia
Outfield: Ronald Acuña Jr. (club option), Cody Bellinger, Luis Robert Jr. (club option), Adolis García, Randy Arozarena, George Springer, Nick Castellanos, Jazz Chisholm Jr., Ian Happ, Daulton Varsho, Seiya Suzuki, Lourdes Gurriel Jr. (club option), Victor Robles (club option), Chas McCormick, Taylor Ward, Chris Taylor, Dylan Carlson, Tyrone Taylor, Jake Fraley, Myles Straw (club option)
Designated hitter: Jorge Soler, Eloy Jiménez
They should move on from Jeff McNeil and Starling Marte
agree on marte, final year and hit well i think he's movable if it's a salary swap. id try to swap him for a pitcher like jordan montgomery if there's an opening in the rotation.
mcneil i think still has a lot of versatility that helps them since we dont know which kids are going to be ready and which arent, and when. he can play anywhere. i think you bring back iglesias and make both of them sort of a super subs. that makes it easier to give someone like Acuna a chance. Not to mention bring up jett whenever he's ready.
Potential free agents after 2026 season
Catcher: Salvador Perez, Jonah Heim, Alejandro Kirk, Tyler Stephenson, Mitch Garver, Tom Murphy, Ryan Jeffers, Jake Rogers
First base: Yandy Díaz, Rhys Hoskins, Nathaniel Lowe, Ryan Mountcastle, Andrew Vaughn, Seth Brown
Second base: Ozzie Albies (club option), Brandon Lowe, Jonathan India, Jeff McNeil (club option), Nico Hoerner, Gavin Lux, DJ LeMahieu, Mauricio Dubón
Third base: Alec Bohm, Jeimer Candelario (club option), Anthony Rendon, Ramón Urías, Patrick Wisdom, Josh Rojas, Edmundo Sosa
Shortstop: J.P. Crawford, Orlando Arcia
Outfield: Ronald Acuña Jr. (club option), Cody Bellinger, Luis Robert Jr. (club option), Adolis García, Randy Arozarena, George Springer, Nick Castellanos, Jazz Chisholm Jr., Ian Happ, Daulton Varsho, Seiya Suzuki, Lourdes Gurriel Jr. (club option), Victor Robles (club option), Chas McCormick, Taylor Ward, Chris Taylor, Dylan Carlson, Tyrone Taylor, Jake Fraley, Myles Straw (club option)
Designated hitter: Jorge Soler, Eloy Jiménez
i dont see how the nyy let soto go and if that happens i dont see how the nym let alonso go.
i think soto plays out a lot like yamamoto sweepstakes but chooses yankess with mets setting the price and them needing to match it.
The one caveat here is that such a move could help the Cubs sign Alonso. Flip side, is Bellinger would replace Bader in CF. I don't "love" Bellinger but he's a solid fit as a CF/1B and reasonable worst case would be the Mets being in the Marte situation again after the year aka wanting to move a "bad" Bellinger at 25 million.
1/2 bn+ is guaranteed and i think a deal that starts with a 6 in real value is possible, but id be surprised if it jumps up beyond that.
50m*15 years would be astronomical and the biggest deal ever by almost double, and that "only" gets him to 750m. I think $600m is more in the right range for an o/u.
The one caveat here is that such a move could help the Cubs sign Alonso. Flip side, is Bellinger would replace Bader in CF. I don't "love" Bellinger but he's a solid fit as a CF/1B and reasonable worst case would be the Mets being in the Marte situation again after the year aka wanting to move a "bad" Bellinger at 25 million.
if they miss on soto, id like that as a marte swap. bellinger is a high upside versatile player. much more so than marte at this stage.
im pretty sure alonso negotiation ends up the way of nimmo/diaz in almost any circumstance. the only way i see him leaving is if mets get soto, and the alonso price escalates significantly beyond their comfort zone. i think they are going to value him significantly though relative to any non-soto options.
after what he did last year, i dont see him doing a long term SP FA deal (4 years+).
i think he will bring back at least of manaea/severino then buy low on bounceback guys like montgomery/luzardo/etc.
maybe roll the dice on someone like kikuchi or snell if he can get a higher AAV short term deal if they sit on the market.
SNY @SNYtv David Stearns' End of Season News Conference - Started 6 minutes ago - ( New Window )
all questions so far about future, the canned answers as expected but he did say they arent planning on an extensive search process to add to FO (gm).
@AnthonyDiComo
David Stearns says he's "not eager" to hire a GM underneath him this winter. The Mets won't conduct a full search, but if someone intriguing comes available, Stearns will consider it.
In short, he's pleased with the baseball operations leadership group already in place.
@mikemayer22
David Stearns says the rehab for Ronny Mauricio has gone slower than expected.
Mauricio has not done baseball activities yet.
Laura Albanese
@AlbaneseLaura
"Wink did a great job for us," Stearns said of Winker. "I appreciate the fire...we'll certainly stay in touch."
Laura Albanese
@AlbaneseLaura
"Wink did a great job for us," Stearns said of Winker. "I appreciate the fire...we'll certainly stay in touch."
My NLCS regrets are not starting Peterson in game 1 and not sticking with Winker in games 3 and 4.
Quote:
will be a starter for somebody else.
Laura Albanese
@AlbaneseLaura
"Wink did a great job for us," Stearns said of Winker. "I appreciate the fire...we'll certainly stay in touch."
My NLCS regrets are not starting Peterson in game 1 and not sticking with Winker in games 3 and 4.
EXACTLY the same for me.
@SNYtv
"He's a great Met, I hope we have him back"
David Stearns on Pete Alonso's upcoming free agency:
Pete never get's credit for it, but he's actually become a really solid defensive 1st baseman too. I don't like that he doesn't rip his throws to second, but everything else he does well.
And Vientos is doing fine at 3rd. Keep him there and keep Pete. Not sure what it'll take. I don't think many teams are looking to outbid us for a 1B. Maybe 6 for $150M?
We do have a ton of work to do this offseason, though. I think the Manaea, Quintana, and Severino deals are all up? Winker and Iglesias and Bader are up. All guys that had good years.
I agree with you about Pete's defense, but Vientos is not "fine" at 3B, he's actually pretty bad. -6 OAA and he missed the first 6 weeks.
My concern with Pete is how he ages. Big lumbering guys often take steep declines as they get into their 30's. Like I said, if they resign Pete, I'm fine with it, but I think that money could be used more efficiently.
He’s had a few opportunities with no real success…
I think he needs a change of scenery and some team will want to see if they can get more out of him than the Mets have.
The Mets need starting pitchers…of course every team will say that but really they have only Senga, Peterson and….maybe Butta, and then Sprout and Tidwell, who’ve never thrown a pitch in the majors.
Be great to get Manaea back but he’s going to want a ton of money and at least three years.
Same with Severino (who was good, not great).
Quintana will be 36 in January, so perhaps he’s willing to take one year guaranteed?
I think you're right on Soto. Hal won't be the highest bidder (as per Judge), but will be competitive enough to keep Soto if Soto wants to stay. Your "...after Boras eeks out every last penny out of Hal" is spot on.
@SNYtv
"He's a great Met, I hope we have him back"
David Stearns on Pete Alonso's upcoming free agency:
What do you expect? Him to lay out all his plans?
Quote:
SNY
@SNYtv
"He's a great Met, I hope we have him back"
David Stearns on Pete Alonso's upcoming free agency:
What do you expect? Him to lay out all his plans?
.
DanMetroMan : 1:02 pm : link : reply
The Mets are now calling Stearns presser a 2024 recap, so I'd expect next to nothing today
Quote:
love to be wrong but I expect Soto to stay with the Yankees after Boras eeks out every last penny out of Hal, flirts with the Mets (and other teams), he'll leak that Soto prefers xyz but I fully expect him to be a Yankee and Alonso to remain with the Mets. I'm more curious about what the Mets do in regard to somebody like Burnes. I was told off the record that Stearns "hates" long term deals for SPers, so it's difficult to see the Burnes fit unless he's taking 4-5 years at a higher AAV.
I think you're right on Soto. Hal won't be the highest bidder (as per Judge), but will be competitive enough to keep Soto if Soto wants to stay. Your "...after Boras eeks out every last penny out of Hal" is spot on.
Boras and Heyman are probably already crafting their "Soto prefers Queens to the Bronx?" piece as we speak lol
That's a lot of mouths to feed. How high is Hal willing to go? I seriously doubt Soto would agree to the Ohtani contract, with $2M payouts over the next 10 years. 10/$700M is a big nut to swallow, and I doubt Soto will sign for a penny less.
I wouldn't count Uncle Steve out.
That's a lot of mouths to feed. How high is Hal willing to go? I seriously doubt Soto would agree to the Ohtani contract, with $2M payouts over the next 10 years. 10/$700M is a big nut to swallow, and I doubt Soto will sign for a penny less.
I wouldn't count Uncle Steve out.
From your lips to God's ears. Soto is a player I would not be outbid on if I'm Cohen. He may choose to stay with the Yankees or go elsewhere, but it better not be because the Mets were outbid
That's a lot of mouths to feed. How high is Hal willing to go? I seriously doubt Soto would agree to the Ohtani contract, with $2M payouts over the next 10 years. 10/$700M is a big nut to swallow, and I doubt Soto will sign for a penny less.
I wouldn't count Uncle Steve out.
That's exactly why the Yanks are in a great position to sign Soto. And they likely will. They don't have a lot of financial weight right now. Yanks will pay their elite every day players and pitchers (Judge, Soto, Cole and Rodon) and fill out the rest of the roster with some cheaper or cost controlled players.
I give the Mets a small shot at Soto but odds are he's re-signed by the Yanks
I suspect the same will happen with Soto. He either accepts less to stay with the Yankees or Hal matches whatever Cohen offers and Soto does not give Cohen a chance to up the offer.
Because I really don't think Cohen will be outbid (willingly) on anyone if he truly is 100% in on a certain player.
If all goes well, Dedniel Núñez (elbow) could throw off a mound by the middle of November, which would mean a relatively straightforward offseason for the reliever.
Ronny Mauricio (knee) still hasn’t started baseball activities since undergoing surgery for a torn ACL in the first week of January. Stearns acknowledged that Mauricio’s recovery has “definitely gone a lot slower than we expected,” and that the infielder needs to get some time in on the field before the Mets have a better sense of what he can be for them in 2025."
With a leader like Lindor and Nimmo the Mets are set
Alvarez. Vientios. Mauricio. Baty. Williams. Gilbert. Acuna. Future is bright
Go out and get a real ACE
And continue to build the bullpen
Ohtani was entering his age 30, so he was 4 years older.
simply add 4 more years to that contract and it's 14 years $644m before any manipulations or creative accounting. which unlike ohtani, he/boras almost certainly don't want.
Ohtani obviously also pitches, but off a second TJS i think that only drove a smaller portion of his expected value relative to his offensive value the next 10 years.
Soto is the better hitter and a younger player with more prime years, so i think breaking the record for AAV and pushing towards $50m per year is possible. If the mets can do anything to make the NYY more uncomfortable, thats what they can do. increase the CBT AAV which could also push the NYY farther into luxury tax with Cole/Stanton/Judge already under contract at big $.
How many years and how much he gets guaranteed in total will be up to the market. i personally dont see how the yankees draw a line at year 11 or 12 or 13 given how invested in him they are. but never say never. cohen/stearns should and will certainly push them as uncomfortable as possible.
through 2027 that's $158.5 lux tax without Soto, $208.5m with him at $50m for just 7 players
through 2029 that's $125m lux tax without Soto, $175m with him at $50m for just 5 players
remember they have tried to avoid repeater taxes and only this year for the first time gone into the cohen tax. if they are starting at 208.5m over 7 players for the next 3 seasons that is going to ensure a pretty substantial tax bill with repeater taxes and cohen tax level.
not saying they can't do that, but just like they bowed out with yamamoto, cohen can push the price to somewhere uncomfortable. i think stearns may bow out on cohens price before the yankees this time because soto is so important to them.
I don’t understand what you’re saying here. Stearns works for Cohen - how does Cohen’s price make him bow out?
Quote:
i think stearns may bow out on cohens price before the yankees this time because soto is so important to them.
I don’t understand what you’re saying here. Stearns works for Cohen - how does Cohen’s price make him bow out?
i think last offseason cohen would have spent whatever stearns wanted on whomever (as he was willing with yamamoto) but stearns chose to not give out any deals longer than 1 year. i think he has more discipline spending the money than cohen's willingness to spend.
Link - ( New Window )
The thread after this one would start a day or two after the end of the World Series or the start of November, whichever comes second. We can have that run until the end of November and have what's ultimately almost a month long thread.
After that, we can just start a monthly Mets offseason discussion thread exactly on the 1st of each month, beginning in December, for each month after that through March. Each thread would be a month long, but we can also start special separate threads for any big signings/big news if we like or if the occasion calls for it (i.e., a Juan Soto signing!).
The point is to just keep things as organized as possible. This way we can see What Dan and Eric post, as well as any other info that comes along as the off-season progresses until Opening Day on March 27th.
In summary:
2) "Mets offseason discussion thread for November" until the last day of November.
3) "Mets offseason discussion thread for December" starting on the first of that month until the end of that month.
4) "Mets offseason discussion thread for January" starting on the first of that month until the end of that month.
5) "Mets offseason discussion thread for February" starting on the first of that month until the end of that month. Spring training will begin then with the first game taking place on February 22nd. I won't do Spring training game threads. We can talk about the games there though if people would like to.
and finally
6) "Mets offseason discussion thread for March" starting on the first of that month until the end of that month. The regular season will kick off on March 27th in Houston. We can use that thread to talk about offseason, spring training, add Minor League stuff.
What do you guys think? As stated above, we can always do a special thread for any big news (i.e., Pete Alonso and/or Sean Manaea re-signing with the Mets, Corbin Burnes signing with the Mets, Tanner Scott signing with the Mets, etc.).
@francysromeroFR
Cuban left-hander Naikel Cruz (25) has drawn interest from six MLB teams, per sources.
Cruz has a 94-95 mph fastball and elite curve with top spin rate. He was a member of Cuba U-23 and made the WBC roster.
He is expected to sign as a professional (25 years and 6 seasons).
@mariamb18
Mets are holding a Fan Fest on January 25th. It’s announced in an email from Steve and Alex Cohen.
With the offseason officially underway for the Mets after an incredible 2024 campaign, the team looks forward to big changes coming and we talk about everything you need to know from David Stearns’ press conference. We talk about all the internal options the Mets currently have between the minor leagues, guys coming back from injuries and reminders of key players still under contract. Francisco Lindor performing well over contract value, Mark Vientos emerging as a star, Francisco Alvarez coming into form and then pieces in the minor league’s like Brandon Sproat, Blade Tidwell, Ryan Clifford and more.
Are The Mets Setting Up To Be a POWERHOUSE In 2025?? | Ep. 103 | Meet at the Apple - ( New Window )